ESP with animals
Mary
> When I went to Equitana I stoped at Linda Hiby's booth.
> Has anyone had any experience with her ?She has phone consultations.
> She is a "animal communicator".How real are people like Linda?
> Thank's Moni
Er... Well, I had a friend inform me that she was psychic,
and that she had communicated with my dogs. Apparently
they are "happy but want more roast beef."
Not sure why she thinks she had to be psychic to figure
that one out. Anyone know a dog that *doesn't* want more
roast beef?
<G>
Mary Papadopoulos
Karen R.
>Er... Well, I had a friend inform me that she was psychic,
>and that she had communicated with my dogs. Apparently
>they are "happy but want more roast beef."
>
>Not sure why she thinks she had to be psychic to figure
>that one out. Anyone know a dog that *doesn't* want more
>roast beef?
Yeah, I had a psychic link with my cat today and she told me that she wants
to drink out of my cereal bowl more often and that she would like for me to
ask the birds to fly around the balcony at night, too. My psychic connection
with my horse was a bit unclear. All I could get was something about sweet
lumps and "damn lateral work."
--
* Karen D. Rust
* kdr...@labyrinth.net
* Ph.D. Candidate
* West Virginia University School of Medicine
* Department of Pharmacology and Toxicology
Greg T. Erdman
Cynthia
are out there talking to animals and telling owners what they say. Lydia is
really good. She has read all my animals and helped me find my lost mule.
She also helped me to know that my mule wouldn't load in the trailer
becasue I was trying to load her on the right side and she wanted to load
on the left. She has loaded on the left fine for years, now. She also told
me that my aging horse who wouldn't eat his evening meal had some night
blindness and was banging his head on the door of the barn at night cause
he couldn't see it. Finally, he decided just not to eat. We rigged up a
light at the door and he ate fine after that. If you have an inkling for
this information, it will be the best money you have ever spent.
--
Cynthia
cat...@gorge.net
Bridging the gap between humans and everything else!
Greg T. Erdman <gr...@execpc.com> wrote in article
<6pr8ae$c...@newsops.execpc.com>...
Mainesrus
>this information, it will be the best money you have ever spent.
I've thought and still think for the most part that this is "whoo whoo" (sound
of twilight zone theme playing in background) but I had a very bizarre
experience with a psychic who did "readings" for humans out of her home, years
ago.
At the time, I was leasing an ASB gelding who had not only become "cold backed"
but had started to threaten to rear--there was no apparent reason, he'd been
checked by farrier, checked out by vet, all that stuff.
This lady was visiting her granddaughter who had a horse at the barn, and came
over to yak at me...she looked at Billie, got nose to nose with him and closed
her eyes. Then she said..."oh dear...he says his right rear "ankle" is hurting
him." I kinda played along and hearing "ankle" from a layperson, checked out
his hind fetlocks. No heat, no swelling--she says, "no, no...his ANKLE, right
here, pointing to a spot on the outside of her own ankle...just below the
"anklebone" bump on her foot. She was quite adamant that his back hurt him
because his ankle was hurting and he was "walking funny so his "ankle" didn't
hurt, but he "didn't want me to see it""
I worked with the guy for a few more days...him going dead sound, but cold
backed as hell, and still no heat or swelling that I could find.
Finally, I talked to his actual owner, and out of pocket, paid for Billie to be
trailered to the vet clinic and examined and x-rayed...sure as hell...that boy
had a tiny bone chip on the outside of his right hock...just below what would
be the "anklebone" in a human!
As a result of his bone chip, he had muscle spasms in his lower back from
trying to protect his hock. To this day, I don't know how this tiny, heavily
made up little ol' lady *knew* that Billie's hock hurt him when he tried to
collect, or how she knew that this was making his back hurt. What I found most
interesting was that she said she "felt" the pain in the equivalent location in
the equivalent joint, on a human!
Makes you wonder...really makes you wonder...
Best, Reva
Laura Friedman
>
> When I went to Equitana I stoped at Linda Hiby's booth.
> Has anyone had any experience with her ?She has phone consultations.
> She is a "animal communicator".How real are people like Linda?
Oh, they're real, alright. And quite proficient at separating idiots
from their cash.
Laura & Squiggles
jkil...@mcia.com
gr...@execpc.com (Greg T. Erdman) wrote:
> When I went to Equitana I stoped at Linda Hiby's booth.
> Has anyone had any experience with her ?She has phone consultations.
> She is a "animal communicator".How real are people like Linda?
They like your money.
down the tejas trails....
jane kilberg & her GOS (Gang of Spots)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Natalie Morris
they need or how they feel. I also think some people have gifts that no one
can explain. I also think alot of "Gifted" people are just very good
scam-artist. If you have the extra money and want to give it a try than go
for it, it's no more iffy than the herble stuff I take to give me more
energy (no idea if it realy works but as long as I feel better that's all
that matters. Plecebo (sp?) or not).
If you want to believe, you will.
natalia
Greg T. Erdman wrote in message <6pr8ae$c...@newsops.execpc.com>...
>When I went to Equitana I stoped at Linda Hiby's booth.
>Has anyone had any experience with her ?She has phone consultations.
>She is a "animal communicator".How real are people like Linda?
>Thank's Moni
Terry von Gease
>Very REAL. Her name is Lydia, not Linda. She and many animal communicators
>are out there talking to animals and telling owners what they say. Lydia is
>really good. She has read all my animals and helped me find my lost mule.
>She also helped me to know that my mule wouldn't load in the trailer
>becasue I was trying to load her on the right side and she wanted to load
>on the left. She has loaded on the left fine for years, now. She also told
>me that my aging horse who wouldn't eat his evening meal had some night
>blindness and was banging his head on the door of the barn at night cause
>he couldn't see it. Finally, he decided just not to eat. We rigged up a
>this information, it will be the best money you have ever spent.
Anyone who claims any abilities along these line is a liar or a fool or
both. Anyone who would act on the dubious advice of one of these
swamis is merely a fool.
There has never, as in ever, been one, as in one, instance of anyone
anywhere being able to demonstate any sort of psychic ability whatsoever.
None, nada, zip, zero.
Why, when James Randi offers well over a $million to anyone who can
demonstrate any sort of para-normal ability whatsoever, would anyone
waste their time with the equine version of a carnie mitt camp?
Why, if the Dr. Doolittle act is for real, is this specimen hanging
around horse shows when it could be at the track getting the
inside line on all of the infirmities and psychoses of the
particpants, thereby swinging the odds immensely in its favor?
You, fool that you are, were the dupe of what's called a 'cold reading'
wherein you told the operator everything that it told back to you and
you mindlessly accepted your own information as occult revelation.
The operator gets your dough and you walk away, basking in the knowledge
that old Dobbin is, or will be, happy in his work. Fool.
The best money you'll ever spend is to send it on to me instead of
squandering it on the mojo woman de jure.
>Greg T. Erdman <gr...@execpc.com> wrote in article
><6pr8ae$c...@newsops.execpc.com>...
>> When I went to Equitana I stoped at Linda Hiby's booth.
>> Has anyone had any experience with her ?She has phone consultations.
>> She is a "animal communicator".How real are people like Linda?
>> Thank's Moni
>>
--
Terry A proper signature should sum up one's entire
philosophy and, at the same time, cause anyone who
reads it to question everything in which they
believe.
jo...@dhh.gt.org
> She and many animal communicators are out there talking to animals...
Anybody can talk to animals. Listening is a bit harder, but requires no
psychic abilities.
> ...and telling owners what they say.
And that just what they do: tell the owners what they said.
--
John Hasler
jo...@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Laura Friedman
>
> I think some people are more intune to animals/people and can sense what
> they need or how they feel. I also think some people have gifts that no one
> can explain. I also think alot of "Gifted" people are just very good
> scam-artist. If you have the extra money and want to give it a try than go
> for it, it's no more iffy than the herble stuff I take to give me more
> energy (no idea if it realy works but as long as I feel better that's all
Except that the psychic communicator I saw was giving people all kinds
of medical advice - telling one woman that a navicular horse "felt
fine", and another that her badly conformed horse wanted to breed.
Without seeing anyone ride, she also made dubious training suggestions
("he wants to jump"), ("his saddle hurts"), etc.
People believing that kind of nonesense could them themselves or their
horses hurt. This is not a harmless exercise. These people are
dangerous.
Laura & Squiggles (chanting for spiked bran mash)
Natalie Morris
that makes no sense.
But I do believe some people do sense things about animals that you and I
may not be able to. A friend of mine told me my dog was realy sick as she
saw my dog running across the yard to visit happy as she could be. A month
before the Vet said she was in perfect health (except as few pounds over
weight). Two weeks later (on the one year aniversity of my fathers death)
we found out Sasha had lymphoma and even after Chemo she didn't make it.
Life is weird.
natalia
Laura Friedman wrote in message <6pt1a1$o...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
M. Brumbaugh
>I've thought and still think for the most part that this is "whoo whoo" (sound
>of twilight zone theme playing in background) but I had a very bizarre
>experience with a psychic who did "readings" for humans out of her home, years
>ago.
<small snip>
>This lady was visiting her granddaughter who had a horse at the barn, and came
>over to yak at me...she looked at Billie, got nose to nose with him and closed
>her eyes. Then she said..."oh dear...he says his right rear "ankle" is hurting
>him." I kinda played along and hearing "ankle" from a layperson, checked out
>his hind fetlocks. No heat, no swelling--she says, "no, no...his ANKLE, right
>here, pointing to a spot on the outside of her own ankle...just below the
>"anklebone" bump on her foot. She was quite adamant that his back hurt him
>because his ankle was hurting and he was "walking funny so his "ankle" didn't
>hurt, but he "didn't want me to see it""
>
>I worked with the guy for a few more days...him going dead sound, but cold
>backed as hell, and still no heat or swelling that I could find.
>
>Finally, I talked to his actual owner, and out of pocket, paid for Billie to be
>trailered to the vet clinic and examined and x-rayed...sure as hell...that boy
>had a tiny bone chip on the outside of his right hock...just below what would
>be the "anklebone" in a human!
>
>As a result of his bone chip, he had muscle spasms in his lower back from
>trying to protect his hock. To this day, I don't know how this tiny, heavily
>made up little ol' lady *knew* that Billie's hock hurt him when he tried to
>collect, or how she knew that this was making his back hurt. What I found most
>interesting was that she said she "felt" the pain in the equivalent location in
>the equivalent joint, on a human!
Where's Rod Sterling when you need him?
Boy, that one was weird.
A friend told me a story once of a Communicator who came out to the
barn where she had her horse. Fee was paid by one of the other
borders. An older woman who had more money than she knew what to do
with. Just walked around and had readings done on several horses...
Anyway, my friend watched the whole thing and said that it was all
pretty normal nonspecific stuff until they got to this one horse. The
horse was a middle aged gelding, owned by a man. Guy pretty much
trail rode, but would occasionally feel the horse was misbehaving in
some way (don't know if it was real or not) and would spend time in
the ring circling and circling and circling.
