Powermatic 4224 Lathe
donald s. baker
or experience with this one??
Chips
Dave Schell
> I am seriously considering buying this model lathe. Anyone have any advise
> or experience with this one??
>
> Chips
I've only seen one in a local woodworking store. It is a heavy duty,
well-built lathe - but that there is the extent of my knowledge.
However, it you are approaching the high $3K price range, have you
looked at the Serious Lathe at seriouslathe.com? They just lowered
their price to $3995. Again, I have no extensive knowledge of it,
never even some one in person, but it the pictures on their website
are worth taking a look at. Good luck.
Charles A. Culver
buy it all over again. It is very heavy, which is both a blessing and a curse.
At 950 lbs., you will NOT enjoy getting it off the shipping pallet, but you
sure will love the stability!
In a nutshell, for the price, or even at any price, it would still be my lathe
of choice!
If you want more information or opinions, e-mail me off-line for my
conclusions.
Charlie
Ripsawed
I too am looking to up grade. I looked at the Serious Lathe and
communicated with the owner. Drawback to me was the NO OUTBOARD TURNING.
Great price and great machine except for that.
Now looking at the Oneway 2436..Whew, lot of money!!! What kind of money is
involved with the powermatic 4224? I have friends that have them and they
are quite happy. Can't be 5 grand like the ONEWAY!!!
Lewis
"Charles A. Culver" <ca...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:3CC95BAE...@adelphia.net...
David Peebles
From my point of view the biggest advantage to having the outboard capacity
is that you don't have the lathe bed in the way when hollowing. I almost
always turn the outside of the piece inboard, and then move to the outboard
side to hollow out the piece. I feel I have more freedom of movement on the
outboard side. I do have the ability to reverse the rotation of the lathe,
so I am turning (for lack of a better word) right handed at all times. I
have become very dependent on this technique, and find it one of the best
features of my Oneway.
Best wishes,
Dave
Dave Peebles
Lyons, Ohio
Revolutions Woodturning
www.bowlturner.com
> What would you need the outboard capabilities for? If it's to turn
> larger than 25" dia. pieces Serious does have a 35" swing machine.
>
> Are outboard capabilities provided as a sales incentive when folks
> rarely use them and, if one was to mount a turning larger than the
> capacity over the ways, is the machine being overly stressed - no matter
> the brand name?
>
> In my short conversation with Bernie at Serious, he indicated something
> on the lines of outboard is a compromise solution when you really should
> be looking at a larger lathe designed for such work.
>
> _____
> AAW National & Local chapters member:
> Northwest Woodturners, Tigard, Oregon
> Cascade Woodturners, Portland, Oregon
> _____
Ron Grossl
> or experience with this one??
>
> Chips
Chips, I just bought this lathe about 3 weeks ago and I love it.
Plenty heavy and powerful enough. I bought it from southern tool
company for $ 3367 including shipping. It arrived about 5 days after
I place the order. Southern Tool was very helpful in making sure I
knew when it was shipped and supplying me with a tracking number. I
highly recommend them and the lathe. The url is
http://www.southern-tool.com//store/powermatic_24_lathe.html
Good luck
Ron Grossl
David Wade
Did you go research a series of lathes before you settled on the Oneway.
If so, would you share your findings/opinions with us?
I am about a year (I hope) from buying a big lathe. I have exactly the
same interest that you have in being able to hollow out a vessel face-on
without bending over the ways. After going the web research route the
Oneway 2436 keeps coming up as the lathe of choice, closely ahead of a
Poolewood 3000 and VB36. Mind you, since I expect this machine to be the
last lathe I ever buy, and still be running strong 20 or so years from
now, I have taken cost out of the equation. In 2015 I doubt I will care
what the machine cost me way back in 2003.
The drawback that I see of the Oneway is that I would probably want to
start a turning between centers to establish the mounting point for a
faceplate or tenon for a chuck and then move it to the outboard side to
complete. The other two would let me rig a derrick over the lathe and
remount with very little moving of the blank. It seems to make sense
now, but may not in the real world.
A friend has a Stubby 1000 coming and I hope to play with it to see if
the configurable bed collapses enough to permit face-on hollowing. As
yet, I don't know enough about the Powermatic 4224 to put it on the
list.
Thanks,
another David
Mary Ann Mapili
Is it Versatility? Components? Durability? Reputation? ...
"David Wade" <wade...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3CCA1F2A...@att.net...
Richard Preston
Are you sure you can buy a PM for $2500? Cutting Edge offers one for $3800,
free freight.
