Running away
Dana Compton
no clue how this can actually happen. Now I have only ridden a hundred horses
or so in my pitiful life. I've had maybe 10-15 or more of those try to take
off (I rescooled problem horses when I was younger) or "run away" with me. None
were able to. My immediate reaction is always to use all my body on the reins
or lead rope and ram the horses head back through it's ass (while screaming you
stupid f#$%^&* etc.) and sometimes applying the whip to the bloody beasts
head/neck (depending on the attitude of the horse of course). Only one kept
going and I rammed the bloody horse into a fence. One stupid fool actually made
me reach up and grap the halter and spin his head around to my knee. Not one
singe horse ever tried to run off with me twice, no actually my own monster
gelding pulled that stunt overy couple of years, just testing I guess. Most
stopped running off period.
How many regualrs here have actually had a horse they could not stop? Not just
let him go or made him go till he was sick of running but really couldn't stop.
Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let him do
that?
Dana- horsekeeper to;
Asthor - 8 year old ASB gelding
Juan's Magic- 17 year old TB gelding
Jim Casey
> Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let him do
> that?
I have had what the military call "unplanned encounters with terrain" when
a horse took the bit in its teeth and tried to set an equine speed record.
The explanation is simple: I screwed the pooch because I wasn't a good
enough rider for that horse, that day.
IOW, what you said.
People use a lot of euphemisms to avoid taking responsibility. There's the
ever-popular "the horse threw me." I hate the word "accident" when applied
to car crashes, unintended shootings, and the like.
- Jim
HHamp5246
>that?
I've had two horses "run away"
The first was my horse Bailey who was headed for the meat market because he
kept running away with people. He did it twice with me. Both times I was
eventually able to get him under control.... then I got off and had to change
my shorts. <g>
The second was hysterical.... I'm not sure if I'd call it a runaway but I was
riding a percheron in a snaffle bit, in a field.
We walked, we trotted, we cantered..... then I tried to get him to stop
cantering.... I couldn't. I turned him in a tiny circle.... he was cantering
slower than I walk but still wouldn't stop. It was as though he was stuck in
gear.
My friends were crying they were laughing so hard...
I wasn't afraid or anything, I just couldn't stop him.
I finally asked someone to come and grab him to stop him.
Someone walked over and stopped him.... it was embarrassing but really funny
too..... even to me.
My last runaway story happened in NYC back in the 50s. My best friend,
Fernanda Kellogg and I were riding in Central Park. We were about 10.
We put our horses in a canter and all of a sudden hers was going 100 mph, or so
it seemed. I did what Roy Rogers would do, I sped up hoping to grab her horse's
reins so I could stop them both. A mounted policeman took off after me and a
riding instructor and his student took off after him... wow, Five horses
running flat out in central Park, it was great fun!
I came around a corner and the race was over. Fernanda had been unceremoniously
dumped in what may have been the only mud puddle in the park.
The four of us came screeching to a stop. Her horse continued back to the
stable, crossing Central Park West (2 directions back then) by himself.
I got off and walked back with Fernanda.... I didn't mind walking because I
knew which one of us had the mud all over their jods. <evil grin>
Hunter
Hunter
http://members.aol.com/ILuvBrady/summer2004.htm
"Life's journey is not to arrive at the grave safely in a well-preserved body,
but rather to skid in sideways, totally worn out, shouting
"...holy shit...what a ride!"
Dana Compton
>>Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let him
>do
>>that?
>
>I've had two horses "run away"
>
>The first was my horse Bailey who was headed for the meat market because he
>kept running away with people. He did it twice with me. Both times I was
>eventually able to get him under control.... then I got off and had to change
>my shorts. <g>
>
>The second was hysterical.... I'm not sure if I'd call it a runaway but I was
>riding a percheron in a snaffle bit, in a field.
>
>We walked, we trotted, we cantered..... then I tried to get him to stop
>cantering.... I couldn't. I turned him in a tiny circle.... he was cantering
>slower than I walk but still wouldn't stop. It was as though he was stuck in
>gear.
>
>My friends were crying they were laughing so hard...
>
>I wasn't afraid or anything, I just couldn't stop him.
>
>I finally asked someone to come and grab him to stop him.
>
>Someone walked over and stopped him.... it was embarrassing but really funny
>too..... even to me.
That is too funny. I have never ridden a draft. I have a friend 5 or so hours
away I may have to go try it.
>
>My last runaway story happened in NYC back in the 50s. My best friend,
>Fernanda Kellogg and I were riding in Central Park. We were about 10.
>
>We put our horses in a canter and all of a sudden hers was going 100 mph, or
>so
>it seemed. I did what Roy Rogers would do, I sped up hoping to grab her
>horse's
>reins so I could stop them both. A mounted policeman took off after me and a
>riding instructor and his student took off after him... wow, Five horses
>running flat out in central Park, it was great fun!
>
>I came around a corner and the race was over. Fernanda had been
>unceremoniously
>dumped in what may have been the only mud puddle in the park.
>
>The four of us came screeching to a stop. Her horse continued back to the
>stable, crossing Central Park West (2 directions back then) by himself.
>
>I got off and walked back with Fernanda.... I didn't mind walking because I
>knew which one of us had the mud all over their jods. <evil grin>
>
LOL That's like the whole team of little boys chasing one baseball.
My first lesson I was 6. Very smartly dressed in jods and jod boots complete
with white button down shirt, tie and a black derby hat. They only told me one
thing. Don't let go of the reins. The horses were supposed to walk to the
riding ring in a line, well mine spotted a patch of grass. I slid right down
that horses neck face first into a mud puddle. But by God I still has ahold of
the reins. My Mother was NOT amused when she picked me up.
>Hunter
HHamp5246
Your mother may not have been amused, but I am...
Hunter>
>My first lesson I was 6. Very smartly dressed in jods and jod boots complete
>with white button down shirt, tie and a black derby hat. They only told me
onething. Don't let go of the reins. The horses were supposed to walk to the
riding ring in a line, well mine spotted a patch of grass. I slid right down
that horses neck face first into a mud puddle. But by God I still has ahold of
the reins. My Mother was NOT amused when she picked me up.>
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
Compton) wrote:
>I keep hearing of horses actually "running away" with people. Personally I have
>no clue how this can actually happen.