The Communicator basically said, "This horse is pretty happy with his
life. But he really doesn't understand the circles...."
Just plain weird......
Mollie
--------------------------------------------------------------
Kiss French. Drink California.
~ Jerry Mead
Gretchen Fathauer
> When I went to Equitana I stoped at Linda Hiby's booth.
> Has anyone had any experience with her ?She has phone consultations.
> She is a "animal communicator".How real are people like Linda?
> Thank's Moni
Lydia Hiby is for real. She learned her communciations skills from Bea
Lydecker. I went to a couple of Bea's clinics where you learn how to
communicate with animals mentally. I was shocked at how often I was
"guessing" right.
Although I doubt if she is right 100% of time, the percentage is pretty
high. I was surprised at how often I was picking things up correctly.
These clincs are an ideal format to try this stuff out--a bunch of people,
many of whom don't know eachother, each bring a pet, usually a dog. We
sit in a circle, everyone directs mental questions to the dog, and then
asks the owner for confirmation. I was constantly picking up detailed and
accurate pictures of the insides of their homes, which the owners
confirmed. I was weaker on picking up medical and physical stuff, but
better at picking up visual stuff, or "seeing" events that had happened.
Anyone wanting to learn more about this should look up Penelope Smith in
their browser, as she runs more of these clinics. I don't believe Bea is
giving clinics any more.
Ennui09
of medical advice - telling one woman that a navicular horse "felt
fine", and another that her badly conformed horse wanted to breed.
Without seeing anyone ride, she also made dubious training suggestions
("he wants to jump"), ("his saddle hurts"), etc.
People believing that kind of nonesense could them themselves or their
horses hurt. This is not a harmless exercise. These people are
dangerous.>>
There are plenty people in this world that aren't *real*...you can't
effectively use your experience with one woman to conclude that hundreds of
people are all lying quacks...I'm quite sure that a number of them are
fakes...but it's impossible for me to say they are ALL fakes when I haven't met
all of them and seen all of them do their stuff...
Viderian
>fakes...but it's impossible for me to say they are ALL fakes when I haven't
>met
>all of them and seen all of them do their stuff...
I wonder how many fakes one must meet before one begins to realize that there
may be something wrong with the whole process.
When dealing with people who make fantastic claims, I prescribe a good dose of
healthy skepticism. Don't accept everything at face value. The person you're
dealing with may also truly believe whatever it is they're trying to sell you.
That's still not enough to make it real.
"Maybe if I just wish hard enough, all my dreams will come true." - Some
silly character I saw in a movie once.
Tom Stovall
Re: ESP with animals. "When I went to Equitana I stoped at Linda Hiby's
booth. Has anyone had any experience with her ? She has phone
consultations. She is a "animal communicator". How real are people like
Linda? -?
>Lydia Hiby is for real...
Sure she's real! She's really preying on the gullible - and making them
like it.
>She learned her communciations skills from Bea Lydecker...
"How to Fleece a Sucker"?
>I went to a couple of Bea's clinics where you learn how to communicate
>with animals mentally. I was shocked at how often I was "guessing"
>right...
Folks seeking delusions generally find them.
>Although I doubt if she is right 100% of time, the percentage is pretty
>high...
Her percentages can be readily tested; yet, for some reason, the term
"double blind" seems to make these con artists hunt a hole.
[...]
>Anyone wanting to learn more about this should look up Penelope Smith in
>their browser, as she runs more of these clinics...
Why bother? If she claims the ability of paranormal communication with
horses, she's a liar. If she had any psychic "power", why would she be
fleecing the suckers for chump change when a successful demonstration of
paranormal ability under controlled conditions would be worth about $1.2
million in one fell swoop and get more publicity than Clinton's legal
woes? For the straight skinny on these disciples of Phineas, take a
look at <<http://www.randi.org/jr/chall.html>>.
>I don't believe Bea is giving clinics any more...
Perhaps she had an attack of conscience.
Tom Stovall
AFA Journeyman Farrier
sto...@wt.net
http://web.wt.net/~stovall
* SLMR 2.1a * "There's a sucker born every minute..." -P.T. Barnum
Deborah Stevenson
><<Except that the psychic communicator I saw was giving people all kinds
>of medical advice - telling one woman that a navicular horse "felt
>fine", and another that her badly conformed horse wanted to breed.
>Without seeing anyone ride, she also made dubious training suggestions
>("he wants to jump"), ("his saddle hurts"), etc.
>People believing that kind of nonesense could them themselves or their
>horses hurt. This is not a harmless exercise. These people are
>dangerous.>>
>There are plenty people in this world that aren't *real*...you can't
>effectively use your experience with one woman to conclude that hundreds of
>people are all lying quacks...I'm quite sure that a number of them are
>fakes...but it's impossible for me to say they are ALL fakes when I haven't met
>all of them and seen all of them do their stuff...
Well, I'm going to tip my hand on this and say no, maybe you can't. On
the other hand, the facts that none of them has ever proved under
controlled conditions to be able to do what they say they're doing and
that no mechanism for doing this has ever been generated means that you
can say they're pretty likely to be fakes :-).
I would clarify a bit--to me "fake" suggests conscious deception, and I
think some of these people (though not all) actually believe they're doing
what they say they are. Happens I don't.
Deborah Stevenson (stev...@alexia.lis.uiuc.edu)
Who senses her cookies are near done in Champaign, IL, USA
Johdug
>There has never, as in ever, been one, as in one, instance of anyone
>anywhere being able to demonstate any sort of psychic ability whatsoever.
>None, nada, zip, zero.
>
My, my, my! What a bold statement! Here is one for you, oh One of Unbelief:
It is the account found in- -get ready-- the Bible.
Acts 16:16-18...
"Once when we were going to the place of prayer, we were met by a slave girl
who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal
of money for her owners by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and the
rest of us, shouting,'These men are servants of the Most High God, who are
telling you the way to be saved.' She kept this up for many days. Finally
Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, 'In the
name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!' At that moment the
spirit left her."
In this account it, the teaching seems to be that psychic abilities are
possible, but the Bible teaches that we are to stay away from such practices.
( Deuteronomy and Galations)
How's that for controversy on rec. eq??
...jennifer
Jackie
Stevenson) wrote:
>I would clarify a bit--to me "fake" suggests conscious deception, and I
>think some of these people (though not all) actually believe they're doing
>what they say they are. Happens I don't.
Tee-hee, now I'll upset everyone again. This is a deception, but most
of the time it is the one who is doing the 'communicating' who is
decieved. They are hearing something, some of it may be uncannily
accurate, but it is not the horse they are hearing, any more than it
is the voice of one's dead ancesters that the spiritualist hears - for
this is exactly the same kind of thing.
Jackie.
Tom Stovall
re: ESP with animals. "There has never, as in ever, been one, as in one,
instance of anyone anywhere being able to demonstrate any sort of
psychic ability whatsoever..." -TvG
[deletia fore and aft]
> My, my, my! What a bold statement! Here is one for you, oh One of
> Unbelief: It is the account found in- -get ready-- the Bible. Acts
> 16:16-18...
What one chooses to believe is a matter of personal choice and none of
anyone else's business. That is, until one attempts to substitute what
one believes for what one knows in an attempt to demonstrate the
existence of a phenomenon. Belief is not knowledge.
The indisputable fact is that nobody has been able to demonstrate
paranormal or supernatural powers under controlled conditions. The
recounting of things that allegedly happened 2,000 years ago are
demonstrations of belief, not demonstrations of knowledge.
Whether or not one chooses to believe the anecdotes contained in an
allegedly holy book, it seems the present crop of horse psychics, horse
communicators, con-artists, flim-flam men, charlatans and other scam
personnel are unwilling or unable to relieve James Randi of his
million-plus bounty on the successful demonstration of any paranormal
or supernatural "powers."
Tom Stovall
AFA Journeyman Farrier
sto...@wt.net
http://web.wt.net/~stovall
"Los muertos no hablan." -Francisco "Pancho" Villa
William Kambic
There is no assertion here that the slave girl's predictions were accurate,
only that they were profitable. Seems to me there are lots of people in
the world today in the same class as this slave girl.
Ain't "litteral interpretation" of the Bible a bitch?<g>
Bill Kambic
Former AOHeller
Johdug <joh...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808021245...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
> Terry von Gease wrote:
>
> >There has never, as in ever, been one, as in one, instance of anyone
> >anywhere being able to demonstate any sort of psychic ability
whatsoever.
> >None, nada, zip, zero.
> >
>
> My, my, my! What a bold statement! Here is one for you, oh One of
Unbelief:
>
> It is the account found in- -get ready-- the Bible.
>
> Acts 16:16-18...
>
John Nagle
>Whether or not one chooses to believe the anecdotes contained in an
>allegedly holy book, it seems the present crop of horse psychics, horse
>communicators, con-artists, flim-flam men, charlatans and other scam
>personnel are unwilling or unable to relieve James Randi of his
>million-plus bounty on the successful demonstration of any paranormal
>or supernatural "powers."
Very true. The Committee for Scientific Investigation of the
Paranormal has had that offer outstanding for almost twenty years.
Three times, people have tried for it, with embarassing results.
Communicating with horses is mostly via body language.
If you want to do this, spend a few days watching horses in pasture.
Read "Talking With Horses" by Henry Blake for some guidance.
This is a learnable skill.
John Nagle
Snezewort
>Tee-hee, now I'll upset everyone again. This is a deception, but most
>of the time it is the one who is doing the 'communicating' who is
>decieved. They are hearing something, some of it may be uncannily
>accurate, but it is not the horse they are hearing, any more than it
>is the voice of one's dead ancesters that the spiritualist hears - for
>this is exactly the same kind of thing.
>
>Jackie.
>
That's right. They're getting their info from the horse's connections. And
they aren't aware they are doing it any more than the folks they are actually
communicating with know they are giving it.
These people are highly skilled interviewers, so highly skilled that they are
not aware of the signals they are receiving that tell them they are on the
right track. They think it's telepathy.
Simple controlled test for someone willing to put out the bucks for a
"communicator" -- take the horse to a different barn (there are clues all over
his own barn), and send the communicator to see the horse _alone_. Tell the
communicator _nothing_ about the horse, not even name, age, sex or breed (all
clues). Have the communicator write down all the info he/she gets from the
horse. Guaranteed to be vague, if the "communicator" even agreees to do it,
which he/she probably won't.
Deb Hendrickson
Duluth, Minnesota
Snez...@aol.com
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
snip
> Communicating with horses is mostly via body language.
>If you want to do this, spend a few days watching horses in pasture.
>Read "Talking With Horses" by Henry Blake for some guidance.
>This is a learnable skill.
Yeah.
I used to play "psychic" on my friends in high school--but I knew darn
good and well what I was doing was careful observation of body
language. Was best at it when I was intensely involved in trying to
make a show horse out of Sparkle and spending a lot of time thinking
about body language (especially when we were working showmanship--4-H
halter--training).
One interesting phenomenon I've noticed when working with a horse, is
that when I'm very focused and "on" (like I was during my boot camp
riding session last week) that I seem to focus more on peripheral
vision rather than straight ahead version. It doesn't go away, it's
there when I need it, but my peripheral vision is definitely dominant.
