Selecting Machines For A Home Shop
Too_Many_Tools
working....what older American or European machines would you choose
to populate the shop with? In a home shop environment, the size of the
work envelope can vary greatly with the work done so a number of
different candidates exist for the same function performed.
With welders, I would consider that newer machines might be more
desirable.
I have listed what categories I would consider might be wanted in a
combination metal and wood work shop for the serious hobbist.
I look forward to hearing of your choices and the reasons why.
And feel free to add any tool that I might have forgotten.
Thanks
TMT
= Metalworking
- vertical mill
- horizontal mill
- metal shaper
- slower drill press
- small metal lathe
- larger metal lathe
- horizontal metal bandsaw
- vertical metal bandsaw
- surface grinder
- bench grinder
- band/disc sander
- belt sander
- tool grinder
- air compressor
- arbor press
- hydraulic press
- heat treating furnace
- bender, brake, shear, slip roll
= Woodworking
- table saw
- cross miter saw
- radial arm saw
- scroll saw
- vertical wood bandsaw
- jointer
- planer
- wood shaper
- wood lathe
- faster drill press
= Welding
- ARC welder
- TIG welder
- MIG welder
- A/Ox welder
= Material Handling
- SMALL forklift (1000-2000lbs.)
- Pallet jack
Dave Lyon
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172865481....@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
All that for a home shop?
I'd have a nearly used up CNC knee mill, and a medium lathe. Throw in a
bench grinder, a vice, a vertical and horizontal bandsaw, a tig welder, and
a torch. With some decent tooling, that should build about anything the
average farmer would need.
John E.
too many tools indeed...;^)
John E.
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172865481....@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Jim Stewart
> Say you want to setup a home shop for both metal and wood
> working....what older American or European machines would you choose
> to populate the shop with? In a home shop environment, the size of the
> work envelope can vary greatly with the work done so a number of
> different candidates exist for the same function performed.
Never happen with my 1 bay garage. Woodworking
power tools consist of circ saw, small table
saw, router and sabre saw. And they get hauled
out on the driveway when I use them. I can't
imagine using both woodworking and metal tools
in the same room given the problems with sawdust
everywhere.
gr...@panamsat.com
> I look forward to hearing of your choices and the reasons why.
In my experience, the "typical" hobbyist buys almost nothing brand
new. If YOU are NOT typical and plan on buying new stuff, the list you
have will cost you more than the house you're putting all that stuff
in.
So when buying used stuff, your choice of brands is limited to what
comes along. I've bought almost exclusively used equipment for my
shop.
It runs the gambit from ancient US made to reasonably new Chinese. In
each case, I looked past the rust to the underlying item and asked
myself, "Self: can you repair it with the tools you have already in
the shop?" If my answer was "No", I passed on the item.
It has taken me many years to collect the tools that I now have. If
you don't want to wait that long, you will likely compromise on your
choices and end up with more junk than you will likely want.
Gary
steamer
the turkey brands; i.e. Rockwell good, Sears bad, etc. Also getcher self a
copy of a massive tome called "Machine Tool Reconditioning" which includes
survey forms that you copy and take with you when you go to look at used
machine tools: very handy that one...
--
"Steamboat Ed" Haas : Time flies like an arrow;
Hacking the Trailing Edge! : fruit flies like a banana...
www.nmpproducts.com
---Decks a-wash in a sea of words---
russell...@yahoo.com
> > I look forward to hearing of your choices and the reasons why.
>
> In my experience, the "typical" hobbyist buys almost nothing brand
> new.
Really? Maybe the above statement applies to metal working tools.
But for woodworking, just read the posts on this rec.woodworking
forum. Most are about which new power tool to buy. Or how to use or
set it up correctly. The Jet and Grizzly and Sunhill and York and
Bridgewood names have only been around for a few years. I doubt all
of those were bought used. Delta and Powermatic have mostly new
models out now. So they are all new tools even though the brands have
been around for a long time. All of the Chinese and Taiwanese tools
are of recent vintage so they were bought new, not used.
As for having one shop for both metal and woodworking, I agree with
the other person that they do not mix. I use two different grinders
for metal and woodworking tasks. Using the metal cutoff saw/grinder
or the angle grinder or anvil is always done outside or in a barn.
