Barney Ward's reply to John Strassburger Editorial
Kris Carroll
> I don't understand. Is he being fined for a fashion faux pas
Stuffing shards of plastic in your horse's galloping boots is a little
more than a fashion no no. So's poling with tacks/nails stuck in the
bamboo.
KC
Tom Stovall
Bethe Blasienz wrote:
>When McLain and his horse Beneton (sp?) were at Aachen, an FEI steward >in the collecting ring noticed shards of plastic dropping out of the
>horses' galloping boots as the horse departed from the competition ring
>back into the collecting ring (I believe it was the hind leg galloping
>boots though I cannot be sure). At any competition, it is the riders'
>responsibility to know what is going on with his horse at all times...
In racing, the trainer of record is responsible, no matter who saddles
the horse.
>An inquiry was held by the FEI. The results of that inquiry was a fine
>and suspension at international competition...
I'm going to express my considerable ignorance: Why would "shards of
plastic" in a jumper's galloping boots be grounds for FEI suspension?
How exactly would they be used to cheat? Is it an attempt to keep a
jumper from "feeling his timber" by sensitizing the lower leg?
Tom Stovall CJF
Farrier & Blacksmith
sto...@wt.net
http://web.wt.net/~stovall
Coming soon.
"Spring shoes & hoofworms - life in the farrier fast lane"
Susan Peters
ignorance, and that he was being set up by jealous competitors from
other countries.
--
susan peters ~ star...@idt.net
Kris Carroll
> I hope they never let Barney back in
> and I hope his rotten kid gets his ass kicked out permanently too.
Is that spittle on your chin dear? I think judging this mess is better
left to the courts than the hoi polloi. Lest we forget...
It was at Bramham where Phillipps was the unfortunate sufferer of
victimisation at the hands of many of her fellow riders. It was the
culmination of Coral Cove's disqualification from the World Championships
in Italy last September, when a urine test was found to contain more than
the permitted level of the pain-killing drug salicylic acid. The team
manager, Giles Rowsell, and the team veterinary surgeon, Andy Bathe, who
admitted having injected the horse, subsequently resigned. Phillipps
always maintained she had done nothing wrong. The horse's inevitable
disqualification led to the team losing both its bronze medal and
qualification for next year's Olympic Games, while Phillipps was suspended
for a month. However, the Judicial Committee of the International
Equestrian Federation specifically stated that "there was no deliberate
attempt by Polly Phillipps to affect the performance of Coral Cove". This
was not good enough for her critics, however, who wanted her banned from
competing at Bramham. It said a lot for her courage and talent that she
was able to get so near to victory there. She focused on what she was
doing, adding: "After all, we do this for fun." She decided that the best
way to clear her name was to appeal against her suspension which has
consequently been held in abeyance, to the Court of Arbitration in Sport.
(originally from http://www.telegraph.co.uk)
If the Chronicle is going to stand as moral arbiter, when can we expect
their apology for naming Bruce Davidson Horseman of the Year shortly after
his drug bust in NZ?
Kris C.
Bethe Blasienz
Horse website, Barney Ward (the fellow who went to jail for insurance fraud for
2 or so years) responded to John Strassburger's editorial in last week's issue
or perhaps the issue before that. I found it interesting that Barney Ward is
still trying to appeal to the AHSA to attend AHSA sanctioned shows to see his
son compete. He has been suspended from the AHSA for 15 years. The website
is:
Click on the Discussion Forums and then go to Letters to the Editor and
Commentary. Some folks have already responded to Barney's response to John,
myself included. Some folks feel that Barney and his son McLain are "needed"
in the show jumping discipline and some folks feel neither one deserve a 2nd
chance. McLain has been suspended for 8 months by the FEI and fined about
$7,000 (at least I think that's how much it came to in American dollars) for
the plastic seen coming out of his galloping boots at Aachen this past May I
think it was. I have heard McLain wants to try and qualify for a spot on
USET's team heading to Sydney.
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Sheryl Huckaby
>McLain has been suspended for 8 months by the FEI and fined about
>$7,000 (at least I think that's how much it came to in American dollars) for
>the plastic seen coming out of his galloping boots at Aachen this past May
I don't understand. Is he being fined for a fashion faux pas or am I asking
something beyond stupid?
Sheryl
Ashland City, Tennessee
If a small thing has the power to make you angry, does that not indicate
something about your size? - Sydney J. Harris
Bethe Blasienz
>I don't understand. Is he being fined for a fashion faux pas or am I asking
>something beyond stupid?
>
No, you're not asking something beyond stupid. When McLain and his horse
Beneton (sp?) were at Aachen, an FEI steward in the collecting ring noticed
shards of plastic dropping out of the horses' galloping boots as the horse
departed from the competition ring back into the collecting ring (I believe it
was the hind leg galloping boots though I cannot be sure). At any competition,
it is the riders' responsibility to know what is going on with his horse at all
times. An inquiry was held by the FEI. The results of that inquiry was a fine
and suspension at international competition.