It's weird, but even in post contact memories what I recall is
peripheral vision, not normal human straight ahead vision. The horses
also seem to work better when I'm in that mode, both on the ground and
under saddle.
Anyone else notice this?
jrw
Joel B Levin
joh...@aol.com (Johdug) wrote:
:Terry von Gease wrote:
:
:>There has never, as in ever, been one, as in one, instance of anyone
:>anywhere being able to demonstate any sort of psychic ability whatsoever.
:>None, nada, zip, zero.
:>
:
:My, my, my! What a bold statement! Here is one for you, oh One of Unbelief:
:
:It is the account found in- -get ready-- the Bible.
:
:Acts 16:16-18...
[ snip quotation of apocryphal "testament" ]
:How's that for controversy on rec. eq??
It's ok for controversy, I suppose, but quoting a 1900 year old work of
fiction to document an actual demonstration is hardly valid.
At least you could provide names, dates, places?
--
Nets: levin/at/bbn.com | Those who cavalierly reject the Theory of
or jbl/at/levin.mv.com| Evolution, as not adequately supported by facts,
or levinjb/at/gte.net | seem quite to forget that their own theory is
ARS: KD1ON | supported by no facts at all. --H. Spencer
Johdug
> it seems the present crop of horse psychics, horse
>communicators, con-artists, flim-flam men, charlatans and other scam
>personnel are unwilling or unable to relieve James Randi of his
>million-plus bounty on the successful demonstration of any paranormal or
supernatural "powers."
I never heard of James Randi until you mentioned him. It does seem a shame
that those would-be psychics don't take him up on this million dollar offer!
Let me know if you hear of takers. I like to keep up with what's going on out
there! ...jennifer
Johdug
>There is no assertion here that the slave girl's predictions were accurate,
>only that they were profitable.
It is simply an account of an event. It is up to each reader's interpretation.
Since I accept the Bible as the truth, then I would say the slave girl's
predictions were true.
>Seems to me there are lots of people in
>the world today in the same class as this slave girl.
You are right about that.
>Ain't "litteral interpretation" of the Bible a bitch?<g>
I have never considered it to be a "bitch" at all. I love it. Even when it is
difficult or confusing, it is very interesting to me. I spend hours searching
the "actual" hebrew or greek vocabulary. I am- to use Tom Ivers' word -
pedantic about biblical accuracy. I love all the historical,
archaelogical,etc. facts that are out there concerning the subject.
...jennifer
Johdug
>It's ok for controversy, I suppose, but quoting a 1900 year old work of
>fiction to document an actual demonstration is hardly valid.
It is your opinion that it is a work of fiction. I could debate the validity
of the Bible for hours with you, but this is not the place for it. (Too bad,
because I make a heck of an argument!)
>At least you could provide names, dates, places?
The name of the slave girl is not mentioned. The biblical account was written
by the writer of the 3rd gospel, Luke. He gives the names of Paul and Silas in
the passage. The place was Phillipi. The actual date is not given.
Let's not spend too much time debating this as it is quickly heading out of the
"ESP with animals" thread!!
...jennifer
Darryl Wagoner
r
> >this information, it will be the best money you have ever spent.
>
> Anyone who claims any abilities along these line is a liar or a fool or
> both. Anyone who would act on the dubious advice of one of these
> swamis is merely a fool.
>
Be carefully! Don't be too quick to close your mind or open your
wallets.
I have seen things and done things that would cause you
to question what you just said. Having said that anyone enlisting
the services of a psychic should use them with a great deal of caution.
Psychic information should be verified before using it. Don't start
treating a horse or person based upon psychic reading.
Here is my RED FLAGS phases for a psychic being a fake:
1. You are more ethical than blank (i.e.: horse trainer, business
person, etc.)
2. You are better than most BLANK
3. You are more intelligent than average
4. You intuition is superior than others in your field.
5. You need to come back for ....
6. I can fix your problem
7. Your a nonconformist
I am sure you can see a pattern here. These came out of a handbook book
for Pseudo
Psychic(this is really on the cover of the book). Boy that sounds like
fakes to me!
I went to one so called psychic and she would allow anyone in room while
she was doing
the reading except the person being read. My wife and a friend also had
readings. From
what we could tell everyone of us got the same reading. But it was a
Microsoft reading
(100% correct and totally useless).
Ok, now that you know how to spot a PSEUDO PSYCHIC, how do you pick out
a real psychic?
1. They can tell you information that is at least 90% correct that is
UNIQUE to
you or your interest that they would have no way of knowing. But this
information can not apply to 70% or more of the world (I know I was
repeating myself).
See the list about for a sample.
That really covers it.
--
Darryl Wagoner - International Friends of Horses (IFOH)
dar...@ifoh.org http://www.ifoh.org
Jackie
> I never heard of James Randi until you mentioned him. It does seem a shame
>that those would-be psychics don't take him up on this million dollar offer!
>Let me know if you hear of takers. I like to keep up with what's going on out
>there! ...jennifer
No one will because although there have been many, many demonstrations
of spiritual effects in controlled conditions, all science can say is
something happened, and they don't know what it is. Take for example
the controlled Memomides (sp) studies - hundreds of them, conducted
over a period of ten years, that I heard about just the other day.
They were investigating dream 'interference' and had one person locked
in a room at one end of a hospital, and another locked in the other
with electrodes etc stuck all over him, in a bed. They woke him every
time he entered REM, and asked him to describe his dreams, while the
one at the other end tried to 'transmit' details of a painting all
night long. A statistician eventually calculated the odds of the
results as being 75 million to one over chance, and similar studies
are still being done to this day with waking patients, listening to
white noise with their eyes covered. But they still have no idea what
they are demonstrating, they think it might be telepathy, but they can
come to no conclusion.
I might get the references if I remember.
Jackie
Tom Stovall
[deletia}
> Ok, now that you know how to spot a PSEUDO PSYCHIC, how do you pick > > out a real psychic?...
Trick question, right?
Since psychic "power" has never been demonstrated, a reasonable person
might assume there's no such critter as a "real" psychic; i.e., somebody
with paranormal or supernatural "powers". It then follows that anybody
who claims that ability is lying, either to themselves and/or to the
folks they are attempting to fleece.
When one thinks about it, why would any psychic want your dollar when
he could have James Randi's million plus? All it will take is a single
successful demonstration of paranormal ability under controlled
conditions. And, if a self-proclaimed psychic can't/won't demonstrate
their "power" for a million, why would anyone believe they have any
"power" to demonstrate?
Darryl Wagoner
>
> Darryl Wagoner wrote:
>
> [deletia}
>
> > Ok, now that you know how to spot a PSEUDO PSYCHIC, how do you pick > > out a real psychic?...
>
> Trick question, right?
Cute!
>
>
> When one thinks about it, why would any psychic want your dollar when
> he could have James Randi's million plus? All it will take is a single
> successful demonstration of paranormal ability under controlled
> conditions. And, if a self-proclaimed psychic can't/won't demonstrate
> their "power" for a million, why would anyone believe they have any
> "power" to demonstrate?
This is a good question. I wish I had a good answer for it. I don't
think
it is quite as black and white as that. First I have seen people
blinded by
science the same way they are by other believes. Randi may be such a
person. No matter what they do won't be enough for him. Since he is
the
judge of the event and has a lot to lose, how can we be sure he is
on the level. On the same lines, I am sure he doesn't have time
to try to debunk every psychic/paranormal person in the world. So how
does he pick the ones he want to debunk?
I will give you an example of something that happen to me which I am
sure could be repeated for Randi.
I was home on leave from the Navy and my parents had just moved to
a new house in the country. My father was talking about witching for
water
(dowsing) for the well. I attempted to explain to him that dowsing is
nothing more than your unconscious mind causing the movements of the
divining rod. Of course he disagreed. Beginning a smart a** kid I
found
great fun in poking fun at my old man's superstitious. Well he took it
just about as long as he could, then saying OK wise guy come with me.
He went and cut a forked Elm branch. He showed me how to hold it and
told me to walk around until it pointed to the ground. No problem I
thought. It wasn't going to point to the ground because I wasn't going
to let it. As I walked it pointed to the ground. It had to twist off
bark
and skin to do, but it did. As far as I know my father has never
charged
a fee for doing this and I only did that once, but will try again soon.
Until today (20 years) later I have only told a few people about this.
To him it wasn't nothing special, just the way to find where to drill.
I have meet real psychic which didn't tell me what I wanted to hear
and was very correct about their readings. Yes, do believe there are
real ones, but seems to be more fakes.
Always keep an open mind. Minds work better that away.
Tim Shurtleff
Isn't that the same thing that Sally Swift referred to as "Soft eyes" in her
book, Centered Riding (highly recommended, BTW) -- One of her basic principles.
When I am able to unfocus and use my soft eyes when I ride, I am more attuned to
the whole horse and my whole body, instead of the component skills (heels down,
lower leg still, hands still, seat legs, don't hunch over etc, etc, etc.)
Whenever I concentrate on just one thing or focus too intently on one thing,
everything else goes to hell. Allowing soft eyes to work, allows me to
integrate the rest. But then I guess that was Sally's point, after all. Maybe
vision is just such a powerful sense, and most sighted people are so dependent
on it that we need to unfocus it to allow the rest of our senses to come
together.
If you have ever seen a visually impaired person ride a dressage test with
"living letters" you gain a whole different understanding of the value of the
other senses, including the proprioceptive sense (where your body parts are in
space). Unlike the sighted person who rides into the arena from A, halts at X
and salutes the judge and does the test, the visually impaired person rides the
arena a few times listening to her living letters and fixes their location in
her mind, relative to her and then goes to X and rides the test by ear and feel.
It is a pretty awesome and humbling sight to see.
Tim.
Tim Shurtleff
Organization Effectiveness Consulting Practice: http://www.usmo.com/~tshrtlef/
Horsey website: http://www.usmo.com/~tshrtlef/timhorse.html for horse/farm stuff and some PARALYMPICS EQUESTRIAN GAMES pictures and memories.
ACORD Website (American Competition Opportunities for Riders with Disabilities) http://members.aol.com/acordcomp
jkil...@mcia.com
dar...@ifoh.org wrote:
(snipped parts)
>My father was talking about witching for
> water
> (dowsing) for the well.
> To him it wasn't nothing special, just the way to find where to drill.
If it works in finding water, how come it doesn't
work in finding oil & gas?
down the tejas trails....
jane kilberg & her GOS (Gang of Spots)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Jackie
Shurtleff) wrote:
>Isn't that the same thing that Sally Swift referred to as "Soft eyes" in her
>book, Centered Riding (highly recommended, BTW) -- One of her basic principles.
>
>When I am able to unfocus and use my soft eyes when I ride, I am more attuned to
>the whole horse and my whole body, instead of the component skills (heels down,
>lower leg still, hands still, seat legs, don't hunch over etc, etc, etc.)
