What shapes work for given blank sizes?
Matt Heffron
bowl/platter/etc. objects they turn. Specifically, how does one develop a sense of what
shapes work well from which size blanks?
Some things seem sort of obvious:
10" diameter by about 1" thick won't become a goblet or vase. It's probably going to
become a plate/platter.
But what if it were 2" thick?
What about smaller pieces?
4" dia. x 4" thick
or
6" dia x 3" thick
What shapes do you think of when you see a piece of wood of a given size?
How did you develop that way of thinking?
Thanks,
Matt Heffron
AAW Member
Inland Woodturners Member
Larry
Take a look at any of the Richard Raffan books. There's a lot of
information on design considerations in them.
Other than that I can't be of much help. When I look at a stick of
wood I can usually just "see" which sticks I've got that it will match
with and what it "should" become. Fortunately, I usually like the
result. I can't take any credit nor has it developed over time.
Don't know where it came from. I'm just grateful it's there.
Larry
Darrell Feltmate
To develop a sense of design, look and turn and think. I feel that good
design can be learned. Look at a lot of stuff and maybe keep a scrapbook
of pictures. This should be all kinds of stuff, cars, clothes, statues,
carving, painting, photographs, nature... Anything that has form and
line should make you think, "O yeah," "Yuck," or "Who cares?" Such
designations are subject to change with time and distance as well as
other influences. Question what you see and why you do or do not like
it. Turn a pile of stuff copying other turners. No crime here. Most of
us have had our turnings copied years ago by famous Japanese and Chinese
potters :-) Ok, ok, mine were copied by not nearly so famous potters and
for obvious reasons :-) Think about what you do and what works for you
and decide if you want to turn for others (customers) or for yourself
(fun). Generally I enjoy the turning for customers and enjoy selling
something I turn for my own pleasure so you can sometimes win either
way. Sooner or later you will start to see things in wood pieces. You
will also have an idea of what to turn and a piece will appear that you
know will work for that particular turning... you think.
God bless and safe turning
Darrell Feltmate
Truro, NS, Canada
Andi Wolfe
fit a particular form. Sometimes you lose the best features or
potential of the wood by trying to make the biggest
bowl/platter/vase/hollow form from any particular blank.
Some of my blanks are 8 X 8 X 4, which would make nice bowls.
However, I often cut these blanks into quarters and make four small
vessels out of the same piece of wood instead of a single bowl -
depends on what the grain looks like and what I might want to do in
terms of surface enhancement. On some of my blanks that are 6 X 6 X
2, I'll locate the center of the bowl where the grain orientation will
produce the effect I want and the final diameter may only be 4 inches.
Producing a good form is the key regardless of the size of the blank.
If you haven't read any of Richard Raffan's books as of yet, I'd
recommend you do so to get some good ideas on form as it relates to
turning stock.
Enjoy! Andi
"Matt Heffron" <hef...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message news:<cRuT9.2735$Dq.2...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>...
Buddy Matlosz
Adding to the other posters' suggestions, I create a "scrapbook" of sorts by
saving pictures to a file whenever I see an inspirational turning on a
website. Later, I create a document with several pix per page and print it
out.
In addition to Raffan's book, there's another handy publication titled
"Woodturning: A Sourcebook of Shapes", by Hunnex. Here's a link to the
Amazon page:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/tg/detail/-/0946819459/qid=1042208415/sr=8
-2/ref=sr_8_2/102-9902834-0147309?v=glance&s=books&n=507846
I believe Raffan's design book covers bowls only, while the Hunnex book
includes spindle turnings as well.
Buddy
"Matt Heffron" <hef...@alumni.caltech.edu> wrote in message
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georgetroy
Hello Matt,
You have opened up a can of wood worms here. Design is so personnal
and I think it is influenced by nature, background, use, practicality,
what's in the wood, your peers, your gallery, your wife & family and
so on. Richard Raffan has a book out on design, of course so does
others. As for me, I like Southwest designs and think Native American
pottery shapes are great. Phil Brennton a few years ago had an article
on bowls with a past (Wood Mag. 6/94). I use Canvas8, a drawing
program to make my shapes. When I give classes sometimes the shapes
will be spontanious based on feedback, what wood I have and so.