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Sheryl Huckaby
>Stuffing shards of plastic in your horse's galloping boots is a little
>more than a fashion no no. So's poling with tacks/nails stuck in the
>bamboo.
Thanks to both of you. I didn't get it clearly that it was the horse's boots -
LOL not reading for comprehension I read it as the rider's boots. It makes
much more sense now.
Rosy
>>something beyond stupid?
it's not a fashion faux pas... the plastic in the boots was in the form of
sharp plastic chips that would dig themselves into the horses skin if he
touched a jump. Pretty sick, huh?
One must wonder about morals in that household.
Schmdthaus
<<I found it interesting that Barney Ward is
still trying to appeal to the AHSA to attend AHSA sanctioned shows to see his
son compete. He has been suspended from the AHSA for 15 years.>>
Kind of interesting to me, in light of the Boggs vs. IAHA fiasco. I just do not
understand -- seems to me a "normal" human being, caught hands down and
publically punished, would want to reinvent himself and become incognito!
Laurie
TrinityApp
--> <<I found it interesting that Barney Ward is
Anyone who did the horrible things either of these two doorknobs did to
horses can't be construed as normal. The fact that neither have the talent
to make a life outside of horses and they both possess the ego that tells
them they are being wronged is evident. I hope they never let Barney back in
and I hope his rotten kid gets his ass kicked out permanently too. As for
Boggs, he should have been tossed years ago, I hope they can make this one
stick.
Tracy Meisenbach
http://www.users.lynchburg.net/trinityapp/
Updated 10-17-99
Trinity Appaloosa Farm
http://www.stylinontheweb.com/receq/
Horse Diary latest entry 11-26-99
R Bishop
schmd...@aol.com (Schmdthaus) wrote:
>Bethe wrote:
>
><<I found it interesting that Barney Ward is
>still trying to appeal to the AHSA to attend AHSA sanctioned shows to see his
>son compete. He has been suspended from the AHSA for 15 years.>>
>
>Kind of interesting to me, in light of the Boggs vs. IAHA fiasco. I just do not
>understand -- seems to me a "normal" human being, caught hands down and
>publically punished, would want to reinvent himself and become incognito!
Yeah. They should just keep their head down, take their punishment and stop
whining. It just makes them look bad and they need to 'take it like a man'...
BTW, did you hear that a very devestating 'altered' photo of Boggs was posted
all over the place at The Buckeye? Seems that someone got very creative and
printed off dozens of the photos, with 'neck' surgery.
>
>Laurie
Sue, who didn't get a copy, durn it
The Real Millenium starts January 1, 2001
Or 10/4/1997
Deborah Stevenson
On 29 Nov 1999, Schmdthaus wrote:
> Bethe wrote:
>
> <<I found it interesting that Barney Ward is
> still trying to appeal to the AHSA to attend AHSA sanctioned shows to see his
> son compete. He has been suspended from the AHSA for 15 years.>>
>
> Kind of interesting to me, in light of the Boggs vs. IAHA fiasco. I just do not
> understand -- seems to me a "normal" human being, caught hands down and
> publically punished, would want to reinvent himself and become incognito!
Sure, that's one way to react when you're caught in the wrong. Another is
to say "I didn't do it, it's not my fault, you all are stupid for caring,
and this is totally unfair." You may be able to call some other examples
of this to mind :-). My guess is that the mindset that does this in the
first place is a lot likelier to go for the defensive denial than the
admission.
I can't retrieve threads these days, so I'll piggyback here. The Tom
Bass book is called _From Slave to World-Class Horseman: Tom Bass_,
it's by J. L. Wilkerson, and it's from Acorn Books. There aren't many
photos, unfortunately, but there are some. And since I haven't read it
yet, that's all I can really tell you about it :-). I may be asking about
details later on, too.
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Rolling into the workweek in Champaign, IL, USA
PeabodyFox
>From: bet...@cs.com (Bethe Blasienz)
>Barney Ward is
>still trying to appeal to the AHSA to attend AHSA sanctioned shows to see his
>son compete.
Barf! That's like inviting Jeffrey Dahlmer to your family picnic! Killers are
killers. Crooks are crooks. Liars are liars.
>Some folks feel that Barney and his son McLain are "needed"
>in the show jumping discipline
Needed for the win? What does a win mean if it's achieved through cheating,
lying and ABUSE?
>McLain has been suspended for 8 months by the FEI and fined about
>$7,000
Should have been banned forever. Should have been fined $250,000+
>I have heard McLain wants to try and qualify for a spot on
>USET's team heading to Sydney
If there is a god, please let's hope the right thing is done. NO McLain!! I
am putting my hopes on the fact that there are some REAL horsemen out there...
the ones making the decisions. DON'T LET US DOWN! McLain seems to be an
EMBARRASMENT to our country, and a disgrace to the sport.
