Hollowing tool questions
Fred S Fahrner
wood and looking for that special tool that will give me a clean inside cut.
These are not completely closed forms.
I have used the Ellsworth set. Nice heavy duty but don't get a clean smooth
cut. Also have the Woodcut 'Mighty Midget'. It seems a little better but
clogs up a lot.
Looking at the 'Termite Tool' (Woodcraft). Does anyone have a comparison
with the two tools mentioned above?
Is there another tool I should be considering like perhaps the Sorby boring
system?
Duncan McEwan
Woodworker. I know that the Termite is not reviewed, but most of the other
major systems are covered, including the Midget. Review says the Midget is
not much use over 6" over the tool rest. The magazine was worth buying (to
me) just for the review article.
Regards,
Duncan
Fred S Fahrner wrote in message
<7ca02g$ccg0$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
michel casas
Fred S Fahrner wrote:
> I'm turning large (10" - 14' tall) natural edge hollow vessels of myrtle
> wood and looking for that special tool that will give me a clean inside cut.
> These are not completely closed forms.
> I have used the Ellsworth set. Nice heavy duty but don't get a clean smooth
> cut. Also have the Woodcut 'Mighty Midget'. It seems a little better but
> clogs up a lot.
> Looking at the 'Termite Tool' (Woodcraft). Does anyone have a comparison
> with the two tools mentioned above?
> Is there another tool I should be considering like perhaps the Sorby boring
> system?
**************
Hi Fred,
i have both Midget and Termite.
Termite is quite good but only for small or medium bowls.
For large pieces i prefer EXOCET system, wich works great, with a "cobra" head.
One other way : purchase a "long bore Hutson Handle (36 or 48" handle/ 1/2" dia)
and fix the Midget on it.
It works great also.
For the purist, th Hook Tools work well also (Johansson Swedish forged tools)
but not so easy to use.
These tools need a lot of practice, get mervellous clatches but with light cuts
you can have "clean smooth cuts"
Have fun in Hollowing !
Cordialement,
Michel
***Le sage montre la lune, les imbeciles regardent le doigt***
dick...@fast.net
"Fred S Fahrner" <FAH...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> I'm turning large (10" - 14' tall) natural edge hollow vessels of myrtle
> wood and looking for that special tool that will give me a clean inside cut.
> These are not completely closed forms.
> I have used the Ellsworth set. Nice heavy duty but don't get a clean smooth
> cut. Also have the Woodcut 'Mighty Midget'. It seems a little better but
> clogs up a lot.
> Looking at the 'Termite Tool' (Woodcraft). Does anyone have a comparison
> with the two tools mentioned above?
> Is there another tool I should be considering like perhaps the Sorby boring
> system?
>
>
Fred, Try turning up the speed a notch or two and slow down the movement of
the tool tip. The more rpms per cut, the smoother it will be. If you can't
get your hand in the opening of the vessel to sand it, don't expect it to
look like a sanded surface. Dick Tuttle
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
Dee Smith
I have the Stewart system, which Sorby copied, and for smoothing the ridges
you get using the Ellsworth tools, you use the wide half-round bit that
turns the tool into a scraper. It works very well. You can also make your
own bits from old planer knives and have any shape you want.
Of course the Stewart system duplicates the function of the Ellsworth tools
and adds some additional features.
There are a number of other boring bar systems which can do similar things
but the point to solving your immediate problem is to use a wider bit.
Fred S Fahrner wrote:
>
> I'm turning large (10" - 14' tall) natural edge hollow vessels of myrtle
> wood and looking for that special tool that will give me a clean inside cut.
> These are not completely closed forms.
> I have used the Ellsworth set. Nice heavy duty but don't get a clean smooth
> cut. Also have the Woodcut 'Mighty Midget'. It seems a little better but
> clogs up a lot.
> Looking at the 'Termite Tool' (Woodcraft). Does anyone have a comparison
> with the two tools mentioned above?
> Is there another tool I should be considering like perhaps the Sorby boring
> system?
--
Dee Smith
PIT, Packaging and Integration Testing
IBM Austin, Tx
ljhgv
good things to say about it. The cutting tip[ clogged a lot at the start but
when I slowwed the lathe down a bit this problem disappeared. The tips stay
sharp forever too, even on dry timbers - which by the way is another
advantage. Many of the end grain hollowing tools are not suitable for use
with dry timbers.
