Cherry Port wine -- is this recipe about right?
Dave Allison
I found Sweet cherries real cheap today. Bought 17 pounds to make 2
gallons of port. I'll probably do 17 pints of water so I end up with 2
gallons. Since I've done so many KITS, I added Bentonite at the
beginning like many kits do. Thanks for any insights, I really
appreciate it.
Would love your inputs and thoughts:
Here is what I think is a good recipe:
Cherry Port (2 gallon recipe)
• 1 tsp Bentonite
• 16 lbs sweet eating cherries
• 1 banana (& ½ pound raisins)
• 7 lbs sugar (to S.G. 1.140+)
• 14 ½ pints water
•
• 3 tsp citric acid
• 1 tsp tannin
• 2 tsp pectic enzyme
• 2 tsp yeast nutrient
• Port wine yeast
• Later:
o Sorbate to stablize
o add 75ml brandy? An idea.
Bring water to boil, add Bentonite slowly stirring until dissolved.
Meanwhile, de-stem, wash and crush the cherries in the primary without
breaking any stones. Pour sugar over cherries, mashed banana and
raisins. Pour the boiling water over the mix and stir well to dissolve.
Cover and set aside until cool. Add remaining ingredients except yeast;
cover and set aside for 12 hours. S.G. >1.120-1.150Add activated yeast
and ferment 5 days. Strain juice into dark secondary and discard pulp
and stones. S.G. <1.060 ?Add 1 pound sugar, stir. Rack after 30 days and
again when wine clears. S.G.~1.060 After two additional months (S.G.
1.030) stabilize, wait 10 days, rack, wait 20 additional days, rack
until clear, then bottle, and store in dark place for 1 year.
frederick ploegman
No !! The first recipe had only a single mistake that could be
corrected in either of two ways. What you have here is so full
of mistakes I wouldn't even know where to begin !! A real
disaster just waiting to happen.
Go to Jack's site, find a recipe, and follow it. HTH
Frederick
PS - Stem and pit the cherries before you start. You don't ever
want cherry pits in a must.
"Dave Allison" <DAxve...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:1BDii.188$yD...@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
Dave Allison
That bad, ugh? smile. Well, it was from Jack's site, but I modified it
based on other PORT recipes (guess I should not experiment). Jack's site
says I don't have to remove the stone, but I will if you think it best.
Jack's site doesn't have cherry port, but 4 cherry wines - 2 sweet and 2
dry.
http://www.geocities.com/lumeisenman/chapt21.html
The winemaker's manual above has a Berry port recipe, but not with
Cherry's. If I attempt that one with cherry's, I'll have to get an acid
tester (I knew I should have gotten one prior)
Since my below recipe is fraught with errors, I must continue my search.
I'd rather take a few days to search, than to start a batch with a bad
recipe, so thanks, Frederick for the review. :*)
really...thanks!
DAve
spud
Decision:
1. Do you want to ferment to the capacity of your yeast ~18% then
fortify to 20% abv.
OR
2. Halt fermentation at some point (~1.012 SG residual sugars) with
the addition of everclear or brandy to 20% abv. This method is
traditional. Note the addition of spirits will dilute the residual
sugar down to some 'normal' level for port.
My findings for finished port so far are 20% abv and +/- 1.007 SG for
residual sugar. Not sure on the acids but you may have read the
thread I asked about TA.
Ports are aged in oak and they definately can take oaking. Boiling
the fruit may make the cherry more 'port like' in the finished
product. Not sure about that though.
Shoot for 20% abv, 1.006 or 1.007 SG residual sugar. TA to taste and
oak. The rest is up to you.
Steve
Oregon
Dave Allison
pp
> David:
>
> Decision:
>
> 1. Do you want to ferment to the capacity of your yeast ~18% then
> fortify to 20% abv.
>
> OR
>
> 2. Halt fermentation at some point (~1.012 SG residual sugars) with
> the addition of everclear or brandy to 20% abv. This method is
> traditional. Note the addition of spirits will dilute the residual
> sugar down to some 'normal' level for port.
>
> My findings for finished port so far are 20% abv and +/- 1.007 SG for
> residual sugar. Not sure on the acids but you may have read the
> thread I asked about TA.
