Spinning -- Too much twist
Jon Charles Gilliam
I'm a beginning spinner using a drop spindle, and I'm finding it
difficult to achieve the right degree of twist in my yarn.
It may be because the thickness of my yarn is still varying quite
a bit, making lengths of the yarn that are thinner and tend to kink
up, and thicker parts that seem like they don't have enough twist to
hold them together well.
Any advice to how to achieve a yarn with the right amount of
twist?
:jon
--
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Jon C. Gilliam <JC_Gi...@fccc.edu>
In a free society, standards of public morality can be measured
only by whether physical coercion -- violence against persons or
property -- occurs. There is no right not to be offended by
words, actions or symbols.
-- Richard E. Sincere, Jr.
--
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Jon C. Gilliam <JC_Gi...@fccc.edu>
In a free society, standards of public morality can be measured
only by whether physical coercion -- violence against persons or
Kathreen Kruse
> I'm a beginning spinner using a drop spindle, and I'm finding it
>difficult to achieve the right degree of twist in my yarn.
.snip..
> Any advice to how to achieve a yarn with the right amount of
>twist?
The obvious answer here is, practice. But, I won't say that.
As you noticed, part of the problem is the varing diameter of your
yarns. It is much harder to evenly spin a varigated yarn. I would suggest
you work on your drafting, trying to get the amount of fibre fed more even.
If necessary, hold back the spun yarn a bit while you draft out the fibre.
You may find it helpful to prepare the fibre a bit more before spinning.
Split your batt or roving down into smaller segments and predraft them a
bit. This usually helps the feed even up.
! .--. <-=*=-><-=*=-><-=*=-><-=*=-><-=*=-><-=*=-><-=*=-><-=*-=>
! /_\/_\ !! Kathreen Kruse
! \ /\ /==== Spinning, Dyeing, & Fibre Co-Host
! |`--'| | TEXTILE ARTS FORUM (135) on DELPHI KA...@DELPHI.COM
Noeline McCaughan
: Any advice to how to achieve a yarn with the right amount of
: twist?
Practise, practise, practise..........not very encouraging I know but only
with lots of practise will you become a proficient spinner. Some lucky
folk drop onto the correct ratio of twist right away but the rest (myself
included) just had to slog away at it until it came right.
Don't throw away your primary efforts, I'm sure they can be used in
someones weavings.
Noeline.
Cynthia Teague
>
>
> I'm a beginning spinner using a drop spindle, and I'm finding it
> difficult to achieve the right degree of twist in my yarn.
>
> It may be because the thickness of my yarn is still varying quite
> a bit, making lengths of the yarn that are thinner and tend to kink
> up, and thicker parts that seem like they don't have enough twist to
> hold them together well.
more evenly; then the twist will distribute itself more evenly.
Cynthia Teague
..
Gerry Stacy
> I'm a beginning spinner using a drop spindle, and I'm finding it
>difficult to achieve the right degree of twist in my yarn.
> Any advice to how to achieve a yarn with the right amount of
>twist?
>
I know I'm following this up late, but my news-server has been down, grrr!
I had a horrible time with over-spinning, then under-spinning, trying to
fall into a groove that was comfortable with me when I began. I started
on a Navajo spindle and, like a drop spindle, they're less likely to let
you ignore problems. Well, you've received lots of good advice and some
detailed advice, now here's the other approach...
Relax, have a beer, don't get worked up about it.
I'm serious about the beer part. Part of establishing a dialogue with
the wool is to be relaxed and just let the fiber spin itself. This was
suggested to me by a good friend who'd been spinning for YEARS and swore
that whenever she was having problems with her spinning, a beer or two
would generally clear things up...
...I didn't believe her...
...she was right.
I've done some of my evenest, strongest spinning sitting on my back porch
with friends and a couple beer and good conversation and a nice evening.
It's lots more fun that way, too.
My only other suggestion is to worry FIRST about spinning a thread that
you're pleased with that is not too thick and not too fine. After you've
found that place for yourself, you can start to experiment with heavier
weight thread or finer thread.
