Variable Frequency Drive and Powermatic Model 90 with Reeves Drive
John Jordan
belts/pulleys, either flat or v belt depending on what you can com up with.
One advantage the vfd has is the smoothness relative to the vibrations and
general flopping around of the parts of the reeves drive.
John Jordan--
www.stubbylathe.com
David Lankford <dlan...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HYir5.3698$Oc.6...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
> I'm in the process of purchasing a VFD for my Model 90. My question is
what
> have other that have incorporated a VFD with the Model 90 or other lathe
> that have a Reeves drive done with the Reeves drive once the VFD is
> installed.
>
> Is the Reeves drive removed and different pulley installed or do you leave
> the Reeves drive on and set the speed adjuster to a fixed speed?
>
> Your comments would be greatly appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> David Lankford
>
>
Woody
speed motor the horsepower decreases with speed below base speed (60 HZ) you
need some way to change the speed range for the size work. You should note
that all of the OEM lathes with Inverters have a step pulley system to
select more that one speed range. Single speed systems are seldom
satisfactory for the same reason vehicles all have transmissions.
Chuck Woodruff, Woodco Products
David Lankford wrote in message ...
David Lankford
Mike Paulson
John is the expert, I take very seriously anything he says, but there is
one other thing to consider, and that is: what size motor are you getting?
If 2hp or more, I would go with John's recommendation. I only have a 1 hp
variable dc motor on my old model Poolewood and the variable pulley allows
me to fine tune the power train to get the most out what I've got. Plus,
I really like not having to change belts. In my case, the reeves drive is
a huge asset.
-mike paulson, fort collins, co
Randy
DELTA (No relation that I am aware of to the powertool company) VFD to convert
single phase 240 to 3phase 240. I have a 1 HP 3 phase motor. I don't recall
where I read this but I remember something about some motors being rated for
variable speed and others not. If you run a motor too slow then it won't have
enough cooling. This makes sense because the back of my motor has a cooling fan
on it. I looked into buying a better motor but it was something like $500-$600
to get a motor with the proper cooling.
My thought is to leave the reeves drive belt in place and use it or the inverter
to control the speed with the intention of keeping the motor speed above 500
rpm. I am getting some slight vibration now. Is this normal? It looks like it
is caused by the belt flapping. I am going to try and tighten the belt but it
looks to me like the belt tension is controlled by the spring on the variable
pulley mounted on the motor. Will lowering the motor affect the tension? I am
just finishing a bench to put the lathe on. It is sitting on the floor right
now and I don't have the headstock bolted to the bed yet. This may be part of
my vibration problem. I don't think it is very bad but I was looking for no
vibration.
The drive that I got is nice but in hindsight I wouldn't buy it again. It has a
cooling fan and you can see the electronics through the cooling slots. I am not
sure what affect dust will have but it probably won't be good. I am going to
have to buy a box to put the drive in and then mount the speed control
potentiometer remotely.
I got the lathe from a scrap heap. It has taken a little more money to get it
up and running than I anticipated and I ended up with one wrong part. I got
some of the parts from various used machinery dealers. I thought I was buying
the outboard half of the upper pulley but it ended up being the inboard half. I
borrowed a lathe at work and turned the end of the pulley off so I could put a
collar with a set screw on the end of the shaft. I found a model 90 hand wheel
but it doesn't seem to me like I have enough threads to hold it. I only have
about 1/2" of threads showing to screw the hand wheel on. Can someone
describe how this assembly looks and possible give me a dimension for the outer
half of the upper pulley? I think I need to take another 1/4" off of it or
maybe I need to put a set screw in it and leave off the collar.
Thanks,
Randy
David Lankford
moving to a new motor and would then consider getting a 2 HP motor if I can
even get one to fit, but I do think that I will keep the Reeves on. Can you
clarify for me what you mean by "fine tune the power train"
Thanks,
David Lankford
"Mike Paulson" <mpau...@nyx10.nyx.net> wrote in message
news:96770069...@irys.nyx.net...