Deborah Stevenson
On 29 Nov 1999, PeabodyFox wrote:
> >From: bet...@cs.com (Bethe Blasienz)
> >Some folks feel that Barney and his son McLain are "needed"
> >in the show jumping discipline
>
> Needed for the win? What does a win mean if it's achieved through cheating,
> lying and ABUSE?
I'm curious. Does anybody know of similar incidences with low-profile
competitors at smaller shows? How do the penalties compare between the
two? Seems to me it's possible that the big names are getting off easier;
it's also possible they're getting whacked harder.
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Wondering about public-relations ethics in Champaign, IL, USA
Robert Johnson, Jr.
Tom Stovall wrote in message <3841E4D0...@wt.net>...
[...]
>I'm going to express my considerable ignorance: Why would "shards of
>plastic" in a jumper's galloping boots be grounds for FEI suspension?
>How exactly would they be used to cheat? Is it an attempt to keep a
>jumper from "feeling his timber" by sensitizing the lower leg?
That's precisely what it is. A very refined form of "poling" which
encourages the horse to snatch his knees up to his eyeballs. Most jumpers
use an open front boot to allow the horse to feel the sting if he hits a
rail. This usually makes the horse come back brighter to the next fence
(considering he's found the right distance, etc.). The plastic shards were
suspected of encouraging the horse to be that much more careful.
Robby
Madeline Rockwell
Susan Peters <star...@idt.net> wrote in message
news:EO5BOE3uxuhwin...@4ax.com...
> Wasn't this McLain's second offense? I believe both times he claimed
> ignorance, and that he was being set up by jealous competitors from
> other countries.
I would love to see this rush to judgment juggernaut slow down. The chips
were seen in the area where the boots were checked, but were not seen
"falling out of Benetton's boots." The attending vet stated that there was
no evidence that the chips, if present, had actually done anything. And that
they should have left indentations if they were there at all..
My understanding is that MW took and passed a polygraph. He is voluntarily
serving his suspension now, while his appeal is underway, in order that it
will be over before Olympic trials, no matter what.
Just because Barney Ward is a convicted felon does not mean that his son is
following in his footsteps. Wait until the results are all in before you
condemn. Jealousy in high places is not unknown, especially among the horse
dealers in Europe who sold the Wards their "second class" stock and laughed
all the way to the bank. Until the same horses came back to Europe and
kicked butt. it reads like a Dick Francis novel to me, and at this point I'm
inclined to see McLean as the protagonist.
I hope I'm right, because McLean really is THAT good...
madeline
TrinityApp
-- > Is that spittle on your chin dear? I think judging this mess is better
> left to the courts than the hoi polloi.
No spit, I ceased drooling as a child. The hoi polloi have no opinion that
counts past the fact that some very talented and valuable equines are dead
because of a sorry ass greedy bastard.
The team
> manager, Giles Rowsell, and the team veterinary surgeon, Andy Bathe, who
> admitted having injected the horse, subsequently resigned. Phillipps
> always maintained she had done nothing wrong.
Sure she did, she let some idiot put a needle in her horse. Vast stupidity
on the part of the owner.
The horse's inevitable
> disqualification led to the team losing both its bronze medal and
> qualification for next year's Olympic Games, while Phillipps was suspended
> for a month.
The phrase shit happens comes to mind. Sure its a bad deal to work that hard
and lose the prize, BUT she knew the rules, her team knew the rules and so
did the team vet. They knew the horses would be tested and they still did
it, once Polly became part of a team and not an individual rider her
behavior was lumped with the crew no matter what she did.
This
> was not good enough for her critics, however, who wanted her banned from
> competing at Bramham. It said a lot for her courage and talent that she
> was able to get so near to victory there. She focused on what she was
> doing, adding: "After all, we do this for fun."
Perhaps if she'd have left well enough alone she wouldn't be dead now, since
she wouldn't have been competing due to her suspension. Sometimes there are
big hints to slow down.
> If the Chronicle is going to stand as moral arbiter, when can we expect
> their apology for naming Bruce Davidson Horseman of the Year shortly after
> his drug bust in NZ?
I have no call on what the Chronicle does or doesn't do. Whether they are
moral or not is not the issue. The issue is whether some immoral lying
cheating horse killing and maiming pieces of shit should be allowed to
compete, and my personal opinion is, NO.
Tracy Meisenbach
http://www.users.lynchburg.net/trinityapp/
Updated 10-17-99
Trinity Appaloosa Farm
http://www.stylinontheweb.com/receq/
Horse Diary latest entry 11-28-99
OCUSGSL.
Mary J. McHugh
> Anyone who did the horrible things either of these two doorknobs did to
> horses can't be construed as normal. The fact that neither have the talent
> to make a life outside of horses and they both possess the ego that tells'
Please don't construe my article to be a defense of BW, as what he did was
indefensible as well as out and out cruel, but IIRC, he has been successful at
other endeavors including a stint as a professional football player in his
younger years.