Good luck,
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
| Gerry Stacy | Better the honest mistake of the artist, |
| gst...@peabody.jhu.edu | than the cold perfection of the stylist. |
| | |
| @}-,-`-- | Charles Rennie Mackintosh |
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Christine Franquemont
I am a regular and constant drop spindle spinner and offer these ideas
about spin control:
1. Use a very light spindle. I make them out of a drawer pull and dowel,
and sometimes spin with no weight at all. Slower but more precise. Also
allows spinning of very fragile fiber
2. Use a long draw system for wool or silk top. hold your hands about
three feet apart, turn the spindle without dropping it and draft. Spin
collects in the thinner spots and subsequent drafting pulls out the thicker
parts until the entire three foot length is about even density of fiber.
Then the spin imparted distributes evenly acrosss the entire length
3. Spin alot. This is stuff your hands learn, not your head
4. Do like Gerry says, spin in social context so as to not work so hard at
it.
5. Find other people who like to spin on drop spindles and don't treat it
as a poor cousin of a wheel because there are different treats and
challenges.
Ed Franquemont
In article <3fopp4$9...@jhunix1.hcf.jhu.edu>, gst...@gigue.peabody.jhu.edu
Ann E Durham
was trying to spin some cashmere very finely and it didn't take long to
realize that I wasn't enjoying it. I just couldn't get my wheel to do a
gentle enough take-on and ended up being hunched over, joining fiber more
than spinning it, and swearing alot. And I tell people that I spin to
reduce stress! So I switched "machines" to a support spindle and had a
very calming time enjoying that lovely fiber.
--
*An unemployed jester is nobody's fool | Ann Durham
* | Florida State University
* | Tallahassee Florida
Jon Charles Gilliam
Over the weekend, me and my partner became owners of two angora rabbits --
what wonderful bunnies! I've spun some of their hair already, and it makes
the softest yarn.
Anyways, how this relates to my 'too much twist' problem: I've discovered
that I do much better spinning hair than wool -- including dog hair and
the angora hair. With wool I end up with a very inconsistent yarn as I
seemingly overcompensate as I'm worried about it getting too thin or thick.
With the dog hair and angora hair, I end up with a nice, thin, mostly
consistent yarn suitable for plying.
I'm still using the 'drop' spindle, but instead of dropping it, I've
been supporting it on the floor between my feet so that I can slow things
down. This seems to work pretty well.
To all the folks who have responded with so many kind and helpful
reply, I give you my individual and collective thanks. Spinners seem to
be a special group of people.
Bright blessings,
:jon
--
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Jon C. Gilliam <JC_Gi...@fccc.edu>
"Doctrine is nothing but the skin of truth set up and
stuffed." -- H.W. Beecher
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Jon C. Gilliam <JC_Gi...@fccc.edu>
"Doctrine is nothing but the skin of truth set up and
stuffed." -- H.W. Beecher
Verna Knapp
Ann E Durham <adu...@mailer.fsu.edu> wrote:
>I'm throwing in another vote for handspindles. A couple of years ago I
>was trying to spin some cashmere very finely and it didn't take long to
>realize that I wasn't enjoying it. I just couldn't get my wheel to do a
>gentle enough take-on and ended up being hunched over, joining fiber more
>than spinning it, and swearing alot. And I tell people that I spin to
>reduce stress! So I switched "machines" to a support spindle and had a
>very calming time enjoying that lovely fiber.
>--
I have a wheel with scotch tension on it which makes spinning cashmere very
fine a real joy. In fact it works so well that I had my 24" production dual
band wheel converted to scotch tension with a 20:1 spinning ratio. Fast and
fine and no swearing needed. I also had eyelets put on instead of hooks on
the flyer at the end nearest the orifice. This stops the yarn from flying
off the hooks at high speeds. The original wheel is the Fold-N-Tote by
Wallace Van Eaton. He also made the 24" wheel and did the conversions. Great
customer service.
It is harder to control the draw-in with the dual band drive, in my experience.
With the scotch tension it is quite easy. I'm starting to daydream about
doing a wedding ring shawl in cashmere...
