Girth Line Edema???
Eileen
is Dolly we are talking about.
She's developed a pair of hand sized edema pads on either side of her
mid-line down in the girth area. She's eating well, but has lost
condition, as mentioned elsewhere. I've recently changed her diet but
the edema pre-dates that feed change. She had halted her weight loss
but not really gained anything with the addition of Strategy, so now
she is getting quite a large amount of Strategy and Equine Senior 2x
a day. Too soon to tell if that will help her not just stop weight
loss, but actually go into weight gain.
Dolly is out all of the time and moves frequently in the paddock, so
it's not 'standing there doing nothing' swelling. Usually I associate
belly edema with mares experiencing circulation issues and not moving
around much in late pregnancy. Could she be having a heart problem?
Any clues?
Eileen Morgan
The Mare's Nest (PA)
http://themaresnest.us/
JJ
news:86a923c7-a884-44ee...@m16g2000vbs.googlegroups.com...
Comet gets this just about every year too. She currently has one right
along her midline just behind where a girth would go. And ditto, it's not a
girth causing it since she hasn't been ridden in weeks now due to the hock
injury. She also has little "crusties" along her midline too. I think it's
a reaction to the little "noseeums" that are veracious this time of year. I
put a ton of Swat along her midline today on top of fly spray. She gets
these swellings even when in regular work and all day or night t/o so even
when very active.
She also had some swelling earlier, when the mares were all in a serious
"end of summer" cycle. Her nippies were all swollen...we teased that she
went from an "A-cup" to a "C-cup" and Liza was dripping if you can believe
that! But Liza is a regular "D-cup" mare <grin>....then that "fluid
retention?" worked its way down her tummy, but she was on stall rest then so
that contributed to it not working out like it normally would (vet agrees).
But the swelling she has now, and probably what Dolly has, I would bet is
related to those tiny bugs biting them on the midline. Just my guess. JJ
Jill
> Could she be having a heart problem?
>
> Any clues?
not a vet and not seen it in horses, but congestive heart failure would be
my gut reaction.
Can you treat horses with Frusemide?
Gave our dog another 18 months from a prognosis of 2 weeks, and kept a far
few OAP's in our ken going too.
good luck and hugs to all
Jill
John Hasler
> not a vet and not seen it in horses, but congestive heart failure
> would be my gut reaction.
Could be, but there are other possibilities. Old Snout sometimes gets
belly swelling in the summer which his vet attributes to something in
the clover he gnaws on (he doesn't actually eat it, having no molars).
--
John Hasler Boarding, Lessons, Training
jo...@dancinghorsehill.com Hay, Jumps, Cavallox
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI USA
Jill
> Jill writes:
>> not a vet and not seen it in horses, but congestive heart failure
>> would be my gut reaction.
>
> Could be, but there are other possibilities. Old Snout sometimes gets
> belly swelling in the summer which his vet attributes to something in
> the clover he gnaws on (he doesn't actually eat it, having no molars).
with all the other symptoms and features?
Completely undertstand the weird edemas on their own can come from all sorts
of triggers, and some we do not understand.
It was more the picture in the round that triggered my response, and
delighted to be wrong :)
Some nasty summer biting things or summer weeds are far more manageable for
the wee lassie and Ei too
Jill
Tara
news:87ocbms...@thumper.dhh.gt.org...
>
> Could be, but there are other possibilities. Old Snout sometimes gets
> belly swelling in the summer which his vet attributes to something in
> the clover he gnaws on (he doesn't actually eat it, having no molars).
In addition to an allergic reaction she may be kicking herself to get rid of
flies. I've got two horses who are really sensitive to flies on their belly
and they will kick their bellies with their hinds but also kick themselves
with the heels of their front.
Tara
Kim
I would get her checked just to rule out CHF or cancer. I hope it
isn't.
Kim
Eileen
> "Eileen" <e...@enter.net> wrote in message
> But the swelling she has now, and probably what Dolly has, I would bet is
> related to those tiny bugs biting them on the midline. Just my guess. JJ
Maybe. She has not reacted to them in the past, but that doesn't mean
much. She does have a good hair coat started, so it seems like a weird
time to be reacting. I don't feel any breaks in the skin when I run my
fingers along her hide.
But she has been known to be prone to some rain rot and whatnot as she
ages that didn't seem to affect her before, so perhaps that's it.
Eileen
> Eileen wrote:
> > Could she be having a heart problem?
>
> > Any clues?
>
> not a vet and not seen it in horses, but congestive heart failure would be
> my gut reaction.
> Can you treat horses with Frusemide?
Not a clue about that drug.
