Architectural turning?
Owen Davies
about it as a business. Feels like it should be a steadier, more
profitable way to earn a living than most of what turners do. If anyone
could provide some insights into the market and earning potential, I'd
much appreciate anything you are willing to say about it.
Thanks.
Owen Davies
Fred Holder
I've done very little architectural turning, but have met severa people who do
it for a living. It is about the only type of woodturning that one can actually
make a decent living doing. There are a few people, like Mike Mahoney and
Richard Raffan, that make a living doing mostly bowls. For the most part, the
architectural turners don't seem to join the woodturning clubs, perhaps they
don't have time. From what I understand, the best way to get into it is to align
yourself with a number of architects and get them to recommend you.
Fred Holder
<http://www.fholder.com>
In article <8aednScUYuf...@adelphia.com>, Owen Davies says...
AHilton
it by the books, websites, articles, and general discussion from the AAW or
affiliate clubs. It's not the sexy stuff that gets talked about and
endlessly debated in the USA but it's what's being done by the majority of
turners all around the world. Silently and steadily for the most part.
Now, let's define the term here so I can get an idea of what you are really
meaning. What exactly do you mean by "Architectural" ? I've seen that
term relating to woodturning as meaning anywhere from chair rails to 18' x
16" columns to some of Ed Moulthrops' hollowforms. People define it
differently so that's why I ask.
Personally, I prefer to use "structural" and the people I do buisness with
perfer it too, even the architects. <g> I do light structural (columns up
to 6' tall and 12" diameter; Balusters, posts, Church Spires, newell posts,
railings, etc.) and I do furniture, which I classify differently but I guess
is structural too just on a small scale (rails, legs, stretchers, knobs,
etc.) and I also have a classification of "other" that you could put in
there too. I do production runs for some companies that need specialty
parts such as handles (big ones!) for their commercial products or forms for
molding and metal work.
It's not my main job by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a steady
income and it's fun. I can't say from experience whether it's a steadier
paycheck than the crafts or arts end of the spectrum because I'm just now
getting into really pushing those things of mine into the public. I have a
few galleries in the region handling those things but it's only been about
18 months. I've sold a few things and it's nice to get that lump sum
instead of actually working for it. <g> Relax guys. hehe
A good person to talk with or, even better, go see and take a class from is
Ernie Conover at http://www.conoverworkshops.com/index.htm regarding this.
I can't really tell you about the earning potential as it really seems to be
very geographical. Around here (Southwest Missouri), the styles of houses,
businesses, furniture and just everything is not about being "round". It's
all square. Everything. So there's not a whole lot of potential for
woodturners like there might be in an "architecturally round" area. Just
look around at the houses and furniture in the swap meets or flea markets,
etc. See what's there and if there's a lot of "roundness" in the area. The
best place around here is Branson. Lots of big houses and large buildings
trying to look like either New Orleans or Savannah, Georgia. Quite a few
"roundness" going on there and the money to actually pay for it. I get a
lot of work from the furniture end of it around here. Reproducing
great-grandma's chair rails or making custom stools for a house renovation
where the guy is putting in a wet bar in the basement. Stuff like that.
Basically, you're going to be making custom woodworking wages. Not bad but
not a fortune either. You'll likely be producing 10's of the exact same
object. It's rare to produce just one or two of something unless it's big
(like a column). You need a well equipped shop too. More of a woodworking
shop than just a woodturning shop with a lathe, bandsaw and maybe a drill
motor for powersanding <g>. You're going to have to find places to get wood
stock cheap, fast, and easy. That can be harder than it sounds. We're not
talking your local Home Depot here unless you want to pay to work instead of
the other way around. We're also not talking about the sawmill down by the
river either. You need to have a steady supply of the common local woods
that is dry, clear, and available year round and in every conceivable size
you can imagine. Best to know a or have your own kiln operator. Over the
long term, you save money but it's a loss in the beginning. There's all
kinds of things and it would fill a book (I'm sure somebody has already
written it) to know what you need in this kind of production woodturning.
This isn't like production bowl turning either. Maybe you'll get lucky and
just be making one style of table legs out of red oak for the rest of your
woodturning life. Likely, you won't. You'll be making whatever comes
through your shop door and you need to be ready for it because they'll want
it yesterday ... and 50 of them .... out of cypress (which isn't even close
to local here). <g>
You'll want to become best friends with building contractors (these are the
people that make the call to you when needed ... not the architects),
furniture restorers/re-finishers (they don't want to mess with producing
things especially lathe items if they need it), wood suppliers from the
sawmill to retail stores like Woodcraft (not only for supplies but because
people constantly ask them "can you make" or "who can do this for me"),
small furniture makers (they get some special requests sometimes ... you'll
not get their production services most likely), and even the Home Depots
types of stores (they get people wanting things sometimes too). Try the
local cabinet shops and woodworking shops to see if they need somebody (not
likely) or might be able to contract out some work to you (still not very
likely but better).