Sheer luck on your part.
> Now I have only ridden a hundred horses
>or so in my pitiful life. I've had maybe 10-15 or more of those try to take
>off (I rescooled problem horses when I was younger) or "run away" with me. None
>were able to. My immediate reaction is always to use all my body on the reins
>or lead rope and ram the horses head back through it's ass (while screaming you
>stupid f#$%^&* etc.) and sometimes applying the whip to the bloody beasts
>head/neck (depending on the attitude of the horse of course).
The big runaway I had was on hard clay. I sat down and asked for a
"whoa." She took off harder, and seemed panicked. After a second
"whoa using voice, seat, hand and leg didn't work, I hunkered down in
gallop position and looked for a better place to stop. After you've
had one go down with you after hauling on them like you describe, you
don't rely on the bridle to stop the critter, because it ain't fun
eating dirt when you dump the horse. BTDT, have the scar on my left
index finger and the arthritic finger joints to prove it.
What I did do was pick a nice sandy spot, and circle her until she got
her brains back, then sat down and stopped her.
I don't consider your particular strategy to be a particularly safe or
viable runaway strategy, and I know of at least one beast that would
have gotten you into a nasty position if you'd tried it.
snip
>Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let him do
>that?
Because something spooked them. It really doesn't sound to me like
you've had a full-blown, panicked, fear runaway. A pissed-off horse
who uses running as an evasion technique ain't the same thing. BTDT.
jrw
CM 2
Not just let him go or made him go till he was sick of running but
really couldn't stop."
Don't know, but I ain't one of 'em.
"Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let
him do that?"
Yep, me too.
Candy
HHamp5246
>him do that?"
>
>Yep, me too.
>
>Candy
>
This amazes me.... horses are large powerful animals. They are all capable of
running away with us if they want to......
Sometimes something trips their trigger, usually fear based, and nothing the
rider does will stop them until they are ready to stop. We aren't stronger than
they are.
What's the mystery?
Hunter
Dana Compton
>This amazes me.... horses are large powerful animals. They are all capable
>of
>running away with us if they want to......
>
>Sometimes something trips their trigger, usually fear based, and nothing the
>rider does will stop them until they are ready to stop. We aren't stronger
>than
>they are.
>
>What's the mystery?
>
>Hunter
But my point is that if we attack the action hard and fast can we prevent it
every time. Maybe if I was dropped onto a horse already running hard and fast
and in fear I could not stop him but I don't understand the idea of not being
able to stop a horse that is taking off with me. That's why I was asking.
HHamp5246
>every time.
Apparently we can't always. The times I was run away with I was already in a
canter, a fast one with Bailey.... then he went over the line and was flat out
running......
Dana Compton
>I don't consider your particular strategy to be a particularly safe or
>viable runaway strategy, and I know of at least one beast that would
>have gotten you into a nasty position if you'd tried it.
But I use it before the horse is going very fast. I have always stopped a
bolting horse in the first 8-10 strides. I judge a runaway but a refusal to
submit and the attempt to take off.
>
>The big runaway I had was on hard clay.
So you were going flat out to begin with?
>
>Because something spooked them. It really doesn't sound to me like
>you've had a full-blown, panicked, fear runaway. A pissed-off horse
>who uses running as an evasion technique ain't the same thing. BTDT.
>
>jrw
That's what I was trying to figure out. I keep hearing the stories like the
dressage horse that took off.
CM 2
Hunter"
Training? Or lack of? Riding skills, or lack of? Not saying a horse
has ever not tried to, just saying (at least on my part) they didn't
succeed. Just responded to the point made in the OP.
Candy
Texas rider
> Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let him do
> that?
>
I've been run off with a few times, but mostly when I was learning to
ride.
Once I was riding this horse that was supposed to be terrible to ride
in an arena, but good on trails. It wasn't my horse. I think the woman
who owned the boarding stable was hoping to someday make something of
the horse, but at the time, the horse was worthless. I got on it in
the arena, and she was right, it tried to run away. Much like the
story of the draft that wouldn't stop cantering. I got it in a small
circle, but couldn't get it to stop. Somebody had to come hold onto it
to stop it so I could get off.
Another time, I got run away with on my own horse Aspen, and totallly
embarrassed my daughter, even though I didn't fall off. It was a weird
day. We were at the opening hunt of the season, but the master had
died, so it had been turned into a funeral. The members of the hunt
were all there with their horses, but so were a lot of guests who had
come for the funeral. The riders were informed to make a large half
circle around the area where the ceremony was to take place, and the
spectators were sitting in chairs close to the flowers and paintings
of the Master. This took quite awhile, and Aspen fell asleep. At the
end, the Jt. Master yelled "Tally Ho" and promptly took off at a dead
run. Unfortunately, she was on the far end of the circle. Aspen awoke
to all the other horses taking off, but she was on the far side and
was trying desperately to catch up. We went dashing down the hill and
everyone tried to squeeze through a small gate by the kennel. Aspen is
a very competitive model, and was only in a snaffle bit that day.
After we squeezed through the gate by the kennel she took off. We were
passing 17 hand horses at a standstill as she tried to motor her way
to the front. We were going up and down hills, but she wasn't slowing
down in the least. I was trying to do the pulley rein, and turn her
and screaming at her, but it didn't seem to matter, as she was hell
bent to get to the front. I did finally get her out of the pack and
slowed her down, but had to ride with a slow field the rest of the day
because she was so hyper. That was the last time I ever went to a hunt
in a snaffle. Usually hunts don't start out like that-- without a warm
up, but when the Jt. Master took off like that, in an effort to show
off to the guests I suppose, it threw her for a loop. My daughter was
mortified. I was mad at Aspen, but unhurt.
I was also run away with once on my first horse when I had first
learned how to ride. We were cantering in open land and he just
split-- a full out run. Luckily I found a hill and rode him up until
he finally ran out of steam and could be turned. Before it happened, I
had no idea how fast a horse could really run.
