Horses poop in the barn
Jack
we left the stall area open like a loafing shed. The horses love it
and spend a lot of time in the barn. The problem is that the horses
seem to prefer to poop in the barn rather than outside. THe result is
a time consuming effort to keep the barn floor clean. Any ideas of
how we can get them to poop outside the barn and lessen this chore?
I know we can close it so they can't get into it but that defeats the
reason we built it to give them a shelter out of the weather.
Jane Saranac
"Jack" <jpla...@NOSPAMjuno.com> wrote in message
news:49f1032b....@news.so.centurytel.net...
Horses poop in their stalls. Many prefer that for whatever reason. If you
were trying to get
out of doing individual stalls by having one "large" one, I dunno,
I don't think you are going to succeed <G>. You just have to
clean that one large stall. Or have 24/7 turnout.
If you succeed in training them to clean up after themselves,
you could make a lot of money <G>.
Cricket
"Jane Saranac" <jsala...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:F_SdncdLHd7Im2zU...@giganews.com...
At least with a big run-in, it's easier to run the Bobcat through every now
and again...
I used to own a gelding who would run (at top speed) from the back of a five
acre field to piss in the run in.
Personally, when I have to pee, I don't feel like running, but apparently it
was worth it to him.
Cricket
>
>
>
LandShark
> "Jane Saranac" <jsalaci...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>
> news:F_SdncdLHd7Im2zU...@giganews.com...
>
>
>
>
>
> > "Jack" <jplasa...@NOSPAMjuno.com> wrote in message
LOL! We have one horse who prefers to pee in the barn. The others go
outside. It's almost like they are potty-trained (as far as peeing in
the barn), except that one. She will step *into* her stall to pee.
But, every night, we clean our barn of the manure. We do have one
other horse who poops in the same place, in his stall. Makes it
easier to clean.
So, Jack, if you ever, are able to train your horses not to poop in
the barn, then, please... let me know! I'd love to teach ours, too.
Ruth W.
liz
"Jack" <jpla...@NOSPAMjuno.com> skrev i en meddelelse
news:49f1032b....@news.so.centurytel.net...
Hi Jack,
Look at it this way - you don't have to "poop-pick" your paddocks anymore,
do you;-)
You could try collecting it instead and make a pile of it there where you
want them to poop. Very often they will oblige, more or less! At least mine
do. Especially stallions and geldings do - a territorial message to others!
Liz
JC Dill
You can barn-train a horse just like you house-train a dog. It doesn't
happen in a day, and it takes work. It's easiest to do when you have a
new horse/barn situation, but you can also do it with an existing situation.
1) Make the barn as unsuitable for a bathroom as you can. This means
no bedding to reduce urine splashing, and ideally wood or concrete
floors, or rubber pads (over dirt floors) to increase splashing. You
can slowly add bedding later once the horses are trained but for this
training period NO bedding in the barn.
2) Put bedding (to reduce urine splashing) outside, in the area you
want to encourage the horse to use for eliminating. Use the same
bedding you were using in the barn. It doesn't matter if some of it
blows away.
3) Clean the stalls as thoroughly as you can, to reduce urine and
manure smells. Use soap and water and lime as needed to get rid of
lingering smells. If you have dirt floors you may need to bring in
fresh dirt.
4) Close the doors to keep the horses out of the barn unless you are
there to monitor them, until they routinely and voluntarily leave the
barn to go outside to eliminate.
So the barn has been prepared, and you open the doors to let the horses
in. Ideally you start with just 1 or 2 horses, not a whole herd. Put a
small amount of feed in the barn and let the horse(s) in to eat.
5) Watch like a hawk for any signs that a horse is preparing to poop or
pee, and when you see it YELL (I use the word "OUTSIDE") and WAVE YOUR
ARMS and run the horse out of the barn. Stand near the doorway and
don't let the horse back in until it has done its business. (This may
take some time, as the horse may lose the "urge" to eliminate when you
run it outside.)
6) When you see the horse peeing or pooping outside the barn praise it.
For even faster results, give a treat (cookie or carrot), for even
faster results use clicker training so you can "click" when the horse
eliminates outside, then give the treat.
7) Let the horse(s) back into the barn to eat some more.
8) When the horses are done eating, gently shoo them out (using the
same term as before, e.g. "outside" but not yelling), and close the door
to keep them out (while you aren't there). If you are feeding hay 2x
daily, feed about 1/2 a meal in the barn, then put the rest outside so
they finish their meal outside the barn.
8) Repeat at each meal for a week (14 meals), gradually increasing the
amount of the meal you put in the barn.
9) On a day when you can be at/in the barn all day, put a full meal out
for breakfast and then after breakfast hang around near the barn (where
you can immediately take action if a horse starts to show signs of
peeing or pooping in the barn) and clean tack, paint, etc. while
watching the horses.
10) Whenever a horse voluntarily leaves the barn to eliminate, give the
horse big verbal praise, and a big treat (several cookies, several carrots).
11) If you turn your back (or the door opens when you aren't there) and
a horse eliminates in the barn shoo the horse out then clean it up
immediately. If you have a puddle of urine use some shavings to clean
it up and then put the soaked shavings just outside the barn door, to
mark an acceptable pee spot. After you clean it up, put some dirt on
the floor or mats and sweep - you want to get rid of the smell of the
urine or manure from the barn. You want the barn to smell like an
"eating place" and not smell like a "porta-potty".
I have barn-trained several horses over the years. They will sometimes
"break training" when we have really bad weather (driving rain for hours
on end, e.g. 3-4 inches a day in non-stop rain), choosing to poop in the
barn rather than go out in the driving rain to poop in the "manure spot"
in their paddock. I find that by promptly cleaning it up and
*especially* removing any soiled bedding or dirt so that the stall
doesn't take on the porta-potty smell, they resume pooping and peeing
outside as soon as the rain stops.
I've mentioned this process to many people over the years, but it's
pretty rare for anyone to take the time to do it. I find that really
odd because it's SO NICE to have a clean smelling barn that smells of
just horses and hay and not poop or urine, and it's much easier to clean
up the paddock than clean stalls. You will also use less bedding
because the horses don't walk the poop into the bedding - they usually
poop in one place (where there is no bedding) and pee in another place
(where there is bedding). You may need to keep putting bedding down
outside the stall - many horses break training and urinate in the stall
if there is no bedding outside - but you will use much less than is
required inside a stall. I find it VERY worthwhile to take the time to
train the horse to go outside.
jc
nancy...@gmail.com
whole new perspective on poop. I care not one iota where my horses
poop and pee. I am simply happy that they do. And my barn does not
smell of manure, since I keep it well-bedded, and I clean it twice
daily. Stalls smell when there is insufficient bedding to absorb the
wet and stink, or for a minute or two immediately following a fresh
load.