FWIW, we listened to her heart in the fall and spring when planning
tooth work and she was good in the ticker department at those times--
but of course, it's been since spring since anyone had a listen. Don't
most heart patients breath a little hard and have a certain lassitude?
She seems a bit bright for that and is not hard breathing.
Maybe she is just trying to make me lose sleep.
Crazy old bat.
Eileen
> Jill writes:
> > not a vet and not seen it in horses, but congestive heart failure
> > would be my gut reaction.
>
> Could be, but there are other possibilities. Old Snout sometimes gets
> belly swelling in the summer which his vet attributes to something in
> the clover he gnaws on (he doesn't actually eat it, having no molars).
And she's the one who *didn't* slobber at all when my guys had the
mild clover slobbers this year. Go figure. Maybe she is reacting to
something in her hay? She doesn't sleep on the hay, though, and the
paddock is pretty weed free this year. Even Belles, who always gets
hives and reactions from sleeping on weeds, has had a good year for
that.
Eileen
> In addition to an allergic reaction she may be kicking herself to get rid of
> flies.
The day she manages to kick her girth line I am getting the video
camera. I don't think her leg could get there around her sway back
belly--she's 15 hands on withers and croup and 13.1 in the middle
these days. She has sunk a lot this last couple of years, and she was
already a bucket seat.
Eileen
> I would get her checked just to rule out CHF or cancer. I hope it isn't.
At 26, going on 27, eating her head off here as a rescue adoption
since '03, if it is something major and life quality ruining we are
not going to do more than keep her comfy while she can be kept that
way. If it is something moderately treatable in a reasonable economic
fashion, I can go with that.
Stupid horses. I told her not to traumatize the yearling by dropping
dead in the paddock.
John Hasler
> Not a clue about that drug.
It's another name for furosemide: Lasix.
Dr Corinne B Leek
wrote:
>At 26, going on 27, eating her head off here as a rescue adoption
>since '03, if it is something major and life quality ruining we are
>not going to do more than keep her comfy while she can be kept that
>way. If it is something moderately treatable in a reasonable economic
>fashion, I can go with that.
>
>Stupid horses. I told her not to traumatize the yearling by dropping
>dead in the paddock.
I sincerely hope she pays attention and not do some batty old lady
trick. :-}
Corinne & Crazy Canuck Crew...
--
*** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger!
*** cl...@eastlink.ca
Ruffian
>
> In addition to an allergic reaction she may be kicking herself to get
> rid of flies. I've got two horses who are really sensitive to flies on
> their belly and they will kick their bellies with their hinds but also
> kick themselves with the heels of their front.
>
> Tara
My new girl, Dilly, came with horrible midline belly hair loss and at
least 3 open sores with it. I have not seen it but was told she would
scratch/rub her belly because of insects. I have a hard time picturing
how she would do that. Maybe being swayback would make Dolly rubbing her
tummy even easier. Doesn't explain the swelling though.
With diligent care, marks on Dilly are just about gone. She hates flies
and I went to the ones that supposedly last 14 days since I can't be at
the barn every day.
Mikki
Tara
news:J8idnTU89JVTcgDR...@earthlink.com...
> On 9/24/2010 7:51 PM, Tara wrote:
>
>>
>> In addition to an allergic reaction she may be kicking herself to get
>> rid of flies. I've got two horses who are really sensitive to flies on
>> their belly and they will kick their bellies with their hinds but also
>> kick themselves with the heels of their front.
>>
>> Tara
>
> My new girl, Dilly, came with horrible midline belly hair loss and at
> least 3 open sores with it. I have not seen it but was told she would
> scratch/rub her belly because of insects. I have a hard time picturing
> how she would do that. Maybe being swayback would make Dolly rubbing her
> tummy even easier. Doesn't explain the swelling though.
They will lay down on their belly, stretch out their front legs then rock
forward and back to scratch their bellies. That's how the sores start. They
will also kick their girth area with their front feet by snatching the hoof
quickly off the ground with a sharp bend to the knee which can cause
swelling, bruising and sores. They kick their mid-bellies with their hinds.
> With diligent care, marks on Dilly are just about gone. She hates flies
> and I went to the ones that supposedly last 14 days since I can't be at
> the barn every day.
Cash requires daily lubing-up to keep his belly from crusting over and
breaking out in sores. His belly-rubbing decreased by about 75% when I took
him off the alfalfa and timothy that he's allergic to he's allergic to both
ingredients). I just put him back on to see what would happen and he's back
to being itchier than ever. He's allergic to cullicoides and can't tolerate
flies.