Besides segmented turning I do goblets, plates, boxes and other
vessels. After you have more experience the shapes will come to you.
George Troy
http://www.georgetroygrahics.com http://www.georgetroycrafts.com
Brad the Lurker
One of the biggest mistakes I see most beginning turners (myself
included) make, is trying to match the end shape to the blank size. I
used to try to maximize the size of the final piece and end up with a
lot of flat sided, wide bottomed, thick walled designs. I look back
on what at the time were my masterpieces and think "boy that's ugly".
I suggest you start a scrapbook of interesting shapes. Then once you
get a blank on the lathe you can size it up, flip through your scrap
book, and pick a shape that fits the blank. After a while, you
develop any eye for what shape is hiding within the blank and use the
scrapbook less and less.
I still use my scrapbook on those days when I'm feeling uninspired.
Welcome to the world of turning,
Brad
Leo Lichtman
advice. (Something must be wrong <G>) So let me put in my 2 cents worth.
I frequently find that if I just start turning the piece, something emerges
which I could not have visualized in advance. From a rough chunk of wood to
a finished turning may be too large a leap to make all at once. Turning is
a process of removing the part that is not a bowl. If you start removing
what you know you don't want, you will be better able to decide what to do
with what is left. And, going through this process over and over will
slowly improve your ability to previsualize.
Darrell Feltmate
I should have noted that my wife and daughters now look at trees as we
drive by and say "You could make some nice _______s out of that one."
They have learned to look. Of course one daughter likes bowls with holes
from burls and the other likes bowls without holes, but that just proves
that sometimes all a father can do is duck and that mostly a father is
wrong even when he is right :-)
Jeff Bennett
and I wanted a copy. I picked up a used one for $9.00. Great deal.
Jeff Bennett
"Buddy Matlosz" <amat...@optonline.net> wrote in message
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Lyn J. Mangiameli
I bet you get a lot of this one, in part because so many of us never
feel we fully master this, and also because there are so many different
approaches to design. One can approach design based more on abstract
principles (golden mean, root etc.), based on actively playing with
lines and shapes developed on a drawing board or computer screen
(perhaps using a mirror), more on visually logging the pleasing shape of
existing pieces (such as Oriental, Greek, SouthWest forms) be they
woodturnings or another media, even more on practical aspects such as
orientation of grain, maximizing yeild, dealing with stability issues,
etc. Some of these approaches will fit for one person (or even one
particular turning blank) much better than others. Good form is not just
a matter of what is most abstractly pleasing, but what can best be
matched to the materials, techiques and tools available to you. For
example, a long pointed finial might make for a most pleasing line, but
if your wood is not dense, fine and straight grained, and your skew
technique sound, it might not be a good design for the turning blank
before you.
That said, here's a few thoughts.
The very best, and one of the most comprehensive discussions of basic
design principles applied to woodturning is presented in a book called
Woodturning: A Guide to Advanced Techniques by Hugh O'Neill. This 1994
book has long been out of print, but may be found through used
booksellers or your local library. He devotes two full chapters to
design, one more practical and one more theoretical, but both are the
best discussion of design applied to woodturning I have found anywhere.
Though only illustrated in black and white photos and line drawings, the
illustrations are of the sort you can photocopy, blow up, and use as
patterns and guidelines. He even has tables of classically ideal dimensions.
Next in line, and the only current book focusing on woodturning design
is Richard Raffan's Turned Bowl Design. The book is not exclusively
about design and IMO is more like a couple of chapters on design. It is
good, though hardly outstanding. He does discuss caternary chains and a
few other helpful methods to help you determine design. Most important
about Richard's work is not so much that he has talked about design so
well, as that his turnings usually display such good design. The gallery
sections of his books are some of the best parts of his books (at least
the older editions, Tauton has done us an injustice by leaving out much
of this material in the new editions).