Oh, and as a little kid, my mother used to drop me and friends off at
a local park with a riding stable. They put the kids on the horses and
sent them out on trail-- no guide, no helmet, etc. We usually walked
at first, but at about the 1/2 way point, the horses would take off at
a dead run and we had no clue how to ride, so got run away with every
time. I remember falling off when the horse would stop because I had
no idea what I was doing. I wasn't scared, though. That was the odd
thing about it. We enjoyed getting run off with.
cg
Macy
> How many regualrs here have actually had a horse they could not stop? Not just
> let him go or made him go till he was sick of running but really couldn't stop.
>
> Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let him do
> that?
>
>
My sister's Off-track TB had a split personality. During the Summer
and Winter she was sweetheart that wouldn't hurt a fly and it was at
that time I took her on a trail ride. Fall and Spring she was what
they call psycho and nothing a rider could do would stop her when she
decided to snap. She took off with me. I wasn't experienced enough to
know the ins and outs of stopping a freight train and bailed. She
tried to take off with my sister's trainer (upper level eventer
cowgirl) and the stupid beast bee bopped and mini bolted, half reared
and almost landed both of them in the dirt. Sheer will and stupidity
kept that woman from getting hurt. Tight circles with that horse would
have meant both parties ate dirt (my sister did). Most times it is
just inexperience but there are horses bent on destruction no matter
what.
Claudia Wheatley
> > just
> > let him go or made him go till he was sick of running but really couldn't
> > stop.
> >
> > Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let him
> > do
> > that?
When I was very new to riding I got run off with a couple of times; once
with a horse I was leasing and once with my own, first horse. It
happened because
1. I did not understand that cool, windy days can make even a lazy old
nag feel young and stupid again.
2. I did not recognize the signs of an impending bolt or know how to
abort one.
Being run off with got old fast, so I learned to (A) adjust my riding
plans to the weather, lunging and warming up so as to help my mount let
off steam in safe, sensible ways; (B) stay with a horse when it does get
strong, circling and eventually developing the courage to boot the
critter when it started to slow down so it learned that bolting only
leads to lots of hard work; and above all, (C) never to turn off my
brain and just enjoy the ride, but to keep checking my horse's attitude
and attention to me, looking for that twitch of the ears and shifting of
gears that says "I'm gonna run like hell now" and give the beast
something else to think about: a serpentine, a circle, a change in gait,
whatever it took to get him listening to me again.
It works pretty well.
C
--
"Saddam Hussein was a brutal dictator who deserves his own special
place in hell. But that was not, in itself, a reason to go to war.
The satisfaction we take in his downfall does not hide this fact:
we have traded a dictator for a chaos that has left America less
secure." (John Kerry, 9/20/04)
HHamp5246
cmsqu...@webtv.net (CM 2) writes:
>Training? Or lack of? Riding skills, or lack of? Not saying a horse
>has ever not tried to, just saying (at least on my part) they didn't
>succeed
Then they didn't try hard enough. My horse could have run away with you when I
first got him.... no matter how much you want to think you are too skilled a
rider to let it happen.
Una
>How many regualrs here have actually had a horse they could not stop? Not just
>let him go or made him go till he was sick of running but really couldn't stop.
There is a continuum here, not a yes/no can/cannot stop the horse.
I have had a horse spook and bolt, and come back to my hand in a
short distance. I have had a horse bolt for spite, and quit the
very moment I asked for more speed. I have had a horse lose its
head while galloping on a windy fresh spring day while riding in
a halter. I tried the one-rein stop and pulled the lead rope as
hard as I could without compromising the security of my seat, but
it was not enough to turn her head (she resisted), and I tried to
steer her by leaning to change our joint balance but decided
under the circumstances (near old barbed wire fence, among cholla
cacti, etc.) that was not safe. I also thought about bailing out
and decided that also was not safe. So I quit trying to force a
stop and just rode (ie, just sat there), asking every few strides
for a whoa, for another mile or so until she came to her senses
and back to my hand.
Did I learn a lesson and now avoid gallops on windy fresh days?
Nope. Did I learn never to ride in a halter? Nope. I pulled on
the halter *much* harder than I would have in a bit, and I doubt
a bit would have helped. More likely it would have damaged her
mouth. After that I decided to switch from her usual short shank
Pelham bit to an even milder so-called Kimberwick with no lever,
because no slots on the bit rings. In that bit I played her for
a season of low goal grass polo without problems. Instead, many
of the polo pros commented about how nicely she played for me in
that bit.
Una
HHamp5246
>a season of low goal grass polo without problems.
Speaking of polo and runaways.... I was being the dutiful polo wife at a match
in Cincinnati Ohio.... at the old field (now developed).
One guy, the owner of the farm/field, was on a horse in a ride off at a flat
out gallop.
All of a sudden the horse left the field and at top speed ran all the way down
to the motel at I-71.
This is about 2 miles away.
Frank got him stopped there and sheepishly got back into the game about 10
minutes after we saw him disappear.
Quapaw V
>just
>let him go or made him go till he was sick of running but really couldn't
>stop.
I have. Hasn't happened often, but once it got me hurt pretty bad when the
horse ran head-on into a fence. It was my first ride on a colt I was
trying--he was supposed to be green broke, but I couldn't figure out where the
whoa button was even at a walk, and before I could get off the ignorant SOB, he
spooked and ran. I had another one that I was putting basics on to sell. He
didn't like to be pressured or made to work and would respond by running off
(both times it happened, we were walking). The first time, I had that sucker's
nose on my knee trying to turn him into the fence and he not only kept going,
but jerked me so bad that I still have problems with my left shoulder 3 years
later. He stopped when he ran out into a 4' high cotton field full of mature
bolls. Bogged him down, I guess. The second time it happened, I was ready for
him and when he took off and refused to stop, I made him run across a 40 acre
field that had just been bedded. He never tried it again. hehe
The other 3 that have run off with me were barrel horses with mental problems
(came to me that way!). They eventually stopped, but it sure wasn't in a
timely fashion. :-P
It has been my experience that if a horse seriously does not want to stop, that
there is not much a rider can do. I don't think the majority of runaways are
that serious about it though, and will respond to circling or one rein stops or
fencing them. The last time I was run away with, it really wasn't the horse's
fault. I got kicked by another horse on a trail ride, which snapped my leg in
two. I screamed and scared my horse to death, so he ran. For a quarter of a
mile, my leg was flopping and I couldn't quit screaming long enough to do
anything productive, but I finally got myself focused and bumped one rein kind
of hard while sitting down for all I was worth and pushing his butt over with
my good leg. He shut right down. That horse normally had a very reliable stop
just from "whoa" and sitting down on him, but I got him so scared that I had to
resort to the "emergency brake" to get his attention.