Not in the clean woodshop.
Clark Magnuson
table saw
power miter saw
hand drill
Back hoe
bulldozer
Jointer
Bandsaw
Belt sander
wet wheel grinder
biscuit jointer
router
Shopspace
B) When I was gardening, ranching, and clearing land I used:
chain saw
DR [walk behind brush hog]
rototiller
walk behind lawn mower
riding lawn mower
motorcycle
jeep
bulldozer
Outbuilding space
C) Now that I am doing gunsmithing and electronics test fixtures I use:
vertical milling machine
lathe
standard bench grinder
end of wheel bench grinder
drill press
TIG welder
Oxyacetylene
Shopspace
Curt Welch
- dust collection and air filtering systems
> = Welding
> - ARC welder
> - TIG welder
> - MIG welder
> - A/Ox welder
- Plasma Cutter
> = Material Handling
> - SMALL forklift (1000-2000lbs.)
> - Pallet jack
- Pickup truck with trailer hitch.
- Trailer to haul the stuff that doesn't fit in the pickup.
- Enough land to hold the large shop to put it all in.
- The large shop to put it all in.
- A wife that understands the addiction.
--
Curt Welch http://CurtWelch.Com/
cu...@kcwc.com http://NewsReader.Com/
Lobby Dosser
AHS
keep in mind that they may or probably predate dust collection. That means
those tools will generate a MESS whenever you use them. If you think you
can adapt them to collect dust, you may find yourself really challenged.
Alex
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172865481....@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Andrew Barss
: Say you want to setup a home shop for both metal and wood
: working....what older American or European machines would you choose
: to populate the shop with? In a home shop environment, the size of the
: work envelope can vary greatly with the work done so a number of
: different candidates exist for the same function performed.
Sure, but you also need to consider the type of work planned.
In your WWing list, you have a scroll saw, a lathe, and a tablesaw.
IME, people who scroll saw don't usually have all that other stuff, for
example. So, scoller would have a scroll saw, and a variety of
supplemental tools that would go with that.
And why would you need both a "cross miter saw" (?) and a raidal-arm saw?
And what about a router or three? And hand tools?
-- Andy barss
: = Woodworking
SonomaProducts.com
Edge sander
Wide belt or drum sander
Oscillating dildo sander
Dust collector
Router table (shaper is nice but overkill for most hobbiest ops)
Chisle mortiser
Compressor
Air nailers
Conversion spray gun or HVLP setup
Did you hit the Lotto and are going shopping this weekend
Brian Henderson
>In my experience, the "typical" hobbyist buys almost nothing brand
>new. If YOU are NOT typical and plan on buying new stuff, the list you
>have will cost you more than the house you're putting all that stuff
>in.
Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have
been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I
know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is
going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for
that much, buy it.
Luckily, purchases can be spread out over a long, long period of time
as you need new tools to do a particular job.
Lobby Dosser
> On 2 Mar 2007 12:37:49 -0800, gr...@panamsat.com wrote:
>
>>In my experience, the "typical" hobbyist buys almost nothing brand
>>new. If YOU are NOT typical and plan on buying new stuff, the list you
>>have will cost you more than the house you're putting all that stuff
>>in.
>
> Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have
> been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I
> know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is
> going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for
> that much, buy it.
Does that include the forklift?
Steve B
>> desirable.
It all depends. For some standard welding, the oldest AC/DC welding
machines will burn rods as good as and sometimes better than the new
comparables.
However, with the new advances in MIG, TIG, and other specific types of
welding, yes, the new machines are way ahead of the old ones, which were the
first generation. Maybe second, or third.
One must analyze their needs with regards to welding, their quality
standards, and what machine will get them there.
No need to buy a $3,000 welder when a $200 Lincoln Tombstone will do the
job.
A new high line welder ......... $3,000
A new low line welder .............. $200
Knowing which one you need .......... priceless.
Steve
Gunner
wrote:
>Yikes, how many "home shops" include a forklift and a pallet jack?
>
>too many tools indeed...;^)
>
>John E.
Ah....er...ahum.....