My horses are happy and comfortable and allowed to be horses. I can't
imagine running a horse out of the barn for lifting his tail. I'm far
more likely to say, "Good boy."
Horses tend to poop wherever they hang out. If you want them to poop
outside, then make sure they have a comfy place to hang outside. Give
them shade, hay, water, protection from bugs, and comfy footing.
There is no reason not to do the same in the run-in.
The last thing I would ever want to do is to suggest to a horse that
his poop is unwelcome.
Nancy
Hunter Hampton
What Nancy said.....
Cleaning up after horses is part of owning horses.
Hunter
Jane Saranac
"Hunter Hampton" <airstrea...@geemail.com> wrote in message
news:2mj3v49jkbthjcrhp...@4ax.com...
Agreed. Our side of the barn always smells great and is kept really clean.
And I don't think picking poop out of a paddock is more pleasant.
Especially if it's a big paddock and you have to lug a muck bucket around 3
or 4 acres. BT, DT.
nancy...@gmail.com
> Agreed. Our side of the barn always smells great and is kept really clean.
> And I don't think picking poop out of a paddock is more pleasant.
> Especially if it's a big paddock and you have to lug a muck bucket around 3
> or 4 acres. BT, DT.
Yup. Especially in the winter. I do the best I can to keep ahead of
the frozen poop. But every spring, there is a period of thawing poop
and back-breaking cleanup. If only I could get them to confine their
poop to the stalls and run-in where it's convenient to pick up! :)
Nancy
Hunter Hampton
<jsala...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Agreed. Our side of the barn always smells great and is kept really clean.
>And I don't think picking poop out of a paddock is more pleasant.
>Especially if it's a big paddock and you have to lug a muck bucket around 3
>or 4 acres. BT, DT.
I'm not one to pick paddocks, I just hit the poop piles with the lawn
tractor and send it flying <g>
Hunter
JC Dill
> Cleaning up after horses is part of owning horses.
I don't barn-train my horses to avoid cleaning up after them. I do it
so that the stall doesn't become a porta-potty. It is simply healthier
if they don't eliminate in the same area where they eat.
In nature, horses don't eat where they eliminate - pastures have grazing
areas and "roughs" where they eliminate. The practice of eliminating
where they eat is developed thru our mis-management of the horses by
confining them to areas so small that they have no other option. Horses
that have never been confined in stalls will not soil in the areas where
they eat, including run-in sheds, unless the sheds already stink like
manure/urine and thus are marked as "potty" spots. I have a friend who
doesn't have any stalls or barns on her property, just one run-in shed
in her foaling paddock. Her horses never eliminate in the run-in shed.
(The rest of her property has large pastures and trees and swales and
they use the natural features for protection from the elements. Also,
weather is very mild - summers aren't very hot and winters aren't very
cold. She's on a bluff above the ocean.)
Deb Bennett described a horse being confined to a 12x12 stall as being
like a human living in a porta-potty. Being confined to a stall/small
paddock (e.g. 12x36 total space) is like living in a 6x8 jail cell.
Being confined to a large corral/paddock is like living in a studio
apartment. You need to get up to 1 acre to match the "living space" of
the average house, and more than 5 acres to equal a typical house+yard.
So, imagine living in a porta-potty. You are fed and eliminate and live
in this tiny area that smells of manure and urine. Clearly this isn't
healthy!
When possible, when there's enough room for the horse to have separate
areas for eliminating and eating it just makes sense to train the horse
to use these areas appropriately. It's better *for the horse* to not be
standing in an area with urine and manure fumes when eating. No matter
how much you clean the stalls, the smell is there, and particularly when
the horse eliminates while eating.
When you are eating and you feel the urge to go, do you just take a dump
there, under the table, and keep eating? If someone else at the table
did that, would you keep eating? If you went to a park and selected a
picnic table and then discovered someone had taken a dump under it,
would you "muck it out" (clean up the mess) and then sit down to eat, or
would you find a different place to eat?
Horses eliminate where they eat ONLY because we confine them in barns
and stalls. It is EASY to train them to eliminate outside. I usually
only have to run the horse out of the stall a few times (and it doesn't
take that much effort to run them out, if you are paying attention)
during the initial training period before they start to go outside on
their own. They are drawn to the manure and urine smells outside (I
always leave a small amount of manure as the "seed" when I muck out,
during the training period) as the natural place to eliminate. As long
as there are no smells or bedding in the barn to encourage them to
eliminate in the barn they quickly pick regular places outside the barn
to become their "roughs" for elimination. It's more natural for them to
do this, which is why they don't "break training" once they have become
accustomed to eliminating away from their feeding area, except in
unpleasant weather.
As with anything, YMMV. It works for me, here, in part because we have
a mild climate and don't need to confine horses in stalls at any time of
the year.
jc
emja...@gmail.com
> As with anything, YMMV. It works for me, here, in part because we have
> a mild climate and don't need to confine horses in stalls at any time of
> the year.
>
> jc
What happens if you have to confine your horse to a stall for medical
reasons?
Mary
Lisa W
> You can barn-train a horse just like you house-train a dog. It doesn't
> happen in a day, and it takes work. It's easiest to do when you have a
> new horse/barn situation, but you can also do it with an existing
> situation.
>
<a whole bunch of work got cut out>
I'll just settle for Taz's habit of pooping along the back wall and
pee-ing pretty smack in the middle of his stall. He doesn't step in it.
Doesn't spread it around. It's easy to pick and clean.
LisaW
--
“If you believe you don’t need a miracle. If you don’t, a million
miracles wouldn’t matter.”
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
out of freedom. What one
person receives without working for, another person must work for
without receiving. The government
cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take
from somebody else. When
half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because
the other half is going to
take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no
good to work because
somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
is about the end of any
nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
Dr. Adrian Rogers,
1931-2005
nancy...@gmail.com
> When possible, when there's enough room for the horse to have separate
> areas for eliminating and eating it just makes sense to train the horse
> to use these areas appropriately. It's better *for the horse* to not be
> standing in an area with urine and manure fumes when eating.
So feed them outside. Mine choose between hay in the woods, hay in
the paddock, hay in the run-in, and hay in the stalls. They eat where
they want to and poop where they want to. I get maybe a couple poops
per day in the stalls. Urine is way the heck down under deep shavings
- no fumes except while it's going from horse to ground, and later
while I remove it. Manure fumes, when present at all, are minimal and
temporary due to ample bedding and good ventilation.
