Rain Update
Eileen Morgan
productive week, spending a lot of time in the ring with deliberate
monsters to work on. He says she crosses a tarp under her feet better
than she goes past one hanging over a jump and blowing in the breeze,
but he's circling her around jumps hung with crinkling blowing tarps and
he feels like she is making good progress since my ride last weekend.
So I asked him if he felt like she ought to stay a few more weeks and do
some more work with him, or if he felt like she was in a good place to
come home. I told him in all likelihood I'd lay her off for the winter
when she came back--I don't have lights for night riding, this is when
my semester starts to really take off and get busy, and I don't think I
can be on her often enough per week to make keeping her in work by
myself a smart idea. I also told him in spring I would likely look for
someone a little closer to me that I could split off riding with so I
had more time I was able to be on her, then transition to bringing her
home when I felt we were good to go on our own. With that as the over
all picture, given his work load, I wanted him to think on whether or
not he thought I should bring her home Sunday like we initially planned,
or if I should go ahead and let her stay so she has 60 days training
instead of 30.
He had a lesson to go off to, so we have plans to talk again before I
come down, but my initial impression is that he thinks it would be a
good investment in our long term partnership for him to have her til the
end of this month. He is a little less overbooked than he was last week
because he's had two horses he sent on home, so even though we are
overstaying our initial plan, he has room for her more comfortably now.
Hear that sound? That smashing sound? That would be the sound of my poor
Piggy Bank . . .
You know, most of the time I have been on her these weekend visits, I've
had a really fun time. Sliding down the steep slope into the creek,
belly deep in the pond, cantering up the hill and around the big rolling
pasture on trail, working through schooling figures and going on a nice
loose rein in the ring at canter--it's been a good feeling. It's been
enjoyable. A small part of the time I've been up there we boinged from
fun to 'out of Eileen's comfort zone'. What I want to do for both of us
is set things up so that that feeling 'this is enjoyable' remains the
bulk of our experience together. I'd rather spend preventative training
dollars than spend them in rehabbing us both after we've scared each
other, ya know? And that bit where I am out of my comfort zone on her,
that could escalate without the right series of outcomes. I'd like to
see it shrink down, personally, without ever being an issue that dings
my overall comfort when swinging a leg over her back. Currently, even
though she's been a challenge she has not really scared me. Once I get a
certain amount of intimidated, it's really hard for me to bounce back,
so I am very motivated to keep our experiences together in the
'challenging sometimes, mostly fun, never terrifying' category. Like her
mama, or even Belles (who is just a steadier personality in general--but
she has bucked my butt right off before, LOL).
So that's where we are, sports fans.
Eileen Morgan
The Mare's Nest
http://www.themaresnest.com
Emily Brooks
"Eileen Morgan" <eg...@ptd.net> wrote in message
news:UdqdnYWaCO6CCHLV...@ptd.net...
> Once I get a certain amount of intimidated, it's really hard for me to
> bounce back, so I am very motivated to keep our experiences together in
> the 'challenging sometimes, mostly fun, never terrifying' category.
> So that's where we are, sports fans.
>
> Eileen Morgan
>
I am so there, Eileen. I'm not nearly so brave or skilled as you. I need
that fun! fun! fun! part big time, thinly interspersed with challenging.
Emily
Splash
Going out on a limb here (please understand I intitially thought it
was great to keep Rain with the cowboy and to an extent I still do)
but tarps are tarps are tarps. I have Sox walking over them, under
them and through the darned things but nothing prepared us for the
horse-eating baby stroller we came across last month.
I had to ask a quite cooperative momma if she could stop pushing the
darned thing so I could walk Sox past it (on the VERY far side of the
road well out out baby in stroller danger zone). Who knew baby
strollers could be so menacing?
Some horses are always gonna be on alert for "horse-eating" dangers.
At some point, and I'm not suggesting you guys are anywhere near there
yet, a rider and horse have to establish that when the unexpected,
creepy things come along he MUST check in with his rider to decide how
to cope.
That's something I wonder if you and Rain are going to have to
establish for yourselves?
I know squat. I am a neophyte among experts but if perchance Rain is
as highly "alert (shall we say?) as say, Sox, doesn't there always
remain the possibility something could set them off?
In our instance Sox and I have established he no longer tele-
transports ten feet to the side when he is freaked. This is a GOOD
THING (I'm no longer left sitting on air when he fly's sideways).
