Please provide anti-blanketing propaganda
Bill Kambic
<snipped for brevity>
> My horse is the ONLY horse in the barn that does not wear a blanket.
> The management is now insisting that my horse needs a blanket. As I
> have refused to provide one, they are now using a "left over" blanket
> someone else had, which is too small to boot, and constricting the
> movement around his neck.
>
> Though I've asked them repeatedly not to blanket him, they continue to
> do so. I can understand that they think they're doing the right thing
> for this horse, but I am equally convinced that he's going to do fine
> on his own, so long as I continue to elect not to clip him. Continually
> arguing over the matter has become tiresome.
End the argument with the following words, "If you put that blanket, or any
other, on my horse again without my express order I will sue you."
You should, now, have their attention.
Then give a copy of what you have copied from the following site:
http://www.equinestudies.org/_disc/0000015b.htm
This should do the job.
Or, in the alternative, find a new barn (not always an easy task, I know).
Thing is, if these "yahoos" are doing this in contravention of your wishes,
what else are they doing?
Good luck. I fear that you and your horse will need it.
Bill Kambic, Bright Star Farm, Kingston, TN
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/1816
Mangalarga Marchador: Style, Stamina, Symmetry, Smoothness
"The poor you will always have with you." J. Christ. (I guess he meant
the poor in IQ as well as the poor in dollars.)
Kris Carroll
> My horse is the ONLY horse in the barn that does not wear a blanket.
> The management is now insisting that my horse needs a blanket. As I
> have refused to provide one, they are now using a "left over" blanket
> someone else had, which is too small to boot, and constricting the
> movement around his neck.
The wicked child perched on my shoulder says cut their blanket into small
pieces. End of problem.
K
d_pe...@my-deja.com
horse. He's not clipped, stays inside a barn at night, and here in my
Northern California burg a cold spell means it may hit the low 30's at
night.
My horse is the ONLY horse in the barn that does not wear a blanket.
The management is now insisting that my horse needs a blanket. As I
have refused to provide one, they are now using a "left over" blanket
someone else had, which is too small to boot, and constricting the
movement around his neck.
Though I've asked them repeatedly not to blanket him, they continue to
do so. I can understand that they think they're doing the right thing
for this horse, but I am equally convinced that he's going to do fine
on his own, so long as I continue to elect not to clip him. Continually
arguing over the matter has become tiresome.
Anyone have good pointers to scientific, medical, or otherwise
logically interpretable data that says horses do fine without blankets
under these conditions?
Thx,
-D
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Corey Kaye
>My horse is the ONLY horse in the barn that does not wear a blanket.
>The management is now insisting that my horse needs a blanket. As I
>have refused to provide one, they are now using a "left over" blanket
>someone else had, which is too small to boot, and constricting the
>movement around his neck.
<snips>
Personally, this would be reason enough for me to find a new barn. Management
not following express instructions regarding
*your* horse? And then putting him in a blanket that *doesn't even fit*? Wow.
If you want to stay, have you considered buying him a *light* blanket, just to
keep the peace? Something like a weatherbeeta extreme turnout sheet--light,
with no fiberfill.
From what you've said, it sounds like blanketing is almost a "barn rule" where
you are now. Might be a concession you have to make if you want to stay there.
Corey
-----
http://www.geocities.com/coreykaye225
Spirit's Journal: http://www.geocities.com/coreykaye225/spiritjournal14.html
Last Updated 11-29-00
haf_...@my-deja.com
How about a "note" from your vet? I am afraid I would say "LEAVE THE
DAMN BLANKET OFF MY HORSE!!!!" " UNDERSTAND??" But sometimes I am not
as tactful as I should be. But really it's your horse! You should
control what happens to him.
Dana (who dislikes paying high prices for blankets)& Juan's Magic (who
eats them off anyway, and has enough hair for 2 horses)
John Hasler
> I've mentioned on this bulletin board...
It isn't a bulletin board.
> Anyone have good pointers to scientific, medical, or otherwise logically
> interpretable data that says horses do fine without blankets under these
> conditions?
Have your vet write them a letter.
--
John Hasler
jo...@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Lorri
Newsgroup.
>
> My horse is the ONLY horse in the barn that does not wear a blanket.
> The management is now insisting that my horse needs a blanket.
Point out that no one goes out and blankets mustangs. Also inform that
that if you find that blanket on your horse one more time you will be
contacting your attorney.
Lorri
Schmdthaus
<<Point out that no one goes out and blankets mustangs. Also inform that
that if you find that blanket on your horse one more time you will be
contacting your attorney.>>
I think that's excellent advice. You can also tell your barn manager that our
horses, who stay outside as much as possible and when brought inside are
stalled in an uninsulated steel barn, do not get blanketed unless obviously
uncomfortably cold, and I've rarely seen any of them (even the two Arabs who do
not grow a very heavy winter coat, uncomfortable until the temperatures are
zero or below.
It's YOUR horse and blanketing therefore should be YOUR choice!
Laurie
EqWriter
(Schmdthaus) writes:
>Lorri gashires wrote:
>
><<Point out that no one goes out and blankets mustangs. Also inform that
>that if you find that blanket on your horse one more time you will be
>contacting your attorney.>>
>
>I think that's excellent advice.
Yes, but he could come back and say, "Ya, and no one worms the Mustangs, trims
their hooves, feeds them, vets them, etc." <EG>
Kathy (who has a Mustang and nope, she doesn't get a blanket. Of course, I live
in Florida -- the part that does actually get cold. It's been 35 out the past
few mornings.)
"When a man lies he murders some part of the world
These are the pale deaths which men miscall their lives
All this I cannot bear to witness any longer
Cannot the Kingdom of Salvation take me home"
Metallica -- To Live Is To Die
Don Bruder
schmd...@aol.com (Schmdthaus) wrote:
: It's YOUR horse and blanketing therefore should be YOUR choice!
You got some extra letters in there, Lorri...
The proper spelling is:
"It's YOUR horse and blanketing therefore is YOUR choice!"
Note the lack of the letters "should be" in my spelling.
To the original poster:
Make it known, in no uncertain terms, that you do not want your horse
blanketed. Period. No "but so and so says...", no "The advice I got
is...", none of that. No explanation is required of you. This is a
decision that's yours, and yours alone. Simple, straightforward, easily
understood: "It's my horse, I said DO NOT blanket him/her, end of
discussion!"
If that doesn't work, you need to get the hell out of the place you're
at and go someplace that respects your wishes.
<walking away shaking head at idiots who insist on blanketing a
perfectly healthy horse> If Ghod had meant for horses to be blanketed,
(s)he wouldn't have given 'em self-adjusting fur coats!!!
--
--
Don Bruder - Dak...@primenet.com
Horseman by day, 'net-freak by night. What a contrast, eh?
Teri Oberg
>> It's YOUR horse and blanketing
>> therefore should be YOUR choice!
>> Laurie
I absolutely agree - it's your horse! IMO if you threaten to sue, keep
your eyes open for another barn...
Teri
http://community.webtv.net/TeriOberg/MyGirls
Donna Pattee
Why worry about all that? Write a simple, concise letter stating that you
do not want your horse blanketed. Period. Then deliver copies of the
letter to the barn management and all their employees.
Putting a blanket that doesn't fit on a horse can be very dangerous. I'm
assuming you can't move your horse to a different barn, so you might
consider the promise that you **will** pursue legal recourse if your
horse is injured while wearing a blanket.
d_pe...@my-deja.com
the whole thing, given that it may be a while before I find another
facility at which to board, and I try not to burn too many bridges as I
go along.
It is apparent to me that their concern is for the well being of my
horse, just what I think is misguided concern, so I can't fault them
for their good intentions. I'm sure they think the same thing of
me... "misguided horse owner who thinks her horse can survive without a
blanket..."
So I'm looking for a new place to board, and until then, I'll probably
take up the suggestion and buy a very light blanket that actually fits
just to keep them from harassing him.
Ugh. This sucks. Thanks all for propping me up here. I was starting to
waver.
she...@my-deja.com
You might also want to add, when talking to these people, that horses
are well equiped to handle the cold and one way in which they do this is
by "fluffing" up their coats (done by expanding their follicals) thus
creating a "downing" effect or an air pocket which works remarkably
well to insulate them against the cold. By heaping a blanket on your
guy they are in effect hampering his natural ability to keep warm and
are doing him more harm than good. If you clip your horse, or have
blanketed your horse from the start of the cold season, you should
definitely continue to blanket as you have taken away his own natural
ability to cope. But if your horse was allowed to grow his own coat in
response to the climate naturally, then any interference at this point
could be potentially harmful. If it is too light a blanket, he'll get
cold (from smashing down his coat), if it is too heavy a coat, you run
the risk of him overheating. Neither is good. Make sure he has a good
quality, free choice hay at all times and if he shows signs of stress
due to the cold slip him an extra helping of sweet feed and throw in
some corn, or corn oil to get those "burners" going.