Verna
Noeline McCaughan
: I had a horrible time with over-spinning, then under-spinning, trying to
snip
: Relax, have a beer, don't get worked up about it.
I will pass this information on to my daughter, she had been going through
a stressfull time and decided to do some spinning to take her mind off her
problems. I had given her a beautiful medium fine white Romney fleece for
her birthday and she began work with the idea of making enough yarn for a
jersey for herself. She spun away, plied the yarn and dyed batches of
it in pastel pinks, lavendars, greens and blues. When she began to knit
she realised the yarn had far too much twist and the stitches were curling
around on themselves - anyone who has overspun wool and then tried to knit
will know how she would have felt.
The yarn ended up in my hands after she gave up on it, it sat in a box in
my workroom looking prettily at me for eighteen months. Last week after I
had tidied up the room from the chaos left from the usual pre-Christmas
panic to get everything finished I got it down from the shelf and
considered it. The wool itself was good quality, the colours were so
pretty and the overspinning that made it unsuitable for knitting would be
ideal for a warp.
I wove a 44" square lap rug using the yarn (putting the colours in rainbow
order from the middle outwards) as the warp, I sleyed it as closely as
possible (10 epi) even though it gave me a somewhat sticky shed and used a
natural grey/white bulky yarn as the weft. I used an undulating twill
pattern from "The Weaving Book" by Helene Bress. I tied the ends off in a
fringe using four ends in each overhand knot. After washing lightly and
drying flat, it was given a very light brushing with a teazel to bring up
a knap. My daughter was thrilled with the result.
Noeline.
noe...@styx.equinox.gen.nz
Esther Heller
In article <3g0b9o$m...@taurus.fccc.edu>, gil...@rudkin.fccc.edu (Jon Charles Gilliam) writes:
>
>
Major snip happens...
> Over the weekend, me and my partner became owners of two angora rabbits --
>what wonderful bunnies! I've spun some of their hair already, and it makes
>the softest yarn.
>Jon C. Gilliam <JC_Gi...@fccc.edu>
> "Doctrine is nothing but the skin of truth set up and
> stuffed." -- H.W. Beecher
I think it only fair to warn you the 100% angora rabbit sheds incessantly
especially on anything else not totally smooth (jeans, wool skirts, etc, etc).
We had pet rabbits growing up, sheared them a couple times a year, and my
mother spun the results using an old sewing machine motor and foot pedal. I
still have an old sweater long since outgrown packed away. If you could
possibly mix with something else you could have the soft and not shed
quite so much.
Esther Heller e...@raster.kodak.com Of course my opinions are my own!
Interested in: Statistics, software QA, sewing, organic gardening, Hardanger,
knitting, thread crochet, classical music, scratch cooking, woodworking...
The 20th century version of the Proverbs 31 woman.
D Yedinak
hairs but the part that is making such wonderful, soft, fluffy yarn is
really wooly. Look at your bunnies closely and you will see they have
more or less a double coat. Both parts are spinnable and you actually
need to have some guard hair in your wool to make it work right. Enjoy
the buns! I miss mine badly. Dee
D Yedinak
enough you still will get that luscious soft halo and less shedding. The
yarn then needs to be lightly blocked. I also shock mine. That is, I
wash the completed yarn in very hot water and rinse in cooler, (though
not cold water) with NO agitation. (Don't want felt after all.) The
slight shock does slightly felt the fibres, not enough to be seen or felt
by the hand, and the resulting shedding is lessened a lot. Dee
-
D YEDINAK ANY...@prodigy.com also a Rennaisance woman living in the
wrong era
D Yedinak
For those that don't, couldn't you simply either reblock the yarn or
cable it? Either one should remove some of that over twist, shouldn't it?
Inquiring minds......Dee
Jon Charles Gilliam
Dee, thank you for the information!
The references I have advise to 'pluck' the bunny for the best
spinnable fibers, and I plucked the white female (Betty) over the
weekend. She didn't seem to mind it at all -- rather seemed to like
the extended attention.
I spun 38 yards of angora the next day -- about 1/2 an oz. -- thin
enough that I think a 2-ply will make a worsted yarn. That was about
1/2 the wool I plucked from Betty, so it looks like I can expect about
1 oz per 'plucking.'
