Injury at P. Parelli Clinic
Gail Phillips
the Lady was injured. There were 3 staff members besides Pat who were there:
Linda, Pat's wife and a course instructor, and two of the office staff who
are also in the instructor program. From the information I got, I will try
to respond to the points made in the post from rec.eq.
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PNH is instituting new requirements for arena size - previously it had been
left up to the judgement of the clinic sponsors. In the future it will be
more strictly controlled.
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As Susan Morris said, the exercise was bareback mounting with help. The
helper in this case handed her horse to another student. The other student
did not watch the two horses and her horse attacked the one she was holding
for the helper. The helper's horse leaped forward to get out of the way and
ended up on top of her owner. The lady broke her nose, but her attitude was
disappointment at not being able to ride, rather than anger over lack of
safety. She complained of neck pain, so it was prudent to leave her where
she was until the Paramedics arrived. Someone was with her the entire time.
The paramedics got lost twice before showing up, thus the long delay.
-----------------
The injured lady was questioned as to where she was, what was the day & date,
etc. - and that was when Pat announced "she'll live". As I said before,
Pat would say something like this to ease the tension, not to be callous.
The woman was monitored where she lay until the paramedics arrived.
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I am not sure who the "gate attendant" that was allegedly so rude, but it was
not one of the PNH staff. I do not know that there even was a "gate
attendant", since the arena was open on one side.
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Pat's primary focus in his program is Safety. If the person said that Pat
had some good things to say but his safety aspect was real poor, then they
really missed the point.
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Clinics are limited to 15 riders for Course Instructors, 30 for Pat himself.
No one from PNH has ever indicated that 50 riders would be accepted.
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I have traveled half way across the continent with Pat Parelli, and I have
watched clinic after clinic. Pat continually talks the talk and walks the
walk about safety, and has an excellent and inspiring rapore with his
students. Rudeness has no place in the PNH program, and whoever made rude
comments was not authorized to represent PNH in any way.
David Lichman
Martha Cather
>>-------------------
>>
>-
>Does Pat wear a helmet (to set a good "safety example")
>
>Does he require all participants to wear a helmet? Does he expect
>them to sign a waiver?
>
>Karen
Oh No! It's time for the monthly installment of HELMET WARS ;-)!
Martha in NM, who still needs to buy a new helmet after leaving hers
on the fender of the trailer.
email: mar...@baervan.nmt.edu
Sullys Maze
------
Not my intent at all! I only raised the question after someone
claimed that Pat was "safety" conscious. From what I have seen,
none of these Western trendy guru's (Parelli and Shrake) require
helmets, though they are quick to make participants sign a waiver
of liability.
At one Shrake clinic in our area, a kid had brought a problem
horse-it had a rearing problem. Shrake had the rider put the
horse in situation where it WOULD rear, and the kid never had
a helmet on at any time.
Well, maybe this WILL state the helmet war after all! I guess I
have a few more days until "nice week." Anyway, many novice
riders attend these clinics, some adult first time riders.Some
folks bring problem horses for a fix. They will LEARN how to
safely deal with horses by the example these trainers set.
Since 4H now requires helmets (they were concerned abo the
liability issue if kids under their program were not observing
common-sense safety precautions), I am surprised that so many
other clinicians and organizations are not doing this also.
It is a sensitive subject.
I have to state, that while I personally believe, now, in wearing
a helmet every time I ride, I also believe any adult have the
freedom to make their own choices, unless they are under the
instruction of someone else..
I think children (especially kids under programs such as Pony
Club, 4 H, and especially drill teams and gymkhanas) should
be forced to ride with helmets-or they don't ride!
I think any orgainzation, or indivudual offering any instruction
or program with horses would want to cover their ass and insist
on common-sense safety proceedures.
Karen
Henry Bailey
There are 2 points that reflect on 'how safe is the clinic'.
1- I understand the 'auditors' were seated in the arena - with nothing
between them and the horses..You put a crowd of folks together - let one
horse get crazy close to that group and how effectively can this group
get out of the way??
2- a bunch of folks mounting bareback sounds great. But how many horses
in what size arena..Is the space to crowded where there is not ample
space between horses?? Or does he cram in as many as want to pay?? The
thing that originally turned me away from bringing my horse to this
clinic was the 'allowable number of horses in a small ring'. How much
personal attention can you get with you and 29 other horses..??
It sounded like the almighty dollar was the factor in the number of horses.
If any of this feedback gets to Pat, he may consider who is representing
him locally...The 2 folks I talked to in the Alb area about this
clinic(when I was trying to see if I wantd to sign up), gave me
conflicting statements about what was going on, never returned my phone
calls (I called until I found them), and when it was rescheduled (due to
the virus quarantine) never called me to tell me about the new date.