Sherdan http://www.geocities.com/sherdan_52213/jhorses.html
In article <90j6df$ahk$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
Grizz
blanketed my horses in 30 degree weather they would break into a sweat under
the rug. I live in northern Illinois where we sometimes get real winter
cold. My horses live outside most of the year with free access to the back
half of my barn for shelter. I have 23 horses and 6 blankets for the entire
herd. My horses grow hair like bears during the winter. If I were showing
my horses I would probably blanket them and keep them indoors most of the
time. The only time any of my animals wear blankets is when they are
visibly cold (shivering) or sick and being kept indoors because of their
illness. This seldom happens. Horses evolved to an outdoor existense not a
life of confinement in 12 x 12 foot boxes. The closer you keep things to
nature the fewer problems you will have with the animals. I have a friend
who is currently a hunt seat instructor at a large facility where they keep
100 head in close confinement in central Wisconsin most of the horses are
blanketed during the winter and the barn is shut tight. If one horse gets a
respiratory infection it spreads like a brushfire through the entire barn.
These horses are as pampered as they come and they seem to be sick most of
the time. My horses live outdoors year round and I very seldom have to have
a vet out, maybe twice a year for routine things and one emergency call.
The people at the large facility spend enough annually to buy that nice boat
and truck for thier vet. Hope this post helps convince your stable manager
that the blanket is'nt necessary. Sincerely: Deb Hilld_...@my-deja.com
wrote in message <90hedg$vgi$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>...
Ruth Baltopoulos
<d_pe...@my-deja.com> wrote:
[..........]
> It is apparent to me that their concern is for the well being of my horse,
just what I think is misguided concern, so I can't fault them for their good
intentions. I'm sure they think the same thing of me... "misguided horse
owner who thinks her horse can survive without a blanket...">
However :)
It really irks me that you are being bulldozed into doing something that you
don't agree with -- and on your dime!! I also have a serious problem with
folks that do things with my animals out of concern and against my wishes,
which -- in their minds -- tosses me into the Sea of the Misguided.
I hope that you try 'diplomatically' to speak with the powers that be at
this facility and explain what your wishes are very clearly -- even put it
in writing. It does not have to be defensive or confrontational, just a
'while I understand your thinking, my opinion differs and here is how it
will be' kinda thing. If you were doing something to endanger your horse or
others, that would be quite another story. This is simply a matter of
individual preference, and these people are being obnoxious by disrespecting
your wishes. I would also address their putting an ill-fitting blanket on
your horse -- which is infinitely more dangerous than going without ;)~
You are wise not to burn your bridges prior to making other arrangements,
but one would hope that if this is your only issue with this establishment
it could be resolved without you buying a piece of equipment that you don't
need or want. Our stable houses 50ish horses and there are ones that wear
blankets and ones that do not. Either way is fine with the owners -- they
like to keep their boarders happy :)
Ruth B
postmisstress
My two QH's are not blanketed and our barn is not heated - and temperatures
can get to minuc 25 Centigrade in Winter and these horses are Never cold -
they look like fluffy teddybears though. They are not worked very much
because of the snow, but I have a polar fleece cooler which helps dry them
off, in case they get sweated up careering around their Corral in the snow.
You don't say what you 'do' with your horse - of course if you are doing a
lot of fast work and the horse is getting sweated up it would be better to
clip the horse and blanket it, but for weekend trail riding etc I think they
are better off in their 'Birthday Suits' - don't give in to these
ignoramous!! - Sue them!!
Postmistress
Bill Kambic
> Thank you all for your suggestions. I'm trying to be diplomatic about
> the whole thing, given that it may be a while before I find another
> facility at which to board, and I try not to burn too many bridges as I
> go along.
Good plan!<g>
> It is apparent to me that their concern is for the well being of my
> horse, just what I think is misguided concern, so I can't fault them
> for their good intentions.
Maybe you should. A well motivated idiot is still an idiot. A person who
does for your horse because they think its right (in the face of your
express order to the contrary) is establishing a learning pattern. Nip
this thing in the bud, or next it will be dewormer selection and then
medication selection and then feed selection and then hay selection and
then tack selection and on and on and on!
> I'm sure they think the same thing of
> me... "misguided horse owner who thinks her horse can survive without a
> blanket..."
Frankly, the question is not "who is right?" but "who is in charge?" YOU
bear the legal and moral and ethical responsibility for your horse. Thus,
you get to decide what is done or not done.
> So I'm looking for a new place to board, and until then, I'll probably
> take up the suggestion and buy a very light blanket that actually fits
> just to keep them from harassing him.
Nope, wrong answer. If you do this you will have trained these people that
harassment works and they will move to Step Two in their program of
altering your behavior. Tell them to "sod off" and MEAN it. Don't accept
behavior from humans that you would not accept from your horse!<g>
> Ugh. This sucks. Thanks all for propping me up here. I was starting to
> waver.
Hey, no problem! You are hardly the first to have to put up with such
nonsense, and you will not be the last. Come back anytime you need a
"lift"!!!!!!!<g>
Soniaz123
>
>> Thank you all for your suggestions. I'm trying to be diplomatic about
>> the whole thing, given that it may be a while before I find another
>> facility at which to board, and I try not to burn too many bridges as I
>> go along.
>
Why dont you ask for some proof that the horse needs blankets to begin with?
Why should you have to prove anything...make them do it!
Sonia, Lone Oak Farm
RPM1
>Why dont you ask for some proof that the horse needs blankets to begin
with?
>Why should you have to prove anything...make them do it!
I like your approach, however, they'll probably
just flip open a State Line catalog. :-\
I worked at a barn where a bunch of boarders (6)
came from a barn that had just closed. They were
total newbies that went for trail rides every weekend
and then were convinced by the farm owner that they
were such good horsepersons that they should all own
horses. Guess what? The barn owner just happened
to sell horses. So they all bought horses (some of which
were clearly not appropriate for the rider) and paid to
board them at the farm owners place. Then they were
given a laundry list of things they absolutely NEEDED
for their horses (blankets, trailer wraps & beanies,
booties...). Guess what else? The farm owner just
happened to have a tack shop! <cha-ching>
People just get suckered in.
It's amazing how LITTLE a healthy horse actually needs.
Shelter, good grub, room to run and a buddy or two seems
to be what my two goofs require.
Ruth CM
Fbragg
My TB mare doesn't grow a heavy coat, lives out, and even she is fine
out in 20f weather as long as it's not wet or windy. (I have gone out
at 2:00am to check her before.) I have the opposite problem. I don't
blanket my mare as the barn owner and all my boarders want blankets on
theirs if it gets 40 or below! I have left articles, newsgroup
posting, etc for them to read but they insist their little pookie is
cold! I think they suspect I'm trying to cut my work load when I'm
trying to do what's best! I have one who wants her horse double
blanketed if it gets below 25. (thankfully here in Georgia that
doesn't happen all that often so I do as I'm told and bite my tongue!)
I still don't blanket my mare though unless its wet, windy and cold at
the same time!
Fran
(who blankets because the owners are cold)
Don Bruder
<rpm1de...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
: It's amazing how LITTLE a healthy horse actually needs.
: Shelter, good grub, room to run and a buddy or two seems
: to be what my two goofs require.
YEP YEP YEP! :)
Chow, water, a place to hide from the worst downpours, a pal to play
"chase me!" with, and room to chase/be chased keeps our crew amazingly
"maintenance free".
Richard Bishop
RPM1 <rpm1de...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:90ln6g$i3g$1...@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net...
> Soniaz123 wrote:
> >Why dont you ask for some proof that the horse needs blankets to begin
> with?
> >Why should you have to prove anything...make them do it!
>
> I like your approach, however, they'll probably
> just flip open a State Line catalog. :-\
>
> I worked at a barn where a bunch of boarders (6)
> came from a barn that had just closed. They were
> total newbies that went for trail rides every weekend
> and then were convinced by the farm owner that they
> were such good horsepersons that they should all own
> horses. Guess what? The barn owner just happened
> to sell horses. So they all bought horses (some of which
> were clearly not appropriate for the rider) and paid to
> board them at the farm owners place. Then they were
> given a laundry list of things they absolutely NEEDED
> for their horses (blankets, trailer wraps & beanies,
> booties...). Guess what else? The farm owner just
> happened to have a tack shop! <cha-ching>
>
> People just get suckered in.
>
> Shelter, good grub, room to run and a buddy or two seems
> to be what my two goofs require.
>
That's exactly what my four gals have. And they are almost never sick.
Maybe
a mild snotty nose once in a while but that's it.
I have a friend whose QH gelding is never turned out without a blanket of
some kind
and leg wraps. She also never rides him except with splint boots. IMHO,
this
is over-kill and tends to contribute to problems.