Admittedly we are working on the "I can do a perfect 180 if the need
presents itself". BUT we have reached the "when MOM speaks sternly to
me I MUST move forward" stage, Whew!
Once the "bucking to escape" has been nipped in the bud, you might
still be left with a "highly alert by nature" horse.
Maybe there is an answer I am too inexperienced to know? I do accept,
to a point, I must play with the hand I am dealt. I have one of those
"highly alert" beast that is in so many other ways a GREAT horse! He
crossed the bridge this summer in front of 19 horses, at least 5 of
who had balked SERIOUSLY before him.
I fully expect him NOT to freak at the next stroller but who knows?
Next time it might be a seemingly innocent umbrella?
I do know he won't fly sideways and we are working on the "stand and
face it quivering" deal.
I just feel for the finances of trying to despook an "alert by its
very nature" horse.
Yes, bucking MUST be dealt with quickly, effectively and preferably by
someone else but you can't really change the nature of the beast, can
you?
Rambling thoughts courtesy of
Splash
Jill
> So, I talked to Tony today about how Rain was doing. They are having a
> productive week, spending a lot of time in the ring with deliberate
> monsters to work on. He says she crosses a tarp under her feet better
> than she goes past one hanging over a jump and blowing in the breeze,
> but he's circling her around jumps hung with crinkling blowing tarps
> and he feels like she is making good progress since my ride last
> weekend.
Lots of boundary testing going on, then?
And lots for you to do on the ground again in the winter, adding varying
mega monsters all around the new jumps and fields to work around.
;)
Its been great and wise to have used the experienced help for these critical
stages with a mare like Rain. There is plenty of time to reconnect with her
youself, on the ground where you can watch reactions, and get more of who
she is NOW back into YOUR comfort bank.
Reading your tales of Rain growing up reminds me a bit of the parents of 3
perfect kids and the 4th being a real horror, almost that the parents had
got used to being able to raise good kids, so were not so strict with
themselves, or the kid, for the last one, and did not spot that he was
different and probably needed folks to be less relaxed about his raising.
Same with dogs, experienced owners on their nthdy puppy wondering why they
have the dog from hell. <g>
You brought up a well mannered child on the surface, but she has some
attitude in the depths :)
I was lucky with the babes I have worked with, that they were not as sharp
as Rain, but have met a few, and they certainly make you keep your wits
about you.
Complacency is not going to be on the agenda.
But then they are the ones that can turn out to be stars, it gives them a
real edge in working.
--
regards
Jill Bowis
Domestic Poultry and Waterfowl Solutions
Herbaceous; Herb and Alpine Nursery
Seasonal Farm Food
http://www.kintaline.co.uk
eg...@enter.net
> Going out on a limb here (please understand I intitially thought it
> was great to keep Rain with the cowboy and to an extent I still do)
> but tarps are tarps are tarps. I have Sox walking over them, under
> them and through the darned things but nothing prepared us for the
> horse-eating baby stroller we came across last month.
Rain is reactive to them, so they are still a good 'how to deal with
yourself spooking' tool. It isn't like anyone thinks this is the only
thing that will ever bother her--we just know it does and can use them
to set her up to learn how to control herself and follow the lead of
her rider better. She isn't reactive to cars, people driving around
tractors, the zebra, people pushing around wheelbarrows. So we want
her to spook and deal with it, we use the tarps. She decides they are
No Big Deal, we'll use something else to sack her out.
> At some point, and I'm not suggesting you guys are anywhere near there
> yet, a rider and horse have to establish that when the unexpected,
> creepy things come along he MUST check in with his rider to decide how
> to cope.
Yes, I agree, and this is exactly what Tony has been provoking with
her.
> That's something I wonder if you and Rain are going to have to
> establish for yourselves?
She needs to have it established with someone confident and able to
deal with her being both dead green and a reactive horse--right now,
that means someone who rides a lot more very green horses routinely
than I do. As she gets more saddle time, and I have more time working
with her, our skill sets will align better and better.
> I know squat. I am a neophyte among experts but if perchance Rain is as highly "alert (shall we say?) as say, Sox, >doesn't there always remain the possibility something could set them off?