I don't know enough about McLain to have an opinion. I had hoped for better
things from him, but the jury is still out.
Mary
Allison E. Piranio
>I'm curious. Does anybody know of similar incidences with low-profile
>competitors at smaller shows? How do the penalties compare between the
>two? Seems to me it's possible that the big names are getting off easier;
>it's also possible they're getting whacked harder.
>
this one. However, i can shed some more light on this incident for the
uninformed. At FEI events (which Aachen was) boot checks are performed by
officials. When Ward was called over for his boot check he seemingly ignored
the official and trotted off, letting his groom take he boots off which is a
no-no. That is where they found the plastic and Mcclain began to cry
"set-up"...
Allison E. Piranio
hunters/jumpers/equitation/ponies
Ft. Lauderdale, FL
"the hunter: fine art in motion"
TrotMW
MW
Madeline Rockwell stated:
TrinityApp
-- > Please don't construe my article to be a defense of BW, as what he did
was
> indefensible as well as out and out cruel, but IIRC, he has been
successful at
> other endeavors including a stint as a professional football player in his
> younger years.
>
I haven't even read the article. My view is based on what I know of Barney
outside of what the Chronicle said. He killed horses for gain, let the
bastard rot in the bleachers.
As for Boggs, who i don't believe was mentioned in your article, just as a
comparison, I hope his artificial enhancement theories get applied to him
and he gets a brain transplant.
Schmdthaus
<<The issue is whether some immoral lying
cheating horse killing and maiming pieces of shit should be allowed to
compete, and my personal opinion is, NO.>>
Well, I sure wish Tracy would tell us how she REALLY feels, and quit holding it
all in!
Seriously, I agree with her statement. From what I understand, there was no
doubt that Ward was involved in the insurance scams -- if it were up to me, he
should be banned from touching any horse, any place, any time.
Laurie
TrinityApp
-- > Well, I sure wish Tracy would tell us how she REALLY feels, and quit
holding it
> all in!
I've been working on this shyness problem for years, I'll try to be more up
front. :)
> Seriously, I agree with her statement. From what I understand, there was
no
> doubt that Ward was involved in the insurance scams -- if it were up to
me, he
> should be banned from touching any horse, any place, any time.
Yep, once you cross the line, you cross it. He doesn't deserve a second
chance, as a sentient biped he knew the law when he started committing
fraud.
Charles A. Hall
<snip> Yep, once you cross the line, you cross it. He doesn't deserve a
second
> chance, as a sentient biped he knew the law when he started committing
> fraud.
>
>
> Tracy Meisenbach
The sad thing is that they could only nail him on the insurance fraud.
Wouldn't it have been nice and more appropos if they could have gotten him
on abuse? I don't consider myself an ARA, however, I would like to see the
laws changed to allow proper prosecution on abuse charges.
Diane
TrinityApp
--
> Wouldn't it have been nice and more appropos if they could have gotten him
> on abuse?
I think an alligator clip to the anus and a car battery hookup, I'll turn
the key, should do the trick.
Cat
:> Wouldn't it have been nice and more appropos if they could have gotten him
:> on abuse?
Tracy wrote:
:I think an alligator clip to the anus and a car battery hookup, I'll turn
:the key, should do the trick.
You're too nice. Wouldn't be the _anus_ I'd to which I'd attach that
clip.
Cat (and whats-his-name)
Sheryl L. White
> From: wondr...@aol.comnospam (Allison E. Piranio)
>However, i can shed some more light on this incident for the
> uninformed. At FEI events (which Aachen was) boot checks are performed by
> officials. When Ward was called over for his boot check he seemingly ignored
> the official and trotted off, letting his groom take he boots off which is a
> no-no. That is where they found the plastic and Mcclain began to cry
> "set-up"...
Well, now I'm confused. I read an article on the M. Ward thing and it
said that there were *two* incidents. One in which Ward ignored the
official doing boot checks and took off, refusing the inspection. In the
second incident, he was stopped for inspection, the boots were removed and
shards of plastic were found on the ground in the vicinity of where the
boots were removed. I don't think they actually saw any in the boot itself,
just on the ground. I'm no big fan of the Wards at all (I think B. Ward
stinks as a rider after seeing him ride and dump his horses repeatedly on
course) but it seems suspicious to me that the boot inspector did not report
seeing shards in the boot, only on the ground. Maybe he did it, and maybe
he was set up, I'm not sure.
One thing I am sure about though, is that Barney Ward should never be
allowed to set foot on the grounds of a horse show again. He's a disgusting
parasite, and if I ever see him in person again, I am going to make sure the
entire crowd knows what he's done and what I think of him. If everybody
does the same, I'm not sure good ole Barney would even *want* to come to a
show.
Sheryl & The frosty Apps
Robert Johnson, Jr.
not ... it was several weeks before Aachen) M. Ward was summoned over and
the groom/boots pretty much vamoosed despite being called over by the
officials.
