Bestialtiy - Will Our Children Be Next??
Pet-Rights
engine for pet/animal related material and have come across disgusting sites
hosting "Bestiality Hard Core Pornography" displaying illegal images or movie
clips with humans having sex with animals?
I know I have all to much! The act of Bestiality alone is illegal in 24
States in the USA and deemed "animal abuse" by the Humane Society of the
United States!
The displaying of pornographic Bestiality images is illegal under Federal
Obscenity Laws just like "Child Pornography" in ALL of the USA, but seldom
gets enforced as it is given low priority with Federal Law Enforcement.
Did you ever stop and think, people sexually abusing animals could eventually
start doing the same to our children? Wives? Friends? and Mothers? Just as
Serial Killers who start by abusing animals, later start abusing and
murdering humans!
We need to put a stop to this now!!! Before our own children, family and
friends are next!!! We need to let our Federal and Local Law Enforcement
Agencies know to take this type of pornography seriously, just like they do
with child pornography!!! The one is just as illegal as the other!!!
We can start by emailing our Legislators and Federal Law Enforcement Agencies
and ask them to start enforcing the already existing laws that make this type
of pornography illegal, and let them know we do not want our children to be
the next victims of these sexual animal abusers and their illegal online Hard
Core Pornography!!!
If you find a USA based* site online displaying Bestiality Hard Core
Pornography PLEASE report it to the Regional FBI Office**, State Attorney
General***, and Local Law Enforcement**** where the site owner and hosting
ISP are located.
*you can visit http://www.samspade.org and run the site URL through their
tools to find the location of the site owner, hosting ISP, and their uplinks.
**the contact information for the FBI Regional Offices can be found at:
http://www.fbi.gov/contact/fo/fo.htm
***the State Attorney General's information can be found on the States
Official Webpage.
****many Local Law Enforcement Agencies can be found at:
http://officer.com/agencies.htm
 Â
To learn more about this issue please visit
http://members.aol.com/~animalsav
Below are some extracts from current Federal Laws and Cases that can be used
to prosecute the owners and ISP's of these US Based Illegal Pornography
Sites! ***********************************************
I would like to take this opportunity to provide some information to you, and
those involved who may not have been aware of these facts regarding
bestiality images and the acts:
1) Bestiality is *illegal* in 24 states, Canada, UK, Australia and many
countries besides, the well known "Humane Society of the US" has a fairly
extensive law citation page researched by their cruelty investigators located
at: http://www.hsus.org/current/state_laws.html
2) "At least 24 states have laws prohibiting sex with animals (AR, CA, DE,
GA, ID, KS, LA, MD, MA, MI, MN, MS, MT, NE, NY, NC, ND, OK, PA, RI, SC, UT,
VA, and WI). Three of these states (DE, KS, and MT) include prohibitions
against forcing someone else to commit a sexual act with an animal. " " In 5
states (DE, MI, NC, SC, and VA) animal sexual abuse is a felony. Two states
(MA and RI) may imprison offenders for up to 20 years. Four states (OK, MT,
MS, and MD) may imprison offenders for up to 10 years. Montana may also fine
an offender up to $50,000. In Louisiana, up to five years of hard labor may
be imposed on a convicted offender. "
**********************************************
             (FEDERAL LAWS)
US *Federal laws* apply to bestiality related materials of *ANY kind* under
the obscenity code and the Roth test for community standards, the law clearly
states "interactive computers" are included as a transfer method this law
covers. This was upheld in the federal courts in:
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Plaintiff-Appellee
v
ROBERT ALAN THOMAS (94-6648)
and CARLEEN THOMAS (94-6649),
Defendants-Appellants
"The computer-generated images and videotapes involved here portrayed
bestiality, incest, rape, and sex scenes involving defecation, urination, and
sado-masochistic abuse."
(Full Text of this case can be read at:
http://www.jmls.edu/cyber/cases/thomas.html)
Below you will find inclusion of both the Roth test as well as the federal
codes which apply, curtesy of several sources, but especially this site which
details federal laws: http://www.geocities.com/CapitolHill/2269/USC.html
US Code :1465 Chapter 71 Obscenity
US Code : Title 18, Section 1465
US Code as of: 01/26/98
Sec. 1465. Transportation of obscene matters for sale or distribution
Whoever knowingly transports or travels in, or uses a facility or means of,
interstate or foreign commerce or an interactive computer service (as defined
in section 230(e)(2) of the Communications Act of 1934) in or affecting such
commerce for the purpose of sale or distribution of any obscene, lewd,
lascivious, or filthy book, pamphlet, picture, film, paper, letter, writing,
print, silhouette, drawing, figure, image, cast, phonograph recording,
electrical transcription or other article capable of producing sound or any
other matter of indecent or immoral character, shall be fined under this
title or imprisoned not more than five years, or both.
The transportation as aforesaid of two or more copies of any publication or
two or more of any article of the character described above, or a combined
total of five such publications and articles, shall create a presumption that
such publications or articles are intended for sale or distribution, but such
presumption shall be rebuttable.
US Code : Title 18, Section 1462
US Code as of: 01/26/98
Sec. 1462. Importation or transportation of obscene matters
Whoever brings into the United States, or any place subject to the
jurisdiction thereof, or knowingly uses any express company or other common
carrier or interactive computer service (as defined in section 230(e)(2) of
the Communications Act of 1934), for carriage in interstate or foreign
commerce - (a) any obscene, lewd, lascivious, or filthy book, pamphlet,
picture, motion-picture film, paper, letter, writing, print, or other matter
of indecent character; or (b) any obscene, lewd, lascivious, or filthy
phonograph recording, electrical transcription, or other article or thing
capable of producing sound; or (c) any drug, medicine, article, or thing
designed, adapted, or intended for producing abortion, or for any indecent or
immoral use; or any written or printed card, letter, circular, book,
pamphlet, advertisement, or notice of any kind giving information, directly
or indirectly, where, how, or of whom, or by what means any of such mentioned
articles, matters, or things may be obtained or made; or
Whoever knowingly takes or receives, from such express company or other
common carrier or interactive computer service (as defined in section
230(e)(2) of the Communications Act of 1934) any matter or thing the carriage
or importation of which is herein made unlawful
Shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than five years, or
both, for the first such offense and shall be fined under this title or
imprisoned not more than ten years, or both, for each such offense
thereafter.
There is no federal law which prohibits sex between humans and animals. There
are a few federal laws, however, which list bestiality, along with many other
forms of sex, which are prohibited when involving children
(18 USCS@ 2256, 3509 (1994)
The Roth Test In 1957, the U.S. Supreme Court developed the Roth Test to
define obscenity. The Roth Test requires that the court ask whether to the
average person, applying contemporary community standards, the dominant theme
of the material taken as a whole appeals to prurient interest (Roth v. United
States, 354 US 476,
Since the Roth decision, the Supreme Court has added that such material must
be utterly without redeeming social values.
United States Code Chapter 71; Obscenity Section Content: 1460
Possession with intent to sell, and sale, of obscene matter on Federal
property 1461 Mailing obscene or crime-inciting matter 1462 Importation or
transportation of obscene matters 1463 Mailing indecent matter on wrappers or
envelopes 1464 Broadcasting obscene language 1465 Transportation of obscene
matters for sale or distribution 1466 Engaging in the business of selling or
transferring obscene matter 1467 Criminal forfeiture 1468 Distributing
obscene material by cable or subscription television 1469 Presumptions In
Armijo v. U.S., 384 F2d 694, The court ruled that portions of letters
describing in detail degenerate bestiality were not merely obscene but
represented hard-core pornography.
The federal code most damaging to hard core pornography (bestiality) is 18
USCS @ 1461, which prohibits obscene books as mailable. In the case U.S. v.
Miller 455 F.2d 899, this statute was applied by court to find that books
describing bestiality between women and a dog were unmailable.
Now remember the Roth Test...So now you know Bestiality Pornography can't be
mailed, imported, transported, broadcasted, transported, sold, transfered, or
distributed via cable or subscription televison.
Criminal forfeiture: Code 1467 says that the courts can take any property
that involved the obscenity law being broken. This could be your VCR, your
car, your computer, etcetera. You forfeited them when you used them to break
the law.
Presumptions: Code 1469 means that if there is any evidence that the material
was made somewhere else, be it direct evidence or even circumstantial
evidence, then the courts will immediately assume it was transported and
therefore violated Code 1462 as well.
--
Please Visit TOASTY'S PET-RIGHTS at:
http://members.tripod.com/~judymyers/index.html
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Rosy
>How many times have you been surfing the internet or doing a search on an
>engine for pet/animal related material and have come across disgusting sites
>hosting "Bestiality Hard Core Pornography" displaying illegal images or movie
>clips with humans having sex with animals?
Not only should it be illegal and is abusive, it is downright disgusting (not
to mention vulgur, thought that was a little obvious...). Ugh, makes you
wonder, sick people.
~~~**ROSE WINCEK**~~~
Gran Kaiser
2nd Year & Older Large Junior Hunters
Morning Star & Boris
Children's Jumpers
"Promise me, Pooh, that you won't forget me ever. Because if you would, I
wouldn't leave"
Terry von Gease
Rosy wrote in message <19991205233153...@ng-fu1.aol.com>...
>>
>>How many times have you been surfing the internet or doing a search on an
>>engine for pet/animal related material and have come across disgusting
sites
>>hosting "Bestiality Hard Core Pornography" displaying illegal images or
movie
>>clips with humans having sex with animals?
>
(not
>to mention vulgur, thought that was a little obvious...). Ugh, makes you
>wonder, sick people.
While this particular diversion is pretty much all of the things you say it
is. With the notion of abuse being debatable, just how is it that these
things are sufficient to pass a law proscribing them?
Do you figure, as do many marignal humans, that people should be prohibited
from doing anything that doesn't please you? While here at the home we ,
much like yourself, find this sort of thing most unpleasant and offputting,
we am not harmed by it nor do we see than anyone else is harmed by it.
--
Terry
Every time a bell rings an angel gets its wings
Every time a horn honks an angel gets set on fire
Rosy
>is. With the notion of abuse being debatable, just how is it that these
>things are sufficient to pass a law proscribing them?
>
>Do you figure, as do many marignal humans, that people should be prohibited
>from doing anything that doesn't please you? While here at the home we ,
>much like yourself, find this sort of thing most unpleasant and offputting,
>we am not harmed by it nor do we see than anyone else is harmed by it.
>
Ahh, my polithe teacher would love you. :). This is kind of like where do you
draw the line? Where is it abuse, and when is it free??? Looking at the other
side, a lot of things can be looked at as "abusive" or "harmful" if you skew
your vision enough, and those things bring people hapiness. How can we limit
it? Shouldn't people be allowed to practice what makes them happy?
::::shuddering for playing the devils advocate w/ beastiality::::: Isn't it an
inaleinable right?
Terry von Gease
>>While this particular diversion is pretty much all of the things you say
it
>>is. With the notion of abuse being debatable, just how is it that these
>>things are sufficient to pass a law proscribing them?
>>
>>Do you figure, as do many marignal humans, that people should be
prohibited
>>from doing anything that doesn't please you? While here at the home we ,
>>much like yourself, find this sort of thing most unpleasant and
offputting,
>>we am not harmed by it nor do we see than anyone else is harmed by it.
>>
>
>Ahh, my polithe teacher would love you. :).
I seriously doubt that.
>This is kind of like where do you
>draw the line? Where is it abuse, and when is it free???
This has nothing whatsoever to do with the proposed location of any line.
Describe clearly the activity and point out, precisely, where the abuse
might be. Offending your sensibilities is not abuse. Since the non-human
subject has no sensibilities, these being a cultural phenomenon, to be
offended this cannot be abuse either. This leaves only the possibility of
gratuitous physical discommodement. That would very much depend on little
else but the relative physical dimensions of the creatures involved.
> Looking at the other
>side, a lot of things can be looked at as "abusive" or "harmful" if you
skew
>your vision enough, and those things bring people hapiness. How can we
limit
>it? Shouldn't people be allowed to practice what makes them happy?
If no one is harmed by it, other than some overwhelming desire to meddle in
the affairs of others, why should you care?
>::::shuddering for playing the devils advocate w/ beastiality::::: Isn't it
an
>inaleinable right?
The point scoots right by your apparently ossified cognitive tackle. That
being that merely because something is disgusting is not sufficient cause
for legislation. If that were the case there would be specific height and
weight limitations on those who would wear spandex. Moreover it has nothing
to do with the rather naive concept of rights as you seem to view them.
ghostwalker
equin...@aol.combyteme (Equinimity) wrote:
> >How many times have you been surfing the internet or doing a
> search on an
> >engine for pet/animal related material and have come across
> disgusting sites
> >hosting "Bestiality Hard Core Pornography" displaying illegal
> images or
> >movie
> >clips with humans having sex with animals?
> when I
> followed a link on a fundamentalist "Christian" site urging me to
> see for
> myself what kinds of filth were being promulgated on the Internet.
> It was
> revolting, all right, but my main reaction was, "How did the holy
> rollers find
> these pictures, and why are they so anxious for ME to see them?"
> <snip>
> >Did you ever stop and think, people sexually abusing animals
> could eventually
> >start doing the same to our children? Wives? Friends? and
> Mothers?
> this sort of
> thing happens. Which leads me to conclude that Mom and my daughter
> are probably
> safe from the zoophiles.
> >Just
> >as
> >Serial Killers who start by abusing animals, later start abusing
> and
> >murdering humans!
> rant, I might buy
> this argument. As it is, I need some evidence that this is a
> credible
> comparison. I've never seen it made before.
> >We need to put a stop to this now!!! Before our own children,
> family and
> >friends are next!!!
> campaign for
> censorship on the Internet, and you are clearly pulling out all
> the stops in an
> effort to get people to respond out of unreflective revulsion.
Call your congressman or person or what ever is politically correct and
demand censorship on the internet and while we are at it let's put a
stop to anonymously posting,no more hiding behind a cute screen
name.This would stop the pedophiles from luring kids.Make them use
thier real names and addresses.and while we are at it lets not forget
vulgar language.get to those phones NOW!!!!!!!
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
The fastest and easiest way to search and participate in Usenet - Free!
Tom Stovall
[bestiality; tons of deletia]
re: "Oh, fuck you. Go rattle someone else's cage. This is just another
campaign for censorship on the Internet, and you are clearly pulling out
all the stops in an effort to get people to respond out of unreflective
revulsion..." -attribute lost
>Call your congressman or person or what ever is politically correct and
>demand censorship on the internet and while we are at it let's put a
>stop to anonymously posting, no more hiding behind a cute screen
>name...
You seem to be implying that anyone who posts anonymously is a
pedophile; unless this is a confession of sorts, please be reminded that
YOU are posting anonymously. As Sigmund is said to have said, "Pardon me
sir, your slip is showing."
>This would stop the pedophiles from luring kids. Make them use
>thier real names and addresses.and while we are at it lets not forget
>vulgar language...
Hell, while we're at it, why not gather up the Right Thinking Folks and
petition our congressrats to legislate compulsory bible reading, the
mandatory recitation of godbabble in public schools, Speaking in Tongues
(tm), and maybe a bit of snake handling?
get to those phones NOW!!!!!!!
Alas, I fear the Right Thinking Folks are once again at odds with that
troublesome First Amendment. If you're bound and determined to make a
call, why not ask your congressrat for something useful like a law
making stable stupidity a felony or a law mandating equine husbandry
classes BEFORE anyone is allowed to own or lease a horse?
Tom Stovall CJF
Farrier & Blacksmith
sto...@wt.net
http://web.wt.net/~stovall
Yo pienso, por eso, yo soy.
Equinimity
>engine for pet/animal related material and have come across disgusting sites
>hosting "Bestiality Hard Core Pornography" displaying illegal images or
>movie
>clips with humans having sex with animals?
Never. Not once. The only time I ever saw anything of the sort was when I
followed a link on a fundamentalist "Christian" site urging me to see for
myself what kinds of filth were being promulgated on the Internet. It was
revolting, all right, but my main reaction was, "How did the holy rollers find
these pictures, and why are they so anxious for ME to see them?"
<snip>
>Did you ever stop and think, people sexually abusing animals could eventually
>start doing the same to our children? Wives? Friends? and Mothers?
No. Because I have never, ever once run across any evidence that this sort of
thing happens. Which leads me to conclude that Mom and my daughter are probably
safe from the zoophiles.
>Just
>as
>Serial Killers who start by abusing animals, later start abusing and
>murdering humans!
If I were to indulge in an utterly emotional reaction to this rant, I might buy
this argument. As it is, I need some evidence that this is a credible
comparison. I've never seen it made before.
>We need to put a stop to this now!!! Before our own children, family and
>friends are next!!!
Oh, fuck you. Go rattle someone else's cage. This is just another campaign for
Tralrdr
>Call your congressman or person or what ever is politically correct and
>demand censorship on the internet and while we are at it let's put a
>stop to anonymously posting,no more hiding behind a cute screen
>name.This would stop the pedophiles from luring kids.Make them use
>thier real names and addresses.and while we are at it lets not forget
>vulgar language.get to those phones NOW!!!!!!!
>
>
Ummm I think the safest way for you to surf the net is to go to a Mayberry
server or burn your own computer. Calling for censorship in any subject is
akin to asking me to register my guns. Forget it!
The First Ammendment of the Constitution provides Americans the right to
freedom of expression and speech....mess with that and you open the door to
many many more abuses. How about registration of all computers so the Govt can
see what you are saying and about whom? How about registration of dental work
so they can dig the gold out of your teeth when the gold standard goes out the
roof? Oh, forget it, we are already there! Yikes. Blow that censorship
banner out your south end.
If you don't like it....well, don't read it!
And by the way, ghostwalker, what is your name anyway mr anonymous hiding
behind
a cutsie screen name yourself!
Pffttt!
Carrie N Miller
ghostwalker
wrote:
> anonymous, posting as "ghostwalker," wrote:
> [bestiality; tons of deletia]
> re: "Oh, fuck you. Go rattle someone else's cage. This is just
> another
> campaign for censorship on the Internet, and you are clearly
> pulling out
> all the stops in an effort to get people to respond out of
> unreflective
> >Call your congressman or person or what ever is politically
> correct and
> >demand censorship on the internet and while we are at it let's
> put a
> >name...
> You seem to be implying that anyone who posts anonymously is a
> pedophile; unless this is a confession of sorts, please be
> reminded that
> YOU are posting anonymously. As Sigmund is said to have said,
> "Pardon me
> sir, your slip is showing."
implication on my part,and once again you assume I am posting
anonymously and you know what they say about assuming,I dont even want
to get startd on Freud.
> >This would stop the pedophiles from luring kids. Make them use
> >thier real names and addresses.and while we are at it lets not
> forget
> Hell, while we're at it, why not gather up the Right Thinking
> Folks and
> petition our congressrats to legislate compulsory bible reading,
> the
> mandatory recitation of godbabble in public schools, Speaking in
> Tongues
> (tm), and maybe a bit of snake handling?
> get to those phones NOW!!!!!!!
> Alas, I fear the Right Thinking Folks are once again at odds with
> that
> troublesome First Amendment. If you're bound and determined to
> make a
> call, why not ask your congressrat for something useful like a law
> making stable stupidity a felony or a law mandating equine
> husbandry
> classes BEFORE anyone is allowed to own or lease a horse?
have your best intrest at heart
>
> Tom Stovall CJF
> Farrier & Blacksmith
> sto...@wt.net
> http://web.wt.net/~stovall
> Yo pienso, por eso, yo soy.
G
Tom Stovall
>Ghostwalker is the name, last not first so it aint really anonymous
Nope, "ghostwalker" is a monomial and monomials are synonymous with
anonymous in a country with roughly 270 million folks.
re: 'You seem to be implying that anyone who posts anonymously is a
pedophile; unless this is a confession of sorts, please be reminded that
YOU are posting anonymously. As Sigmund is said to have said, "Pardon me
sir, your slip is showing."...'
>you seem to be assuming facts not in evidence...
Not a chance! While posting anonymously under a monomial, you wrote:
"...let's put a stop to anonymously posting, no more hiding behind a
cute screen name." One hates to labor the obvious, but your use of a
monomial is obviously an attempt to remain anonymous in a binomial
society.
>i fail to see any implication on my part...
Think real hard. It'll come.
>and once again you assume I am posting anonymously...
Correction, I KNOW you are posting anonymously.
[...]
>I dont even want to get startd on Freud...
I should hope not, not after railing against anonymous posts, attempting
to tie anonymous posts to pedophilia, while apparently forgetting that
you, yourself, were posting anonymously. Sigmund was big on latency.
re: "Alas, I fear the Right Thinking Folks are once again at odds with
that troublesome First Amendment..." -TS
>stick to the anvil bangin and leave the political stuff to those who
>have your best intrest at heart
Thanks all the same, but nobody has more interest in my best interest
than me and nobody will do a better job of looking out for my best
interest than I will.
>not everone has an anglo-saxon name
So? The ethnic derivation of one's family and given name(s) is not
relevant a discussion of the effect on anonymity of monomial, binomial,
and polynomial nomenclature. At issue is anonymity and anyone attempting
to use a monomial while claiming they are not trying to remain anonymous
is most definitely not a logician and most probably having more than a
little trouble separating reality from fantasy.
ObH: no hay.
Equinimity
>>stop to anonymously posting,no more hiding behind a cute screen
>>name.This would stop the pedophiles from luring kids.Make them use
>>thier real names and addresses.and while we are at it lets not forget
>>vulgar language.
A thousand pardons. I was so annoyed, I forgot to sign my original potshot. My
name is Claudia Montague Wheatley, I live in upstate New York, I am a
semi-regular on this newsgroup, and I get mightily offended when someone tries
to rattle my cage with inane warnings about the safety and well-being of my
child, my mother, my sisters, and anyone else I hold dear. I feel no need to
hide from alarmists. And I don't go around luring kids, because I have enough
trouble with my own.
Claudia
"My motto is, Live and let live, or kiss my ass."
-Lynda Barry, "Cruddy"
Pet-Rights
against their will. The animals here are the ones harmed (physically and
psychologically).
This is not a matter of if it is done behind closed doors that it is ok.
Is it ok for pedophiles to do the same abuse to children behind closed doors?
Again another non-consenting being being abused and violated, then exploited
by the resulting pornography.
This is real, and time for it to be put to a halt!
Judy
ghostwalker
wrote:Tom Stoval anonymously posting as"Tom Stoval" wrote:
> anonymous, posting as "ghostwalker," wrote:
> >Ghostwalker is the name, last not first so it aint really
> anonymous
> Nope, "ghostwalker" is a monomial and monomials are synonymous with
> anonymous in a country with roughly 270 million folks.
> re: 'You seem to be implying that anyone who posts anonymously is a
> pedophile; unless this is a confession of sorts, please be
> reminded that
> YOU are posting anonymously. As Sigmund is said to have said,
> "Pardon me
> sir, your slip is showing."...'
> >you seem to be assuming facts not in evidence...
> Not a chance! While posting anonymously under a monomial, you
> wrote:
> "...let's put a stop to anonymously posting, no more hiding behind
> a
> cute screen name." One hates to labor the obvious, but your use of
> a
> monomial is obviously an attempt to remain anonymous in a binomial
> society
Modonna live in or are they trying to be anonymous too.
> >i fail to see any implication on my part...
> Think real hard. It'll come
> >and once again you assume I am posting anonymously...
> Correction, I KNOW you are posting anonymously.
> [...]
> >I dont even want to get startd on Freud...
> I should hope not, not after railing against anonymous posts,
> attempting
> to tie anonymous posts to pedophilia, while apparently forgetting
> that
> you, yourself, were posting anonymously. Sigmund was big on
> latency.
confession YOU would like to make... one wonders.
>
> re: "Alas, I fear the Right Thinking Folks are once again at odds
> with
> that troublesome First Amendment..." -TS
> >stick to the anvil bangin and leave the political stuff to those
> who
> >have your best intrest at heart
> Thanks all the same, but nobody has more interest in my best
> interest
> than me and nobody will do a better job of looking out for my best
> interest than I will.
> >not everone has an anglo-saxon name
> So? The ethnic derivation of one's family and given name(s) is not
> relevant a discussion of the effect on anonymity of monomial,
> binomial,
> and polynomial nomenclature. At issue is anonymity and anyone
> attempting
> to use a monomial while claiming they are not trying to remain
> anonymous
> is most definitely not a logician and most probably having more
> than a
> little trouble separating reality from fantasy.
world you live in.
> ObH: no hay.
obh :got plenty of hay and starting a new run in shed.
> Tom Stovall CJF
> Farrier & Blacksmith
> sto...@wt.net
> http://web.wt.net/~stovall
> Yo pienso, por eso, yo soy.
The greatest bar to knowledge is contemt prior to investigation
Joel B Levin
ghostwalker <sweetranc...@socket.net.invalid> wrote:
}what society is that exactly?Is that the same society that Cher and
}Modonna live in or are they trying to be anonymous too.