There is a review of the tool in the April issue of "woodturning". The
smaller version of the too I bought cost about £90 which I suppose is around
$130. I use it quite a bit for bowl turning or platter turning of dry
timbers.
Fran in Ireland
fr...@clubi.ie
Dee Smith
Sorby copied Dennis Stewert's boring bar system. They in fact produce their
boring bar system under license from Dennis Stewart.
I apologize to Peter Gill and Robert Sorby for making a misleading statement
about one of their products. I'll try to be more careful with my choice of
words in the future.
Dee
Spydaman
You're a good sport, Dee. :-)
Spy
Tom Albers
drill rod can be drilled at the end and this hole drilled and tapped to
hold standard 1/4" square metal working bits. Also scrapper blades of
various ,makes.
Tom Albers
PukeTarget
You might be interested in the Lyle Jamieson tool.
email Lyle at ar...@tcnet.org
I use it with good results.
another option is making a tool- I made a boring bar by purchasing drill stock
from a localsteel supplier. 3/4 drill stock ground on the end to a scraper
profile works fairly well.
I hope that info is helpful.
Bill Sullivan
President-Woodturners of Southwest Florida
johnj...@mindspring.com
handle as well and I've done several 15-16 inch pieces with it. Not long ago
I would have laughed at it, but I wouldn't want to do large pieces without
it now. Unless I had one of Hugh Mckay's setups. I had one, but they made me
give it back.
Chatter shouldn't be a problem, however I usually use 3/16 cutters with
FRESH burrs, and I don't use tips slanted down, or set the tool handle at an
angle. Everything really works best if it is all in a horizontal plane,
contrary to Lyle's instructions.. I frequently use my favorite hook tools in
the handle. For regular scale turning I continue to use Stewart handles with
custom hook and straight tools-quicker and easier.
John Jordan
Rpturner wrote in message <19990323194403...@ng-fw1.aol.com>...
>Missed the start of this thread, but I have used the Jamison device.
After
>6", I encountered a lot of chatter and noise.
>Frank Sudol suggested the Oneway system. It is a one inch bar and costs
twice
>as much.
>
>I found the noise just too disruptive.
>
>
>Richard Preston
>RPTu...@aol.com
>WoodTurners Anonymous of Richmond, Va
Rpturner
Jon Schilling
seeing it.
I want to mention the Nichols Torque Arresting Boring Bar system that was
featured recently in
a woodworking mag. I've owned at least one size of the Nichols boring
bar for 2 years.
I now have 3 sizes of it and I can honestly and safely say that there are no
extreme size limits to its use.
The largest size which I don't own will hollow a 49" piece. That is the
largest hollow form that I have seen
turned with it. It was on display at San Antonio at the AAW symposium.
For stuff under maybe 8" dia, and an opening of under 1/2 or 3/4" I'd
continue to use the tools on the
market, but for anything larger I use the Nichols system.
Torque is nonexistant to the turner. You can manage control with two
fingers, but for tacticle feel
both hands are recommended. The surface of the walls is left smoother than
with other cutters.
The system supplies 3 cutters and as many articulating extensions as you
wish to purchase for a size and shape.
I have no affiliation or connection with Nichols Mfg, and receive nothing
from them.
I, stated before, enjoy getting good safe tools into folks shops.
As those of you know that own the famous original boring bar system they are
not for the faint of heart or the less robust person. They do a fine job
and I don't knock their quality nor ability to do the job, just their
diffuculty of use paticularly for the inexperienced.
The daughter of a friend of mine has turned a 36 or 38" hollow piece that
was 16" deep. She has several
other items also turned with the Nichols system.
You could find out about it @ http//members.aol.com/lathebldr/
Regards,
--
Jon Schilling
Ridgefield, Wa USA (10 miles north of Portland, Ore)
PukeTarget <puket...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990318230218...@ng100.aol.com...
Dee Smith
When you refer to "hook tools", are you talking about a cutter similar to
a ring tool or are you talking about a tool extension used to reach the
underside of a shoulder in a hollow vessel? Have you ever tried a hook
cutter in a hollow vessel? How did it work?
Dee
johnj...@mindspring.com wrote in part:
>
> contrary to Lyle's instructions.. I frequently use my favorite hook tools in
> the handle. For regular scale turning I continue to use Stewart handles with
> custom hook and straight tools-quicker and easier.
>
> John Jordan
Bruno Melli
: I want to mention the Nichols Torque Arresting Boring Bar system that was
: featured recently in a woodworking mag.