As for sprays, the only one that I've seen consistent results over the years
with is Mosquito Halt. It works better than Ultra Shield, Repel-X , WIPE and
any other spray with pesticides. None of the organic stuff works. Bag balm
or any type of balm coated on the belly from chest to genitals works well
for two reasons. First it soothes the skin and works on getting the crusties
away. Second it provides a barrier between the insects and the skin. Gnats
will drown in oil (which is one of several reasons I like oil-based based).
Tara
JJ
> "Ruffian" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:J8idnTU89JVTcgDR...@earthlink.com...
> They will lay down on their belly, stretch out their front legs then
> rock forward and back to scratch their bellies. That's how the sores
> start. They will also kick their girth area with their front feet by
> snatching the hoof quickly off the ground with a sharp bend to the
> knee which can cause swelling, bruising and sores. They kick their
> mid-bellies with their hinds.
> Cash requires daily lubing-up to keep his belly from crusting over and
> breaking out in sores. His belly-rubbing decreased by about 75% when I
> took him off the alfalfa and timothy that he's allergic to he's
> allergic to both ingredients). I just put him back on to see what
> would happen and he's back to being itchier than ever. He's allergic
> to cullicoides and can't tolerate flies.
>
> As for sprays, the only one that I've seen consistent results over the
> years with is Mosquito Halt. It works better than Ultra Shield,
> Repel-X , WIPE and any other spray with pesticides. None of the
> organic stuff works. Bag balm or any type of balm coated on the belly
> from chest to genitals works well for two reasons. First it soothes
> the skin and works on getting the crusties away. Second it provides a
> barrier between the insects and the skin. Gnats will drown in oil
> (which is one of several reasons I like oil-based based).
>
> Tara
Comet gets Swat all along her midline from chest to her nippies as well
as those!! Really helps!
--
JJ
JJ
> "Ruffian" <nob...@nowhere.com> wrote in message
> news:J8idnTU89JVTcgDR...@earthlink.com...
> They will lay down on their belly, stretch out their front legs then
> rock forward and back to scratch their bellies. That's how the sores
> start. They will also kick their girth area with their front feet by
> snatching the hoof quickly off the ground with a sharp bend to the
> knee which can cause swelling, bruising and sores. They kick their
> mid-bellies with their hinds.
> Cash requires daily lubing-up to keep his belly from crusting over and
> breaking out in sores. His belly-rubbing decreased by about 75% when I
> took him off the alfalfa and timothy that he's allergic to he's
> allergic to both ingredients). I just put him back on to see what
> would happen and he's back to being itchier than ever. He's allergic
> to cullicoides and can't tolerate flies.
>
> As for sprays, the only one that I've seen consistent results over the
> years with is Mosquito Halt. It works better than Ultra Shield,
> Repel-X , WIPE and any other spray with pesticides. None of the
> organic stuff works. Bag balm or any type of balm coated on the belly
> from chest to genitals works well for two reasons. First it soothes
> the skin and works on getting the crusties away. Second it provides a
> barrier between the insects and the skin. Gnats will drown in oil
> (which is one of several reasons I like oil-based based).
>
> Tara
Comet gets Swat from chest to nipples as well as those along he midline.
Really helps with the crusties and swelling. I really think it's these
large nats which really come out this time of year.
--
JJ
Ruffian
Tara and JJ, thanks for these ideas.
I Eqyss Microteked the sores she had and then coated them with bag balm.
But I will try coating as a preventative too. Dilly had bug bites or
hives on her neck and shoulders but they have abated. And she HATES
flies. There aren't very many flies at this barn but even one is too
many for the Dilly girl. She is quite agile with kicking so maybe that
contributed.
I haven't seen Mosquito Halt but will look into it. I'd been using
cheap Bronco before a ride since she gets showered afterwards. Then
UltraShield after her shower and to keep her safe until next time.
As a first time horse owner, I need to pay more attention to the hay
that is fed to see if there are notable differences.
Dilly also rubs her butt. I've saw her back up to the washstand wall
and rub. I've got bag balm on the latest skinned area right above the
base of her tail.
Mikki (who barely looks in the mirror when I brush my teeth, is working
hard to help Dilly retain her good looks)
Tara
>
> Dilly also rubs her butt. I've saw her back up to the washstand wall and
> rub. I've got bag balm on the latest skinned area right above the base of
> her tail.
She's probably reacting to other allergens as well. If you read Cash's
allergy report you'd think the horse was about to die. What hay was Dilly
eating at her last place and what hay is your barn feeding? IIRC you guys
purchased her nearby so the climate didn't change.
Also, generic hydrocortizone cream will do wonders for sores and hairless
patches on a horse.
Tara