>
> Ports are aged in oak and they definately can take oaking. Boiling
> the fruit may make the cherry more 'port like' in the finished
> product. Not sure about that though.
>
> Shoot for 20% abv, 1.006 or 1.007 SG residual sugar. TA to taste and
> oak. The rest is up to you.
>
> Steve
> Oregon
>
Are you sure about the residual sugar numbers? I would expect
something between 1.025-1.040 (or 7-10 B). As for oak, the casks used
for port are old wood and 900L volume so they don't really add any oak
taste.
Pp
Shane Badham
> Hi!
>
> I found Sweet cherries real cheap today. Bought 17 pounds to make 2
> gallons of port. I'll probably do 17 pints of water so I end up with 2
> gallons. Since I've done so many KITS, I added Bentonite at the
> beginning like many kits do. Thanks for any insights, I really
> appreciate it.
>
> Would love your inputs and thoughts:
>
>
> Here is what I think is a good recipe:
>
> Cherry Port (2 gallon recipe)
>
> • 1 tsp Bentonite
> • 16 lbs sweet eating cherries
> • 1 banana (& ? pound raisins)
> • 7 lbs sugar (to S.G. 1.140+)
> • 14 ? pints water
> •
> • 3 tsp citric acid
> • 1 tsp tannin
> • 2 tsp pectic enzyme
> • 2 tsp yeast nutrient
> • Port wine yeast
> • Later:
> o Sorbate to stablize
> o add 75ml brandy? An idea.
>
> Bring water to boil, add Bentonite slowly stirring until dissolved.
> Meanwhile, de-stem, wash and crush the cherries in the primary without
> breaking any stones. Pour sugar over cherries, mashed banana and
> raisins. Pour the boiling water over the mix and stir well to dissolve.
> Cover and set aside until cool. Add remaining ingredients except yeast;
> cover and set aside for 12 hours. S.G. >1.120-1.150Add activated yeast
> and ferment 5 days. Strain juice into dark secondary and discard pulp
> and stones. S.G. <1.060 ?Add 1 pound sugar, stir. Rack after 30 days and
> again when wine clears. S.G.~1.060 After two additional months (S.G.
> 1.030) stabilize, wait 10 days, rack, wait 20 additional days, rack
> until clear, then bottle, and store in dark place for 1 year.
Another point, after the initial ferment, I would not add all that sugar
at once. I usually keep a check on the SG as it ferments and add sugar
syrup in quarter pints over a longer period.
--
Thanks and regards, Shane.
"A closed mouth gathers no feet!"
Email: Beware the invalid word! shane at wonk dot demon dot co dot uk
Website: http://www.wonk.demon.co.uk/
Dave Allison
As i stated above, I have to rethink the recipe, but since I can't find
a Cherry Port at the regular sites, I will need to continue my search.
I like the thought of adding slowly all that sugar, as I've killed yeast
before by adding to much. thanks. DAve
spud
Hell no I'm not sure that's why I am asking and reading also. But yes
you're right. I was talking SG and thinking Brix. Good eye, thanks!
Concerning Oaking, Amerine (p161) says about California ports: "...a
period of contact with small seasoned white oak heartwood chips may be
used to give a portion of the wine a slight oaky taste...the prefered
practice is...wooden cooperage for four to six years." Maybe your
thinkin' of 'crusty' port, pp?
My understanding is the Scotch guys use the 'old wood' port cooperage
for their aging. The port guys and the scotch guys can't both use old
port barrels, eh? ;-)
Please tell me what you know!!!!
Take Care
Steve
Oregon
Dave Allison
I now have a BRIX to S.G. chart (http://www.fermsoft.com/gravbrix.php),
a PH tester (Henna), and more knowledge than I've had on the chemistry
of wine making than ever!
The Cherry Port recipe mentioned below, is intially 1.106 S.G. with a
3.2 PH. I pre-pitched the yeast in 3/4 cup of the must - and it is going
gang-busters! I will add when the must has cooled down from all the
boiling water added. P. Cuvee was the yeast most mentioned for PORT, (or
EC1118) so I used that.