Robby
Sheryl L. White wrote in message ...
CigarsUnlimited
that the man served his time. BUT he should spend the whole time in the
bleachers and not come in contact with ANY horse. and mclain is needed in our
sport. He is young and a great rider. It isn't a known fact that he did do it
because they were found on the ground and not on the boot. And wouldn't if
chips were there make the horse get hurt? he took down a big gate and no marks
were found..hmmmm.
Bethe Blasienz
McLain Ward is NOT needed in the show jumping discipline. I shudder to think he
"could" represent the USA in Sydney next year. A good rider? That is in the
eyes of the beholder---I don't find him to be a good rider---when you compare
him to the Anne Kursinski's of this world, he pales in stark comparison.
People like McLain Ward give show jumping a bad name because he cannot be
honest--it is about money and there is an excuse for everything he does. Try
and find another "mentor" in the show jumping discipline to look up to.
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Deborah Stevenson
Wow, Beth; you aren't exactly the rush-to-judgment type, so I take your
opinion here seriously.
My problem is that I'm really not in a position, out here in the sticks
and all, to get the scoop on what happened or larger contexts of an
individual rider's character (not that it really matters, since I haven't
got the slightest bit of influence over any aspect of the sport). I do
also think Madeline's right that people have been rather gunning for
McLain, between his father's actions and his own success--which doesn't
remotely guarantee him being squeaky clean, but it does mean that I'm
particularly uneasy about condemning him based on unsubstantiated
stuff--and of course for me, the only thing substantiated is the actual
suspension.
On the other hand, I don't think he can be independently good for the
sport if he's breaking the rules, and I don't think his success should
entitle him to any *more* slack, either. And I don't care if, going for
the moment with the idea that the plastic was indeed deliberately placed
there, it didn't have the desired effect--it's cheating to put it there
anyway.
And for either success or failure, he's not a kid any more, he's a man.
No longer a Wunderkind, no longer somebody who might not be responsible
for his actions, but a full grownup with talents that approximate those of
some other full grownups; I'd hope that his actions weren't judged any
differently from those of any others in that group. My problem is I just
don't feel I know exactly what those actions were.
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Hoping for certainty in Champaign, IL, USA
CigarsUnlimited
he
> "could" represent the USA in Sydney next year. A good rider? That is in the
> eyes of the beholder---I don't find him to be a good rider---when you compare
> him to the Anne Kursinski's of this world, he pales in stark comparison.
> People like McLain Ward give show jumping a bad name because he cannot be
> honest--it is about money and there is an excuse for everything he does. Try
> and find another "mentor" in the show jumping discipline to look up to.
Someone has a really strong opion. LOL..but it's ok because opions are like
asses..everyone has one. But anyways I think he is innocent. He is a great
rider. and if anne kursinki is better than mclain how come he beat her numerous
times? I'm a an of anne and not bashing her but if mclain isn't in the olympics
I think it will hurt the u.s. He has some of the best horses and one of the
best riders.. he won the uset finasl at the age of 14..
Rosy
>times
I think it's b/c McLain has the nicest horses money can buy. He has pretty much
unlimited resources.
~~~**ROSE WINCEK**~~~
Gran Kaiser
2nd Year & Older Large Junior Hunters
Morning Star
Children's Jumpers
Boris
Children's Jumpers
"Waiting for the time when I can finally say that this has all been wonderful,
but now I'm on my way" ~Phish
Allison E. Piranio
>The sad thing is that they could only nail him on the insurance fraud.
>laws changed to allow proper prosecution on abuse charges.
>
>Diane
It bothers me also that he wants to prove his "rehabilitation" by working with
less fortunate kids and horses. If he wants to do this, why does he evenneed
to be a member of AHSA? Let him start a small lesson barn and go to unrated
shows, or better yet volunteer at Horses and the Handicapped. This man's ego is
bruised, plain and simple. The other question that comes to my head when
thinking about Barney Ward is, knowing his history, why would anyone still want
to work with him, regardless of his training knowledge? there are plenty other
knowledgable trainers out there. Paul Valliere still has a large customer base
and is also active with the AQHA hunters for my knowledge. I just don't get
it...
LeeHallMe
>thinking about Barney Ward is, knowing his history, why would anyone still
>want
>to work with him, regardless of his training knowledge? there are plenty
>other
>knowledgable trainers out there. Paul Valliere still has a large customer
>base
>and is also active with the AQHA hunters for my knowledge. I just don't get
>it...
>Allison E. Piranio
I'm not sure about this either, but I do know that Barney still has quite an
extensive network of customers all over the country. I've met the man, and
been to his place (their farm is absolutely gorgeous, btw) and he's still
importing and selling horses even though he's suspended from the AHSA. I'm
not gonna go into my opinion on the morality of the issue and all that though,
I just thought I'd point out that there ARE people who still want to
train/buy/sell horses with him...don't ask me why. There was a horse my old
trainer wanted me to buy from him, but I was like "no way"...even though it was
an awesome horse, it just felt wrong...I don't know.