You mean Cher LaPierre Bono Allman (though I'm sure she doesn't use all the
names she's entitled to) and Madonna Louise Veronica Ciccone? They're hardly
anonymous, and when you're as famous as they are you can be recognized out of
your anonymity using just a single name, too.
/JBL
--
Nets: levin/at/bbn.com | Isn't that the beauty of complete unawareness?
or jbl/at/levin.mv.com| It's the very first thing you're unaware of.
or levinjb/at/gte.net |
ARS: KD1ON |
C.M.Newell
wrote:
>THe issue here, is that innocent "non-consenting" beings are being abused
>against their will. The animals here are the ones harmed (physically and
>psychologically).
>
Please provide us with a detailed explanation of exactly how
one determines "psychologiacl harm" to an animal involved in an act
of bestiality.
I, for one, could use some entertainment in this bleak month.
Ob horsey: almost doen with the h/j and dressage division class lists
for next summer's AHANE show.
--CMN,DVM
"The morning sun shall dawn again, but never more with thee
Shall I gallop o'er the desert paths , where we were wont to be;
Evening shall darken on the earth, and o'er the sandy plain
Some other steed, with slower step, shall bear me home again."
==The Arab's Farewell to His Steed
ghostwalker
Levin <j...@levin.mv.com> wrote:anonymously posting as "Joel B
Levin"wrote
G a.k.a.Ghostwalker,one of a tribe of many.
ASAIRS Administrator
brief information regarding some cases that involved EQUINES- several
in Agoura Calif, 6 dogs in another case, a mare who was also killed.
This should cover most of your questions and address some new ones:
This is a public domain FAQ file for free distribution as long as it is
used in it's original
form with out major editing or changes.
An HTML version is available upon request.
v.1.4 12-4-99
© 1997,1998,1999 all rights reserved
Bestiality and Zoophilia FAQ
Compiled by "Mike Rolland", ex zoophile, site
administrator and coordinator for
ASAIRS
The animal sexual abuse information and
resource sites
http://home.earthlink.net/~asairs/page3.html
http://members.aol.com/animalsav
Responding Effectively to Frequently Asked Questions About
bestiality, zoophilia, and sexual abuse of animals.
1. Introduction
2. What is zoophilia, zoosexuality and bestiality (inter-species
sexual assault) ?
3. What are the risks for the animals involved?
4. Do zoophiles prefer specific types of animals?
5. What can I do to prevent my animals from being abused?
6. Aren't these people just ill people who need help?
7. What are the laws on this, don't the laws on animal abuse already
cover this?
8. What can I do to help?
9. Contact information and links
Introduction
1. You have seen the evidence in your web browsing, perhaps you were
using a search engine to find information on animals or pets with your
child for a school project. You were shocked and embarrassed, then
outraged when you saw pages of links to web sites that were clearly
promoting sex with animals, and illegal pornography depicting this. You
thought that kind of abuse was just an old farm joke, but you quickly
realize you are finding more and more of this material in almost every
forum from IRC chats and web search engines to usenet newsgroups and
everything else.
You are not alone, more and more animal rights and welfare activists,
humane groups and pet owners have increasingly noticed bestiality and
zoophilia is far more common then they imagined. Until recently, the
issue was so taboo mainstream animal groups have not addressed this,
people didn't want to hear about it and it was considered a small side
issue that was not common.
This changed in March 1998 when "Mike", a recovering ex-zoophile began
efforts to change that after zoophiles appeared on the Jerry
Springer show promoting zoophilia. Then in January 1999 the Humane
Society of the US (HSUS) announced they were going after this
abuse with legislation after having investigated this issue for four
years and determining some 22 states had no laws against this in any
form!
The point was hammered home when several sexual assaults on animals
occurred within a fairly short time span which appeared in the media.
Here are just a few examples of those caught which I know of:
1. Buttons, June 1998 a mare in Boliver county Mississippi was
attacked in her barn by three males, one of whom was allegedly kicked
in the face. They retaliated by dragging her to death behind their
truck for one mile. (One suspect previously killed a dog in a
laundromat coin-op dryer for fun.)
2. Six dogs sexually abused, with internal injuries and infections,
Plumas County CA. Case #99-25182 Stephen R. and Aaron M. charged
with four felony counts of cruelty to animals and eight counts of
misdemeanor sexual assault.
3. Victorville California Brian C. June 24 1998 arrest, theft and
sexual attack on a horse, defendant with priors for sexual assaults on
other animals.
4. November, 1998 - Thonotosassa, Florida
5. November, 1998 - Hamilton, Montana also involved pedophilia
6. July 1998 - Janesville, Wisconsin, Barry H. priors included
pedophilia, torture and killing animals
7. July 1998 - Victorville, California, repeat offender on mares
8. July 1998 - Manatee Co., Florida, forced anal sex on a dog
9. October 1998 - Stillwater, Oklahoma
10. Feb. 2, 1998 - Juan A. California
11. February, 1997 - El Cajon, California, breaking and entering,
assaulting a horse, repeat offender
There have been numerous links between animal abuse and violence,
almost every serial
killer started by abusing/torturing/killing animals. The school
shootings and other random
shooting assaults were also committed by people who admitted abusing
animals.
This issue should be of special concern to parents and women's advocacy
groups with the
aspects of sexual assaults on animals being a possibly red flag for
future assaults on
women.
The pornography depicting bestiality is dehumanizing to women who are
depicted as sluts
and degraded for the amusement of male viewers.
What is zoophilia, bestiality, bestialist, and zoosexuality
(inter-species sexual assault)?
2.
The first and second term are essentially the same, as we see it on the
internet, zoophilia once meant simply, a love of animals, much as
the term: Gay once meant someone who was happy.
Zoosexuality, zoosexual and bestialist as words do not exist in any
dictionary, they are used by people who have sex with animals as a form
of
legitimizing this abuse, and to separate themselves from those who just
have sex with animals from those who claim a relationship with sex
included.
It all comes under the accepted definition of Bestiality.
Bestiality is the act of having sexual contact with an animal, it is
often an opportunistic form of gratification which was not very common,
but
today with the internet's instant communication it is rapidly becoming
the latest new fad or kinky interest activity for people to experiment
with.
One zoophile's web site alone featured over 2,000 personal ads from
people looking for information, to get together, or to acquire or
borrow an
animal to experiment with.
Animal activists helped shut this down along with many others, but new
ones appear weekly.
People known as zoophiles claim their activities are consentual, but
their paraphilia illness is similar to pedophilia, and like pedophiles
they
attempt to justify their activities.
People who practice this form of sexual activity appear to have many
background similarities to pedophiles: early childhood sexual abuse or
neglect, low self esteem, social problems, shyness and other aspects.
Both men and women do this, although it appears women engage in this
more frequently, that is misleading due to the enormous amount of
bestiality pornography made largely for the benefit of male viewers.
The most common abuser is a young male, roughly age 18 to mid 30s.
The Animals' Agenda , Volume 15, Number 6, pp 29-31 November/December
1995 Author: Carol J. Adams
(please see the section at the end for their contact information and
the complete article) has this to say:
"Bestiality: The Unmentioned
Abuse"
"..In the second kind, an animal becomes the exclusive focus of a
human's desires. Although many medical terms have been applied to a
fixation on gratification with animals, those who engage in this prefer
to be known as zoophiles, a word borrowed, ironically, from the animal
protection community. The zoophile's world view is similar to the
rapist's and child sexual abuser's. They all view the physical
gratifications they have with their victims as consensual, and they
believe it benefits their partners as well as themselves. "
"Just as pedophiles differentiate between those who abuse children and
those who love children-placing themselves, of course, in the latter
group-zoophiles distinguish between animal sexual abusers (bestialists)
and those who love animals (zoophiles). In each of these cases the
distinctions are only self-justifications. "
Kim Roberts, from the HSUS has
this to say:
"Many animal sexual abusers are similar to pedophiles. They'll defend
their actions by stating that their victims consent. The fact is, no
child or
animal is capable of consenting to sexual activity with an adult human
being, said Kim Roberts, MSW, manager of The HSUS' First Strike! TM
campaign."
Criminology Professor Piers Beirne calls this abuse: Inter-species
sexual assault Rethinking bestiality ISSN 1362-4806 Volume 1 #3 1997; pp
317- 340 Piers Beirne, professor of criminology, University of Southern
Maine, used with permission of the author
What are the risks to the animals involved?
3.
Some of the medical problems in the animals who are sexually abused
include both sexually intact as well as neutered and spayed dogs,
gelded or intact equines, mares and other animals.
The health risks includes, but is not limited to the following, some is
applicable to small animals only:
1. Vaginitus, either from bacteria or foreign substances used for
lube that do not belong there, an allergic reaction to human bodily
fluids,
tearing, or irritation from repeated frequent contact.
2. Urinary tract infections
3. Ascending vaginal infections which affect the bladder
4. Ascending vaginal infections resulting in a life threatening
medical emergency known as; pyometra- common in unspayed dogs
5. Spread of brucellosis from one infected animal to another through
sharing or successive contacts with the human acting as the carrier
between them. At special risk are boarding facilities
6. Marked dramatic increase in the risk for the animal to develop
mammary cancers, ovarian cancers, ovarian cysts, accidental pregnancy,
pyometra since these animals are preferred to be kept sexually
intact.
Benign prostatic enlargement, prostate infection, infection,
irritation or tearing of the penile sheath or penis, testicular and
prostatic
cancers.
7. Side effects may include behavioral problems such as: marking
(inappropriate urination indoors), fighting, and dominance displays on
the owner. All of which have been cited as main reasons people give up
pets to animal shelters!
Animals were designed by nature to have specific limited duration
breeding cycles with their own kind. Since most of the abuse concerns
dogs, I
will go into detail into that species, although much applies to all
mammals to various degrees.
The females come into breeding estrus twice per year, the rest of the
time the female in a period of diestrus for repair and rest. Females are
only drawn to the males for breeding, and can actively breed during a
limited time of each of these cycles.
Along comes someone who now through coercion, bribery, threats, or
dominance penetrates the female in her out of breeding cycles, and
does this repeatedly- perhaps on a daily basis.
Her being kept intact subjects her to the risk of pyometra, infections
and additional risks of cancers as mentioned previously. Would you be
surprised to know that a female dog spayed before her first breeding
cycle has virtually a zero percent chance of contracting pyometra,
uterine infections ovarian cancers, ovarian cysts, and mammary gland
cancers? One of the leading causes of death in this species is cancer,
especially mammary gland cancer. Males are at a much greater risk for
various cancers from being kept intact.
Two ANTI spay/neuter posts were distributed by zoophiles on
talk.politics.animals:
http://www.deja.com/threadmsg_ct.xp?AN=540932810
It includes mention of zoophiles going to animal shelters or rescue
groups for cheap animals.
Equines can be spooked by a stranger late at night in their quarters,
resulting in injury or even death, a special concern for boarding
facilities
and for valuable breeding animals.
Do zoophiles prefer specific types of
animals?
4.
The most common animal involved is the dog, both male and female,
spayed, neutered or not, but preferred to be intact. Some use their
intact dogs for pornographic or erotica films, encouraging their mixed
breeds to mate and produce litters while dogs are killed in animal
shelters
every hour.
I wish I could say spay/neuter would prevent zoophilism but it won't.
Although any breed is at risk, large breeds such as German Shepherds,
Golden retrievers, Akitas, Mastiff, St Bernards etc., are preferred.
Equine victims include both stallions and geldings as well as mares,
the favored animal is the miniature horse due to their size and lower
costs,
they can also be brought indoors.
Other animals are used in this fashion as well, less commonly the list
includes sheep, goats, raccoons, llamas, donkeys and even dolphins.
A human sexuality survey containing some 32,000 responses offer a good
clue as to the interest in and participation in bestiality, it is
greater
than pedophilia.
What can I do to prevent my animals from being
abused?
5.
What you can do to help prevent one of your animals winding up in their
hands;
Only offer spayed/neutered puppies, or have a good signed stiff contact
requiring it. Stallions should not be sold to random callers you don't
know, geld them before sale to anyone you don't know. Avoid selling
female animals to single men, this can be tricky, but since most
zoophiles
are single males, they are a much higher risk to sell to than a couple
who shows up with a five year old child. Be especially suspicious if
someone is unwilling to spay/neuter/geld and sidesteps questions as to
why.
Veterinarians and humane societies should have warning bells go off
especially when they suggest a routine spay/neuter/geld and the male
owner refuses to consider it, and won't say why! This is more so where
there is a large female animal involved. Likely a percentage of the men
who protest cutting male animals so avidly are in fact, engaging in
this abuse and are afraid the animal will no longer be able to
'perform'.
Some abusers are also involved in animal related fields, the psychology
in the media describing how pedophiles often take jobs at day-care
centers, in nursery schools, as teachers, coaches, churches and other
jobs that put them in direct contact with their victims. They all have a
direct authority over their victims which gains the trust and seclusion
they need. Zoophiles, like pedophiles, tend to seek animal (or child)
related jobs- veterinary assistants, humane society volunteers,
boarding facilities, as stable hands, grooms, dog groomers and
breeders, even
animal control officers. Those who prefer purebred animals usually
become involved with related groups, associations and the like.
There are just no clear-cut absolute signs that a person engages in
bestiality.
Aren't these people just ill people who need
help?
6.
Emphatically I say: no, as a former zoophile involved with the on-line
activities for over 3 years, I only know of only one person who wanted
to
get help besides myself. The pro zoophilia web sites and forums all
indicate a complete refusal to accept help or to change. Indeed just the
opposite message is clearly indicated: they don't want help and also
don't want legislation against this. They cite that the DMS IV mental
health
manual doesn't consider zoophilism to be a mental illness.
Psychiatrists are trained and paid to help human patients be happy and
accept themselves, they are not paid to protect animals! There are a
number of quotes from professionals regarding zoophilia
What are the laws on this, don't the laws on animal abuse
already cover this?
7.
The best up to date law page is on the HSUS web site (see ) The answer
is: no, many animal abuse laws do not cover this, and
the states that have bestiality laws include it only as sodomy and
morality issue, not an animal protection law.
Unless the text of the animal abuse law specifically mentions or
defines acts of sexual contact in some way, the court usually can't
decide it is
abuse and charge someone.
Currently, some 22 states have no laws on this at all, a fact that
caused the HSUS to get involved in the legislative aspects of this after
conduction investigations.
The penalties for bestiality as a sodomy issue range from a small fine
to 20 years and $50,000 fine and are rarely ever enforced.
Other countries have laws against bestiality, a couple of examples
include: the UK (Life in jail) Canada (10 years in jail) and Australia.
What can I do to help?
8.
A number of activists and I have been very successful in legally
removing web sites and forums promoting bestiality. That is opposed to
removing sites clearly offering pornography, those sites are usually
overseas and untouchable.
What is involved is simply contacting the web server host, usually:
postmaster@(The domain name here) and citing the contents of a web site
on their server violates their terms of service for content. Most all
ISP's in the USA forbid pornography, links to same, or promotion of
illegal
activities. We simply cite these items and that the HSUS has announced
zoophilia/bestiality is animal abuse and is promoting legislation. State
laws regarding sex with animals also can be cited along with any
graphic text on the site as an example of what is there.
This helps reduce the number of people accessing these forums to
acquire information and help to engage in bestiality, it also breaks
inter-site
hyper links and search engine indexing.
Activists may freely use any materials from my web site and distribute
them and information on this abuse to your various animal related
groups, clubs, friends, animal shelters, boarding facilities, pet
groomers and veterinarians.
Submit any of these items to animal related magazines and periodicals,
request that animal groups who have web sites add this issue and links
to their sites.
Contact your elected reps and show them this issue, ask that they look
into this and their laws.
9.
Helpful links and resources
http://www.hsus.org/current/state_laws.html
State Laws HSUS site
http://www.hsus.org/current/sexabuse_intro.html
Introduction to sex abuse HSUS site
http://www.hsus.org/current/statements.html
Statements from professionals regarding zoophilia HSUS site
http://igha.org/abuse.html#zoo
IGHA horse rescue page on zoophilia
http://home.earthlink.net/~asairs/article.html
http://members.aol.com/animalsav/article.html
Theoretical criminology article Article by Piers Beirne, professor of
criminology
http://www.teleport.com/~animals/violence.html
Violence starts with animal abuse Portland Humane Society page
http://www.survey.net/sex1r.html
Human sexuality survey results
http://members.aol.com/animalsav/deja2.html
Medical page Medical risks to animals
http://members.aol.com/animalsav/agenda.html
Bestiality: the unmentioned abuse Used with permission from:
http://www.animalsagenda.org
The animals agenda
http://members.aol.com/animalsav
http://home.earthlink.net/~asairs/page3.html
Main site Site devoted to this issue, with more files and information.
As I may move the site due to attacks, if anyone can't find the site
they may e-mail me at either of these:
"Mike Rolland":
anim...@aol.com
rollan...@hotmail.com
asa...@lawyer.com
ASAIRS Administrator
> search on an
> >>engine for pet/animal related material and have come across
> disgusting
> sites
> >>hosting "Bestiality Hard Core Pornography" displaying illegal
> images or
> movie
> >>clips with humans having sex with animals?
> >
> disgusting
> (not
> >to mention vulgur, thought that was a little obvious...). Ugh,
> makes you
> >wonder, sick people.
> you say it
> is. With the notion of abuse being debatable, just how is it that
> these
> things are sufficient to pass a law proscribing them?
> Do you figure, as do many marignal humans, that people should be
> prohibited
> from doing anything that doesn't please you? While here at the
> home we ,
> much like yourself, find this sort of thing most unpleasant and
> offputting,
> we am not harmed by it nor do we see than anyone else is harmed by
> it.
> Terry
Terry:
The material depicting humans and animals, including miniature horeses
by the way not only promotes the production of more, but it encourages
experimentation and fosters an environment of "Bestiality is okay
because it's all over the net and no one cares, and everyone is doing
it"
The porn material is already illegal by federal laws, they just are not
well enforced,
Mike
ASAIRS Administrator
spoke on the phone to one of the owners and obtained the "suspect" name
and additional details which I inserted below into the original article:
Thursday, June 17, 1999
Suspect arrested in assaults on horses
Daniel Bruce House was arrested for sodomizing horses
in Agoura.
AGOURA CA. -- A man (Daniel Bruce House) suspected of sexually
assaulting several
horses was arrested June 6 1999 by Los Angeles County
sheriff's deputies after horse owners along Cornell Road
told them their horses had been sodomized with unknown
instruments.
The suspect, Daniel Bruce House posted bail
There was a man arrested for, basically, bestiality, said Det.
Chris Germann of the Lost Hills Sheriff's Station.
At least three horses appear to have been assaulted. Germann
declined to discuss details of the ongoing investigation but said
the suspect could face felony charges of bestiality according to
the California penal code, as well as trespassing and vandalism.
Horse owners along Cornell Road have distributed fliers about
the attacks that name a suspect. They plan to hold a
neighborhood meeting June 28 to discuss ways to protect their
animals.
Patty Lucci, who lives in the 4000 block of Cornell Road, said
one of her two show horses was attacked.
Lucci said she realized something was wrong when she noticed
that Buddy, a 9-year-old gelding, had rope marks on his hind
legs, where he had apparently been tied up.
A horse owned by a neighbor across the street was also
victimized.
When I heard about the male (horse) across the street, I called
the vet, Lucci said. I'm alerting everybody that I know. If a horse
shows up with marks on his hind legs, check further. Lucci said
she does expect that Buddy will return to competition next year.
But until the investigation is completed, she rests uneasy.
I've got the barn lights on all night long, Lucci said. I've got the
floodlights on all night long. I'm getting very little sleep. I don't
know what else I can do except light the place up.Unfortunately,
said Sgt. Frank Bongiorno of the Los Angles County Animal
Care and Control, horses are sometimes more trusting than
other animals.
Dogs are usually going to growl, Bongiorno said. But horses
are usually much more approachable than a dog is, especially if
you're using food. And if they're already confined in a barn area,
they feel secure.
noting that they had a veterinarian look at the animal.
====================
Details provided via phone by one of the horse owners who attended the
community meeting on this case:
The accused is in jail, his name is Daniel Bruce House
He is a little retarded from a prior drug overdose (the commercial This
is your brain on drugs comes to mind and here is an example of what
happens!!!)
Daniel Bruce House has lived in that area all his life and ranchers in
the canyon all knew of his proclivity to molest animals.
House is very 'out' and tells people he has sex with horses and that
they consent and 'want it' ,
the horses were restrained by being tied up with a 4 point retraint
device, with which House said the horses had to be 'trained'
Daniel Bruce House's animals were seized and he was also charged with
neglect and lack of proper care, one pony was severely crippled.
A can of 'Ready Whip' was found and the mare it involved had bleeding
from a vaginal wound.
There was also some anal injury to a gelding.
Daniel Bruce House's two friends who apparantly had similar
proclivities or sympathy towards House's activities were going to post
the $8,000 bail for him but the judge set the bail much higher.
One of the friends has reportedly distributed bestiality videos and has
a record of violence
A segment on Fox News, Wednesday the 23rd of June was filmed by
Cristina Gonzalez,
a newsperson very sympathetic and open to animal rights causes was made
at a meeting of over 60 angry ranchers who attended over this issue.
The HSUS provided their animal sexual assault information packet to the
DA, prosecutor and to the people involved, the material was made
available to the 60+ people who attended the aforementioned meeting.
Mike
http://members.aol.com/animalsav
ghostwalker
(C.M.Newell) wrote:someone anonymously claiming to be a doctor of
veterinary medicine posting as "C.M.Newell" wrote:
> On Wed, 08 Dec 1999 16:40:05 -0800, ghostwalker
> <sweetranc...@socket.net.invalid> wrote:
> |
> >So you want to play in the deep end too.
> >G a.k.a.Ghostwalker,one of a tribe of many.
> person is going to use rapier-like wit on you. Or <gasp>
> *sarcasm*!!!
> --CMN,DVM
> "The morning sun shall dawn again, but never more with thee
> Shall I gallop o'er the desert paths , where we were wont to be;
> Evening shall darken on the earth, and o'er the sandy plain
> Some other steed, with slower step, shall bear me home again."
> ==The Arab's Farewell to His Steed
post.This board has a total lack of a sense of humor,you should never
take yourself to seriously,because nobody else does.What really scares
me is that people like you CMN are actually working on peoples
animals.Maybe if you spent less time on your net addiction and more
time being a DVM you might actually build a practice.Was that rapier
enough for you Doc.Everybody is a critic.This board does get just a
little dull every now and then. I mean how many times can you post
about treating thrush?So to all who will respond to this dont waste the
band width .Even this gets a little dull after one or two posts so I am
off to find another thread maybe someone has a new way to treat
thrush.So you all can fight amongst yourselves cause I'm outa here.
G
surrender to win
Charles A. Hall
<snip> The material depicting humans and animals, including miniature
horeses
> by the way not only promotes the production of more, but it encourages
> experimentation and fosters an environment of "Bestiality is okay
> because it's all over the net and no one cares, and everyone is doing
> it"
>
> The porn material is already illegal by federal laws, they just are not
> well enforced,
> Mike
>
Hasn't anyone ever heard of supervising their OWN kids instead of relying on
the government to do so? Mine go on the net when I say so, and the computer
is in an area where I can get a good look at the screen any time I wish.
Heck, they can't even sign onto the computer without my doing so first to
provide the password. Morals/values/ethics begin at home at an early age,
and it's not the government's responsibility, but the parents'.
Diane
Tom Stovall
[deletia in places]
re: '"ghostwalker" is a monomial and monomials are synonymous with
anonymous in a country with roughly 270 million folks...' -TS
> Did you make this the rule
The use of polynomials to distinguish individuals within a society has
been in existence since Og came down from the trees. Perhaps the news
hasn't reached your coven.
re: 'You seem to be implying that anyone who posts anonymously is a
pedophile; unless this is a confession of sorts, please be
reminded that YOU are posting anonymously. As Sigmund is said to have
said, "Pardon me sir, your slip is showing."...' -TS
>you make a great leap to conclusionville
Nope, you defined the parameters and you're posting anonymously. Simple
as that.
re: "While posting anonymously under a monomial, you wrote: ...let's put
a stop to anonymously posting, no more hiding behind a cute screen
name."
Just who dictates how many nomials you have to have???
Societal imperative. How many names are on your driver license?
re: "One hates to labor the obvious, but your use of a monomial is
obviously an attempt to remain anonymous in a binomial society...
>what society is that exactly?
Exactly? Any society.
>Is that the same society that Cher and Modonna live in or are they >trying to be anonymous too...
Try not to be overly thick. Want to guess how many names are on their
driver licenses?
re: "Think real hard. It'll come [the relationship of monomials to
anonymity].
>hummmmm still not there...