Sue
> Ruth CM
>
>
>
>
>
Scott/SLSH
"RPM1" <rpm1de...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:90ln6g$i3g$1...@node17.cwnet.frontiernet.net...
> came from a barn that had just closed. They were
> total newbies that went for trail rides every weekend
> and then were convinced by the farm owner that they
> were such good horsepersons that they should all own
> horses. Guess what? The barn owner just happened
> to sell horses. So they all bought horses (some of which
> were clearly not appropriate for the rider) and paid to
> board them at the farm owners place. Then they were
> given a laundry list of things they absolutely NEEDED
> for their horses (blankets, trailer wraps & beanies,
> booties...). Guess what else? The farm owner just
> happened to have a tack shop! <cha-ching>
>
> People just get suckered in.
This didn't happen to be Emerald Arabians did it?
--
Scott
Stokes Landing Sport Horses
Soniaz123
>>Why dont you ask for some proof that the horse needs blankets to begin
>with?
>>Why should you have to prove anything...make them do it!
>
>I like your approach, however, they'll probably
>just flip open a State Line catalog. :
>From: "RPM1" rpm1de...@frontiernet.ne
OK, well then tell them about where I work....
I managed a QH farm...mares, foals and stallions. We have about 40 horses
right now, down from 60 in the summer. There is only 1 horse (aged) with a
blanket and only 3 (included blanketed horse) inside. Everything else lives in
a sheltered 2 sided pens in the winter. Today it was 5 degrees when I got up
to go to work and that didnt even include the wind chill. These horses are
FINE! Even the babies (4-6 months) are great. My own horses are either out
24/7 (mares) or turned out during the day and in stalls at night (weanlings)
none wear a blanket. When it gets extra cold I just feed extra hay and they
are fine.
Sonia, Lone Oak Farm
Samantha Jordan
remind you that these folks work for you. You have hired them to
perfom a service & by ignoring your instructions (best intentions or
no) they are not doing their jobs. I doubt that you would accept this
type of treatment if it were regarding feed or medicine, so I think
you should stick to your guns and insist that your horse receive the
care you entail.
good luck,
Samantha
Les Szalay
Have they seen it shivering, tucked up or otherwise uncomfortable? If
not, then they have no right to push the issue, especially as you are
a (presumably) paying customer.
Having said this, IMHO, the majority of horses can go quite happily
without rugs, but there is still a minority which do need them to be
comfortable. These are mainly aged horses, but also include
"domesticated" breeds such as TBs who often don't grow a very
substantial winter coat.
I have a 22 year old TB gelding whose winter coat is no different to
his summer coat, is fed fattener pellets *ad lib* and as much hay as
he'll eat and starts feeling the cold at 59F/15C (ie. fluffs up).
Drop another 10 degrees or add rain/wind and he'll be shivering. This
horse is stabled in winter (nights and bad weather only) and he
*needs* a rug. After all this, his ribs are only just covered.
So of course, there are exceptions, but unless your horse is not one
of them and you're sure that they have no grounds for complaint, then
they really have no right to tell a client how to look after their
horse. Also, you could warn them that they'll be up for damages if
your horse injures itself as a result of wearing their rug and have it
put in writing with their signature on it.
Katherine (in Oz)
she...@my-deja.com
soni...@aol.comremoveme (Soniaz123) wrote:
> >Soniaz123 wrote:
>
>When it gets extra cold I just feed extra hay
>and they
>are fine.
>
> Sonia, Lone Oak Farm
BINGO! That's the key to get those burners going. I swear people are
like neurotic, overprotective mothers with these animals - it gets cold
out and they start piling on the blankets instead of using some common
sense. First of all, we can not equate our own comfort with that of
horses because a horses ambient temperature tolerance is lower than
ours. I read somewhere (though I regretfully can't remember where to
quote the source!!) that horses are most comfortable in a temperature
range from 40F to 50F. I can't tell you how many people I've overheard
say that as soon as the temperature HITS 40F to 50F, they start piling
on the blankets. Maybe they should pile the blankets on themselves,but
their horses are just getting comfortable.
My three are far more uncomforable in the summer heat then in the winter
cold - and being in Iowa we get both extremes. I can't hardly get them
to move in the summer. In the winter they're all full of energy and
spunk. I've only had to blanket one horse in my life and that's when my
first horse got old. I do keep a close eye on my three guys, though,
but if I see that they are stressed from the cold, I just heap on an
extra helping of sweet feed (since they already have access to free
choice hay) and that is always all they need.
Sherdan http://www.geocities.com/sherdan_52213/jhroses.html
d_pe...@my-deja.com
> Have they actually given a reason why your horse needs a blanket?
Well, he gets about 50% more feed than most of the other horses, and is
still pretty thin, though he's put on some weight slowly but surely
over the last nine months. I have to mention here that he turned five
this past year, and has grown another 2.5 inches in the last 12 months.
He's already a big horse to begin with, last week he was just under
17.1h, though who knows how tall he is today, since he seems to grow in
fits and spurts. Their theory is that if he spends less energy keeping
warm, he'll put on some weight.
> Having said this, IMHO, the majority of horses can go quite happily
> without rugs...
This particular horse came to me from up near the Canadian border last
December, having spent two months out in an open, exposed field in the
snow, without a blanket. He was in good health, though a little skinny.
My feeling is that this particular gelding is just a late bloomer, and
still spending a lot of calories growing.
I've had three vets we've worked with over the last year, and all have
said he's in good health, none have thought him too thin for his stage
in life.
All this said, I put a notice on the stall door that stated Horse was
not to be blanketed. This isn't my style at all, and I feel somewhat
like I'm making this a public issue at the barn, but guess what? No
blanket on Horse the last two nights. It seems a shame to me that it
has to come to this. Oh well, I guess I just have to learn that
discussion and diplomacy isn't always going to effect change.
Thanks for the discussion guys!
-D
greenkn...@my-deja.com
>Their theory is that if he spends less energy keeping
>warm, he'll put on some weight.
It's a very sound theory. If you already have trouble feeding your
horse enough to keep weight under normal circumstances (and 50% than
comparable horses - some of which are growing, too - seems to point to
that) then rugging him up to keep him warm is a very good option
indeed. Sensible. Have you tried using a feed balancer rather than more
hard feed? We've got one horse on the yard who, with the help of feed
balancer, went from enourmous rations (more than my underweight TB was
getting, and he's a 14.1 cob) to 'normal' rations, so it's worth a try -
after counting out normal things such as worms, teeth etc.
> > Having said this, IMHO, the majority of horses can go quite happily
> > without rugs...
>
> This particular horse came to me from up near the Canadian border last
> December, having spent two months out in an open, exposed field in the
> snow, without a blanket. He was in good health, though a little
> skinny.
Guess why...
> All this said, I put a notice on the stall door that stated Horse was
> not to be blanketed. This isn't my style at all, and I feel somewhat
> like I'm making this a public issue at the barn, but guess what? No
> blanket on Horse the last two nights.
I think there are two issues here - one whether your horse would be
better off wearing a rug (where I tend towards agreement with the
stable owners) and one whether they can change your horse-care regimen
as they see fit, where I'm definitely on your side. However, if I was
the stable owner and I felt that the horse was getting less than
optimal care, I would not just stand by and watch either.
Catja
and the Count
mmchugh
>
> xxa...@pasteur.dialix.com.au wrote:
> > Have they actually given a reason why your horse needs a blanket?
>
> Well, he gets about 50% more feed than most of the other horses, and is
> still pretty thin, though he's put on some weight slowly but surely
50% more grain or 50% more hay? If it's hay, then they're not feeding
enough hay to begin with. If it's grain, they're probably not feeding
enough hay to begin with. :-)
Your horse is not clipped and living outside all the time in rainy, raw
England. He's in northern California, inside a dry barn at night where
the temps in the barn probably never, ever go below freezing since the
other horses help heat the barn. He's perfectly comfortable with his
full coat.
Do you see him shivering? If not, then it's a good bet he's not cold.
I'd worry about overfeeding a concentrate like grain to a growing
horse. He could develop OCD. However, he should have free choice
access to all the good grass (not alfalfa) hay he can eat.
As far as helping him gain a little weight, I'd go with a high fat
supplement. I've tried rice bran, much touted here on the newsgroup,
without any success but I recently tried a different high fat supplement
called Nu-Weight by Select which really did the trick for my two. It's
50% fat as opposed to 20% fat for rice bran. The downside is that it's
very pricey ($40/10 lbs., I think) but I found that one bucket did the
trick for two big (16.3 & 17.1H) Canadian TBs. You could also go the
much less expensive route of 100% fat and just supplement with some
vegetable oil.
BTW, grain doesn't keep a horse warm. The digestion of hay does. So
adding more grain might put more weight on but it has very little to do
with him being cold (or not).
Glad to hear your note worked, though.