David Lankford
I'm a bit confused. The Hitachi inverter that I am looking at states that
there is no loss in torqe as speed is reduced. Is this what you are talking
about? or as the speed is reduced by the VFD, the rpm's are lower than
stated on the VFD and you need to adjust via the Reeves to compensate.
Currently the lathe has a 1 HP-3PH motor, I'm thinking to move to a 2HP-3PH
motor if I can find one to fit due to the age of the current motor and to
allow for more power. Will this help?
Thanks,
David Lankford
"Woody" <cwoo...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:bFmr5.2422$6f1.4...@news.uswest.net...
I always suggest that the Reeves be left in place.....with any variable
speed motor the horsepower decreases with speed below base speed (60 HZ) you
need some way to change the speed range for the size work. You should note
that all of the OEM lathes with Inverters have a step pulley system to
select more that one speed range. Single speed systems are seldom
satisfactory for the same reason vehicles all have transmissions.
Chuck Woodruff, Woodco Products
David Lankford wrote in message ...
David Lankford
You make a good point and that's why I originally posted the question. I'm
curious as to your thoughts on what Mike Paulson and Chuck Woodruff state in
their reply's.
Thanks,
David Lankford
"John Jordan" <johnj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8okk4c$1uo$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net...
You should remove the reeves drive and replace it with good quality
belts/pulleys, either flat or v belt depending on what you can com up with.
One advantage the vfd has is the smoothness relative to the vibrations and
general flopping around of the parts of the reeves drive.
John Jordan--
www.stubbylathe.com
David Lankford <dlan...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message
news:HYir5.3698$Oc.6...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
John Jordan
It's true that most lathes OEM lathes have more than one set of pulleys, but
it's also true that they are rarely changed. I don't think the belt on my
Woodfast was changed in 8-9 years, and I know the Stubby and Oneway lathes
never are-Powermatic 3520 as well.
Donald R. Watland
to eliminate. I had our local Powermatic repair rep out, who started by
replacing the two main headstock bearings, for something between $500-$600,
and while he had things apart, he pointed out that the large, sliding
housing associated with the mechanical variable speed control had become
worn to the point it also should be replaced, as it would also contribute to
the vibration. Is this unit part of what you are calling the Reeves drive?
He gave me a quote for the two parts that he found worn. The exact number
is fading in my mind as the shock wears off, but I think it was somewhere
around, or over, $1200.
Since this is a purely mechanical item, it is bound to wear with time. Its
purpose is for the variable speed control. If it is left in, while
upgrading the machine to have an electronic means of controlling speed, you
are still toying with having to replace that unit, eventually, unless you
like a vibrating machine. I know I abandoned my rebuild effort after the
first $500 for the bearings. Looking at another possible $1200, plus the
cost of an AC motor and controller, I'd say you must really have a love for
that Powermatic 90. If you replaced the bearings ($500), and the mechanical
housing ($1200), and toss in the new motor and controller ($400), you would
have $2100 invested in a 12" lathe. I don't know about any extra costs for
new belts and pulleys. I bought a brand new Vicmarc 24" lathe for $1300
above that rebuild cost. Just a thought.
--
Donald Watland
Watland Design
Peoria, AZ
dwat...@uswest.net
"Woody" <cwoo...@uswest.net> wrote in message
news:bFmr5.2422$6f1.4...@news.uswest.net...
> I always suggest that the Reeves be left in place.....with any variable
> speed motor the horsepower decreases with speed below base speed (60 HZ)
you
> need some way to change the speed range for the size work. You should note
> that all of the OEM lathes with Inverters have a step pulley system to
> select more that one speed range. Single speed systems are seldom
> satisfactory for the same reason vehicles all have transmissions.
>
> Chuck Woodruff, Woodco Products
> David Lankford wrote in message ...
Jon Schilling
I guess I'm doin' it wrong again!
I turn items from 6" dia to 24" dia on my 2436 and I find myself changing
pulleys especially if I move up to
15" and above????????????????
On my Jet mini and on a friend's Vicmark mini we change the pulleys
often.............little boxes to the 9.5" bowl or platter??????????????
Ditto for my Oneway 1018...................