Well, of course. Maybe I don't get your point? We are teaching her how
to deal with spooking and being redirected by her rider, and how to
trust her rider than when we say 'work past this as I tell you and all
will be fine' that that is what will actually happen. I don't think we
are eliminating her being reactive, we are muting the reaction level
she exhibits AND giving her some things that she can associate with 'I
spoke, my rider has me do X, and we all live to spook another day.'
> Once the "bucking to escape" has been nipped in the bud, you might
> still be left with a "highly alert by nature" horse.
Well, yes, I expect that. Her mother is a live wire, too. And a lot of
fun. :-)
> I just feel for the finances of trying to despook an "alert by its
> very nature" horse.
We need to get it down to "and Eileen can reliably cope with the level
of angst the mare will display during the spook" and that just takes
time and having her spook and be worked through it.
> Yes, bucking MUST be dealt with quickly, effectively and preferably by
> someone else but you can't really change the nature of the beast, can you?
It is all about degree.
eg...@enter.net
> Reading your tales of Rain growing up reminds me a bit of the parents of 3
> perfect kids and the 4th being a real horror, almost that the parents had
> got used to being able to raise good kids, so were not so strict with
> themselves, or the kid, for the last one, and did not spot that he was
> different and probably needed folks to be less relaxed about his raising.
> Same with dogs, experienced owners on their nthdy puppy wondering why they
> have the dog from hell. <g>
> You brought up a well mannered child on the surface, but she has some
> attitude in the depths :)
Respectfully disagree. :-) My first colt was hell on wheels. He used
to bite and kick his mother and she never disciplined him for this. He
was very stubborn, very make me, and over 17 hands tall. He's the one
who went over backwards on me when he was three and I was putting his
first 6 weeks of under saddle work on him. My dressage coach and I
split off working him as a four year old and things got very good
indeed with him, but you could never trust that fellow to have your
back if the chips were down. By the time I sold him a strong minded
novice rider could handle him, but he would take advantage of anyone
timid. I have always said Belles is the only easy horse I've ever
owned, LOL, and her whole easiness was pure dumb luck. Rain is #3.
> I was lucky with the babes I have worked with, that they were not as sharp
> as Rain, but have met a few, and they certainly make you keep your wits
> about you.
Well, with Rain, I have always expected her to stay in her own space,
tie, stand up nicely for grooming, lead properly, load, give up her
feet, be mannerly for the farrier and the vet, allow me to handle all
her bits, and as a yearling and two year old I put some various tack
on her, sat on her a few times without incident when she was two.
When she was three she got this whole 'woo hoo I have hormones thing'
going and was a right little tarter--that all evaporated in June after
maybe four months of really naughty teenager behavior. Things that had
never been an issue suddenly were a big deal (being polite for the
farrier, for instance, or staying out of my space). What she has now
is Ms Reactive Pants going on, although she's apparently been going
better and better all week and Tony is really happy with her as of his
call tonight.
Ok, bed. Late.
cindi
> but you can't really change the nature of the beast, can
> you?
>
Well... I think you can. My lesson horses never spook anymore when
ridden, at all, ever - maybe each one will startle/do a tiny tiny
"spook in place" once in a blue moon, like maybe once every 6 months.
They didn't come here that way. One in particular was owned by a very
successful working cowhorse gal who was showing locally, who'd been
riding all her life, and who was prepping a horse for the snaffle bit
futurity, and when I bought a gelding from her she told me "he is
spooky, he is probably the most spooky horse I've ever worked with,
and there is nothing you can do to change that." He was the most
spooky I had worked also, for the first month or so. Then for about 8
months he would look from time to time and maybe spooked once or twice
in that period. In the last 2 years or so he has not spooked at all.
Not at all. That is Casper, and he is an excellent beginner lesson
horse now. More recently Tarzan stopped spooking - he would do a huge
thoroughbred teleport over the slightest things, but he hasn't spooked
at all in about 8 months now. Even Jewel - she used to spook like
crazy but she doesn't spook now although she will still worry and will
sometimes deviate her path a tiny bit or at least try to change her
bend... But no more spooking.
So, I think your basic question is can you change a horse's basic
temperament with respect to how likely he is to spook, and I think the
answer is yes. I think horses do have differences in how alert they
are and in how likely they are to notice things in their environment,
and I don't think you can change that type of characteristic although
you can certainly train them to spend more time focused on you than
focused on things in their environment. But regardless of temperament
you can train them not to spook. I don't think at any moment you
should say well, that's just the way this horse is... about spooking.