Keep at it. With any luck, a stray nervous impulse may escape the
fetters of your intransigence, leap across synapse or two, zip up that
final neuron, and give you a head slapping flash of insight.
re: "I KNOW you are posting anonymously..." -TS
> you ASSUME, big difference
Wrong, assumptions require extrapolation; in this case, the data are
self-evident and conclusive. No assumption is necessary.
re: Getting started on Freud. "I should hope not, not after railing
against anonymous posts, attempting to tie anonymous posts to
pedophilia, while apparently forgetting that you, yourself, were posting
anonymously. Sigmund was big on latency..." -TS
>it seems you were the one tying all this together...
Lemme see if I have this straight. You claimed a link between pedophiles
and anonymous posts while you, yourself, were posting anonymously. I
pointed out the obvious incongruity of your position, so I'm "tying all
this together?" Hold that thought.
re; "At issue is anonymity and anyone attempting to use a monomial while
claiming they are not trying to remain anonymous is most
definitely not a logician and most probably having more than a
little trouble separating reality from fantasy..."
>So by your logic posting as John Doe would not be anonymous...
Logically, anyone signing a post with a binomial may or may not be
posting anonymously, but a binomial offers the possibility of
authentication. On the other hand, the use of a monomials (i.e., "John"
or "Doe") is an obvious attempt to post under the cloak of anonymity
because each is impossible to authenticate in terms of being able to
differentiate one from anonther.
>strange world you live in.
I live in reality, doubtless a world quite different than yours.
ObH: no hay.
>The greatest bar to knowledge is contemt prior to investigation
What on earth is a "contemt?"
C.M.Newell
C.M.Newell
<asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>The material depicting humans and animals, including miniature horeses
>by the way not only promotes the production of more,
Heavens to Betsey! Anyone promoting the production of *more*
miniature horses should *definitely* be prosecuted!
C.M.Newell
knife.
sh...@ecn.ab.ca
: <snip> The material depicting humans and animals, including miniature
: horeses
: > by the way not only promotes the production of more, but it encourages
: Diane
Unfortunately most of the bitchers and whiners on this ng are too busy
doing their own thing, to properly parent.
--
Sheryl Huckaby
>Morals/values/ethics begin at home at an early age,
>and it's not the government's responsibility, but the parents'.
My 9 year old gets offended by nude paintings in antique stores. God Bless
him, he is a prude. My 7 year old already knows how to leer. Bestiality, as
other fetishes generally does not translate to another perversion, ie. a
zoophile is very generally not interested in homosexuality or pedophilia. I
wouldn't want them doing it to my horses and I probably wouldn't enjoy doing it
with animals (other than my husband) but I don't think it is going to pervert
my children.
Sheryl
Ashland City, Tennessee
If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate
something about your size? - Sydney J. Harris
Donna Pattee
ghostwalker <sweetranc...@socket.net.invalid> wrote:
>In article <384f0245...@news.rcn.com>, res...@deyr.ultranet.com
>(C.M.Newell) wrote:someone anonymously claiming to be a doctor of
>veterinary medicine posting as "C.M.Newell" wrote:
>> <sweetranc...@socket.net.invalid> wrote:
>> |
>> >So you want to play in the deep end too.
>> >G a.k.a.Ghostwalker,one of a tribe of many.
>> OOhh, Joel--I think you're supposed to be *scared* here. Maybe this
>> person is going to use rapier-like wit on you. Or <gasp>
>> *sarcasm*!!!
>> "The morning sun shall dawn again, but never more with thee
>> Shall I gallop o'er the desert paths , where we were wont to be;
>> Evening shall darken on the earth, and o'er the sandy plain
>> Some other steed, with slower step, shall bear me home again."
>> ==The Arab's Farewell to His Steed
>post.This board has a total lack of a sense of humor,you should never
>take yourself to seriously,because nobody else does.What really scares
>me is that people like you CMN are actually working on peoples
>animals.Maybe if you spent less time on your net addiction and more
>time being a DVM you might actually build a practice.Was that rapier
>enough for you Doc.Everybody is a critic.This board does get just a
>little dull every now and then. I mean how many times can you post
>about treating thrush?So to all who will respond to this dont waste the
>band width .Even this gets a little dull after one or two posts so I am
>off to find another thread maybe someone has a new way to treat
>thrush.So you all can fight amongst yourselves cause I'm outa here.
Now there's a threat to leave "us" shaking in our boots:
"I'm leaving this thread!"
Not the newsgroup, huh, just this thread?
ObHorsey: Anyone from the group taking any of their horses to the NWSS in
Denver either for the pre- stuff or for the regular horse shows? We're
going to be there without horses a couple of days, but if I knew when
people were showing, I'd arrange my schedule to go and see them.
Terry von Gease
>THe issue here, is that innocent "non-consenting" beings are being abused
>against their will. The animals here are the ones harmed (physically and
>psychologically).
Amazing in a single sentence you've managed to stuff the concepts of
innocence, consent, and abuse and attribute them as characteristics of some
unspecified non-human organism. Since each and every one of these terms is
inarguably a human construct, it would appear that this effort might well be
a contender for the record for the most anthropomorphism jamed into a small
space.
>This is not a matter of if it is done behind closed doors that it is ok.
You confuse the concepts of something being harmful and something being
socially unacceptable.
>
>Is it ok for pedophiles to do the same abuse to children behind closed
doors?
Even as desperately as you would want it to be so, children and non-humans
are not equivalent.
> Again another non-consenting being being abused and violated, then
exploited
>by the resulting pornography.
Another? Once again you presume that the concept of consent has any
application outside of the human species. Tossing in the previously
unmentioned concepts of violation and exploitation, you have managed to
misuse five, count 'em, five exclusively human constructs. You could be a
real contender.
>
>This is real, and time for it to be put to a halt!
Do you have some reason more telling that merely because you don't like it?m
It's fine for you not to like this sort of thing. Here at the home, we also
find this manner of sport high on the big index of disgusting. But simply
being disgusting is not sufficient reason to enact legislation. If it were
then any urchin caught eating a booger ought to be broken on the rack and
the lumpy porkers strutting about in spandex should be put to death.
Before you rush out and petition the apparatus for Yet Another Law, it might
be a Good Idea to be able to show that some not insignificant portion of the
population, human population, is somehow harmed by whatever it is you want
to enjoin others from doing.
Andrew Leech
[snip entire article]
"Oh no! It's the Mike and Judy Show"
Committed masochists may care to peruse the dejanews archives of inter alia
talk.politics.animals & rec.equestrian where this subject has been thrashed
to death. The only reason it keeps reappearing is because "Mike" and "Judy"
think we should spend all our waking lives worrying about it, and post monthly
reminders.
Andrew
--
Andrew Leech
Email: a dotte leech atte uea dotte ac dotte uk - U no Y !
Biological Sciences * All opinions personal
University of East Anglia *
Norwich * "I don't like it so you can't do it"
England * - New Labour Proverbs Ch1, V1.
Don Bruder
(Andrew Leech) wrote:
: In article <164c000c...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com>,
asa...@earthlink.net says...
: [snip entire article]
:
: "Oh no! It's the Mike and Judy Show"
:
: Committed masochists may care to peruse the dejanews archives of inter alia
: talk.politics.animals & rec.equestrian where this subject has been thrashed
: to death. The only reason it keeps reappearing is because "Mike" and "Judy"
: think we should spend all our waking lives worrying about it, and post monthly
: reminders.
The funniest part is that if you do the research, you'll find out that the
"Mike" involved is one fo a series of several dozen psuedonyms used by a
supposedly reformed practitioner of that which he rails so strongly
against, and his supposed wife, "Judy", is purely a figment of his own
imagination.
One has to wonder at how serious the "problem" is when the main agitator
is an individual ostracized by the (apparently rather small to begin with)
group he's trying to stamp out, and has to resort to deceit to garner any
sympathy for his cause.
Yep, this one's a real winner.
--
--
Don Bruder - Dak...@primenet.com
Horseman by day, 'net-freak by night. What a contrast, eh?
Jesus saves sinners. And redeems them for valuable prizes.
Patricia Schwalm
: The material depicting humans and animals, including miniature horeses
: by the way not only promotes the production of more, but it encourages
: experimentation and fosters an environment of "Bestiality is okay
: because it's all over the net and no one cares, and everyone is doing
: it"
Geez, drop the internet-bashing already. Bestiality has been
around since the beginning of time. Where do you think the
term "cow-poke" came from? My father-in-law related stories
of "stump cows" from his youth as a (real) cowboy. If Bossie
finds this demeaning and stressful, she'd just walk *away*.
If there are lots of pix on the net, then a few neophytes
were probably saved from Dobbin's well-placed kick. ;-)
I checked out your website, and got a warning from my
computer that I'd better not download anything. The
topics looked more purient than concerned, so I didn't.
Equinimity
>brief information regarding some cases that involved EQUINES- several
>in Agoura Calif, 6 dogs in another case, a mare who was also killed.
>This should cover most of your questions and address some new ones:
Oh, no, not a **FAQ**!!!! You might as well give up now, folks; if it's in a
FAQ, it must be true--that's why it's the most powerful debating tool known to
mankind!
Claudia Montague Wheatley
in Central New York
Terry von Gease
<12bbc47e...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com>...
>Okay Terry, I will post a FAQ on this, in addition it includes some
>brief information regarding some cases that involved EQUINES- several
>in Agoura Calif, 6 dogs in another case, a mare who was also killed.
>This should cover most of your questions and address some new ones:
...a massive monument to self serving rhetoric mercifully deleted...
Perhaps on your homeworld things are different but in most villages here on
Urth it is generally frowned upon to punish someone for what they might do.
We usually reserve punishment for those that have actually done something.
There is not one whit of differencebetween enjoining someone from doing X
because you subscribe to some system or another in which X just naturally
leads to Y and rounding up and incarcerating any and all individuals
exhibiting some phreneological feature or another because specimens with
this feature seem to spend a lot of time knocking over convenience stores.
Or whatever their special crime might be.
No matter how disgusting you might find something, this in and of itself, is
not sufficient reason to force whatever it is that you find distasteful to
alter its behavior merely to accomodate your sensibilities. You really ought
to first show that you are actually harmed by whatever it is you want to
stop. Not could be, not might be, and not someone else. You.
Don't misunderstand, here at the home we figure that anyone seeking
gratification via congress with a representative of some species other than
its own probably eats its own boogers, uses Miracle Whip, and most
certainly doesn't have its tray table locked in the upright position. But as
repulsive as we find it, we fail to see just what is harmed by it.
Lets say that you were to fall upon a convenient mare and have your way with
her. Know her in the biblical sense. Is your ego so inflated that you think
the the beast is even aware of your tender minstrations? Are you familiar
with the typical dimensions of the member normally pressed into such
service? If she were the least bit annoyed at or most likely even aware of
your fumblings she'd probably fire you into the next time zone.
Have at it, sport.
ASAIRS Administrator
Snip of the zoophile's post
> Andrew
> Andrew Leech
Thanks for expressing youself Andrew, I need to use this space so your
message was "lost" in the shuffle.
Here was part of the text concerning a case involving a mare:
REWARDS OFFERED FOR HORSE KILLER'S ARREST
Monday, June 29, 1998
GREENVILLE -- A national animal rights organization is joining local
authorities in their efforts to find suspects in the June 11 sodomy and
killing of a horse.
Officials with People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals (PETA) say
they
will offer an additional $500 reward for information leading to the
arrest
and conviction of those responsible for killing the horse, which
belonged to
a couple in Boyle.
There is already a $10,000 reward being offered.
``This case is so extremely disturbing that we thought we may be able
to help
put somebody behind bars,'' said Michael McGraw, a spokesman for the
Norfolk,
Va.-based organization.
The horse, named Buttons, was apparently sodomized in its stable, then
pulled
down a road by a vehicle for at least a mile.
PETA officials believe there is a definite link between animal abuse and
human abuse, which they say is one reason it is imperative that those
responsible are found.
``In most recent cases of violence in our schools, most of the boys
involved
had bragged about torturing and killing animals,'' said McGraw.
Daphna Nachminovitch, a cruelty caseworker with PETA, said ``research in
psychology and criminology shows that people who get away with violent
acts
toward animals don't stop there.
``Sociopathic criminals who hurt and kill people almost invariably abuse
animals first.'
<p>
Meanwhile, local investigators are still waiting for a break in the
case.
``We've got some stuff we're working on,' said Murray Roark,
investigator
with the Bolivar County Sheriff's Department. ``We feel like we're
traveling
in the right direction.''
He wouldn't discuss the details of the investigation, but he did say
there
could be a breakthrough in the next week.
Investigators have the fingerprints taken from butter tubs that were
apparently used to lure the horse into the stable.
The maximum penalty for the charges of sodomy and cruelty to animals is
10
years in prison.
[in that state, one of 24 that have any laws on bestiality]
The following is a listing of the facts as known to us on the Buttons
mare zoophile sexual abuse and killing case in Mississippi;
The evidence:
1. A dead horse, cruelly injured, dragged behind a truck a mile from
her
home barn. In the barn are found:
2. Two plastic butter tubs with traces of sugar on the inside, and
fingerprints on the outside.
3. Traces of sugar
in the feed bins in two stalls.
4. An overturned bucket in one of
those stalls- one normally empty.
5. An older mare in the other stall
with sugar in it.
6. A jagged cut on the face of one suspect.
The animals:
1. Gypsy, the older mare, described as
gentle and
patient; one you would trust with children and pregnant women
2. Buttons, an energetic three-year-old given to kicking when
displeased.
According to Doll Stanley-Branscum, the IDA investigating person,
and Button's owner; Terry , as well as 'Kat' at the local humane
society,
this is what the evidence seems to point to as to what happened;
In the dark of night, an isolated barn, the juveniles exit
their vehicle parked close to the barn
Carrying butter tubs of sugar, they enter the barn,
They first go the Gypsy's stall and pour one container of sugar into her
feed bunker. They then proceed, perhaps with the aid of an overturned
bucket, to attempt sexual molestation--one or more of them.
Then they go to Buttons' stall and, for some reason, move her to a
different, empty stall. They give her the other tub of sugar, place the
bucket upside down behind her, and attmpt to continue.
Butttons objects strenuously, injuring one of the three in the face.
This angers him and, perhaps, his companions. For revenge, they lead
Buttons outside, tie her behind the vehicle, and drag her to death.
THE SUSPECTS: Two of the supposed group of three are pretty much
non-entities in the reports, as the third is the basis for a widespead
belief in the community that a coverup took place in this case.
Go back a few years: four young men enter a laundromat one warm
night.
While they are doing whatever they came in for, a dog wanders in. The
group tease the dog. The dog snaps or snarls or does something else the
men don't like. The youngest of the group (already a father at age 15)
grabs the dog and throws it into a clothes dryer. (Doll told me the
original report that it was a microwave oven was a misundestanding.)
Another of the group inserts a quarter into the coin slot. The dog is
burned to death. Of these, the three older ones
are convicted of malicious mischief and animal cruelty, and are
sentenced to community service. The youngest one is let off due to
status as a juvenile.
This youngest one is the only one of the above four suspected in the
Buttons case. He is the one who had the cut on his cheek. He has quite
a long juvie record for other rotten behavior. He tore up a rival
school's football field with his 4WD pickup and was expelled from his
school for it (his parents are suing the school district). His pickup
was nowhere to be seen for two weeks after Buttons' killing; many
suspect she damaged the rear bodywork and he had it out of sight, being
repaired. He is also the nephew of the sheriff's investigator
assigned to the Buttons case.
What the police did, and didn't do:
According to my call to the investigator, and the owner- the vet did
NOT do a necropsy on
Buttons.
The vet only took a post mortem vaginal fluid sample which of course
is a shot in the dark as far as evidence. The mare's extreme duress
during her abuse and killing would surely have resulted in her voiding
and urinating involuntarilly, and flushing any evidence out.
The owners suggested testing Gypsy for semen
traces, but nobody did despite the evidence.
One of the suspects being related to the sheriff's investigator
assigned to
the case when it happened last summer sheds a light of coverup.
The police did not attempt to match the cut on the suspect's face to
Buttons' hooves. The police did not take forensic evidence from their
clothing, floors of their vehicles, or other places which might have
proved the suspects were in that barn. Note, however, that it is quite
possible that Buttons' hooves were so damaged during the dragging that
no match could have been made, anyway.
Doll Stanley-Branscom commented on that during our conversation that if
those
three had been convicted of bestialiy, they could have received
Five years and up to five thousand dollars. Mississippi is one of 24
states
that have such a law, the rest don't.
Here is what the *owners* stated on the phone:
1) There are two vets in their town, only one handles livestock and
large animals, the other handles small animals and pets.
2) The vet is a *cousin* of the police investigator Murray, assigned to
the case. Anthony M. was the one who was being prosecuted for the crime
and is a nephew of the police investigator.
3) The mare owner's father witnessed the vet taking a fluid sample from
the one mare, and that the vet stated to him the mare had been sexually
molested and was also torn in the vaginal area, somewhat unlikely of an
area to be injured even when dragged.
4) When the identity of the accused came to light, the owners of the
mare were unable to get any more information from the vet regarding the
fluid sample, and their calls were dodged.</P>
5) The boy according to the mare's owner: Anthony's whole cheek, eye
and side of his forehead were black and blue from a blow injury of some
kind from the 1250# mare.
6) The barn was chained shut, the boys broke in.
7) The prosecutor was going to push the molestation issue untill it was
discovered who the suspect was, nephew of the police chief investigator
with a vet who was the investigator's cousin.
That is all we have on the case so far.
Our deepest sympathies to the owners of Buttons
Update: The statute of limitations has expired, so the young "man" will
never be charged, never serve time, pay restitution or in any way be
treated for his psychological problems.
The next victim of his may be a person, or maybe a classroom full of
kids at the next school shooting?
==================
Some research found this information I thought I'd share on serial
murderers and their engagement in bestiality, incest, rape and murders:
Henry Lee Lucas killed numerous animals and had sex with their corpses.
He
killed his mother, common law wife and an unknown number of people.
By the time he was thirteen, Henry was almost completely obsessed by
sex. He began to trap animals so that he could use them in his private
sexual rituals, often torturing them to death. Bestiality became normal
behaviour.
The day after his release, Henry bragged of raping his twelve-year-old
niece. For the next nine months, he worked as a farm hand,learning
various skills until he was picked up for breaking and entering a
second time.
Peter Kurten Case:
..tortured dogs, and practiced
bestiality while killing the animal. Murdered or attempted to murder
over 50
men, women and children
At the age of nine, Kurten befriended a dogcatcher who lived in the
same house, a degenerate who showed him how to masturbate and torture
dogs. Whereas a normal child would have reacted with emotional recoil
to this influence, the boy welcomed the friendship and a powerful and
most significant bond developed.
The sexual urges were developing rapidly and Kurten was soon committing
bestiality on sheep and goats in the nearby stables. It was quickly
discovered that he had his most powerful sensation when he stabbed a
sheep as he had intercourse, an act that was performed with increasing
frequency.</b>
Serial murderer information is highlighted from longer case history and
background information available at and curtesy of:
http://crimelibrary.com/
http://crimelibrary.com/serial2/kurten/4.htm
ASAIRS Administrator
<psc...@abel.math.luc.edu> wrote:
> ASAIRS Administrator <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> : The material depicting humans and animals, including miniature
> horeses
> : by the way not only promotes the production of more, but it
> encourages
> : experimentation and fosters an environment of "Bestiality is okay
> : because it's all over the net and no one cares, and everyone is
> doing
> : it"
> Bestiality has been
> around since the beginning of time. Where do you think the
> term "cow-poke" came from?
>My father-in-law related stories
> of "stump cows" from his youth as a (real) cowboy.
Your father-in-law was a cow poker?
> I checked out your website, and got a warning from my
> computer that I'd better not download anything.
Must be your "net nanny" software because there is nothing on *my* site
to download, no ftp, no cookies either
and only a java script scrolling news box, along with background music.
There is a seperate window that auto opens with the standard warning
that the text and subject is for those who are adults, and to continue
you have to click on the link there.
Mike
ASAIRS Administrator
http://members.aol.com/animalsav
If you think cow poking is a joke, how about this zoophile's
instruction guide on how to "visit" other people's animals in the dead
of night and how to avoid being caught by watching their house and even
calling to check?
From the complete item below this should be of interest:
==============
Beware of cars. Assume that every car that passes is
a cop."
"Don't be afraid of asking the owner for help if you
have been kicked, injured, or are very cold. It is
much better to be charged for trespassing than to
bleed or freeze to death."
"A good way of not being caught is to know that the
owners are out for while. I like to find out as much
as possible about the owners and their movement
habits. I look at the house and see if the pattern of
lights has or has not changed for about two hours. If
the lights haven't changed I give them a call to see
if their is anyone at home and ask for some bullshit
person is
home. If no answer I go on with the visit. Also no tire
tracks in the snow is a dead giveaway that they
aren't home."
===
Equipment for zooish activities in the winter
By
squ...@rocketmail.com
In This file I will give examples of the thing that I
use when I "Go For A Walk" There are many files
devoted to the practices and methods of Zoophiles,
This file examines the equipment that our zoo
community uses during the long cold Maine winter.
Enjoy!
squ...@rocketmail.com
1. Warm clothes
coat, not usually worn on street, preferably black
Warm hat
Dark work pants or jeans
Two layers of thick socks, For extra warmth and
padding for that misplaced hoof.
Thermal underwear, Top and bottom
I don't recommend a raincoat for bad whether, it
tends to make noise.
Many pairs of gloves, The last thing your lover needs
shoved up her [SNIP] is a cold pair of hands.
A few T-shirts provide added padding from love bites.
A sweater or a equivalent warm shirt.
Knee, elbow, and shin pads worn under clothes. To aid
in comfort and protection.
Heavy boots, Preferbly with a steel toe so you will
not mash your toes.
2. Tools of the trade
A black 5 gallon bucket, I have found that the bucket
should have its handle removed to reduce noise. There
in nothing louder than a 5 gallon bucket rolling down
hill. The handle banging into the side of the bucket
while you are trying to run after it. With your
pants down to your ankles!
lubricants, I have successfully used lubricants to
make life easier and more comfortable. I have used
some of these; egg-white, aloe vera gel, watered down
ky, and good old spit, and whatever you do KEEP IT
WARM!
Urine, During deer hunting season go to Kmart and buy
some "Doe In Heat" deer urine. Last year I got a few
bottles and a gelding that I was visiting seemed to
take a intrest in the stuff. Granted it was not of
the same species but judging by the size of his
erection he didn't seem to mind.
Food, Anything that they would consider a treat. like
apples, carrots, bread, breakfast cereal, coke,
Pepsi. or anything else that you can think of that
they don't get normally.
A wash cloth, I don't know about you but it isn't one
of my favorite things to be sucking on a mares [SNIP]
and find my mouth running into a layer of [SNIP] . Make
sure that the wash cloth is made of cotton and it is
warm. They don't appreciate a cold wash cloth rubbing
their nether regions.
Flashlight, I don't recommend the use of a
flashlight, It tends to bring attention. Use an
Indiglow watch.
A Condom, It doesn't hurt to rubber up.
Never carry identification, If you drop it they will
know who Has been screwing with the horses.
A thermos bottle, carry warm/hot water in it to aid
in washing and warming chilled hands.
A towel, to aid in washing and cleaning her up after
you are done.
Decongestant, Take some of these an hour before you
go out. It really sucks when you can't stop coughing
and the owners are outside investigating.
A backpack, Use the smallest one you can find to
carry every thing you need.
A first aid kit
Snake bite kit, South west only.
Breath mint, Use your imagination!
3. So have you been caught?
These are some things to bring with you to look more
natural.
A fishing pole and maybe some fish.
A bike, It is helpful if the paddock is near some
trails.
A pair of binoculars and a wildlife guide book or a
star chart for night time use.
A shovel, Just say you were burying a dead cat. Use
this one only once.
A pair of cross country skis
If you are caught but they didn't see anything, about
the only thing they can charge you with is trespassing.
Beware of cars. Assume that every car that passes is
a cop.
Don't be afraid of asking the owner for help if you
have been kicked, injured, or are very cold. It is
much better to be charged for trespassing than to
bleed or freeze to death.
A good way of not being caught is to know that the
owners are out for while. I like to find out as much
as possible about the owners and their movement
habits. I look at the house and see if the pattern of
lights has or has not changed for about two hours. If
the lights haven't changed I give them a call to see
if their is anyone at home and ask for some bullshit
person is
home. If no answer I go on with the visit. Also no tire
tracks in the snow is a dead giveaway that they
aren't home.
ASAIRS Administrator
<t...@rose.hp.com> wrote:
> ASAIRS Administrator wrote in message
> <12bbc47e...@usw-ex0101-008.remarq.com>...
> some
> >brief information regarding some cases that involved EQUINES-
> several
> >in Agoura Calif, 6 dogs in another case, a mare who was also
> killed.
> >This should cover most of your questions and address some new
> ones:
> not sufficient reason to force whatever it is that you find
> distasteful to
> alter its behavior merely to accomodate your sensibilities. You
> really ought
> to first show that you are actually harmed by whatever it is you
> want to
> stop.