I have seen people on runaways who literally jerked the horse off his feet. 2
of those incidents resulted in ambulance rides.
:-)
V
Rondo Farms, Home of Rambo the Wonder Horse
Quapaw V
>has ever not tried to, just saying (at least on my part) they didn't
>succeed.
Like somebody else said, the horse wasn't trying hard enough. I have seen
professional trainers that are used to dealing with hard running horses get run
off with. I wouldn't attribute that to a lack of riding skills, but to the
determination of the horse to run off, for whatever reason. All horses will
stop eventually, no matter what you do.
KONACOWBOY
I too have some tales about the subject. That is one of the reasons that at 65
years old I will not get on a green colt unless I have several weeks if not months
in the round pen. My horses will not run off no matter what, things like gunshots,
squealing pigs on the end of my rope, or even an aieu (wild bull busting out of the
forest). They may shy sometimes but not run off. Yet I can take almost any of them
and run barrels and poles. We do change the bits for different events. Yea for the
round pen and thousands of hours in the saddle. C.U.Online..bones
Quapaw V wrote:
--
Come See us if you can;
Bones & Sally Inkster, Kealakekua ,Hawaii
WWW.KONACOWBOY.COM
Lynn Tucker
blue with a young horse. He took off without any warning that I detected.
Went from a nice walk to full out gallop in warp speed. Every attempt to
stop or turn him resulted in the distinct feeling that he was going to throw
himself. Something I didn't think was a good idea. I decided to just go for
the ride even though it meant jumping a ditch onto a gravel road. Luckily no
traffic was coming. He went straight down the road and didn't stop until I
couldn't push him any further. Did I fear for my life? You bet. At least for
the first half of the ride.
Years ago at the world dressage championships, during the medal
presentation, the winning horse/rider combination was doing a victory lap
and the horse ran away. The last we saw of them , was the horse and rider
disappearing over the hill towards the barns. The rider did not return for
an encore. How embarrassing was that?
...Lynn
--
Lynn Tucker
Applications Technology
Information Systems and Technology
University of Waterloo
"Quapaw V" <qua...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040922130305...@mb-m15.aol.com...
Catja Pafort
> I have always stopped a bolting horse in the first 8-10 strides.
You might have stopped horses taking off, but a true bolt is different
in that the horse's brain is not taking in any signals whatsoever, and
whatever you do up there bypasses him completely.
I've only had one of those, but that was enough. It felt a bit like
sitting on the roof of a car somebody else is driving - in the passenger
seat, you could at least grab the steering wheel...
The only way to stop a true bolt is before it occurs.
Runaways I've had a few, mostly because I wasn't quick enough to react
and finding myself some way down the track before I realised what was
happening. With fast horses, that is easier than you'd think...
Catja
and the Count
Dr Corinne B Leek
Compton) wrote:
>How many regualrs here have actually had a horse they could not stop? Not just
>let him go or made him go till he was sick of running but really couldn't stop.
>
>Every time I read "He ran away with me!" I want to ask why did you let him do
>that?
OK.
I'll bite.
1. When I was 13, umpty-ump years ago, I started lessons that summer.
In the Fall, the instructor took a mixed bunch of us out on a trail
ride, nothing new, I had done it several times before.
It was a lovely Fall day, colours, sun, crisp air. Nice. We were
having a lovely ride and at one point, the group (I was "in the pack")
started to canter. NBD. Or it shouldn't have been. There was a fork
in the road coming up leading to the shortcut back to the stable. The
horse decided that that was the route he wanted. I had no discernable
choice in the matter. The whole thing was a complete surprise to me.
I had no clue what to do except try to hang on and try to stop the
horse.
I wound up waking up on the side of the trail, looking up as the
others rode up with great concern. One went off to fetch the runaway
and bring him back from the fence gate. I rode back to the stable,
but my father set a land speed record to come fetch me to the doc when
we called to tell him I had taken a tumble and was nauseous and
vomiting.
Yep. Concussion. sigh. In the days pre-helmet harness.
2. Years later. Back in 76/77? I had taken riding back up again
after a long hiatus. I was with my instructor/friend at where she
kept her horse (not where I rode, long story involving her parents'
location).
She was going to enter her horse in a Show the next day and I was
going to gofer for her.
There was another horse there whose owner asked if I'd take his horse
into the same Show. I said OK, but I ride English, not Western. "No
problem." Yeah. Right.
So, Friday evening, we tack up our potential Show winners and head
across the street to a field so I can see if I actually wanted to do
this with this guy as I and my instructor had some misgivings. But
what the hey, right? Nothing ventured? Free ride?
(The street, BTW, was a connector from the Trans Canada Highway. We
were about 1-2 kms from the off ramp. 8-} )
Anyway. Thundercloud usually went in a bosal that looked like it was
making a serious dent in his nasal cartilage. =8-|
We put him in a snaffle.
He usually went out on trail rides and the owners thought it was great
fun to race back to the stable. Yep. Yahoos.
Can you see where this is going??
So.
There we were over in the field, and I was working on getting some
basic W/T before trying a canter. When he sped up in the trot, back
to walk. Circles, serpentines, the lot. "Calmly, boy, calmly."
Finally, it seemed like he was going to be OK, so my instructor
suggested a canter of a few strides, "just to see".
That was it, folks.
Back to the stable. High speed. Across a couple acres and that road.
I tried sitting and "whoa". I tried yelling "whoa". I tried
circling. I tried hauling on the reins. I tried everything I could
possibly come up wih and whatever my instructor could yell at me.