Mary
Schmdthaus
<<All this said, I put a notice on the stall door that stated Horse was
not to be blanketed.>>
Good for you. And you're right, the only tact and diplomacy some people
understand is the written equivalent of a two-by-four!
Laurie
John Hasler
> Well, he gets about 50% more feed than most of the other horses, and is
> the last nine months.
How much _hay_ is he getting? He should get all he can eat.
--
John Hasler
jo...@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, Wisconsin
Kamm2MacD
>--
>John Hasler
Shouldn't this state 'He should get all - the GRASS hay -he can eat.'???
There was a problem around here a few years ago when the local paper misquoted
a vet in a series on winter equine care.... he had said GRASS hay, and the
paper quoted him as saying 'hay' and there were a lot of folks who thought
then, well, alfalfa is hay.... fed free choice alfalfa and ran into problems.-
alfalfa related colics, founders and hypoprotenemia (sp?)...... let alone a lot
of very overweight horses.
Eleanore
Paul Kamm & Eleanore MacDonald
neo impressionist folk music
http://songs.com/kammac
J.A. Zanot
>>John Hasler wrote:
>>How much _hay_ is he getting? He should get all he can eat.
>Shouldn't this state 'He should get all - the GRASS hay -he can eat.'???
I would hope so!
>There was a problem around here a few years ago when the local paper misquoted
>a vet in a series on winter equine care.... he had said GRASS hay, and
>the
>paper quoted him as saying 'hay' and there were a lot of folks who thought
>then, well, alfalfa is hay.... fed free choice alfalfa and ran into problems.-
>
>alfalfa related colics, founders and hypoprotenemia (sp?)...... let alone
>a lot
>of very overweight horses.
Gads! Think about feeding all the alfalfa they wanted. How hard is to scrape
an exploded horse off a ceiling anyway?
A few weeks back while looking at a new indoor for winter renting I went to a
barn full of Morgans and Saddlebreds. The woman showed me her hay and I then
understood the attitudes of the horses there. Rich-green-lush alfalfa which
she was proud of, but frankly she was inducing mind boggling stir crazy horses
by feeding it. The horses were completely insane, stall walkers, cribbers,
biters, and one who was circling her stall like the Indians around the wagon
train (in old movies). Also alfalfa hay does not have the optimum
calcium/phorphorus ratio you need to reach maturity in horses; and it is
believed to contribute to kidney/blatter problems in many horses if fed full
time.
Sorry, but even in the best situations all the hay you can eat is not
necessarily a good thing. My ponies would become bloated ticks! Four or five
flakes a day is plenty in my book. I don't need horses who need more than
that, and frankly I can't afford it either. At $260 a ton I can keep them fat
on what I feed them now, I do not want bedding made of hay. Many horses who
are over fed hay use it to bed on, and shavings are less expensive around here
than pricey hay. All he/she can eat sometimes makes he/she very sick and just
plain fat. MHO
~Jaz. J.A. Zanot
,;;;,
,;( )_, )~\|
;; / | |\
' ; \; \
ฐคบฐบค.,ธ ธ,.คบฐบคฐคบฐบค.,ธ ธ,.คบ
(remove: zzz, to reply)
John Hasler
> ...fed free choice alfalfa and ran into problems.- alfalfa related
> colics, founders and hypoprotenemia...
That's some mighty strange alfalfa. While it isn't the optimum hay for
horses, none of my nutrition references are that down on it.
> ...let alone a lot of very overweight horses.
Horses can get just as fat on good grass hay as on alfalfa. The subject
was a young, _underweight_ horse.
Kamm2MacD
>necessarily a good thing
I agree!! My mare gains weight, even in heavy work, just looking at grass!!
She's on a strict'diet', i have to weigh her (grass) hay..... spread it out
into 3 meals. Equals about 1 1/2 - 2 flakes a day..... 10 lbs of hay or less.
She gets to nibble on very short grass in her turnout/pasture most of the day,
but we keep it mowed so she can enjoy herself w/o the caloric intake!!
If she ate free choice grass hay she would be a 15.2 hand draft horse...... or
a derigible.....or a large bowling ball.
On the other hand, the TB rescue i had in my care for 2 years could have eaten
free choice all day and night and never gained an ounce. He did get free
choice grass hay... along with a flake of alfalfa at each feeding, rice bran,
equine senior, you name it. He did go from 900 lbs to 1300 lbs, but it sure
wasn't because of the grass hay!!
Kamm2MacD
No, it was simply alfalfa, fed FREE CHOICE to horses who obviously would have
done better on grass hay. In this case it caused problems... as it will in
horses anywhere fed free choice alfalfa (I reiterate, free choice) who do not
need such a rich roughage.
It *caused* overweight horses, in the instance I spoke of.... it was not
neccessarily fed to overweight horses.
Alwzhorsn
<snip story of Nor Cal horse being forced to wear ill fitting blanket by
'helpful' barn owners even though he's inside at night>
I'm gonna play devil's advocate here <seg>
Have you taken a long, hard look at your horse? is it possible that he COULD
benefit from being blanketed?
my belief is that if a horse is naturally light bodied (therefore, less mass to
keep him warm), is naturally thin coated, is a hard keeper, or is elderly they
may indeed benefit from blanketing even though folks say it's not necessary.
I have an elderly mare who wore a turnout blanket for the first time last
winter. she came through the winter with more weight than she has in the past.
she also seemed just generally stronger and healthier through the winter than
in previous years.
It may be that the 'helpful' barn people see something in your horse that you
don't. That said, there's no excuse for them going over your head and
blanketing the horse.
(P&M)
Jennifer
alwh...@aol.com
CMSQ...@webtv.net
first place. I like the idea of a letter from your vet. And a firm but
friendly (sorta) "you will not blanket my horse.
Candy
RPM1
>I agree!! My mare gains weight, even in heavy work, just looking at
grass!!
>She's on a strict'diet', i have to weigh her (grass) hay..... spread it out
>into 3 meals. Equals about 1 1/2 - 2 flakes a day..... 10 lbs of hay or
less.
Wow, that IS one easy keeper!
Since horses by nature have a need to
chew, forage & twiddle with food all day,
maybe she could have more if she had
hay of poorer quality? Maybe it could go
in a really tight net so that the horse can't
just glom it all down at once? Don't they
make something like that - a slow feeder?
<shrug>
>On the other hand, the TB rescue i had in my care for 2 years could have
eaten
>free choice all day and night and never gained an ounce.
Now, THAT'S what I'm used to dealing with.
>He did get free
>choice grass hay... along with a flake of alfalfa at each feeding, rice
bran,
>equine senior, you name it. He did go from 900 lbs to 1300 lbs, but it
sure
>wasn't because of the grass hay!!
He would have if given the time and high quality hay.
However, if the horse has fallen back on his coat the
task will be much more difficult on hay alone as you'll
be fighting against the season. It takes at least a full
year to get things set right, sometimes longer.
We got our dressage rescue Tb a few years ago.
When it was agreed that we'd take him the barn
owners were told in August NOT to blanket him.
We showed up in the end of September and sure
enough the poor SOB had been blanketed! He was
behind on his coat so we had to do a bit more fancy
dancing with him than I would have liked. The next
year he went thru a full season cycle and he grew
a fairly decent coat but we still had to watch him
closely. This year he's a fuzz ball like the other
one. They eat hand mixed whole grains (no
supplements other than salt) and the best hay
we can afford. They also drink very warm water.
The most I do if it's going to be REALLY cold
or wet is throw some extra cracked corn at them
in a warm mash along with gobs of hay and the
usual warm water.
Ruth CM
MJ McHugh
> Kamm2MacD wrote:
> >I agree!! My mare gains weight, even in heavy work, just looking at
> grass!!
> >She's on a strict'diet', i have to weigh her (grass) hay..... spread it out
> >into 3 meals. Equals about 1 1/2 - 2 flakes a day..... 10 lbs of hay or
> less.
>
> Wow, that IS one easy keeper!
>
Wilbur was an "etherian", that is, he seemed to subside on the ether. But in
the last two years, his metabolism has changed most probably due to age. Now he
and Khan both get Equine Senior (~4-6lbs per day each) and about 30 lbs each
timothy/alfalfa mix (no more than 20% alfalfa).
> one. They eat hand mixed whole grains (no
> supplements other than salt) and the best hay
> we can afford. They also drink very warm water.
Whole grains? Isn't that a waste? I've read that a good portion of some whole
grains (corn and oats in particular) just pass right thru, therefore making
cracked or crimped grains a better choice. My feed store carries 'steam crimped
oats' which look whole but have been processed for better digestion.
> The most I do if it's going to be REALLY cold
> or wet is throw some extra cracked corn at them
> in a warm mash along with gobs of hay and the
> usual warm water.
>
> Ruth CM
Last winter when we were -10F for weeks at a time, they just ate more hay. They
just about doubled their normal consumption.
Mary
RPM1
>Whole grains?