>Whenever I concentrate on just one thing or focus too intently on one thing,
>everything else goes to hell. Allowing soft eyes to work, allows me to
>integrate the rest. But then I guess that was Sally's point, after all. Maybe
>vision is just such a powerful sense, and most sighted people are so dependent
>on it that we need to unfocus it to allow the rest of our senses to come
>together.
I'd say that was pretty accurate. The research on 'the zone' showed
that the conscious mind was far less active at such times, and this
process of learning to silence the gabbling mind is a large part of
meditation. I have a theory that as interpretation of vision has been
shown to take up an enormous amount of 'computing power' in the brain,
that soft eyes may reduce the amount of 'memory' needed for that, and
free it up to be more receptive to the inner feel. Sally found after
she had defined this approach that it was similar to martial arts
practice, which is, of course, a spiritual discipline - (one I would
not recommend).
Jackie
jkil...@mcia.com
tshr...@mail.usmo.com (Tim Shurtleff) wrote:
(snipped )
> If you have ever seen a visually impaired person ride a dressage test with
> "living letters" you gain a whole different understanding of the value of the
> other senses, including the proprioceptive sense (where your body parts are in
> space). Unlike the sighted person who rides into the arena from A, halts at X
> and salutes the judge and does the test, the visually impaired person rides the
> arena a few times listening to her living letters and fixes their location in
> her mind, relative to her and then goes to X and rides the test by ear and feel.
> It is a pretty awesome and humbling sight to see.
I agree. And we can all learn from that, too. A few
years ago, I first saw people who were partially
blind ride at a stable where I was taking jumping
and hunt lessons. I got to be friends with a gal who
gave me some insight into what a partially bline
person senses. She told me how difficult it was
when she first began loosing her sight due to an
eye disease that took hold after an accident.
While practicing my lessons, I began closing my
eyes. Boy, my body felt strange, like I was going
to fall. But actually, my body was getting in line
with the horse's movement. My eyes had lied to me
as to what was balancing! Once I began to relax and
not fight the feeling - go with the flow - I began to
be much more intune with the horse's movement
than before.
Now, whenever I don't ride for a while, which
happens when you're a breeder, I go back to those
exercises for a tune up!
If anyone tries this, you'll be amazed. You'll feel
parts of the horse you weren't aware of before.
But do it in an arena or small area in which both
you and your horse are comfortable and familar.
Don't try to blindfold yourself on a trail ride!
Thanks Tim for your post.
down the tejas trails.....
Darryl Wagoner
jkil...@mcia.com wrote:
> In article <35C4F30F...@ifoh.org>,
> dar...@ifoh.org wrote:
>
> (snipped parts)
> >My father was talking about witching for
> > water
> > (dowsing) for the well.
> If it works in finding water, how come it doesn't
> work in finding oil & gas?
Warning Smart Ass remark. Gee, I don't know how come you can't drink oil
or gas?
One of the things he did say was the water had to be in motion. Oil and gas
isn't.
But that is only a guess. I just know what happen, but I don't understand
it. It would be
fun to guess, but this is really getting outside the scope of the thread and
this group.
-darryl
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
>
>Isn't that the same thing that Sally Swift referred to as "Soft eyes" in her
>book, Centered Riding (highly recommended, BTW) -- One of her basic principles.
Hmm, wouldn't know because I haven't read Sally Swift. Yet. Hmm.
Now I've gotta do it.
I've just kinda identified this phenomenon to myself in the last few
weeks and been thinking about it a lot, so that I could present it
here in a coherent form and find out if I was all wet or if it was
something others go through as well.
Ah, yes, I tell ya, rec.eq is a necessary part of developing one's
equine skills these days!
;->
jrw
jkil...@mcia.com
dar...@icoms.com wrote:
>
>
> jkil...@mcia.com wrote:
>
> > In article <35C4F30F...@ifoh.org>,
> > dar...@ifoh.org wrote:
> >
> > (snipped parts)
> > >My father was talking about witching for
> > > water
> > > (dowsing) for the well.
>
> > If it works in finding water, how come it doesn't
> > work in finding oil & gas?
>
> Warning Smart Ass remark. Gee, I don't know how come you can't drink oil
> or gas?
Your vehicles do.
> One of the things he did say was the water had to be in motion. Oil and gas
> isn't.
this is interesting. Wonder if it's really true.
Most wells tap into underground aquifers which do
move. However, the well company didn't use a
divining stick to locate it. We know a lot more
about what's under ground than in years past.
> But that is only a guess. I just know what happen, but I don't understand
> it. It would be
> fun to guess, but this is really getting outside the scope of the thread and
> this group.
Yeah, it is, but a nice pleasant and interesting
diversion. I didn't know anyone who used the
method your dad did in locating water.
OB Horsie: Farrier was here today and the
yearling acted up big time. So had to do a quick
little training session to remind Arlo about his
manners. He was a gentleman after that. Those
youngsters do test you from time to time.
down the tejas trails......
Mary Healey
>..It's weird, but even in post contact memories what I recall is
>peripheral vision, not normal human straight ahead vision. The horses
>also seem to work better when I'm in that mode, both on the ground and
>under saddle.
>
>Anyone else notice this?
Yup. I think it's more an artifact of concentrating on *feel*
- humans tend to be so very visually oriented that the
impression you retain when focusing on other senses is one of
"peripheral" vision.
Like when you're riding, and you're trying to "see" what the
horse's hind legs are doing. You're not actually bending
around and peering at the legs, you're interpreting what you
feel through your seat and legs in a visual manner.
M.
K. Smith
difference is take off our spectacles. :)
--K. Smith (legally blind without those Coke bottle lenses)
jkil...@mcia.com wrote in article <6q4dfm$tvm$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> In article <35c4e83...@news.usmo.com>,
> tshr...@mail.usmo.com (Tim Shurtleff) wrote:
<snip>
> While practicing my lessons, I began closing my
> eyes.
<snip some more>
PITZERCP
she came the skeptics in my barn were laughing until---they had one mare done
for their granddaughter---first thing out of Lydia s mouth "the mare wants to
know why you did not rebreed her to that beautifuk chestnut stallion"---well
needless to say the mare had been bred 2 months earlier was not in foal but the
description of the stallion was right on--they had all their horses done and
are now believers----Lydia is the best--Carol
Tim Shurtleff
I have one mare, Cory, that does 20M circles with me blindfolded if I wanted her
to. Rather than have someone longe me on her, I tuck the reins in my belt,
close my eyes and trot and canter her on a circle in the arena. It is great for
working on a secure independent seat, especially with arms extended out or up.
Her trot is like a metronome and she keeps the circle pretty round all by
herself.
You really do get an entirely different feel with eyes closed and no hands on
the reins. It has done wonders for my being able to stay "glued" to the saddle
and feeling secure no matter what the horse does.
PITZERCP
this---what I would like to know is how she knew that a mare being read missed
her shoes(she did not know mare had been a padded show horse TWH---now flatshod
-keg shod--public barn only TWH--) she said the mare missed her big feet---we
all looked at each other and laughed---how did she know that the shoes had been
off for only one week---and how did she know that my mare had had pain in her
right front foot---she was standing in shavings up to her pasterns and Lydia
walked into her stall and touched her shoulder and says--she has had a lot of
pain in this foot but it is much better now-------I am a believer after
thiis---Carol
CMNewell
>yep--have read this book---and Lydia will tell you that all of us can do
>this---what I would like to know is how she knew that a mare being read missed
>her shoes(she did not know mare had been a padded show horse TWH---
Wow. You mean to say she accurately diagnosed your horse as an equine
masochist? I'm impressed!
CMNewell, DVM
*****
Surgeon General of rec.eq Bogbash party
Recipient of the Bogbash anti-Equus favorite vet award
The Chuck of Eq
jkil...@mcia.com
199808032248...@ladder01.new
s.aol.com>,
pitz...@aol.com (PITZERCP) wrote:
> yep--have read this book---and Lydia will tell you that all of us can do
> this---what I would like to know is how she knew that a mare being read missed
> her shoes(she did not know mare had been a padded show horse TWH---now flatshod
> -keg shod--public barn only TWH--) she said the mare missed her big feet---we
> all looked at each other and laughed---how did she know that the shoes had been
> off for only one week---
(snipped)
She is a lot more observant than you are.
down the tejas trails....
wkambic
> <snip>
>
> I'd say that was pretty accurate. The research on 'the zone' showed
> that the conscious mind was far less active at such times, and this
> process of learning to silence the gabbling mind is a large part of
> meditation. I have a theory that as interpretation of vision has been
> shown to take up an enormous amount of 'computing power' in the brain,
> that soft eyes may reduce the amount of 'memory' needed for that, and
> free it up to be more receptive to the inner feel. Sally found after
> she had defined this approach that it was similar to martial arts
> practice, which is, of course, a spiritual discipline - (one I would
> not recommend).
>
> Jackie
I don't think its so much a reduction of "brain computing power" as a surrender of
"vision dominance." We are visual creatures (men, seemingly, more than women). When
we soften our vision, we not only reduce "dead ahead focus" we begin to rely more
upon the other senses (particularly balance). This "going with the flow" will permit
the rider to move more harmoniously with the horse.
Perhaps one of the more dramatic types of this activity would be longe line exercises
with the eyes shut. While this is not recommended except under the supervision of a
very well qualified instructor (lest the ground rise up and smite thee<g>), it can be
a great aid in learning about what horse movement "feels" like and how to begin to
adapt human movement to horse movement.
Bill Kambic
Terry von Gease
Accuracy? You're talking about a collection of tales passed on by bands
of ignorant goat herders who, when they weren't molesting the goats,
picking lice from each others pelts, or pointing at the sun they were
hanging around the campfire eating something off of which they'd just
burned the hair and playing neolithic 'Can You Top This'. Accuracy isn't
even a concept here.
I should think that any self-respecing god that had a bevy of
microcephalics scurrying about convinced that the collection of bilge
known far and wide as the bible, in any of it's countless iterations,
was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, it'd be forced
to smite them for being terminally stupid and a general embarassment to
the rest of the human race.
--
Terry A proper signature should sum up one's entire
philosophy and, at the same time, cause anyone who
reads it to question everything in which they
believe.
PITZERCP
drinkers) and probably smoked dope---as the truth---they also were trying to
enslave women as lesser then men----not flaming just asking---
Donna Pattee
Johdug <joh...@aol.com> wrote:
>Terry von Gease wrote:
>
>>There has never, as in ever, been one, as in one, instance of anyone
>>anywhere being able to demonstate any sort of psychic ability whatsoever.
>>None, nada, zip, zero.
>>
>
>My, my, my! What a bold statement! Here is one for you, oh One of Unbelief:
>
>It is the account found in- -get ready-- the Bible.
>
>Acts 16:16-18...
>
>who had a spirit by which she predicted the future. She earned a great deal
>of money for her owners by fortune-telling. This girl followed Paul and the
>rest of us, shouting,'These men are servants of the Most High God, who are
>telling you the way to be saved.' She kept this up for many days. Finally
>Paul became so troubled that he turned around and said to the spirit, 'In the
>name of Jesus Christ I command you to come out of her!' At that moment the
>spirit left her."