A book that should be out in May, is the latest in the series done by
Mike Darlow. It will be devoted to woodturning design and is named
accordingly. Pre orders are now possible on Amazon. I'll stick my neck
out on this one and say that I don't expect it will be the best or
definitive resource in this area for woodturners, but it will be
comprehensive and worth its purchase price.
I personally found Stott's new book Turned Boxes: 50 Designs, to be a
disappointment. But then I'm not that much of a box turner, and was not
that concerned about learning the techniques to duplicate each of his works.
Going with the idea that looking at good design will teach you good
design, there are several woodturning oriented books that are good. I'm
going to append to the end of this my article of a couple of years ago
on woodturning "art" books. It is a bit incomplete and out of date, not
having several of Stocksdale's books (particularly his spectacular 88
Turnings) and not having many of those in the series put out by the
Woodturning Center, but it will give you some idea of what's out there.
Lyn.
There are woodturning "art" books oriented primarily to the consumer,
woodturning "art" books oriented more to the practicing turner and what
I'll call crossover books that integrate information intended for both
audiences. Since I've acquired a few of these books, I thought I'd make
a few quick comments on the ones I have.
First, from the technical side:
Master Woodturners by Dale Nish, 1985: One of the earliest (date wise)
of the books. Discusses the works of Ellsworth, Key, senior and junior
Lindquist, elder Moulthrop, Osolnik, Raffan, Stirt & Straka. Basically a
page of biography and philosophy on each turner, followed by extensive
illustrated descriptions of them making one or more works. A classic
which is unfortunately diminished by age and less than sharp (by present
standards) black and white photos. Small color and black and white
gallery at the end.
Sculpting Wood: Contemporary Tools & Techniques by Mark Lindquist, 1986:
Another of the earliest books on this subject. Even more dated in its
techniques and poor quality photos than the Nish book. Not limited to
woodturning, and often describes the basic use of woodworking tools. I
find this book more of an interesting historical curiosity displaying
the early primitive development of modern techniques than of any actual
guide to modern woodturning. Still probably of interest to those who
like the Lindquist's work, particularly the chainsaw techniques.
The Art of The Lathe by Patrick Spielman, 1996: This is a strange book.
It combines introductory descriptions and techniques of woodturning,
simple woodturning project plans, and brief descriptions of a large
number of interesting turners into one volume. From an experience
woodturner s point of view, one third of the book is a waste. Yet It has
high quality photos and mini bios of some a good cross section of
woodturners and their works including Rosand, Scarpino, Firmager,
Gilson, Horn, Hosaluk, Jordan, Klein, Latven, Stirt, Stocksdale &
Weissflog to name about half of them. Given it's low price, it's
probably worth getting, but unless some of its specific projects
interest you (earrings, candlesticks, ornaments, birdhouses, platters
and the like) it's not much of a technical source.
Illustrated Woodturning Techniques by John Hunnex, 1996: I like this
book. It has good photography coupled with pleasant forms and
illustrated discussions of how an example of each style of form is made.
While limited to just the work of Hunnex, it has a chapter each on
bowls, closed forms, natural tops vases, hollow forms and bottles. Given
it's modest price, I think it is worth getting.
Woodturning Masterclass by Tony Boase, 1995: The first of Tony's books.
Great photography, but most of all, good insights into the lives and
works of 12 British woodturners (Bryant, Clare, Firmager, Kaye, Key,
Marsh, Liz and Micheal O'Donnell, Scott, Smith, Tattersall, White &
Woodward). You get a good idea of how each goes about their style of
turning. Unfortunately limited to the British woodturners, but
generally a must get.