> No matter
> how much you clean the stalls, the smell is there, and particularly when
> the horse eliminates while eating.
And you can smell it when they eliminate in the paddock. And you can
smell it in their "potty" areas. The *worst* stench we ever had to
endure was a Percheron who chose a pee hole in one spot in the
paddock. It always reeked. So we added a foot of bedding and mucked
it daily, after digging out a few feet of stinky earth and putting in
a dry well.
> When you are eating and you feel the urge to go, do you just take a dump
> there, under the table, and keep eating?
I am not a horse.
> As with anything, YMMV. It works for me, here, in part because we have
> a mild climate and don't need to confine horses in stalls at any time of
> the year.
My climate does not require that I confine the horses. They do not
melt nor freeze. They are shut in maybe twice per year, when trees
are falling, and for 20 minutes before the vet or farrier arrive. And
in that time period, I certainly don't want them anxious about not
being allowed to eliminate.
Gotta agree to disagree.
Nancy
JC Dill
> I certainly don't want them anxious about not
> being allowed to eliminate.
They don't become anxious about being not allowed to eliminate! They
learn to walk out to the potty area when they need to eliminate. They
are entirely comfortable when they are eating in the stall. This is no
different than housebreaking a dog. Once a dog is housebroke it isn't
anxious about being in the house!
I'm not saying you should, or have to do this. I'm just saying that the
arguments presented about why this seems a bad idea appear to come from
a lack of exposure to it. I've done it - you have only read about it.
I've trained several horses to do this. It's not hard to train, the
horses aren't traumatized, they don't become anxious about the stall.
It's a lot like clicker training - people think it's one thing until
they try it, then they discover their initial impressions are
inaccurate. If you don't want to do it, fine. But don't "knock it"
until you have seen how it actually works, OK?
jc
Diane
"Jack" <jpla...@NOSPAMjuno.com> wrote in message
news:49f1032b....@news.so.centurytel.net...
Our horses are fed in their stalls and eliminate also in their stalls. The
hay is dropped where there is no manure and their grain is in their feed
bins. Most will go along the wall and obviously the mares pee along the
wall and geldings in the middle. My horse does not like to pee outside, so
when he goes to shows its either in the trailer or if it gets real bad he
needs privacey which is difficult, he had gotten a lot better the more he
showed. You can make them pee if they don't want too??
Diane
JC Dill
> My horse does not like to pee outside,
It is likely that your horse doesn't like to pee where there is no
bedding, and he prefers to pee in the place that *smells* like pee (and
has bedding) which is the stall or the trailer.
You CAN train him to pee outside. Strip the stall and put ALL the
bedding (clean and dirty) outside in the adjacent paddock or if you
don't have an adjacent paddock use a small paddock or pasture. The
dirty bedding will help this area smell like pee, smell like the place
he is supposed to pee.
If this is an attached stall/paddock, close the stall so he can't get
inside. Feed him outside, and he will eat and pee and poop outside.
Leave him outside for at least a week to establish this new habit.
Obviously you will want to do this at a time of year when it is suitable
for him to live outside 24x7 for a week in your climate. Use blankets
or sheets as needed.
When you return to letting him use his stall, if it's a stall with an
adjacent paddock you can use the steps I outlined in my earlier post to
help him learn to go outside to pee on the bedding in the paddock. (In
particular, be SURE to praise and reward him each time you shoo him out
and then wait until he pees outside. He will need lots of positive
reinforcement to help him learn to WANT to pee outside on the bedding,
instead of in the stall where he has been peeing his whole life.)
Otherwise he will quickly resume peeing in the stall, because it is a
long-established habit. Leave the stall stripped. Provide additional
bedding outside as needed to provide a soft place to lay down and plenty
of bedding to pee on. As you clean the paddock each day leave *some* of
the dirty bedding as his "pee spot". You can also provide 2 piles of
bedding and leave one fully clean (for him to lay down on) but don't be
surprised if he pees in both piles.
If you don't have a stall with an adjacent paddock, it would be best to
resume keeping him in the stall in very short time increments - bring
him in for just a short time to eat and put him back outside again. Do
NOT bed the stall. You want to make it uncomfortable for him to pee in
the stall, and comfortable for him to pee outside. Initially bring him
in and stand there (with him on the halter/lead) and hold him while he
eats. If he shows any signs of dropping (preparing to pee) simply lead
him back out to his paddock before he pees in the stall. Put him in the
paddock, and if he doesn't pee right away simply bring his meal out to
the paddock and leave him to eat outside.
He will quickly learn that if he starts to drop to pee when you bring
him in to eat that it's going to delay his meal (while you take him back
out to the paddock, and then go get his meal and take it to the paddock)
and so he better focus on eating rather than peeing when you bring him
into the stall.
(If he's strongly triggered to pee each time he is put in the stall, it
may take several training sessions for him to learn to stop peeing
within minutes of you bringing him in. Again, NO bedding in the stall
for this training period.) Eventually he will learn to focus on eating
and you can stand with him while he eats then put him back out as soon
as he's done eating. When he has gone several meals without trying to
pee, then you can leave him to eat unattended, and again put him back
out right away when he is done.
> so when he goes to shows its either in the trailer or if it
> gets real bad he needs privacey which is difficult,
Horses don't "need privacy". They become accustomed to peeing in stalls
because we put bedding in stalls and they want to pee on the bedding
(especially geldings) to avoid having the pee splash on their legs.
Once he becomes accustomed to peeing on bedding outside you will be able
to put a pile of bedding next to the trailer and he will pee on it. The
triggers are bedding, smell (a place he or other horses have repeatedly
peed in, such as the stall at a show, or the trailer), and a "place that
is like a stall" (inside the trailer). You can change this to simply
"bedding" by keeping him in a paddock for a while so he learns to pee on
the bedding pile in the paddock. The first time you trailer him to a
show and want him to pee on bedding by the trailer, take along some
soiled (peed on) bedding and put that down, then a thin layer of clean
bedding over it. This will help that pile smell right, smell like the
place for him to pee. Once he "gets it" you can use clean bedding.
Obviously you need to clean up the bedding (and manure, etc.) after you
are done showing for the day.
In the beginning, give him an ample pile to pee on. After he gets the
idea you can use less and less bedding until it is a fairly small amount
of bedding - just enough to keep it from splashing on his legs.
> he had gotten a lot
> better the more he showed. You can make them pee if they don't want too??