Did you even read the cases about the mares who were sexually
assaulted, especially by the dude in Agoura or did you skip over that
part Terry? Any of them could have been YOUR animals.
> repulsive as we find it, we fail to see just what is harmed by it.
Read the case info about the mares who were injured.
> Lets say that you were to fall upon a convenient mare and have
> your way with
> her. Know her in the biblical sense. Is your ego so inflated that
> you think
> the the beast is even aware of your tender minstrations? Are you
> familiar with the typical dimensions of the member normally pressed
into
> such service?
Put another way, what if said mare was your champion brood mare you
have tens of thousands of bucks invested in and a developing foal, what
if she was sexually assaulted at 3 AM unknown to you, and the dude
gives her a serious bacterial infection from his dirty hands and the
foreign substances he used for "lube", and now you have a major vet
bill, no idea why your animal is ill, and the foal is lost as a result-
costing you more money.
Hit closer to home now?
>If she were the least bit annoyed at or most likely even
> aware of
> your fumblings she'd probably fire you into the next time zone.
Wel l that sounds good in theory, but then can you explain how
"Buttons" the mare was dragged to death by 3 boys in a pickup truck in
Mississippi, and how several mares involved in sexual assaults by
Danial Bruce House of Agoura Calif also submitted to his attacks and he
was not 'fired into the next time zone." ?
I believe he always used three point restraints, gee those hooves
didn't do much good then did they?
From the longer article, some highlights:
AGOURA -- A man suspected of sexually assaulting several
horses was arrested June 6 by Los Angeles County
sheriff's deputies after horse owners along Cornell Road
told them their horses had been sodomized with unknown
instruments.
( WHAT HAPPENED to those lethal hooves that it's claimed mares always
can defend
themselves with against such attacks?? they must have wanted it I guess
since they "consented" to it by NOT kicking Mr House into the next
county)
"There was a man arrested for, basically, bestiality," said Det.
Chris Germann of the Lost Hills Sheriff's Station.
At least three horses appear to have been assaulted.
Patty Lucci, who lives in the 4000 block of Cornell Road, said
one of her two show horses was attacked.
Lucci said she realized something was wrong when she noticed
that Buddy, a 9-year-old gelding, had rope marks on his hind
legs, where he had apparently been tied up.
A horse owned by a neighbor across the street was also
victimized.
(EVEN Geldings are not safe)
one of the other dozen horses on the property was molested.
"One was attacked on our property and molested with
implements because there was some bleeding," Reeves said,
noting that they had a veterinarian look at the animal. "The
horse's legs were hobbled. They couldn't have done those
injuries to themselves."
=====
Back to you Terry.
Bill Kambic
<snipped>
>Did you even read the cases about the mares who were sexually
>assaulted, especially by the dude in Agoura or did you skip over that
>part Terry? Any of them could have been YOUR animals.
Some human who "molests" one of my mares will find themselves on the receiving end of
summons and complaint. And, in the end, I will own a lot of what they, now, own.
>
>> repulsive as we find it, we fail to see just what is harmed by it.
>
>Read the case info about the mares who were injured.
Then you sue the bastards and make them stand responsible for the damages.
>
>Put another way, what if said mare was your champion brood mare you
>have tens of thousands of bucks invested in and a developing foal, what
>if she was sexually assaulted at 3 AM unknown to you, and the dude
>gives her a serious bacterial infection from his dirty hands and the
>foreign substances he used for "lube", and now you have a major vet
>bill, no idea why your animal is ill, and the foal is lost as a result-
>costing you more money.
>Hit closer to home now?
As said above, sue the bastards.
>Wel l that sounds good in theory, but then can you explain how
>"Buttons" the mare was dragged to death by 3 boys in a pickup truck in
>Mississippi, and how several mares involved in sexual assaults by
>Danial Bruce House of Agoura Calif also submitted to his attacks and he
>was not 'fired into the next time zone." ?
Dragging a mare behind a truck and sexual gratifcation are pretty widely separated
activities. In either case the perps commit a civil offense by damaging property that
does not belong to them (and, it might be well to remember here that horses are chattels).
The dragging incident would clearly be abuse and it would probably be a crime under local
law.
>
>I believe he always used three point restraints, gee those hooves
>didn't do much good then did they?
You can train a horse to stand for just about anything (watch the "stewarding" that often
occurs while Walking Horses are inspected at shows). Training one to stand to be
"serviced" by a human would be no big deal.
This has been thrashed out here on a regular basis. Maybe you should review Deja for
further information.
Bill Kambic, Bright Star Farm, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Style, Stamina, Symmetry, Smoothness
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/1816
Sheryl Huckaby
>
>Dragging a mare behind a truck and sexual gratifcation are pretty widely
>separated
>activities. In either case the perps commit a civil offense by damaging
>property that
>does not belong to them (and, it might be well to remember here
It is also not legal to drag black men behind trucks but sometimes it happens.
Bad people do bad things.
Tralrdr
>the government to do so? Mine go on the net when I say so, and the computer
>is in an area where I can get a good look at the screen any time I wish.
>Heck, they can't even sign onto the computer without my doing so first to
>and it's not the government's responsibility, but the parents'.
>
Well said! Whatever happened to being responsible for what you have created?
Watch what your kids are doing, don't just turn them loose on the net, you
wouldn't expect them to drive a car without instruction or direction, would
you? Why do people just turn their kids loose and leave them is beyond me.
When did this nation become such a helpless whining bunch of blamers? It's
always someone elses fault, or the Governments responsibility to take care of
us. Puh Leeze. Monitor yourself, and do not try to moralize society. Sweep
your own doorstop before trying to get me to sweep it!
Crap, I can't believe the stuff I am seeing nowdays.
CArrie N Miller
Bill Kambic
<an astute observation that I have snipped>
Living in a free society is the toughtest way there is to live. You get to decide how to
live, you get to reap the burdens/benefits of those decisions. If you don't like this
system, move to North Korea. Don't try to move North Korea here.
"You make them make too many decisions! With me there is only one: OBEY!" Calvera, "The
Magnificent Seven"
Sheryl Huckaby
>Patty, [OB-ontopic:] whose pet of choice would be an anteater. ;-)
Not to be presumptious but the best thing to do away with the ant problem (and
the only thing I ever found that worked) is to spray them & their trails with
Windex. It has worked on some of the worst ant problems that I have seen.
Patricia Schwalm
: (C.M.Newell) wrote:
:>
:> Heavens to Betsey! Anyone promoting the production of *more*
:>miniature horses should *definitely* be prosecuted!
: Good Lord, yes!! Why would anyone want a miniature horse when they
: could buy a big dog instead? At least big dogs have a known purpose in
: life!
Now, now, go to: http://homepages.luc.edu/~pschwal/
and click on the photo of me driving a mini. The guy we bought
our Morgans from had a pair, and the *cutest* miniature hay
rack/double harness. Alas, it *was* a chore hitching them
up, and the one time we did it was the one time I didn't have
a single camera with me. My daughter and her friends had
a blast, though. A golden memory.
: Horses are beasts of burden. A mini is worth nothing except a feed bill.
Minis can founder on a dry lot. 8-( That's why Art got rid of
his.
John Hasler
Injuring an animal is abuse. Whether it is done as part of a bizarre
attempt at sexual congress or as part of an inept training procedure is
irrelevant.
> Put another way, what if said mare was your champion brood mare you have
> tens of thousands of bucks invested in and a developing foal, what if she
> was sexually assaulted at 3 AM unknown to you, and the dude gives her a
> serious bacterial infection from his dirty hands and the foreign
> substances he used for "lube", and now you have a major vet bill, no idea
> why your animal is ill, and the foal is lost as a result- costing you
> more money. Hit closer to home now?
No. I would file criminal trespass and vandalism charges against him, and
sue him for damages. If the mare was injured I would file animal abuse
charges. Whether he messed with my mare to satisfy his sexual urges or his
scientific curiosity is irrelevant.
> ...and how several mares involved in sexual assaults by Danial Bruce
> House of Agoura Calif also submitted to his attacks and he was not 'fired
> into the next time zone." ?
Perhaps you should go back and read what Terry actually wrote. Most likely
the mares submitted to his "assaults" because they did not find them
sufficiently annoying to bother kicking the crap out of him. Most horses
do not share your religion.
> A man suspected of sexually assaulting several horses was arrested June 6
> by Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies after horse owners along Cornell
> Road told them their horses had been sodomized with unknown instruments.
Sounds like trespass and vandalism to me.
> "There was a man arrested for, basically, bestiality"
And charged, no doubt, with trespass and vandalism.
> Buddy, a 9-year-old gelding, had rope marks on his hind legs, where he
> had apparently been tied up.
Trespass, vandalism, and animal abuse. All illegal under existing law.
> "One was attacked on our property and molested with implements because
> there was some bleeding,"
Trespass, vandalism, and animal abuse. All illegal under existing law.
I think that you know very well that all of your horrific examples are
crimes under existing law. You are using them quite deliberately in an
effort to generatee support for your real agenda, which is to suppress
activities that are neither illegal nor abusive but to which you have
religious objections.
--
John Hasler
jo...@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
ASAIRS Administrator
wrote:
> > Read the case info about the mares who were injured.
> Injuring an animal is abuse. Whether it is done as part of a
> bizarre
> attempt at sexual congress or as part of an inept training
> procedure is
> irrelevant.
> > Put another way, what if said mare was your champion brood mare
> you have
> > tens of thousands of bucks invested in and a developing foal,
> what if she
> > was sexually assaulted at 3 AM unknown to you, and the dude
> gives her a
> > serious bacterial infection from his dirty hands and the foreign
> > substances he used for "lube", and now you have a major vet
> bill, no idea
> > why your animal is ill, and the foal is lost as a result-
> costing you
> > more money. Hit closer to home now?
> No. I would file criminal trespass and vandalism charges against
> him, and
> sue him for damages. If the mare was injured I would file animal
> abuse
> charges.
That sounds like a plan, but you would have to show proof of what kind
of monitary loss there was, and tresspass often carries little more
than a fine or probation. Some injuries don't show immediately, or to
the eye as in the case of bacterial infections. What about brucellosis
being spread from one infected animal
to another with the human acting as the intermediate transference.
So then what recourse do you have? does this mean then the guy pays a
$50 fine, essentially a slap on the wrist, then does the same thing to
your neighbor and the people down the road?
What about mandatory psychological TREATMENT and intervention paid for
at his expense, with removal of any animals he owns and prohibition
from owning animals, working with or for a place that has animals?
That is part of the proposed legislation the Humane Society put forth
on this to add this abuse to existing animal abuse/cruelty laws.
The key is it would be a crime of animal abuse which would then carry
the penalty as above,and the important psychological treatment to
hopefully prevent a recurrence.
>Whether he messed with my mare to satisfy his sexual
> urges or his
> scientific curiosity is irrelevant.
You would feel rightly angered and violated, you might even be
inclined to give him the two barrels in the knees like a horse owner in
Washington state did to such a person messing with his animals several
times.
The owner even had a restraining order in effect but it did no good.
> > ...and how several mares involved in sexual assaults by Danial
> Bruce
> > House of Agoura Calif also submitted to his attacks and he was
> not 'fired
> > into the next time zone." ?
> Perhaps you should go back and read what Terry actually wrote.
> Most likely
> the mares submitted to his "assaults" because they did not find
> them
> sufficiently annoying to bother kicking the crap out of him.
Or they were hobbled as the news story stated in so many words with the
phraise: .."rope burns on his hind legs"
I spoke to one of the owners via phone, she said he used a three point
restraint, though I don't have any idea what that would consist of or
if it included other devices with it.
>Most horses
> do not share your religion.
What religion?
This has nothing to do with religion, hell, I don't give a flying leap
what two or more consenting **human adults** do in bed sexually, or the
porn they look at or how much they charge for "services". as a
prostitute, it's none of my business or anyone elses.
Recreational sex, including unmarried flings or pay-for-services are
fine by me, but not when it involves animals, children or NON
consenting adults.
> > A man suspected of sexually assaulting several horses was
> arrested June 6
> > by Los Angeles County sheriff's deputies after horse owners
> along Cornell
> > Road told them their horses had been sodomized with unknown
> instruments.
> Sounds like trespass and vandalism to me.
> > "There was a man arrested for, basically, bestiality"
> And charged, no doubt, with trespass and vandalism.
> > Buddy, a 9-year-old gelding, had rope marks on his hind legs,
> where he
> > had apparently been tied up.
> Trespass, vandalism, and animal abuse. All illegal under existing
> law.
> > "One was attacked on our property and molested with implements
> because
> > there was some bleeding,"
> Trespass, vandalism, and animal abuse. All illegal under existing
> law.
Yes they are, but they usually carry a FINE or probation, and the nut
is free to repeat this, these cases involved REPEAT offenders,
obviously that tresspass penalty system is not working is it?
> I think that you know very well that all of your horrific examples
> are crimes under existing law.
See above
You are using them quite deliberately
> in an
> effort to generatee support for your real agenda,
I used them as examples that this stuff goes on, they WERE after all in
the news, and were what the public hears, reads and sees in the media.
Most of the rest is rarely seen because those doing it have not been
caught or maintain a low profile.
>which is to
> suppress activities that are neither illegal nor abusive but to which
you
> have religious objections.
First, I will clear up your misconception on that with this public
statement, and you will never hear a "religious" person make this
statement:
I don't give a damn about religion, I am in no way "religious", I don't
believe in a stupid 'all seeing" "God", or his idiot fictional "Jesus"
who supposedly "saves" us that no one has ever seen and can't be proven
even exist.
It is all fantasy land and/or misunderstandings by primitive people who
may have witnessed some event they couldnt explain and did so the only
way they knew how- creating a "god", and thats from the same idiots who
thought there was a God of rain, and that lightening meant "God" was
angry.
HOWEVER:
I *do* support many of the religious: social programs, music,
community outreach, habitat for humanity, food banks, and those sorts
of things.
For many elderly people, going to church is their only "community"
contact with other people, it gives them hope, something to believe in,
some reason to get out of bed, get dressed and go out.
There certainly are positive benefts to all that, and some people need
something positive to believe in like that, I DONT.
I am an animal welfare ACTIVIST, that is why my email, web site etc is
"Animalsav" not "Godsav"
You will not find one item of "religion" on my web sites, not one
reference to the "Bible" or quotations about "Sin". You MAY still find
a link in the "Links to other sites for help" on an older abandoned
site for an Episcopal page that had links to many social, mental health
and social services, I thought at the time they might be of some *use*
to someone who wanted help. It was replaced by several mental health
and treatment links.
You also neglected to note John, that *I* was one of those zoophiles
who had sex with animals, until I got help for the problem. Now instead
of helping to promote sex with animals as a "lifestyle" as I used to
several years ago, I devote my spare time to promoting awareness,
education about it and legislation against it as animal abuse.
So I am speaking as one who was formerly inside this issue, not as
someone such as yourself looking in from the outside.
Think on that a while.
Mike
> John Hasler
> jo...@dhh.gt.org
> Dancing Horse Hill
> Elmwood, Wisconsin
ASAIRS Administrator
wrote:
> John Hasler
> jo...@dhh.gt.org
> Dancing Horse Hill
> Elmwood, Wisconsin
One last point I wanted to make:
John: You, like many others here include information as the above, were
you aware of the fact that a considerable number of the zoophiles read
this forum and participate in animal related mailing lists and other
forums?
The issue is, participants in these forums often put out the names of
their animals, business/stable names, locations, descriptions of
animals, links to photos on web sites and often times much more.
In other words, providing these people with almost all they need to "go
for a walk" to "fence hop visit" animals at 3 AM
People can do as they wish on that, I just make the suggestion to
animal owners not to disclose such details in public forums.
cory O'Carollan
>
cory O'Carollan
WOW!! I may be new to this group.. but the pro-beastiality wing AMAZES
me!!! The denial that .. A) Fucking an animal is beyond condemnation.
B) Any reputable psychiatrist will tell you that animal abuse and
mutilation is in many cases, a stepping stone to comiting the same
acts against humans... just goes to identify the reasons that this
world is going to to hell in a hand-basket....
And to those who defend these bestialigists(?) ...I hope your wives,
mothers or daughters feel comforted by your explainations, after one
of the sickos fucks them with a 1/2 inch drill bit (that too, has been
done in the past)
Some people are just a waste of good oxegen!
.
Joel B Levin
bogd...@virginiamn.com (cory O'Carollan) wrote:
}"Terry von Gease" <t...@rose.hp.com> wrote:
nothing quoted here.
}WOW!! I may be new to this group.. but the pro-beastiality wing
You have not found a "pro-beastiality" wing or any other such avian
appendage. Learn to read for comprehension.
/JBL
--
Nets: levin/at/bbn.com | Isn't that the beauty of complete unawareness?
or jbl/at/levin.mv.com| It's the very first thing you're unaware of.
or levinjb/at/gte.net |
ARS: KD1ON |
Pet-Rights
involves sexual abuse to non-consenting beings. The lines have to be drawn
where physical harm is caused by the material in question.
Judy
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
cory O'Carollan
Learn Morality, Joel
cory O'Carollan
By the by... you must be edjamacated ..by the way yous tell me how too
reade!!!!!
Wood u bee mi teecher!!!!
How well you bandy your phases, jackass!!!
Muleskinner
bogd...@virginiamn.com (cory O'Carollan) wrote:
[erroneously-retained attribution deleted]
>WOW!! I may be new to this group.. but the pro-beastiality wing AMAZES
>me!!!
It's only your own hallucination, though.
>... Fucking an animal ...
Your personal problems are not generally germane.
Nobody here has defended anything of the sort.
"Serene" *Sheila Green* "Sagacity" [aka Word Warrior green*@tristate.pgh.net]
"Eat me, and use your head for better than the absorption of monitor radiation."
http://minyos.its.rmit.edu.au/~s8904850/wisdom.html
http://www.olympus.net/personal/pvd/LamIntro.html#Interdigitate
http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.htm
Bill Kambic
<snip>
>That sounds like a plan, but you would have to show proof of what kind
>of monitary loss there was, and tresspass often carries little more
>than a fine or probation.
First, you must distinguish be civil and criminal penalty. In TN, criminal tresspass is a
Class C misdemeanor, which ain't much. Vandalism is Class A (IIRC). On top of a fine, of
course, are court costs (currently $140 to $160) per charge, so even a couple minor
conviction can mean a fairly big price tag.
In civil tresspass you must prove compensatory damages, but you can also claim punitive
damages. And I suspect that in a case like this that a good lawyer could make that second
number pretty impressive.
> Some injuries don't show immediately, or to
>the eye as in the case of bacterial infections. What about brucellosis
>being spread from one infected animal
>to another with the human acting as the intermediate transference.
This is generally not that much of a problem, because a civil case will be heard a fair
time after the event. Any damage that takes time to manifest itself will probably do so.
>So then what recourse do you have? does this mean then the guy pays a
>$50 fine, essentially a slap on the wrist, then does the same thing to
>your neighbor and the people down the road?
The chance of someone getting "gigged" hard on a first offense is pretty small. But a
second time around will probably make the judge pretty angry.
>What about mandatory psychological TREATMENT and intervention paid for
>at his expense, with removal of any animals he owns and prohibition
>from owning animals, working with or for a place that has animals?
>That is part of the proposed legislation the Humane Society put forth
>on this to add this abuse to existing animal abuse/cruelty laws.
>The key is it would be a crime of animal abuse which would then carry
>the penalty as above,and the important psychological treatment to
>hopefully prevent a recurrence.
This is not unusual in animal cruelty cases and within the discretion of the court. I see
no need for additional legislation.
>
>>Whether he messed with my mare to satisfy his sexual
>> urges or his
>> scientific curiosity is irrelevant.
>
>You would feel rightly angered and violated, you might even be
>inclined to give him the two barrels in the knees like a horse owner in
>Washington state did to such a person messing with his animals several
>times.
>The owner even had a restraining order in effect but it did no good.
An incident like this would make me pretty angry. I doubt I would "kneecap" anyone.
There are proceedures in place for dealing with violations of restraining orders.
>Yes they are, but they usually carry a FINE or probation, and the nut
>is free to repeat this, these cases involved REPEAT offenders,
>obviously that tresspass penalty system is not working is it?
Sentence after conviction is usually determined by the court, sometimes IAW guidelines
promulgated by either statute of other judicial authority. Repeat offenders do not get
kindly treatment in most places. Judges get angry seeing the same faces for the same
offenses.
But there are limiting factors on sentence. If you are in one of those areas where jail
space is at a premium, who do you lock up? The child molester? The crack dealer? Or the
zooiphile?
>I used them as examples that this stuff goes on, they WERE after all in
>the news, and were what the public hears, reads and sees in the media.
>Most of the rest is rarely seen because those doing it have not been
>caught or maintain a low profile.
I am no fan of human-animal sex. But in the great scheme of things this is not much of a
problem. How many cases occur nationwide in a given year? Balance that number against
the numbers of rapes and murders and aggravated assaults and the scales do not bode well
for your agenda.
>I am an animal welfare ACTIVIST, that is why my email, web site etc is
>"Animalsav" not "Godsav"
I'm an animal welfare activist, too. I did 4 years as VP of our local humane society,
have been active in the fight against soring of the TWH, go out with our local humane
investigators from time to time on field investigations, and work in our local DA's office
one day a week as the World's Oldest Law Clerk. Alas, I do not have a web site dedicated
to such issues. I leave that to the movie stars and their hangers on who are too
sophisticated to ever get mud or shit on their shoes.
>You also neglected to note John, that *I* was one of those zoophiles
>who had sex with animals, until I got help for the problem. Now instead
>of helping to promote sex with animals as a "lifestyle" as I used to
>several years ago, I devote my spare time to promoting awareness,
>education about it and legislation against it as animal abuse.
The reformed "sinner" is often a fine candidate for inquizitor.
Joel B Levin
>plonk<
C.M.Newell
<asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>That sounds like a plan, but you would have to show proof of what kind
>of monitary loss there was, and tresspass often carries little more
>than a fine or probation. Some injuries don't show immediately, or to
>the eye as in the case of bacterial infections. What about brucellosis
>being spread from one infected animal
>to another with the human acting as the intermediate transference.
Gee, maybe you could get the Feds to brand him as a positive
reactor. I wouldn't be overly concerned with brucellosis--many states
are now brucellosis-free, and a human who is infected is likely to be
feeling too poorly to run about the countryside nocturnally and
consort with horses.
--CMN,DVM
"The morning sun shall dawn again, but never more with thee
Shall I gallop o'er the desert paths , where we were wont to be;
Evening shall darken on the earth, and o'er the sandy plain
Some other steed, with slower step, shall bear me home again."
==The Arab's Farewell to His Steed
Terry von Gease
>The 1st Amendment even contains boundries, such as pornographic material
that
>involves sexual abuse to non-consenting beings. The lines have to be drawn
>where physical harm is caused by the material in question.
Not so. The freedom of speech as defined in the 1st amendment has no
boundaries. This is a Good Thing. However, from time to time, the Supremes
whose only job is to interpret the constitution have tippy-toed around the
simple elegance of this amendment by deeming certain things as not being
speech at all and/or not being uttered by an actual citizen. Here at the
home we regard this as a Bad Thing.
Huff and puff as you might other than have a truckload of newspapers back
over you, it is not possible for words to damage. Spare me the silliness of
the 'Ready, Aim, Fire' category of standard retorts to this inarguable fact.
To this point we find your choice of the words 'have to' in your second
sentence particularly chilling.
All in all the first amendment, loving tended to by the minions of the ACLU,
is, at least in concept, absolute. We could only wish that the ACLU would
defend the 2nd amendment with the same zeal and energy that they expend on
the 1st. These people seem to want to expand the 1st to include any
conceivable act, nothing wroing with that, and so severely limit the 2nd as
to render it meaningless
ASAIRS Administrator
(C.M.Newell) wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:54:40 -0800, ASAIRS Administrator
> <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> kind
> >of monitary loss there was, and tresspass often carries little
> more
> >than a fine or probation. Some injuries don't show immediately,
> or to
> >the eye as in the case of bacterial infections. What about
> brucellosis
> >being spread from one infected animal
> >to another with the human acting as the intermediate transference.
>I wouldn't be overly concerned with brucellosis--many
> states are now brucellosis-free, and a human who is infected is
likely to
> be feeling too poorly to run about the countryside nocturnally and
> consort with horses.
> --CMN,DVM
Still, there are risks there along with bacterial infections not to
mention the risk that the animals could be spooked by a strange visitor
at 3AM in the dark and be injured or killed.
If that's an acceptable risk to horse owners, and the some here who
don't feel bestiality is abusive I have this suggestion:
Post your city and state here for us, and I'll see if I can find one of
the classified ads in your area on a zoophile's personal contact web
board, then you can invite the man over for bestiality any time he
wishes.