I should have been clear. The grains have been
processed for better digestion (finely cracked corn,
steam crimped oats...). I meant whole grains as
opposed to the processed and extruded stuff.
> Isn't that a waste?
You're absolutely right. True WHOLE grains are a waste
(but they do make for interesting manure).
>Last winter when we were -10F for weeks at a time, they just ate more hay.
They
>just about doubled their normal consumption.
Sounds right. I do those little unnecessary things
(warm mashes) to make ME feel better as I
stuff my face in my warm house.
Snow flurries right now...
Ruth CM
John Hasler
> It [alfalfa] *caused* overweight horses,...
According to _Nutrient_ _Requirements_ _of_ _Horses_ alfalfa hay has a DE
of 1.13 Mcal/lb while orchardgrass hay has a DE of .99 Mcal/lb. In
practice you will see more variation between one load of hay and the next
than the difference between alfalfa and grass.
Straight alfalfa is not the best thing to feed your horse, but it isn't
poison.
--
John Hasler
jo...@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
Farleyaw
it around the edges of the stall. My TB had colic surgery and I had to be
really careful about letting him eat too fast so I used to spread his hay,
literally stalk by stalk, around his stall so he would have to spend time
finding each piece. Poor guy was not happy with the miserable little 1/4 flake
he was recieving each feed.
Anne :)
Kamm2MacD
>poison.
Now who in the world said it was poison, John? You certainly are excellent at
taking one's post and twisting it totally out of context. For the sake of
argument, or just having to be right????
OB Horse: our new roundpen is holding up well so far with the winter traffic
it's getting.... it needs 2 days to drain after a good storm, but then the
footing is fine. I would do a few things differently if I had it to do
over....
1) spend days rolling the base, and wait until it's 100% dry before putting the
footing down... we had no choice, racing the pending rainstorms, so parts of
the base were not compacted 100%. Tempest has hit it a few times in fits of
play and areas still damp and not 100% have loosened and I'm picking little
rocks out of the footing....
2) I'm not totally happy with the 'washed' sand..... it's pretty dirty, a 'bit'
clumpy, but we hand pick anything that clumps and won't break up easily. It
also is not angulated enough, so it's not yet packing the way I would like...
Perhaps in time it will act totally differently - it is yet just a month old!!
Oh well.... luckily this is just a 60' roundpen.... it works great and will
serve it's purpose.
If we were to construct and arena, I would certainly follow USDF's 'Under Foot'
to the TEE..... no cutting corners!
Tom Stovall
>Straight alfalfa is not the best thing to feed your horse, but it >isn't poison...
Back when, I had a feeds and feeding professor claim that alfalfa, in
conjunction with poor quality grass hay or poor pasture, was the *best*
thing one could feed a horse in Erath County, Texas.
Dr. MacMullin (DVM, MS, retired professor at Texas A&M) made the same
claim (presumably relative to the south Texas/Louisiana) during a
farriery seminar in which veterinary farriery segued into the realm
of the causes of cocked ankles on hothouse yearlings of the halter
persuasion.
Tom Stovall CJF
Farrier & Blacksmith
sto...@wt.net
http://www.katyforge.com
Jim and Nancy DeMarco
(snip)
>Last winter when we were -10F for weeks at a time, they just ate more hay. They
>just about doubled their normal consumption.
Ugh. Don't remind me.
I would love ideas for feeding hay more slowly. Like Eleanore, I have
the air fern problem here with Lucy, Stormy and Mollie. After Lucy's
experience, I have some concerns about feeding a lower quality hay,
particularly if it's at all coarse. And they do get dangerously fat
on free choice *good* grass hay, so I have reluctantly cut back.
I'm here all day, so they get hay in small amounts every 2 to 3 hours
from 6:30 AM to 8 PM, with an extra flake at 11 PM or midnight. It's
a PITA, but they're doing well, and not getting frighteningly obese.
(Well, Stormy is almost there, but he'll trim down quickly when he
finishes shaking off this *%$! virus and goes back to work.)
I have found that for *most* horses (not including the 3 mentioned
above), it works to feed some really, really nice hay along with some
crappy (but clean) hay. They'll suck down the nice stuff and pick at
the other stuff, sorta holding out for the next feeding of nice stuff.
If I feed just the poorer quality hay, they get used to it and suck
that down too.
I like having Druid here. I can keep him knee deep in beautiful green
leafy 2nd cutting timothy/clover, *and* feed him extruded Senior
feeds, rice bran and vegetable oil, and he looks good. He's finally
stopped cribbing, and he's quieter in turnout.
Lucy, however, will not rest until she finishes anything you put in
front of her.
Nancy DeMarco
Boxford, MA USA
John Hasler
> Whole grains? Isn't that a waste? I've read that a good portion of some
> whole grains (corn and oats in particular) just pass right thru,
> therefore making cracked or crimped grains a better choice.
According to Hintz the fraction of grain passed by a normal healthy horse
is such that it is cheaper to feed more than to pay the extra cost of
crimping or cracking.
Joel B Levin
"RPM1" <rpm1de...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
}MJ McHugh:
}>Whole grains?
. . .
}> Isn't that a waste?
}
}You're absolutely right. True WHOLE grains are a waste
}(but they do make for interesting manure).
Not to mention the interesting "crop" you get growing around the edges of the
manure pile. And boy, do those plants grow well there!
--
Nets: levin/at/bbn.com | Isn't that the beauty of complete unawareness?
or jbl/at/levin.mv.com| It's the very first thing you're unaware of.
or levinjb/at/gte.net |
ARS: KD1ON |
Kamm2MacD
>conjunction with poor quality grass hay or poor pasture, was the *best*
>thing one could feed a horse in Erath County, Texas.
YES.. but we WERE talking about feeding free choice, all you can eat.... in
that case, no vet will say it's the best to feed.
RPM1
>According to Hintz the fraction of grain passed by a normal healthy horse
>is such that it is cheaper to feed more than to pay the extra cost of
>crimping or cracking.
How can that be if you can actually SEE whole
oats in the poop? Does nutrition get sucked
out somehow anyway?
I feed finely cracked corn, crimped oats and
a small amount of alfalfa pellets. There's nothing
recognizable in the piles of poop I deal with.
Ruth CM
MJ McHugh
Interesting. I was wondering what Hintz would have to say about it.
Of course, when there's whole grains pass thru, it makes pasture maintenance a
snap. The birds happily oblige in spreading the manure.
Mary
RPM1
>Now who in the world said it was poison, John? You certainly are excellent
at
>taking one's post and twisting it totally out of context. For the sake of
>argument, or just having to be right????
Well, actually, I know folks who, due to freak
luck with a semi truck load of hay, fed their fat
QHs straight Finger Lakes alfalfa for well over
a year close to two or maybe longer (I forget).
Two of the three QHs suffered life ending injuries
from brittle bones. Since then I'm ever so
cautious about alfalfa.
I use it as a condiment as opposed to a complete
meal.
Ruth CM
John Hasler
> Of course, when there's whole grains pass thru, it makes pasture
> maintenance a snap. The birds happily oblige in spreading the manure.
I think they would do so anyway, for the bugs.
John Hasler
> According to Hintz the fraction of grain passed by a normal healthy horse
> is such that it is cheaper to feed more than to pay the extra cost of
> crimping or cracking.
Ruth writes:
> How can that be if you can actually SEE whole oats in the poop?
The oats you see in the manure are only a small fraction of those the horse
ate (assuming that the horse has good teeth).
> I feed finely cracked corn, crimped oats and a small amount of alfalfa
> pellets. There's nothing recognizable in the piles of poop I deal with.
How much extra are you paying for that processed grain? Are you sure it
wouldn't be cheaper to buy enough more straight grain to make up for what
the horses pass?
Also, how fresh is the processed grain you are feeding? Are you aware that
grain loses nutrients more rapidly when processed?
MJ McHugh
> Mary writes:
> > Of course, when there's whole grains pass thru, it makes pasture
> > maintenance a snap. The birds happily oblige in spreading the manure.
>
> I think they would do so anyway, for the bugs.
>
You know, you would think so but it doesn't seem to happen here. I just
have big piles out in the pastures that I'm going to have to spread when
they're thawed. The boys are on Equine Senior so there's nothing left.
Mary
RPM1
>How much extra are you paying for that processed grain? Are you sure it
>wouldn't be cheaper to buy enough more straight grain to make up for what
>the horses pass?
>
>Also, how fresh is the processed grain you are feeding? Are you aware that
>grain loses nutrients more rapidly when processed?
I'll check on both of the above. Thanks!
Ruth CM
Tom Stovall
>>Back when, I had a feeds and feeding professor claim that alfalfa, >>in conjunction with poor quality grass hay or poor pasture, was the
>>*best* thing one could feed a horse in Erath County, Texas...
>
>YES.. but we WERE talking about feeding free choice, all you can >eat...
