Choke Cherry wine, how good is it?
Wayne Zacharias
waste my time!
Tkachuk
Ron
Wayne Zacharias wrote in message
<5914-37B...@newsd-162.iap.bryant.webtv.net>...
Oldman
has 25 lbs wild natural choke cherries/10 gallon fermentation pot.
I never liked the domesticated variety of choke cherry not much
flavour to it.
The choke cherry wine is one of the best sellers around here.
The darker (blaker/riper) the choke cherry the better the wine will
be.
here's our tried and true recipie.
10 gallon fermantation container
about 12 lbs of frozen choke cherries
about 12 lbs or fresh unfrozen choke cherries
10 lbs of sugar
1 lemon 1 orange
and 2 large soup bowls of pre risen yeast.
Note after being bottle this takes 8-12 months to be ready to drink
pour into the 10 gal container the suagar
add 1/2 the container with "hot"water
add the frozen choke cherries
and stir
now add the unfrozen remaining unfrozen cherries to the container and
stir
Add cold water to fill the remaining container to 3/4 or 7/8 's full
slice thinly the orange and lemon and place in the container and stir.
In a standard large soup bown place some warm water and some sugar
stir to get the sugar desolved then sprinkle 3-5 tbsp of yeast int
the bowl and stir well . Let sit covered with a pie plate in a warm
place for 15-20 mins remove the pie plate and you should see a nice
fluffy cloud .
Now take the bowl and pour the yeast innto the container with the
cherries and fruit mix well and deep making certain that you are
getting everything from the bottom of the container mixed as well.
Perform the yeast in the soup bowl one more time and mix it again into
the container with the cherries .
close up your contaner and let ferment for 3 weeks stiring well twice
per days.
Note: the reason for the frozen choke cherries is that they burst open
when they come in contact with the hot water frezzeng also
consentrates the sugar in the choke cherries and improoves on the
fermentation process.
Also note that: the amount of suagr and yeast is indeed necessary fore
wild cherries (choke cherries) do not posses the fermentation and
active enzimes thier domisticated cousins posses, Choke Cherries
repoduce mostly by tiny airborn seeds produced by the flowers in sping
that is why you see some namy new choke cherry trees in early summer
the seed in a ripe choke cherry almost never grows unless it helped
along.
The spring seeds of a wild choke cherry look like tiny tuffs of cotton
and take to growing like dandylions.
Oldman
Phil Loseth
> Someone told me it was really good, so I picked 20lbs, hope I didn't
>waste my time!
Here in central Saskatchewan, grapes won't grow, but we have an
abundance of chokecherries. Here's my most recent recipe.
15 lb chokecherries (frozen)
4 lb raisins
12.5 lb sugar
2.5 tps acid blend
2.5 tsp pectic enzyme
*1.5 tsp Rapidase Ex colour enzyme
5 tsp yeast nutrient
5 campden tablets
**Hot water to bring to 5 Imp. Gallon (23 L)
***1 pkg Red Star Cote des Blancs yeast
*(Note 1: the olour enzyme is optional, but I believe it improves the
product's flavour as well as colour. I obtained the "Rapidase Ex"
from Presque Isle. I would still like to find a North American
supplier who carries "Rohament P" enzyme ... Farma Import in Belgium
carries it but the shipping cost is prohibitive)
**(Note 2: If making 5 US gallons (19 L), reduce ingredients by about
20%)
***(Note 3: I've also used Lalvin EC1118 yeast, but prefer the
fruitier taste with the Cote des Blancs yeast)
Thaw chokecherries, crush by hand. Take care not to break the pits or
a bitter taste will result. Chop raisins. Add all other ingredients.
Add yeast when must has reached acceptable temperature range.
Other chokecherry wine recipes that have been posted to
rec.crafts.winemaking over the years can be downloaded from Don
Buchan's ftp site:
ftp://ftp.cam.org/users/malak/wine/choke.zip
Good luck,
Phil L
To reply, remove KILLJUNK from address.
Jim Lincoln
"choke cherry"?
Jim L.
Oldman
as full size scaned images of the actual choke cherries.
http://rivendell.fortunecity.com/xentar/199/cc.htm
Enjoy
Old man
Mdmbdumont
as full size scaned images of the actual choke cherries.>
I just took the time to look at the pictures, those look just like some of the
berries that our parents told us where poison when we were younger....go
figure..