Rosy
>>base
>>and is also active with the AQHA hunters for my knowledge.
Yeah, last year in FL, I went to school with some girls that rode with Paul
Valliere... they had to get the videos of all of their rounds to bring back to
him, but his farm was off of the horse show property (as many are there...
there are many farms around where horses can walk to the showgrounds from home)
and he had his assistant go to the ring with them. They seemed like nice girls,
but you never know...
Beth
really should not form an opinion until all the facts are in. Based on who I know
and what I know, I have formed an opinion. I really should temper my remarks though
until all is known. I was just so amazed at Barney Ward's reply.
Speaking of Paul Valliere---I had a run in with him many moons ago and will never
forget it. We had gone to Acres Wild Farm to look at a pony named Strawberry
Patches, a red roan sweet large pony we almost bought. Price tag was $1,000 and at
that time, that was a huge amount of money. As my sister and I were trying out the
pony, Mr. Valliere came by with a Welsh stallion, also for sale. He tried to sell
the stallion to us-----imagine---selling a stallion to 2 little girls with a year of
riding under their belts. My mother, thank goodness, looked under the pony's belly
and noticed what he was. She pretty much let him know how the cookie crumbled and we
left. Instead we purchased another pony from Carl Swedburg of North Scituate, RI
named Chester for $300---the best thing we ever did! He arrived at the place we were
going to keep him in the back of a pickup truck! Amazing how things were done back
then.
Beth Blasienz
Deborah Stevenson wrote:
> On 30 Nov 1999, Bethe Blasienz wrote:
>
> > >From: cigarsu...@aol.com
> >
> > >I personally think that barney should be aloud to watch mclain show. I think
> > >that the man served his time. BUT he should spend the whole time in the
> > >bleachers and not come in contact with ANY horse. and mclain is needed in our
> > >sport. He is young and a great rider. It isn't a known fact that he did do it
> > because they were found on the ground and not on the boot. And wouldn't if
> > >chips were there make the horse get hurt? he took down a big gate and no marks
> > were found..hmmmm.
> >
> > McLain Ward is NOT needed in the show jumping discipline. I shudder to think he
> > "could" represent the USA in Sydney next year. A good rider? That is in the
> > eyes of the beholder---I don't find him to be a good rider---when you compare
> > him to the Anne Kursinski's of this world, he pales in stark comparison.
> > People like McLain Ward give show jumping a bad name because he cannot be
> > honest--it is about money and there is an excuse for everything he does. Try
> > and find another "mentor" in the show jumping discipline to look up to.
>
Beth
Beth
Kris Carroll
> McLain Ward <snip>
> eyes of the beholder---I don't find him to be a good rider---when you compare
> him to the Anne Kursinski's of this world, he pales in stark comparison.
Is this the same Anne Kursinski the JRJ kids claim advocates and teaches
the use of draw reins and every other gadget known to mankind, in her
clinics?
Kris C
Madeline Rockwell
Kris Carroll <kcar...@horse-country.com> wrote in message
news:kcarroll-011...@blv-pm401-ip90.nwnexus.net...
>
> Is this the same Anne Kursinski the JRJ kids claim advocates and teaches
> the use of draw reins and every other gadget known to mankind, in her
> clinics?
When I saw her she spent time taking stuff away. And Eros goes as close to
naked as possible...
madeline
Madeline Rockwell
Beth <10330...@COMPUSERVE.COM> wrote in message
news:38452AD8...@COMPUSERVE.COM...
> I usually don't rush to judgement. Have read quite a bit about McLain.
And, I
> really should not form an opinion until all the facts are in. Based on
who I know
> and what I know, I have formed an opinion. I really should temper my
remarks though
> until all is known. I was just so amazed at Barney Ward's reply.
IMO it's OK to rush to judgment on Barney- after all, he's convicted...
madeline
Kris Carroll
> IMO it's OK to rush to judgment on Barney- after all, he's convicted...
And still serving 3 yrs probation. But AHSA is not an arm of the law and I
am a little concerned that the org is on slippery ground with their morals
clause being selectively enforced. What about individuals with
international drug convictions? (For that matter, what about trainers who
get their kid riders high at shows?)
If you don't have a fair standard...
Kris C.
Charles A. Hall
<snip> the likes of Piero d'Inzeo, Graziano Mancinelli
> (deceased unfortunately), David Broome, Harvey Smith, Vittorio Orlandi,
Hugo
> Simon, Ludger Beerbaum, Hugo Arrambide of Argentina, Paolo Angioni,
Adriano
> Capuzzo, Duccio Bartalucci...<snip>
Bethe Blasienz
Totally aside from the related topic, but in the 1978 Olympia Christmas Show
in London, I got to see Harvey Smith "walk" his horse through a huge oxer
(remember it being 14 feet wide, but 21 years later, I could be wrong). The
horse, for some reason or another, started the jump like a normal vertical
jump, and then literally walked through the top of the rails/shrubs/insides
of the oxer until he got to the other side, and came down in normal jump
landing position. It was the funniest/scariest thing I have ever seen over
fences. He went clean on that fence, too, didn't knock anything down
somehow.