Please carefully consider your correct usage of the past tense in
describing what "we" were talking about. I have great difficulty in
expressing my disinterest in what "we" were talking about and I'm
most especially disinterested in meeting any restrictions of
expression that "we" might wish to impose. Had "we" read for content,
"we" would have might have noticed that I responded only to that
portion of Mr. Hasler's post which I quoted. Then again, maybe not.
Tom Stovall CJF
Sam Houston Institute of Technology
Associate of Scientific Studies
http://www.katyforge.com
John Hasler
> Two of the three QHs suffered life ending injuries from brittle bones.
> Since then I'm ever so cautious about alfalfa.
Likely coincidence, but alfalfa does have a much higher calcium:phosporous
ratio than is optimum for horses. This imbalance is easily corrected,
though.
As I said, alfalfa is not the optimum forage for horses. It just isn't as
evil as some would have you believe.
Jorene Downs
"RPM1" <rpm1de...@frontiernet.net> wrote
> Well, actually, I know folks who, due to freak
> luck with a semi truck load of hay, fed their fat
> QHs straight Finger Lakes alfalfa for well over
> a year close to two or maybe longer (I forget).
> Two of the three QHs suffered life ending injuries
> from brittle bones. Since then I'm ever so
> cautious about alfalfa.
I suspect the people feeding their horses straight alfalfa had some other
factor that encouraged those brittle bones. Like *any* hay, there are
nutritional balances in alfalfa that need to be considered and possibly
dealt with using appropriate supplements. Sometimes the issues are regional,
like selenium. Sometimes the owner doesn't know enough to wait for later
cuttings of alfalfa to make it horse quality instead of higher TDN suitable
for cows.
You can't just throw armfuls of alfalfa at a horse on a regular basis, like
you can grass hay. You can feed alfalfa safely ... but not if you feed it
like you would a grass hay. ;)
In my region of CA, probably 99% of the horses hand fed get alfalfa. The
alfalfa is a major local crop due to the gazillion dairies looking for high
TDN hay. We go after later cuttings, and buy in quantity annually instead of
being at the mercy of whatever hay happens to be in storage for sale later.
We feed in quantity appropriate for each horse's needs, and supplement as
required to balance nutrition. Oat hay is available some years, in small
quantities ... many years the quality isn't appropriate.
Grass hays are available here if you're willing to buy in quantity and
import by the truckload ... and typically ends up more expensive than the
local alfalfa. About a decade ago we brought in a truckload from CO and at
the time it was barely cheaper than the current sky high local alfalfa
prices. And at that time our $12 / 100-125 pound alfalfa bale was half the
price of what was being charged in So CA. Even buying tons at a time,
importing the grass hay mix was cheaper that year. Normally when we need an
alternative to alfalfa - for example, a youngster starting to show hints of
epiphysitis and we have insufficient (or too rich) feed on pasture at that
time - if there isn't any quality oat hay available we buy a locally
prepared pellet combo that is built on a foundation of rye grass
--
Jorene
just moseyin' down the trail on a Paint horse
from the CEOates Ranch in California ... ;)
www.CEOates.com
meet other Rec.eq'ers on the Rogue's Gallery:
www.psnw.com/~jcdowns/RecEq/RecEq.html
Joel B Levin
John Hasler <jo...@dhh.gt.org> wrote:
}How much extra are you paying for that processed grain? Are you sure it
}wouldn't be cheaper to buy enough more straight grain to make up for what
}the horses pass?
First you would need to know how much of the grain consumed is passed through
and how much is chewed and utilized.
}Also, how fresh is the processed grain you are feeding? Are you aware that
}grain loses nutrients more rapidly when processed?
Good point.
/J
John Hasler
> How much extra are you paying for that processed grain? Are you sure it
> wouldn't be cheaper to buy enough more straight grain to make up for what
> the horses pass?
Joel writes:
> First you would need to know how much of the grain consumed is passed
> through and how much is chewed and utilized.
No, you just need to know how much more grain it takes to maintain
condition after switching from processed to unprocessed.
It's hardly worth worrying about for just a couple of head, though.
Joel B Levin
John Hasler <jo...@dhh.gt.org> wrote:
}Joel writes:
}> First you would need to know how much of the grain consumed is passed
}> through and how much is chewed and utilized.
}
}No, you just need to know how much more grain it takes to maintain
}condition after switching from processed to unprocessed.
}
}It's hardly worth worrying about for just a couple of head, though.
It matters to computer geek types, though (sigh)
Liz
>have big piles out in the pastures that I'm going to have to spread when
>they're thawed.
Wouldn't it be great if some genetic engineer would create an animal that would
eat the manure? Sort of a Pasture Catfish.
Meghan Noecker
There are a couplf of dogs who will eat manure if given the chance.
They will run into the stall and start munching. Rather gross. And
they don't do enough to actually make a difference in cleaning.
I suppose dung beetles would take care of it, but you would need a lot
of them.
Meghan
Friesians in the Northwest
http://www.zoocrewphoto.com/friesian.htm
Joel B Levin
Ross King
girlfriend keeps her TB is crazy. Everyone there (boarders) have 10 rugs
MINIMUM each!! Its just ludicrous. They have so many different types whether
its light, medium, heavy, waterproof, not waterproof, doona etc etc. The
temp there has mins of maybe 10C mostly year round, with max of 40C!! Hardly
needing "doona's" etc
My TB lives in a paddock in a much colder area of the country(-10C to 10C
during winter), NEVER wears rugs and he does not have a problem!! I have
been told numerous times that i am crazy by many people, but i have always
felt that if brumbies (mustangs) don't have coats, other horses shouldn't
need them either.
Cheers,
Ross
Kamm2MacD
>"we" would have might have noticed that I responded only to that
>portion of Mr. Hasler's post which I quoted. Then again, maybe not.
Mr Stovall, 'your' post was read for content,a
Kamm2MacD
>"we" would have might have noticed that I responded only to that
>portion of Mr. Hasler's post which I quoted. Then again, maybe not.
Mr Stovall, 'your' post was read for content, and it was deduced that you took
Mr Hassler's post out of context in regards to the content to which he was
reponding. Perhaps you should try reading for content yourself.
Tom Stovall
Eleanore MacDonald wrote:
>
>>Had "we" read for content, "we" would have might have noticed that
>>I responded only to that portion of Mr. Hasler's post which I
>>quoted. Then again, maybe not.
>Mr Stovall, 'your' post was read for content...
It was probably read for content by many, but not by yourself.
>and it was deduced...
Passive voice? Deduced by whom? Is this expression of illogic the result
of some committee consensus; or, is it merely a hackneyed middle school
debating ploy used to add weight to a piss poor argument, similar to the
incorrect use of the first person plural to express a personal opinion?
Given your recent "we" history, my money's on latter.
>that you took Mr Hassler's post out of context in regards to the
>content to which he was reponding...
While you and yours may find it offputting, like anyone else, I can
choose to respond to all of, or any part of, any discussion on this
forum. Please understand that I have a great deal more concern for the
plight of homeless horseturds than I have for anyone's opinion relative
to the political correctness of my responses: I post to please myself.
Should you feel this characteristic of my humble contributions to this
forum affords me too much freedom of expression, you might consider that
no one is required to read anything anyone else writes.
>Perhaps you should try reading for content yourself...
Your demonstrated inability does not imply the same deficiency in
myself.
John Hasler
> Mr Stovall, 'your' post was read for content, and it was deduced that you
> took Mr Hassler's post out of context in regards to the content to which
> he was reponding.
As the author of the article which you have incorrectly credited to Mr.
Hassler, I found nothing to take exception to in Tom's article.
Bethe Blasienz
>Please understand that I have a great deal more concern for the
>plight of homeless horseturds than I have for anyone's opinion relative
>to the political correctness of my responses: I post to please myself.
GO Tom!!!!!! :-)
And, by the way, the hoofpick is totally the cats meow. I love the way it
handles. It almost picks hooves by itself! And with 40 hooves to pick daily,
you can bet your sweet bippy that the less work I have to do, the better off my
back is!!!!!!! Great great tool!
Bethe Blasienz
Bryan, Texas
Kamm2MacD
>Hassler, I found nothing to take exception to in Tom's article.
Being the person your post was in response to, I did.
It's OK, I know the good ol boy network well..... never wrong and never
parted...... You boys always give me something to chuckle about.
Kamm2MacD
> I post to please myself.
That is great and well and good. I personally am not interested in your
concern for homeless horseturds. To me, and perhaps others not stooping to kiss
your old and respected Texan horseshoer's ass, it sounds like you just (at
times) like to 'hear' yourself talk. Aural masturbation.
Simply, your response to 'Hasler' who responded to the original post, was out
of context. Out of thin air for argument's sake perhaps... Plain and simple.
No horseturds about it.
Richard Bishop
Joel B Levin <j...@levin.mv.com> wrote in message
news:p6c63t8gg98nf5v54...@news.bbn.com...