Along those lines as well as the other suggestion about not providing
details about animals, location, photos etc:
There was one woman who posted in this thread including a link to her
miniature horse web site on math.luc.edu
http://www1.math.luc.edu/~pschwal/gci/mini2.jpg
Which is:
Loyola University Chicago Chicago, IL
I am providing the lady with a list of six classified ads for Illinois
in her area so she can "hook up" with interested horse molesters. I
hope this gives you some idea of this issue and that it's no joking
matter. You will note all six advertisers looking for animals to have
sex with are in your state, these are just the ones who actually
*advertise* the fact, and have interests in horses.
Just think, any of the readers here who may be inclined to hire help
for their stable or business could wind up with people like these.
Since miniature horses are the most popular here we go:
Illinois
Curtesy of:
http://www.spastic.org/~calzoo/
------------------------------------------------------------------------
HOT 4 FARMER Male Created: September 1999
Record ID: 14963 Chicago
Contact: HOT4F...@AOL.COM
Orientation: Humans: Gay Animals: Both sexes
I'm a former Iowa farmboy, now residing in Illinois, who had
experiences with sows and heifers as a teen and mares as an adult. I'm
interested in corresponding, via E-Mail, with Midwest livestock farmers
who are active with hogs, cattle, sheep, and/or horses. I'm also into
farm gear and have a manure fetish.
Animal Interests: Cattle, Goats, Horses, Ponies/Minis, Pigs, Sheep
Zoo Status: Inactive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cowdoggy Male Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15013 NW
Contact: cowd...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Straight Animals: Females
Hi-
I'm 25 years old and almost accidentally discovered that I was (and
became) a zoophile when I was around 15. It has been a dark secret of
mine for so many years and I would love to communicate with others who
understand. It's very difficult to find anyone that I can talk to at
all about this. I'm currently active with cows and dogs. Anyone
interested in communicating with a fellow zoo- please drop me a line
sometime.
Animal Interests: Cattle, Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis, Sheep Zoo
Status: Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Archangel Male Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15035 Chicagoland area
Contact: anop...@usa.net
Orientation: Humans: Straight Animals: Males
Hello!
I would very much like to talk to others who share this interest as
well. It would be so nice to talk to someone who could relate to my
feelings. If you'd like to get to know me, feel free to contact me.
Animal Interests: Cattle, Dogs, Goats, Horses, Llamas, Ponies/Minis
Zoo Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
dogygirl14 Female Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15046
Contact: dogyg...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Males
Hello, I am a 19 yr old female that has been into loving my dog sence I
was 10, starting by oral and then to intercourse.
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses Zoo Status: Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
unvrnohu Couple Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15050 Southern
Contact: unvr...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Males
We are a 26 y/o interracial couple that is very zoo-experienced. We
never knew that there would be so many people out there like us! We
hope to make many friends . . .
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis Zoo Status: Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
bailey Female Created: November 1999
Record ID: 15062
Contact: petal...@aol.com
Orientation: Humans: Straight Animals: Males
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses Zoo Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
6 listings for Illinois
Report created 9-November-1999, 8:22 PM PST
Just for fun,
How about Northern California ads?
Anyone here have a stable in Northern California?
If so, here are some ads for your area, and if you dont feel bestiality
is abusive hey feel free to contact any of these people and rent your
mares to them:
Northern California
------------------------------------------------------------------------
CalZoo Created: January 1996
Record ID: 10000 Updated: September 1999
Contact: @spastic.org Website: http://www.spastic.org/~calzoo
CalZoo, the Northern California Zoophile Community, is a social and
support group based in the San Francisco Bay Area. Currently and
formerly active zoos in our area can reach us by writing to ...
postm...@spastic.org
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Wolf Male Created: January 1996
Record ID: 10305 Updated: September 1999
Contact: wlf...@dog.com
Orientation: Animals: Both sexes
Wolf is a long-time zoo. He also is the coordinator of the local CalZoo
events. He enjoys meeting new people and helping people. He also runs
this part of the CalZoo pages... therefore it is "Wolf's Online
Zoophile Meeting Place"
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses, Wolves Zoo Status: Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
wolfsinn Male Created: September 1999
Record ID: 14975
Contact: wolf...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Gay Animals: Both sexes
i have been a zoophile since early childhood. i am posting just looking
around to establish freindships with other zoophiles. i been all over
the united states and enjoy the sharing of thoughts and ideas of other
zoophiles.
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis, Wolves Zoo Status:
Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Calbayarea Male Created: September 1999
Record ID: 14977 Bayarea Updated: October 1999
Contact: Calba...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Males
I could use some friends locally that I can be honest and open with.
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis Zoo Status: Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Skylos Male Created: October 1999
Record ID: 14995 South Bay
Contact: sk...@doglover.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Both sexes
I'm an active zoo with a male white german shepherd. I work in the
networking field. I want to live in Portland oregon. I write stories
you can find on my website.
Animal Interests: Dogs Zoo Status: Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cryngwlf Male Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15026
Contact: Romu...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Both sexes
Animal Interests: Bears, Dogs, Dolphins, Horses, Wolves Zoo Status:
Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Loverjoe Male Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15030 Sacramento
Contact: Lover...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Both sexes
Hello everyone.. i am very curious about this subject. and would like
to talk to others, and maybe more about it.. in my local area.. i am a
very outgoing person. and VERY openminded.. feel free to contact me.
take care.. peace out. i am 22 years old also.
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis Zoo Status:
Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
bablyon5 Male Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15032 san jose
Contact: babl...@yahoo.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Both sexes
Hello guys and gals,
I am new to this. I am in San Jose, so I would like to talk with anyone
here about this new experience that wants to help me understand more.
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses, Sheep Zoo Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Curiosity Male Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15047 san francisco area
Contact: tigrk...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Straight Animals: Females
New to the environment, but curious and open to new experiences and
people. Quite friendly (dont worry, i dont bite) and interested in
meeting people of similar mindsets
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses Zoo Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
SFMatt Male Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15054 East of Stockton
Contact: SFM...@yahoo.com
Orientation: Humans: Gay Animals: Both sexes
GWM 32
I'm in the 209 area code of Northern Calif., Gold Country.
Looking to talk with and meet like minded people.
Animal Interests: Dogs, Goats, Horses, Ponies/Minis Zoo Status:
Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
wolf3999 Male Created: November 1999
Record ID: 15063
Contact: wolf...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Straight Animals: Both sexes
I would like to meet other zoo's I am new at this and would love to
have another zoo contact me
Animal Interests: Dogs Zoo Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
newzoo Male Created: November 1999
Record ID: 15064
Contact: newz...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Both sexes
Hi I am a new zoo and I have just stated to make love to my dog and
would love to talk to other zoo's.
Animal Interests: Deer, Dogs, Horses Zoo Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Whitetail Buck Male Created: November 1999
Record ID: 15066
Contact: whiteta...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Straight Animals: Females
I am a 28 year old single male interested in chatting with others who
enjoy spending time with horses and dogs.
Animal Interests: Deer, Dogs, Horses Zoo Status: Active
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Deminer Male Created: November 1999
Record ID: 15085
Contact: wo...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Both sexes
Would like to meet for friendship and see what happens from there.
Open-minded, fun luving kinda guy. Non-pushy, and clean.
Animal Interests: Deer, Dogs, Ponies/Minis, Sheep Zoo Status:
Inactive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
doggyboy15 Male Created: November 1999
Record ID: 15089 Fresno, Central Valley
Contact: doggy...@usa.net
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Males
Hi Everyone!! I am totally new to the zoo scene. I just discovered this
interest in me a few weeks ago. I am a teenager and my parents are
really strict christians so I am just looking for other people in my
area who I can talk to and be friends with. Thanks!!
Animal Interests: Dogs, Wolves Zoo Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
15 listings for Northern California
There is also another big zoophile site with many links to zoophile web
sites and forums, many promoting sex with horses, maybe this should
offer another idea of what is going on that many here seem to be
blissfully unaware of:
http://www.ianszoolinks.com/zoolinks/
I do hope some of you now see the issue a little differently, it's no
longer a farm joke that you thought almost no one did for real.
Mike ASAIRS Administrator and information coordinator
ASAIRS Administrator
(C.M.Newell) wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999 11:04:29 -0800, ASAIRS Administrator
> <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> >Post your city and state here for us, and I'll see if I can find
> one of
> >the classified ads in your area on a zoophile's personal contact
> web
> >board, then you can invite the man over for bestiality any time he
> >wishes.
>
> wasn't interested in. Trust me on this one--she ain't going to
> stand meekly around to be trussed up like a Christmas turkey, either.
I hope you are right on that one, but I'd wager the owners of Buttons
and the mares in Agoura Calif and the others probably thought exactly
the same thing. Buttons as a matter of fact was prone to kicking when
"displeased", and might be why one of the 3 "men" involved came out
with a severe injury to his face, that was all fine and good, but then
they dragged Buttons for one mile behind their pickup truck until she
was dead. So I guess by then it didn't matter if they completed their
original act or not.
> You miss the point entirely, son. Anyone entering my premises
> to mess about with my animals is likely to encounter more
> unpleasantness than they want. Exactly *what* they intend is
> immaterial. I don't care. If the mare doesn't get tham, Harry the
> attack ram may flatten them. By then, I'll probably be on the
> scene.
> Potentially wielding a pair of Hauptman-Reimers.
Actually I didn't, but I am pointing out that you are probably the
exception, if you feel safe, hey that's great I am very happy for you.
But not everyone has skittish animals, attack rams, alarms or security
lights.
Here are some ads for your state just to give you an idea. Hey there's
even one who says he is going to buy a puppy! Like the other lady said
earlier, this country is "going to hell in a handbasket", maybe this
thread will show her just how fast we are heading there.
These ads originated from a site which in it's former location before
it was shut down- had over 2,000 such ads. You might notice these all
have "record ID" numbers and that the numbers are in the thousands:
Record ID: 14981 Boston
Here is one from 1997, note the record ID number of it:
Record ID: 12761
He even mentions illegal videos, and wants to try: Horses, Ponies/Minis
If he was in the Chicago area I'm sure the other lady in this thread
who didn't feel this is abusive would be more than happy to invite the
young man over to use her miniature mares.
bobim
Male
Created:
November 1997
Record ID: 12761
San Diego
Contact: roto...@worldnet.att.net
Orientation:
Humans: Bi
Animals: Both sexes
hi. im a 29 year old white male living in the san diego area. im 6'tall
180lbs with brown hair, and brown eyes. im told i'm a super nice guy. im
new to this area and am interested in finding other zoos in this area,
male or female(female prefered).. i used to have a good friend who was
into this animal thing. she and i used to watch videos(k9 and pony)
together, and sometimes played with her dog. but unfortunitly i had to
up and move due to work..she was unabl to follow due to school..i'd like
to find a friend to enjoy this same sort of relationship..the vids are
much more fun to watch with someone.. im cautious and start out slow,
desparate to find a friend.. hope to hear from you soon..
Animal Interests:
Bears, Big Cats, Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis
Zoo Status: Curious
===========
Massachusetts
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Winter Male Created: September 1999
Record ID: 14981 Boston
Contact: wint...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Males
Hi Folks,
M/35, would like to meet other people in the area who share this
interest.
Drop me an email if you'd like to chat. Alternatively, I hang out on IRC
(undernet) on all the usual channels, so drop in some night and look me
up.
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis Zoo Status:
Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Silk Female Created: October 1999
Record ID: 15031 New England
Contact: Luv2B_...@Yahoo.com
Orientation: Humans: Straight Animals: Males
I am a 43 year old married lady who is facinated by zoosex. I have had
very limited experience so far. I wish to talk to others who are
interested in this lifestyle.
If you would like to discuss this with me, please email me.
Animal Interests: Dogs Zoo Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
Bruce Male Created: November 1999
Record ID: 15056 Boston,Ma.
Contact: bhamb...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Both sexes
Hi, I'm a 45 year old male living near Boston, Ma. looking to make
friends and chat with others in New England who enjoy having dogs as
pets and friends. Planning to buy a male lab. pup in the spring.
Animal Interests: Cattle, Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis, Sheep Zoo
Status: Inexperienced
------------------------------------------------------------------------
loveit Male Created: November 1999
Record ID: 15092 cambridge
Contact: joe...@hotmail.com
Orientation: Humans: Bi Animals: Males
I live in cambridge Mass. would like to find someone with a K9 or to
talk to about this.
Animal Interests: Dogs Zoo Status: Inactive
------------------------------------------------------------------------
4 listings for Massachusetts
Here's one from an underaged minor who posted back in 1997 looking for
someone to teach him the ropes, who says parents are responsible and
always watch their kid's on-line?? Here was *someones* kid
participating in animal sex forums where he shouldn't have been:
Alpha Wolf
Male
Created:
October 1997
Record ID: 13451
Orange County
Updated:
April 1998
Contact:
alpha...@usa.net
Website: http://www.geocities.com/RainForest/1073/
Orientation:
Humans: Straight
Animals: Both sexes
I am 17 SWM in the Newport Beach, Orange County area. I would like to
find other zoos in my area and/or close to my age. I am very fond of
wolves and have been in contact with them many
times, although not intimately.
Straight with humans, but open to all animals.
Animal Interests: Dogs, Horses, Ponies/Minis, Wolves
Zoo Status: Curious
Entries 41-80 shown
< Click to see entries 1-40 || Click to see entries 81-100 >
100 listings for Southern California
Report created 22-July-1998, 5:00 PM PST
Charles A. Hall
someone who has too much time on their hands wrote: > Here's one from an
underaged minor who posted back in 1997 looking for
> someone to teach him the ropes, who says parents are responsible and
> always watch their kid's on-line?? Here was *someones* kid
> participating in animal sex forums where he shouldn't have been:
Actually, the comment was that the parents *should* be paying attention. I
further commented that *I* supervise my children's on-line time and
locations. If you feel the need to quote, please get it straight.
Deborah Stevenson
On Sat, 11 Dec 1999, cory O'Carollan wrote:
> "Terry von Gease" <t...@rose.hp.com> wrote:
>
> WOW!! I may be new to this group.. but the pro-beastiality wing AMAZES
> me!!!
It amazes me that you managed to see Terry's post as pro-bestiality.
>The denial that .. A) Fucking an animal is beyond condemnation.
Then I'd have to put a lot of things even farther beyond condemnation.
In another post you say you own a Percheron mare. Do you think
that she is likely to suffer or even notice if some human male sticks his
comparatively petite member in her vagina? Do you think that would be
worse than starving her, or keeping her on such inappropriate pasture that
she foundered repeatedly? Hurting horses is a bad thing. Sexual contact
with them is, IMHO, rather low on the list of likely ways to hurt them.
It may disgust people more than the other practices, but I prefer not to
rank my responses to animal abuse based on the level of disgust an action
provokes but rather to base it on the suffering it causes. Otherwise it's
not about the animal--it is, as you suggest, a moral issue rather than one
of humane treatment.
I think the zoophiles are generally pretty self-deceptive and unpleasant
packages. That's a problem with them, however, not a measure of the
horses' suffering. And I think the rabid antizoophiles are generally the
same, and they're both equally obsessed with the same subject. Your
newness to the group may mean that you haven't seen the latter in action,
so you don't really see the context of the discussion.
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Sticking to same-species animals in Champaign, IL, USA
ASAIRS Administrator
Hall" <FinalJ...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> underaged minor who posted back in 1997 looking for
> > someone to teach him the ropes, who says parents are responsible
> and
> > always watch their kid's on-line?? Here was *someones* kid
> > participating in animal sex forums where he shouldn't have been:
> Actually, the comment was that the parents *should* be paying
> attention. I
> further commented that *I* supervise my children's on-line time and
> locations. If you feel the need to quote, please get it straight.
Those were *my words* as a rhetorical "question", I was not quoting you
or anyone else
Mike
ASAIRS Administrator
<psc...@abel.math.luc.edu> wrote:
> ASAIRS Administrator <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> : Post your city and state here for us, and I'll see if I can find
> one of
> : the classified ads in your area on a zoophile's personal contact
> web
> : I am providing the lady with a list of six classified ads for
> Illinois
> : in her area so she can "hook up" with interested horse
> molesters.
> You didn't read my post. The minis are gone.
You didn't read mine either and don't care if you still had them or
not, I was making a point that if you don't feel bestiality is abuse,
then you should just invite a bunch of zoophiles over and let them have
at it with your animals you have left if that's how you feel about the
issue.
> BTW, your ads sounded quite benign, in terms sexual
> fantasies.
Of course they were, because if they had any further details and
graphic language that web site would be removed again for violating
contents, as it was the first time it was shut down with the 2,000 ads
on blueneptune.
>If I were you,
It IS real abuse, shame you don't see it yet, but since you obviously
don't care maybe you should go back to the threads on "how to worm your
foals" because you are wasting your time in this thread. Maybe when
the next case hits the newspapers with the details you will see it.
ASAIRS Administrator
<Pine.SGI.4.10.991210...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu>,
Deborah Stevenson <stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> wrote:
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999, cory O'Carollan wrote:
> > "Terry von Gease" <t...@rose.hp.com> wrote:
> >
> > WOW!! I may be new to this group.. but the pro-beastiality wing
> AMAZES
> > me!!!
> It amazes me that you managed to see Terry's post as
> pro-bestiality.
It looked that way to me too, anyone accepting or condoning of sex
with animals is in my book helping zoophiles continue their sickness.
Don't forget I used to *be* a zoophile until I got help- *you* are the
outsider who knows nothing about this issue and knows nothing about
what goes on.
> >The denial that .. A) Fucking an animal is beyond condemnation.z
SNIP
How about if the same man was shoving the end of a broom stick into
that mare, is that abuse or is that too small too?
Did you ever talk to that older couple in Washington whose animals were
thusly mutilated and the guy was caught but got a slap on the wrist?
Forgetting about horses for the moment, how about a 40 pound female dog?
I do have a post detailing the picking up of a stray Golden Retriever
by the side of the road late at night, and with the help of the
author's friend- raping her, then driving off leaving her to whatever
fate awaited her as far as cars/trucks etc goes.
>Hurting horses is a bad thing. Sexual
> contact
> with them is, IMHO, rather low on the list of likely ways to hurt
> them.
It may rank low on your scale speaking in here, but if it were your
animals involved, and there was also a broom stick involved, I
guarantee you'd feel differently.
> It may disgust people more than the other practices, but I prefer
> not to
> rank my responses to animal abuse based on the level of disgust an
> action
> provokes but rather to base it on the suffering it causes.
Great, so you don't care and don't think it's abuse and in fact, really
approve but won't say it.
So then lets have you invite some of these dudes over to your place for
a sex party with your mares then.
> I think the zoophiles are generally pretty self-deceptive and
> unpleasant
> packages.
Well lady, speaking from the inside as a former zoophile, part of my
personal recovery goal is UNDOING the crap I did for two years helping
to promote sex with animals as being "normal".
I have seen and read things not usually put out in public which I would
not repeat in a public forum. How about the gay zoophile guy who had
his dog's penile sheath surgically slit down the middle underside
because he liked how it looked "hot"? Was it done with annaesthesia? I
doubt it, no vet would do such surgery, I saw the dog with my own eyes.
How about the admitted HIV positive men I knew of who are having sex
with animals? Would you say that may be of concern when we are now
seeing all kinds of new antibiotic resistant bacteria and other things?
The zoo-cons which are get-togethers at a zoophile's house, I have an
invitation sent via email several years ago to me that details the
animals brought to it for all to share- dogs of both sexes, mini's, etc.
How about the guy in Washington state who likes to buy lambs and kill
them during sex? I have his IRC chat log detailing that, let me know if
you want it, it's far too graphic for a public forum.
> Your
> newness to the group may mean that you haven't seen the latter in
> action,
> so you don't really see the context of the discussion.
I think she has, and her response is typical of someone who actually
cares about animal welfare, those who make money selling animals all to
often don't care, and I begin to suspect this newsgroup has a lot of
the latter.
The same materials posted to dog forums as well as mailing lists always
brings about a considerable amount of concern and mail asking what can
be done, that always lacks from this forum which was why I rarely
posted here.
Mrs Myers however began the thread, so I added my FAQ to the discussion.
Thanks for participating in this little experiment, all but one or two
readers in this thread acted exactly as I predicted they would- with a
complete lack of concern or care which helped confirm something for me!
Now I have some other forums to visit, so you will excuse me for the
moment thanks.
Mike
ASAIRS Administrator
http://members.aol.com/animalsav
C.M.Newell
<asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Post your city and state here for us, and I'll see if I can find one of
>the classified ads in your area on a zoophile's personal contact web
>board, then you can invite the man over for bestiality any time he
>wishes.
>
My mare would likely rearrange anyone who tried anything she
wasn't interested in. Trust me on this one--she ain't going to stand
meekly around to be trussed up like a Christmas turkey, either.
You miss the point entirely, son. Anyone entering my premises
to mess about with my animals is likely to encounter more
unpleasantness than they want. Exactly *what* they intend is
immaterial. I don't care. If the mare doesn't get tham, Harry the
attack ram may flatten them. By then, I'll probably be on the scene.
Potentially wielding a pair of Hauptman-Reimers.
Patricia Schwalm
: Post your city and state here for us, and I'll see if I can find one of
: the classified ads in your area on a zoophile's personal contact web
: board, then you can invite the man over for bestiality any time he
: wishes.
Ah. So this is what you are really interested in.
: Along those lines as well as the other suggestion about not providing
: details about animals, location, photos etc:
: There was one woman who posted in this thread including a link to her
: miniature horse web site on math.luc.edu
: http://www1.math.luc.edu/~pschwal/gci/mini2.jpg
: Which is:
: Loyola University Chicago Chicago, IL
OOOHH! I'm trembling in my boots with your implied threat! ;-)
: I am providing the lady with a list of six classified ads for Illinois
: in her area so she can "hook up" with interested horse molesters.
You didn't read my post. The minis are gone. They were never
molested. Overfed, yes. Foundered, yes. Frankly, I consider
that more abusive than if some guy had his way with them.
BTW, your ads sounded quite benign, in terms sexual
fantasies. If I were you, I'd concentrate on *real* abuse.
Patty
ASAIRS Administrator
Kambic) wrote:
> On Fri, 10 Dec 1999 20:54:40 -0800, ASAIRS Administrator
> <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> <snip>
> >That sounds like a plan, but you would have to show proof of what
> kind
> >of monitary loss there was, and tresspass often carries little
> more
> >than a fine or probation.
> First, you must distinguish be civil and criminal penalty. In TN,
> criminal tresspass is a
> Class C misdemeanor, which ain't much. Vandalism is Class A
> (IIRC). On top of a fine, of
> course, are court costs (currently $140 to $160) per charge, so
> even a couple minor
> conviction can mean a fairly big price tag.
Yes, but we might be talking about people who don't care, are sick, or
don't have any money.
> In civil tresspass you must prove compensatory damages, but you
> can also claim punitive
> damages. And I suspect that in a case like this that a good
> lawyer could make that second
> number pretty impressive.
Collecting is another story as you know.
> > Some injuries don't show immediately, or to
> >the eye as in the case of bacterial infections. What about
> brucellosis
> >being spread from one infected animal
> >to another with the human acting as the intermediate transference.
> This is generally not that much of a problem, because a civil case
> will be heard a fair
> time after the event. Any damage that takes time to manifest
> itself will probably do so.
Of course then *proving* it was as a result of the assault presents a
whole other problem.
> >So then what recourse do you have? does this mean then the guy
> pays a
> >$50 fine, essentially a slap on the wrist, then does the same
> thing to
> >your neighbor and the people down the road?
> The chance of someone getting "gigged" hard on a first offense is
> pretty small. But a
> second time around will probably make the judge pretty angry.
Well a few of those cases I cited involved *repeat* offenders, the case
in Plumas Calif involving 6 dogs owned by two men went to trial, I
understand they pretty much got off easy, the DA just wanted to get rid
of them. They stated that after their trial they were going to move to
a state where bestiality is legal.
One of them had a prior in Washington he wasnt prosecuted for. So here
they go again, this time in a new state.
> >What about mandatory psychological TREATMENT and intervention
> paid for
> >at his expense, with removal of any animals he owns and
> prohibition
> >from owning animals, working with or for a place that has animals?
> >That is part of the proposed legislation the Humane Society put
> forth
> >on this to add this abuse to existing animal abuse/cruelty laws.
> >The key is it would be a crime of animal abuse which would then
> carry
> >the penalty as above,and the important psychological treatment to
> >hopefully prevent a recurrence.
> This is not unusual in animal cruelty cases and within the
> discretion of the court. I see
> no need for additional legislation.
This is not "additional" legislation really, it is simply adding the
specifics of sexual abuse to the existing animal abuse/cruelty laws,
not creating a whole new law, maybe you misunderstood the proposal.
> >>Whether he messed with my mare to satisfy his sexual
> >> urges or his
> >> scientific curiosity is irrelevant.
> >You would feel rightly angered and violated, you might even be
> >inclined to give him the two barrels in the knees like a horse
> owner in
> >Washington state did to such a person messing with his animals
> several
> >times.
> >The owner even had a restraining order in effect but it did no
> good.
> An incident like this would make me pretty angry. I doubt I would
> "kneecap" anyone.