Bowl Turning Techniques Masterclass by Tony Boase, 1999: Second of
Tony's books, and of the same level. Everything as with his first book,
but slightly less Anglocentric. This time on Robin Wood (pole lathe),
Stuart Batty, Ambrose, Larsen, Flynn, Forbes, Mortimer, Comerford,
Hibbert and Boase himself. Another must get.
Crossover books:
Woodturning: A Source Book of Shapes by John Hunnex. This is basically a
color gallery of over a hundred of John Hunnex's turning, broken down by
basic style (i.e., bowl, platter, open form, vase, etc.). It is not so
much as source of different shapes as one might expect, as many of the
pieces use very similar forms, but appear different as a result of the
wood that is used. It is a pretty book to look through and though the
printing is not incredibly sharp, the photography was good and shows of
the pieces quite well. All in all, a real bargain given its price.
Bert Marsh Woodturner by Marsh, 1995: Part biography and philosophy
(which I found boring), part elementary tools and techniques, but about
half interspersed and gallery photos of good quality. If you like
Marsh's style (which emphasizes form and wood), there are many pieces to
study and admire.
Rude Osolniik: A Life Turning Wood, 1997: About half biography (but
fairly interesting), a small section on technique (his famous
candlesticks, large vessels, natural edges, twig pots & bowls), and all
the rest a gallery of his works. Excellent photography on glossy paper.
A wonder for the wide range of styles he created and mastered. A must
have IMO.
Art books:
Mark Lindquist: Revolutions in Wood by Robert Hobbs, 1995. Large size,
but actually little content. Hobbs find more profundity in Lindquist's
life and work than I buy into, he also seems to believe the Lindquist's
are responsible for almost every advance in woodturning.
Short but full size section of gallery photos which are well
photographed. If you are a fan of Mark's work, or find it intriguing,
then the book is probably worth it's price to you just for collecting so
many pictures of his work in one place.
Wonders in Wood: The Art of the Woodturner, 1998: Single full page
photos (by Tony Boase) of over 100 noted woodturners. Though British
turners predominate, there are many prominent US and international
woodturners displayed as well. Designed a bit more for the woodturner
than the typical art book. Given it's low price, it is worth acquiring
just to have an overview of so many turner's works in one place.
Turning Wood Into Art: The Jane and Arthur Mason Collection, 2000: This
is an unabashed "art" book published by Abrahms (know for their high
quality coffee table books). Excellent photos on slick paper. Lots of
Ellsworth (including non hollow forms) and lots of Stocksdale (probably
more Stocksdale in one place than I have seen). Good also to obtain a
sense of a collectors view and how a collector might seek to have a
coherent collection (which in this case is one of the largest in the US,
if hot the world). Somewhat expensive , but one of only two hard bounds
in the art book group. Fairly US centric.
Expressions in Wood: Masterworks from the Wornick Collection, 1996:
Another unabashed "art" book. Slightly oversized. About 1/3 rd verbiage
of dubious value to the woodturner. The rest is principally a page of
biography followed by one or two good quality photos of the turners
work. A wide ranging collection of turners and styles put together by a
collector who is a turner himself. Fairly nice "art" book, but in soft
cover. Predominantly US but international turners are also included.
Contemporary Turned Wood by Leir, Peters & Wallace, 1999: These are the
Del Mano gallery folks. Good introduction and history coupled with
turners works broken into five categories: Purist; Vessel Transformed;
Constructed Vessel; turning as Sculpture & Small Treasures. The best of
the best doing some of their recent best. Many of the items are highly
innovative while others are classic. International in scope. The very
best of the group and recommended for every turner's library.
The Art of Turned Wood Bowls (I think), 1983 (approximately): I don't
have this book, but have gone through it twice at an old friends.
Probably one of the first books to seriously discuss bowls for the
serious collector. Good photography (as I remember) and a nice
collection for it's era. If anyone has a copy to sell, I'd definitely
like to acquire this book.