Gunner
"Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for Western civilization as it commits suicide"
- James Burnham
Curt Welch
> No need to buy a $3,000 welder when a $200 Lincoln Tombstone will do the
> job.
>
> A new high line welder ......... $3,000
> A new low line welder .............. $200
> Knowing which one you need .......... priceless.
LOL
Jim Behning
I think this is some sort of game. I do not have the time to be a wood
butcher, a metal butcher, a bicyclist and a golfer. I picked 1.5
things for my free time. It takes time to learn how to use tools and I
have no metal working mentors and little interest. I have a mig to fix
things. When I need to do more advance metal I go to a friends shop
and destroy things or pay him. No custom machining though. If a punch,
saw, mig or tig welder, or grinder can't fabricate, it it is broke.
Can't do without the tractor with a front end loader and a bushog. Got
to have round bale forks for the loader and the rear lift. Got to have
a trailer to haul hay. Have the fertilizer spreader to overseed and
fertilize. 50 gallon sprayer to spray for weeds inthe pasture every
two or three years. Need to replace the horse trailer. Need to figure
out why the truck will not tow at highway speeds. Need a shed to get
the tractor out of the weather.
Once again what I need to keep things up is personal. I might need to
win the lottery but that would mean I would need to start a foundation
to give the money away. Excess money just creates more problems. A
little more might help though.
On 2 Mar 2007 15:24:17 -0800, "SonomaProducts.com" <bwx...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
Ralph E Lindberg
steamer <ste...@sonic.net> wrote:
> --FWIW I suggest you consider what *not* to get and steer away from
> the turkey brands; i.e. Rockwell good, Sears bad, etc. Also getcher self a
> copy of a massive tome called "Machine Tool Reconditioning" which includes
> survey forms that you copy and take with you when you go to look at used
> machine tools: very handy that one...
It all depends... I don't own much Sears (any more). I think just the
1/2-inch industrial drill. But I built the house with Sears, of course a
good number of the tools didn't survive much longer after the house was
built. Then, as I could afford it, I replaced them with better tools.
But I couldn't have afforded good tools when building the house, and
built the house.
--
--------------------------------------------------------
Personal e-mail is the n7bsn but at amsat.org
This posting address is a spam-trap and seldom read
RV and Camping FAQ can be found at
http://www.ralphandellen.us/rv
Ralph E Lindberg
"russell...@yahoo.com" <russell...@yahoo.com> wrote:
...
>
> As for having one shop for both metal and woodworking, I agree with
> the other person that they do not mix. I use two different grinders
> for metal and woodworking tasks. Using the metal cutoff saw/grinder
> or the angle grinder or anvil is always done outside or in a barn.
> Not in the clean woodshop.
>
The only metal working tool in my wood shop is the welder (power
issues). But then the chain-saws are in the barn, along with the forge,
anvil, grinders etc (the forge and anvil were my great-grandfathers and
over 100 years old)
Alan Wright
A forklift would be nice, but where would you store it? I'm looking at "truck lifts"
instead, which might also eliminate the need for a pallet jack.
If you want really small lathes/mills, I like Sherline. For medium size, Wabeco is
really nice. I have no experience with larger ones. For vertical bandsaws and drill
presses I like Delta so far. My horizontal bandsaws are cheap ones but work fine.
I like DeWalt, Makita, and Bosch for miscellaneous saws and other tools.
Due to limited space, for surface grinding and horizontal milling I'm looking at the
Sieg U2. Can't see making room for a shaper.
I'll have to give up another garage bay (already use one plus small shop) if I add
worddworking and welding.
Alan
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1172865481....@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Too_Many_Tools
> instead, which might also eliminate the need for a pallet jack.
>
Truck lift?
Could you expand on this?
Thanks
TMT
On Mar 3, 11:06 am, "Alan Wright" <a...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A forklift would be nice, but where would you store it? I'm looking at "truck lifts"
> instead, which might also eliminate the need for a pallet jack.
>
> If you want really small lathes/mills, I like Sherline. For medium size, Wabeco is
> really nice. I have no experience with larger ones. For vertical bandsaws and drill
> presses I like Delta so far. My horizontal bandsaws are cheap ones but work fine.
> I like DeWalt, Makita, and Bosch for miscellaneous saws and other tools.