If we can train horses to accept saddles, bridles, and riders;
harnesses, carriages, and drivers; to jump scary objects where they
can't see the landing; to calmly tolerate the chaos of a show; to go
over bridges, thru tunnels, not spook at dogs or strange animals; to
stand quietly while a leg is held (trapped) and even have a shoe nailed
on the hoof; and to willingly enter into claustrophobic boxes on wheels
that shake and make scary noises, often for hours on end; certainly we
can train them to pee on a pile of bedding on the ground. Just like
everything else we train them to accept, break it down to baby steps and
train it!
jc
JC Dill
> certainly we
> can train them to pee on a pile of bedding on the ground.
I wanted to add, it's perfectly OK to not train him to pee outside too.
I was just posting the details of how to train it to show that this
isn't an untrainable situation. Do what works best for you.
jc
John Hasler
> certainly we can train them to pee on a pile of bedding on the ground.
Most of them. I have a gelding who prefers to pee on concrete.
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
jo...@dhh.gt.org Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
Emily Brooks
"John Hasler" <jo...@dhh.gt.org> wrote in message
news:87ocuk7...@thumper.dhh.gt.org...
> JC Dill wrote:
>> certainly we can train them to pee on a pile of bedding on the ground.
>
> Most of them. I have a gelding who prefers to pee on concrete.
> --
> John Hasler
I have one of those too!
Emily
Diane
"JC Dill" <jcdill...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:gsvfjv$gao$1...@news.motzarella.org...
> Diane wrote:
>
>> My horse does not like to pee outside,
>
> It is likely that your horse doesn't like to pee where there is no
> bedding, and he prefers to pee in the place that *smells* like pee (and
> has bedding) which is the stall or the trailer.
>
> You CAN train him to pee outside. Strip the stall and put ALL the bedding
> (clean and dirty) outside in the adjacent paddock or if you don't have an
> adjacent paddock use a small paddock or pasture. The dirty bedding will
> help this area smell like pee, smell like the place he is supposed to pee.
not possible
>
> If this is an attached stall/paddock, close the stall so he can't get
> inside. Feed him outside, and he will eat and pee and poop outside. Leave
> him outside for at least a week to establish this new habit. Obviously you
> will want to do this at a time of year when it is suitable for him to live
> outside 24x7 for a week in your climate. Use blankets or sheets as
> needed.
not possible or probable
>
> When you return to letting him use his stall, if it's a stall with an
> adjacent paddock you can use the steps I outlined in my earlier post to
> help him learn to go outside to pee on the bedding in the paddock. (In
> particular, be SURE to praise and reward him each time you shoo him out
> and then wait until he pees outside. He will need lots of positive
> reinforcement to help him learn to WANT to pee outside on the bedding,
> instead of in the stall where he has been peeing his whole life.)
> Otherwise he will quickly resume peeing in the stall, because it is a
> long-established habit. Leave the stall stripped. Provide additional
> bedding outside as needed to provide a soft place to lay down and plenty
> of bedding to pee on. As you clean the paddock each day leave *some* of
> the dirty bedding as his "pee spot". You can also provide 2 piles of
> bedding and leave one fully clean (for him to lay down on) but don't be
> surprised if he pees in both piles.
I don't think so
>
> If you don't have a stall with an adjacent paddock, it would be best to
> resume keeping him in the stall in very short time increments - bring him
> in for just a short time to eat and put him back outside again. Do NOT
> bed the stall. You want to make it uncomfortable for him to pee in the
> stall, and comfortable for him to pee outside. Initially bring him in and
> stand there (with him on the halter/lead) and hold him while he eats. If
> he shows any signs of dropping (preparing to pee) simply lead him back out
> to his paddock before he pees in the stall. Put him in the paddock, and
> if he doesn't pee right away simply bring his meal out to the paddock and
> leave him to eat outside.
not possible
>
> He will quickly learn that if he starts to drop to pee when you bring him
> in to eat that it's going to delay his meal (while you take him back out
> to the paddock, and then go get his meal and take it to the paddock) and
> so he better focus on eating rather than peeing when you bring him into
> the stall.
not possible
>
> (If he's strongly triggered to pee each time he is put in the stall, it
> may take several training sessions for him to learn to stop peeing within
> minutes of you bringing him in. Again, NO bedding in the stall for this
> training period.) Eventually he will learn to focus on eating and you can
> stand with him while he eats then put him back out as soon as he's done
> eating. When he has gone several meals without trying to pee, then you
> can leave him to eat unattended, and again put him back out right away
> when he is done.
not possible
>
>> so when he goes to shows its either in the trailer or if it gets real bad
>> he needs privacey which is difficult,
>
> Horses don't "need privacy". They become accustomed to peeing in stalls
> because we put bedding in stalls and they want to pee on the bedding
> (especially geldings) to avoid having the pee splash on their legs. Once
> he becomes accustomed to peeing on bedding outside you will be able to put
> a pile of bedding next to the trailer and he will pee on it. The triggers
> are bedding, smell (a place he or other horses have repeatedly peed in,
> such as the stall at a show, or the trailer), and a "place that is like a
> stall" (inside the trailer). You can change this to simply "bedding" by
> keeping him in a paddock for a while so he learns to pee on the bedding
> pile in the paddock. The first time you trailer him to a show and want
> him to pee on bedding by the trailer, take along some soiled (peed on)
> bedding and put that down, then a thin layer of clean bedding over it.
> This will help that pile smell right, smell like the place for him to pee.
> Once he "gets it" you can use clean bedding.
there is no bedding in the trailer, he will pee outside if it is really
necessary
JC Dill
>
> "JC Dill" <jcdill...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:gsvfjv$gao$1...@news.motzarella.org...
>> Diane wrote:
>>
>>> My horse does not like to pee outside,
>>
>> It is likely that your horse doesn't like to pee where there is no
>> bedding, and he prefers to pee in the place that *smells* like pee
>> (and has bedding) which is the stall or the trailer.
>>
>> You CAN train him to pee outside. Strip the stall and put ALL the
>> bedding (clean and dirty) outside in the adjacent paddock or if you
>> don't have an adjacent paddock use a small paddock or pasture. The
>> dirty bedding will help this area smell like pee, smell like the place
>> he is supposed to pee.
>
> not possible
Could you elaborate on why all these things are "not possible"?
jc
Diane
He gets turnout into a paddock not attached to a stall
I don't think the barn manager would appreciate me not having bedding in my
stall. We foot our own stalls and I am not going to have my horse stand in
wet footing for hours at at time. If he is out long enough he will pee
outside, its just that they don't have 24/7 turnout here.