> In <20001210020155...@ng-fu1.aol.com>,
> foxy...@aol.comnojunk (Liz) wrote:
>
> }>I just
> }>have big piles out in the pastures that I'm going to have to spread when
> }>they're thawed.
> }
> }Wouldn't it be great if some genetic engineer would create an animal that
would
> }eat the manure? Sort of a Pasture Catfish.
>
> Dog.
I hope my neighbor's boxer comes over and eats a whole lot of manure
then pukes it on their rug.
Sue, cleaning up trashed trash cans
Tom Stovall
Eleanore MacDonald wrote:
>> I post to please myself...
>That is great and well and good...
While it's gratifying to have, your permission is not required.
>I personally am not interested in your concern for homeless
>horseturds...
More correctly, lack of concern. Please read for content.
>To me, and perhaps others not stooping to kiss your old and
>respected Texan horseshoer's ass, it sounds like you just (at
>times) like to 'hear' yourself talk...
Could be. Listen carefully and you might learn a little something about
a horse.
Aural masturbation...
Would that be somewhat akin to "neo impressionist" folk music?
>Simply, your response to 'Hasler' who responded to the original >post, was out of context...
While it apparently causes you no end of distress, no one is required to
apply your personal constraints to their posts.
>Out of thin air for argument's sake perhaps... Plain and simple.
Providing an opposing viewpoint to a statement is hardly "from thin
air", although it's certainly argumentative. And, if you find the
expression of opposing viewpoints to be offputting, I fear you're in for
no end of digestive disturbances should you keep forcing yourself to
read my stuff.
That said, I heartily commend you for your concern for the welfare of
the homeless horseturds.
Kamm2MacD
>Could be. Listen carefully and you might learn a little something about
>a horse.
Hmm, I've been listening to you for years Tom, and at times some of what I hear
is about as enlightening as what I hear from my beer totin', dog kickin',
belchin' and grinnin' bubba cowboy neighbor...... and if feeding alfalfa free
choice is something you are indicating I might learn something about, I truly
doubt there's much I'd want to learn from you, other than about horseshoeing.
But thanks for the invitation.
>Aural masturbation...
>Would that be somewhat akin to "neo impressionist" folk music?
Not in the least. It ain't akin to TexMex either, though.
Mary Healey
> I wouldn't spend my money on a blanket my horse doesn't need in the
> first place.
Cheap and shortsighted. I spent the money on a blanket my horse doesn't
need - it's in the medical kit, along with a lot of other things he
doesn't currently need. One good ice storm, or if he gets stuck in the
crick, or if he gets sick, then that blanket comes in handy.
--
Mary H. & the Ames National Zoo: Raise a Fund ("Regis");
ANZ Sam-I-Am, CGC; ANZ Noah Doll, CGC; ANZ Babylon Ranger; ANZ MarmaDUKE
felines, finches and fish
Brian.Farrelly
contributor that why use blankets when horses have natural
winter coats. However here in the west of Norway winter is
often wet and windy as well as cold(ish) and people with
experience tell me that the main function here is to keep
the horse dry and thereby reduce heat loss due to
evaporation. In other words the same idea as blanketing
a sweaty horse to avoid chill. Does this make sense?
Brian
--
mailto:Brian.F...@nho.hydro.com Norsk Hydro Research Centre
phone +47 55 99 68 74 ((( Postboks 7190
fax +47 55 99 69 70 2oooS N-5020 Bergen
home +47 55 13 78 49 HYDRO Norway
Jim and Nancy DeMarco
>Cheap and shortsighted. I spent the money on a blanket my horse doesn't
>need - it's in the medical kit, along with a lot of other things he
>doesn't currently need. One good ice storm, or if he gets stuck in the
>crick, or if he gets sick, then that blanket comes in handy.
Yup. I just ordered one for Lucy. She wore one for 3 days while she
was at her sickest, and I expect she'll have it outgrown by the time
she needs it again (hopefully never).
Nancy DeMarco
Boxford, MA USA
Franks, D. A. (Deborah)
>
> My SO says that it takes 12 hours for the extra hay in cold weather
> to get digested, thereby keeping the horse warm. Any opinions?
>
I would think just the START of the digestion process is what
creates warmth, not the calories they get from the feed.
When I have had a shivering horse, they were just standing
there, and when hay is put out they start milling
around with the other horses, warming up from the movement.
Deb
Tom Stovall
Eleanore MacDonald wrote:
>>Could be. Listen carefully and you might learn a little something
>>about a horse.
>Hmm, I've been listening to you for years Tom, and at times some of >what I hear is about as enlightening as what I hear from my beer
>totin', dog kickin', belchin' and grinnin' bubba cowboy
>neighbor...
In reality, none of the characteristics you ascribe to your neighbor
have anything to do with horses. Bubba might be a brilliant
horseman; he might be a gunsel of the first magnitude: the only thing
discernible about his horsemanship from your description is your
prejudice.
>and if feeding alfalfa free choice is something you are indicating I
>might learn something about...
If my aunt were differently endowed, she'd be my uncle. Try to argue
with what I've written, not what you wish I'd written. I posted that
I'd heard a feeds and feeding professor and a Texas A&M faculty
veterinarian say that alfalfa was the *best* thing one could feed a
horse, when fed in conjunction with poor quality hay or pasture, in
certain parts of the country. I didn't mention frequency.
Your transparent attempt to wrongly attribute the unmentioned
matter of frequency to me would appear to be another illogical school
yard debating ploy, closely akin to your incorrect use of passive
voice and first person plural. Are you attempting to prove that the
consistent use of logical fallacies has become de rigueur in the
politically correct newspeak of suburban yuppiescum?
>I truly doubt there's much I'd want to learn from you, other than
>about horseshoeing...
Your loss.
>But thanks for the invitation...
Think nothing of it, attempting to educate the willfully ignorant is
one of my many character faults.
>>>Aural masturbation...
>>Would that be somewhat akin to "neo impressionist" folk music?
>Not in the least. It ain't akin to TexMex either, though.
More's the pity, soy aficionado! Hispanic folklórico styles such as
tejano, conjunto, norteño, and frontera - collectively called
Tex-Mex here in Texas - is wonderful stuff that can trace its lineage
back to Muslim Spain, c750-1450 AD.
Since "neo impressionism" is a style of 19th Century French
impressionist painting, does "neo impressionist" folk music pertain
to a style of French folk music of the late 1800s? Or, did some
yuppiescum just borrow the name because they figured it sounded cool
and nobody'd know what it means anyway?
John Hasler
> I spent the money on a blanket my horse...
Terry explained how to make your own out of feed sacks quite some time ago.
It is also trivial to to add the necessary straps to an ordinary wool
blanket.
--
John Hasler
jo...@dhh.gt.org (John Hasler)
Dancing Horse Hill
Elmwood, WI
RPM1
>It is also trivial to to add the necessary straps to an ordinary wool
>blanket.
What a great idea.
I have some old 100% wool army blankets that
I could use. I bet they'd be great for quick wicking
and then pulling once the horse is dry. I wonder if
they make alligator clamp straps? (I hate to sew)
Ruth CM
Kamm2MacD
>>I hear is about as enlightening as what I hear from my beer
>>totin', dog kickin', belchin' and grinnin' bubba cowboy
>>neighbor...
Stovall wrote.....
> Bubba might be a brilliant
>horseman; he might be a gunsel of the first magnitude: the only thing
>discernible about his horsemanship from
>your description is your
>prejudice.
No prejudice here..... and no, he is not a brilliant horseman. Two bony horses
with untreated pigeon fever, living on 1/8" of pasture dregs. One with 2
diagonal shoes (f/b) on terribly overgrown feet. the other with a vertical
split up a splayed and very lame foot. Takes them out once a month to work his
starving cattle, runs them up and down the gravel road like a real yahoo. I
have other bubba neighbors who are great horsemen/women, and this guy isn't one
of them.
Now I assume you know all about prejudice. I wouldn't know about what you call
'yuppiescum', but you seem to have some fairly strong feelings on the subject.
>Are you attempting to prove that the
>consistent use of logical fallacies has become de rigueur in the
>politically correct newspeak of suburban yuppiescum?
Nope... Your interpretation of the intention and content of my post, not mine.
And, as an aside, we do not live in a suburban area......
agricultural/ranching/farming in N. CA. I guess it's the disagreeing with your
highness, 'musician in CA' and again, your interpretation that threw you off??
Yes, Tom, Tex-Mex is great music. And yes, 'neo-impressionist' folk music can
trace it's roots and influences back, way back to Celtic roots, which yes, does
include France.