>
> Due to limited space, for surface grinding and horizontal milling I'm looking at the
> Sieg U2. Can't see making room for a shaper.
>
> I'll have to give up another garage bay (already use one plus small shop) if I add
> worddworking and welding.
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:1172865481....@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
> > - Pallet jack- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Brian Henderson
<lobby.dos...@verizon.net> wrote:
>Brian Henderson <BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>> Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have
>> been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I
>> know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is
>> going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for
>> that much, buy it.
>Does that include the forklift?
I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only
once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. Where
are you going to park the forklift when you're not using it anyhow?
Isn't that just wasted space that you could have more tools or
storage?
Brian Henderson
<n7...@callsign.net> wrote:
> The only metal working tool in my wood shop is the welder (power
>issues). But then the chain-saws are in the barn, along with the forge,
>anvil, grinders etc (the forge and anvil were my great-grandfathers and
>over 100 years old)
I actually have a couple that get used infrequently, mostly because I
might want to make some custom fitting for a wood project. Otherwise,
metal working tools just don't get much use.
Lobby Dosser
B A R R Y
<n7...@callsign.net> wrote:
> The only metal working tool in my wood shop is the welder (power
>issues).
I have _three_ metalworking tools:
Hammer
Pop rivet tool
Snips
<G>
Alan Wright
A "truck lift" or "lift truck" is apparently designed to lift things from the
floor up to the loading height of a truck. They also call them "stackers",
in another context.
Here is one example: http://www.grizzly.com/products/H6294
McMaster-Carr has a bunch of models under "lift truck".
Alan
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message news:1172942307....@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
Too_Many_Tools
VERY USEFUL machines,
Every shop should have at least one.
Here is a site that discusses a number of variations.
The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....so the search for
a smaller pneumatic forklift.
TMT
On Mar 3, 7:34 pm, "Alan Wright" <a...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> A "truck lift" or "lift truck" is apparently designed to lift things from the
> floor up to the loading height of a truck. They also call them "stackers",
> in another context.
>
> Here is one example:http://www.grizzly.com/products/H6294
>
> McMaster-Carr has a bunch of models under "lift truck".
>
> Alan
>
>
>
> "Too_Many_Tools" <too_many_to...@yahoo.com> wrote in messagenews:1172942307....@64g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
> > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
Gunner
wrote:
Geeze, Ive got 4x that in the top tray of ONE of my truck tool boxes
Gunner
Political Correctness
A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical liberal minority and
rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media,
which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible
to pick up a turd by the clean end.
charlieb
Fire and wood shouldn't go together
unless it's in a fireplace, barbecue
or smoker. In an enclosed space,
especially a basement . . .
charlie b
Gunner
<BrianL.H...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
>
>>Does that include the forklift?
>
>I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only
>once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. Where
>are you going to park the forklift when you're not using it anyhow?
>Isn't that just wasted space that you could have more tools or
>storage?
A forklift makes a nice welding platform as well as making it easy to
move assemblies around.
Tell the Missus you need a self propelled welding platform. Its much
easier on your back when you can raise or lower the weldments to the
proper heights <G>
Mark & Juanita
wrote:
>Okay....now I understand.
>
>VERY USEFUL machines,
>
>Every shop should have at least one.
>
>Here is a site that discusses a number of variations.
>
>http://www.stackers.co.uk/
>
>The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....so the search for
>a smaller pneumatic forklift.
>
Also be aware that forklifts have a hard time in gravel. I found that out
when picking up my shipment of cherry from the UPS terminal. Their
forklift got stuck in the gravel in the truck yard while attempting to load
onto my pickup. The gravel was dry, the forklift was standard warehouse
LP-powered with smooth rubber.
... snip
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough
+--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+
l.van...@rogers.com
here's a truck lift, made for wood turners.
http://www.woodcentral.com/cgi-bin/archives_turning.pl?read=37384
B A R R Y
wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 00:00:37 GMT, B A R R Y <beech2...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>>
>>I have _three_ metalworking tools:
>>
>>Hammer
>>
>>Pop rivet tool
>>
>>Snips
>>
>><G>
>
>
>Geeze, Ive got 4x that in the top tray of ONE of my truck tool boxes
I'm posting from the rec.woodworking perspective. My usual
metalworking consists of rearranging dust collection duct and the rare
decorative stamped tin panel.