The pre-clinic representatives I met gave me a real impression of chaos
and poor business conditions. These facts don't actually deal with clinic
safety, but they end up reflecting on the clinic.
I know we don't want to deal in rumors and second hand accounts, but that
seems to be the only info available on what these clinics do. My limited
circle of horse folks never went to his clinics, so I had to ask on the net.
One thing - if several folks say that their impression is that 'Mr X. is
unsafe', even if it is second hand - they got that inpression somehow...
Mary Lark
and 200+ messages per day, but if you pay close enough attention
you'll find 1 Parelli participant response per approx. 10 Parelli
stories heard 2nd or 3rd hand.
Almost all of the 2nd or 3rd hand story tellers are negative.
However, I've noticed that the actual participants responses are quite
the opposite.
If you *really* want the inside story on Parelli, subscribe to
HORSEMAN alias. Most of these people have all experienced Parelli
clinics first-hand, and you'd be surprised at the difference in
attitudes from rec.eq'ers second hand posters.
--Mary
ml...@tfs.com
Concord, CA
BobKohlLA
>Pat had some good things to say but his safety aspect was real > poor,
then they really missed the point.
I'm not going to flame this.. but after watching three of his clinics I
can honestly say that this is a joke.. The man does NOT pay close
enough attention to safety of the horses or riders.
BK
BobKohlLA
>unsafe', even if it is second hand - they got that inpression >somehow...
I've seen it first hand.. never would reccomend him.
BK
Lynn Scott
time bragging about how good a horseman he was than teaching any of us anything. I
am still disgusted. His methods and attitude are unacceptable. He had us hitting
our horses in the face with a rope (to back away from us). He had a lot of out of
out of control horses and people (28)in an average sized arena all reacting to new
cues at the same time. My old ranch horse who has seen a fair amount of action in
his day was confused and alarmed more often than confident and trusting. I don't
understand why Tom Dorrance, John Lyons, etc. allow him to associate his name with
them.
Jim or Laura Behning
I find that very interesting, as there is a local trainer of this "school" who
is being sued for equine abuse by the Dept. of Ag (and some friends of mine)
who advocates doing the very same thing. I have a copy of the video tape that
is being used as part of the evidence (as well as having seen numerous clinics
given by this person) and the treatment of the horses this way is sickening.
This trainer uses a coiled lariat to hit them in the face to get them
to "respect his space". The tape goes on for 45 minutes or so. This is NOT
training, in my book. And I agree, I don't think John Lyons would approve (as
I understand it, he is testifying against this trainer at the trial).
Laura Behning
mor...@mindspring.com
Sara Sunden
says...
>
His methods and attitude are unacceptable. He had us hitting
>our horses in the face with a rope (to back away from us).
Please understand, those of you who may take this as gospel, that this is out
of context. The principle is one of gradually increasing phases of pressure,
giving the horses plenty of time to think and respond. It is certainly
unfair and against the principles of natural horsemanship to go up and hit a
horse in the face as the first indication you want him to back up. The way
this particular exercise is done is to 1)indicate a backward movement with
your body language and face (this is ultimately what you want the horse to
respond to) 2) Point or shake a finger at the horse to back up 3)begin to
circle the rope above your head (helicoptor-like) in small circles 4)
gradually increase the size of the circles, maintaining your focus on getting
the horse to move backwards. Each increase in phase is given 3 seconds. If
the horse is trying to figure it out, you don't increase the phase. As soon
as you get even an inkling of backwards, STOP. Then you can start and ask
again.
Yes, if the horse doesn't move, the rope will eventually run into him.
However, you DON'T chase the horse backwards, hitting him with the rope. He
has plenty of warning that it is coming. It takes some practice and finesse
to learn when a horse is trying, and to reward the try.
I have been practicing Parelli's principles for a little over a year. Using
them, I have been able to form a partnership with my formerly'problem' horse
who had absolutely no respect for humans. Now she comes to me in the
pasture, we ride bareback with the halter and 1/4 in rope often, and are
competing in team penning, and gaming with a simple snaffle and NO TIE-DOWN.
Anyone's methods can be misinterpreted, misunderstood and misused. Some of
the advanced Parelli maneuvers and activities would not be safe to perform
without laying the groundwork with the basics. Each particular trainer will
'click' with some people and not with others. The main point is for more
people to treat their horses in a firm, fair and friendly manner that results
in partnership and optimum performance.
Keep an open mind
Sara Sunden
ssu...@ops.optht.uiowa.edu