This thing was a granite piece of fast moving idiocy. I stuck on
across the road, but then voluntarily bailed out before the idjit
stormed into the stable itself with its low slung doorways and I get
scraped off.
No harm to me. Nor, dammit to the horse nor (even more dammit) to the
owner.
That horse was a disaster in the making, and we had some clue that
that might be the case. Yahoo training all the way. He was
thoroughly confused by me. I would not be surprised if he was
afraid/confused and wanted the security of his stall and it was "time
to quit, anyway".
To this day, I firmly believe that there was absolutely nought that I
could have done with that nutcase. I know what I wanted to do to the
owners.
Corinne, who only got scrapes from the gravel on # 2...
Mikey, TIBP, who likes high speed...
Carrrot Gin Fizz Still Crew, who think a damaged nasal cartilage is
"not nice"...
Mark VIVIVI, "Can I shoot now? Hunh? Hunh?"
--
*** Conserve Energy: Laughter is easier than Anger!
*** cl...@ns.sympatico.ca
CM 2
him.... "
Anything is possible.
"no matter how much you want to think you are too skilled a rider to let
it happen."
I didn't say that. I was simply referring to horses I have ridden over
the years and to date. When I was young and stupid (really young) it
was great fun to haul ass, wouldn't have even recognized it as a
runaway. :-)
Candy
Cindi
>
> It has been my experience that if a horse seriously does
> not want to stop, that there is not much a rider can do.
I agree. In fact, in almost all of our interactions with horses,
they (sometimes eventually) simply agree to go along with what we
want. We can't really muscle them into anything - barring things
like tying up a leg or snubbing them to something. But you know
what I mean. We can make certain things uncomfortable for them,
and they can realize that if the stopped doing certain things,
they would be more comfortable. But if one really wants to go,
he can go, and we can't do much about it. I too have seen horses
running hell bent for leather leading with a shoulder while the
nose is pulled to the rider's knee.
> For a quarter of a mile, my leg was flopping and I couldn't
> quit screaming long enough to do anything productive
*shudder* That reminds me of a local story about a roller coaster,
the kind where the seat hangs off the track and your lets just hang
free. Some kid had jumped the fence to retrieve his hat, and another
guy on the roller coaster hit him with his leg as he was flying
by, breaking his leg. Then he had to ride the rest of the 2 or so
minutes with a flopping broken leg. If I remember correctly it was
his femur that broke. Hopefully he was in shock and wasn't feeling
it during that time period. Doesn't sound like you had that benefit,
though... :-( owie.
cindi
www.allisonacres.com
HHamp5246
cmsqu...@webtv.net (CM 2) writes:
>I didn't say that. I was simply referring to horses I have ridden over
>the years and to date. When I was young and stupid (really young) it
>was great fun to haul ass, wouldn't have even recognized it as a
>runaway. :-)
When I was 16 I rode my neighbors horse quite often. A huge TB.
One day I got on a wide trail and decided to open him up and see what he could
do...... I figured I could stop him.
Ha! He was the fastest horse I had ever been on up until then, I mean we were
flying. I loved it.... but I don't think I could have stopped him.
I didn't try, until I saw a huge chain link fence across the trail.... I mean
it was about 10 feet tall. He somehow did stop and I somehow stayed on......
I never think of it as a runaway because I didn't try to stop him.... at 16 I
was invincible. <g>
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
Compton) wrote:
>>
>>I don't consider your particular strategy to be a particularly safe or
>>viable runaway strategy, and I know of at least one beast that would
>>have gotten you into a nasty position if you'd tried it.
>
>But I use it before the horse is going very fast. I have always stopped a
>bolting horse in the first 8-10 strides. I judge a runaway but a refusal to
>submit and the attempt to take off.
That's not the same thing as a panicked horse taking off on you, which
is what I consider a true runaway to be. A horse that uses getting
strong and bolting as a power struggle or an evasion has other issues,
and whacking on their head and yanking like you describe only adds
fuel to the fire. If the horse in question is already a puller (as
have been the horses I've ridden that are prone to bolt), then what is
needed is a revisitation of the concept of "whoa." A horse that pulls
and takes off on you isn't necessarily going to stop.
And I know of one beast (now dead of old age) where your strategy of
pulling and whacking would have gotten you into one hell of a fight
with a critter capable of some nice pro rodeo level bucking.
>
>>
>>The big runaway I had was on hard clay.
>So you were going flat out to begin with?
So you're the knowitall who thinks you can stop a horse in a panicked
run?
Clearly you've never been on a panicked horse. I can count the
panicked horse situation on the fingers of one hand and have fingers
left over. It ain't the same damn thing as a bolting evasion.
>
>>
>>Because something spooked them. It really doesn't sound to me like
>>you've had a full-blown, panicked, fear runaway. A pissed-off horse
>>who uses running as an evasion technique ain't the same thing. BTDT.
>>
>>jrw
>
>That's what I was trying to figure out. I keep hearing the stories like the
>dressage horse that took off.
Pain issue and someone using techniques like those you described.
jrw
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
Compton) wrote:
>>
>>This amazes me.... horses are large powerful animals. They are all capable
>>of
>>running away with us if they want to......
>>
>>Sometimes something trips their trigger, usually fear based, and nothing the
>>rider does will stop them until they are ready to stop. We aren't stronger
>>than
>>they are.
>>
>>What's the mystery?
>>
>>Hunter
>
>But my point is that if we attack the action hard and fast can we prevent it
>every time. Maybe if I was dropped onto a horse already running hard and fast
>and in fear I could not stop him but I don't understand the idea of not being
>able to stop a horse that is taking off with me. That's why I was asking.
Until you've ridden a horse taking off in fear you won't understand.
Catja's had it happen once. I've had it maybe twice. It is not the
same thing as a pissed horse using getting strong or running hard as
an evasion. You have no brain to connect with. The flight instinct
has been triggered, and the horse isn't taking any signals. In both
cases, the horse in question was flighty with potential holes in their
training.
jrw
Jennifer Meyer-Mahoney
"Dana Compton" <spellbo...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040922000514...@mb-m06.aol.com...
> >
> >I don't consider your particular strategy to be a particularly safe or
> >viable runaway strategy, and I know of at least one beast that would
> >have gotten you into a nasty position if you'd tried it.