The current issue of American Woddworking has a review of deep
hollowing tools.
bruno.
johnj...@mindspring.com
use 3/16 square (scraper) tips almost exclusively. Hook or ring tools,
while they can work well in some instances, are bevel rubbing tools and that
becomes pretty difficult when working through very small openings. I usually
tell people if they understand hook/ring tools well enough to make their own
they MIGHT be able to use them. The only people I've ever seen with any real
skill level make their own. They can be fun in end grain bowls etc.
John Jordan
Dee Smith wrote in message <36F90EBF...@austin.ibm.com>...
Darrell Feltmate
Hook tools are a ball to use inside hollow forms turned endgrain. Shavings
come out instead of dust. Or at least shavings pile up inside instead of
dust. You still have to clean them out. Drawbacks are that hook tools cut
fast at slow speeds and it takes some getting used to; shavings are a tad
harder to clean out than dust; catches are a beaut at times. I have gone to
a 1/2" shaft after bending a 3/8". However, John is right, if you want to
try them, make your own. It's easy and fun. Fred did an article on it a
while ago in More Woodturning. If you don't have it I can repost it here.
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Jerry Mullikin
If Fred doesn't have a problem with it, I sure would like to see a posting of
his article on hook tools. Just now beginning to get into turning hollow
vessels. Many thanks.
Jerry Mullikin
Jon Schilling
to use it.
I am proficient with all the rest of the Stewart system's tools, cutters,
scrapers, etc, but didn't graduate up
to using the hook tool.
I have used a ring tool and seen them used in hollowing. I didn't use it
long enough to get a feel
for its userfriendlyness, but it did cut cleanly and was aggressive if you
changed the angle of
cut.
None of the above were done the torque arresting tool rest like John Nichols
makes.
His tools were reviewed in the American Woodworker as someone else posted.
The hook tool is a very old tool, I think originating in Sweden, but maybe
not. You see them in turner's
shops in the Scandanavian countries.
The wall surfaces produced by the Nichols cutter is quite smooth and then
its no effort to clean the walls up
with the scrapers that attach to the boring bars.
--
Jon Schilling
Ridgefield, Wa USA (10 miles north of Portland, Ore)
Dee Smith <dees...@austin.ibm.com> wrote in message
news:36F90EBF...@austin.ibm.com...
James J. Momenee-DuPrie
Fred Holder
I don't remember which issue Darrell is referring to so will have to hunt it up
in a few days and post it either here or at my web site, will let you all know
where I put it.
Mostly, however, hook tools are simply gouges with the handle put on different.
As John says, they are bevel rubbing tools and the edge cuts just like a gouge.
Because the cutting edge is 90 degrees to the handle and is placed on the end of
the handle, it allows you to get into places that you could never reach with a
regular gouge. That is one of the reasons that they cut so clean. They also have
the advantage that they can be offset a ways so that you can reach areas not
easily accessable with other tools.
Like John says, most of the people who use hook tool very much also make their
own. Why? Well so far as I know there is no one manufacturing them today. Back
in the spring pole lathe days, the hook tool was a regular part of the tool
roll. Of course, then the fellow either made the tools himself or had a local
blacksmith make them for him.
Several years ago at the joint AAW/Utah Woodturning symposium, I don't remember
the exact year, I saw a Swedish fellow hollowing small vases with hook tools. He
made his own and also sold them. I purchased a set, but never did manage to make
a nice little vase, like he did so easily. They were put away in a drawer and
I've not tried them for several years. Really should try them again. He used
three tools each bend over a little more than the others to completely hollow
these little vases. They cut very clean for him.
Fred Holder
<http://www.fholder.com/>
In article <36F9C3C9...@ibm.net>, Jerry says...
michel casas
Fred Holder wrote:
> Hello Jerry,
> ..............................
> Like John says, most of the people who use hook tool very much also make their
> own. Why? Well so far as I know there is no one manufacturing them today. Back
> in the spring pole lathe days, the hook tool was a regular part of the tool
> roll. Of course, then the fellow either made the tools himself or had a local
> blacksmith make them for him.
**************
Hi Fred,
You can find some Hook Tools to buy from a Swedish manufacturer "JOHANSON"
I think Craft Supplies USA sells them
It's a set of 3 tool (short, medium and long) . You can purchase the set or only
one or two
the prices are around $ 65 for the set and if i remember $25 each tool separate.
But these tools are for little pieces because their length is only 6/7" and dia 7
or 8 mm...