Architects are only good when you're doing really really high-end stuff or
very specialty types of things. They normally don't get down to the level
of the person actually making the stuff. They'll be talking to the
contractors. Only when something weird comes up (a spiraling stair case
support pole that's a segmented piece with huge fluting wrapping around it
up to 12' tall comes to mind <g>), is when an architect might need to talk
with a woodturner about the project or hire them directly. There are
exceptions, of course, but that's been my experience and those turners that
I've talked to so far that have done this type of work.
Oh yeah, home and urban historical societies can be a good resource for work
I heard too. In areas where that type of architecture is prevalent, you can
introduce yourself to them and they'll keep your name on file for those
cases where either homeowners/buisness owners or contractors coming into the
area talk with the society for advice or to get their approval on changes.
No problem of that here but I've heard other turners talk about that in the
Eastern US.
This is just a start. Hope it goes well for you,
- Andrew
"Owen Davies" <owen...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:8aednScUYuf...@adelphia.com...
Owen Davies
> Personally, I prefer to use "structural" and the people I do buisness with
> perfer it too, even the architects. ...
I'd include larger columns, but your description is pretty much what I
had in mind when writing "architectural."
> It's not my main job by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a steady
> income and it's fun. I can't say from experience whether it's a steadier
> paycheck than the crafts or arts end of the spectrum because I'm just now
> getting into really pushing those things of mine into the public.
Hmmm. Now you have me curious. If structural turning isn't your main
work, and you are just getting into the arts-and-crafts market, what's
left? Or isn't turning your primary occupation?
> A good person to talk with or, even better, go see and take a class from is
> Ernie Conover at http://www.conoverworkshops.com/index.htm regarding this.
Thanks, I hadn't thought of him.
> I can't really tell you about the earning potential as it really seems to be
> very geographical.
Regrettably, that probably makes this an academic exercise for me. I
moved to Florida two years ago. Not much call for stair spindles around
here, nor much else that isn't made of cinder block. Not that this
factor comes as a surprise.
> Basically, you're going to be making custom woodworking wages. ...
> This is just a start. Hope it goes well for you,
At the moment, this is just exploratory. It will be a long time before
I am good enough to go pro at turning of any sort. It just seemed that
this must be the meat-and-potatoes market for anyone who really wanted
to make a living as a turner, and I'm so burnt out on my day job that
anything even vaguely interesting gets at least a once-over for its
income potential.
Thanks for your many suggestions. They help a lot.
Owen
Arch
ng and probably involves many lurkers. I've also wondered why turners
who work in art, general craft and restoration/industrial turning never
choose to write about the latter. Maybe they are too busy to post, _or
maybe they've had too few questions to answer and don't need to ask any.
I believe restoration/industrial turners are as willing to share their
expertise and trade secrets as the rest of us. Whatever the reasons for
so little ng participation, I don't believe that this huge part of
woodturning is just grim labor, a business/trade with no enjoyment of
comrades or pride of accomplishment.
Thanks Andrew, for your very thorough discussion and insights from your
actual experience. I hope this thread will generate many similar ones,
because this work is what many turners mostly do and IMHO there's a
place and need for them on rcw. Arch
Fortiter,
AHilton
> had in mind when writing "architectural."
Your lathe equipment, along with everything else, requirements will jump by
magnitudes once you start getting into large columns. But it's pretty cool
to watch an 18' long x 24" diameter column being turned. They were glue-ups
of course. One guy that I watched for awhile was smoothing it with a
Stanley #5 handplane as it turned. You'll be asked to a lot of large
fluting and other decorative "ornamental lathe" types of features so you'll
need to heavily invest in routers, frames, etc. for this at least. I think
I've seen someone make a small one of these and posted it on the web
somewhere? I'm thinking it was a modified Serious Lathe? Not sure.
> > It's not my main job by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a
steady
> > income and it's fun. I can't say from experience whether it's a
steadier
> > paycheck than the crafts or arts end of the spectrum because I'm just
now
> > getting into really pushing those things of mine into the public.
>
> Hmmm. Now you have me curious. If structural turning isn't your main
> work, and you are just getting into the arts-and-crafts market, what's
> left? Or isn't turning your primary occupation?