Michael
What a Long Strange Trip it's been
Oldman
You know those berries I ate them. they were very good.
You are most likely correct. Perhaps down south there are
berry producing plants that look like choke cherries.
Some poisonous plant do have some resenblences to choke cherries or
pin cherries . However the differences are great.
I've yet to see in the wild any plant that has a near inditinguishable
look to a choke cherry at least up here in the north.
Old Man.
Phil Loseth
Lincoln) wrote:
> Alright, I'll try it, just tell me one thing ----- _WHAT_ is a
>"choke cherry"?
In addition to the web page that Old Man posted, you can find another
picture of chokecherries (Prunus virginiana) at
http://www.ag.usask.ca/departments/plsc/nfdp/photos/ck.jpg
Chokecherries are very astringent, and most people don't enjoy eating
them raw. However they make nice jellies, syrups and wine. Young
chokecherry wine can be quite harsh, greatly improving with age.
Note: The book "Plants of the Western Boreal Forest & Aspen Parkland"
(Johnson et al. 1995) states that the stones contain hydrocyanic acid,
and there are reports of people dying from cyanide poisoning after
eating large quantities of chokecherry berries without removing the
stones.
Oldman
However dark red or black (ripe) chokecherries are not
as much "astringent" you mouth and throat still pucker a little
however when ripe the chocherries are quite sweet and smooth.
Correct .. Well any wine that is young is astringent , some Choke
Cherry wine recipies include chopped or scliced fruit (trpoical or
common sun fruit) such as oranges, nectarines, peaches, lemons,
e.t..c. this will remove between 80-99% of the astringent taste, also
the citric acid of the lemons and oranges acts like a peptic enzyme.
Peronaly I do not like the idea of Campden tablets or additves , and
for the most part niether does any one else in my region .
Some say that the campden tablets intensify the flavour of wine.
I'd say this is true to a point. However after a certain point it
would be like buying cans of frozen welches concentrated grape juice
and making wine from that , and yes dilute well it's very very strong.
Some say that campden tablets allow the wine to either age quicker or
last longer once bottled... Well that's indeed debatable.
I've found 30 year old bottles of wine that are incredibly good and
no campden tablets were used back then.
Old man
Phil Loseth
>Correct.
>
>However dark red or black (ripe) chokecherries are not
>as much "astringent" you mouth and throat still pucker a little
>however when ripe the chocherries are quite sweet and smooth.
Agreed. I always wait until after the first hard frost to pick
chokecherries (chokecherry ice wine?).
>Correct .. Well any wine that is young is astringent , some Choke
>Cherry wine recipies include chopped or scliced fruit (trpoical or
>common sun fruit) such as oranges, nectarines, peaches, lemons,
>e.t..c. this will remove between 80-99% of the astringent taste, also
>the citric acid of the lemons and oranges acts like a peptic enzyme.
The recipe I posted includes some raisins. I've also used bananas.
I've always used acid blend rather than lemons or oranges. Maybe
someday I'll try adding lemons or oranges, but I think I'd probably
use them sparingly, and supplement with tartaric acid..
>Peronaly I do not like the idea of Campden tablets or additves , and
>for the most part niether does any one else in my region .
>
>Some say that the campden tablets intensify the flavour of wine.
>I'd say this is true to a point. However after a certain point it
>would be like buying cans of frozen welches concentrated grape juice
>and making wine from that , and yes dilute well it's very very strong.
>
>Some say that campden tablets allow the wine to either age quicker or
>last longer once bottled... Well that's indeed debatable.
>
>I've found 30 year old bottles of wine that are incredibly good and
>no campden tablets were used back then.
I went through a "no sulphites" phase, but I've returned to using
metabisulphite. I can't comment on whether sulphites intensify the
flavour, but I do believe they do a good job as a preservative. A
couple of my sulphite-less batches showed noticeable oxidation. One
was quite pleasant, with a sherry taste, but the other was really
disappointing. Some recipes call for two campden tablets per gallon,
I use just one tablet/gallon (Imperial).
Whatever suits your taste buds. After all this is more art than
science.
Oldman
oooops! I forgot to add that to the recipie I posted earlier.
Your right about the sulphating of wines, however I've rarely seen it
around here. though the water around here is high in Ironsulfide
(canadian shield) does not affect the wine in any way.