B A R R Y
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....
Or get into a basement shop.
Nick Mueller
OK, my biased selection:
> = Metalworking
> - vertical mill
> - horizontal mill
An old Deckel
> - metal shaper
A Gack
> - slower drill press
Alzmetall or Flott
> - small metal lathe
Weiler, Schaublin
> - horizontal metal bandsaw
> - vertical metal bandsaw
No band saws, cold saws!
> - surface grinder
Not my Klaiber!
> - bench grinder
What comes along and isn't too cheap.
> - air compressor
> - arbor press
> - hydraulic press
What comes along
> = Woodworking
> - radial arm saw
DeWalt
> = Welding
> - ARC welder
> - TIG welder
> - MIG welder
EWM rulez!
Nick
--
***********************************
*** Available now in NZ and AUS ***
***********************************
<http://www.yadro.de>
Gunner
wrote:
>On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 03:25:48 GMT, Gunner <gun...@lightspeed.net>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sun, 04 Mar 2007 00:00:37 GMT, B A R R Y <beech2...@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>>
>>>I have _three_ metalworking tools:
>>>
>>>Hammer
>>>
>>>Pop rivet tool
>>>
>>>Snips
>>>
>>><G>
>>
>>
>>Geeze, Ive got 4x that in the top tray of ONE of my truck tool boxes
>
>I'm posting from the rec.woodworking perspective. My usual
>metalworking consists of rearranging dust collection duct and the rare
>decorative stamped tin panel.
Ah!
Im a machine tool (metal AND wood working) service tech...so I have to
be a bit better equipped I guess <G>
Gunner
wrote:
>On 3 Mar 2007 18:19:24 -0800, "Too_Many_Tools"
Oh they can go into a basement shop ..getting them out..now there is a
serious issue...<G>
russell...@yahoo.com
> >Brian Henderson <BrianL.Hender...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have
> >> been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I
> >> know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is
> >> going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for
> >> that much, buy it.
> >Does that include the forklift?
>
> I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only
> once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. Where
> are you going to park the forklift when you're not using it anyhow?
> Isn't that just wasted space that you could have more tools or
> storage?
Access to a forklift and pallet jack would be very nice. All of the
shipping of large woodworking tools come to the freight terminal in
your city unless you ask for curbside delivery with a liftgate truck.
And that costs a hundred or so more dollars. With a forklift and
pallet jack you would not have to pay this extra shipping fee.
J. Clarke
I can't see where the pallet jack helps unless you have a dock.
OTOH, it seems to me that a clever wooddorker might build a deck the
right height to be a dock and be careful with the gardening and problem
solved.
The house I grew up in was actually built that way--you could back an
18-wheeler up to the front porch and start unloading. Then my mother
started gardening . . .
--
--
--John
to email, dial "usenet" and validate
(was jclarke at eye bee em dot net)
B A R R Y
wrote:
>
>Oh they can go into a basement shop ..getting them out..now there is a
>serious issue...<G>
Isn't that always the case?
Getting it IN is easy... <G>
John L. Weatherly
> I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only
> once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful.
What are you welding, thimbles? ;)
--
John L. Weatherly
Nashville, TN
please remove XXXs to reply via email
russell...@yahoo.com
>
> - Show quoted text -
Put the forklift and forklift onto a trailer and haul it to the
trucking terminal. Have the people in the terminal put the pallet
with tool on it at the edge of the dock. Use the forklift to get the
pallet and tool off the dock and onto the trailer. Use the pallet
jack to position the pallet and tool at one end of the trailer. Drive
the forklift back onto the trailer. Pull the trailer with pallet and
tool and pallet jack and forklift home. Drive forklift off trailer.
Use pallet jack to move pallet and tool to one end of trailer. Use
forklift to pick up pallet and tool and drive inside the shop, or more
likely, near the door into the shop since the forklift is too big to
go into the shop through the door. Get pallet jack off trailer and
use it to move pallet and tool into shop through door and put it where
you want it in the shop.
Seems kind of simple that having a forklift completely eliminates the
need for a dock at your home. And the pallet jack makes it possible
to move the tool exactly where you need it.
