Very Grumpy Pony
Amrik Singh
I was reading with interest on dealing with aggressive horses, My
daughter's pony is grumpy to handle 70% of the time, although he has never
made contact with anybody he threatens which for me I take no notice and
carry on, but for my 10 year old daughter she finds this very intimidating.
I took him to see Monty Roberts to find out how he would handle this
situation, as I didn't want to react by hitting the pony each time.
His answer - Whenever the pony threatens Kick him in the shin HARD, and
then when he turns to you stroke his head, the logic behind this was that
the pony would associate the pain with the threatening behaviour and then
he would stop doing it, he would not associate the pain coming from me.
This was not the type of answer I expected but the only solution that I
got.
Does anybody have any other ideas on how a 10 year old can handle such a
situation ??
Cheers
Michelle (miche...@pemail.net)
cdho...@highland.net
sup...@atlantic-coast.com wrote:
> Hi all
>
> I was reading with interest on dealing with aggressive horses, My
> daughter's pony is grumpy to handle 70% of the time, although he has never
> made contact with anybody he threatens which for me I take no notice and
> carry on, but for my 10 year old daughter she finds this very intimidating.
if it were a draft horse being ugly...you and I both would be
intimidated<G> considering his size to hers...your child is being very
smart<G>
>
> This was not the type of answer I expected but the only solution that I
> got.
this is the problem with most of the "gurus" ......they look great on tape
but have no clue about day to day matters
>
> Does anybody have any other ideas on how a 10 year old can handle such a
> situation ??
from my own children and my 4H kids (Horse project leader for a few years
now) once a child is scared (for whatever reason...real or imagined) the work
to get them over the fear(of riding ..of a particular horse.....of a jump...)
really isn't worth the work involved....we have to completelyremove the kid
from what scares it....for a period of time....in riding situations it is
usually peer pressure that conter-acts any fears....
but for a fear of a particular animal....I have found that even little kids
(my daughter and nephew both now nearly 6 as examples) can remember when a
particular horse or pony...stepped on them or knocked them over....sometimes
as long as two years ago....and despite the error in their memories(falling
not getting knocked over) (tripping as opposed to getting stepped on) they
are SOLID memories none the less...<G>
perhaps the kindest thing for all involved would be to sell him to a bigger
child and find something that your child feels happy with...if a pony can
bully you he will....perhaps even faster than a horse will....they may both
be happier apart from one another....
--
Tamara in TN
completely surrounded by folks who
think 'rasslin' is real.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Peter Neilson
are not trained at all. Your daughter must, to remain safe, always
carry an attitude that commands the pony, rather than allowing the
opposite (the pony commanding her) to occur. Monty's method is sound.
We bite our ponies if they bite us, and kick them if they threaten to
kick, exactly as their mothers did and their superior herd-mates do.
Ponies are rugged. Your daughter cannot kick her pony as hard as
another pony can, so there is no need to worry for the pony's health.
Once she has firmly convinced the pony that she outranks him, your
daughter will need do little more than wrinkle her nose or toss her
head, and the pony will behave.
Our top pony gelding is also our smallest. When turned out with the
mares, he has one who is his girlfriend. (They have not gotten any
further than that because he can't.) Some years ago we acquired a very
polite horse gelding, and for a time had him turned out with the pony
mares. He decided that same mare was -his- girlfriend. Later we put
all the horses and ponies together, and it was time for the big battle.
The little top pony and the big horse had to fight over who owned that
mare! When all the noise and fussing was over, the horse was flat on
the ground, knocked down by the pony. (We think he misjudged his
footing.) No injury, though, except lost pride. Ponies -are- rugged.
Jackie
<sup...@atlantic-coast.com> wrote:
>Hi all
>
>I was reading with interest on dealing with aggressive horses, My
>daughter's pony is grumpy to handle 70% of the time, although he has never
>made contact with anybody he threatens which for me I take no notice and
>carry on, but for my 10 year old daughter she finds this very intimidating.