Diane
Cricket
"Emily Brooks" <sun...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:0LIIl.33463$b9...@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
I've known a few...I think they do it so they can hear anguished cries of
"What the hell is *wrong* with you??"
Or does that only happen when the farrier is standing in the aisle,
downstream? :>D
Cricket
>
>
Emily Brooks
"Cricket" <cc...@quixnet.net> wrote in message
news:NqidnSLyio6B427U...@t-one.net...
don't go off to have a smoke and leave Spot on the concrete beside your
stuff!
Emily - ended up with new and much better farrier after that incident. Thank
you, Spot.
JC Dill
> He gets turnout into a paddock not attached to a stall
> I don't think the barn manager would appreciate me not having bedding
> in my stall. We foot our own stalls and I am not going to have my horse
> stand in wet footing for hours at at time. If he is out long enough he
> will pee outside, its just that they don't have 24/7 turnout here.
If you don't have a way to do 24x7 turnout, then yes, this becomes
fairly difficult to do. However, if you really do want to train your
horse to prefer to pee outside (the barn manager may think this is a
splendid idea, if you suggest it) often they will be willing to let you
use a paddock 24x7 for a few weeks while you do the training.
There is no "standing in wet footing" as you do not *leave* the horse
confined in a stall with no bedding. You strip out all the bedding when
you are training the horse to use the stall for eating only, and to use
outdoors for peeing/pooping only. After the horse becomes comfortable
using the outdoors then you can add bedding back into the stall. Since
he would then be confined in the stall for more than just feeding, he
would resume peeing/pooping in the stall, but should also be much more
comfortable using the outdoor facilities - when he's turned out as well
as at a show. This will cut down on the bedding needed (he won't wait
to pee until he's brought in from turn-out for feeding) as well as the
work to clean the stall (less wet bedding to remove).
If this doesn't work for you, I totally understand. I'm not saying you
"should" do it, just outlining a program that might help you for your
horse's situation, if you wanted to change the situation.
jc
Cricket
I got my Percheron barn because their gelding kicked the last guy out the
barn door...been doing them for fifteen years, thirteen horses...thanks
Charlie! (That would be the gelding...)
Cricket
>
>
Jennifer Meyer-Mahoney
"Diane" <df...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:49f33254$0$22521$607e...@cv.net...
>
You can make them pee if they don't want too??
>
> Diane
Race horses get drug tested often so in some barns they are actually trained
to pee on command. It's kind of like clicker training. Every time you see
the horse start to pee you whistle or make some other completely distinctive
noise that you don't make at any other time. After doing this for a while
start whistling to cue the horse to pee at a time you know it will likely
want to then reward when it does. Then you can move to cuing the horse to
pee other than its usual time again rewarding it when it does. In fairly
short order you have a horse trained to pee on command.
I have a retired race horse who associates getting hay with peeing.
Everytime you give her a new flake of hay she pees. She will also pee to ask
for more hay. If I'm outside and she sees me and wants more hay she
whinnies, goes and stands where hay gets thrown, whinnies again, then when
she's sure I'm looking pees and looks at me expectantly. I usually laugh and
give her at least a handful after 15 years she has me pretty well trained.
Jennifer
Peppy
> "John Hasler" <j...@dhh.gt.org> wrote in message
My 2 geldings, QH & TB, have trained thenselves to go in the
wheelbarrow...
It's really funny, I was picking their shared field out, had a phone
call, ran into the barn to answer it and got hung up on the phone with
a friend's emergency for about an hour, came back to find 2 steaming
piles in the wheelbarrow and both contentedly grazing on their hay.
Of course, now and again, the TB decides that he has to stop me while
I am moving the wheelbarrow, and "wait" for him to deposit, however
long that might take him.
Now, If I can only convince them both to use the mucket bucket in the
corner of their field for that very same purpose instead of a game of
"Kick-the-Can"!
Peppy
Jack
the horses were going to pee and get them out before they did it.
However when a horse lifts his tail to poop, it is too late. Even
then we drove them out and cleaned up behind them. We thought we were
making progress but, after a week, we decided to trust them and guess
what? They pooped and peed again. Any more thoughts? Jack
On Fri, 24 Apr 2009 00:09:31 GMT, jpla...@NOSPAMjuno.com (Jack)
wrote:
JC Dill
> Well, we tried the procedure outlined by JC Dill. We could tell when
> the horses were going to pee and get them out before they did it.
> However when a horse lifts his tail to poop, it is too late. Even
> then we drove them out and cleaned up behind them. We thought we were
> making progress but, after a week, we decided to trust them and guess
> what? They pooped and peed again. Any more thoughts? Jack
When and how were you rewarding them for peeing and pooping outside the
stall?
Did you have any bedding in the stall before, during, or after this
training program?
Did you put bedding outside for the horses to pee in?
Did you leave some manure outside to mark a "manure spot" to encourage
the horse to poop outside?
jc
Jack
On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:23:19 -0700, JC Dill <jcdill...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>Jack wrote:
>> Well, we tried the procedure outlined by JC Dill. We could tell when
>> the horses were going to pee and get them out before they did it.
>> However when a horse lifts his tail to poop, it is too late. Even
>> then we drove them out and cleaned up behind them. We thought we were
>> making progress but, after a week, we decided to trust them and guess
>> what? They pooped and peed again. Any more thoughts? Jack
>
>When and how were you rewarding them for peeing and pooping outside the
>stall?
When we observed them pee and poop outside we immediatelly praised
them and gave them pats on the head and neck.
>
>Did you have any bedding in the stall before, during, or after this
>training program?
Our barn is open and has no stall partitions. It is more like a
loafing shed. All we did is put 4-6" of creek sand on top of the bare
ground. All along we have been going into this area and removing the
poop and tossing it outside. The pee areas were just wet sand. We
removed all the wet pee riden sand and covered the area with a
material we got from the co op that is used in chicken houses to cover
and dry the amonia pee. After cleaning it up and removing the smell,
we covered it with fresh sand. So, we have not used any kind of
shavings. Only sand
>
>Did you put bedding outside for the horses to pee in?
>
No, however we had put the pee ridden sand in one spot.
>Did you leave some manure outside to mark a "manure spot" to encourage
>the horse to poop outside?
Yes
>
>jc
John Hasler
> When we observed them pee and poop outside we immediatelly praised them
> and gave them pats on the head and neck.
So you didn't reward them at all.
Ocean of Nuance
> Jack writes:
>> When we observed them pee and poop outside we immediatelly praised them
>> and gave them pats on the head and neck.
>
> So you didn't reward them at all.