>
> But I use it before the horse is going very fast. I have always stopped a
> bolting horse in the first 8-10 strides. I judge a runaway but a refusal
to
> submit and the attempt to take off.
>
In 8 to 10 strides a panicked race trained fit TB is already going full
speed with its head down and the bit in its teeth. Fresh off the track they
have little in the way of brakes, are extremely fit, love to run, and at 3
or 4 have little experience with the things a boarding stable or private
barn can throw at them. If you get one that is spooky you will get run off
with at least once in the retraining process.
Jennifer
Dana Compton
>>So you were going flat out to begin with?
>
>So you're the knowitall who thinks you can stop a horse in a panicked
>run?
No. My thought process was that perhaps the reason I have been able to stop the
horse(s) was because they didn't get going full blast. That's why I was asking;
the horse you couldn't stop was he already going full blast?
The consenses seems to be that if the horse is already moving at a good clip
there is more of an out of control problem.
>Clearly you've never been on a panicked horse. I can count the
>panicked horse situation on the fingers of one hand and have fingers
>left over. It ain't the same damn thing as a bolting evasion.
I started this thread because I was trying to get input on the running away and
bolting thing. I was thinking that perhaps I was wrong to be thinking my
original statement. "When someone says my horse ran away with me I always
think now why did you let him do that."
I was actually thinking that maybe I was just being an egotist and runaways do
happen to reasonably good riders.
Seems like there have been only few true runaways mentioned. Most of them have
not been on the poster's personal horse.
CM 2
Hunter"
Well hell, at that age, weren't we all!! LOL
Candy, not so invincible anymore
Mary H Healey
> No. My thought process was that perhaps the reason I have been able to stop the
> horse(s) was because they didn't get going full blast. That's why I was asking;
> the horse you couldn't stop was he already going full blast?
How long do you think it takes a horse to get rolling? I watched one
this weekend go from a relaxed flat-footed walk to warp speed in one
stride. Fortunately, she was just startled and not panicked, so the
rider was able to recapture her attention.
> The consenses seems to be that if the horse is already moving at a good clip
> there is more of an out of control problem.
I'd suggest that mere disobedience is a bigger problem with these
critters than actual brain-draining terror.
Or there are holes in the critter's training. This is also known
locally as the "don't take a ex-track horse over the paved road to meet
the nice piggies" clause. No panic there, just a careful consideration
of the eviltude of porkdom, a measured conclusion that horses are safest
at home, and a stately progression from zippy walk to bouncy trot to
flat gallop with a human who didn't think the idiot equine would turn in
the width of the gravel road or successfully navigate the 4' ditch with
a 4' fence chaser that lay on either side of the road.
>...I was thinking that perhaps I was wrong to be thinking my
> original statement. "When someone says my horse ran away with me I always
> think now why did you let him do that."
In many/most cases, you'd be right to ask that question.
> I was actually thinking that maybe I was just being an egotist and runaways do
> happen to reasonably good riders.
They do.
--
Mary H. and the Ames National Zoo:
Raise A Fund, ANZ Babylon Ranger, ANZ MarmaDUKE, and Rotund Rhia
law
>
> But my point is that if we attack the action hard and fast can we prevent it
> every time. Maybe if I was dropped onto a horse already running hard and fast
> and in fear I could not stop him but I don't understand the idea of not being
> able to stop a horse that is taking off with me. That's why I was asking.
If the action is attacked the first time it occurs, possibly even
probably. However, having "inherited" a horse to ride at a camp
situation (*I* was the counselor) that had been allowed to "not stop," a
first response was not possible.
The jughead wore a nasty bit, tight curb chain and dropped noseband ...
all geared to *forcing* him to stop. He didn't run away as such (no
"top speed"), he just didn't always stop when requested unless life was
made very unpleasant for him. And when you are leading a mess of camp
kids, this action couldn't be allowed (at least by me). I didn't have
years of training and probably a lot of just good dumb luck, but I put
him into a much lighter curb and went riding. Once into a canter, I
asked for a stop and he wouldn't. I let him go. Again, I asked for a
stop and again he wouldn't. We kept this up until *he* asked to stop
... and I wouldn't let him. The cycle kept up until *I* asked for the
stop and *he* stopped. He wasn't retrained properly as I appeared to be
the only one at that time who could get the stop. But, at least for
that summer, the counselor wasn't riding a "runaway."
--
LisaW
"A simple way to take measure of a country is to look at.....how many
want in.......and how many want to get out."
----- Prime Minister Tony Blair
HHamp5246
writes:
>I'd suggest that mere disobedience is a bigger problem with these
>critters than actual brain-draining terror.
I have never gotten my horse to tell me why he was a runaway, but I have a few
thoughts....
A little of his history.... he is a Go-Man-Go grandson, so he was bred to race.
He was six when I bought him, for $20.00 more than the meat man offered, and
he had already had five owners. I only know about the last two owners before
me.
Two owners earlier was a snotty little barrel racer, who flat told me she hated
the horse. She also ran him in a gag hackamore. A brutal bit in the hands of
someone who admits to hating the horse.
The next owner bought him because of his size because he wanted a jumper to win
at Congress.... Bailey isn't a jumper. He will jump on trails, but he's not
brave enough to be a show ring jumper. The jumping thing didn't work so the guy
tried him on the polo field. Nope, not a polo pony. What he did learn is just
how fast the horse is so he decided to put him in some kind of race. I'm not
sure what the details were but he told me "The horse was racing two OTT TBs and
some other horses and was in the lead for the first two turns but the second
turn had him running toward the trailer so when it came to the third turn the
horse didn't turn.... he ran to the trailer." (He had a rep for being the
fastest horse in Cincinnati).
The guy then told me he was furious and took the horse home and put him in his
stall. Then, he went in the house and drank all evening and went back out at
midnight and beat the crap out of the horse in his stall. He broke his wrist
beating the horse. He was still mad at the horse for "breaking my wrist."
I know this is true because for the first few months that I had him when
anyone, especially men, would come up to his stall he would plaster himself
against the back wall and shake. It was heartbreaking.
