My hard apple cider tastes like white wine, not apples.
Elliot E. Hirsch, Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com
for about 13 days primary and it tastes like real dry white wine (extra dry
Korbel champagne for example). Is there any way to retain some sweetness
and apple taste in the still-sweet batch I started 5 days ago? Can I add
sweetness and apple taste? More juice at bottling? If I add more juice at
bottling, won't it ferment out in the bottle? I was also hoping to
carbonate in the bottle for new years. Any suggestions would be helpful.
--
Elliot E. Hirsch
Publisher & Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com
hir...@learnersnetwork.com
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Dewey & Lucy Thompson
> for about 13 days primary and it tastes like real dry white wine (extra
dry
> Korbel champagne for example).
The apple wines that I have made generally all taste like what you describe,
as I ferment them down to very dry. Can't be of much use to you without
specific information.
What was your starting specific gravity? (do you have a hydrometer?)
How much sugar did you add?
What yeast did you add?
>Is there any way to retain some sweetness and apple taste in the
still-sweet batch I started 5 days ago?
>Can I add sweetness and apple taste? More juice at bottling?
sweetness maybe, apple taste probably not. Depending on the amount of sugar
you added and the finishing point of the yeast you used. Personally, I
would let it clear, then bottle it. Add invert sugar syrup to taste when
using. This keeps the fermentation from restarting.
I make wine from cider all the time, I have some fermenting
now.........It will be a light, slightly fruity white wine.
Jack Keller's website has some pretty good full bodied apple wine recipes,
http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/recipes.asp
I am toying with the idea of making a "dessert" style apple wine from cider
by freezing the cider to mush and straining it, repeating as necessary to
get the specific gravity (sugar content) that I want to start with, probably
around 30-32 brix
You could try that and use a couple cups as a "sweetener and flavor
additive" to one of your wines I suppose.
>If I add more juice at
> bottling, won't it ferment out in the bottle?
Yes, unless you have fermented the yeast down to the stopping point, or have
otherwise killed the fermentation and stabilized the wine.
>I was also hoping to
> carbonate in the bottle for new years. Any suggestions would be helpful.
Ummmm.........making sparkling wine can be tricky. It can also be messy,
and in some cases it can be dangerous.
There are some pretty good resources on the web, I think the FAQ for this
newsgroup has a pretty good overview. Unless you are pretty confident that
you understand the process and that you are comfortable with what you are
doing, I recommend that you wait until you get experience under your belt.
But then, hey it's a free country. One point though, make sure that you
use champagne bottles and not regular wine bottles. If you knew that
already, don't be offended.
dewey
Dewey & Lucy Thompson
Cider uses an alcohol content of 8% or less. Wine is greater than 8%.
Typically ale yeast is used for cider, however other yeasts are used as
well.
Dewey
Elliot E. Hirsch, Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com
I suppose I was aiming for a strong beer-like cider, sort of like Scrumpy -
a drink I had when I was overseas. If I use ale yeast in my next batch,
will the liquid clear or will it remain cloudy, like fresh pressed cider? I
was thinking that I could stop the ferment about ten days before I bottle
(beginning of December) and then at that time add some fresh cider to taste-
this was a quick wine to be consumed over the holidays - . This is not
going to sit in a cellar for more than a month or two at most. Hopefully it
won't survive the holidays. If I bottle some of the cider before I stop the
fermentation somehow, and add fresh cider at the bottling time, this should
wind up with a carbonated drink in a week or two, correct?
Thanks again for all the advice in advance...I'm really learning as I go.
Vinbrew Supply
You can add sweetner when you bottle. this will bring the apple flavor back
out. YOu might also have to add some citric acid when you bottle.
Personally this year I think you should settle for sweet apple wine. To
sparkle and make it sweet at this point gets a little tedious.(certaily
doubtfull that would be ready for this new year.) UNLESS of course you have
a soda canister and some CO2..then you can force carb it.
When you do add sugar (at bottling time is my recomondation) you will need
to add Sorbate and SULPHITE. The Sorbate prevents renewed fermentation and
the Sulphite will prevent a Malo-Lactic fermentation. Which would be deadly
to apple wine...
wrote in message news:3a0639cc$1...@corp.newsfeeds.com...