Brent
> Say you want to setup a home shop for both metal and wood
> working....what older American or European machines would you choose
> to populate the shop with? In a home shop environment, the size of the
> work envelope can vary greatly with the work done so a number of
> different candidates exist for the same function performed.
>
> With welders, I would consider that newer machines might be more
> desirable.
>
> I have listed what categories I would consider might be wanted in a
> combination metal and wood work shop for the serious hobbist.
>
> I look forward to hearing of your choices and the reasons why.
>
> And feel free to add any tool that I might have forgotten.
>
> Thanks
>
> TMT
>
> - vertical mill
> - horizontal mill
> - slower drill press
> - small metal lathe
> - larger metal lathe
> - vertical metal bandsaw
> - bench grinder
> - band/disc sander
> - belt sander
> - tool grinder
> - arbor press
> - hydraulic press
> - bender, brake, shear, slip roll
>
> = Woodworking
> - table saw
> - cross miter saw
> - radial arm saw
> - scroll saw
> - vertical wood bandsaw
> - jointer
> - planer
> - wood shaper
> - wood lathe
> - faster drill press
>
> - ARC welder
> - TIG welder
> - MIG welder
>
> = Material Handling
> - SMALL forklift (1000-2000lbs.)
> - Pallet jack
TMT Unless you have a LOT of room and ideally a 2 room shop the wood
and metal combo can be pretty evil. But the thing is what are you
doing with them all.
As a home shop unless space and budget are infinite you have to make a
few choices usually.
the first thing that i think of is what are you doing with it.
Basically you need to decide whats going to be the core tool of the
shop for the work you do. the Core tools should be the best you can
possibly get and well setup and tooled to handle as many functions as
possible. For those who dont have infinite space it becomes far more
important to think of "Can i do it with what i have and just maybe
adjust the tooling" thats why all of the model engineer books form way
back post WW2 were so LATHE centric because milling machines were not
cheap or common but in comparison functional lathes were the trick is
to decide on the best tool to do the most jobs well. And ideally the
best tool for the job you do most at the same time. the trick is to
get the right tools at the heart the building out is easy.
the woodworking equivalent of the Well tooled lathe is a well equipped
tablesaw for almost any woodworking requiring right angle type cuts
and a good bandsaw for stuff like boatbuilding and luthier type work
where almost nothing is at right angles and even LESS is in a stright
line
Most Home shops will do mainly one or two things and hopefully be
adaptable to cope with other needs
A few general examples of the "core tools" and where a shop should
focus
A welding shop doing ornamental iron will have a good welding machine
(Process chosen by user preference) good O/A for heating shaping and
specialized cutting stuff, drill press, horizontal bandsaw, good
benches and vises as the "heart" of the shop But mills and lathes are
not critical in a shop wherer most of the work is by eyeball and
welding
a Machine shop will be focused on the Lathe and mill and associated
tooling as its core and the associated tooling and measurement a close
second. Stuff like grinders and jigborers and even to an extent
welding equipment are secondary since it can be worked around if need
be they are important but the shop wont grind to a halt or turn down
work because the jig borer is on the fritz
A forging shop needs a furnace to make castings.
On the woodworking side a furniture shop needs the tablesaw Jointer
and planer, Specialist shops might need steam bending equipment and
the bandsaw as their core
A luthier will be all planes bandsaw and benching as his primary
tools. Butthe drum maker (Luthiers backwoods cousin) will either have
a giant lathe or a router with all sorts of weird jigs as the core
A woodturning shop will be focuses on the Lathe Sharpening and tooling
And the list can go on and on from there.
Apologies to anyone who disapproves of my example of a core tools list
To me I do occasional woodworking stuff but my shop is drifting to be
what i would consider a prototype shop. I have a background in
electronics so my tools there are top notch which are kind of
Unnecessary when this is posted in welding woodworking and metal
newsgroups so i'll spare the details But making circuit boards and the
parts to control what i want to make is important. So the Core of my
shop right now is a well tooled lathe and a Good Tig welder and a
compressor to power hand tools, A milling machine is VERY much in the
cards but a CNC circuit board router is WAY up on my list compared to
just about EVERYONE reading this but by the same token my Machinists
Vice and a good array of hammers get as much mileage as my bench
grinder.
the woodworking stuff i have gets used often enough
but that having been said my secodary is metal art and thats a lot
looser in terms of specs since its all in how the eyeball likes it and
because i TIG weld i get secondary side jobs of just about anything
broken that anyone has in metal
I think the list is overkill because sets of it are perfect for
everyone but its too much for any one human. that haivng been said i
would LOVE to have the space to amass that much but the trick is to
find a core and build it up.