> There are proceedures in place for dealing with violations of
> restraining orders.
It appeared the owners were not finding those options, so in the end,
the guy was shot in the knees, he was probably fortunate the aim wasn't
a foot or so higher.
> >Yes they are, but they usually carry a FINE or probation, and
> the nut
> >is free to repeat this, these cases involved REPEAT offenders,
> >obviously that tresspass penalty system is not working is it?
> Sentence after conviction is usually determined by the court,
> sometimes IAW guidelines
> promulgated by either statute of other judicial authority. Repeat
> offenders do not get
> kindly treatment in most places. Judges get angry seeing the same
> faces for the same
> offenses.
> But there are limiting factors on sentence. If you are in one of
> those areas where jail
> space is at a premium, who do you lock up? The child molester?
> The crack dealer? Or the
> zooiphile?
That certainly is a problem Bill, obviously the system sucks, but it's
what we have for the time being. All 3 of those you cite carry serious
consequences, they all will repeat offend and cause other problems.
> >I used them as examples that this stuff goes on, they WERE after
> all in
> >the news, and were what the public hears, reads and sees in the
> media.
> >Most of the rest is rarely seen because those doing it have not
> been
> >caught or maintain a low profile.
> I am no fan of human-animal sex. But in the great scheme of
> things this is not much of a
> problem. How many cases occur nationwide in a given year?
Acording to Merritt Clifton of Animal-People magazine he claimed he
knows of hundreds a year, but only a few cases are ever prosecuted. The
figure is likely correct since how easy is it to catch someone doing
something in a clandestine fashion with no witnesses unless surprised?
How many animal owners noticed something unusual in their animals
health and chalked it up to play injuries, accidents or just getting
ill, not for a minute even suspecting bestiality could have been the
cause.
> Balance that number against
> the numbers of rapes and murders and aggravated assaults and the
> scales do not bode well
> for your agenda.
Keeping in mind one of the warning flags that research is pointing to
more and more for those things is early ANIMAL abuse, the serial
murderers, the columbine school type shootings were done by people who
admitted animal abuse/torture/killings. One of the school shooters
wrote in a diary that was made public that he delighted in torturing
his dog "sparkle" to death.
> >I am an animal welfare ACTIVIST, that is why my email, web site
> etc is
> >"Animalsav" not "Godsav"
> I'm an animal welfare activist, too. I did 4 years as VP of our
I knew that from a previous post you made.
Mike
John Hasler
> Don't forget I used to *be* a zoophile until I got help-
You still are.
--
John Hasler
jo...@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Pet-Rights
manifested their abuse to humans!
"Henry Lee Lucas killed numerous animals and had sex with their corpses. He
killed his mother, common law wife and an unknown number of people."
By the time he was thirteen, Henry was almost completely obsessed by sex. He
began to trap animals so that he could use them in his private sexual
rituals, often torturing them to death. Bestiality became normal behaviour.
----------
"Peter Kurten, the Dusseldorf Monster, tortured dogs, and practiced
bestiality while killing the animal.
Murdered or attempted to murder over 50 men, women and children." Kurten
befriended a dogcatcher who lived in the same house, a degenerate who showed
him how to masturbate and torture dogs. Whereas a normal child would have
reacted with emotional recoil to this influence, the boy welcomed the
friendship and a powerful and most significant bond developed.
ASAIRS Administrator
wrote:
> Mike writes:
> > Don't forget I used to *be* a zoophile until I got help-
> You still are.
I most certainly am NOT, and unless you have something like a recent
court document proving otherwise, your statement is libelous sir.
Mike
Joel B Levin
Pet-Rights <Judit...@webtv.net> wrote:
}Here are two examples
Anecdotes aren't data.
>plonk<
ASAIRS Administrator
> Anecdotes aren't data.
Sorry, but the information is part of public records, in any case I can
see you missed the point anyhow.
You might take a read at this humane society page on violence, it show
several other serial murderers's prior violence of a general nature
towards animals:
http://www.teleport.com/~animals/violence.html
As Bill asked in so many words how many cases a year there are, I
thought I would just post a few of some cases *I* know about just from
people sending the things to me. I am not a reporter and dont get paid
to do legal work so I dont spend much time looking for cases. Many
others could have gone by that I am unaware of.
These below are mainly just the REPEAT offenders that the system
obviously didn't work on, after getting out of jail some went right
back and repeated. Some were involved with illegal drugs, illegal porn
and pedophilia:
Repeat offender #1
Subj: (US) (CA) Bestiality Horror
Plumas County, CA)
Defendants Stephen Kennett Rice and Aaron James Myers (case # 99-25182)
allegedly forced at least six dogs in their possession to have sex with
them over a period of several months, perhaps longer. One defendant has
a history of having sexually abused animals in the state of Washington,
but was never prosecuted. The dogs were rescued and taken to Plumas
County Animal Control and are being treated for internal injuries and
infections. DNA present in their bodies, as well as confessions by both
men to the activities, constitute air tight cases against both men. And,
the defendants freely discuss their preference for bestiality over the
Internet, are into violent pornography and have stated that after their
trial, they will move to a state where bestiality is not against the
law.
Rice and Myers have each been charged with four felony counts of
cruelty to animals and eight counts of misdemeanor sexual assault. Under
Sheriff Terry Bergstrand and Plumas County Animal Control officials
want Rice and Myers charged and convicted on all counts.
A pre-trial hearing is scheduled for May 21
Animal Legal Defense Fund
127 Fourth Street, Petaluma, CA 94952-3005 <BR>
Animal Cruelty ActionLine e-mail: act...@aldf.org
----
Repeat offender #2
Paul Milhouse,was arrested in El Cajon California for
stealing a horse and abusing it sexually- his second time arrested for
this offense, he was video taped in the act after he cut fences and
trespassed
repeatedly to abuse stallions owned by neighbors.
Repeat offender #3
Brian Lyle Courtier,was arrested in Victorville California
for a June 24 1998 theft and attack on a horse- he was previously
convicted
a few months earlier for another attack on a horse. San Bernardino
Sheriff
spokeswoman Cindy Beaver was quoted by the reporters. Courtier faces a
misdemeanor charge of sexual assault on a horse- as bestiality is
illegal
in California.
Repeat offender #4
Enumclaw WA. in King county had a zoophile case in June 1996
at 3:00 A.M. whereby a 29 year old man trespassed repeatedly to abuse
pygmy
goats belonging to neighbors. This was despite the owners having an
anti-harassment
court order against him for two prior attacks on their animals. He was
caught and arrested again- after the goat owner shot him in the knees-
an untreatable repeat offender.
(More details below)
Repeat offender #5
Sterling Rachwal,32, Waupaca County WI., charged with
cruelty to animals, burglary and bail jumping after his attack on a
pregnant
mare who suffered severe penetration injuries to the anal and vaginal
areas.
A three time prior offender on at least three other horses who were
euthanized
due to the extent of their injuries. His abuse history goes back to 1982
(More details below)
Juan J Alonzo,has been sentenced to one year in prison
after pleading no contest to charges of animal cruelty in an incident
where
witnesses reported that Alonzo was having anal relations with a 50 pound
black dog on Feb. 2, 1998. Alonzo was found pulling up his pants and was
with the dog when law enforcement officials arrived at the scene. In
addition
to the sentence, Alonzo may face deportation to his native Mexico
November, 1998 - Thonotosassa, Florida
A 48-year-old man was charged with operating a whips-and-chains
sex
dungeon in his home where customers could hire prostitutes or a
dog.
The man was formally charged with racketeering, prostitution,
pornography offenses and animal cruelty. Investigators said
some of
the videotapes confiscated involved exotic animals such as eels,
anteaters and water buffalo. (San Francisco Examiner)
November, 1998 - Hamilton, Montana
An 83-year-old man was charged with one count of sexual abuse
of an
8 year-old girl. He was also charged with one felony count of
sexual
abuse for allegedly having the same child watch him engage in
real or
simulated sexual contact with a dog for 5-10 minutes. (Ravalli
Republic)
Repeat offender #6
July 1998 - Janesville, Wisconsin
Thirty-seven year old Barry Herbeck was convicted of five
felony counts
of animal cruelty for torturing and killing five cats. One cat
was
sodomized and died as a result of its injuries. Although
initially
charged with bestiality, the misdemeanor charge was dropped in
a plea
agreement. Herbeck had previous convictions for the sexual
assault of
a child, burglary, theft, and battery. (Journal Sentinel)
Several dogs were also involved, including "Nikko" who was shoved head
first
into a garbage can, sealed up and left there for a week till she died.
His children
were witness to all of this.
Repeat offender #7
July 1998 - Victorville, California
A 25-year-old man was charged with allegedly stealing a horse
from
her corral and sexually assaulting her. The man admitted to the
attack,
which occurred just six months after he was convicted of having
sex
with another horse in the same area. (Victor Valley Daily Press)
July 1998 - Manatee Co., Florida
A man was sentenced to one year in prison after pleading no
contest
to charges of animal cruelty after having anal sex with a dog.
(Sarasota
In Defense of Animals)
October 1998 - Stillwater, Oklahoma
A 48-year-old man pled guilty to possession of a homemade
videotape
showing a woman engaging in bestiality and performing other sex
acts.
Another commercially made videotape also included bestiality.
The
man was given a five-year prison term for possession of the
homemade
obscene videotape, a concurrent six-year prison term for
possession of
methamphetamine with intent to distribute, and three concurrent
one-year jail terms for possession of marijuana, possession of
drug
paraphernalia, and driving under suspension. (Tulsa World)
Repeat offender #8
February, 1997 - El Cajon, California
A 49-year-old man was charged with breaking through a fence and
stalking and assaulting a horse. The sheriff's records show the
man
was arrested in the late 1980s for a similar offense but not
charged.
Complaints began more than a decade ago when the San Diego Zoo's
longtime spokeswoman, Joan Embrey, first alerted authorities.
(Associated Press)
August, 1996 - Eagleville, Tennessee
A 68-year-old man pled guilty to indecent exposure after a
neighbor
testified that the man had sexual intercourse with his
miniature horse.
He was charged with indecent exposure because Tennessee did not
have a law prohibiting sex with animals. The man was ordered to
undergo counseling. (Police Records)
Repeat offender #9
August, 1994 - St. John Township, Indiana
A 23-year-old man was sentenced to three years in prison after
attempting to kidnap a German Shepherd. The man had a history of
sexually abusing and killing animals. In 1991 he killed a
rooster and a
goose in separate incidents. The judge released him to get
counseling.
Instead, in 1992 he kidnapped and broke the neck of a
neighbor's dog.
He served a short prison term, and less than a month after being
paroled he was arrested for attempting to kidnap another dog.
He also
reportedly had sex with neighbors' chickens and killed them.
Deputy
Prosecutor Natalie Bokota also turned up an incident in his
background involving torturing the family cat in the microwave.
She said
He stalks animals, kills them and then has sex with them.
(Post-Tribune)
April, 1994 - Kingsport, Tennessee
A 26-year-old man was charged with animal cruelty for allegedly
sexually assaulting his dogs. The Sullivan County Sheriff's
Department acknowledged having received similar complaints in
the
past that it had been unable to corroborate. An anonymous 911
call led
a deputy sheriff to the man's residence where he reportedly
heard a
dog screaming in pain and then saw the man came outside pulling
up
his pants and zipping his zipper.The local humane society took
possession of seven dogs and three cats. An animal cruelty
investigator said one of the puppies show evidence of recent
penetration. A veterinarian determined that all the dogs were
sick and
suffered from malnutrition. (Kingsport Time-News)
July, 1991 - New Bedford, Massachusetts
An unknown assailant broke into a zoo and sexually assaulted a
tame
white-tailed deer and then beat the animal to death. The
injuries
included a fractured jaw and extensive bleeding from the rectum
and
vagina. (The Standard-Times)
January , 1989 - Jackson, Ohio
A man admitted to having sex with his small female dog while
his wife
was running an errand. Upon her return, she discovered evidence
of
intercourse with the dog and called the authorities. The man
also had a
history of domestic violence. He was sentenced to thirty days
in jail.
(Police Records)
Permission is granted for animalsav to post the article Horse Sexual
Abuse from the
Sept./Oct. 1996 issue of The Animals' Agenda magazine. Please include a
statement with the article that reads, Reprinted with permission from
The
Animals' Agenda, P.O. Box 25881, Baltimore, MD 21224; (410) 675-4566;
www.animalsagenda.org.
THE ANIMALS' AGENDA
SEPTEMBER-OCTOBER 1996 page 9
Horse Sexual Abuse
A repeat offender has been charged with sexually assaulting a horse in
Waupaca
county, Wisconsin (Vol.15, No. 61 pp. 29-
32). Sterling Rachwal, 32, is jailed in lieu of $10,000 cash bond and
has been charged with one count of cruefty to animals, a Class E
felony, in addition to burglary and bail-jumping charges.
On June 2, when John and Kandi Bever went to feed their pregnant
Arabian mare, Kyss, they discovered the horse laying on her side in
distress. Nearby was a pack of cigarettes and bootprints that later
turned out to match Rachwal's. A veterinarian determined that Kyss was
in shock from severe penetration injuries to the anal and vaginal areas.
Hours after the Bevers contacted the
authorites, deputes arrested Rachwal after serving a search warrant on
his home. Rachwal, who lives within walking distance of the Bevers'
farm, had a history of animal abuse convictons since 1982.
He has been convicted and sentenced three times, with the latest
convicton in 1993 resulting in a 14-year prison sentence for sexually
assaulting three horses, who were euthanized because of their injuries.
Rachwal's conviction was overturned on a technicality, and he was
awaiting a new trial in September when the incident at the Bever farm
occurred.
Kandi Bever reports that although
Kyss' injuries are healing and she is doing wonderfully, the mare was
clearly affected psychologically by the assault. The foal appears to be
in good health but whether or not Kyss will be able to give birth
normally is still unknown.
Rachwal's trial is scheduled for September, he has entered a plea
tantamount to not guilty by reason of insanity. As a repeat offender,
Rachwal faces a maximum prison sentence of 65 years. To ensure that
Rachwal is denied the opportunfty to hurt animals again, the
presiding judge should be encouraged to invoke the maximum penalty.
======
Repeat offender #10
[NOTE: a call to owners involved revealed the "suspect’s" name is
Daniel Bruce House]
Our Times Conejo Valley
Thursday, June 17, 1999
Suspect arrested in assaults on horses
Deputies won't name person arrested for sodomizing horses
in Agoura.
By CHRIS G. DENINA
AGOURA -- A man suspected of sexually assaulting several
horses was arrested June 6 by Los Angeles County
sheriff's deputies after horse owners along Cornell Road
told them their horses had been sodomized with unknown
instruments.
The suspect, whose name police would not release, posted bail
pending a hearing in August.
"There was a man arrested for, basically, bestiality," said Det.
Chris Germann of the Lost Hills Sheriff's Station.
At least three horses appear to have been assaulted. Germann
declined to discuss details of the ongoing investigation but said
the suspect could face felony charges of bestiality according to
the California penal code, as well as trespassing and vandalism.
Horse owners along Cornell Road have distributed fliers about
the attacks that name a suspect. They plan to hold a
neighborhood meeting June 28 to discuss ways to protect their
animals.
Patty Lucci, who lives in the 4000 block of Cornell Road, said
one of her two show horses was attacked.
Lucci said she realized something was wrong when she noticed
that Buddy, a 9-year-old gelding, had rope marks on his hind
legs, where he had apparently been tied up.
A horse owned by a neighbor across the street was also
victimized.
"When I heard about the male (horse) across the street, I called
he vet," Lucci said. "I'm alerting everybody that I know. If a horse
shows up with marks on his hind legs, check further." Lucci said
she does expect that Buddy will return to competition next year.
But until the investigation is completed, she rests uneasy.
"I've got the barn lights on all night long," Lucci said. "I've got the
floodlights on all night long. I'm getting very little sleep. I don't
know what else I can do except light the place up." Unfortunately,
said Sgt. Frank Bongiorno of the Los Angles County Animal
Care and Control, horses are sometimes more trusting than
other animals.
"Dogs are usually going to growl," Bongiorno said. "But horses
are usually much more approachable than a dog is, especially if
you're using food. And if they're already confined in a barn area,
they feel secure." Brian Reeves, 41, and his wife own three
horses that they keep on 180 acres off Cornell Road with other
horse owners. Reeves said his horses weren't touched, but that
one of the other dozen horses on the property was molested.
"One was attacked on our property and molested with
implements because there was some bleeding," Reeves said,
noting that they had a veterinarian look at the animal. "The
horse's legs were hobbled. They couldn't have done those
injuries to themselves."
==============================
Enumclaw WA case, and posted in it's entirety, none of the comments
below the double line regarding the case are mine:
=====================
NOTE: Enumclaw is a small town in rural south-western King County
[note from Editor of this homepage: Kristopher Jones <kjo...@tx3.com>
has written to me to tell me that Enumclaw is in _southeastern_ King
County, and rather rudely. If this is true (it's not on _my_ map),
then I
apologize profusely to the residents of Enumclaw. As you will soon
read, they have troubles enough]. Enumclaw is often satirized by
(self-describedly) more sophisticated people as having provided the
extras for the movie "Deliverance".
PROSECUTORS PERPLEXED BY ALLEGED BESTIALITY CASE
King County prosecutors expect to decide next week if charges will
be
filed in an Enumclaw case involving pygmy goats and sex.
The difficult questions the prosecutors face:
Should a 29-year-old man who allegedly had sex with the goats be
charged with a crime - perhaps burglary - for breaking into the goat
barn?
And should the angry 48-year-old goat owner, who blasted the
intruder
with a shotgun, be charged with assault?
"It's definitely one of the most bizarre cases we've seen in a long
time," said Dan Donohoe, a spokesman for the prosecutor's office.
County police had been called to the Enumclaw-area home at 3 a.m.
June
28 by the homeowner, who said he was awakened by commotion in the goat
barn and found the suspect there.
The goat owner told police the suspect had molested the goats
several
times before, Donohoe said.
Neither man was arrested. The suspect was taken to a hospital, for
removal of shotgun pellets imbedded in his knees.
A veterinarian who examined the goats found that several "had a
trauma to the genital areas," Donohoe said.
The homeowner had obtained an anti-harassment order from Aukeen
District
Court Feb. 28. He complained that he and his daughter had found the
suspect
in the goat pen on two previous occasions.
The court document ordered the suspect not to come within
one-quarter
of a mile of the homeowner's property.
The suspect, who has worked as a dishwasher in the Enumclaw area,
has
two previous burglary convictions.
In 1985 he was sentenced to 60 days in jail for stealing two rifles
from an Enumclaw residence. Two years later, he got a 90-day sentence
for stealing computer equipment from an Enumclaw business.
END OF QUOTED ARTICLE
First, please notice that the suspect was not charged with
bestiality.
Appearently having sex with goats is not a crime anymore (thank you,
ACLU). Nonetheless, I think that having sex with *someone else's* goats
still should not be legal, unless you get permission beforehand.
Second, I don't think the suspect is guilty of burglary because he
doesn't seem to have intended to steal the goats - just to borrow them
for a while.
Finally, Washington State now has a "3-strikes" law. This means that
if the suspect is convicted of burglary, then that plus his two previous
felony convictions results in a mandatory sentence of life without
parole.
Probably the suspect should be charged with cruelty to animals
(unless
he can show that the goats consented). Anyway, the legal issues raised
here are fascinating, and we are all looking forward to following this
case as it unfolds
=====================
Statement from Criminology Professor Piers Beirne:
Bestiality involves sexual coercion because animals are incapable of
genuinely saying 'yes' or 'no' to humans in forms that we can readily
understand. A different way of putting this is to suggest that if it is
true that we can never know what it is like to be a nonhuman animal, as
the philosopher Thomas Nagel (1974) has implied, then presumably we
will never know if animals are able to assent in their terms to human
suggestions for sexual intimacy. Indeed, if we cannot know whether
animals consent to our sexual overtures, then we are as much at fault
when we tolerate interspecies sexual relations as when we fail to
condemn adults who have sexual relations with infants or with children
or with other 'moral patients' to use Tom Regan's (1983) term who, for
whatever reason, are unable to refuse participation.
If it is right to regard unwanted sexual advances to women, to infants
and to children as sexual a ssault, then I suggest sexual advances to
animals should be viewed likewise. Moreover, like infants, young
children and other 'moral patients' (Regan, 1983), animals are beings
without an effective voice. Some animals, such as the cows and other
farmyard animals including those I viewed in the film Barnyard Love
(supra, pp. ) are not equipped to resist human sexual advances in any
meaningful way owing to their docile and often humanbred natures. Other
animals, in trying to resist human sexual advances, can certainly
scratch, bite, growl, howl, hiss and otherwise communicate protest
about unwanted advances.
But in most one on one situations an animal is incapable of enforcing
her will to resist sexual assault, especially when a human is
determined to effect his purpose. Moreover, animals are disadvantaged
in yet another way, for when they are subjected to sexual coercion and
to sexual assault, it is impossible for them to communicate the facts
of their abuse to those who might give them aid. In short, because
bestiality is in certain key respects so similar to the sexual assault
of women, children and infants, I suggest that it should be named
interspecies sexual assault. For many of the same reasons that, as it
applies to humans, the conce pt of sexual assault is more widely
applicable than that of rape so, too, interspecies sexual assault
comprises a wider range of actions than tho se found in dictionary
definitions of bestiality or in notions embedded in popular culture,
both of which tend to focus narrowly on penetration of the vagina, anus
or cloaca of an animal by a human penis.
On the contrary, sexism and speciesism operate not in opposition to
each other but in tandem. Inter species sexual assault is the product
of a masculinity that sees women, animals and nature as objects that
can be controlled, manipulated and exploited. Listen only to some of
the sexist language that prepares the way for bodily sexual assault
(and see Dunayer, 1995). Much of this is voiced in speciesist terms.
When a man describes women as 'cows', 'bitches', '(dumb) bunnies',
'birds', 'chicks', 'foxes', 'fresh meat', and their genitalia as
'beavers' or 'pussys', he uses derogatory language to distance himself
emotionally from, and to elevate himself above, his prey by relegat ing
them to a maleconstructed category of 'less than human' or, more imp
ortantly, 'less than me'. Reduced to this inferior status, both women
and nonhuman animals are thereby denied subjectivity by male predators
who c an then proceed to exploit and abuse them without guilt.
Unchallenged, sexist and speciesist terms operate in concert to
legitimate sexual assault s on women and animals.
ASAIRS Administrator
Kambic) wrote:
> >As Bill asked in so many words how many cases a year there are, I
> >thought I would just post a few of some cases *I* know about just
> from
> >people sending the things to me. I am not a reporter and dont get
> paid
> >to do legal work so I dont spend much time looking for cases. Many
> >others could have gone by that I am unaware of.
> Well, by my count you come up with 10 in ten years. Assuming you
> undercount by a factor
Like I said, which you seemed to have missed, I ONLY included SOME of
the cases *I* know of, and which included *repeat* offenders. I didn't
post them all, nor do I have access to Clifton Merritt's (editor
Animal-People magazine) information regarding the many cases he knows
of. He told me a year ago about his knowlege of many other I assume
minor cases, but he didn't have time nor wanted to be bothered with the
issue at the time. Maybe now he might provide some details.
> of two that is TWO per year for ten years. Too many? Yes.
*One* case is too many Bill.
>Cause
> for new legislation? No.
Did you even read what I posted, this is *not* "new" legislation as in
a whole new law, this is just adding sexual abuse or similar/related
wording with definitions and penalties to alreading *existing* animal
cruelty laws in place today. Neither I nor the HSUS is looking for
enactment of a "bestiality law", I have always promoted the idea of
simply adding additional termininology to already exisitng legislation.
> Do not take my statement as an endorsement of folks buggering sows
> or mares or whatever.
> Rather, it is the observation that in the great scheme of things,
> this is a disgusting,
> but fortunately, rare happening.
Not as rare as most people think, in fact, many activists I deal with
stated they had no idea this stuff even went on and thought it was just
a farm joke till they went and saw web sites, porn, cases and more.
> >Statement from Criminology Professor Piers Beirne:
> <deleted>
> The difficulty with the Professor's postition is that he requires
> that the animal's
> "consent" be obtainted prior to being touched by a human. This
> is, of course, absurd.
I am not sure that is what he is really saying, the paragraph out of
context from a MUCH larger work
may appear that way but the point was his statement when boiled down,
essentially is: that bestiality is sexual assault on an animal.
> Animals are chattels, like my pickup truck. I may do as I wish
> with my truck, as long as
> I do not offend local law (I must keep my brakes in order, lights
> working, etc.). But I
> could to out and shoot it with no legal consequence whatsoever.
> Ditto with my animals.
You could not not legally torture said animal, nor kill the animal in
violation of certain guidelines/laws.
> Now if another shoots my truck, that is vandalism at the minimum
> and that person is liable
> to prosecution because they injure my right to my property. Ditto
> with my animals.