>
>In this account it, the teaching seems to be that psychic abilities are
>possible, but the Bible teaches that we are to stay away from such practices.
>( Deuteronomy and Galations)
>
>How's that for controversy on rec. eq??
>
Coffee-on-the-monitor time!
ObHorsey: my horsey communicates that she wants more grain and she'd rather
be turned out with the black horse than that damned paint mare.
Johdug
> You're talking about a collection of tales passed on by bands
>of ignorant goat herders who, when they weren't molesting the goats,
>picking lice from each others pelts, or pointing at the sun they were
>hanging around the campfire eating something off of which they'd just
>burned the hair and playing neolithic 'Can You Top This'.
Names? Place? Dates? You quote from your imagination?
By the way, I must need a bigger dictionary to understand your posts. Try
talking to me down here on my level if you want responses from me. You are
just too lofty for me, Oh mighty man of pen and mouth.
>microcephalics
This word is not in my dictionary.
>I should think that any self-respecing god that had a bevy of
>microcephalics scurrying about convinced that the collection of bilge
>known far and wide as the bible, in any of it's countless iterations,
>was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, it'd be forced
>to smite them for being terminally stupid and a general embarassment to
>the rest of the human race.
Do you consider Billy Graham terminally stupid? What about Thomas Jefferson,
Benjamin Franklin? Our horsey brother, ROY ROGERS???!!!
..jennifer ( a proper signature should be intelligent and should cause no one
to question what it says or it should just be funny)
Mary
>
> >microcephalics
>
> This word is not in my dictionary.
Roughly means: small (micro) brain (cephalic).
Mary Papadopoulos
Johdug
>How can you take a book--- written by men --who were drinking(heavy wine
>drinkers) and probably smoked dope---as the truth---they also were trying to
>enslave women as lesser then men----not flaming just asking---
I wouldn't.
..jennifer
Snezewort
>What about Thomas Jefferson,
>Benjamin Franklin?
Jefferson and Franklin were Deists. Deism is not a religion, it's more of a
philosophical position which holds that while the universe might have been set
in motion by a divine force, or god if you will, that divinity promptly went
out for lunch and is still waiting for a table in the restaurant. Adopting
such a 'belief' was good strategy in a country where people were getting
lynched for having different beliefs from their neighbors.
In short, the mere existence of the Universe and Everything might require a
divine explanation (limitations of 18th century science) but said divinity
requires no worship and takes no interest in the universe's continued
operation. It's about as far from fundie Christianity as you can get without
joining Voltaire.
Deb Hendrickson
Duluth, Minnesota
Snez...@aol.com
Mary
and Snezewort replied:
> Jefferson and Franklin were Deists. Deism is not a religion, it's more of a
> philosophical position which holds that while the universe might have been set
> in motion by a divine force, or god if you will, that divinity promptly went
> out for lunch and is still waiting for a table in the restaurant.
Not to mention, TJ wrote his own version of the bible, taking the King
James version as a template and leaving out the parts he felt
irrelevant, inconsistant or inappropriate. How's that for faith in the
word?
<G>
Mary Papadopoulos
Ignatzmom
Thomas Jefferson,
>Benjamin Franklin?
How on earth did good old Tom end up in the same paragraph as Billy Graham on
the subject of religion? He and the rest of the founding crew, who were big on
things like the enlightenment, Rousseau and such would probably be rolling in
their graves at the thought of being coupled with the latter-day Billy Sunday.
OB horsey -- grabbed Sarah the B**** out of her paddock and forced her
magnificent self to actual work (read, move faster than a slow crawl) this
morning. Much moaning and groaning -- maybe she was speaking in tongues?
Lee, Still riding after all these years.
Laura Friedman
>
> Do you consider Billy Graham terminally stupid?
Yes. And evil to boot.
> What about Thomas Jefferson,
Not stupid, but not as squeaky clean as you might think. He owned
slaves, and also had babies with them.
> Benjamin Franklin?
Smart man. Didn't know he was particularly religious. He was a
scientist, you know - a profession Jackie seems to have distain for.
> Our horsey brother, ROY ROGERS???!!!
Not stupid, but definitely superstitious.
What's your point?
Donna Pattee
Johdug <joh...@aol.com> wrote:
>Terry vGease wrote:
>
>> You're talking about a collection of tales passed on by bands
>>of ignorant goat herders who, when they weren't molesting the goats,
>>picking lice from each others pelts, or pointing at the sun they were
>>hanging around the campfire eating something off of which they'd just
>>burned the hair and playing neolithic 'Can You Top This'.
>
>Names? Place? Dates? You quote from your imagination?
>
>By the way, I must need a bigger dictionary to understand your posts. Try
>talking to me down here on my level if you want responses from me. You are
>just too lofty for me, Oh mighty man of pen and mouth.
Aren't you embarassed to admit this? Which of the wrods in that paragraph
do you not understand? Ignorant? Pelts?
>
>>microcephalics
>
>This word is not in my dictionary.
I had to trouble finding it in mine. It is both an adjective and a noun.
(Oops, was that too big a word?)
>
>
>>I should think that any self-respecing god that had a bevy of
>>microcephalics scurrying about convinced that the collection of bilge
>>known far and wide as the bible, in any of it's countless iterations,
>>was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, it'd be forced
>>to smite them for being terminally stupid and a general embarassment to
>>the rest of the human race.
>
>Do you consider Billy Graham terminally stupid? What about Thomas Jefferson,
>Benjamin Franklin? Our horsey brother, ROY ROGERS???!!!
>
>..jennifer ( a proper signature should be intelligent and should cause no one
>to question what it says or it should just be funny)
ObHorsey: Horses. Horses. The subject is horses. There seem to be more than
the usual number of 4-H kids looking for suitable horses now that County
Fair is done. Seems like all the horses that are available are either
pretty undependable/untrained or way over-priced. Maybe we'll just wait
until people realize they aren't going to get $8000 for a horse just
because it won some ribbons at County Fair and then offer them a reasonable
price.
Jackie
Pattee) wrote:
>Aren't you embarassed to admit this? Which of the wrods in that paragraph
>do you not understand?
'Wrods' was the one I had most trouble with.
>(Oops, was that too big a word?)
Not big, no. Rather small I thought.
Jackie
Johdug
>Aren't you embarassed to admit this? Which of the wrods in that paragraph
>do you not understand? Ignorant? Pelts?
No, I am not afraid to admit it. I am aware that words like microcephalics are
not the standard vocabulary of the average american. Have you read many of his
posts?? I understand the "jist" of every thing he has to say, but sometimes I
grow a little weary of his "style" of writing because of the unusual choice of
words. I must also admit that I admire his grasp of vocabulary.( His
grammatical skill is a little questionable). It just wears me out. But no, I am
not embarassed that I don't know what microcephalics are. And actually I was
just trying to be a little funny. I guess it didn't cross over well in the
post.
>There seem to be more than
>the usual number of 4-H kids looking for suitable horses now that County
>Fair is done. Seems like all the horses that are available are either
>pretty undependable/untrained or way over-priced. Maybe we'll just wait
>until people realize they aren't
>going to get $8000 for a horse just
>because it won some ribbons at County Fair and then offer them a reasonable
>price.
Boy! Isn't that the truth! You used to be able to find a dependable kid's
horse for $3,500, but now there is a big hole in a horse of this price!
I agree, wait it out. ...jennifer
Mary Healey
>...I am aware that words like microcephalics are
>not the standard vocabulary of the average american.
It's in Webster (2nd ed., pub. 1937 or so - that's what we've got in the
office), and can also be found in Microsoft Bookshelf's on-line
dictionary. I've not found it useful to measure individuals against the
"average", american or otherwise.
>Have you read many of his posts??
As many as I can find, even in threads I usually ignore.
> I understand the "jist" of every thing he has to say, but sometimes I
>grow a little weary of his "style" of writing because of the unusual choice of
>words.
Whereas I enjoy TvG's version of plainspeaking - 'though I admit it is an
acquired taste.
>...But no, I am
>not embarassed that I don't know what microcephalics are.
It's a medical condition - but I think the slang translation would be
'pinhead'.
>...You used to be able to find a dependable kid's
>horse for $3,500, but now there is a big hole in a horse of this price!
With the stuffing leaking out, no doubt.
M.
jkil...@mcia.com
6qa6cf$n...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>,
Lfri...@nospam.net wrote:
> Johdug wrote:
> >
> > Do you consider Billy Graham terminally stupid?
>
Well, I wouldn't call BG stupid since he was smart
enough to emass a small fortune and stay out of
jail. And as for evil.....well, he doesn't ride
horses.
> > What about Thomas Jefferson,
>
> Not stupid, but not as squeaky clean as you might think. He owned
> slaves, and also had babies with them.
Yeah, but I hear tell he was a mighty fine
horseman. <g>
> > Benjamin Franklin?
>
> Smart man. Didn't know he was particularly religious. He was a
> scientist, you know - a profession Jackie seems to have distain for.
Was a real ladies man, too! He loved hobnobbing
with the rich & famous but they never would
really accept him.
> > Our horsey brother, ROY ROGERS???!!!
>
> Not stupid, but definitely superstitious.
Hey now....you're talking about my childhood idol
along with Tom Mix and Uncle Gene! Never could
cotton up to the man in a mask.
down the tejas trails.....
Johdug
>It's a medical condition - but I think the slang translation would be
>'pinhead'.
LOL!! You have a certain "je ne sais quoi" . I nearly fell out of my chair .
Thank you.
..jennifer
Johdug
>> > Our horsey brother, ROY ROGERS???!!!
>>
>> Not stupid, but definitely superstitious.
>
>Hey now....you're talking about my childhood idol
>along with Tom Mix and Uncle Gene! Never could
>cotton up to the man in a mask.
Jane! I knew we were kindred spirits in SOME realm!!!..........jennifer
Johdug
>Jefferson and Franklin were Deists.
I disagree and could debate this issue with you privately to show you the error
of your thinking. <g>
> Deism is not a religion, it's more of a
>philosophical position which holds that while the universe might have been
>set
>in motion by a divine force, or god if you will, that divinity promptly went
>out for lunch and is still waiting for a table in the restaurant. Adopting
>such a 'belief' was good strategy in a country where people were getting
>lynched for having different beliefs from their neighbors.
Thank you for this explanation of the theology of "Deism". I did not even ask
for it. It is simply AMAZING the amount of religious information to be found
here at rec. eq!
>In short, the mere existence of the Universe and Everything might require a
>divine explanation (limitations of 18th century science) but said divinity
>requires no worship and takes no interest in the universe's continued
>operation. It's about as far from fundie Christianity as you can get without
>joining Voltaire.
>
And I DO so enjoy Voltaire's writings. Some of his quotes about life are
favorites of mine.
Deb, I have so far truly enjoyed all of your posts, including this very
informative one. Your understanding of Deism is rather accurate. Your
understanding of the religion of Jefferson and Franklin is quite different from
mine, though. ..In other words, I think you are wrong on that
one......jennifer
Johdug
>> What about Thomas Jefferson,
>
>Not stupid, but not as squeaky clean as you might think. He owned
>slaves, and also had babies with them.