I will likely get a a milling machine then get a big lathe and using
my smaller lathe and mill recondition the big one then get rid of the
lightweight atlas and get another machine to recondition with the big
lathe and mill etc.......
but its all about finding the core that lets you do the most with the
least and working up form there
Brent
Ottawa Ontario
Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
Getting it in /in one piece/ and operable, with no big holes in the
floor above, is almost as easy.
Some days, Mr. Gravity is not your friend. ;-P
--<< Bruce >>--
ManaMan
footprint than a unisaw with support tables built around it, and is is
very versatile.
comb
> >Brian Henderson <BrianL.Hender...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have
> >> been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I
> >> know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is
> >> going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for
> >> that much, buy it.
> >Does that include the forklift?
>
> I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only
> once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. Where
> are you going to park the forklift when you're not using it anyhow?
> Isn't that just wasted space that you could have more tools or
> storage?
The guy with the workshop next to mine (100m2 so not small but not too
big) has a great setup using a hand forklift (Crown electric job). 1
wall of pallet racking and everything that is non-essential is
palletised. Table-saw, thicknesser, pan-brake, lathe etc etc. Floor
layout has various locations with "drop-in anchors" already in the
slab. If he's doing a project that requires the metal-working stuff,
it comes down off the racks, gets bolted down and away you go.
Woodworking and metal-working in the same workshop is less than ideal,
granted, but some of us don't get the choice. Good dust extraction and
regular cleaning is the key. For limited space is takes some beating.
Keeping the floor space clear also makes cleaning up the dust (metal
and wood) soooooooo much easier too. Piles of sawdust and grinding
sparks makes for lots of sirens and flashing lights and an insurance
company saying "what were you thinking!, don't think so mate".
taber...@mypacks.net
> >Brian Henderson <BrianL.Hender...@NOSPAM.verizon.net> wrote:
> >> Then I'm not typical because the overwhelming majority of my buys have
> >> been brand new. Then again, just about every serious woodworker I
> >> know also bought primarily new. The cost of a pretty decent shop is
> >> going to be in the neighborhood of $10K, if you can find a house for
> >> that much, buy it.
> >Does that include the forklift?
>
> I have yet to ever find myself needing a forklift of any size and only
> once or twice thought a pallet jack might be sort of useful. Where
> are you going to park the forklift when you're not using it anyhow?
> Isn't that just wasted space that you could have more tools or
> storage?
Regarding the 3 lathes - you state: (1) small and (2) larger metal
lathe, and (3) wood lathe...
Instaed of 3 - just get one old used USA made metal turning lathe -
Like a South Bend 13...plenty about if you look - even high school
metal shops...use it for the small, larger and for the wood lathe -
just bolt a piece angle to crossslide and go - I have been making
beautiful wood turnings on my SB 13 for years...and even if a bit worn
- will work better than most imports, and the home shop doesn't really
need brand new accuracy anyhow - plus once you get to know it - you
can make it as accurate as you understand the machine...it's a woman
though - but a good one..
For wood - I use hgihest (factory) speed most the time (1100 rpm) on
13 inch metal lathe - and that works fine - I can even make 1/8 thin
dowels just fine at that speed (most would say too slow) ..it can even
be a bit fast idf turning 12" logs. I like the SB weight and drive so
much I bought a shot 16/24 gap bed just to turn into a wood
lathe...far outperfoms any factory wood lathe when you put a 14' out
of balnce log on it (columns for a fireplace mantel)
Proctologically Violated┊
goodgawd.... :)
Too many tools, indeed!
And, 5,000 sq ft oughtta just about be enough space....
If space is an issue, consider that wood and metal often don't mix. Ditto
grinding dust and ways, welding sparks/fumes/flash and fire/health, etc.