Yes, but keep in mind many animals don't have much of a "book value",
in the case of pet dogs the max liability may be for replacement costs,
which for a mixed breed dog is essntially nothing, for a purebred,
maybe $500 to $1,000
> Animals are not persons and do not have rights.
No they don't, but neither do they deserve to be injured and tortured
for sexual or other reasons.
>People who
> husband animals have
> responsibilities.
That they do, which is part of the reason I am posting- so people who
own animals will be aware of this, and if they have high risks, to take
precautions. Precautions may include:
1) Background checks on new hires
2) Putting up a security light, maybe a lock on the door by the barn
3) Not leaving strange visitors alone with the animals
4) Checking up on any boarding facility if you plan to board an animal
for vacation
I know of one zoophile owned boarding stable in the Des Moines IA area
and one other in Oklahoma,
If I had their actual location it would have been posted, should I
learn that information it will be.
I also know the name and location of a veterinarian in training, in
Tennessee by the way...
a Mr Prater. But since he is into dogs it probably won't interest you.
And since you are in Tennessee, you should be familiar with the
"Amateur action BBS" case which was prosecuted in your state, a web
server owner in Calif who was distributing bestiality pornography among
others. The court docs I have mention the bestiality material at least
three times and as part of the counts in the case.
Anyway, It is obvious we disagree on this, that's fine, but let's not
waste any more of each other's time going in circles on this. If you
feel bestiality is a non issue, fine, please find another thread more
to your liking on an issue you agree with.
For anyone else, if they don't care that's fine too, I put the
information out and whether you choose to use it or not is your
business, the animals under your care are yours not mine.
Mike
ASAIRS Administrator
http://members.aol.com/animalsav
Bill Kambic
>In article <o3s75s81mjfmg3mn8...@news.bbn.com>, Joel B
<snipped>
>> Anecdotes aren't data.
This small bit of truth is always lost on True Believers.
>
>Sorry, but the information is part of public records, in any case I can
>see you missed the point anyhow.
>You might take a read at this humane society page on violence, it show
>several other serial murderers's prior violence of a general nature
>towards animals:
>
>http://www.teleport.com/~animals/violence.html
>
>As Bill asked in so many words how many cases a year there are, I
>thought I would just post a few of some cases *I* know about just from
>people sending the things to me. I am not a reporter and dont get paid
>to do legal work so I dont spend much time looking for cases. Many
>others could have gone by that I am unaware of.
Well, by my count you come up with 10 in ten years. Assuming you undercount by a factor
of two that is TWO per year for ten years. Too many? Yes. Cause for new legislation?
No.
Do not take my statement as an endorsement of folks buggering sows or mares or whatever.
Rather, it is the observation that in the great scheme of things, this is a disgusting,
but fortunately, rare happening.
>Statement from Criminology Professor Piers Beirne:
<deleted>
The difficulty with the Professor's postition is that he requires that the animal's
"consent" be obtainted prior to being touched by a human. This is, of course, absurd.
Animals are chattels, like my pickup truck. I may do as I wish with my truck, as long as
I do not offend local law (I must keep my brakes in order, lights working, etc.). But I
could to out and shoot it with no legal consequence whatsoever. Ditto with my animals.
Now if another shoots my truck, that is vandalism at the minimum and that person is liable
to prosecution because they injure my right to my property. Ditto with my animals.
Animals are not persons and do not have rights. People who husband animals have
responsibilities.
Charles A. Hall
ASAIRS Administrator wrote: <snip>
>
> You could not not legally torture said animal, nor kill the animal in
> violation of certain guidelines/laws.
Partially right, partially wrong. One can be charged/prosecuted for animal
abuse. It took insurance fraud to convict those Big Name GP Riders in
connection with them killing their horses that weren't performing up to par.
Nary a "murder" charge even mentioned against them, but fraud in that they
deliberately caused death to collect on insurance meant for accidental
death.
Diane
Joel B Levin
ASAIRS Administrator <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
}In article <o3s75s81mjfmg3mn8...@news.bbn.com>, Joel B
}Levin <j...@levin.mv.com> wrote:
}> In <830n56$li9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
}> Pet-Rights <Judit...@webtv.net> wrote:
}> }Here are two examples
}
}> Anecdotes aren't data.
}
}Sorry, but the information is part of public records,
It doesn't matter. Anecdotes are not data.
>plonk<
ASAIRS Administrator
Levin <j...@levin.mv.com> wrote:
> In <26f15c5e...@usw-ex0102-013.remarq.com>,
> ASAIRS Administrator <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Joel B
> }Levin <j...@levin.mv.com> wrote:
> }> In <830n56$li9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> }> Pet-Rights <Judit...@webtv.net> wrote:
> }> }Here are two examples
> }
> }> Anecdotes aren't data.
> }
their violent history and background along with their published facts
regarding sexual assaults, murders and tortures, that is more than
sufficient
information.
Serial murderer: Henry Lee Lucas:
By the time he was thirteen, Henry was almost completely obsessed by
sex. He began to trap animals so that he could use them in his private
sexual rituals, often torturing them to death. Bestiality became normal
behaviour. At about the same time he began to steal more regularly,
sometimes for food but more increasingly for money. Later Henry would
brag that he murdered for the first time in 1952, aged just fourteen.
Lucas told of how he had abducted a seventeen-year-old girl from a bus
stop and beat her until she was unconscious. He then dragged her to a
secluded spot and attempted to rape her. When the girl woke and started
to scream, Henry strangled her until she lay still. He claims that he
had no intention of killing the girl and told interviewers that it took
him a long time to get over the "terrible thing" that he had done. To
date, there is no record of such a crime having been committed.
Not long after the event, Henrys brother ran off and joined the Navy.
After he left, Henry spent less and less time at home. Most of the time
he wandered aimlessly through the district looking for trouble. It
wasnt long before he found it and was subsequently arrested for
breaking and entering. He was convicted and sentenced to the Beaumont
Training School for Boys in Virginia. The institution records indicate
that while there, Henry was disruptive and made numerous escape
attempts. He later formed an alliance with a black inmate and,
according to prison authorities, the relationship was ‘of a sexual
nature.’
One year later he was released. The records of his stay in Beaumont
describe him as being friendly one minute and broodingly dangerous the
next. The day after his release, Henry bragged of raping his
twelve-year-old niece. <B>For the next nine months, he worked as a farm
hand,</B>learning various skills until he was picked up for breaking
and entering a second time. He was convicted and, because he was now an
adult, sentenced to serve four years in Virginia State Penitentiary.
Peter Kurten
The Making of a Killer
..tortured dogs, and practiced
bestiality while killing the animal. Murdered or attempted to murder
over 50
men, women and children.
Unquestionably, the victim of a vicious background, Kurten was born in
Koln-Mullheim on the 26th May 1883. His childhood was spent in a
poverty-stricken, one room apartment; one of a family of thirteen whose
father was a brutal drunkard. There was a long history of alcoholism
and mental trouble on the paternal side of the family and his father
frequently arrived home drunk, assaulting the children and forcing
intercourse on the mother.
'If they hadnt been married, it would have been rape', Kurten once
remarked.
Irascible and self-possessed, Mr. Kurten was sexually uncontrolled and
was later jailed for three years for committing incest with Peters
sister, aged thirteen. Maternally, Krten seems to have originated from
fairly respectable stock.
..Kurten's sadistic impulses were awakened by the violent scenes in
his own home.
'The whole family suffered through his drinking, for when he was in
drink, my father was terrible. I, being the eldest, had to suffer most.
As you may well imagine, we suffered terrible poverty, all because the
wages went on drink. We all lived in one room and you will appreciate
what affect that had on me sexually.'<BR><B>
At the age of nine, Kurten befriended a dogcatcher who lived in the
same house, a degenerate who showed him how to masturbate and torture
dogs. Whereas a normal child would have reacted with emotional recoil
to this influence, the boy welcomed the friendship and a powerful and
most significant bond developed.</B> Around the same time, Kurten
drowned a schoolfellow while playing on a raft in the Rhine. When the
boys friend dived in to rescue him, he, too, was pushed under the raft
and held down until he suffocated.
The sexual urges were developing rapidly and <b>Kurten was soon
committing bestiality on sheep and goats in the nearby stables. It was
quickly discovered that he had his most powerful sensation when he
stabbed a sheep as he had intercourse, an act that was performed with
increasing frequency.</b>
Serial murderer information is highlighted from longer case history and
background information available at and curtesy of:
http://crimelibrary.com/
http://crimelibrary.com/serial2/kurten/4.htm
~plonk~
Mike
ASAIRS Administrator
http://members.aol.com/animalsav
* Sent from RemarQ http://www.remarq.com The Internet's Discussion Network *
Bill Kambic
<snipped>
>Like I said, which you seemed to have missed, I ONLY included SOME of
>the cases *I* know of, and which included *repeat* offenders. I didn't
>post them all, nor do I have access to Clifton Merritt's (editor
>Animal-People magazine) information regarding the many cases he knows
>of. He told me a year ago about his knowlege of many other I assume
>minor cases, but he didn't have time nor wanted to be bothered with the
>issue at the time. Maybe now he might provide some details.
OK, so how many are there? 100? 1000? 10,000? This is important because law enforcement
assets are limited and must be allocated to the most critical needs of a society.
>
>Did you even read what I posted, this is *not* "new" legislation as in
>a whole new law, this is just adding sexual abuse or similar/related
>wording with definitions and penalties to alreading *existing* animal
>cruelty laws in place today. Neither I nor the HSUS is looking for
>enactment of a "bestiality law", I have always promoted the idea of
>simply adding additional termininology to already exisitng legislation.
When you add "new" stuff to a statute you have a "new" statute. Since statutes are only
added to by legislation, any "new" stuff must be "new" legislation. QED.
>
>Not as rare as most people think, in fact, many activists I deal with
>stated they had no idea this stuff even went on and thought it was just
>a farm joke till they went and saw web sites, porn, cases and more.
Well then ENLIGHTEN US!!! How rare is rare? You have, so far woven a gossamer web of
innuendo and suspician without any real hard and fast data. This is the standard tactic
of any "true believer." Or, as Tail Gunner Joe used to say, "I have a list..."
>
>I am not sure that is what he is really saying, the paragraph out of
>context from a MUCH larger work
>may appear that way but the point was his statement when boiled down,
>essentially is: that bestiality is sexual assault on an animal.
My interpretation of the Professor tracks his words which, I presume, track his thoughts.
Sexual activity with an animal and "sexual assault" on an animal are different. An
assault is an action that puts a person in fear of death or serious bodily harm. A
battery is an unconsented to, unpriveldged touching of a person. Sadly, these terms are
frequently used interchangeably, with predictable results. Since an animal is not a
person you can neither assault nor batter one.
>
>You could not not legally torture said animal, nor kill the animal in
>violation of certain guidelines/laws.
Generally true. But if the kill is clean I can use pretty much any means I want.
>
>Yes, but keep in mind many animals don't have much of a "book value",
>in the case of pet dogs the max liability may be for replacement costs,
>which for a mixed breed dog is essntially nothing, for a purebred,
>maybe $500 to $1,000
What does value have to do with anything except the level of damages I might get? And,
even if I get only a dollar in compensatory damages, punatives can be pretty dramatic.
>
>No they don't, but neither do they deserve to be injured and tortured
>for sexual or other reasons.
OK.
>
>That they do, which is part of the reason I am posting- so people who
>own animals will be aware of this, and if they have high risks, to take
>precautions. Precautions may include:
>
>1) Background checks on new hires
You going to finance this?
>2) Putting up a security light, maybe a lock on the door by the barn
A light is OK; but a lock is useful primarily to ensure that animals stay inside in the
event of a fire and you can both collect the insurance and have a fine barbeque.
>3) Not leaving strange visitors alone with the animals
I don't generally do this anyway.
>4) Checking up on any boarding facility if you plan to board an animal
>for vacation
And look for what?
>I know of one zoophile owned boarding stable in the Des Moines IA area
>and one other in Oklahoma,
>If I had their actual location it would have been posted, should I
>learn that information it will be.
Kind of like a Megan's Law, 'eh?
>
>I also know the name and location of a veterinarian in training, in
>Tennessee by the way...
>a Mr Prater. But since he is into dogs it probably won't interest you.
You know there is only one vet school in TN and I know a few of the profs. What would I
find out if I were to make a call? And if this Mr. Prater exists how do think he might
feel about being defamed?
>
>And since you are in Tennessee, you should be familiar with the
>"Amateur action BBS" case which was prosecuted in your state, a web
>server owner in Calif who was distributing bestiality pornography among
>others. The court docs I have mention the bestiality material at least
>three times and as part of the counts in the case.
I'm not familiar with it. TN is a big state (about 750 miles from Johnson City to
Memphis, a distance only slightly less than that from Orange to El Paso).
>
>Anyway, It is obvious we disagree on this, that's fine, but let's not
>waste any more of each other's time going in circles on this. If you
>feel bestiality is a non issue, fine, please find another thread more
>to your liking on an issue you agree with.
Oh, since I do not sign onto your reasoning I cannot participate? Tell me, are you a
gauleiter or an obergrupenfueher? Or perhaps just a true admirer of the Kim family?
>For anyone else, if they don't care that's fine too, I put the
>information out and whether you choose to use it or not is your
>business, the animals under your care are yours not mine.
Yup.
calvin d howard
>On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:27:36 -0800, ASAIRS Administrator <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>I also know the name and location of a veterinarian in training, in
>>Tennessee by the way...
>>a Mr Prater. But since he is into dogs it probably won't interest you.
>
>You know there is only one vet school in TN and I know a few of the profs. What would I
>find out if I were to make a call? And if this Mr. Prater exists how do think he might
>feel about being defamed?
>>
well guess again....having called one of the associate profs down
there......the only Prater was there in the early '80's....he's now in
Ky....want me to call and ask him???
Tamara in TN
Pet-Rights
on the telephone.
I can assure you that Mike is an Animal Welfare Advocator and brings
awareness to various issues including "sexual abuse" to Animals.
The fact that he is an ex-zoophile, now recovered, just helps other Animal
Welfare Advocators learn more about this abuse issue. Mike provides and
indepth thorough insite on this issue, since he was once one of these
zoophiles.
I admire his courage to turn the cards after recovery and advocate against
what he once has done!
His bringing awareness to this issue has caused many others and even National
Welfare Organizations to now take this abuse issue seriously and even
advocate againts it themselves.
Because of Mike, many animals are becoming safe from this "real" abuse as
others learn about identifing it, reporting it and taking other appropriate
preventive and corrective actions against it.
Take a look a the HSUS, PETA, Envirolink, and many other organizations
websites and you will see the same awareness campaign on this issue because
of him!
Mike as been on Radio shows with this issue, online newsletters, magazines in
the UK, etc.
This abuse is "REAL" and a "SERIOUS" problem if not addressed NOW!
Judy
(founder of alt.pets.pet-rights and webtv's alt.discuss.pet-rights)
Pet-Rights
wka...@vic.com (Bill Kambic) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 17:23:45 -0800, ASAIRS Administrator <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >In article <o3s75s81mjfmg3mn8...@news.bbn.com>, Joel B
>
>
> >> Anecdotes aren't data.
>
> This small bit of truth is always lost on True Believers.
> >
> >see you missed the point anyhow.
> >You might take a read at this humane society page on violence, it show
> >several other serial murderers's prior violence of a general nature
> >towards animals:
> >
> >http://www.teleport.com/~animals/violence.html
> >
> >As Bill asked in so many words how many cases a year there are, I
> >thought I would just post a few of some cases *I* know about just from
> >people sending the things to me. I am not a reporter and dont get paid
> >to do legal work so I dont spend much time looking for cases. Many
> >others could have gone by that I am unaware of.
>
> of two that is TWO per year for ten years. Too many? Yes. Cause for new legislation?
> No.
>
> Do not take my statement as an endorsement of folks buggering sows or mares or whatever.
> Rather, it is the observation that in the great scheme of things, this is a disgusting,
> but fortunately, rare happening.
>
>
>
> The difficulty with the Professor's postition is that he requires that the animal's
> "consent" be obtainted prior to being touched by a human. This is, of course, absurd.
> Animals are chattels, like my pickup truck. I may do as I wish with my truck, as long as
> I do not offend local law (I must keep my brakes in order, lights working, etc.). But I
> could to out and shoot it with no legal consequence whatsoever. Ditto with my animals.
Can You? Check your local and State Animal Abuse/Cruelty laws, and you will
find this is not the case for all "Animals", with an attitude like that, you
can end up incarcerated with one of these animal sexual abusers and see the
transference of their patterns from animals to human first hand. I guess in
prison you would be property of the State and this would be ok then?
>
> Now if another shoots my truck, that is vandalism at the minimum and that person is liable
> to prosecution because they injure my right to my property. Ditto with my animals.
>
> Animals are not persons and do not have rights. People who husband animals have
> responsibilities.
Animals are living beings and thus have Natural Rights just as we Humans do,
we are not here to violate their rights in this way.
>
> Bill Kambic, Bright Star Farm, Kingston, TN
> Mangalarga Marchador: Style, Stamina, Symmetry, Smoothness
> http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/1816
>
--
Please Visit TOASTY'S PET-RIGHTS at:
http://members.tripod.com/~judymyers/index.html
Pet-Rights
Deborah Stevenson <stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
>
> On Sat, 11 Dec 1999, cory O'Carollan wrote:
>
> > "Terry von Gease" <t...@rose.hp.com> wrote:
> >
> > WOW!! I may be new to this group.. but the pro-beastiality wing AMAZES
> > me!!!
>
> It amazes me that you managed to see Terry's post as pro-bestiality.
>
>
> Then I'd have to put a lot of things even farther beyond condemnation.
> In another post you say you own a Percheron mare. Do you think
> that she is likely to suffer or even notice if some human male sticks his
> comparatively petite member in her vagina? Do you think that would be
> worse than starving her, or keeping her on such inappropriate pasture that
> with them is, IMHO, rather low on the list of likely ways to hurt them.
> rank my responses to animal abuse based on the level of disgust an action
> not about the animal--it is, as you suggest, a moral issue rather than one
> of humane treatment.
>
Remember most of these Zoophiles will also further abuse these horses
physicaly when sexualy abusing them. They usualy go hand in had with one
anothers ... read many of the Horse cases that Mike has posted in this thread
and see the other abuses they also do to accomplish their goal or to pnish
the animal fornon-complience with their goal!
> I think the zoophiles are generally pretty self-deceptive and unpleasant
> packages. That's a problem with them, however, not a measure of the
> horses' suffering. And I think the rabid antizoophiles are generally the
> same, and they're both equally obsessed with the same subject. Your
> newness to the group may mean that you haven't seen the latter in action,
> so you don't really see the context of the discussion.
>
> Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
> Sticking to same-species animals in Champaign, IL, USA
>
>
--
Deborah Stevenson
On Mon, 13 Dec 1999, ASAIRS Administrator wrote:
> In article <bv595ssl3qfa8344p...@news.bbn.com>, Joel B
> Levin <j...@levin.mv.com> wrote:
> > In <26f15c5e...@usw-ex0102-013.remarq.com>,
> > ASAIRS Administrator <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> > }In article <o3s75s81mjfmg3mn8...@news.bbn.com>,
> > Joel B
> > }Levin <j...@levin.mv.com> wrote:
> > }> In <830n56$li9$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> > }> Pet-Rights <Judit...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > }> }Here are two examples
> > }
> > }> Anecdotes aren't data.
> > }
> > }Sorry, but the information is part of public records, and given
> their violent history and background along with their published facts
> regarding sexual assaults, murders and tortures, that is more than
> sufficient information.
Not to draw the conclusions you did. The information would equally
support a legalization of bestiality on the grounds that the repression of
such behavior leads to acting out against people instead.
IOW, these anecdotes could equally suggest that you're more dangerous than
the people you object to.
The point isn't that that's so; the point is that your information doesn't
automatically mean what you want it to because you want it to. I also
think that your "even one is too much" notion has some Draconian
implications about resource allotment that you haven't considered, and
which Bill Kambic was attempting to point out to you. I get the strong
feeling that you consider anybody not rallying to your cause to be
pro-bestiality, even if what they're doing with their time instead is
joining up with Doctors without Borders to give aid to warstricken
children.
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Watching some Grand Prix jumping to conclusions in Champaign, IL, USA
Mary Papadopoulos
Pet-Rights wrote in response to Bill Kambic's assertion:
"Now if another shoots my truck, that is vandalism at the minimum
and that person is liable to prosecution because they injure my
right to my property. Ditto with my animals. Animals are not
persons and do not have rights. People who husband animals
have responsibilities."
>Animals are living beings and thus have Natural Rights just as we Humans
do,
>we are not here to violate their rights in this way.
Please clarify what you believe these Natural Rights are, and why animals
and humans are both entitled to them.
Mary Papadopoulos
Floyd, Virginia
Kris Carroll
> Take a look a the HSUS, PETA, Envirolink, and many other organizations
> websites and you will see the same awareness campaign on this issue because
> of him!
ACK! PETA "rakes in over $13 million each year from animal lovers who
donate to "help the animals." Yet in 1995, PETA gave less than $5,000 to
direct animal assistance in the U.S. The bulk of the money PETA raises
goes to high profile publicity campaigns and shenanigans designed to draw
media attention" http://www.ampef.org/
I'd guess those groups are using him and people like you to line their
pockets, not help your poorly thought out cause, nor am I sure they give a
damn about any actual, live animal.
INGRID NEWKIRK, Founder, PETA
"In the end, I think it would be lovely if we stopped this whole notion of
pets altogether." (Newsday, February 21, 1988)
FREEMAN WICKLUND, Editor, No Compromise
"Every new human brought into the world is a vote for humans and a death
wish for animals. Everywhere humans and animals interact, there is a river
of animal blood. The more humans there are, the more blood there will be."
(No Compromise, September 1996) "We need a drastic decrease in human
population if we ever hope to create a just and equitable world for
animals." (No Compromise, September 1996)
Kris C.
Charles A. Hall
<delete>
> You might add to my signiture line Member, State Bar of Texas (Retired)
and World's Oldest
> Law Clerk, Roane Co. TN District Attorney General's Office.
>
> Former Director, Roane Co. Humane Society
>
> Former Vice President, Roane Co. Humane Society
>
> Head, Large Animal Committee, Roane Co. Humane Society
>
>
> Bill Kambic, Bright Star Farm, Kingston, TN
Oiy. That's what I call Impressive (not to cross threads <G>)
Diane
Chuck
once your a wife beater you are always one.
An alcoholic, always an alcoholic.
YOUR AN ANIMAL FUCKER/RAPIST /KILLER
Mr Mike...ASAIRS Administrator
So says your own past posts I have been assaulted with.
Libelous MY ASS, nothing wrong with stating the truth.
you are trashing a once very helpful NG.
ASAIRS Administrator wrote:
> In article <87d7scb...@hasler.dhh>, John Hasler <jo...@dhh.gt.org>
> wrote:
> > Mike writes:
> > > Don't forget I used to *be* a zoophile until I got help-
>
Charles A. Hall
Yeah, but can you wiggle your butt and swish your tail like he did?
Diane
Bill Kambic <wka...@vic.com> wrote in message
news:3855aae7...@news.vic.com...
> On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:17:11 -0500, "Charles A. Hall"
<FinalJ...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> <personal self-agrandizement deleted>
>
> >
> >Oiy. That's what I call Impressive (not to cross threads <G>)
>
> Yeah, but I don't lock up and fall over if I don't get my daily banana!
And my feet are
> plenty big enough to support the rest of me.<g>
>
>
> Bill Kambic, Bright Star Farm, Kingston, TN
ASAIRS Administrator
Kambic) wrote:
> On Sun, 12 Dec 1999 21:27:36 -0800, ASAIRS Administrator
> <asa...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> <snipped>
> >Like I said, which you seemed to have missed, I ONLY included
> SOME of
> >the cases *I* know of, and which included *repeat* offenders. I
> didn't
> >post them all, nor do I have access to Clifton Merritt's (editor
> >Animal-People magazine) information regarding the many cases he
> knows
> >of. He told me a year ago about his knowlege of many other I
> assume
> >minor cases, but he didn't have time nor wanted to be bothered
> with the
> >issue at the time. Maybe now he might provide some details.
> OK, so how many are there? 100? 1000? 10,000? This is important
> because law enforcement
> assets are limited and must be allocated to the most critical
> needs of a society.
The total number is unknown to me and asking a question like that is
like asking how many people deal in illegal drugs! You know sa well as
I do that those CAUGHT represent many many more behind them who remain
UNCAUGHT.
In other words for every arrest for say, dealing crack cocaine there
might be lets say 1,000 others.
> >Did you even read what I posted, this is *not* "new" legislation
> as in
> >a whole new law, this is just adding sexual abuse or
> similar/related
> >wording with definitions and penalties to alreading *existing*
> animal
> >cruelty laws in place today. Neither I nor the HSUS is looking for
> >enactment of a "bestiality law", I have always promoted the idea
> of
> >simply adding additional termininology to already exisitng
> legislation.