I've done the crafts market for non-woodturning items for a few years now
but have slowly been adding the woodturning items to that. I'd much rather
just demo turn at these events than sell anyway. A whole lot more fun.
Turning isn't my primary occupation ... or, maybe more accurately .... not
my main income by a long shot. I own and run a software development and
technology consulting company. That keeps me busy most of the time. <g> If
it doesn't, and I start roaming the streets looking for trouble, I can fall
into the other businesses. They're all small businesses and some are
seasonal but it keeps me entertained when I'm not traveling or turning. I
certainly wouldn't mind woodturning full-time but that's not going to happen
yet. I have way too many other things going on. I think I would classify
myself in the woodturning field as a professional amateur. My main aim is
to explore the vast world of woodturning; trying all different types and
kinds of woodturning while selling most of what I make; but not going hungry
if I don't. <g>
> Regrettably, that probably makes this an academic exercise for me. I
> moved to Florida two years ago. Not much call for stair spindles around
> here, nor much else that isn't made of cinder block. Not that this
> factor comes as a surprise.
I don't know much about Florida except what I try to ignore in the news. <g>
I do hear that there's lots of money and building in certain areas. And
with that, might come some opportunities beyond chucking up a hunk of exotic
masonry between centers and giving it a whirl? Money likes custom made
things so maybe there's something there.
> At the moment, this is just exploratory. It will be a long time before
> I am good enough to go pro at turning of any sort. It just seemed that
That's a good point to bring up ... however unintentional. <g> From my own
experience in this type of turning and from many others in the same boat, it
starts out tentatively and suddenly you get a large order of something and
have to produce 50 of them by next week. And where not talking pens here
either. <g> If you aren't there already, you get real good at turning,
real fast ... or sink. It's a different level of turning, really. I can't
say I'm nearly as good or as quick as most professional full-time
structural/architectural turners but I've gotten a whole lot better because
of it. I also can't say that I share the exact same view as Ernie does
about (a very general term here) production spindle turning versus craft and
art turning but I do see where this type of turning really raises your
skills and the "feeling" at the lathe and working with the tools. You feel
just so much more confident in all other areas I think. So, the point of
all of that is that if you do get into this type of turning, you really need
to have solid skills to be ready to hit the ground running because you may
have to. It's no time to be trying to figure out the skew, for instance.
Know all of your tools so that it's like second nature.
> this must be the meat-and-potatoes market for anyone who really wanted
> to make a living as a turner, and I'm so burnt out on my day job that
> anything even vaguely interesting gets at least a once-over for its
> income potential.
I hear that! I'd say investigate it further .. ask around in your area and
keep your eyes open. If there's an opportunity, I'd go for it at least in a
small way at first. What other "profession" can be so much fun? Well
.............. <g>
- Andrew
Owen Davies
> Your lathe equipment, along with everything else, requirements will jump by
> magnitudes once you start getting into large columns. ...
>It's not my main job by any stretch of the imagination, but it's a
> steady income and it's fun. (etc.)
Thanks for satisfying my curiosity. It sounds like a nice way to pursue
a variety of interests.
Owen Davies
Ken Moon
It may be, like so many other occupations, that after a long day at work,
they don't want to sit at a computer and type about it.
They may not have the same enthusiasm to communicate about their "day job"
as the hobby/ semi-pro does.
Ken Moon
Webberville, TX
=================================
"Arch" <al...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:9253-40F...@storefull-3178.bay.webtv.net...
Dan Bollinger
The comments about equipment and market niche are right on, imo. Most of your work will be decorative (not structural) columns and stair spindles. And, you'll need to deliver something that an architect can't get from the companies doing this in a factory with a catalog. Therefore, most of you work will be restoration and possibly repair, too. You may also need to do carving, too. Working with architects means working with a very particular person. And, you'll need to be able to read blueprints (now there's an archiac term, they haven't been blue in quite a few decades!). Dan
James E Gaydos
I have worked as an Architectural Woodturner for the
past 7 years. I am not selfemployed. I work for a high end cabinet
company in south central Pennsylvania. About 80 miles north west of
the Philadelphia area. I do make a good living at this.
And I will say that my yearly income is higher than a lot of college
graduates.
I am self taught, with the help of a few books and video's, and lots
and lots of practice. I have been turning for about 15 years.
Architectural turning is a very broad spectrum. I prefer this term
instead of calling myself a spindle turner.