>
>I took him to see Monty Roberts to find out how he would handle this
>situation, as I didn't want to react by hitting the pony each time.
>His answer - Whenever the pony threatens Kick him in the shin HARD, and
>then when he turns to you stroke his head, the logic behind this was that
>the pony would associate the pain with the threatening behaviour and then
>he would stop doing it, he would not associate the pain coming from me.
>This was not the type of answer I expected but the only solution that I
>got.
>
>Does anybody have any other ideas on how a 10 year old can handle such a
>situation ??
See if there is a Parelli group for kids in the area. The concepts and
methods he uses at the base level are ideal for kids, and they have
kids groups in the UK, so I am sure they have them over there.
Failing that, get the book, and teach her to do the games yourself -
they are fairly simple. Are you sure the pony is comfortable and in
good health and well trained enough for a child? He may need to be
checked out by a vet, and have a bit more training with a competant
adult.
Jackie
Donna Pattee
Oh, great! Bad advice on top of bad advice.
Please do not be kicking your pony in the "shin". Personally, I would look
for someone - a trainer, vet, farrier, other knowledgeable horse person -
who can show your daughter how to handle her pony in way that shows him
that she is the boss hoss without having to resort to kicking, hitting or
biting.
As a first step, you might check out DejaNews for Sheila's post about "The
Horse that Kills You Has Warned You First".
Elizabeth Moon
>
> Hi all
>
> I was reading with interest on dealing with aggressive horses, My
> daughter's pony is grumpy to handle 70% of the time, although he has never
> made contact with anybody he threatens which for me I take no notice and
> carry on, but for my 10 year old daughter she finds this very intimidating.
>
> I took him to see Monty Roberts to find out how he would handle this
> situation, as I didn't want to react by hitting the pony each time.
> His answer - Whenever the pony threatens Kick him in the shin HARD, and
> then when he turns to you stroke his head, the logic behind this was that
> the pony would associate the pain with the threatening behaviour and then
> he would stop doing it, he would not associate the pain coming from me.
> This was not the type of answer I expected but the only solution that I
> got.
>
> Does anybody have any other ideas on how a 10 year old can handle such a
> situation ??
>
>
> Michelle (miche...@pemail.net)
IMO, a 10 year old should not have to cope with a grumpy pony. Get one
with a better disposition for her, and you take on this fellow.
Elizabeth
--
"A little raised number at the end of a statement is not an icon of
inerrancy." _British Medical Journal_
HAF DWC
(yes write it down) every thing the child can consistantly get the pony do
without the pony reacting in a negative manner.
The trick in changing behavior is when the pony does something threatening
have the child IMMEDIATELY make the pony do something he will do consistantly
do but he does not like.
For example when the pony swings his head and pins his ears as if to bite (just
an example) the child needs to react quickly by grabbing the halter and turning
the pony quickly in several small tight circles. The first few times the pony
may need to spend almost the entire time being corrected in one way or another.
But the correction should be something the pony will do consistantly but done
with authority. The other thing is that the pony should be praised for doing
anything right, even the things he already does.
Hopefully using this the pony will soon figure out "gee, everytime I swing my
head around to threaten I have to go in all these stupid little circles and I
don't like it; so I won't do that any more" The kicking back thing will work
sometimes but it depends on the equine. Some will simply rebel more other will
give pretty easily.
Good Luck
Dana
and Cricket
Jim & Laura Behning
> Are you sure the pony is comfortable and in
>good health and well trained enough for a child? He may need to be
>checked out by a vet, and have a bit more training with a competant
>adult.
I'll second that, and add that checks should be made to proper tack
fitting, as well as the workload the pony is asked to undertake.
Certainly *don't* kick the animal in the shin- the potential for
serious damage to that area is great. At the very least you're going
to make the pony's legs pretty sore.