Diane
Deborah Stevenson
On 2 Dec 1999, Bethe Blasienz wrote:
> tendency to really appreciate how she rides a grand prix course. McLain Ward's
> presence at the Olympics would hurt the sport---I don't care how well he rides
> or how many great horses he has-----his reaction after Gothenberg and Aachen
> speaks volumes.
Yeah, I know, I'm counting on you for all the info now :-). But can you
expand on this? I thought he just decided to go with the suspension
at Aachen, which seems fairly reasonable, but now it sounds like
something else happened. And what went on at Gothenburg?
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Completely out of the loop in Champaign, IL, USA
Ed Lehman
CigarsUnlimited wrote in message
<19991130201210...@ng-ba1.aol.com>...
>Someone has a really strong opion. LOL..but it's ok because opions are like
>asses..everyone has one. But anyways I think he is innocent. He is a great
numerous
>times? I'm a an of anne and not bashing her but if mclain isn't in the
olympics
>I think it will hurt the u.s. He has some of the best horses and one of the
>best riders.. he won the uset finasl at the age of 14..
Ok, first, I'd like to say I do not know enough about the situation with
McLain to have any opinion on his guilt or innocence. BUT if the only way
our country can win an Olympic game is to put up riders known to cheat, lie,
or abuse their horses, then WE SHOULD FUCKING LOSE.
There is no one rider or even couple of riders we cannot be a great horse
nation without.
Second, the idea of working with someone who kills horses for insurance
scams makes me want to puke. There is NO WAY Barney Ward should EVER be
sanctioned by the AHSA again.
eileen morgan
The Mare's Nest
http://www.enter.net/~edlehman
Deborah Stevenson
On Wed, 1 Dec 1999, Ed Lehman wrote:
> Ok, first, I'd like to say I do not know enough about the situation with
> McLain to have any opinion on his guilt or innocence. BUT if the only way
> our country can win an Olympic game is to put up riders known to cheat, lie,
> or abuse their horses, then WE SHOULD FUCKING LOSE.
Yup.
> There is no one rider or even couple of riders we cannot be a great horse
> nation without.
I'll add, in full asbestos undies, that being a great horse nation seems
to me to be one of the least significant accomplishments I can dream of
for a country even without getting into the dubiousness of the Olympics
for proving such a claim. Dearly though I love those equine critters, I
think that notions of national honor accruing from games thereon are
largely limited to those in said games, and that therefore it's even more
absurd and offensive to cheat to get such a chimeric prize, because you've
lost something a lot more substantial in the process.
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
In a great gherkin and aglet nation in Champaign, IL, USA
Bill Kambic
then you use the standard that you have as fairly as possible.
The wait for perfect justice is a futile enterprise. As long as law is made and enforced
by humans it will have all the imperfections of humans. Yet I, for one, do not long for
"computer justice." For, indeed, computers and made by humans and programed by humans so
that the justice they might dispense will be as flawed, albeit in different ways, that
what we have now.
Civil or administrative sanction, based upon criminal conviction is right, just, and
proper whether done by public or private party.
>Kris C.
Bill Kambic, Bright Star Farm, Kingston, TN
Mangalarga Marchador: Style, Stamina, Symmetry, Smoothness
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/1816
Bethe Blasienz
>Is this the same Anne Kursinski the JRJ kids claim advocates and teaches
>the use of draw reins and every other gadget known to mankind, in her
>clinics?
I don't think she uses a bunch a gadgets in her clinics. In fact, I haven't
heard anything like that, but perhaps she does. I have always felt her riding
speaks for itself. I guess being from the Italian school of thought, I have
always liked her forward riding, her fanny out of the saddle and the way her
horses gallop forward to a fence with little or no "setting up" by her. I have
only seen her on TV, never in person. I do know my Italian friends were
delighted with her in Rome 2 years ago when the American team did so well.
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Bethe Blasienz
>IMO it's OK to rush to judgment on Barney- after all, he's convicted...
He didn't serve enough jail time in my book. I do wonder how many other horses
were killed that we don't know about. He should accept his punishment and move
on. After all, I believe he has 13 more years suspended from the AHSA at which
time he can re-apply. I sure hope they don't accept him.
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Bethe Blasienz
>Someone has a really strong opion. LOL..but it's ok because opions are like
>asses..everyone has one.
Glad you agree---we all do have opinions, strong or weak----
>But anyways I think he is innocent. He is a great
>rider. and if anne kursinki is better than mclain how come he beat her
>numerous
>times? I'm a an of anne and not bashing her but if mclain isn't in the
>olympics
>I think it will hurt the u.s.