The Oneways run from $4200 to $4555 plus freight depending upon shortbed or
longbed and upon the 20 or 24" clearance.
Having turned on both, there are notable differences. Oneway's technical
support has been excellent upon the 4 occasions when I have had to call them
over 56 years. The PM's headstock is a large rectangle which gets in the way of
some cuts. The Oneway's bed is smoother and the toolrest assemble is superior
and glides better when properly lubricated with WD-40. The remote stop/start
on the Oneway is very convenient. It appears that the PM has a remote stop, but
no start - important to me. The Oneway comes with a better live center and
includes cones. The handle on the Oneway's tailstock is very helpful when
taking the tailstock off the lathe. I like the swinging pendant for the
controls, as it can be positioned at the tailstock or headstock, where it can
be close when turning outboard. So, yes, I think the Oneway has many more
thoughts put into it. The vacumn chuck system is excellent and I have heard
raves about the bowl center saver system recently offered.
Oneway does so much more than just market a lathe.
But you can turn a great bowl on either lathe. Don't forget to examine the
Stubby also.
Regards,
Richard
David Wade
stages of research, not the later stages.]
A. I see Powermatic as a tool manufacturing company that includes a
lathe in its offering. I see Oneway as a tool manufacturing company
that specializes in woodturning. As such I have a higher expectation of
more thoughtful engineering and better user-orientation.
B. I can see the variety of options I would probably select for a
Oneway, such as for outboard turning. For the Powermatic I see a list
of part numbers. Can anybody tell me what their outboard accessory looks
like, how it attaches, and how well it works?
C. To reiterate, cost is deliberately removed from the equation. I want
the right lathe, period. Fifteen or so years from now I won't miss the
two grand but I will be really pissed if I have spent all that time even
slightly less satisfied with a 'better' buy.
D. Before I make the decision I hope to get to touch, fondle, and maybe
turn on a Oneway, Stubby, Powermatic, Poolewood, and VB36 - if I can
find one near enough to bribe the owner. Also, the 2003 AAW Symposium is
in Pasadena, CA, a short trip from my home. I plan on being a nuisance
to all the big equipment exhibitors to achieve the aforementioned.
E. Oh, the Oneway is a nicer color.... <G>
In general, the decision ain't made yet. The new shop ain't built yet.
The property behind my house where I plan to put the shop ain't bought
yet, and won't be for about a year until a politically-driven
environmental impact report is prepared for a bike trail that the city
isn't going to build there. Oops - I'm getting off topic.
Good luck
David
Russ Fairfield
when bought my Oneway 2036 in 1996 at Highland Hardware in Atlanta.
The then new Powermatic 3520 was available for a side by side
comparison with the Oneway, the new General with VS drive, and the
Conover, and I had the opportunity to turn some wood on all of them
that day.
I didn't even consider the Woodfast or Vicmark because I would have
had to go to Utah to see one of them, and I was living in Florida at
the time. The VB36 was new on the market and Craft Supplies had yet to
have the first one in stock (talk about sight unseen).
The Powermatic came out at the bottom in several categories that were
important to me. It did not have reversing, nor a spindle lock, nor
indexing. The indexing was available for an additional $400, and the
others not at all. These features were standard on the Oneway,
General, and Conover. Powermatic has added these as standard features
since that time.
I didn't consider the Conover at the time because it wasn't versatile
enough for the different types of work that I was doing or planned to
do, I wanted the ability to do outboard turning for hollowing, and it
is only a 16" lathe. The headstock could be moved to the other end of
the lathe, but it was a difficult task that required moving the
headstock and motor separately, and the tool rest lock being under the
ways was awkward to use. If I were going to buy a lathe for spindle
turning at the time, the Conover would have been the choice and it
still is. Since my retirement 3-years ago, I have been doing a lot of
spindle turning for architectural, furniture, and piano restorations,
and I have purchased a Conover lathe that is dedicated to this use. I
have it set up with 60" between centers and two banjos so that I can
use full length tool rests. It is an excellent lathe and its DC drive
is the smoothest of any drive on any lathe at any price.