> I am making hard apple cider for the first time. My batch has been going
> for about 13 days primary and it tastes like real dry white wine (extra
dry
> Korbel champagne for example). Is there any way to retain some sweetness
> and apple taste in the still-sweet batch I started 5 days ago? Can I add
> sweetness and apple taste? More juice at bottling? If I add more juice
at
> bottling, won't it ferment out in the bottle? I was also hoping to
> carbonate in the bottle for new years. Any suggestions would be helpful.
>
Elliot E. Hirsch, Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com
>
> I suppose I was aiming for a strong beer-like cider, sort of like
Scrumpy -
> a drink I had when I was overseas. If I use ale yeast in my next batch,
> will the liquid clear or will it remain cloudy, like fresh pressed cider?
I
> was thinking that I could stop the ferment about ten days before I bottle
> (beginning of December) and then at that time add some fresh cider to
taste-
> this was a quick wine to be consumed over the holidays - . This is not
> going to sit in a cellar for more than a month or two at most. Hopefully
it
> won't survive the holidays. If I bottle some of the cider before I stop
the
> fermentation somehow, and add fresh cider at the bottling time, this
should
> wind up with a carbonated drink in a week or two, correct?
>
> Thanks again for all the advice in advance...I'm really learning as I go.
>
Elliot E. Hirsch, Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com
sugar to 5 gal of cider (minus the cider space taken up by the sugar). I
used a highly alcohol tolerant yeast very similar to champain yeast. Invert
sugar syrup - what's that? How long does the cider take to clear? also a
racking question. When I siphon off the cider from the sediment, there is
some cider lost in the process, on top of the siediment in the old carboy.
Am I supposed to top off the new carboy with fresh cider or just leave it
with space at the top and an airlock? If I stop frementation at the desired
taste I like, will the cider still clear or will it be hazy? Do homebrew
places filter wine for people? Expensive?
Thank you all,
Elliot
--
Elliot E. Hirsch
Publisher & Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com
hir...@learnersnetwork.com
"Dewey & Lucy Thompson" <dltho...@socket.net> wrote in message
news:t0ei68n...@corp.supernews.com...
> > I am making hard apple cider for the first time. My batch has been
going
> > for about 13 days primary and it tastes like real dry white wine (extra
> dry
> > Korbel champagne for example).
>
> The apple wines that I have made generally all taste like what you
describe,
> as I ferment them down to very dry. Can't be of much use to you without
> specific information.
>
> What was your starting specific gravity? (do you have a hydrometer?)
>
> How much sugar did you add?
>
> What yeast did you add?
>
> >Is there any way to retain some sweetness and apple taste in the
> still-sweet batch I started 5 days ago?
> >Can I add sweetness and apple taste? More juice at bottling?
>
>
> sweetness maybe, apple taste probably not. Depending on the amount of
sugar
> you added and the finishing point of the yeast you used. Personally, I
> would let it clear, then bottle it. Add invert sugar syrup to taste when
> using. This keeps the fermentation from restarting.
>
> I make wine from cider all the time, I have some fermenting
> now.........It will be a light, slightly fruity white wine.
>
> Jack Keller's website has some pretty good full bodied apple wine recipes,
> http://winemaking.jackkeller.net/recipes.asp
>
> I am toying with the idea of making a "dessert" style apple wine from
cider
> by freezing the cider to mush and straining it, repeating as necessary to
> get the specific gravity (sugar content) that I want to start with,
probably
> around 30-32 brix
>
> You could try that and use a couple cups as a "sweetener and flavor
> additive" to one of your wines I suppose.
>
>
> >If I add more juice at
> > bottling, won't it ferment out in the bottle?
>
> Yes, unless you have fermented the yeast down to the stopping point, or
have
> otherwise killed the fermentation and stabilized the wine.
>
> >I was also hoping to
> > carbonate in the bottle for new years. Any suggestions would be
helpful.
>
> Ummmm.........making sparkling wine can be tricky. It can also be messy,
> and in some cases it can be dangerous.