So, I bought the horse because I ccouldn't bear for him to go to the killers
and he is quite the looker (lotsa chrome-I'm shallow remember) <g> The horse
has the best ground manners I've ever seen, he's really very sweet.....and I
had never tried to ride him when I bought him.
So, I buy him, stick an english saddle and a snaffle bit on him... Ha! Big
mistake..... sitting forward with leg on him freaked him out, and the snaffle
was a joke. He didn't run away because I never let it get to that.... I got
back off. I've ridden long enough to know when something ain't right.
I then got a western saddle and a grazing (curb) bit... things were better. If
I sat back with no leg on him he was pretty good. He has a really big motor,
but stayed under control.... until I was having a canter with friends on a wide
trail..... all of a sudden he kicked it up a notch and we were flying
(remember, the fastest horse in Cincinnati)....holy cow... it took about a mile
to get him stopped. My friends got there a few minutes later <g>
"What the hell was that?" I asked..... they said the guy I bought him from
always raced him against all comers at that spot, and was heavy with the
whip......
That's why I think it was fear based, I think he felt if he didn't run he would
be beaten..... six owners in six years does very little for a horse's
confidence...especially brutal owners. The horse's only history was at top
speed sports... barrel racing, polo and racing racing.....
He has an odd L shaped scar right in the middle of his face, between his eyes.
That's from that guy racing him and wanting to turn left at a fork in the trail
where the horse planned to turn right...... mixed signals.... the horse went
straight into a tree, face first. It knocked him out cold so they tell me. )c:
The second time he took off with me we were headed for home and something
spooked him in the woods...... he wasn't taking any stop cues except I was able
to turn him up a trail away from home so he stopped. He was always anxious to
get home, especially when I was riding alone. That's when I learned he was a
single footing QH. Cool.
Interestingly, someone suggested a mechanical hackamore, and I tried it. The
horse loved it. He settled right down and would meander along the trail.... all
the stress and angst he felt seemed to melt away when he no longer had a bit.
It was like riding in a halter with air brakes. He also grew to trust me
because I never laid a hand on him, never yelled at him etc... I have infinite
patience with animals, very little for humans. He got all nervous when anyone
else rode him, but was perfect for me.
He did put me in the hospital twice in the beginning, once when he literally
shied out from under me and stepped on me and broke a rib (that was almost
funny, I was still sitting in position and looked down and there was no horse)
and the second time when he bucked me off when he let out two big exhuberant
bucks when I was hotrodding him up a hill..... I broke my collarbone.
He's 27 years old now and waiting for me to get back to Ocala if the damn
hurricanes would ever stop..... his hocks are bad, I think from barrel racing
since he is a bit sickle hocked. He's one happy boy though, living on a
beautiful farm with all the grass he can eat with his pal Robbie. Twenty one
years later I can say I've never regretted buying him..... it was $500.00 well
spent. <g>
Mary H Healey
> In article <4152D419...@iastate.edu>, Mary H Healey <mhhe...@iastate.edu>
> writes:
>>I'd suggest that mere disobedience is a bigger problem with these
>>critters than actual brain-draining terror.
> "What the hell was that?" I asked..... they said the guy I bought him from
> always raced him against all comers at that spot, and was heavy with the
> whip......
>
> That's why I think it was fear based, I think he felt if he didn't run he would
> be beaten...
Plus, he was trained to take off at that point in the trail. Did he
truly not "hear" your cues, or did his previous training over-ride them?
There are a lot of situations where habit is stronger than attentiveness
to the aids, some benign and other far less so. A lesson horse that
picks up the correct lead no matter what the beginner flailing on its
back is doing, for instance, is a relatively harmless use of habit over
cue. Or the horse that offers to leg yield at a particular point in the
arena because that's what's been asked the last two or three times at
that point in the arena. Or the horse that stops and lines up in the
middle of the ring. I rode a horse that would park out at every halt
without being cued. I attribute habit over cues pretty much every time
the phrase "what you *meant* was..." could be used to describe the
horse's reaction to something.
For years and years I never rode Regis at anything faster than a walk if
we were headed home, even when we were two or three miles out. That was
in direct consequence of him making that fateful porcine decision, btw.
The first few times I asked him to go ahead and trot toward home, I
had to overcome strongly ingrained habit to get even a reluctant jog.
Not as scary as habitual taking off, but still somewhat annoying.
> The second time he took off with me we were headed for home and something
> spooked him in the woods...... he wasn't taking any stop cues except I was able
> to turn him up a trail away from home so he stopped.
To me, this "reads" like a genuine panic that eased enough by the time
he got turned away from home that he could start accepting input again.
HHamp5246
"hear" your cues, or did his previous training over-ride them?
>
I don't know, only he knows and he's not telling.....
<g>
(Apologies to Bush beans)
All I know for a fact is he was flat running away with me...... and it was
scary and exhilarating at the same time. I knew there was no road up ahead so I
wasn't terrified. Roads are the one thing that scare me when I'm on a horse.
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
Compton) wrote:
snip
>No. My thought process was that perhaps the reason I have been able to stop the
>horse(s) was because they didn't get going full blast. That's why I was asking;
> the horse you couldn't stop was he already going full blast?
Had nothing to do with it. She exploded out of a controlled canter
into panicked runaway. Usually it's easier to stop a horse, but when
they're already in a canter and something makes 'em jump....
Like I said, if you've not experienced a full blown panic runaway (and
it is not really that common, in my case it was clearly a situation
where I was already moving out and something startled her), you really
haven't gone through this experience. My other one (with a young
horse) was the same circumstance. Starting from a walk or trot, you
have more time to shut them down because of the gait difference. I
have had horses startle with me from a walk or trot and been able to
shut them down fast. It's different at a canter.
>
>The consenses seems to be that if the horse is already moving at a good clip
>there is more of an out of control problem.
>
>>Clearly you've never been on a panicked horse. I can count the
>>panicked horse situation on the fingers of one hand and have fingers
>>left over. It ain't the same damn thing as a bolting evasion.
>
>I started this thread because I was trying to get input on the running away and
>bolting thing. I was thinking that perhaps I was wrong to be thinking my
>original statement. "When someone says my horse ran away with me I always
>think now why did you let him do that."