The General was the same old 12" lathe that everyone had been putting
riser blocks on to make it a 20" machine, only they had made the riser
blocks a permanent part of the lathe, and they added the VS drive. The
stand under it still rattled all of the time, and the outboard turning
ability was a clunky add-on (my opinion) with a different spindle
thread that made it impossible to use. I wanted the ability to hollow
turn without having to sit on the lathe bed like I had been doing with
the old General lathe (12" with riser blocks) that I had. That made
the choice as one between the Oneway and the Powermatic. There were
several design problems with the Powermatic that were immediately
obvious from observation and turning on it: the fit and finish were
very rough with poor quality machined surfaces compared to the others;
the headstock casting was a square box shape with a short spindle
extension that made it impossible to turn on the backside of anything
that was chucked in the lathe; the headstock and tail stock centers
did not meet and the spindle and tailstock bores were on intersecting
centerlines rather than the same one; the sliding headstock was a nice
feature but the locking mechanism was too weak to hold it in place
anywhere along the lathe bed without using a hammer; the tool rest
lock had a nasty habit of not breaking loose when I wanted to move it;
the thickness of the ways was variable along the length of the lathe
which made for poor locking of the tool rest and a handle that was too
high when it was locked in a thin spot; the tailstock lock wasn't
strong enough to hold it in place against the force of a live-center
without using a hammer.
There were some other differences that were not so obvious: Morse
tapers that were as rough as corn cobs inside as opposed to ground
surfaces; a spindle shaft that was turned only at the ends so it was
unbalanced and vibrated at high speed with nothing attached to it;
threads on the slindle that were a tight fit for those on their own
and others faceplates and chucks; a handwheel that was too small and
too close to the headstock to be of any use; no means of locking the
chuck to the spindle (not needed if you couldn't run it backwards);
and the spindle threads had an obvious runout and wobble because they
were not in line with the spindle shaft. I could have lived with all
of the others, but this last one was totally unacceptable.
Was all of this worth the $1000 difference in price at the time? I
thought that the indexing, reversing, and spindle lock alone were
worth the extra cost. That was a value judgment, but one that I was
willing to make because I thought that the Powermatic had problems
that I should not be finding, and features that should not be missing
on a $3600 (the price at that time) lathe, and a spindle thread
problem that shouldn't be fopund on any machine at any price.
There were other problems that surfaced after people started using the
lathe. Castings and locking mechanisms were breaking, lathes were
shipped with bent shafts, and oversized, long, or short spindle
threads. Some had threads were the wrong pitch. Powermatic replaced
the parts and have added the reversing, spindle lock, and the indexing
as standard features. But, it has taken 7 years, a new generation of
buyers, and a large reduction in price before Powermatic has gained
acceptance in the lathe market (my opinion).
The first 4224 lathes that were imported were sent to the Texas Turn
or Two for use as demo lathes, and they had problems with breaking
castings. Apparently they have fixed those problems, but......
From what I can tell by looking at the lathe recently, the new 4224
does not share all of the quality problems of the earlier 3520. But
the headstock casting is too large to turn on the backside of
something in the chuck. I have not used one of them, only looked at
it, so I cannot say anything about the head and tailstock alignments,
or how well the locks work. The fit and finish is still not very good,
and I don't know if that says anything about the rest of the lathe or
not. I would approach one of them cautiously and would make a test
drive before considering it for a purchase. A bad reputation will live
forever.
Because of the problems with the old 3520 and the early 4224 lathes,
there is a risk associated with purchasing a Powermatic. Have the
problems been corrected? And, if they have, were the bad ones pulled
from the market?? None of those risks are there with the Oneway or
other lathes. My personal opinion is that the Oneway is a risk-free
purchase that is still worth the additional $1000, but that is a value
judgement that not everyone would want to make.
Russ Fairfield
Post Falls, Idaho
David Peebles
I was all set to respond to your questions when I decided to read the rest
of the thread.
When I saw Russ Fairfield's reply I suddenly realized that there was
absolutely nothing I could add to his thoughts. I only wish I could express
my thoughts as well as Russ has.
I will say that I was all set to buy the Woodfast short bed lathe. I had
done some research and felt it was the best buy for me at the time. I had
turned on one at John Jordan's and I really like it. The Oneway was the one
I had lusted after, but I just didn't have the money for it. So just as I
was about to order one, I came into an unexpected amount of money. It
enabled me to go for the Oneway. I have not been sorry since. I think there
are some very good lathes out now, but for me, I'm very happy with my
choice. It has been a joy to turn on everyday for the past four years.
Dave
Dave Peebles
Lyons, Ohio
Revolutions Woodturning
www.bowlturner.com
"David Wade" <wade...@att.net> wrote in message
news:3CCA1F2A...@att.net...
David Wade
Russ' reply was exceptional. Although there has been time for them to
clean up their act, who wants to be the one to verify it? One thing I
did like about the Oneway was that narrow headstock. I am waiting to see
the Stubby's headstock up close. However, I think the short list is
getting shorter quickly.