I carded the wool, although I don't think it was really necessary.
Here, my tendancy to over-twist plays in my favor, as the angora does well
with a bit more twist anyway, from what I've heard.
Later, I may try carding the angora with wool, which I've heard
can help with the 'shedding' problem. I'm hoping that, like you mention,
my tight twist in the yarn can help control it too.
Bright blessings,
:jon
--
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Jon C. Gilliam <JC_Gi...@fccc.edu>
"DNA is a Computer Science problem" -- Nathan Myhrvold (Microsoft)
--
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Jon C. Gilliam <JC_Gi...@fccc.edu>
"DNA is a Computer Science problem" -- Nathan Myhrvold (Microsoft)
Kevin Karplus
|> The references I have advise to 'pluck' the bunny for the best
|> spinnable fibers, and I plucked the white female (Betty) over the
|> weekend. She didn't seem to mind it at all -- rather seemed to like
|> the extended attention.
I've seen a number of references now that advise clipping rather than
plucking Angora rabbits. The staple length is a little less, and the
cut end may be slightly harsher than the plucked end, but the rabbit
is much less likely to get "wool block" (that is, the rabbit is much
less likely to die of hairballs--they can't vomit them up like cats do).
Having never kept Angora rabbits, I really don't know how probable
wool block is.
--
Kevin Karplus kar...@ce.ucsc.edu
Due to budgetary constraints the light at the end of the tunnel is
being turned off.
Helen Fleischer
Gi> I spun 38 yards of angora the next day -- about 1/2 an oz. -- thin
Gi> enough that I think a 2-ply will make a worsted yarn. That was about
Gi> 1/2 the wool I plucked from Betty, so it looks like I can expect about
Gi> 1 oz per 'plucking.'
Gi> I carded the wool, although I don't think it was really necessary.
Gi> Here, my tendancy to over-twist plays in my favor, as the angora does
Gi> well> with a bit more twist anyway, from what I've heard.
Personally, I much prefer to spin my angora carded. I card it on small
cotton cards and make punis by rolling the fiber off the card on a
smooth rod or knitting needle, then sliding that roll off the end of the
rod. Spinning from that allows me to use my usual continuous draft and
makes for a very nice, even yarn that doesn't fluff until I've knit it
(I spin for machine knitting). I also have a few blue ribbons etc, from
state and county fairs to show that such methods produce a yarn that
judges like, too. ;) I wash the skeins in hot water, but I don't weight
them while drying. I always ply angora; usually to itself, but sometimes
to a ply of tightly twisted wool.
... No matter what it is, it's more important than housework.
* Q-Blue 1.0 *
D Yedinak
their wool etc., which I highly recommend you invest in. (One at least).
I alternated plucking and shearing my bunnies. If you pluck
consistently you get more guard hairs and if you shear consistently you
get more wool. What you want is a nice mix. Also, plucking or shearing
should only be done at the time the bunny is ready to release it's fur.
You can tell this because they get an extra fluffy "halo". When this
happens pretty much ALL the fur comes off and you wind up with a bare
bunny! A funny sight but necessary. When you pluck they start to make
these release hormones so the wool just comes out easily and you really
should pluck it all. I got about 4 oz. of wool a year, if my memory
serves me right, from each bunny. Isn't it wonderful to spin?? Bunny fur
blends well with Merino, Rambouillet and a few others and you wind up
with lots more yarn that will feel and look pretty much like pure angora.
I use about 30% because I like a lot of halo but many folk only use
about 20% and still get a fluffy soft yarn. If you can spin angora you
should have no trouble spinning a fine wool fleece like Merino or
Rambouillet. Dee
Gerry Stacy
Jon Charles Gilliam <gil...@rudkin.fccc.edu> wrote:
>
> The references I have advise to 'pluck' the bunny for the best
>spinnable fibers, and I plucked the white female (Betty) over the
>weekend. She didn't seem to mind it at all -- rather seemed to like
>the extended attention.