I know I may give fredrick a heart-attack, but here is the recipe, which
I followed almost exactly, thanks to the Home WineMakers Manual - bless
who ever maintains that!
http://www.geocities.com/lumeisenman/chapt21.html
I used the Berry Port recipe and used Cherries instead - watching the PH
and S.G. closely as I added the sugar and other ingredients.
I will add oak essence liquid later to give it the oak flavor... maybe
1-2 ounces. (says 4 oz for 20 gallons, so need only a little) Must and
water is now at 6 gallons in volume.
thanks all for your insights, this helped me a lot. I'll let you know
how it goes.
DAve
spud
Dave:
I used Premier Cuvee as well and got the abv up to ~18% before the
yeast quit. I will be adding everclear to 20% abv. Since I'm not
filtering I fear adding sugar then bottling up port grenades. Yikes
what a mess that would be. Just a thought.
Steve
Oregon
Dave Allison
monitor the S.G. down to 1.020 and then add sugar over and over, this
takes more care than kit wines. smile.
I'm heading to Tennessee today, maybe they have everclear... hmm.
Once I had Apple Cider wine push the corks out, but didn't explode, just
pushed up the cork and leaked.
Steve, let me know how your's turns out.
DAve
pp
> Dave:
>
> I used Premier Cuvee as well and got the abv up to ~18% before the
> yeast quit. I will be adding everclear to 20% abv. Since I'm not
> filtering I fear adding sugar then bottling up port grenades. Yikes
> what a mess that would be. Just a thought.
>
> Steve
> Oregon
>
If you get that high in alcohol (18%), you don't need to worry about
refermentation, especially if you're still adding alcohol. The high
alcohol level together with the high residual sugar and depleted
nutrients make the environment hostile to the remaining yeast. I
wouldn't add any sorbates, just keep it in bulk over one summer at
least, that should make it fully stable, and it help the wine anyway.
Pp
spud
Cool, I wasn't going to add sorbate, fortifiy to 20% abv instead for
stability.
It's plum, having a tough time clearing. Tried sparkoloid, no good.
Tried ~ 1 tsp pectic enzyme in the 3 gallons. Maybe did some good.
Will let it sit for a week or so before I do anything else.
Any tips fo clearing plum?
Take Care
Steve
Oregon
Dave Allison
I ended up with two (2/3rds full) 3 gallon carboys. The S.G. dropped to
1.008 (or less) today so I took out 1/2 gallon from each and added 4
cups of sugar - which put them back to 1.040+. The bubbling picked up
nicely again. I will do this a couple more times, though the recipe says
"do it until it stays at 1.000" which makes no sense to me. So I'll
calculate the alcohol level and when it gets to 16%-18%, I will stop. I
found Everclear in Tennessee
so can raise it to 20%. I have to do some Googling to figure out how to
do that. i think I'll end up with 3 gallons when the lees are removed.
I assume for calculating alcohol I would do this:
initial S.G.
S.G. prior to sugar addition.
add those.
new S.G. after sugar
add S.G. prior to sugar addition.
when done add those sums up.
Hope that makes sense.
more later,
DAve
spud
That might be a bit much sugar at one 'feeding' for both the yeast and
your sugar levels. But, I don't really know.
I was a little more conservative, if fermentation doesn't restart on
one of the additions then you may end up with a way too sweet port.
I added sugar to 6 Brix at each feeding and ended up with a calulated
abv of 18%. When it finally clears I'll go to 20% abv with everclear
and sugar to ~ 5 Brix then adjust to taste.
Use Pearson's square for everclear additions. DAGS of: wine pearsons
square, turned up 500,000 hits.
Take Care
Steve
Oregon
On Fri, 13 Jul 2007 19:13:48 -0400, Dave Allison
Dave Allison
that is good advice.
Thanks for the Pearson's square words to search on. !!
The port is bubbling again and today is down to S.G. 1.020.
More later,
DAve
spud
Steve
Oregon
On Sat, 14 Jul 2007 11:32:00 -0400, Dave Allison
Dave Allison
The bubbling has just about stopped (a bubble each 90 seconds), so I
racked again into carboys (a 3 gallon, 1 gallon, 2 liter, and a 750ml)
to ensure it was topped up without airspace. I racked must and all after
stirring for 2 minutes. The S.G. is now at 1.022, a little sweeter than
I'd like. Maybe in a month it will go down some more. Figuring out the
alcohol seems straight forward, but here goes.