I've turned columns up to 9 feet in length by 22 inch diameters, and
balls as small as 2" that were used as supports for glass tops. I have
turned bowls and boxes as gifts for visiting CEO's and Dealers, and a
special 50 year anniversery "Pennsylvania Cherry Bowl" 3" X 15" with
carved dates and company names as a gift to the new owner of the
company.
As an Architectural turner, I will and have turned what ever is
needed by and or for the company. I could go on and on about the
different types and styles of turnings that I have done, but I think
you get my drift .
I have done turnings that have ended up in Japan, Mexico, South
America, Canada, and from one end of the US to the other. At one time
this company had over 250 dealers world wide.
For about 4 years straight I was working an average of 56 hours per
week, and my apprentis was doing the same.
3 1/2 years ago this company was shut down by the old owners and
closed. Five weeks later It reopened under a different "Cabinetry
Group" name.
A year later, it was deceided that they needed a CNC Woodturning
Lathe.
This lathe,The Hapfo AP 7000 CNC will do all kinds of things to
turnings.
Twists of all kinds, beading,flutes,reeds, ect. I find it a boring job
now.
The new owners are not very interested in hand turned work, but they
are amazed that a machine can do this. I still have a few specialty
items that I hand turn, because the CNC can't do it. It could, but the
needed attachments are very costly.
When the company closed I went into a self-employment search. I sent
out letters of introduction, with photos of my work, ( hand turned of
course ), to over 200 cabinet shops, Architects, Historical
Preservation's and Societies, and placed ads in various newspapers
covering 5 counties in Pa,and a few major
cities in 3 states. Ha, what a joke on me. This cost me a tidy sum of
money that I did not really have, the results were poor.
I ended up getting some work from a few local Antique Dealers, a lot
of parts to make for a chair repair and caining buisness, but not much
else. I have been doing the turning work for a one man furniture and
cabinet shop, this guy prefers hand turned.
What I found in my area were a lot of guys ( 6 ) using duplicating
lathes, and taking on contracts from big furniture companys. I thought
I might be able to fill a nitch, with some smaller shops, ect. What I
also found out was that it was of no real importance that I hand
turned, they could buy it cheaper from an automatic machine.
As far as discussing this type of work on news groups, it seems to be
of no real importance in the turning world. Look at any of the turning
mags,AAW Symposiums, Provo Symposiums, and local AAW chapters and 99%
of what is printed or discussed is about bowls, vessels, boxes, and
the ARTISTIC turnings.
One can make a bowl with one tool, a bowl gouge. Try to make 2 or 52
turnings that will look alike. Turning bowls is easy compared to this.
The term " One of a kind wooden bowls" is a deceiving concept. It is
easeier to make one of a kind, than multiples. OH, buy the way, one
needs to know how to use a skew, to be a real woodturner. My opinion,
a humble woodturner, Jim
George
Bonanza may put 16 oz on your plate for $12.95, but it's not the same as
chez James, where presentation makes it a dining experience.
"James E Gaydos" <JEGa...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:8a52fc75.04071...@posting.google.com...
> Hi Owen, and all.
> I have worked as an Architectural Woodturner for the
> past 7 years. I am not selfemployed. I work for a high end cabinet
> company in south central Pennsylvania. About 80 miles north west of
> the Philadelphia area. I do make a good living at this.
> When the company closed I went into a self-employment search. I sent
> out letters of introduction, with photos of my work, ( hand turned of
> course ), to over 200 cabinet shops, Architects, Historical
> Preservation's and Societies, and placed ads in various newspapers
> covering 5 counties in Pa,and a few major
> cities in 3 states. Ha, what a joke on me.
> What I found in my area were a lot of guys ( 6 ) using duplicating
Joe Fleming
I didn't find the 4th Darlow boo on design very good, but it does have a
huge emphasis on architectural turning, design and influences. Might be
worth the read for that use.
Joe Fleming - San Diego
=============================
"Owen Davies" <owen...@adelphia.net> wrote in message
news:8aednScUYuf...@adelphia.com...
Owen Davies
> I didn't find the 4th Darlow boo on design very good, but it does have a
> huge emphasis on architectural turning, design and influences. Might be
> worth the read for that use.
Thanks, Joe. I hadn't seen it, and now will go looking for it.
Owen
Gary DeWitt
Excuse me for butting in here, I'm new to turning and recently started
lurking here (long time wreck lurker), but the first thing came to my
mind was boats! Lots of high end woodworking there, perhaps you might
come across a boatyard or boat restorer that needs your services...
I'm on the "left coast", near enough to think about hitting up a few
boat builders myself. Hmm, thanks for getting me going!