I didn't think he was squeaky clean. I knew about the adultery and slave
ownership. I just meant that he was intelligent and somehow still managed to
carry off a belief in God. He was also a horseman. If you ever get a chance go
to Monticello. It seems that he and Washington loved their horses!
>> Benjamin Franklin?
>
>Smart man. Didn't know he was particularly religious. He was a
>scientist, you know -
I have to admit that I was referring to Jefferson, Franklin, and Roy Rogers to
point out the fact that there have been plenty of intelligent, respected people
who proclaimed their faith. I am very sorry that I stooped to feeling the need
to defend myself against the likes of the anti-christian contingent here. The
truth is I don't want to get into a war on religion. If people out there
choose to reject my chosen faith , that is there business. And if I make
mention of my personal faith as it pertains to something mentioned here at rec.
eq...then I have no need to defend myself.
So...I regret that I drug Tom, Ben, and Roy into the discussion. And I am
really sorry that you said Billy Graham is stupid and evil..
...jennifer
look@this
>... sometimes I
>grow a little weary ...
So take a nap.
>...his "style" of writing ...
Irrelevant.
At least his 'style' includes ontopic information,
about actual horses.
You should have more of that quality in yours. Do
you hit your horse with the lead snap ? It doesn't
take a psychic to know the horse doesn't benefit in
any way from such actions, in any case ...
"Serene" *Sheila Green* "Sagacity" [aka Word Warrior green*@tristate.pgh.net]
"Eat me, and use your head for better than the absorption of monitor radiation."
http://minyos.its.rmit.edu.au/~s8904850/wisdom.html
http://www.olympus.net/personal/pvd/LamIntro.html#Interdigitate
http://www.jenkinspublishing.com/humanure.htm
Terry von Gease
>Terry vGease wrote:
>> You're talking about a collection of tales passed on by bands
>>of ignorant goat herders who, when they weren't molesting the goats,
>>picking lice from each others pelts, or pointing at the sun they were
>>hanging around the campfire eating something off of which they'd just
>>burned the hair and playing neolithic 'Can You Top This'.
>Names? Place? Dates? You quote from your imagination?
You mean something like "Thrag of the hill people, at the bend in the
river where the dog ate the baby, 1843bc"? That this cannot be done
is probably the single largest bit of empirical evidence that
lie swappping goat herders is a better explanation that your
presposterous god. There also exists an overwhelming volume
of rational evidence supporting the goat herder hypothesis.
Be that as it may, just what non-circular evidence do you bring to
the table that would indicate that this particular collection of
nonsense, your bible, is of some supernatural origin?
You do, of course, understand what non-circular means? In this case
we mean directly or tangentially. That means you have to show that
your particular set of gods authored this bilge, an act for which they
probably should be reviled rather than worshiped, without any flavor of
the classic question beg "god wrote the bible because the bible
says so".
>By the way, I must need a bigger dictionary to understand your posts. Try
>talking to me down here on my level if you want responses from me. You are
>just too lofty for me, Oh mighty man of pen and mouth.
>>microcephalics
>This word is not in my dictionary.
If it were you'd be able to recognize it because it would have your
likeness as an illustration.
>>I should think that any self-respecing god that had a bevy of
>>microcephalics scurrying about convinced that the collection of bilge
>>known far and wide as the bible, in any of it's countless iterations,
>>was the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth, it'd be forced
>>to smite them for being terminally stupid and a general embarassment to
>>the rest of the human race.
>Do you consider Billy Graham terminally stupid?
If he actually believes his own twaddle. Otherwise I consider him
a con man.
>What about Thomas Jefferson,
What about him? Big Tom might have had some problems and loose ends but
as far as anyone knows, mindless acceptance of the verity of this
particular collecttion of fairy tales wasn't one of them.
>Benjamin Franklin?
Same for him. Did you know that Old Ben was the father of numerous
illigitimate children. They used to call him 'Old Lightning Rod.'
>Our horsey brother, ROY ROGERS???!!!
Maybe your brother. I never had much use for a short squinty-eye
purveyor of anachronisms. Nonetheless, I toss him in the same
phiosophical dumpster as Billy Graham.
>..jennifer ( a proper signature should be intelligent and should cause no one
>to question what it says or it should just be funny)
You really do have a hard time with reading for comprehension.
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
>>Jefferson and Franklin were Deists.
>I disagree and could debate this issue with you privately to show you the error
>of your thinking. <g>
Uh-uh. Jefferson and Franklin were Deists. Once upon a time I was
was an amateur Jeffersonian student.
snip
>Deb, I have so far truly enjoyed all of your posts, including this very
>informative one. Your understanding of Deism is rather accurate. Your
>understanding of the religion of Jefferson and Franklin is quite different from
>mine, though. ..In other words, I think you are wrong on that
>one......jennifer
Jennifer, you'd be flying in the face of several noted historians as
well. To the best of my understanding, the generally assumed position
is that Jefferson, at least, was a throughgoing, hard-core Deist.
BTW, your snide comment about Jefferson siring babies on his slave
women is also questionable. Credible historians suspect a Jefferson
relative, and not Jefferson himself, as being the father of the
Hemings children.
jrw
Snezewort
>Your
>understanding of the religion of Jefferson and Franklin is quite different
>from
>mine, though. ..In other words, I think you are wrong on that
>one......jennifer
Of course you do. It puts a big hole in your argument from authority,
fallacious though it be.
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
snip
>I have to admit that I was referring to Jefferson, Franklin, and Roy Rogers to
>point out the fact that there have been plenty of intelligent, respected people
>who proclaimed their faith. I am very sorry that I stooped to feeling the need
>to defend myself against the likes of the anti-christian contingent here. The
>truth is I don't want to get into a war on religion. If people out there
>choose to reject my chosen faith , that is there business. And if I make
>mention of my personal faith as it pertains to something mentioned here at rec.
>eq...then I have no need to defend myself.
Jennifer, I'm a practicing Christian myself and I don't agree with the
statements you and Jackie have made about Christianity and
horsemanship. In past discussions with Jackie I've made the statement
that I think her opinion about the spiritual side of horses verges on
heresy, and I'll stick to that one.
However, since our differences are those within the fold, so to speak,
I've kept my mouth shut for the most part. But I will say that it is
exactly the sort of attitude expressed by those claiming to be of the
faith on this newsgroup which drove me from a conservative Protestant
church to not professing Christianity for many years. It took the
careful work of a good Roman Catholic priest to get me back within the
fold, and these days I'm quite happy to be a bead-jiggling Catholic.
Which is another reason why I tend to keep my mouth shut about it any
more, after my first go-round with Jackie, since I don't think it does
me or those outside the Faith (Christianity, that is, not Catholic or
Protestant) to get into an intra-faith battle.
I will say this, and no more. There's been some very good and
interesting Divine Intervention in my pursuit of Equestrian Art of
late, starting with the old Porsche gal blowing up as an eventing
prospect and ending up with the possibility of me going to a
Jean-Claude Racinet clinic. When doors are shut, a way will open, and
I've been storming heaven for some guidance as to which way to go
(while talking to rec.eq about it). Been a lotta candles burning
because I'm NOT afraid to ask for spiritual guidance in the equine
area. I trusted that a pathway would open for something else when the
door was closed to the eventing stuff for this year--and it has.
*That's* where I think faith is relevant--not in throwing Bible verses
at an audience that isn't interested and is most likely to react by
scoffing.
*That's* where I think a witness is relevant--not bashing people over
the head with Bible verses they won't accept anyway.
And, BTW, I thought above that you were the person claiming Jefferson
definitely was the father of the Hemings kids. I see now it was
Laura, and I apologize to you for my previous post.
jrw
PITZERCP
superior---even to BeatriceIMHO Carol
lydia Hiby is for real. She learned her communciations skills from Bea
Lydecker. I went to a couple of Bea's clinics where you learn how to
communicate with animals mentally. I was shocked at how often I was
"guessing" right.
PITZERCP
her---before she came----I was no where near her---nor did they give any clues
because ---the were skeptics---were is the key word here
imple controlled test for someone willing to put out the bucks for a
"communicator" -- take the horse to a different barn (there are clues all over
his own barn), and send the communicator to see the horse _alone_. Tell the
communicator _nothing_ about the horse, not even name, age, sex or breed (all
clues). Have the communicator write down all the info he/she gets from the
horse. Guaranteed to be vague, if the "communicator" even agreees to do it,
which he/she probably won't.
Jackie
(Joyce Reynolds-Ward) wrote:
>and ending up with the possibility of me going to a
>Jean-Claude Racinet clinic.
Cool good stuff - let us hear all about it if you do!
>*That's* where I think a witness is relevant--not bashing people over
>the head with Bible verses they won't accept anyway.
You are free to believe whatever you like, and take whatever role you
please. But do remember that 'the eye cannot say to the ear......'
simply because it doesn't like it's style.
Do you know exactly what the Lord has told Jennifer, or I, to do? Was
John the Baptist irrelevant? Or Jeremiah? Or Isiah? I'd say no to all.
Jackie
Johdug
> just what non-circular evidence do you bring to
>the table that would indicate that this particular collection of
>nonsense, your bible, is of some supernatural origin?
Terry, honey, if you really want to know how christians support their view of
the Bible, etc. please read up on it elsewhere or find a pastor to talk with.
I really think the rec. eq.ers are getting tired. I know I am.
>>>microcephalics
>
>>This word is not in my dictionary.
>
>If it were you'd be able to recognize it because it would have your
>likeness as an illustration.
If I didn't enjoy a good sense of humor, I would really be hurt by this.
sensitive horsewoman....jennifer
Johdug
>Uh-uh. Jefferson and Franklin were Deists. Once upon a time I was
>was an amateur Jeffersonian student.
Okay, I will consider that I could have misunderstood some quotes that I have
read by these two men. I will search them up again and get back to you on why
I thought these men were christians. Of course, I realize that this gets
off-topic, so I'll be brief when I find my information.
extremely needing to be accurate....jennifer
Johdug
>I will say this, and no more.
Too, bad because I loved this:
> There's been some very good and
>interesting Divine Intervention in my pursuit of Equestrian Art of
>late, starting with the old Porsche gal blowing up as an eventing
>prospect and ending up with the possibility of me going to a
>Jean-Claude Racinet clinic. When doors are shut, a way will open, and
>I've been storming heaven for some guidance as to which way to go
>(while talking to rec.eq about it). Been a lotta candles burning
>because I'm NOT afraid to ask for spiritual guidance in the equine
>area. I trusted that a pathway would open for something else when the
>door was closed to the eventing stuff for this year--and it has.
>
>*That's* where I think faith is relevant...(snipped the rest)
This is actually the kind of stuff I was hoping to find a place at rec. eq to
discuss!. This is what excites me and I would love to hear more of these
types of things shared somewhere. Maybe rec. eq is NOT the place, but I wish
others would not be afraid to share this part of their horsey world. <g>
But as my husband says, "Wish in one hand and spit in the other and see which
one fills up first!"