Original 1.106 = 13.9
dropped to 1.008 = .9
added sugar to 1.030 = 3.9
dropped to 1.016 = 2.0
added sugar to 1.030 = 3.9
is at today 1.022 = 2.8
So I think this calculates to:
original: 13.9- .9 = 13.0 %
1st add: 3.9-2.0 = 1.9 %
2nd add: 3.9-2.8 = 1.1 %
--------
16.0 % alcohol
Acid levels remain at 3.1. It tastes great though a little sweet. Hoping
it drops more over the next few weeks, and will balance out with the
everclear I add to get it up to 18%+. (going to Google Pearson's square
when I get closer to this step)
I only post progress since this is a new recipe not on other sites and
wanted to give feedback on progress, I hope it's not boring. smile.
DAve
frederick ploegman
There is an easier way that can save you some of that
number crunching. Only use your interim readings to
provide yourself with an adjusted OG (AOG). In this
example, OG 1.106 plus a total of 36 gravity points of
added sugar gives an AOG of 1.142. You can then use
this AOG for your calculations.
1.142 minus 1.022 equals 120 points of sugar used so far.
Instead of number crunching, just pick up your triple scale
hydrometer and use it to cross reference 1.120 to the PA
scale. You will see that it gives you ~15.9% alcohol, which
is what all your number crunching told you.
Some folks would accept this estimate as 'good enough',
but geeky old farts like me would say that it failed to
recognize the effect of alcohol on post pitch SG readings.
To compensate for this I would subtract 10 points from the
'sugar used' number. 120 minus 10 equals 110. I would
then go back to my hydrometer and cross reference
SG 1.110 to the PA scale and find that I had closer to
14.6% ABV in the wine when that ISG 1.022 reading
was taken.
It's up to you, but Pearson's square won't do you much
good if you_over_estimate alcohol by 1.4%. HTH
Frederick
"Dave Allison" <DAxve...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:cW4oi.598$x72...@bignews1.bellsouth.net...
frederick ploegman
"frederick ploegman" <ploe...@innernet.net> wrote in message
news:9bmdnQYJ27KTqDbb...@innernet.net...
>
> It's up to you, but Pearson's square won't do you much
> good if you_over_estimate alcohol by 1.4%. HTH
>
> Frederick
That's 1.4%ABV.
spud
According to the chart on Jack Kellers Website you're a little over 6
Brix and haven't fortified yet. That''s close! The everclear
addition may dilute the sweetness too or below your target level.
But, everclear is 95% abv and brandy 40% abv. You'd use 2-3/8 times
the brandy to boost the alcohol level of the port vs everclear.
Would using brandy instead of everclear possibly dilute the sweet,
giving you some room to work with? You'll need to pencil this out to
tell.
Steve
Oregon
On Fri, 20 Jul 2007 11:55:48 -0400, Dave Allison
Dave Allison
I will noodle over these inputs. This really helps.
I'll rack, taste and decide. wow. what I learn on this NG.
DAve
spud
Keep us posted on your trials. As you've probably found there's not a
whole lot at this ng about port winemaking. Everything you post goes
into the archives at Google and can be retrieved by you, me and anyone
else for future reference. I use this site a lot for my info
gathering, so do a lot of folks, like you for instance. Your cherry
port progression is good stuff for reference!
Take Care
Steve
Oregon
On Mon, 30 Jul 2007 20:53:16 -0400, Dave Allison
Dave Allison
Dave Allison
Today, the S.G. is still 1.022 and no more bubbles. (I now wish I had
been slower on the sugar adding, cause this is sweeter than it should
be). Using Pearson's square formula - I'm calculating, but not adding
today, how much I need to fortify the wine.
Today I racked it off the lees - which was about 1/5 of the contents.
The Cherry Port, racked, is now about 18 - 750ML bottles worth and
pretty clear, so I won't lose much as it settles. One 3 gallon carboy,
one 1.5 L and one 750ML bottles worth of precious fluid. :*)
Using Pearson's Square formula (forgive the graphic attempt)
95% 5.4
\ /
\ /
20%
/ \
/ \
14.6% 75
So 5.4 units of everclear per 75 units of port would result 20% abv.
