Any advice on a feed aggressive kicker??
dead...@hotmail.com
not growing enough to suit her owner (of course she grew 8 inches
after we got her last month, literally.) Well, the only problem we
have with her is that she is aggresive with her feed. She is stalled
at night and some days and has been for a month now. She has adjusted
well to her routine and settled right in like she was born there. But
she kicks if you try to mess with her while she's eating. She'll start
out cow kicking but if you push her buttons she gets serious. She'll
tolerate her mane and shoulders being brushed but if you try to pick
up her feet or brush to far back on her she'll start. And only while
feeding. Otherwise besides being a sheltered two year old into
everything and a short attention span she is merely pushy and not even
that so much anymore now that she's learning who's boss. She has never
been starved, has always been dominant in her pasture, and apparently
has been doing this for a while now that we ask the former owner.
We've tried coming at her, she just keeps going. Smacking her doesn't
help, 15 minutes whacking her when she kicked didn't stop it. She
stopped when she was done eating. She always gets super excited at
feed times and causes a commotion in her stall but she's being fed
enough and getting hay plus turnout most days if able. Any ideas?
Deadra, Doll, & Sassy
John Hasler
> Any ideas?
Don't mess with her while she's eating. And send her to a trainer soonest.
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
jo...@dhh.gt.org Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
cindi
> She always gets super excited at
> feed times and causes a commotion in her stall but she's being fed
> enough and getting hay plus turnout most days if able. Any ideas?
>
> Deadra, Doll, & Sassy
More turnout - 24/7 would be best. More hay - free choice grass hay
would be best. Ulcer treatment - very common cause of feed related
issues. Break any hard feed she gets into double the normal number of
meals - if she gets two now, make it four. Then just leave her alone
while she's eating. Increase her groundwork training in between the
meals so she builds more respect for you - the Parelli program is
great. Whether you like him or not his program is full of ideas and
plans and works in a stepwise fashion so you never run out of things
to do and so you can keep track of where you've been and where you're
headed and your progress.
After a month or two of this you can start to work on her aggression
over her feed, if she still has it. If you can work thru Parelli
level 1 and begin 2 in this period you won't need to ask here what to
do about it. :-)
Hungry horses are not happy horses. They are meant to graze almost
constantly throughout the day and night, and meal feeding as well as
stall confinement can make them pretty nasty creatures.
good luck
cindi
Jill
> The 2 yr old out of my older mare was recently given back to us after
> not growing enough to suit her owner (of course she grew 8 inches
> after we got her last month, literally.) Well, the only problem we
> have with her is that she is aggresive with her feed.
> She has never
> been starved,
are you sure?
It sounds like she may have been clinically underfed, hence her particularly
bad manners at this time. There are lots of causes of this.
For the owners to have returned a two year old for undergrowth shows a
serious lack of horse knowledge so give food but not enough of the right
food at the right time might not be so unexpected.
Can she not get put out in a big field with other horses, be fed ad lib good
roughage / herbage, and lots of little split feeds for the concentrates she
needs, if she needs them?
Don't faff with her in these little feeds but make all other "work" - ie
human - horse interactions much more carefully monitored.
If you have a well brought up youngster then you can afford to relax the
'rules'
You don't -- and her bad manners is a much more likely reason for her return
to you.
You have to undo what they have done, and it needs to be without the
distraction of food.
good luck
If you can give folks here a few more details of type / breed etc then they
can help you take this situation forward more effectively .
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
compton...@gmail.com
Here is what I would do. Either dump the feed and don't touch her or
look at her or do this.
Halter her with your choice if corrective halter, (stud chain under or
over, knotts on the nose etc). Have a safe but secure hold on the lead
with direct contact, put the feed into the bucket. Allow her to eat.
Keep the tension on the lead begin to brush her neck. As you work
backwards on her body grooming her (or just touching her with your
hand) keeping in mind your position and safety at all times glance
back and forth between ears and her hindquarters, the minute you see a
change in attitude from the ears or a tensing of the muscles like a
kick is coming from the hind end (or even a nasty type of tail swish)
pull her head out of the bucket back her several steps make her stand
and brush/touch/rub the area you wish to groom. In addition to the
above I use a verbal growl the second I see the negative reaction from
the horse.