..hoping for a "christian equestrian forum"
...jennifer
Johdug
>Jennifer, I'm a practicing Christian myself and I don't agree with the
>statements you and Jackie have made about Christianity and
>horsemanship. In past discussions with Jackie I've made the statement
>that I think her opinion about the spiritual side of horses verges on
>heresy, and I'll stick to that one.
I don't know when you started reading my posts, but a few months ago I was
writing about how I see "God revealed" in my equestrian life. It seemed that
every where I turned, I saw examples and analogies of the christian walk in my
life with horses. -- Illustrations.-- I never considered that horses had a
"spirit". I am still not sure on this issue, and I too found Jackie's stance
out of my "doctrinal" beliefs. Since checking a few scriptural references and
reading a few christian authors who have a special connection with animals, I
am now open to the idea that they have a spirit of their own. Interestingly
enough, it was after reading about Saint Francis of Assisi that I had a
different view point. ( I'm sure you know he was Catholic). Anyway, the
people who knew him say that the closer he got to God the more time he spent
with animals-most of all birds.
I also believed that anyone could learn how to relate to horses if they would
just listen and learn! John Lyons, a professed christian, believes like I did.
If people would just be willing to take the time, they can learn. He doesn't
claim that it is necessary to be a christian to understand horses.( It is
interesting that he is a christian though.)
But I must admit, that I am starting to see that, for many people, if they are
not right within themselves, they will never fully communicate with horses as
well as those who do have peace within themselves.
It is not my intention to cram Bible verses down anyone's throat, and I intend
to be even more cautious about the way I respond to posts....but it seems that
most rec. eqers would prefer that Jackie and I keep our mouths closed
completely when it comes to religion. Am I supposed to slink back quietly in
my corner when I am questioned about where the *&*%# I get my ideas, so that I
won't offend the masses who are not interested in christianity? I am not
interested in Liotti, kimchee, horse trailer information, and several other
threads. I don't mind that others are talking about it.
I don't want to hurt christianiy with a bad witness. But I don't think I
should have to keep that aspect of my equestrian life under wraps because it
might offend someone.
I thank you for your post, and I will be more careful about how I word
things......jennifer
Johdug
>Do
>you hit your horse with the lead snap ?
Why do you ask this question? It made me laugh. Was it meant to be funny?
...just wonderin'....jennifer
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
snip
>This is actually the kind of stuff I was hoping to find a place at rec. eq to
>discuss!. This is what excites me and I would love to hear more of these
>types of things shared somewhere. Maybe rec. eq is NOT the place, but I wish
>others would not be afraid to share this part of their horsey world. <g>
It's not really the sort of thing I feel inclined to discuss as a
norm. I like to keep much of my spiritual life quiet, just because I
am working on it and would much rather have it pop out in daily life
and actions rather than sit around and talk about it. I'm more of a
contemplative on these things than a talker. And when I do talk, I
prefer hard-core theology to witnessing--to be kept within the fold,
so to speak.
snip
>..hoping for a "christian equestrian forum"
See, that wouldn't interest me at all.
What exposure to that sort of thing I've had sends me screaming away
in absolute horror. I kind of feel that a lot of these sorts of
so-called Christian forums have a distressing tendency to become a
"one upmanship witness game" rather than genuine sharing and support
in faith, and people start arguing about who's the better Christian
horseman and all.
Plus, the kind of forum I would be more interested in from that point
of view would not isolate horsemanship but would happen in something
where one examines one's whole life--and, for me, plentiful
opportunites for that sort of self-examination exist within my
particular corner of faith. I'm much more comfortable within the
formal structures of Catholicism than I am with the informal
equivalents I've experienced in the Protestant church. Much of it may
be due to the longer tradition of contemplation and meditation within
Catholicism (if you're interested, e-mail me and I'll give you some
references to get started). Fortunately, there are some good
contemplatives arising outside the Catholic tradition--I strongly
recommend Kathleen Norris (again, e-mail me for details). Anyway, it
matches me better.
When it comes to horsey support and all, if you look, there's a lot of
sharing and support on rec.eq, especially when someone's going through
tough times with their horses. Look at Petra, Deb, Tamera, Jessica,
me, Jorene, Robby...the list goes on. Here, I'd prefer to keep the
talk on horses first, and deal with the spiritual walk elsewhere.
jrw
Catja Pafort
>I also believed that anyone could learn how to relate to horses if they would
>just listen and learn!
Nobody will deny this. It's just that being a Christian, or being a
spiritually oriented person is by no means compulsory for listening
and learning. If *your* personal road takes you that way to arrive at
a point some poor deprived heathen <G> has arrived at in another way -
well, good for you, as long as you arrive. But do not expect anyone to
walk in your footsteps.
>But I must admit, that I am starting to see that, for many people, if they are
>not right within themselves, they will never fully communicate with horses as
>well as those who do have peace within themselves.
True again. But you can be at peace with yourself without having found
god, or the Christian God, or the Christian God of a particular branch
of Christianity.
>It is not my intention to cram Bible verses down anyone's throat, and I intend
>to be even more cautious about the way I respond to posts....but it seems that
>most rec. eqers would prefer that Jackie and I keep our mouths closed
>completely when it comes to religion.
Oh so true. Religion is a branch of your being that is only marginally
connected with the topic of this group - and I'm of the conviction
that religion is a very personal thing, that should not be shouted
from the rooftops.
>I don't want to hurt christianiy with a bad witness. But I don't think I
>should have to keep that aspect of my equestrian life under wraps because it
>might offend someone.
If you want to prove your christianity, live it. Show Christian traits
such as forgiveness and patience in your posts. Keeping your wording
neutral and on a common level for all to understand is the best way to
contribute to the discussion.
Catja
--
Catja Pafort
<http://www.aber.ac.uk/~cap96>
"Reality is for those who lack imagination."
(CMNewell on rec.eq)
wkambic
> ..hoping for a "christian equestrian forum"
>
> ...jennifer
May your wish be frustrated. Not because I want to cause you distress, but
because whenever you close the gate you keep out the good with the bad.
There is no such thing as Christian physics or chemistry or biology or
aerodynamics. Likewise, there is no such thing as "Christian equitation." The
equestrian art requires input from multiple sources. "Christian equitation"
would, I presume, require exclusion of Moslem Equitation, Aboriginal American
Equitation, Mongolian Equitation, etc. If anyone were so foolish as to attempt
the creation of Christian Equitation, it would quickly degenerate into the type of
foolishness one sees in closed intellectual systems.
The Catholic Church committed a major blunder at the Council of Trent when they
slammed the doors to keep out "corrupting" influences. Withdrawing from the world
did not prevent those corrupting influences from becoming manifest. It simply
prevented an early identification and correction. Your desire for a Christian
equestrian forum repeats that mistake.
By the way, there are a couple of Christian horse groups. One involves rodeo
cowboys. One is populated, I understand, by a large number of professional TWH
trainers (who, as a group, loudly tout their Christianity while they engage in
systematic horse torture; I guess they follow that brand of Christianity loved by
Tomas de Torquemada).
Bill Kambic
"Thank God for unanswered prayers." Garth Brooks
Donna Pattee
Johdug <joh...@aol.com> wrote:
>Patte from Colorado wrote:
No she didn't - that's my evil twin (thanks, Sheila :-} - or is it Shelia?)
>
>>Aren't you embarassed to admit this? Which of the wrods in that paragraph
>>do you not understand? Ignorant? Pelts?
>
>not the standard vocabulary of the average american. Have you read many of his
>posts?? I understand the "jist" of every thing he has to say, but sometimes I
>grow a little weary of his "style" of writing because of the unusual choice of
>grammatical skill is a little questionable). It just wears me out. But no, I am
>not embarassed that I don't know what microcephalics are. And actually I was
>just trying to be a little funny. I guess it didn't cross over well in the
>post.
I **always** read Terry's posts. They are short and to-the-point and sure
to contain pearls of wisdom not to be gleaned elsewhere.
>
>>There seem to be more than
>>the usual number of 4-H kids looking for suitable horses now that County
>>Fair is done. Seems like all the horses that are available are either
>>pretty undependable/untrained or way over-priced. Maybe we'll just wait
>>until people realize they aren't
>>going to get $8000 for a horse just
>>because it won some ribbons at County Fair and then offer them a reasonable
>>price.
>
>Boy! Isn't that the truth! You used to be able to find a dependable kid's
>horse for $3,500, but now there is a big hole in a horse of this price!
We got our first one for $300 just 10 years ago, the second for only $1500.
All summer long other 4-H parents have been offering my daughter lots of
money for her horse because they want him for their kids. I guess they
assume that she will want to sell him since she's going to college this
Fall. She has no intention of quitting riding, and she wouldn't sell this
horse anyway. Sorry, folks, that's her Rodeo Queen's horse for next year!
>
>I agree, wait it out. ...jennifer
Luckily we don't need another horse but 3 or 4 other families in our 4-H
club do. One family has been looking since the beginning of the year . . .
Terry von Gease
>Terry von Gease asks to FURTHER explain my religous convictions:
>> just what non-circular evidence do you bring to
>>the table that would indicate that this particular collection of
>>nonsense, your bible, is of some supernatural origin?
>Terry, honey, if you really want to know how christians support their view of
>the Bible, etc. please read up on it elsewhere or find a pastor to talk with.
>I really think the rec. eq.ers are getting tired. I know I am.
You made the claim that your reference work was of divine origin.
Complete the sentece "I know that the bible is of divine origin because..."
Just make it come out to be a simple delcarative sentence. Do not equivocate.
Any appearance of words such as 'if', 'but', 'unless' will render your
submission suspect. Further, make it a simple objective claim not having
faith or belief, directly or tangentially, as operativess and verifiable
by anyone whether they be between gods at the moment or not.
Not being able to do this will be held as prima facie evidence that
you live in a dream world and are mostly full of crap.
>>>>microcephalics
>>
>>>This word is not in my dictionary.
>>
>>If it were you'd be able to recognize it because it would have your
>>likeness as an illustration.
>If I didn't enjoy a good sense of humor, I would really be hurt by this.
The mere fact that you found it necessary to point it out would seem
to indicate that you do not possess a sense of humor and you were indeed
wounded.
>sensitive horsewoman....jennifer
Sensitive perhaps, but a horseman [that IS the proper term] I serously
doubt.
Mary
> Wouldn't it be simple to disprove any statement the *see-er* would proclaim by
> giving her an an unhonest request?
Absolutely. I like the examples you stated, re: lameness, moving etc.
However <EG> I am curious about how you would determine the correct
answer to this one:
> I just bought her a new halter, does she like the color? (Oh, god, why the
> frig whould you care about this anyway?)
It had me rolling, thinking of the end of Monty Python's Search for the
Holy Grail, where the fellow is asked "What's your favorite color?"
"Blue, no green.. aaaaahhh!"
LOL
Mary Papadopoulos
Laura Friedman
> The mere fact that you found it necessary to point it out would seem
> to indicate that you do not possess a sense of humor.
>
Circular argument. It could also be that the "joke" wasn't funny.