LOL.
sharon
JC Dill
> JC, See inserts below
>
> On Fri, 12 Jun 2009 09:23:19 -0700, JC Dill <jcdill...@gmail.com>
> wrote:
>
>> Jack wrote:
>>> Well, we tried the procedure outlined by JC Dill. We could tell when
>>> the horses were going to pee and get them out before they did it.
>>> However when a horse lifts his tail to poop, it is too late. Even
>>> then we drove them out and cleaned up behind them. We thought we were
>>> making progress
What did you see that gave you the impression you were "making
progress"? Were the horses voluntarily leaving the barn to pee or poop
outside? Please describe in detail.
>>> but, after a week, we decided to trust them and guess
>>> what? They pooped and peed again. Any more thoughts? Jack
>> When and how were you rewarding them for peeing and pooping outside the
>> stall?
>
> When we observed them pee and poop outside we immediatelly praised
> them and gave them pats on the head and neck.
The praise needs to be more tangible than this. I *highly* recommend
you try clicker training so you can more clearly mark and reward the
desired behavior. The trick with clicker training is that it helps YOU
more clearly mark the exact behavior that is being rewarded.
>> Did you have any bedding in the stall before, during, or after this
>> training program?
> Our barn is open and has no stall partitions. It is more like a
> loafing shed.
Do you feed the horses in the barn, or is this just for shelter from the
weather?
Outside of the barn is it just a paddock, or pasture?
Are your horses fed hay, pellets or cubes, and/or grain?
Are there other areas of the barn (e.g. equipment storage, tack room,
feed room) or is the building a stand-alone horse shelter with no other
spaces?
When you were monitoring their access to the barn, where were you in
relation to the horses?
Did you ever keep them out of the barn entirely so that they could
become accustomed to going outside 24x7?
What is the weather like in your area right now?
> All we did is put 4-6" of creek sand on top of the bare
> ground. All along we have been going into this area and removing the
> poop and tossing it outside. The pee areas were just wet sand. We
> removed all the wet pee riden sand and covered the area with a
> material we got from the co op that is used in chicken houses to cover
> and dry the amonia pee. After cleaning it up and removing the smell,
> we covered it with fresh sand. So, we have not used any kind of
> shavings. Only sand
The problem here is that the nature of the footing/bedding didn't change
- to the horses it still looked like the same place they have always
been peeing in.
I recommend stripping out all the sand so that the surface is a hard dry
surface and unpleasant to pee on. Put all the sand outside, where you
want them to pee.
>> Did you put bedding outside for the horses to pee in?
>>
> No, however we had put the pee ridden sand in one spot.
Add a bale of shavings outside to further encourage them to pee outside.
In the beginning you need to do everything possible to make the
outside a more desirable place to pee.
>> Did you leave some manure outside to mark a "manure spot" to encourage
>> the horse to poop outside?
> Yes
How far was this from the loafing shed? Was it an area where the horses
would poop on their own, was it an area where you saw and rewarded them
for pooping outside? Was the manure scattered, or in a pile? I have
had the best luck with leaving a "pile" to mark the manure location.
If they aren't voluntarily leaving the barn to pee and poop then you
haven't been effective at making your wishes known - you haven't been
effective at sending them out, and/or at rewarding them for voluntarily
going outside.
In order for this to work you have to do ALL the steps. As you describe
it here, you only did a few of the steps or only did them part way,
which is why it didn't work.
1) Make the barn uninviting to pee/poop in.
The barn must be as uninviting for peeing/pooping as possible. Manure
and urine smells and all bedding or other soft (suitable for peeing on)
surfaces need to be eliminated. As far as possible it must be clean and
dry and not smell like or resemble the place where they are accustomed
to eliminating.
2) Ensure they don't ever pee/poop in the barn while training them.
2a) Barn access must be restricted when you aren't around to monitor
them until they are fully trained.
2b) You *must* be effective at preventing them from pooping in the
barn. This means being more observant and faster to take action so they
don't poop anyway because you were too slow to notice and take action.
3) Reward desired behavior.
They need to clearly understand that pooping outside is desirable and is
rewarded. If petting and verbal praise isn't effective then you need to
step up the rewards - use a clicker, use food. Do this until the horses
"get" that they are rewarded for peeing and pooping outside and they
start to regularly voluntarily leave the barn to go outside to pee and
poop. Use "jackpot" rewards at first whenever a horse voluntarily
leaves the barn to go outside to pee/poop, and use "regular" (smaller)
rewards when you have to cue for the behavior (send them outside) or
when you see them eliminating outside (when they weren't inside first).
This is how you help them get to the "Aha!" moment where they realize
that *leaving* the barn to go outside to eliminate will gain a reward.
4) Phase out rewards.
After they show that they clearly understand that going outside is what
you want and they happily and willingly voluntarily comply without any
prompting, start to phase out the rewards - only rewarding them for
going outside some of the time (not every time). They need to be
trained to go outside on their own, not just because you are there or
just because you will reward them. Otherwise it won't "hold" when you
aren't there!
5) Phase in unsupervised access.
ONLY when you no longer have to enforce the "don't pee/poop" in the barn
rule at all when you are present can you begin to phase in unsupervised
barn access. In the beginning of the phased-in unsupervised access,
unsupervised access needs to be for very short amounts of time, perhaps
1/2 hour at a time. Ideally you can still "supervise" from a greater
distance and reward if/when they go outside to pee/poop. Over time (and
because of #4, you are no longer rewarding every time they go outside)
they can be trusted unsupervised over longer periods of time.
jc
JZMiller
LOL
Sorry, but if I had to do all that to get a horse not to crap
inside--------I'd be nuts. So, I don't care, I own the damn horses and
they go whenever, in the barn, out in paddocks, in the field, they do
create manure. Clean it up. GET over it. You own the animal and must
clean up his mess. I suggest getting cement creations if you don't
like to clean up manure. I seriously doubt anyone can get a horse to
crap outside his stall or loaf shed if 100% of the time. As the bumper
sticker says "shit happens".
I apologize to those who care, or want to care, or who spend hours
trying to care. Time ill spend if you ask me.
Jody
Hunter Hampton
<dressa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>LOL
>Sorry, but if I had to do all that to get a horse not to crap
>inside--------I'd be nuts. So, I don't care, I own the damn horses and
>they go whenever, in the barn, out in paddocks, in the field, they do
>create manure. Clean it up. GET over it. You own the animal and must
>clean up his mess.
Thank you, I was incredulous reading all that... Gads, it's a heck of
a lot quicker just to pick up after the horse. You'd have to pick it
up outside or you'd have flies galore.