Laura Behning
morgans at mindspring dot com
http://www.mindspring.com/~morgans/Laura.htm
WlkLRanch
have gone thru all of that, and the horse, who is larger but has a beter
temperment and safer to handle, I use to have to ride the pony and she would
end riding my mare. Sandy of Walking L Ranch
cdho...@highland.net
haf...@aol.com (HAF DWC) wrote:
> The trick in changing behavior is when the pony does something threatening
> have the child IMMEDIATELY make the pony do something he will do consistantly
> do but he does not like.
but here we are forgetting that the child is afraid of the pony...this is
what must be overcome before any further handling/training/correcting of the
pony can be accomplished .....a frightened handler cannot teach anything....
respectfully.
cdho...@highland.net
mor...@atl.mindspring.com wrote:
lt.
>
> Certainly *don't* kick the animal in the shin- the potential for
> serious damage to that area is great. At the very least you're going
> to make the pony's legs pretty sore.
and at the very worst ..he will see it as an attack from a
subordinate/smaller creature and turn on the child...he is sour for a
reason..and if you plan on uncovering why you should consider the child's
safety first....
pippa
WlkLRanch <wlkl...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19981120134749...@ng-fc2.aol.com>...
> sell the pony as that is the way ponies are,
That is incorrect. Ponies who are treated and trained as horses rather
than cute little ponies are not like this. Don't blame the pony, blame the
training - as usual.
Pippa
Sus miller
>From: "pippa" <pi...@hotmail.com>
>Date: 11/22/98 3:20 PM Central Standard Time
>Message-id: <01be165d$ed6f0c40$3505...@07623.aipo.gov.au>
I agree, although it does seem that ponies are smarter for some reason, and
therefore able to take advantage easier!
I just got on my neighbor's 13 h pony because it was being really bratty with
her daughter. I tried to help the daughter, she wasn't adept or strong enough
to do what I was asking. So I hopped on and we had a little schooling session.
I think that is what is wrong with most ponies - the riders are beginners and
need someone to get on and school the horse for them, but no one does.
Susan
PS. Didn't ride too hard, how much weight can a 600 lb 13 h pony take? I am
about 130 lbs. I would like to help them, but don't want to hurt the pony.
John T. Klausner
often and they have a _very_ short "wheel" base....
SueK
In <19981122201320...@ng-cr1.aol.com> susm...@aol.com
Amrik Singh
was not in any pain, he has had his teeth checked, chiropractor, vet,
and all his tack has been checked that it fits correctly, so I feel
confident that he is not in pain.
I would describe his work load as light, especially at this time of
year, he is schooled twice a week and at weekends we go out hacking, &
she has a lesson once a fortnight, then the odd pony club activity, he
really is good when you are on his back.
We certainly could not KICK him, or use any physical violence against
him.
Thanks Michelle (using my work colleagues Amrik Singh Account)
Amrik Singh
up when ever she is doing anything with him, although he has never made
contact I would not take the chance that one day he might go a little
bit further.
I think my daughter will actually learn a very valuable lesson from her
experience with this pony, in that you should never take liberties your
safety must come first.
Amrik Singh
> if it were a draft horse being ugly...you and I both would be
> intimidated<G> considering his size to hers...your child is being very
> smart<G>
>
daughter dealing with the pony, I can see he is taking the mick with her and
that she needs to stand up to him, given his size that is easy for me to say,
but if my own horse who is 16.3 was being Ugly, I wonder if I could practice
what I preach ?
> perhaps the kindest thing for all involved would be to sell him to a bigger
> child and find something that your child feels happy with...if a pony can
> bully you he will....perhaps even faster than a horse will....they may both
> be happier apart from one another....
>
We have talked about this, but I must say in the ponies favour, they are
matched perfectly as far as the riding goes, they had a great summer season
showing and now they are doing well with hunter trials etc.. She has no
fear of him when she is on his back, and you could not wish for a safer, more
honest riding pony, so it is difficult, she says she would like a pony that
she could love, but she also wants to keep him for the riding.