Anyone out there know if there is a Oneway 2436 in Southern California I
could peek at?
Mary Ann Mapili
"Richard Preston" <rptu...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020427122443...@mb-fm.aol.com...
Leif Thorvaldson
Leif
"Russ Fairfield" <grus...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8f06cacf.02042...@posting.google.com...
Steve Tiedman
Powermatic- built in a big factory a million (exaggeration) at a time by dirt
cheap labor in Taiwan, profits going to the company in Tennessee. Remember,
this lathe originally (with a few differences) white in color with a Jet label,
at a significantly lower price if I recall correctly. If anyone remembers the
full history of this, please remind me and everyone else.
How's that for a fast and dirty response. Yes, it is overly simplictic, so
please don't crucify me for it. Yes, both use high-falutin' motors and drives.
Yes, both weigh a ton. Yes, both are *designed and engineered* to high
standards. But one of the greatest differences is whose hands are building it.
Steve.
--
Steve Tiedman
s...@mninter.net
Minnesota, USA
------------------
The Flowers
news:3CCC0FD7...@mninter.net...
> Oneway- built one at a time by machinists in Canada.
>
> Powermatic- built in a big factory a million (exaggeration) at a time by
dirt
> cheap labor in Taiwan, profits going to the company in Tennessee.
Remember,
> this lathe originally (with a few differences) white in color with a Jet
label,
> at a significantly lower price if I recall correctly. If anyone remembers
the
> full history of this, please remind me and everyone else.
Steve, don't hold back. Tell us how you *REALLY* feel about a Oneway vs. a
Powermatic. ;-)
On a personal note I've lusted (yes, actually lusted) after a Oneway ever
since I saw one demoed at the Lee Valley main store over 7 years ago.
Regretfully I've always considered them far out of my price category. Maybe
someday that will change, but I can't see it happening anytime soon. <sigh>
--
Bill Flowers
Clearwater, FL
Peter Teubel
>On a personal note I've lusted (yes, actually lusted) after a Oneway ever
>since I saw one demoed at the Lee Valley main store over 7 years ago.
>Regretfully I've always considered them far out of my price category. Maybe
>someday that will change, but I can't see it happening anytime soon. <sigh>
I have had the pleasure of turning on a Oneway and it was truly great. I also had the pleasure of turning on a well-built Nova 3K
(1.5DC HP VS) system and it was almost as great. It was on a well designed 800+lb stand and vibration-free (with a little help
from the VS drive). While my Jet 1236 has served me well to learn on, I've outgrown it in short order (i.e. 4 months of daily
turning).
So while I would love to have a Oneway, I could/will certainly be VERY content (happy, actually) with a good Nova 3K. No, I don't
like the DVR. I saw it in use at a local Woodcraft shop and it takes too damn long to vary the speed. Give me a potentiometer any
day.
Peter Teubel
Milford, MA
http://asthewoodturns.tripod.com
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Arch
the DVR of upper class lathes. Questions seem to continually arise with
both. Buying a new lathe, even if cost is no factor, is getting to be
like buying a new car or home with all our old and questionable
loyalties, multiple decisions, conflicting advice, iffy sales people and
discouraging maker's corporate ethics combining to take the joy out,
making us wary of taking the plunge. Probably one reason many of turn
on our old lathes, drive our old cars and add on to our old houses. Oh
well, Arch
Fortiter,
Arch
are, once you have a swivelling headstock, it's like variable speed or
power windows. You'll never be satisfied doing without the convenience
of swivelling compared to the hassles of reverse turning, outboarding,
sliding the headstock, excessive swing or 'riding' the ways. (side
saddle for some,:-) Arch
Fortiter,
Rusty Myers
TTT. Woodcraft had on 4224 there, but kept it in the vendor area. We
canabalized the 3rd 3520 for parts for the two in the demo area. Plus some
creative work with drill and tap...
--
Rusty Myers
Austin, TX
"Russ Fairfield" <grus...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8f06cacf.02042...@posting.google.com...
snip
>
> The first 4224 lathes that were imported were sent to the Texas Turn
> or Two for use as demo lathes, and they had problems with breaking
> castings. Apparently they have fixed those problems, but......
>
...
Russ Fairfield
and my memory.
Regardless of my error in model number, it should never have happened. Reports
of broken tool rests and banjos on Jet lathes have become a common subject for
messages on this Newsgroup. That should be a warning that something is wrong
with their quality control.