>I was actually thinking that maybe I was just being an egotist and runaways do
>happen to reasonably good riders.
Your last sentence is more correct than anything else you've said,
really. If you read what others have written, runaways happen
occasionally to good riders under certain circumstances. Most of the
time, you can shut it down, or deal with it (especially in the case of
a spoiled horse that runs off rather than listen to a rider, with
running away as an evasion--but I don't really consider that running
away).
>Seems like there have been only few true runaways mentioned. Most of them have
>not been on the poster's personal horse.
Mainly because on a personal horse, it's more like my old mare the
first time we saw a combine, at dusk. She ran three steps backwards,
then stopped--issues of trust and leadership are involved.
jrw
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
wrote:
>In article <4152D419...@iastate.edu>, Mary H Healey <mhhe...@iastate.edu>
>writes:
>
>>I'd suggest that mere disobedience is a bigger problem with these
>>critters than actual brain-draining terror.
>
>I have never gotten my horse to tell me why he was a runaway, but I have a few
>thoughts....
>
>A little of his history.... he is a Go-Man-Go grandson, so he was bred to race.
Also a hot QH bloodline, in spades. I rode a Go-Man-Go granddaughter
for a while who'd been brain-fried. She never tried running away with
me, but she clearly had issues.
And they're fast critters.
> He was six when I bought him, for $20.00 more than the meat man offered, and
>he had already had five owners. I only know about the last two owners before
>me.
>
>Two owners earlier was a snotty little barrel racer, who flat told me she hated
>the horse. She also ran him in a gag hackamore. A brutal bit in the hands of
>someone who admits to hating the horse.
Yow.
snip
>I then got a western saddle and a grazing (curb) bit... things were better. If
>I sat back with no leg on him he was pretty good. He has a really big motor,
>but stayed under control.... until I was having a canter with friends on a wide
>trail..... all of a sudden he kicked it up a notch and we were flying
>(remember, the fastest horse in Cincinnati)....holy cow... it took about a mile
>to get him stopped. My friends got there a few minutes later <g>
Yep.
jrw
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
<mhhe...@iastate.edu> wrote:
>Dana Compton wrote:
>> No. My thought process was that perhaps the reason I have been able to stop the
>> horse(s) was because they didn't get going full blast. That's why I was asking;
>> the horse you couldn't stop was he already going full blast?
>
>How long do you think it takes a horse to get rolling? I watched one
>this weekend go from a relaxed flat-footed walk to warp speed in one
>stride. Fortunately, she was just startled and not panicked, so the
>rider was able to recapture her attention.
Doesn't take long for a TB or QH to get moving. Especially a QH.
jrw
HHamp5246
<j...@aracnet.com> writes:
>Doesn't take long for a TB or QH to get moving. Especially a QH.
>
>jrw
No kidding, if the horse is a barrel racer or has worked cattle you better hold
on when it starts to run.......
I've heard the QH is the fastest animal in the world for a 1/4 mile.
Madeline Rockwell
"HHamp5246" <hham...@aol.comnojunk> wrote in message
news:20040924000129...@mb-m14.aol.com...
>
> I've heard the QH is the fastest animal in the world for a 1/4 mile.
>
Yep. That's why the fastest ones are appendix QH's that are 15/16(or more)
TB!
Quick I'll buy. Fastest? Nope.
madeline
Una
>He's 27 years old now and waiting for me to get back to Ocala
He sounds like a sweetheart, Hunter.
I think we're all saying the same thing; a horse that really
bolts is one who has temporarily lost its mind. The forebrain
is disengaged and the hindbrain takes over. That's when we
get that horrible sense of no communication whatever with the
horse beneath us.
Una
Dr Corinne B Leek
OK.
Over what distance does the cheetah rule as fastest land beast? I
can't remember.
They can't maintain for long, but I think *they* are actually the
fastest animals. As in, in a dead race with a horse, the horse (no
matter the breed) would be dead.
Corinne, who think cheetahs are gorgeous, behind a fence and well fed,
of course...
Mikey, TIBP, who *might* be able to give the cheetah a good race,
maybe...
Carrot Gin Fizz Still Crew, not willing to get near any cat that is
bigger than they can step on....
Mark VIVIVI, "Caaaaaandy!!! Can you get this missile loaded? Please?"
HHamp5246
>I think we're all saying the same thing; a horse that really
>bolts is one who has temporarily lost its mind. The forebrain
>is disengaged and the hindbrain takes over. That's when we
>get that horrible sense of no communication whatever with the
>horse beneath us.
Bingo.... that's how I felt..... he didn't even seem to know I was there.
HHamp5246
>fastest animals.
Cheetahs only have bursts of speed for short distances, like 100 yards..... a
horse is faster for 1/4 mile.
Joyce Reynolds-Ward
Yep.
jrw
Sheryl Reasonover
>>But my point is that if we attack the action hard and fast can we prevent it
>>every time.
>
>Apparently we can't always. The times I was run away with I was already in a
I'll never forget the time I was cantering along on Hopper down a beautiful,
relaxing trail, smoking a cigarette and suddenly, the afterburners were on. I
dropped the cigarette & hung on for a minute or two. The riders behind me
laughed really hard when they passed that burning cigarette. They were still
laughing when they caught up with me. I never will know why that silly horse
took off. It wasn't a spook, it wasn't a runaway, it was just one gone horse
for a minute. She didn't fight the cues, but if she had, she was stronger than
me & if she had decided to be out of control, I could not have controlled her.
They respond from training. Bozo will stop when he is in a complete panic.
Just because that is what he is trained to do. If he decided not to, there
really wouldn't be anything I could do. You will never be stronger than the
horse, only hopefully smarter.
CM 2
SHHHHHHHH!!!!! Keep it down already, you know "SHE" is listening.
<sigh> Patience boy, patience.
Candy
Dr Corinne B Leek
Patience, schmatience.
I wanna **SHOOT**!!
NOW!!!
Sincerely yours,
Mark VIVIVI
CM 2
Mark VIVIVI"
Awwwwww, I wuvs you too Markie.
Candy