Laura
Jazanot
giving her an an unhonest request?
As:
My horse has been lame for a month now, what do you think? (Knowing full well
your horse had NOT been lame at any time.)
I just bought her, does she like me at our new home? (You owned the horse for
years.)
She hates her stablemate, what can we do to make her happy.
(The horse regularly stands nose to tail daily with the other horse, quite
happily.)
I just bought her a new halter, does she like the color? (Oh, god, why the
frig whould you care about this anyway?)
I believe there would be ways to *catch* any ESP communicator given enough
prethought.
Just a thought for you true believers to try someday.
Jaz,
Midnight Rainbow, Allegra, Kinzua, and Bailar del Bravio
(whew what a mouthful!)
jkil...@mcia.com
199808070256...@ladder03.ne
ws.aol.com>,
joh...@aol.com (Johdug) wrote:
(snipped parts)
>Maybe rec. eq is NOT the place, but I wish
> others would not be afraid to share this part of their horsey world. <g>
Religious beliefs or non-religious beliefs are
personal and varied. If a person needs faith in
order to become a person they hope to be, this is
fine. It may help that individual have a better
view of life whether it be with other humans or
with horses; help alleviate stress; help build
self-confidence and so on.
On rec.eq. Horse Language 101 is the common
denominator, not what religious beliefs you follow
or not. There are newsgroups available to discuss
your personal faith.
down the tejas trails.....
jane kilberg & her GOS (Gang of Spots)
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
jkil...@mcia.com
199808070249...@ladder01.ne> > (Joyce Reynolds-Ward) wrote:
(snipped parts)
> >Jennifer, I'm a practicing Christian myself and I don't agree with the
> >statements you and Jackie have made about Christianity and
> >horsemanship. In past discussions with Jackie I've made the statement
> >that I think her opinion about the spiritual side of horses verges on
> >heresy, and I'll stick to that one.
>
> I don't know when you started reading my posts, but a few months ago I was
> writing about how I see "God revealed" in my equestrian life.
Well, guess I shall then reveal how I found the
true light of the horse in a bottle at the ol'
watering hole.
>But I don't think I
> should have to keep that aspect of my equestrian life under wraps because it
> might offend someone.
One can find the light of the real equestrian life
through crack. Shall I pontificate on this as much
as you pontificate on how you found your god in
your equestrian life?
>
> I thank you for your post, and I will be more careful about how I word
> things.....
very careful......
jkil...@mcia.com
199808070224...@ladder01.ne
Why don't you write about their horsemanship.
Now that would be much more interesting.
jkil...@mcia.com
199808070257...@ladder03.ne
>
> >Do
> >you hit your horse with the lead snap ?
>
> Why do you ask this question? It made me laugh. Was it meant to be funny?
No it was not. Think about it for a while and you
might understand.
down the tejas trails....
look@this
>Snezewort correctly noted:
>>Jefferson and Franklin were Deists.
>I disagree and could debate this issue with you privately to show you the error
>of your thinking. <g>
Your substantiation for that would be _?_
Actually, you're just lying, by definition.
Does your 'religion' cause you to be false?
>... you are wrong ...
Your substantiation for that would be _?_
Actually, you're just lying, by definition.
Does your 'religion' cause you to be false?
Irrelevancies aside, do you share the notion
that only those who'd noisily call themselves
Christians could be the best horse trainers?
look@this
>... I was referring to Jefferson, Franklin, and Roy Rogers to
>point out the fact that there have been plenty of intelligent, respected people
>who proclaimed their faith...
Do you imagine those folks insisted that only
those making much ado about their Christianity
would be able to be the best horse trainers?
>... the anti-christian contingent here...
Your substantiation for that would be _?_
Unless you mean Pharisee Jackie, who makes her
particular form of snobbish bigotted cliquery
put any associated religion in a bad light ...
Irrelevancies aside, as far as humane treatment
of horses is concerned, certain forms of faith
have a much worse track record than others. I
leave it to you to determine which ones.
look@this
her high horse roughshod over the bodies of the world's starved
poor pontificating yet again on the subject of her own vast and
quite obvious hypocrisy, falsehood, hatred, and utter ignorance
(of basic English grammar, as well as anything/everything else):
>...Do you know exactly what the Lord has told ... I, to do?
Yes. You should be most ashamed that you yourself do not, too.
"Be ye therefore perfect, even as your Father which is in heaven
is perfect." ~KJV Mt 5:48
"If thou wilt be perfect, go and sell that thou hast, and give to
the poor ... and follow me." ~KJV Mt 19:21
So, Pharisee Jackie, ever actually =read= the book?
You're just a hypocrite, Jackie, by your own 'standard'.
If you can't stop hitting your horse in the head, you'd
be doing him a favor to sell him and give to the poor.
That's what they call a win-win situation.
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
*****Here's the kind of 'person' Jackie =really= likes:*****
*~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~*
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Subject: De Profundis
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Dear Surely Bitch,
For once in your pitiful fucking life get on fucking topic.
I ape the words of which you're so proud of unleashing upon
the world. In terms of adjectives. I'm seriously considering
dropping by that crappy little community college in which you
attempt to impart knowledge on the unknowing. In which case
you might care to be a bit more careful. It's possible I
could get in a violent mood and defend myself physically.
As you're so fond of telling strangers to "eat me", perhaps
I'll take you up on that. I'll bring a knife and fork. Yes,
join the war on poverty feed the BITCH to the poor.
Keep this shit up cunt and you'll eventually have to deal
with it in real life.
You despicable CUNT. (Can't understand normal thinking)
One more word to the same few women to whom you relentlessly
harass and I'll be forced to deal with your ugly self important ass.
Your Friend,
The Equalizer
Terry von Gease
Eh? You have a strange notion of just what cirularity might be.
But no matter what it is, this is most certainly not an example of it.
Rather it's an excercise in human nature. In general when some one says
'That didn't hurt', it probably hurt like hell. If it really didn't
hurt, they'd never have noticed anything upon which to comment.
Moreover, owners and operators of senses of humor seldom, if ever, have
to point this out to anyone.
Johdug
>Complete the sentece "I know that the bible is of divine origin because..."
And he gives me these stipulations for responding:
>Just make it come out to be a simple delcarative sentence. Do not equivocate.
I could do that easily.
>Any appearance of words such as 'if', 'but', 'unless' will render your
>submission suspect.
I could also meet this criteria.
> Further, make it a simple objective claim not having
>faith or belief, directly or tangentially, as operativess and verifiable
>by anyone whether they be between gods at the moment or not.
This is impossible. Surely you realize that religious convictions, beliefs in
God or any form of spiritual life is a matter of faith!!
Here is my statement without meeting all your criteria anyway...
I have a personal relationship with God, and He has made things know to me by
the presence of His spirit, that lives within me.
I could elaborate.
And to quote another. "You ask me how I know He lives, He lives within my
heart."
It is a faith thing.
>Not being able to do this will be held as prima facie evidence that
>you live in a dream world and are mostly full of crap.
I appreciate that you are now using phrases like, "MOSTLY" full of crap! I
think I am getting warm and fuzzy feelings for you.
..your neighbor....jennifer
Johdug
>Terry von Gease wrote:
>
>> The mere fact that you found it necessary to point it out would seem
>> to indicate that you do not possess a sense of humor.
>>
>Circular argument. It could also be that the "joke" wasn't funny.
Now THAT WAS funny!!!...jennifer
Johdug
>May your wish be frustrated. Not because I want to cause you distress, but
>because whenever you close the gate you keep out the good with the bad.
I don't want that forum as part of rec. eq because it is not wanted by the
majority here. I do want a place where I can share my love for horses AND my
love for God, because I feel that God has blessed me so much with the horses.
I would never "close the gate" but I don't want to have to stifle myself
amongst those who would be offended. I want to say, "Praise God, my mare got
pregnant on the first dose of shipped semen!" and not set the horsey set on a
new series of flaming insults. I want to say "Hey, I was headed down the
centerline at the dressage show, and God gave me a verse just before my final
halt..."Everything you do whether in word or in deed, do it all in the name of
the Lord Jesus..". It is an awesome fact of my life and it is DIRECTLY
related to my equestrian activities. I want to talk about it. Can't I just
have my own little thread? <g>
>There is no such thing as Christian physics or chemistry or biology or
>aerodynamics. Likewise, there is no such thing as "Christian equitation."
I am a christian and I equitate.
>...at the Council of Trent when they
>slammed the doors to keep out "corrupting" influences. Withdrawing from the
>world
>did not prevent those corrupting influences from becoming manifest. It
>simply
>prevented an early identification and correction. Your desire for a
>Christian equestrian forum repeats that mistake.
It is not the same thing. I am not interested in teaching doctrine. And the
more the merrier. I even enjoy outsiders throwing in their 2 cents worth, I
just don't want to come in where the masses vehemently reject the "discussion",
and beg you to leave.
>By the way, there are a couple of Christian horse groups.
There is the "Cowboys for Christ" in my area. But I ain't exactly a cowboy.
They do alot of great things and I would join their trail rides if it were more
feasable (sp?) for me.
>One is populated, I understand, by a large number of professional TWH
>trainers (who, as a group, loudly tout their Christianity while they engage
>in
>systematic horse torture; I guess they follow that brand of Christianity
>loved by
>Tomas de Torquemada).
This would make me ill. Your statement made me chuckle because you are funny,
but the truth of your statement is also very saddening. It is just like
christians who proclaim their love for God Almighty and then don their hooded
robes to exhibit hate in its purest form....SEE?!?! ANOTHER correlation
between the horse life and the christian life! The good, the bad and the ugly.
It is all there in both areas.
You are so profound and you don't even know it!...Jennifer
Johdug
>What exposure to that sort of thing I've had sends me screaming away
>in absolute horror. I kind of feel that a lot of these sorts of
>so-called Christian forums have a distressing tendency to become a
>"one upmanship witness game" rather than genuine sharing and support
>in faith, and people start arguing about who's the better Christian
>horseman and all.
I hate that, too.
>Plus, the kind of forum I would be more interested in from that point
>of view would not isolate horsemanship but would happen in something
>where one examines one's whole life--and, for me, plentiful
>opportunites for that sort of self-examination exist within my
>particular corner of faith.
I agree that this self-application is the best part of the faith. And I
participate in this sort of activity as well. I just find that the horse side
of my life is such a big part of who I am, that the two go together.
I'm much more comfortable within the
>formal structures of Catholicism than I am with the informal
>equivalents I've experienced in the Protestant church. Much of it may
>be due to the longer tradition of contemplation and meditation within
>Catholicism (if you're interested, e-mail me and I'll give you some
>references to get started).
I tried to e-mail you but my attempt failed, so I post publicly. I appreciate
the honesty of your post.
By the way, I was raised in the catholic church. I left when I was 19 and
joined a protestant church. But I don't think denomination is of much
importance. I think we all need to find our own relationship with God and
spend our entire life growing in that relationship.
And just to make sure this post stays withing the topics of rec. eq......my
denomination does not practice eating kimchee.......jennifer