I am still not willing to take the risk, even though I could save $1000 with
the Powermatic.
Russ Fairfield
Post Falls, Idaho
As Arch said, it can make uis covet the old iron that we still keep going.
Lyn J. Mangiameli
Lyn
Tom Thorsen
on several occasions during classes I have taken. Over the past few
years, I have also been exposed hands-on to one-ways, vicmarcs and
woodfasts. Top of the line is one-way, they are mighty proud of their
machine. Finely tooled and justifiably worth the money. Both the
Vics and woodfasts are great values for the money, especially when you
can source them overseas or across the border and take advantage of
the exchange rate. My impression of the powermatics is that they are
the worst of the lot.
For the size of the machine, toolposts are too small a diameter, the
lock for the post keeps slipping and the post moves. Headstock is way
too big. This is a machine designed by engineers without input by
turners and it shows. Too many little things wrong to make it worth
the price.
Rusty Myers
standing next to one of them when the cast iron plate on the headstock lock
failed. A piece of it bounced off the floor and hit me in the leg. The
very alert guy next to me grabbed the headstock as is started to tilt off
the bed. We had locked down the headstock about five minutes before hand,
so it was a delayed failure. Just glad we were standing there otherwise we
would have found it in the morning lying on the concrete...
--
Rusty Myers
Austin, TX
"Russ Fairfield" <grus...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020428193345...@mb-ma.aol.com...
W.A. (Bill) Flowers
> I have had the pleasure of turning on a Oneway and it was truly great. I
also had the pleasure of turning on a well-built Nova 3K
> (1.5DC HP VS) system and it was almost as great. It was on a well designed
800+lb stand and vibration-free (with a little help
> from the VS drive). While my Jet 1236 has served me well to learn on, I've
outgrown it in short order (i.e. 4 months of daily
> turning).
>
> So while I would love to have a Oneway, I could/will certainly be VERY
content (happy, actually) with a good Nova 3K. No, I don't
> like the DVR. I saw it in use at a local Woodcraft shop and it takes too
damn long to vary the speed. Give me a potentiometer any
> day.
Although I've dreamt of a Oneway for years and, at the other end of the
spectrum, considered building (or having built) a custom lathe that is more
to my desires than any commercial lathe in the under $1500 category, I'll
probably end up buying a Nova 3000 with variable speed ultimately. As you
say, it is an excellent lathe for the money. When mated to an appropriate
stand it would likely do everything I really want of a lathe.
That doesn't stop me from dreaming of a Oneway though!
P.S. Swimming pool is being refinished with the work to complete tomorrow.
Pool deck gets redone (jackhammer out river rock and new surface laid down)
starting next week. For the money I could have bought almost any lathe
available, with $$$ left over. <sigh> But the kids can't swim in a lathe.
And I can't BBQ on it either.
Peter Teubel
>P.S. Swimming pool is being refinished with the work to complete tomorrow.
>Pool deck gets redone (jackhammer out river rock and new surface laid down)
>starting next week. For the money I could have bought almost any lathe
>available, with $$$ left over. <sigh> But the kids can't swim in a lathe.
>And I can't BBQ on it either.
The lathe would make an interesting rotisserie, though...
W.A. (Bill) Flowers
>
> The lathe would make an interesting rotisserie, though...
And that's why a DVR just won't do. If you turn chickens at 250RPM they fly
apart; a wing here, a leg there. But a VS lathe that can go slow will work
just fine! ;-)
David A. Carley
with a L-O2 feed flame. BBQ in about 15 seconds. Just remember to duck.
:)
-David
"W.A. (Bill) Flowers" <wflo...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:jSzz8.23328$iJ.1...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
W.A. (Bill) Flowers
news:ud023m1...@corp.supernews.com...
> I was thinking more along the lines of a suckling pig, doing about 3000
RPM,
> with a L-O2 feed flame. BBQ in about 15 seconds. Just remember to duck.
> :)
You've got to give warning before posting something like that. The visual
that your message invoked had me spewing water (thankfully I'd finished my
coffee for the day) all over my monitor and keyboard! Now I have to go
clean up the mess before something shorts.
Peter Teubel
know its done when the meat flies off the bone...
Laverne Lovatt
was involved in close tolerance engineering( aerospace perhaps) and also
had an interest in woodturning. This combination is why we have their
tools. Am I making this up or can someone elaborate on this story?
David Wade wrote in message <3CCB2EDD...@att.net>.... I see Oneway as