CMNewell
<rpm1de...@frontiernet.net> wrote:
>I have some old 100% wool army blankets that
>I could use. I bet they'd be great for quick wicking
>and then pulling once the horse is dry. I wonder if
>they make alligator clamp straps? (I hate to sew)
>
We had a supply of those in the hospitals when I was a
student. Used mostly for dog blankets, but when I had a case out in
the old isolation unit one winter (very cold out there, and she was
body clipped), I begged one off the central supply tech. Couldn't get
a real horseblanket to use, because she was a possible salmonella
case.
The army blanket worked just fine with some baling twine.
CMNewell, DVM
self-proclaimed vet
Surgeon General of the Bogbash Party
Bill Kambic
<snipped>
> >Not in the least. It ain't akin to TexMex either, though.
>
> More's the pity, soy aficionado! Hispanic folklórico styles such as
> tejano, conjunto, norteño, and frontera - collectively called
> Tex-Mex here in Texas - is wonderful stuff that can trace its lineage
> back to Muslim Spain, c750-1450 AD.
Viva Flaco Jimenez!!!!!!
Bill Kambic, Bright Star Farm, Kingston, TN
http://www.geocities.com/Heartland/Hills/1816
Mangalarga Marchador: Style, Stamina, Symmetry, Smoothness
"Seniorita, dos Dox Equiis Lager, por favor!"
Samantha Jordan
example, I'm currently blanketing my guy that I brought over from NZ.
He arrived in August with his full winter coat and promptly shed out
to his summer coat in time for winter to arrive : ( Poor guy was very
confused.
A large number of horses at my barn are blanketed, but they are
clipped. The real wooly mammoths that do not have the show clipping's
are just cruising around naked ; )
Samantha
On Sun, 10 Dec 2000 20:26:20 +1100, "Ross King" <rosc...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
CMNewell
wrote:
>Tom Stovall wrote:
>
><snipped>
>
>
>> >Not in the least. It ain't akin to TexMex either, though.
>>
>> More's the pity, soy aficionado! Hispanic folklórico styles such as
>> tejano, conjunto, norteño, and frontera - collectively called
>> Tex-Mex here in Texas - is wonderful stuff that can trace its lineage
>> back to Muslim Spain, c750-1450 AD.
>
>Viva Flaco Jimenez!!!!!!
>
Hell, even if she's a California jingoist, she could do a lot worse
than Los Lobos.
Ross King
abnormal weather (ie snow). I think the horse would get the shock of its
life if it snowed here!!
Ross
"Samantha Jordan" <sama...@excitehome.net> wrote in message
news:msga3t4r9kr8diok9...@4ax.com...
Jim and Nancy DeMarco
>Terry explained how to make your own out of feed sacks quite some time ago.
>It is also trivial to to add the necessary straps to an ordinary wool
>blanket.
IMO, if you're going to blanket, then blanket. It seems to me that
feed sacks, while providing a break from the wind, will decrease the
coat's ability to loft without replacing it with much of an air space.
Lucy did wear a wool blanket out grazing in falling weather. It did
the job well enough, but a plain old quilted blanket that fit her
really well would have been much easier. It's worth the $57 I spent
to have something I don't need to make myself, or worry about slipping
or blowing or tangling her up, should I ever need it again.
Besides, if I have it, I won't need it.
ro...@win.bright.net
to purchase a piece of polar fleece. It comes 72 inches wide and
you can buy any length you wish at a fabric store. Buy this at
a discount fabric outlet in an odd print or unpopular color and
you can usually get what you need for $10 US. A couple ties which
could be installed with pop rivets if you can't or won't sew and
you have a useful cooler or blanket. If you keep a couple of these
you can put one on when horse is warm after work and it usually will
wick the sweat to its outer surface. Take it off and put on the
other and the horse can stay comfortable while drying faster.
No need to worry about unraveling in polar fleece and it can be
easily washed if you need to.
=====================================================================
Robin Crickman telephone: (715) 639-2641 email: ro...@dhh.gt.org
Dancing Horse Hill, N6512 110th Street, Elmwood, Wisconsin, 54740 USA
=====================================================================
Tom Stovall
Eleanore MacDonald wrote:
>>Bubba might be a brilliant horseman; he might be a gunsel of the
>>first magnitude: the only thing discernible about his horsemanship
>>from your description is your prejudice...
>No prejudice here...
Right. Nor stereotyping.
>and no, he is not a brilliant horseman...
Ah, I get it now: your comparison was a failed attempt at denigration by
implied association.
>Now I assume you know all about prejudice...
Yes'm, I'm fairly prejudiced when it comes to yuppiescum. I've seen too
goddamn many horses hurt because of their willful ignorance and
politically correct stupidity.
>I wouldn't know about what you call 'yuppiescum', but you seem to >have some fairly strong feelings on the subject...
Yuppiescum are folks who value political correctness more than being
correct when it comes to horses. They seem partial to SUVs, Brenderups,
subjectively judged equine activities, slick horse magazines, staying
clean, being seen, brand names, spiritual silliness, and
anthropomorphism. Some of them know a little about discipline-specific
riding, but none of them know much *about* a horse. It's fairly common
to find yuppiescum who can get pinned in a rail class, yet don't know
how to lead a horse. Personally, I wouldn't give you a nickel for a
carload of 'em if they were bringing a dollar a pound.
>
>>Are you attempting to prove that the consistent use of logical
>>fallacies has become de rigueur in the politically correct newspeak
>>of suburban yuppiescum?...
>
>Nope... Your interpretation of the intention and content of my post, >not mine.
My take was dead-on: I read what you wrote.
>And, as an aside, we do not live in a suburban area...
>agricultural/ranching/farming in N. CA...
How nice for you.
>I guess it's the disagreeing with your highness, 'musician in CA'
>and again, your interpretation that threw you off??...
Although it's their prime habitat, yuppiescum don't necessarily have to
live in the suburbs. In your case, what gave you away was your
consistent use of logical fallacies, attempted obfuscation, and
inability to compose a reasoned response relative to a claim that
alfalfa is the best thing one can feed a horse under some circumstances.
In point of fact, alfalfa is the *best* thing one can feed a horse under
some circumstances.
>Yes, Tom, Tex-Mex is great music...
See? We can agree on something.
>And yes, 'neo-impressionist' folk music can trace it's roots and
>influences back, way back to Celtic roots, which yes, does include
>France...
Brittany maybe, but not all of France. Y'see, I like Alan Stivell's
music damn near as much as that of Little Joe y La Família.
Terry von Gease
Kamm2MacD wrote in message <20001211145343...@ng-mi1.aol.com>...
>>>Hmm, I've been listening to you for years Tom, and at times some of >what
>>>I hear is about as enlightening as what I hear from my beer
>>>totin', dog kickin', belchin' and grinnin' bubba cowboy
>>>neighbor...
>
>Stovall wrote.....
>> Bubba might be a brilliant
>>horseman; he might be a gunsel of the first magnitude: the only thing
>>discernible about his horsemanship from
> >your description is your
>>prejudice.
>
>No prejudice here..... and no, he is not a brilliant horseman. Two bony
horses
>with untreated pigeon fever,
...bulletin bulletin bulletin...
One does not treat pigeon fever, one can only wait for it to go away.
...back to the contention currently in progress...
--
Terry
We're forever grateful that the telephone
wasn't invented by Alexander Graham Siren
Kamm2MacD
>...bulletin bulletin bulletin...
>One does not treat pigeon fever, one can only wait for it to go away.
Yes, one does treat pigeon fever, Terry.... some horses require antibiotics and
drains if the abscesses are internal. And at LEAST, open and draining
abscesses should be flushed and cleaned daily. Tsk, you should know that.
Schmdthaus
<<One does not treat pigeon fever, one can only wait for it to go away.>>
For the record, some veterinarians DO treat pigeon fever. I was surprised, as
the one case of the nasty crap I had to deal with, close to twenty years ago,
was untreated except for the veterinarian making an incision on the point of
the shoulder, to draw the infection up from the hoof area on a mare who had
just been diagnosed with a broken coffin bone. His technique worked, and the
only care after the boil burst was to keep the incision open and flush it out
with a betadine solution until it healed. I was advised to make sure that all
clothes that came in contact with the wound were sterilized or disposed of,
that I washed my hands and boots before entering uninfected horses' areas. A
major PITA.
However, a friend's horse was recently diagnosed with pigeon fever, and the
treatment was oral antibiotics and hot packs. The boil didn't have to burst
(apparently the antibiotics killed the infection), and so chances of infecting
other animals was reduced, if not eliminated.
Laurie
CMNewell
wrote:
>Brittany maybe, but not all of France. Y'see, I like Alan Stivell's
>music damn near as much as that of Little Joe y La Família.
A l'Olympia is one of the best record albums ever made.
John Hasler
> Lucy did wear a wool blanket out grazing in falling weather.
Homemade blankets such as those I described are not intended for turnout.
I would be very unlikely to turn a horse out in a blanket at all. The
feed-sack blanket is a cooler, and the Army blanket is suitable for warming
a sick horse.