When you feel she realizes that she must stand there until YOU allow
her to continue eating lead her back to the bucket and repeat. When
you are done with the lesson for the day lead her away from the bucket
turn her so she is facing away from it and you are in a safe position
and take her halter off allowing her to return to her food OR Before
your turn her loose remove the bucket/feed from her stall/area,
carefully turn her loose then return her food in the normal manner in
which you feed her.
You might also work on allowing her (haltered) to walk up take a bite
of of food and make her back/turn/be led away. Then repeat. All of my
horses will raise their heads out of their buckets while eating for a
halter to be put on and will be led away from their grain if need be
(like if it's their turn to be done when the farrier is there).
She may be one that simply needs to be haltered when messed with at
feeding time. But she must understand that the human is in charge and
may take her away from the food or the food away from her at any time.
Playing the the she kicks at you, you hit her game is not a good thing
to do. When in doubt always regain complete control of the situation
and start over slowly.
Dana Compton
>
> - Show quoted text -
This post was from me... I didn't realize hubby had signed in on my
computer
Dana (Tally's Mommy)
dead...@hotmail.com
standardbred x paint but leans more towards a standardbred type. She's
a smart animal, picks up on everything if you can get her attention so
the lead rope and haltering her might work. We have been going back to
the former owner for more info and she wasn't being fed right at all.
One big feeding a day of grain and nasty hay, no pasture left where
she was. No schedule of feed time somedays she may not have been fed
at all. Also no human or horse interaction since he got her at one
year old. Now I know why my perfectly mannered yearling is a 2 yr old
beast. If I feed her in a group she just runs the rest of the horses
out of thier feed. Haven't found a horse yet that will stand up to the
snot. And where I am now the dam is the only one I can put her out
with. I board at a harness racing stable and turn out horses in their
individual paddocks. Too expensive to risk. Will she settle down more
as she matures and realizes she's getting fed regularly and enough?
She's been with us a month so far and no difference. If there's a
chance she'll settle with time I can give her the time and work more
with her feed problem as she realizes this. I would like to sell her
in the spring as a mostly finished three year old so we have several
months yet.
Thannk, Deadra, Doll, & Sassy
Joyleen E. Seymour
I had a nice TB mare I sent out on a lease who came back starved and
food aggressive. She never got over it. She had been a very sweet
mare, good natured and friendly. She got to the point where she was
actually kicking all the time when stalled, and would even kick the
fence in turnout.
Jennifer Meyer-Mahoney
<dead...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:6aec035d-79ac-4612...@k37g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
> Now I know why my perfectly mannered yearling is a 2 yr old
> beast. If I feed her in a group she just runs the rest of the horses
> out of thier feed. Haven't found a horse yet that will stand up to the
> snot. And where I am now the dam is the only one I can put her out
> with. I board at a harness racing stable and turn out horses in their
> individual paddocks. Too expensive to risk. Will she settle down more
> as she matures and realizes she's getting fed regularly and enough?
> She's been with us a month so far and no difference. If there's a
> chance she'll settle with time I can give her the time and work more
> with her feed problem as she realizes this. I would like to sell her
> in the spring as a mostly finished three year old so we have several
> months yet.
>
> Thannk, Deadra, Doll, & Sassy
Remember that a 2 year old is an adolescent who like a teenage kid is
testing her boundaries. You need to set those boundaries now and firmly
because as she feels better and starts growing to catch up from poor
nutrition as a yearling she will get pushier. She needs alot of attention
right now, lots of ground work and maybe even learn to drive since you have
the right resources to do that. She isn't hopeless, she's just a typical
bratty 2 year old. In spite of all the hours and all the handling I put
into weanlings and yearlings all of mine go through an adolescent stage at 2
where they act like they forgot all the rules and have to be reminded
strongly about staying out of my space and boys often have to relearn the no
teeth on people rule.
Jennifer
Catja Pafort
> The 2 yr old out of my older mare was recently given back to us after
> not growing enough to suit her owner (of course she grew 8 inches
> after we got her last month, literally.)
That sounds like a horse who was not given enough groceries.
> Well, the only problem we
> have with her is that she is aggresive with her feed. She is stalled
> at night and some days and has been for a month now.
If you want her to stay sound into old age, turn her out a lot more.
She's too young to be worked - especially if she's going through a major
growth spurt - so get her equine company and as much turnout as you can,
*at least* all day every day. You'll find that a lot of bad behaviours
will go away.