>
Jon, last spring while I was at the Maryland Sheep and Wool Festival, I
watched a woman spin angora RIGHT OFF THE RABBIT. She just sat at the
wheel with the rabbit in her lap and...well, I'm not sure just how she
did it, but I would've sworn that that rabbit was attached to the thread
on the bobbin.
The rabbit was having a grand time...
So how about THAT for thoughts of carding and blending?
Noeline McCaughan
: Great solution for those that weave, and I bet it is absolutely beautiful.
: For those that don't, couldn't you simply either reblock the yarn or
: cable it? Either one should remove some of that over twist, shouldn't it?
Yes it is beautiful and my daughter is really thrilled to have it draping
nicely over the back of her 2 seater sofa where she can see it all the
time.
No, the excessive twist in the yarn was in the initial spinning and not
the plying so it was set in for good. It probably would have crocheted up
all right but as it was almost a doubleknit weight it would have been too
bulky.
Noeline
Christine Franquemont
(Noeline McCaughan) wrote:
Anne Blinks (bless her) taught us to wind overspun yarn on hair rollers and
steam them for ten minutes or so in a vegetable steamer to "discipline"
them. I usually wind them tight into balls and leave them for a few months
to set the twist and make them usuable. No such thing as too much twist.
Ed Franquemont
Peggy Strang
One batch was so kinky the kinks had kinks? Someone at my first
guild meeting suggested running the singles through the wheel
applying the opposite twist (in this case an S to undo the
excessive Z). I "unspun" two bobbins of twisty singles, then
plied them with plenty more S twist, and it made the softest,
most balanced yarn I'd yet produced. I was working with a very
unforgiving lambswool. I like the yarn so much I created another
two bobbins of overtwisted singles and made more of the soft
stuff.
I've since learned how to treadle a little slower and draft a
little faster and that has helped the overtwisting problem.
Just goes to prove what I've been hearing over and over again
since i started spinning -- there's no such thing as a mistake!
Peggy Strang
Victoria Neff
>Anne Blinks (bless her) taught us to wind overspun yarn on hair rollers and
>steam them for ten minutes or so in a vegetable steamer to "discipline"
>them. I usually wind them tight into balls and leave them for a few months
>to set the twist and make them usuable. No such thing as too much twist.
>Ed Franquemont
If you wind wool yarn tightly, and steam it long enough, you will kill
the twist (and, incidently, any elasticity your yarn may have had). Cooking
like this is the ONLY WAY TO SET TWIST IN WOOL. The ONLY way.
Drying skeins with weights, or rolling tight balls and leaving them, will
only tame the elasticity in wool *until the yarn is washed*. The minute
the yarn gets wet, it will spring back to its original level of twist.
You can imagine the possible effects of this on your garment....
Yarn that has too much spin twist for the ply can be put back through
the spinning wheel to increase the ply twist. Similarly, yarn with
too much ply twist for the spin twist can be put back through (with
the wheel going the spin direction) to reduce ply twist.
Overspun yarns can be harsh, and if properly plied, inelastic. THey
wear well, though, so this might be just what you want for a rug.....
Every yarn has a use, but overspun yarn is not good for all uses,
killed twist or not.
Noeline McCaughan
: I "unspun" two bobbins of twisty singles, then
: plied them with plenty more S twist, and it made the softest,
: most balanced yarn I'd yet produced.
This is the obvious thing to do and providing a plied yarn of overtwisted
singles hasn't been washed it is possible to undo it and reverse spin the
twist out. What you need to do is get hold of two wool winders (mechanical
or human), place the ball of wool in a container at your feet and separate
the ply by winding each thread off simultaneously. If it is a woolen yarn
it is sometimes difficult to separate after washing.
: I've since learned how to treadle a little slower and draft a
: little faster and that has helped the overtwisting problem.
It comes to us all eventually, it took me ages to get a smooth slubless
yarn, now I work away at spinning something slubby to put in my
weaving. :-D
: Just goes to prove what I've been hearing over and over again
: since i started spinning -- there's no such thing as a mistake!
Errmmmmmm? I try and learn something from all of mine, even if it is that
I resolve NEVER to do that particular thing again.
Noeline