The turner's own style may dictate "rarely changed", but if you use the
potential "several clubs in you bag" and your turning varies from boxes,
Christmas ornaments, spindles, hollow forms, mini salad serving bowls,
large salad bowls, and platters, you won't like one pulley.
I can tell you first hand that on my Nichols bowl lathe when I go from 14"
to a 26 or so dia. the pulley gets changed. And over 30", I still can not
gear down enough.
Continuing to turn relatively same sized pieces requires no changes of
course!
.......................................
Having said that......Chuck Woodruff's own addage is: "Torque rotates
the spindle, horsepower makes the shavings!"
.......................................
Over a year ago, I opened the web site of a British lathe maker and noted
that they claimed that their lathe's
horsepower was not varied with variations in motor speed. I emailed them
and asked them to
tell me "just a woodturner who could read and thought that he understood the
horsepower calculation equation"
to explain their new technology for maintaining horsepower when varying the
motor speed. I thought maybe the frequency variation was really MAGIC.
GUESS WHAT! The next day I received an international long distance phone
call while I was in my shop.........
The caller acknowledged that the horse power did vary, but he stated:
"Even at lower rpm's their 3 hp motor
was strong enough to turn most things!" "Strong enough" I understood, but
from my own efforts I knew
that the pulley required to turn a 12" dia will not adequately drive a 24"
piece. The caller agreed and I thanked him for all his effort and time to
call me. And my Nichols lathe has a 3 horsepower 3 phase variable speed
motor.
...........................................
IMHO,
If one has various lathes for turning different types of items, the pulleys
may be not be changed often.
But..............if the turner buys one lathe to cover all (or most)
potential turning efforts.....!!!!!!!!!
I suggest the turner will be unhappy (read: really Pissed) if he or she
does not have a way to vary the connection from the motor to the spindle!
...........................................
So! Maintaining the reeves drive in the model 90 would be a minimalist's
way to achieve this. I know folks have removed the reeves drives and
installed jack shafts with multiple pulleys and they are happy with their
lash up, but it took a lot more effort and time and money to do so.
Regards and happy modifications!
--
Jon Schilling, Ridgefield, Wa.
"John Jordan" <johnj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8olkg9$rcs$1...@slb2.atl.mindspring.net...
Steve Tiedman
Amen. Just because the motor is turning that giant chunk of wood when the belt
is on the high speed range pulley and the v.s. knob is turned down low, that
doesn't mean the motor isn't suffering big time. That is why Nichols likes to
emphasize so many steps on his pulley system with the v.s. motor systems.
This is where people start to take v.s. for granted. "I just turn the knob to
whatever speed I need." Let the mechanical advantage of the pulleys work for
you, not against you. Variable speed is meant to fine tune the rpm in a given
safe, mechanically practical pulley speed range.
Don't limit yourself to just the tip of the iceberg, use the full range of what
your machine was intended to do.
Does anyone here own a modern bicycle with gears? Or a vehicle with a manual
transmission? Do you ever pull away from a stop sign when engaged in the top
end of the gear range? Of course not. No mechanical advantage and very
stressful on the machinery. Variable speed on a lathe does not mean no more
belt changes. I don't think this is an opinion, this is mechanical fact.
On a side note, Jon; Wow- a Jet mini, a big and small Oneway, and a Nichols!
Can I come over and play?
Take care,
Steve Tiedman
ste...@moscow.com
---------------------------
John Jordan
I agree that changing the pulleys works quite well when needed, didn't mean
to imply otherwise. I was simply pointing out that on larger lathes with
powerful motors, it's not done very often, in my experience. You do some
large pieces on a regular basis I know, and a lower gear certainly helps
there.
I suggested that he remove the all the sliding, rattling parts of the reeves
drive in order to take advantage of the smoothness of his new, (presumably
expensive) variable speed drive. I never suggested that he limit himself to
one pulley. If one is going to the effort/expense to do it, it may as well
be done right.
Best,
JJ
--
www.stubbylathe.com
Jon Schilling <jo...@worldaccessnet.com> wrote in message
news:8ols9...@enews3.newsguy.com...