Finally, The Art of Woodturning, 1983: Actually more of a pamphlet than
a book. One of the best histories of woodturning. Other than the cover,
all black and white pictures of variable quality. Nice because it shows
the full range of artistic craft woodturning, including chairs,
muffineers, architectural columns, screens, posts, bowls and hollow
forms. Pieces by Moulthrop, Ellsworth, Lindquist, Kent & Stocksdale, but
more significant for it's pieces by anonymous turners. Cheap (as it
should be) and to may knowledge only available from Cambium Press.
Mind you, this is a personal list and only the briefest of descriptions
from a recreational woodworker who greatly admires the work of other
turners and the wood itself.
Andi Wolfe
Thanks for the great overview of the books available out there. Would
you mind if I format your post in a .pdf and add it to my website?
Andi
Ruth
Matt,
You've gotten a ton of good advice and suggestions. Lyn's list of
books is terrific and worth printing out.
The only thing I'd like to add is don't limit yourself to "wood" design
books. When I go to the library or a huge bookstore (B&N), I peruse
books on pottery of the world, antique glassware, yellowware bowls,
pewter ware, antique treen, etc.
When a piece of wood just doesn't lend itself to a"Raffan" design, or
other woodturning authors, you just might "see" a Depression Era
yellowware bowl in that particular piece.
Keep in mind that bowl "styles" come and go as do clothing styles and
you have ages and ages of forms, styles and lines from which to choose.
Also don't think every experienced turner "knows" the design best suited
for each piece; we all have beautiful blanks sitting (for years?)
waiting for the "perfect" form.
The only turners who know exactly what design each chunk of wood is best
suited, are the turners who do one basic design and every blank is cut
with their "signature" form in mind.
Have fun and remember, our medium grows on trees!
Ruth and The General (who has the final say about the size of my
turnings!)
Woodturners Logo
My shop and Turnings at
http://www.torne-lignum.com
Andi Wolfe
http://www.biosci.ohio-state.edu/~awolfe/COW/articles.html
Andi
Andi...@yahoo.com (Andi Wolfe) wrote in message news:<6150bf34.03011...@posting.google.com>...
Matt Heffron
So here's a variation on the question (that is a little more immediate)...
I'm basically a beginner bowl turner (just a couple of small bowls, a vase...).
I've accumulated some blanks (assorted both dry (see the "Fools (and rookies) rush in ..."
thread) and green) and some small green logs (Jacaranda, 4-10" diameter, 10-16" long).
What types of projects would you suggest to:
1. practice important techniques
2. hopefully end up with some things I wouldn't be ashamed to show friends ;-)
Thanks again,
Matt
Brian Clifford
Please may I endorse what Andi and Ruth have said. That was a terrific
run-down on the books relevant to woodturning design.
Just a footnote to your list: The Art of Turned-Wood Bowls is by
Edward Jacobson and was published in 1985 by E. P. Dutton, Inc. As you
say, it is a nice book. I'm sorry, I'm hanging on to my copy, so I'm
not offering it for sale!!!
Matt,
For what it's worth: I have a short piece on 'Creative Woodturning' on
my website which some people seem to find useful. It might repay a
look.
Brian Clifford
at The Woodturner's Workshop
www.a1studio.freeserve.co.uk
Tony Manella
not have any spindle turning in it. I like the book and refer to it for
shape ideas now and then. Also has some wonderful woods.
Tony Manella
http://home.ptd.net/~ndd1/
Lehigh Valley Woodturners
http://www.lehighvalleywoodturners.org/
"Buddy Matlosz" <amat...@optonline.net> wrote in message
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Bob Pritchard
do mostly segmented projects and always skim through the quilting books when
I'm at the book store. For "regular" turning the pottery books are a very good
source.
>books is terrific and worth printing out.
>
>The only thing I'd like to add is don't limit yourself to "wood" design
>books.
Bob, Naugatuck Ct.
http://www.outofcontrol-woodturning.com