That is about 90% of a bottle of everclear for these 18 bottles.
Then I tried this portion to the few ounces of left over that didn't fit
in the carboys. Cut the sweet nicely.
I then did the same Pearson's square formula with 40% brandy - and
again, tried this to some left over - tasted like a sherry (what do I
know what a sherry tastes like, but it was warmer and fuzzier - or maybe
my head was warmer and fuzzier from alcohol so early in the day).
So I am not sure yet which I will use. Another racking or four and
another taste test.
But again, thanks for your inputs and insights. This Cherry Port is real
good, wish I had made 6 or 18 gallons! smile.
DAve
Dave Allison
stable at 1.020 for the past 9 days. A little sweet. As I pencil this
out - I know nothing of brandy - is there any better brandies to use to
fortify Cherry Port over other brandies? Oddly, there is a lot of space
for brandy in the ABC liquor store here in NC. Who drinks this stuff?
haha. Any suggested brands or types, please post. thanks.
I may also do a little of brandy and little of everclear - not sure yet.
One thing for sure - it has a GREAT taste (a little sweet but that will
reduce when I add the brandy/everclear), well worth the effort.
This may beat my elderberry port or my blueberry port, of which the
later is bubbling down it's last time.
DAve
Dave Allison
The Cherry port is very clear and stable. Today I racked off a slight
1/8 inch or less of sediment and worked out how to fortify it. Taking
taste samples - I had one sample straight, one with (using Pearson
Square formula for how much) everclear, one with brandy, and finally,
one with a portion of brandy and portion of everclear. The best result
was the last! The brandy cut the sweetness some, but the everclear
enhanced the flavor. So using two sheets of paper to formulate it all
out - I added almost 500 ml of everclear and 500 ml of brandy for the 17
bottles of port. Mixed and set aside for a month to ensure it stays clear.
It is very clear, very dark red, but needs aging to get the harshness
and "nose" mellowed out.
I will bottle in a month or when I'm sure it won't cloud up, and store
away for a year.
Hope port makers will share any experiences, as I am thinking these
fruit ports are wonderful.
DAve
Joe Sallustio
I never made a port but did do some sherry; I used everclear too. The
brandy I keep around is EJ VSOP (Gallo). It's cheap and I think it
tastes fine.
Keep in the back of your mind when a winemaking text tells you they
add 'brandy' it's usually closer to everclear than brandy from a
store. They distill marc or junk wines to make a concentrated alcohol
which probably tastes closer to moonshine or real grappa than brandy.
They don't age it in oak; it's just used to fortify the wine. Sounds
like it was a nice experiment.
I get to Spartanburg SC once in a while if you are close to there.
Joe
pp
>
> It is very clear, very dark red, but needs aging to get the harshness
> and "nose" mellowed out.
>
Just a note of caution on bottling this early. I've done several port-
style wines from fruit (raspberry, elderberry, blueberry, mixed berry)
and in my experience, it takes at least 2 years for the wines to stop
throwing sediment. Raspberry seems particularly bad this way - I
bottled some batches that looked crystaL clear after 1 year but ended
up cloudy in the bottle with a very fine sediment. So these days I
look at 2 years aging minimum - this has the advantage of letting the
alcohol and sugar meld together and do any finetuning on those if
needed - the balance can change significantly from the early stages.
Pp
Dave Allison
guess I could wait that long, but wow.
DAve
Dave Allison
the x's from the above email and if you are in that area this fall, let
me know. Sometimes I am in Charlotte, which is real close. Maybe a swap
of a couple bottles. :*)
Thanks for the info about the brandy - it was a great taste test that my
wife and I hoovered over for a while - deciding what everclear or brandy
brought to the port.
If you ever do make a port, I highly recommend cherry, as it cleared so
much nicer than my blueberry or elderberry.
DAve
spud
What interests me is the last statement, " the balance can change
significantly from the early stages".
Are there any consistent changes in flavors, nose, whatever in ports
over time? Less sweet, less alcohol burn over timeor more what?