There are plenty of other good riders in America who should be Olympic
bound----Margie Goldstein Engle, Lynn Little, Susie Hutchison....the list goes
on. Anne Kursinski is a marvelous rider. I must admit I am not too objective
where she is concerned---she just rides the way I was trained so I have a
tendency to really appreciate how she rides a grand prix course. McLain Ward's
presence at the Olympics would hurt the sport---I don't care how well he rides
or how many great horses he has-----his reaction after Gothenberg and Aachen
speaks volumes.
And winning does not mean you are a great rider, all the ribbons in the world
or trophies or money doesn't make you a great rider. It's the journey you
embarked on to get you there and the sportsmanship you exhibit along the way.
>he won the uset finasl at the age of 14..
And that win is supposed to make him a great rider? It's great he won the USET
finals at age 14 and I applaud his effort. But that doesn't make him a great
rider. Put him up against the likes of Piero d'Inzeo, Graziano Mancinelli
(deceased unfortunately), David Broome, Harvey Smith, Vittorio Orlandi, Hugo
Simon, Ludger Beerbaum, Hugo Arrambide of Argentina, Paolo Angioni, Adriano
Capuzzo, Duccio Bartalucci...to name a few, and he really does pale in
comparison. He has access to much $$$ and therefore can "afford" some of his
wins. Of course I am sure there has been much behind the scenes work in
schooling etc.........but has he ever won with a horse he started? If he has,
I don't know about it.
For what it is worth, do consider choosing another mentor to look up to in the
show jumping discipline, there are many out there who compete in an honest way.
Read about some of the greats who have passed on but left their legacies
behind.
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Joyseymour
I rode in a clinic with Anne Kursinski in 1987. She was wonderful, very
common-sense, did not seem to advocate the use of gadgets, and was very
tolerant of the gang of us three-day riders looking for help with our show
jumping. She encouraged riding softly forward to fences, counting strides to
help with rhythm, etc. If anything, I would think she would be in favor of
simplifying. Of course, this was a long time ago. Maybe she's changed.
joy
Bah, humbug.
Bethe Blasienz
over a fence. He looked so different than everyone else. The british
traditionally sat straight up in the saddle and drove from their seats to the
jump, he didn't, he sorta careened around in a most non traditional way. We so
enjoyed watching him ride........heck of an education! :-) He sorta reminded
me of Rodney Jenkins and how he used to ride Idle Dice all those years ago.
When we lived in Italy, we went to the Rome International Show every
year.......the British always brought such a wonderful contingent of
horses---one horse in particular, April Love, was such a delight to
watch.......a tiny little gray horse who would be lost in the triple
combination, couldn't see anything but her ears in between the elements. The
germans too.......such a powerhouse in show jumping. We got to see the best of
the best for close to 10 years and it was an education in itself.
>From: "Charles A. Hall"
>Totally aside from the related topic, but in the 1978 Olympia Christmas Show
>in London, I got to see Harvey Smith "walk" his horse through a huge oxer
>(remember it being 14 feet wide, but 21 years later, I could be wrong). The
>horse, for some reason or another, started the jump like a normal vertical
>jump, and then literally walked through the top of the rails/shrubs/insides
>of the oxer until he got to the other side, and came down in normal jump
>landing position. It was the funniest/scariest thing I have ever seen over
>fences. He went clean on that fence, too, didn't knock anything down
>somehow.
>
>Diane
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Sealy2
sanctioned by the AHSA again.
<<
Mega dittos on this. I couldn't agree more.
Bethe Blasienz
>And what went on at Gothenburg?
The same thing that happened at Aachen, FEI stewards, from what I understand,
attempted to "red card" him for plastic chips coming from the galloping boots.
The consequences I am not sure of, but I believe, from my sources, that nothing
happened, he was merely sternly reprimanded and warned. This competition took
place a few weeks before Aachen.
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Elaine Lindelef
>
> I personally think that barney should be aloud to watch mclain show. I think
> that the man served his time. BUT he should spend the whole time in the
> bleachers and not come in contact with ANY horse. and mclain is needed in our
> sport. He is young and a great rider. It isn't a known fact that he did do it
> because they were found on the ground and not on the boot. And wouldn't if
> chips were there make the horse get hurt? he took down a big gate and no marks
> were found..hmmmm.
He knew the potential consequences... which include the AHSA suspension he
got. He's lucky he's not still in jail (and then he would not be able to
spectate at competitions, either).
The reason that suspended persons are not allowed to spectate at show grounds
is that a suspension is supposed to _hurt_, and in particular, it's impossible
as a practical matter for a steward or other person to prove whether a
suspended party is spectating or training if he is on the grounds. The Persona
Non Grata status is verifiable and enforceable.
Finally, if I was at all inclined to give him the benefit of the doubt and
allow him to spectate, that would be crushed by his actions as a scofflaw,
attending shows when he knows that is against the rules. Doesn't sound like
rehabilitation to me.
Elaine Lindelef