> When you add "new" stuff to a statute you have a "new" statute.
> Since statutes are only
> added to by legislation, any "new" stuff must be "new"
> legislation. QED.
Whatever, I'm sure it differs in each state, what most people think of
with "new legislation" on this is a whole new complete, seperate so
called "anti- bestiality" law, that is not the case at all, there is no
intent to create such a stand-alone law from scratch, but to add this
issue by definition to exisitng cruelty/abuse laws. If that means
calling it a "new" law in some states, then I guess you can call it a
"new law"
> >Not as rare as most people think, in fact, many activists I deal
> with
> >stated they had no idea this stuff even went on and thought it
> was just
> >a farm joke till they went and saw web sites, porn, cases and
> more.
> Well then ENLIGHTEN US!!! How rare is rare?
Just for fun, do a search on any of the search engines for
"bestiality" "zoophilia" "zoophile" or any of the usual search words,
and you will find hundreds and hundreds of porn sites, almost all of
whom peddle pornography depicting sexual assaults on just about every
animal.
How about www.ianszoolinks.com
Note how many web sites that one links to which promote sex with
anaimals as an orientation like being gay.
Note there are several books on this, a TV documentary and the Jerry
Springer show all promoting the same.
Do you want the URL for the cal-zoo site, the one which had before it
was shut down for abuse- over 2,000 ads from people looking for sex
with animals or information or to trade animals or illegal porn? It now
has about 125 new ads.
> My interpretation of the Professor tracks his words which, I
> presume, track his thoughts.
His more complete article is on my web site, read it then.
> Sexual activity with an animal and "sexual assault" on an animal
> are different.
No, they are essentially one and the same
> assault is an action that puts a person in fear of death or
> serious bodily harm. A
> battery is an unconsented to, unpriveldged touching of a person.
> Sadly, these terms are
> frequently used interchangeably, with predictable results. Since
> an animal is not a
> person you can neither assault nor batter one.
Then what would you call raping a 40 pound female dog then dumping her
by the side of the road late at night if it's not "sexual assault on an
animal"??
> >Yes, but keep in mind many animals don't have much of a "book
> value",
> >in the case of pet dogs the max liability may be for replacement
> costs,
> >which for a mixed breed dog is essntially nothing, for a purebred,
> >maybe $500 to $1,000
> What does value have to do with anything except the level of
> damages I might get? And,
> even if I get only a dollar in compensatory damages, punatives can
> be pretty dramatic.
Again, convincing a court of "punitive damages" and collecting any
money from someone who has no job, no assets and is in jail are
additional aspects.
> >No they don't, but neither do they deserve to be injured and
> tortured
> >for sexual or other reasons.
> OK.
> >That they do, which is part of the reason I am posting- so people
> who
> >own animals will be aware of this, and if they have high risks,
> to take
> >precautions. Precautions may include:
> >1) Background checks on new hires
> You going to finance this?
Not up to me, it's up to the animal owner to decide if it's worth it
for their animals and peace of mind.
> >2) Putting up a security light, maybe a lock on the door by the
> barn
> A light is OK; but a lock is useful primarily to ensure that
> animals stay inside in the
> event of a fire and you can both collect the insurance and have a
> fine barbeque.
How many barns burn down on their own a y ear, do you know?
> >3) Not leaving strange visitors alone with the animals
> I don't generally do this anyway.
Very good policy
> >4) Checking up on any boarding facility if you plan to board an
> animal for vacation
> And look for what?
References, and not using a facility run by a young single male, can be
difficult but then the average
one doing this is a young usually single male.
> >I know of one zoophile owned boarding stable in the Des Moines IA
> area
> >and one other in Oklahoma,
> >If I had their actual location it would have been posted, should I
> >learn that information it will be.
> Kind of like a Megan's Law, 'eh?
No, it's a fact, the zoophile owners previously participated in
zoophile forums and chats where they let slip details. Another said he
was going to a horse training school (in the UK) and upon graduation he
was going to open a boarding facility. Another one worked for various
boarding facilities and after he molested mares he took photos of their
rear ends and their faces and put them up on his WEB SITE!
The IGHA horse rescue helped shut that site down and he was the
infamous "mare666" they mention on their web site.
There was one mare he wouldnt show the face of because he stated her
owner was on-line and would recognise her horse.
I find it disgusting that unknowing horse owners were paying for safe
boarding with a facility they trusted and having their animals used
this way.
> >I also know the name and location of a veterinarian in training,
> in
> >Tennessee by the way...
> >a Mr Prater. But since he is into dogs it probably won't interest
> you.
> You know there is only one vet school in TN and I know a few of
> the profs. What would I
> find out if I were to make a call? And if this Mr. Prater exists
> how do think he might
> feel about being defamed?
I say:
I have his personal signed snail-mail letter, with it's postmarked
envelope from Sparta, his home address included, as well as his
emails stating he was into having sex with his Mastiff, along with a
photo of his dog who lives with his parents while he attends vet
school. Do you need more?
I have the same on a married fellow named Gordon in Indiana who is an
insurance salesman with two kids and shows Samoyeds., one named "Uno"
the other named "Star". All of this information was turned over to the
HSUS and other groups a year ago.
Do you need more?
> >And since you are in Tennessee, you should be familiar with the
> >"Amateur action BBS" case which was prosecuted in your state, a
> web
> >server owner in Calif who was distributing bestiality pornography
> among
> >others. The court docs I have mention the bestiality material at
> least
> >three times and as part of the counts in the case.
> I'm not familiar with it. TN is a big state (about 750 miles from
> Johnson City to
> Memphis, a distance only slightly less than that from Orange to El
> Paso).
It made the news since the owner and his wife were residents of
California and the evidence was downloaded from their bbs by agents in
TN
Here is part of the case text:
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
Plaintiff-Appellee,
v.
ROBERT ALAN THOMAS (94-6648)
and CARLEEN THOMAS (94-6649),
Defendants-Appellants .
ON APPEAL from the United States District Court for the Western
District of Tennessee
Decided and Filed January 29, 1996
Before: MARTIN and BATCHELDER, Circuit Judges; EDMUNDS, District Judge.
NANCY G. EDMUNDS, District Judge.
Defendants Robert and Carleen Thomas appeal their convictions and
sentences for violating 18 U.S.C. ?? 1462 and 1465, federal obscenity
laws, in connection with their operation of an electronic bulletin
board. For the following reasons, we AFFIRM Robert and Carleen Thomas'
convictions and sentences.
Robert Thomas and his wife Carleen Thomas began operating the Amateur
Action Computer Bulletin Board System ("AABBS") from their home in
Milpitas, California in February 1991. The AABBS was a computer
bulletin board system that operated by using telephones, modems, and
personal computers. Its features included e-mail, chat lines, public
messages, and files that members could access, transfer, and download
to their own computers and printers.
Thereafter, Dirmeyer dialed the AABBS's telephone number, logged-on
and, using his computer/modem in Memphis, downloaded the GIF files
listed in counts 2-7 of the Defendants' indictments. These GIF files
depicted images of bestiality,
Dirmeyer also ordered six sexually-explicit videotapes from the AABBS
and received them via U.P.S. at a Memphis, Tennessee address.
a search warrant was issued by a U.S. Magistrate Judge for the
Northern District of California. The AABBS' location was subsequently
searched, and the Defendants' computer system was seized.
On January 25, 1994, a federal grand jury for the Western District of
Tennessee returned a twelve-count indictment charging Defendants Robert
and Carleen Thomas with the following criminal violations: one count
under 18 U.S.C. ? 371 for conspiracy to violate federal obscenity
laws--18 U.S.C. ?? 1462, 1465 (Count 1), six counts under 18 U.S.C. ?
1465 for knowingly using and causing to be used a facility and means of
interstate commerce--a combined computer/telephone system--for the
purpose of transporting obscene, computer-generated materials (the GIF
files) in interstate commerce (Counts 2-7), three counts under 18
U.S.C. ? 1462 for shipping obscene videotapes via U.P.S. (Counts 8-10),
one count of causing the transportation of materials depicting minors
engaged in sexually explicit conduct in violation of 18 U.S.C. ?
2252(a)(1) as to Mr. Thomas only (Count 11), and one count of
forfeiture under 18 U.S.C. ? 1467 (Count 12).
The computer-generated images and videotapes involved here portrayed
bestiality,
Defendants argue that the Government is required to present expert
testimony when sexually-explicit material is directed at a deviant
group. We disagree. Neither the United States Supreme Court nor this
court has adopted any such per se rule.
Furthermore, the Petrov court concluded that expert testimony is "not
required to establish the prurient appeal of photographs depicting
bestiality." Id. at 837.
For the foregoing reasons, this court AFFIRMS Robert and Carleen
Thomas' convictions and sentences.
Full text is at:
http://www.jmls.edu/cyber/cases/thomas.html
So as Mrs Myers posted, the material is illegal, so you might explain
how it is these people were arrested for essentially doing what
hundreds of other similar sites are doing right now while those go on
with business as usual.
> >Anyway, It is obvious we disagree on this, that's fine, but let's
> not
> >waste any more of each other's time going in circles on this. If
> you
> >feel bestiality is a non issue, fine, please find another thread
> more to your liking on an issue you agree with.
> Oh, since I do not sign onto your reasoning I cannot participate?
I am simply suggesting you are wasting your time, and wasting my time.
I don't like wasting my time where the effort is not helping animals.
I don't feel I need to waste further time with you after this, because
you obviously don't care. Why should I be bothered with further wasting
my time responding to you when there is absolutely no point to it.
I'll be back later with a regular periodic post or the FAQ on this
issue for those who are concerned about this issue and want to get
involved.
> >For anyone else, if they don't care that's fine too, I put the
> >information out and whether you choose to use it or not is your
> >business, the animals under your care are yours not mine.
Mike
ASAIRS Administrator and information coordinator
Tom Stovall
[deletia]
re: "Animals are chattels, like my pickup truck. I may do as I wish
with my truck, as long as I do not offend local law (I must keep my
brakes in order, lights working, etc.). But I could to out and shoot it
with no legal consequence whatsoever. Ditto with my animals..." -BK
>Can You?...
Certainly.
>Check your local and State Animal Abuse/Cruelty laws, and you will
>find this is not the case for all "Animals"...
You would do well to heed your own advice. Assuming the legal possession
of a firearm, compliance with all applicable statutes and whatnot
relative to the discharging of a firearm, disposal of the carcass, etc.,
any animal - pet, livestock, exotic - lives or dies at the owner's
pleasure. To be sure, one can't cause one's chattels pain and suffering,
but one can damn sure put a bullet in a vital spot if one chooses to do
so.
>with an attitude like that, you can end up incarcerated with one of >these animal sexual abusers and see the transference of their patterns >from animals to human first hand...
Fools like yourself make the so-called "animal rights" movement smell
like a bowel movement. In point of fact, one's lawful actions do not
cause incarceration, no matter how much the mouth breathers and bottom
feeders of the lunatic fringe feel they should. Furthermore, only a
minuscule portion of convicted felons are animal abusers. The majority
of inmates in our prisons are there, directly or indirectly, because of
drug related offenses.
>I guess in prison you would be property of the State and this would be
>ok then?...
With similar logic, one might inquire as to how many folks will be
exposed to various social diseases after you decide to turn charity
tricks.
re: "Animals are not persons and do not have rights. People who husband
animals have responsibilities..." -BK
>
>Animals are living beings and thus have Natural Rights just as we >Humans do...
Whatever gave you the incredibly silly idea that any animal, human or
otherwise, is endowed with "Natural Rights?" ALL "rights" are won and
held by force of might. In a society, the only "rights" held by any
animal, including man, are endowed by societal imperative, they damn
sure don't come naturally.
>we are not here to violate their rights in this way.
Unless you are afflicted with some form of parasite, there is only
yourself, there is no "we." On this forum, misuse of the first person
plural in an attempt to add weight to one's arguments will earn a bit of
derisive laughter and solicitous inquiries as to the health of
one's vermin, but it won't do much in the way of advancing one's point
of view. Besides, since animals have no intrinsic rights, it would be
impossible to "violate" that which they do not have.
Tom Stovall CJF
Farrier, Blacksmith, Former Rodeo Cowboy,
Avid Hunter & Fisherman, Music Critic
sto...@wt.net
http://web.wt.net/~stovall
Cleveland Amory was a boil on the butt of reason.
Charles A. Hall
Now, Bill, you know you must answer on the grounds that if you don't, you'll
be revealing your N/A status
<G>
Diane
Bill Kambic <wka...@vic.com> wrote in message
news:3855b3dc...@news.vic.com...
> On Mon, 13 Dec 1999 21:29:00 -0500, "Charles A. Hall"
<FinalJ...@prodigy.net> wrote:
>
> >
> >Yeah, but can you wiggle your butt and swish your tail like he did?
>
> I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it might tend to
incriminate me.
Deborah Stevenson
On Tue, 14 Dec 1999, cory O'Carollan wrote:
> Deborah Stevenson <stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu> wrote:
>
> Do you think
> >that she is likely to suffer or even notice if some human male sticks his
> >comparatively petite member in her vagina?
>
> Well you are right... I have to admit.... And I do have a petite
> "member"... so I suppose you wouldn't mind if I fucked you??
Hey, you said I wouldn't notice, so maybe you already did :-).
> How about
> your mom?... Maybe your daughter... or how about your son ... right in
> his tight little ass!!!!
I think I find the idea considerably less fascinating than you do, and I
doubt you're doing the antizoophiles any favors :-).
You're saying that if it's not okay with me for you to have sex with small
boys it shouldn't be okay with me for you to have sex with a horse, right?
Shouldn't that mean if it's not okay with me for you to buy and castrate
small boys it shouldn't be okay with me for you to buy and castrate
horses? Why are you seeing the lack of consent in the latter situation
irrelevant? I think it's because you're aware that horses aren't actually
children, or indeed human, and that they're in fact not possessed of the
same judgment or the same rights. I think that you're understandably
upset by the sexual component of this particular act and that in the heat
of the moment you're overlooking the fact that you do actually acknowledge
this difference.
..... Because study after study says that
> "sociopathic behavior manifests itself , often, in early, similar
> zooaphilic abuse"
> (Gerome Melitzer, PhD, Cornell)
Unfortunately, what you need to claim (with a better cite than "study
after study") is that early zoophilic abuse is a reliable predictor of
sociopathic behavior, which isn't the same thing as the above claim.
And that's a separate issue. The horse doesn't give two hoots if the
person dealing with her is going to kill a person later; it doesn't change
the animal's experience in the slightest any more than the person's later
becoming a saint would. If your problem with zoophiles is that they'll become
sociopaths, I don't see how you envision that as an animal welfare issue.
> Do you think that would be
> >worse than starving her, or keeping her on such inappropriate pasture that
> >she foundered repeatedly?
>
> No, dimwit...
Is that a knee-jerk "no" or did you really think about it? When people
talk about foundered horses this sort of violent response doesn't tend to
get elicited--I wonder if you do actually think this is worse.
> Is crusning your skull with a hammer.. worse than
> breaking your ribs with my fist????? yes... it probably is... but does
> it make it ok???
But from the sounds of Bill's law reports causing animals physical pain is
already dealt with under the relevant legal statutes. Are you suggesting
that if it doesn't cause the animal pain it's nonetheless an equivalent
animal welfare issue? That it's impossible to have sexual contact with an
animal without causing it pain? That the sexual component makes the
horse suffer in some special way that merely pain wouldn't?
I think the sexual component makes it more upsetting to people. And I'd
like to see animal welfare laws focus on the damage to the animals, not
human's sensibilities. You want to talk about the mental health of
zoophilia, that's a whole 'nother issue :-). But we're talking about
legislation. And I don't see that in a legal matter addressing the
sensation the *horse* undergoes the sexual excitement or lack thereof of
the *human* is relevant.
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Thinking horses abjure righteous indignation in Champaign, IL, USA
ASAIRS Administrator
(C.M.Newell) wrote:
> >The IGHA horse rescue helped shut that site down and he was the
> >infamous "mare666" they mention on their web site.
> Keep digging. You just put yourself in the hole with a group being
> investigated for mail fraud and theft.
> Remember all those hackney ponies that were seized in Kansas awhile
> back? IGHA/HorseAid got their foot in the door, and collected
> "adoption fees" of $200 per pony. In return, the adopters were
> supposed to get the ponies freeze barnaded by IGHA with their
> infamous
> "no kill" brand. Guess what? The branding still hasn't happened,
> and
> the volunteers who were promised they would be reimbursed by IGHA
> for
> their not insignificant out of pocket expenses, haven't seen a
> dime.
> --CMN,DVM
I have nothing to do with *any* groups, nor donate money to any of
them, I do exchange information.
But as for the rest of your post:
I hope you are right in your public claims doctor, I'm sure you won't
mind if I forward you post to their *legal dept*. legal @igha.org
Mike
ASAIRS Administrator
iras...@aol.com (IRAshling) wrote:
> I don't care whether or not you still call yourself a zoophile.
> Point is, you
> still had an interest in it at once time.
"at one time" is not "today", and I don't fall for that "once and
alcoholic always" line of garbage, that may be true if the person is
FORCED to get help, I was not.
> And no matter
> how much they beg for forgiveness, or repent, they will always be
> a murderer or
> will always be a pedophile.
Well I never begged for "forgiveness" or "repented", I had a problem
and dealt with it on my own accord because I *wanted to*, case closed.
Now I work on the other side *against* it.
>You are
> and always
Wrongo "doctor", when you actually obtain your degree in human
psychology let us know, for now, leave
that issue up to the real doctors who actually went to school to study
it for years to obtain a degree and license. Pedophiles and murderers
don't go voluntarily for help they have to be forced.
My web sites have been up for almost two years, thus far only ONE
zoophile wrote asking for help, and he is getting help for porn
addiction and zoophilia.
> By your posting all of these stories of screwed up
> humans having
> sexual relationships with animals, you are just giving the subject
> more
> exposure.
More exposure??? more than the big 8 search engines that index every
one of those forums?
More than the fact that Amazon.com and Barnes and Noble are selling
books promoting bestiality?
More than the fact that there are now *several* newsgroups devoted to
the issue of promoting bestiality?
More than the fact that there are hundreds of web sites, ftp sites and
every IRC chat system is full of animal sex promoting channels?
~Good~
It's time people START hearing more about this issue instead of it's
being swept under the rug as though it didn't exist. That's the trouble
today, it's too easy to ignore reality by tuning out because the
subject is "disturbing".
>This is one subject I do not want to hear about.
You are here reading this thread on your own volition, no one is
forcing you here.
Would you rather read about the kids who set fire to dogs? How about
the guy who dragged his 13 year old dog 6 blocks behind his truck?
>All
> that has to be said is that if someone has the balls to mess with me
or mine in
> ANY way, they
> better have some damn good life insurance. Period.
> ~Ed
Very good, then we can count you in as someone who cares about your
animals and would protect them from sexual assaults. So we made contact
here!
C.M.Newell
wrote:
>Take a look a the HSUS, PETA, Envirolink, and many other organizations
>websites
Alternatively, *you* could visit deja news and get a general
idea what many of us here think of HSUS and PETA, two groups who don't
spend a cent on direct aid to animals, but seem to have *very*
well-heeled executives.
--CMN,DVM
"The morning sun shall dawn again, but never more with thee
Shall I gallop o'er the desert paths , where we were wont to be;
Evening shall darken on the earth, and o'er the sandy plain
Some other steed, with slower step, shall bear me home again."
==The Arab's Farewell to His Steed
Bill Kambic
<massive snipping>
>Can You? Check your local and State Animal Abuse/Cruelty laws, and you will
>find this is not the case for all "Animals"
OK. You read TN Statute 39-14-205 et seq. and tell that there is anything here that
prevents me from euthanizing every four legged crittur on the place at my pleasure.
>, with an attitude like that, you
>can end up incarcerated with one of these animal sexual abusers and see the
>transference of their patterns from animals to human first hand. I guess in
>prison you would be property of the State and this would be ok then?
My, aren't you an ignorant, arrogant snot. Any time you want to match numbers on volume
of animals removed from the care of unfeeling and/or incompetant owners (with and without
judicial assistance) just "bring it on."
In the unlike event I ever end up "custodia legis" I do not become the "property" of the
state. I would lose substantial civil rights, but I don't become a "chattel."
On the other hand, all my animals are my property. I may do with them as I will (subject
only to very broad limitations).
And, since pets are animals, they do not have rights.
>Animals are living beings and thus have Natural Rights just as we Humans do,
>we are not here to violate their rights in this way.
Horsefeathers.
You might add to my signiture line Member, State Bar of Texas (Retired) and World's Oldest
Law Clerk, Roane Co. TN District Attorney General's Office.
Former Director, Roane Co. Humane Society
Former Vice President, Roane Co. Humane Society
Head, Large Animal Committee, Roane Co. Humane Society
Bill Kambic
<personal self-agrandizement deleted>
>
>Oiy. That's what I call Impressive (not to cross threads <G>)
Yeah, but I don't lock up and fall over if I don't get my daily banana! And my feet are
plenty big enough to support the rest of me.<g>
Bill Kambic
<massive snipping with front end loader and detrious place in manure spreader>
>The total number is unknown to me and asking a question like that is
>like asking how many people deal in illegal drugs! You know sa well as
>I do that those CAUGHT represent many many more behind them who remain
>UNCAUGHT.
>In other words for every arrest for say, dealing crack cocaine there
>might be lets say 1,000 others.
Actually, case statistics can be obtained fairly easily. And the total number of uses can
be determined without all that much effort.
>Whatever,
The not so elegant surrender of the teenager in discussion.
> I'm sure it differs in each state, what most people think of
>with "new legislation" on this is a whole new complete, seperate so
>called "anti- bestiality" law, that is not the case at all, there is no
>intent to create such a stand-alone law from scratch, but to add this
>issue by definition to exisitng cruelty/abuse laws. If that means
>calling it a "new" law in some states, then I guess you can call it a
>"new law"
Like the umpire, I calls it like I sees it.
>> Well then ENLIGHTEN US!!! How rare is rare?
>
>Just for fun, do a search on any of the search engines for
>"bestiality" "zoophilia" "zoophile" or any of the usual search words,
>and you will find hundreds and hundreds of porn sites, almost all of
>whom peddle pornography depicting sexual assaults on just about every
>animal.
Nope. You assert it is pervasive. Back it up. That is your job.
>His more complete article is on my web site, read it then.
Nope. If there is more that is relevant, post it.
>No, they are essentially one and the same
You did not address one of my points.
>
>Then what would you call raping a 40 pound female dog then dumping her
>by the side of the road late at night if it's not "sexual assault on an
>animal"??
Vandalism. (Note, you can't rape a dog because rape is the sexual penetration of a
non-consenting human by another human. You will note that I am such a 90's kind of guy I
do not limit the definition by making it a requirement that the victim be female.)
>
>Again, convincing a court of "punitive damages" and collecting any
>money from someone who has no job, no assets and is in jail are
>additional aspects.
Irrelevant.
>
>> >I also know the name and location of a veterinarian in training,
>> in
>> >Tennessee by the way...
>> >a Mr Prater. But since he is into dogs it probably won't interest
>> you.
>> You know there is only one vet school in TN and I know a few of
>> the profs. What would I
>> find out if I were to make a call? And if this Mr. Prater exists
>> how do think he might
>> feel about being defamed?
>
>I say:
>I have his personal signed snail-mail letter, with it's postmarked
>envelope from Sparta, his home address included, as well as his
>emails stating he was into having sex with his Mastiff, along with a
>photo of his dog who lives with his parents while he attends vet
>school. Do you need more?
>I have the same on a married fellow named Gordon in Indiana who is an
>insurance salesman with two kids and shows Samoyeds., one named "Uno"
>the other named "Star". All of this information was turned over to the
>HSUS and other groups a year ago.
>Do you need more?
Nope. Will make some inquiery.
>
>> >Anyway, It is obvious we disagree on this, that's fine, but let's
>> not
>> >waste any more of each other's time going in circles on this. If
>> you
>> >feel bestiality is a non issue, fine, please find another thread
>> more to your liking on an issue you agree with.
>
>> Oh, since I do not sign onto your reasoning I cannot participate?
>
>I am simply suggesting you are wasting your time, and wasting my time.
>I don't like wasting my time where the effort is not helping animals.
I help animals a lot. See my self-aggrandizing ending to another note in this thread.
Want to stack nickels with me?
>I don't feel I need to waste further time with you after this, because
>you obviously don't care. Why should I be bothered with further wasting
>my time responding to you when there is absolutely no point to it.
You, also, are an ignorant, arrogant snot.
>
>I'll be back later with a regular periodic post or the FAQ on this
>issue for those who are concerned about this issue and want to get
>involved.
Oh, joy. I wait with baited breath.
Bill Kambic
>
>Yeah, but can you wiggle your butt and swish your tail like he did?
I refuse to answer that question on the grounds that it might tend to incriminate me.