>
> There are some pretty good resources on the web, I think the FAQ for this
> newsgroup has a pretty good overview. Unless you are pretty confident
that
> you understand the process and that you are comfortable with what you are
> doing, I recommend that you wait until you get experience under your belt.
> But then, hey it's a free country. One point though, make sure that you
> use champagne bottles and not regular wine bottles. If you knew that
> already, don't be offended.
>
> dewey
>
>
>
>
>
Eddie Vanderzeeuw
Be very careful with the amount of cider or sugar you use for bottling you
carbonated apple wine (hard cider).If you use Champagne bottles use about 1 cup
of sugar for 6 gallon or the equivalent in cider. For beer bottles use about 1
1/4 cup of sugar for 6 gallon or the equivalent in cider. Cider has about 1 lb
of sugar per gallon.
This may look like a small amount of sugar but it is enough to get about 35 psi
pressure. This is the normal pressure for beer and sparkling wine. Much more and
you are making bombs.
The apple wine should carbonate in 2 to 3 weeks. Do not use more then 10 to 20
ppm sulphites and no sorbate allowed.
Eddie V.
"Elliot E. Hirsch, Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com" wrote:
> Thank you all for the information.
>
> I suppose I was aiming for a strong beer-like cider, sort of like Scrumpy -
> a drink I had when I was overseas. If I use ale yeast in my next batch,
> will the liquid clear or will it remain cloudy, like fresh pressed cider? I
> was thinking that I could stop the ferment about ten days before I bottle
> (beginning of December) and then at that time add some fresh cider to taste-
> this was a quick wine to be consumed over the holidays - . This is not
> going to sit in a cellar for more than a month or two at most. Hopefully it
> won't survive the holidays. If I bottle some of the cider before I stop the
> fermentation somehow, and add fresh cider at the bottling time, this should
> wind up with a carbonated drink in a week or two, correct?
>
> Thanks again for all the advice in advance...I'm really learning as I go.
>
> --
> Elliot E. Hirsch
> Publisher & Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com
> hir...@learnersnetwork.com
>
> www.learnersnetwork.com
>
Dewey & Lucy Thompson
> sugar to 5 gal of cider (minus the cider space taken up by the sugar). I
> used a highly alcohol tolerant yeast very similar to champain yeast.
Mmmmm....... 1.07 before, or after adding the sugar????????? 1.07 is about
9%-10% potential alcohol. If you added five pounds of sugar after this, you
should have about 1.115 or so gravity, about 15%-16% alcohol........If you
added five pounds to GET to 1.07, you had pretty puny cider.........
Fermenting from 10% PA with champagne yeast will indeed give you a very dry
wine.
>Invert
> sugar syrup - what's that?
Invert sugar is what the yeasties eat. It is a chemical change to the sugar
molecule within the solution in the presence of acid. You can make invert
sugar by boiling water, sugar, and lemon juice........I don't have a
specific recipe at hand just now.
>How long does the cider take to clear?
It can stay cloudy forever due to pectin. Did you add pectin enzyme?
>also a
> racking question. When I siphon off the cider from the sediment, there is
> some cider lost in the process, on top of the siediment in the old carboy.
> Am I supposed to top off the new carboy with fresh cider or just leave it
> with space at the top and an airlock?
It is generally recommended that you fill the carboy as full as you can get
it to limit oxygen uptake tothe wine. You can do this several ways. 1. use
water or fresh cider (dilutes the wine), 2. Use wine if you have some, 3.
use marbles to increase the liquid level (sterilize them). 4. Rack to a
smaller carboy (I have some 3 and 2.87 gallon, and some 1.1 and 1.0 gallon
carboys).......
> If I stop frementation at the desired
> taste I like, will the cider still clear or will it be hazy?
settling out can take months, even without pectin problems. Check out the
newsgroup FAQ on clearing wine.
>Do homebrew
> places filter wine for people? Expensive?
I assume so, and I have no clue on the cost.
Dewey
David Reece
<dltho...@socket.net> wrote:
>>Invert
>> sugar syrup - what's that?
>
>Invert sugar is what the yeasties eat. It is a chemical change to the sugar
>molecule within the solution in the presence of acid. You can make invert
>sugar by boiling water, sugar, and lemon juice........I don't have a
>specific recipe at hand just now.