She won't have much choice come next spring, as she will be grown out of him,
he is a lovable rouge !! But as you say a bully.
Thanks Michelle (using a work colleagues account)
Amrik Singh
> I think that is what is wrong with most ponies - the riders are beginners and
> need someone to get on and school the horse for them, but no one does.
>
regular lessons, and I have never been able to fault the pony when it comes to
riding, his is very honest.
Michelle
Amrik Singh
> IMO, a 10 year old should not have to cope with a grumpy pony. Get one
> with a better disposition for her, and you take on this fellow.
>
> Elizabeth
>
about him in the near future, she does want a pony who likes to be loved,
but as far as riding goes he is going to be hard to replace, as he is a
very honest, safe riding pony, they had a fantastic showing season this
summer, perhaps a nice show pony with a good temperament might be
something that does not go together ??
Mary Healey
> PS. Didn't ride too hard, how much weight can a 600 lb 13 h pony take? I am
> about 130 lbs. I would like to help them, but don't want to hurt the pony.
Don't forget that there's a lot that can be accomplished on the longe,
long lines, or in-hand.
M.
Samantha
daughter. After teaching kids for 3 years (I'm far from expert, but
experienced) I've found my main weapon in combatting the fear is the horse
themselves. By explaining the behavior, I try to add humor, it puts it in a
much less scary light. By putting the child in situation where they do
succeed they feel more able to attempt the difficult interactions.
I agree with the suggestion to try circling or something that the pony
and child do well. Try using an analogy like getting out of bed to help her
understand the ponies behavior. For instance, if your daughter growled when
you got her up for school (or asked her to clean her room, or whatever) and
you ran out of her room. Our campers felt more comfortable when they could
see the horse as wanting a specific reaction instead of them just seeming
'mean'. Often the kids would not understand a behavior. Being on the
receiving end of a behavior that seems threatening and for no reason is very
scary indeed.
It was really encouraging to hear one student telling a friend 'Oh,
Tank's not mean. He's just a bully. I'm not afraid of him.' Once they
felt in control, through successes like leading and understanding the
behavior, the horse would feel that they were in control too.
However, as it has been stressed before safety of your daughter is the
most important thing. If you feel that she is not safe then the pony should
go to a home that is more capable of handling him.
Samantha
Amrik Singh wrote in message ...
pippa
mean lungeing, I mean training for respect and manners). Too many people
do not bother with this because ponies are small and can often be
physically pushed around by an adult. The pony may be an angel under
saddle but a nasty little so and so on the ground to children because it
never learnt respect.
Pippa
Amrik Singh <sup...@atlantic-coast.com> wrote in article
<VA.00000007.0101202b@amrik>...
Katheri365
Having been a horse show mom and pony club mom I am firmly convinced that
children belong on ponies. They can reach to groom, tack up and mount. The
pony gate is shorter - better for little bodies - and the child is not
"perched" on an oversized mount.
That said, no child will benefit from having to work with a mean pony. There
are plenty of nice ponies available. Please consider selling the grump - or
donate him to a college program - and purchasing a child loving, gentle pony.
Well treated ponies seem to live "forever" so consider an older mount since you
will be able to check out past performance and attitude.
Best of luck! Ponies are just like horses - they come with all kinds of
personalities.
Katherine :)
Sutterkid
>children belong on ponies.
WH had an article this month on kid's horses. They reccommend a tall pony
(13-14 hands) for the average kiddo. My horse, when I was 11, was about 14.1,
just about right for a tall kid like me.
The theory behind that is that the horse is still small, most can still groom
and saddle....may have to stand on a block to do so the first few years (they
also point out that a kid's pony should tolerate that), but they are unlikely
to grow aout of them to quick. As a 5'10"er who rode a 14 hand Arab for a few
months (just working with her), the average kid should be able to hang onto a
large pony for quite a while.
-Sutter