> She has adjusted
> well to her routine and settled right in like she was born there. But
> she kicks if you try to mess with her while she's eating. She'll start
> out cow kicking but if you push her buttons she gets serious.
Don't push her buttons, then. In a fight with a youngster, you can only
lose. Don't tackle this head on; set yourself up for success, and do it
in smaller steps.
Most horses that are feed agressive are not getting fed enough. This is
a very simple observation, and it might take a couple of years for a
horse to *stop* feeling they're going to be shortchanged any moment now,
but feeding free choice hay will go a long way towards convincing her
that there's no reason to stress over food - there's always enough.
> She'll
> tolerate her mane and shoulders being brushed but if you try to pick
> up her feet or brush to far back on her she'll start. And only while
> feeding.
In that case, I'd just hang out with her for the moment. Be there - make
sure she knows she can't drive you away from the food - but be
undemanding.
And really make sure she gets enough food. If you feed her enough hay,
she should not need much concentrate.
> Otherwise besides being a sheltered two year old into
> everything and a short attention span she is merely pushy and not even
> that so much anymore now that she's learning who's boss. She has never
> been starved,
Yet she acts like a horse that isn't getting enough food. Some horses
improve vastly when their nutritional needs are met - it might be as
simple as getting the right vitamin or mineral supplement.
> has always been dominant in her pasture, and apparently
> has been doing this for a while now that we ask the former owner.
> We've tried coming at her, she just keeps going. Smacking her doesn't
> help, 15 minutes whacking her when she kicked didn't stop it.
If you think that hitting a two-year old not just once or twice when
they overstep the mark, but continously far longer than they can
concentrate, and that this will teach her anything other than that
humans cannot be trusted and that she needs to defend herself against
you, you *really* need a trainer to step in.
If you get into this fight with that attitude, you'll lose.
> She
> stopped when she was done eating. She always gets super excited at
> feed times and causes a commotion in her stall but she's being fed
> enough and getting hay plus turnout most days if able. Any ideas?
A well-fed horse does not get exited or agressive at meal times. Hay
'most days' is utterly unacceptable, so is turnout 'most days.' You're
dealing with a home-made problem, and you have no right to hit her for
the problems you're creating.
Catja
--
writing blog @ http://beyond-elechan.livejournal.com
JC Dill
> <dead...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> has always been dominant in her pasture, and apparently
>> has been doing this for a while now that we ask the former owner.
>> We've tried coming at her, she just keeps going. Smacking her doesn't
>> help, 15 minutes whacking her when she kicked didn't stop it.
>
> If you think that hitting a two-year old not just once or twice when
> they overstep the mark, but continously far longer than they can
> concentrate, and that this will teach her anything other than that
> humans cannot be trusted and that she needs to defend herself against
> you, you *really* need a trainer to step in.
>
> If you get into this fight with that attitude, you'll lose.
Bingo.
You lose especially big when you pick this fight and then don't win it
(she keeps kicking, you give up). This was a really dumb fight to
start, and you made your problem a lot worse by this action.
jc
John Hasler
> The 2 yr old out of my older mare was recently given back to us after
> not growing enough to suit her owner (of course she grew 8 inches
> after we got her last month, literally.)
Catja writes:
> That sounds like a horse who was not given enough groceries.
Sounds like an ordinary two-year-old to me. Growing in spurts is normal.
deadra_85 wrote:
> She is stalled at night and some days and has been for a month now
Get her outside 24/7 with a herd. Try to arrange to the herd to include a
dominant mare.
John Hasler
> has always been dominant in her pasture...
Put her out in a herd containing a _very_ dominant mare.
> ...and apparently has been doing this for a while now that we ask the
> former owner. We've tried coming at her...
A mistake.
> Smacking her doesn't help, 15 minutes whacking her when she kicked didn't
> stop it.
Another, more serious mistake. Take her away from the food when she
kicks. Better yet, send her to a competent trainer. She's clearly too
much for you.
Ocean of Nuance
> deadra wrote:
>> has always been dominant in her pasture...
>
> Put her out in a herd containing a _very_ dominant mare.
Perhaps there is no more dominant animal within some large radius?
Someone has to be most dominant, yes? It might be the subject mare. In
that case, what?
sharon
Bill Kambic
The probabilities of a two year old being the dominant mare in a mixed
herd are pretty low. Not zero, mind you, but low. They are not fully
mature either mentally or physically. They will likely get an early
education in herd hierachy.