Here's what has been suggested here for inverted sugar for sweetening
wines.
50 grams sugar
1 gram citric acid
water to make 100 ml
David Reece
Elliot E. Hirsch, Editor-in-Chief, LearnersNetwork.com
granulatd sugar into one of the smaller gallon jugs of cider I have. The
thing went crazy immediately and foamed all over the place like dropping
baking soda into a glass of vinegar. What happened?
Pavel
> >> sugar syrup - what's that?
> >
> >Invert sugar is what the yeasties eat. It is a chemical change to the sugar
> >molecule within the solution in the presence of acid. You can make invert
> >sugar by boiling water, sugar, and lemon juice........I don't have a
> >specific recipe at hand just now.
I took a few chemistry classes many years ago and this sounds familiar. Is
inversion of sugar one of those "cis" and "trans" things, where a radical flops
from the right to left side of a molecule?
David C Breeden
>> >>Invert
>> >> sugar syrup - what's that?
>> >
>> >Invert sugar is what the yeasties eat. It is a chemical change to the sugar
>> >molecule within the solution in the presence of acid. You can make invert
>> >sugar by boiling water, sugar, and lemon juice........I don't have a
>> >specific recipe at hand just now.
>I took a few chemistry classes many years ago and this sounds familiar. Is
>inversion of sugar one of those "cis" and "trans" things, where a radical flops
>from the right to left side of a molecule?
Nope, much simpler. It's just the splitting of sucrose, a
disaccharide, to glucose and fructose, two monosaccharideas.
Dave
****************************************************************************
Dave Breeden bre...@lightlink.com
Greg Cook
wrote:
> > >>Invert
> > >> sugar syrup - what's that?
> > >
> > >Invert sugar is what the yeasties eat. It is a chemical change to the
> > >sugar
> > >molecule within the solution in the presence of acid. You can make invert
> > >sugar by boiling water, sugar, and lemon juice........I don't have a
> > >specific recipe at hand just now.
>
> I took a few chemistry classes many years ago and this sounds familiar. Is
> inversion of sugar one of those "cis" and "trans" things, where a radical
> flops
> from the right to left side of a molecule?
AAAAAH! This proves a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. As a
professor of organic chemistry, I can assure you that "radicals
flopping from right to left" have nothing to do with those "cis trans
things". And I certainly don't want to know that my students probably
remember what I taught them the same way!! :)
Anyway, sugar often comes as multiple sugar molecules bound together.
For example, sucrose (table sugar) is two sugar molecules connected
together. When boiled with acid (lemon juice), the larger sugar
molecules break apart into individual sugar molecules. This is what
the yeasts eat. In wine fermentation, this breaking apart also takes
place, but at a slower pace than in boiling acidic media.
Greg
Dewey & Lucy Thompson
> granulatd sugar into one of the smaller gallon jugs of cider I have. The
> thing went crazy immediately and foamed all over the place like dropping
> baking soda into a glass of vinegar. What happened?
Ohhhhhh coooooool.........I don't know the precise cause, but I've done
exactly the same thing, and got exactly the same results. So if I was the
one to convince you to drop in sugar, so sorry.........
I "think" it has something to do with the sugar granules dissolving in the
carbonated wine releasing gas. Just a guess carbon dioxide.I have also
seen boilover when stirred the wrong way during secondary
fermentation.............
The way to prevent the boilover is to use invert sugar syrup or honey.
You can make invert sugar by boiling 2 cups sugar in four cups water with
juice of one small lemon. Well, you could use an "invertase enzyme". Also,
I have seen it written that corn sugar can be used, but it's a bit less
sweet. (Personally I wouldn't).
Dewey
Dewey & Lucy Thompson
I dug up a recipe for invert sugar, a bit more precise than the other one I
posted last night.
8 lb of sugar
2 pt water
½ oz citric acid
Bring slowly to the boil, stir frequently
Boil for 30 mins
Stir in another 2 pt boiling water and allow to cool.
Store in jars.
When using allow 1¼ pints in place of each lb of household sugar.
Remember that each 4 pints will already contain ¼ oz of citric acid.
Dewey