Picking up after the horse is part of owning it.....
Hunter
JC Dill
> Sorry, but if I had to do all that to get a horse not to crap
> inside--------I'd be nuts.
It's not complicated but I spelled it out in detail since they were
having problems getting it to work.
> So, I don't care, I own the damn horses and
> they go whenever, in the barn, out in paddocks, in the field, they do
> create manure. Clean it up. GET over it.
If that works for you, great. No one is saying *you* have to, or
should, do this. I was asked if it was possible and I said I trained my
horses to do it, and outlined how.
Have you ever been in a house with someone who didn't house train their
dog and who "got over it" and just clean up after the dog every time the
dog eliminates in the house? Don't you think "Why the heck didn't they
properly house break the dog? It isn't that hard!" Well, it isn't that
hard to do the same with a horse, if your horses always have access to
"outside" to eliminate - it's EXACTLY like training a dog to use the
doggie door and go outside.
For most horses you are dealing with an animal that has become
accustomed to "crapping in the house" so you have a remedial training
situation, just as with a dog that regularly craps in the house. In a
remedial housebreaking situation you must eliminate all smells and other
triggers that give the animal a reason to think eliminating inside is
OK, and you have to be clear about getting the animal outside to
eliminate each and every time, and you have to clearly reward the animal
for complying so that it "gets" that going outside is the new rule.
People who rescue dogs accomplish this training all the time (when
taking on a dog that wasn't properly housebroke and developed a habit of
eliminating in the house) - it's not that hard!
> You own the animal and must
> clean up his mess. I suggest getting cement creations if you don't
> like to clean up manure. I seriously doubt anyone can get a horse to
> crap outside his stall or loaf shed if 100% of the time.
I'm disappointed in you - I expected you to have a more open mind about
how easily horses learn when the training is done correctly.
Service horses are easily housebroken.
www.theclickercenter.com/panda/
www.clickertraining.com/node/84
> I apologize to those who care, or want to care, or who spend hours
> trying to care. Time ill spend if you ask me.
I personally find the training time is well worthwhile for the horses to
have manure and urine free shelters. It doesn't take that much time, if
you go about it correctly. I found it easier to "housebreak" my horses
than to train most horses to self-load in a horse trailer. Given that
cleaning up after horses is a daily activity and hauling them isn't a
daily activity, the payoff can be significant - lower bedding costs,
shorter clean-up time, cleaner stalls, cleaner horses, fresher air.
It only works if your horses have full-time access to outside, or if
they are only brought into stalls for very short periods (e.g. just for
feeding supplements).
jc
JC Dill
> Gads, it's a heck of
> a lot quicker just to pick up after the horse. You'd have to pick it
> up outside or you'd have flies galore.
>
> Picking up after the horse is part of owning it.....
Hunter, this isn't meant to be a short-cut to avoid picking up after the
horses. I still pick-up after my horses. It's about having a
stall/shelter that doesn't stink of urine/manure. Even if you clean it
daily, it still smells much more when the horse eliminates in the stall
than when you train the horse to step outside to eliminate. Since the
stall doesn't have any manure in it, flies that are drawn to the manure
don't congregate in the stall and the stall becomes more of a fly-free
zone, making it even more comfortable for the horse.
The end result is that the horse has a fume free, bug free shelter from
the elements, which is a benefit to the horse.
Taking the time to housebreak (or barn-break) a horse is a lot like
taking the time to train a horse to respond to a gentle feel of the bit.
Sure, you could just cram in a harsh piece of hardware and jerk and
yank, many horses are "broke" that way (especially in 3rd world
countries where people don't have the luxury of hiring an expert to
"break" a horse or donkey) and can be controlled with this type of
handling. But it's more humane to train the horse to respond to a
gentle feel, right?
jc
Madeline Rockwell
news:fefa4df3-fbab-4c0e...@a36g2000yqc.googlegroups.com...
>LOL
>Sorry, but if I had to do all that to get a horse not to crap
>inside--------I'd be nuts. So, I don't care, I own the damn horses and
>they go whenever, in the barn, out in paddocks, in the field, they do
>create manure. Clean it up. GET over it. You own the animal and must
>clean up his mess. I suggest getting cement creations if you don't
>like to clean up manure. I seriously doubt anyone can get a horse to
>crap outside his stall or loaf shed if 100% of the time. As the bumper
>sticker says "shit happens".
>I apologize to those who care, or want to care, or who spend hours
>trying to care. Time ill spend if you ask me.
>Jody
I'm inclined to agree.
My horses, however, figured out half of this equation on their own. When we
call them in for meals, they go out of the shed to pee and poop. That's
fine. When we go to let them back out, they poop in their stalls before they
leave.
And this with NO training!!!
madeline
Cricket
"Madeline Rockwell" <made...@vermontel.net> wrote in message
news:12452419...@yoda.vermontel.net...
There are plenty of horses who'll on use one corner of their stalls, so it's
apparently something they're "pre-wired" to at least be aware of.
I had one once who'd run all the way from the back of the pasture to pee in
the run-in...not what you'd want, but obviously he was capable of thinking
about it before he did it. Never could understand it - *I* don't want to
run when I need to pee...
Cricket
Hunter Hampton
wrote:
>
>I had one once who'd run all the way from the back of the pasture to pee in
>the run-in...not what you'd want, but obviously he was capable of thinking
>about it before he did it. Never could understand it - *I* don't want to
>run when I need to pee...
When I'm scooping feed Bailey stretches out and pees.... seems he
doesn't care to eat on a full bladder <g>
Hunter
Grizzly
>>
>> madeline
>>
>
> There are plenty of horses who'll on use one corner of their stalls, so it's
> apparently something they're "pre-wired" to at least be aware of.
>
> I had one once who'd run all the way from the back of the pasture to pee in
> the run-in...not what you'd want, but obviously he was capable of thinking
> about it before he did it. Never could understand it - *I* don't want to
> run when I need to pee...
>
> Cricket
>
>
>
how late they are gelded. It could be your gelding was simply showing
the herd that the shed was "his". Most of the horses that I've had that
were male used the corner to poop in and tended to pee in one spot in
the stall. It made mucking out a heckuva lot easier. The mares on the
other hand could be some of the worst pigs I've ever dealt with,
crapping in water buckets, turning the stall into a swampy muck pit if
left to their own devices indoors for a day. Not all of them though. The
ones that were brought up inside tended to be neater about where they
went than those who were used to being out 24/7.