Steve
Oregon
pp
will develop as for regular wines. Especially if you use high proof
alcohol like Everclear, it can take a year or more before the alcohol
blends with the rest of the wine. A good port will last years so it is
a great wine to age and observe how it develops and figure out at
which stage one likes it best.
Pp
Joe Sallustio
> alcohol like Everclear, it can take a year or more before the alcohol
> blends with the rest of the wine.
Funny you should mention that. I noticed some Limoncello I made last
year is less 'sharp' now. I did not expect that. I only noticed
because I just made more and was comparing them.
Joe
Dick Adams
> someone wrote
My Limoncellos are not sharp at all. My recipe is
- Soak the zests of 16 thick-skinned lemons in 1.75
liters of Vodka for six weeks.
- Stir 5 lbs of table sugar into 3 qts of boiling water.
- Add sugar water and another 1.75 liters of Vodka
- Wait another six weeks and bottle.
After Quality Assurance Testing, you should have about
9 750 ml bottles.
But don't trash the zests. Add them to the secondary
of homemade beer. Mead, or wine.
I've also have an Orangecello in the works.
Admittedly Everclear give you a higher ABV, but I
suspect more sugar water might help.
Dick
Joe Sallustio
Dick,
You are right, I actually switched to vodka after trading a few posts
with Bill Frazier. It does give a smoother end product. We are going
to make another batch soon so we will give yours a shot.
Let us know how the Orangecello works out. I just did some limes with
Everclear and water and I really don't think it's worth the effort.
It tastes fine but drinking something that green seems a little
weird. It looks like something Scotty would drink on Star Trek.
Joe
Dick Adams
> rdad...@panix.com (Dick Adams) wrote:
>> Joe Sallustio <joe_sa...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> someone wrote
>>>> Especially if you use high proof
>>>> alcohol like Everclear, it can take a year or more before the alcohol
>>>> blends with the rest of the wine.
>>> Funny you should mention that. I noticed some Limoncello
>>> I made last year is less 'sharp' now. I did not expect
>>> that. I only noticed because I just made more and was
>>> comparing them.
>> My Limoncellos are not sharp at all. My recipe is
>> - Soak the zests of 16 thick-skinned lemons in 1.75
>> liters of Vodka for six weeks.
>> - Stir 5 lbs of table sugar into 3 qts of boiling water.
>> - Add sugar water and another 1.75 liters of Vodka
>> - Wait another six weeks and bottle.
>>
>> After Quality Assurance Testing, you should have about
>> 9 750 ml bottles.
>>
>> But don't trash the zests. Add them to the secondary
>> of homemade beer. Mead, or wine.
>>
>> I've also have an Orangecello in the works.
>>
>> Admittedly Everclear give you a higher ABV, but I
>> suspect more sugar water might help.
> You are right, I actually switched to vodka after trading
> a few posts with Bill Frazier. It does give a smoother
> end product. We are going to make another batch soon so
> we will give yours a shot.
Only if you are a married man, can you fully appreciate
someone acknowledging that you are right. ;)
> Let us know how the Orangecello works out.
You can make book on my reporting the results.
> I just did some limes with Everclear and water and I really
> don't think it's worth the effort. It tastes fine but
> drinking something that green seems a little weird.
I declined to try limes even though someone else was
paying for the fruit because the ones I have seen
are not thick skinned, i.e., possibly too much junk
comes off with the zests.
> It looks like something Scotty would drink on Star Trek.
Whoa! The actor wo portrays him may or may not be a good
actor, but no reason to besmearch either he or his
character. Maybe it was something the character of the
infamous Harry Mudd would have relished!
Dave Allison
The Cherry Port has remained clear. when someone says 2 years of bulk
aging - do I rack it every 3-120 days or just let it sit for 2 years?
DAve
p.s. hope this isn't a dumb question - just learning.
spud
You know as much as I do, but if it's clear right now then I'd let it
just sit. If there was lots of build up in 6 months or a year then I
might be inclined to rack.
What's a lot? 1/4" to 3/8" of some yuck I don't know where it came
from, maybe...
:-)
Take Care
Steve
Dave Allison
plan. So that is nice to have it stated by someone else also.
thanks, DAve