One other hollowing tool is "Ring Tools with cut contoller " (Craft Supplies uk)
which are
stronger and longer. Not a Hook, a ring but with a little round piece in it which
does'nt allow
catches.
The length is around 20/25" (with handle) and dia 12/14 mm
I use this system since 5 or 6 years with satisfaction, specially in "blind
hollowing".
Price is around $70.
But i prefer The exocet system, more efficient.
Cordialement,
Michel Casas
johnj...@mindspring.com
was doing very small opening pieces at the time and thought he was going to
change my life. Those little vases were the ONLY shape he could make that
way. Each of the three little tools was inserted and worked around until it
had cut all the wood it could reach, until all three tools had done their
work. He was a master of the hook and ring tools however-a lifetime of
knowledge there.
John Jordan
Fred Holder wrote in message <7ddk8h$6...@edrn.newsguy.com>...
>Hello Jerry,
>
>I don't remember which issue Darrell is referring to so will have to hunt
it up
>in a few days and post it either here or at my web site, will let you all
know
>where I put it.
>
>Mostly, however, hook tools are simply gouges with the handle put on
different.
>As John says, they are bevel rubbing tools and the edge cuts just like a
gouge.
>Because the cutting edge is 90 degrees to the handle and is placed on the
end of
>the handle, it allows you to get into places that you could never reach
with a
>regular gouge. That is one of the reasons that they cut so clean. They also
have
>the advantage that they can be offset a ways so that you can reach areas
not
>easily accessable with other tools.
>
>Like John says, most of the people who use hook tool very much also make
their
>own. Why? Well so far as I know there is no one manufacturing them today.
Back
>in the spring pole lathe days, the hook tool was a regular part of the tool
>roll. Of course, then the fellow either made the tools himself or had a
local
>blacksmith make them for him.
>
Darrell Feltmate
Fred replied that he would post the article on his web page when he finds
it. If you have any questions, let me know. In the article I describe how to
make a hook and a holder for it. One of the things I have found is a 3/8"
steel rod is too slim for the strength needed in a catch. It may be exciting
but it is still a bend. Now I use at least 1/2" and I am thinking of going
to 3/4" rod for deep hollowing and maybe adding a depth adjusment to prevent
catches. It's a thought.
Hooks are possible to use for hollowing side grain but only by braver people
than I. Catch city!!! So I wanted an Ellsworth style cutting tip or two. I
took a 3/15" steel cutter available from any metal lathe supplier, cut it in
two, and fitted one end for the hook handle. Bingo! Instand Ellsworth. Now
if I only had his skill :-).
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Jerry Mullikin wrote in message <36F9C3C9...@ibm.net>...
johnj...@mindspring.com
I do sometimes use the tools from my Stewart handles in Lyle's handle. Most
often I use the angle tool from Lyle with a 3/16 straight bit-whatever will
reach. I DON'T use the little swivel tip that hangs down.
Most turners don't keep that fresh burr fresh! I usually alternate between
the grinder and a diamond hone and sharpen at the first sign of chatter or
loss of cutting action.
All of the large pieces at Baltimore were turned with Lyle's handle. I'll
give you the preferred customer discount on most any piece.....
John Jordan
Rpturner wrote in message <19990325204451...@ng13.aol.com>...
>
>Hi John,
>Do you mean you put the Stewart steel bars and Hooker tool into Lyle's
handle?
>
>Do you find that your students fail to grind FRESH burrs as often as they
>should?
>
>It was nice to see you in Baltimore and I really wanted several of your
pieces.
> I may have to go back to work so I can buy all the nice turnings I see.
>
>Thanks,
>Richard Preston
>
>> Not long ago
>>I would have laughed at it, but I wouldn't want to do large pieces without
>>it now. Unless I had one of Hugh Mckay's setups. I had one, but they made
me
>>give it back.
>>
>>Chatter shouldn't be a problem, however I usually use 3/16 cutters with
>>FRESH burrs, and I don't use tips slanted down, or set the tool handle at
an
>>angle. Everything really works best if it is all in a horizontal plane,
Rpturner
What I was using was a clone someone made based upon his impression of Lyle's
system.
So, please ignore my comments/impression and accept my appologies.
Having read John's comments and read the article in Am. Woodworker about
several hollowing tools, Lyle's system looks more interesting now.
Thanks,
Richard
Rpturner
>handle as well and I've done several 15-16 inch pieces with it.<<
Hi John,