Ocean of Nuance
LOL!
sharon
JZMiller
>
> Geldings sometimes mark territory much like stallions do. It depends on
> how late they are gelded. It could be your gelding was simply showing
> the herd that the shed was "his". Most of the horses that I've had that
> were male used the corner to poop in and tended to pee in one spot in
> the stall. It made mucking out a heckuva lot easier. The mares on the
> other hand could be some of the worst pigs I've ever dealt with,
> crapping in water buckets, turning the stall into a swampy muck pit if
> left to their own devices indoors for a day. Not all of them though. The
> ones that were brought up inside tended to be neater about where they
> went than those who were used to being out 24/7.
MY neat horse is my mare. Midnight makes a pile, and will pee on top
of it. She leaves the rest of her stall clean, plus, both of her
offspring, one filly, one colt have the same habits. I watched her
teach her kids, she pushed them to the corner, and made them use the
"potty". Seriously, if we could Vulcan mind meld this mare we could
make a fortune. My geldings pretty much grind the manure into bits
everywhere in the stalls, except Midnight's son, he piles it high in
the corner. Bless his heart.
The other boys pee in the same spot, and it tends to be in the center
where they can do a big stretch. Nobody wants any splashing on their
legs, Gawd forbid, that they save for inside on shavings. I've seen
Marcker literally crossing his legs to get inside to pee, the little
shit, or as the case might be, the giant piss head.
Jody
JZMiller
wrote:
Once they decide on a routine it sticks. Bailey figures more room
for food, get everything empty!
:))))
Jody
Hunter Hampton
<dressa...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> Once they decide on a routine it sticks. Bailey figures more room
>for food, get everything empty!
>
>:))))
>
>Jody
I do the same thing when I'm trying on clothes <g>
Hunter
Lisa W
From the subject line, I have to wonder, is it anything like what bears
do in the woods??
;-)
LisaW
--
�If you believe you don�t need a miracle. If you don�t, a million
miracles wouldn�t matter.�
"You cannot legislate the poor into freedom by legislating the wealthy
out of freedom. What one
person receives without working for, another person must work for
without receiving. The government
cannot give to anybody anything that the government does not first take
from somebody else. When
half of the people get the idea that they do not have to work because
the other half is going to
take care of them, and when the other half gets the idea that it does no
good to work because
somebody else is going to get what they work for, that my dear friend,
is about the end of any
nation. You cannot multiply wealth by dividing it."
Dr. Adrian Rogers,
1931-2005
Lisa W
> There are plenty of horses who'll on use one corner of their stalls, so it's
> apparently something they're "pre-wired" to at least be aware of.
>
> I had one once who'd run all the way from the back of the pasture to pee in
> the run-in...not what you'd want, but obviously he was capable of thinking
> about it before he did it. Never could understand it - *I* don't want to
> run when I need to pee...
>
And there are those horses that, having been out all day, come into the
barn, see a nice clean stall --- and have to pee. We have 2 of them and
I can't believe we have the only 2 in existence!
jcdill
> Geldings sometimes mark territory much like stallions do.
That's actually how this whole thing started for me - I stall trained my
stallion quite easily and almost "by accident" because he always wants
to make a poop pile. He was making a pile in a place where I didn't
want it (between the gate and the feeder, so even a single pile was
something I had to step over or around whenever I put anything in the
feeder), so I "seeded" a new pile a bit further down the fence with some
manure from another horse. He went and pooped on top of this "other"
manure and I praised him, and if he pooped anywhere else I immediately
cleaned it up, and in just a few days his poop pile had moved to the
better location. Then, when I redid his stall with brand new footing,
I left all the bedding out and put a bale of shavings out in his
paddock, and put some dirty bedding (from another horse) next to the
clean shavings. Just as with the seeded poop pile he peed on the soiled
bedding, and then on the clean bedding, and didn't pee on the hard
(splash producing) surface in his stall. When I added bedding to his
stall he walked in and started to assume the position to pee on the
bedding, and I waved him out, and kept him out until he peed on the
bedding outside. Then I praised him. It only took a few tries of
sending him outside (after I had put bedding in his stall) for him to
realize that peeing on the bedding outside was a much better idea, and
from then on he didn't pee or poop in his stall except when we had heavy
rain. After the rain I'd clean up every trace of pee and poop and leave
the stall with no bedding for a few days, so he would resume peeing on
the bedding pile outside, and pooping on his poop pile. As long as we
didn't have heavy rain (no rain at all for 6-8 months each summer) and
he had bedding to pee on in his paddock, his stall stayed perfectly clean!
When I brought my gelding to a new stable and built a new barn/paddock
for him, I kept the stall without bedding for the first few weeks
(partially because I was building the barn around the existing base/roof
and needed to keep the stall mats clean to find any nails that might
jump when nailing up the walls) and so I put bedding outside for him to
pee on. He wasn't as much of a "poop pile" guy as his dad, but sending
him out of his stall whenever he started to poop, then praising him for
pooping outside helped him get that idea as well. Again, once he "got"
it then he simply kept up with it and peed and pooped outside.
After training these 2 boys, training the mares was just as easy. Mares
don't care (as much) as boys about if the surface is hard or absorbent
(due to the angle of splash relative to the legs) but they got the idea
just as easily.
In each case, what really helped was moving to a new barn or redoing a
barn so that it A) had no (or less) pre-existing "this is the poop
place" association or smells, and B) being at the barn for many hours a
day (fixing up or redoing the barns) and easily able to send the horse
out of the stall when they set-up to eliminate, and C) regularly
rewarding the horse for eliminating outside (both if I sent them out, or
if they went out on their own) to reinforce that "outside" was the
proper place.
jc
cindi
> Since the
> stall doesn't have any manure in it, flies that are drawn to the manure
> don't congregate in the stall and the stall becomes more of a fly-free
> zone, making it even more comfortable for the horse.
>
> The end result is that the horse has a fume free, bug free shelter from
> the elements, which is a benefit to the horse.
I've got doors and walls on my stalls now, that used to just be open
by 12 feet to the attached paddocks (pic here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/allisonacres/3534569735/) and I have to
agree with jc - there is a HUGE difference in the stalls between the
horses who naturally poop/pee outside and the ones who just sort of go
anywhere. Of course I pick it all up no matter where it is, but the
inside of the stall is so much nicer on the ones that go outside. No
flies, no stink, no junk to stand in.
I have not trained anybody but I can certainly see the benefit.
Now, before I had the doors and walls I don't know if it would have
made that much of a difference unless I could get them to eliminate a
ways away. But now, with the relatively tiny opening of the 4' door,
the flies don't even bother coming in unless there is poop in there.
cindi