John Jordan
the current lathes with variable ac or dc motors in the 1-1/2 hp range
perform very well on small to fairly large work without undue strain on
anything. I agree that moving the belt to the top speed range and turning
the control all the way down isn't adequate, and you lose the safety factor
of limiting the rpms.
I also probably tend to presume that most people are turning normal scale
bowls/vessels on lathes with decent sized motors, and that is obviously not
always the case-sorry.
My bike has lots of gears-the only way to get my fat self up the hill. I've
also seen Jon's shop he's got a LOT of lathes. (and wood, and tools, and
finished bowls, and......) <BG>
John Jordan
--
www.stubbylathe.com
Steve Tiedman <ste...@moscow.com> wrote in message
news:39AE8F78...@moscow.com...
Jon Schilling
loose baggage with the
reeves drives.
One thing I can say regarding NOT having loose baggage.............I bought
my Oneway 2436 after being at
John's demo in Dale Larsen's shop in Gresham, Oregon. I was standing at
the tailstock end taking pictures.
I had turned away from the lathe with my left hand resting on the tailstock
for support and I was chatting with another attendee.
All of a sudden I realized that the guy I talked to was not looking at me
but over my shoulder at the John.
I turned around and to my consternation, John had turned on the lathe and
the piece was spinning at whatever speed John usually turns. I had not
noticed that the lathe had been turned on! It was so smooooooth!
I placed the order that evening after I returned home.
It was a wonderful payback to begin using the Oneway without any vibration
and annoying hopping and all that which I had been used to. (It was a
machine hopping. My hopping is not annoying)
Regards,
--
Jon Schilling, Ridgefield, Wa.
"John Jordan" <johnj...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8om6ea$18f$1...@slb7.atl.mindspring.net...
Woody
Horsepower is a measure of work, how fast we put chips on the floor for us.
It is torque times RPM so you are able to create the same size shaving over
the speed range but as you slow down the rate of putting the shaving on the
floor decreases......if you pick a single belt ratio that is great for pens
then when you slow down for a big bowl you don't have much torque to work
with.
As for the motor size, the inverter will produce 150% output for one minute
(then it just trips off ) which for woodlathe use means you have a 1.5
horsepower system. The nominial 1 HP motor will produce 1.5 HP as well. I
believe a 2 HP motor would just end up slipping the belt and would not be
worth the expense....most 2 HP motors have a 7/8 inch as well although you
can find them with 5/8
Someone raised the question of motor cooling at the slower speeds. For a
woodturning application that is generally not a problem, the AVERAGE
horsepower used by woodturning is very low, we use lots of peaks but not
much overall....touch most lathe motors and they are barely warm while a
motor producing nameplate horsepower on a continuous basis will be too hot
to touch.
Chuck Woodruff, Woodco Products
David Lankford wrote in message ...
John Jordan
My thoughts re: Mike and Chuck's suggestion is as I said: The drive on your
Powermatic was NEVER real smooth at it's best, and is likely considerably
worse than that now. My point is that with good pulleys/belt, it should run
very smoothly since that is the nature of, and a major benefit of the vfd.
I'm not familiar with Mike's lathe-it could be smooth anyway, and I believe
he said cost was a consideration-that's certainly something to consider.
Chuck felt it's the easiest way to insure proper gearing-anther good point,
and Chuck has retrofitted a lot of lathes. Someone else pointed at that at
some point the investment in fixing it up may not be worth it-a bit more
money and you could maybe swing a deal on something a bit newer.
Good luck whichever way you go.
John Jordan--
www.stubbylathe.com
David Lankford <dlan...@cox.rr.com> wrote in message
news:Qesr5.4591$Oc.8...@typhoon.southeast.rr.com...
Woody
The 90 has well over an inch of thread on the outboard side for the
handwheel ( a left hand 7 tpi thread ) If you send me a snail mail address I
can send you some pages from a manual but not the exact dimensions....as I
said in another post, don't worry about the cooling for woodturning.
Chuck Woodruff, Woodco Products
Randy wrote in message ...