There was an article in the WineArt newsletter about boiling your
corks , I've tried it and it actualy works it seals the bottle
better and allows less oxidization.
So far in the normal corking I've never has realy any noticiable
oxidization in the wine however I do tend ot fill the bottles to the
extreme being that there is no air space below the cork ..
It has always worked..
I have had on two occasions had wine that turned to chapagne without
even trying.
I tried pumpkin wine. It's and aquired taste. the first batch went
well many liked it . however the next two batches were from frozen
pieces of pumpkin the wine went well it fermented ,stopped, cleared
and all but once bottled after abotu 4 months it began to react
again and well "DO not open" is more than just a sugestion , the
wine did not spoil or start fermenting again it just got all gassy
and explodes just like champagne.
Go figure.
Eric Decker
>>Chokecherries are very astringent, and most people don't enjoy eating
>>them raw. However they make nice jellies, syrups and wine. Young
>>chokecherry wine can be quite harsh, greatly improving with age.
imho, pressing the fruit would make for a superior cc wine. Had some last year
that had so much "stone' flavour (hydrocyanic acid) that the wine was barely
tolerable. Don't know if aging alone will ease that one.
Oldman
Actualy pressing Choke cherries is a nono.. the pits are far to
easily crushed.
I've never had a acidy choke cherry wine yet.
You can boil and make concentrate with the choke cherries however you
must about double the number of choke cherries . Otherwise your wine
will look like a rose or white wine with red food coloring added to
it.
From what you have said it sounds like the choke cherry nuts were
split open hench the "stony" taste.. I have tried small test batches
and yes the nuts once opened literaly made the wine unpalletable.
Old man
Phil Loseth
Decker) wrote:
>imho, pressing the fruit would make for a superior cc wine. Had some last year
>that had so much "stone' flavour (hydrocyanic acid) that the wine was barely
>tolerable. Don't know if aging alone will ease that one.
I agree with Old Man's warning not to break the stones.
I freeze the chokecherries first, then mash them up by hand (freezing
helps them break down more easily than fresh berries). Don't use a
blender, or you are likely to get more bitter taste from the broken
stones.
I don't recommend boiling the chokecherries, since it will change the
flavour, and you might have more problem with pectic haze.
Eric Decker
>>helps them break down more easily than fresh berries). Don't use a
>>blender, or you are likely to get more bitter taste from the broken
>>stones.
>>
>>I don't recommend boiling the chokecherries, since it will change the
>>flavour, and you might have more problem with pectic haze.
I would not boil or crush - just put them in the press and force the juice.
Stones and skin will be discarded. 5 tons of pressure will do a good job on
getting the juice out but ought not crush the stones. While I have not pressed
chokecherries yet I have pressed apples. Apples seeds are less hard and tough
than chokecherry pits and none have broken. In effect the seeds are cushioned by
the matrix of pulp in the pressing bag.
Oldman
I too freeze the choke cherries well at least 50% of them depending
on the year and availability and numbers of fresh ripe choke cherries.
I tried the boiling trick there is no noticiable difference in
flavour , and no Peptic haze . However I had to use twice the number
of cherries to achieve the same result as direct pressed of whole
choke cherries.
The reason I mentioned the boiling is that it is a way to avoid the
extreme nutty taste choke cherry can some times have. Iworks however
I don't recomend picking another 20+lbs of choke cherries when a bit
of care and patience , freezing and or pressing does an infinitly
better job.
Old Man
On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 19:52:15 GMT, plo...@KILLJUNKlfa.sk.ca (Phil
Loseth) wrote:
>On Sun, 22 Aug 1999 00:03:27 -0400, er...@nospam.getcomputing.com (Eric
>Decker) wrote:
>
>>imho, pressing the fruit would make for a superior cc wine. Had some last year
>>that had so much "stone' flavour (hydrocyanic acid) that the wine was barely
>>tolerable. Don't know if aging alone will ease that one.
>
>I agree with Old Man's warning not to break the stones.
>I freeze the chokecherries first, then mash them up by hand (freezing
>helps them break down more easily than fresh berries). Don't use a
>blender, or you are likely to get more bitter taste from the broken
>stones.
>
>I don't recommend boiling the chokecherries, since it will change the
>flavour, and you might have more problem with pectic haze.
>