Layout is probably as much of an issue as tool selection.
--
------
Mr. P.V.'d (formerly Droll Troll), Yonkers, NY
Stop Corruption in Congress & Send the Ultimate Message:
Absolutely Vote, but NOT for a Democrat or a Republican.
Ending Corruption in Congress is the *Single Best Way*
to Materially Improve Your Family's Life.
The Solution is so simple--and inexpensive!
entropic3.14decay at optonline2.718 dot net; remove pi and e to reply--ie,
all d'numbuhs
"Too_Many_Tools" <too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1172865481....@30g2000cwc.googlegroups.com...
Prometheus
>
>> I look forward to hearing of your choices and the reasons why.
>
>In my experience, the "typical" hobbyist buys almost nothing brand
>new. If YOU are NOT typical and plan on buying new stuff, the list you
>have will cost you more than the house you're putting all that stuff
>in.
Boy, you said a mouthful there. I guess I'm one of the non-typical
hobbyists, since I rarely buy used, and my shop has cost at least half
the value of my house over the past five years- not including all the
stuff I made myself to save money. And that's for far less equipment
than that orgininal post had jammed into it!
>It has taken me many years to collect the tools that I now have. If
>you don't want to wait that long, you will likely compromise on your
>choices and end up with more junk than you will likely want.
Yep, unless TMT just won the lottery, that is... I've spent a lot of
cash on my shops, but it took a long time and a lot of overtime and
contract jobs in my off time to do it.
Prometheus
<too_man...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Okay....now I understand.
>
>VERY USEFUL machines,
>
>Every shop should have at least one.
>
>Here is a site that discusses a number of variations.
>
>http://www.stackers.co.uk/
>
>The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....so the search for
>a smaller pneumatic forklift.
What... the hell... is a "pneumatic forklift"?
George
"Prometheus" <prome...@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:tfib03lk12e7pjnsh...@4ax.com...
>>
>>http://www.stackers.co.uk/
>>
>>The downside is most cannot cross gravel or grass....so the search for
>>a smaller pneumatic forklift.
>
> What... the hell... is a "pneumatic forklift"?
Only the tyres are pneumatic. The lift is hydraulic....
Brian
"Prometheus" <prome...@NOSPAMcharter.net> wrote in message
news:tfib03lk12e7pjnsh...@4ax.com...
The term pneumatic refers to pressurizedair powered. I don't think a
pneumatic forklift is in existance at this time, or ever will be. I think
the original poster meant hydraulic forklift, which is still inaccurate,
considering the fact that the electric models on the web site he provided
all use hydraulic pumps to lift the forks. The proper term he may be looking
for is internal combustion engine powered.
Prometheus
I know- hence the ellipses. I guess the point I was making rather
obliquely is that if a guy doesn't know that there is no such thing as
an air-powered forklift, it's probably not a good idea to buy one and
try it out around the house- especially after he puts the tines
through one of the walls, and gets it stuck in that grass he thinks it
might cross. If you already know how to drive one, they're easy
enough- but I wouldn't want a beginner driving one around anything I
cared about. Most folks think it's just like drving a car, and
proceed to smash things up nicely the first time they give it a whirl.
Only thing I'd take on grass with tines on it is a tractor or a
skyjack. Even gravel is usually asking for trouble with your average
shop forklift- and if you don't have a good sized truck to pull it
out, you're in for a lot of work when it gets stuck.
But while we're on the subject, if any of you guys are thinking that
you might need such a thing (and I've considered the value of a home
forklift once or twice, I admit, but it soon passes,) it's worthwhile
to look into getting a used Ford type N tractor. They're little, and
have a power takeoff and hydraulic attachments that make them useful
for all sorts of things around the yard, like digging holes with an
auger, plowing the driveway, digging trenches to bury lines, putting a
boom on it to lift shingles or trusses if you're inclined to do a
little roofing or framing, etc- and they usually go for about $2k,
which is less than a forklift, IIRC. Not so good inside the shop,
unless you've got a really big shop, but one of those would get stuff
off a truck and to the inside of the door pretty easily, and a pallet
jack will usually do the job once you get stuff that far.