You can say that about environmental alertness, sure, but then to deal
with that sort of characteristic, you train for increased attention
and decreased spooking, and really, who cares how alert they are to
their environment if they have been trained not to spook and to pay
attention to you when asked?
cindi
Jill
> On Oct 11, 4:11 am, " Jill" <n...@NOSPAMkintaline.co.uk> wrote:
>> Reading your tales of Rain growing up reminds me a bit of the
>> parents of 3 perfect kids and the 4th being a real horror, almost
>> that the parents had got used to being able to raise good kids, so
>> were not so strict with themselves, or the kid, for the last one,
>> and did not spot that he was different and probably needed folks to
>> be less relaxed about his raising. Same with dogs, experienced
>> owners on their nthdy puppy wondering why they have the dog from
>> hell. <g>
>> You brought up a well mannered child on the surface, but she has some
>> attitude in the depths :)
>
> Respectfully disagree. :-) My first colt was hell on wheels. He used
> to bite and kick his mother and she never disciplined him for this. He
> was very stubborn, very make me, and over 17 hands tall. He's the one
> who went over backwards on me when he was three and I was putting his
> first 6 weeks of under saddle work on him. My dressage coach and I
> split off working him as a four year old and things got very good
> indeed with him, but you could never trust that fellow to have your
> back if the chips were down. By the time I sold him a strong minded
> novice rider could handle him, but he would take advantage of anyone
> timid. I have always said Belles is the only easy horse I've ever
> owned, LOL, and her whole easiness was pure dumb luck. Rain is #3.
Ah, I had forgotten some of your tales of the first.
I think you have done a great job with Rain, she clearly has so many of the
right skills at this time of life, all down to your work and expectations
and decisions.
Next year is going to be fun to hear about.
;)
Eileen Morgan
> Ah, I had forgotten some of your tales of the first.
> I think you have done a great job with Rain, she clearly has so many of
> the right skills at this time of life, all down to your work and
> expectations and decisions.
> Next year is going to be fun to hear about.
> ;)
Bard. He was and probably still is the PERFECT horse for a big man who
wants to go trail riding--he'll put up with shall we say a lack of
subtle aids just fine as long as he is out enjoying himself and not
feeling like he is doing something difficult. But get someone on there
who asks instead of tells and he won't do ANYTHING for them. I leased
him to a lady and he figured out that if he bucked or bucked her off she
would not ride him in the ring, just out on the trails. So he bucked
every time they went in the ring and he got only trail riding. I took
him back from her and sent him to my coach to be a schoolie horse, and
one of the staff got on him. He planted and rooted at the halt in the
arena, and belted him, and that was the end of that. They had novice
kids on him in under a month's tune up, and he was a favorite with a lot
of them for basic lessons of walk, trot, canter, jump little jumps, go
XC, etc.
As nice as he was going by the time I sold him, I could never have
galloped down to a hard fence and been sure he was going to do his end,
ya know?
Eileen Morgan, off to see Rain
Splash
Apologizies Eileen, I don't know what I was thinking shooting off my
mouth like that?! Yikes!
OF COURSE tarps make sense if that's what she spooks at in order to
teach her to look to her rider.
Must have been having a senior's moment but more likely I was tired
and not thinking straight (Or it could have been the fight with the ex-
husband that put me in a strangely argumentative mood, sheesh?)
I know you are doing all the right things with Rain. Again,
apologies.
Splash
Eileen Morgan
> Apologizies Eileen, I don't know what I was thinking shooting off my
> mouth like that?! Yikes!
Heavens, I wasn't reading it as some sort of 'you dope' attack. No
offense taken. :-)
> OF COURSE tarps make sense if that's what she spooks at in order to
> teach her to look to her rider.
Well, there might be some folks who think if you sack with one thing you
are done (if that were the case Rain would have been finished spooking a
long time ago, LOL), but I'm not one of them.
> Must have been having a senior's moment but more likely I was tired
> and not thinking straight (Or it could have been the fight with the ex-
> husband that put me in a strangely argumentative mood, sheesh?)
No big deal. We all get sideways once in a while.
> I know you are doing all the right things with Rain. Again,
> apologies.
None needed, and no one is ever finished learning how to do stuff
better. At least I'm far from it!