Knitted bags in Knitting mags
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
just had Interewaeve Knits [ lovely ] and was amazed as well as
pleased to note that they Too , like Kniter`s had published an idea
for a KNITTED BAG . It is so pleasing to see how Knitting is Flowing
over to Other articles beyond clothes ,
One of the lectures I gave a year ago was " knitting is Not Only a
sweater" Hopefully I can enhance my Ideas !!!!
This year I was asked to spaek again to a group [ Of TEACHERS on
Sabatical course of Evaluating Art !!!! last year i spoke there in
same course to History teachers and Textilized their History a bit
!!!! the woman who asked me to speak , does not know it , But I intend
to speak about the Knitting as an Art form [ Hurray for Acaademic
Freedom]. Since this are teachers I might teach them somestuff they Do
not know . I must say that last year`s class showed to be Uneducated
intheir own material , one insisted on showing mwe some very
amateurish embroidery insisting it WAS very Artistic , i explained to
her that she might embroider artisticly , if she puts some More effort
into it [ not to mention other lacking things i very politely
refrained from telling her, as it was not the place niore the time ]
Many of those History teachers Were SP surprised tolearn that Textile
Has Historical Value that i was surprised by their non knowledge [ to
say it in a polite manner ]. Several were amazed at the heavy
sociuological connections i put on Textile , It rtealy annoyed me at
the end. What and how on earth do they teach history ?
As to this `weird` course evaluating art ! i hope i am not offensive
,,,, but i am sceptic , here are teachers on Sabatical , they get
points in their salaries for taking this course !!!! And i built up a
special lecture relating to this 2 factors [ teachinh history and
evaluating art ] and felt like i spoke in an empty place , later i
heard that they took it as a posiible Fun course !!!! and that my
lecture was the heaviest and most academic thaey got all year.
Some one lent me her Notes !!!!!
"A good Art Work said [ let`s be polite] a professional curator of a
small Well established museum :" is always either painted or
sculptered" . Good Art does not have a story ??????????????
I heard this somewhere else ,,,,,, zoomed in on several other so
called curators.....They are ALL sooooo sure of them selves ,,, and
yes you gueses this all are the people who maintian other Interesting
ideas of course there Is No fiberart ,,,,,,, no Female art , Only
western Art and other Unbelievable ideas like this , so even though i
am not happy with this groups , i still think that representing or
trying to represent Us as fiberartists Is most important.
i show prints , i show my work i show colleagues work ,,,,,, hope it
helps a bit , i am deffinitely going to show some knitted bags as
well !!!!! mirjam
John Lambeth
Magazine. You could ask the editor email chri...@aol.com how to get in
touch with him. The info in one of his books says he is a textile designer
and has specialised in hand and machine knitting. He was instrumental in
establishing the knitting department of the Royal College of Art, London.
but works as a consultant designer, writes books, articles and in general
tries to spread the gospel of knitting. The exhibition at Tilberg is on
until 27th August.
I don't know that I agree that by using other enhancements that the
character of knitting gets lost, I think it shows how versatile and creative
it can be and that the only limit is someone's imagination.
Hope you can get to see it and write one of your word pictures for the rest
of us.
Rita.
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote in message <39445933...@news.actcom.co.il>...
>Thank you Rita !
>But you speak about a magazine or newsletter , i never saw or heard
>about !
>But iam extremely happy you tell me this facts , Is John Allen British
>m how can i contact him or see his work , I am about to travel again
>to my father In Belgium and intend to travel to TILBURG museum `
Lucia liljegren
I have my doubts that engineers consistently call knitting "construction by
the loop method". I am an engineer. I have seen at least 2 presentations
involving knit material used for "engineering" purposes. In both
presentations, the researchers referred to the fabric as "knit".
The first presentation was on the topic of improved batteries. I saw this
about 20 years ago at Argonne National Laboratory where I was a student
intern. The engineers needed a special fabric and were unable to find the
perfect material. Then, one of them saw a secretary knitting. Seeing the
knitting, they asked her some questions. After some discussion, the
researcher put the secretary on the research project, and she knit the
material for the project. (The hand knit material was used for a prototype.
If the prototype went into production, machine knitting would have been
desired.) In the research seminar, the material was called: Knit.
Interestingly, the secretary was cited as a contributor/author to the
research project -- at least during the talk I heard.
Oh-- I was particularly struck by the improved battery knitting seminar
because there were several slides on the knitting. It was a double faced
material so that both sides were "knit" and the material didn't curl. A
purl face was considered undesirable for some reason.
The second presentation was at Pacific Northwest Laboratories. It was a
discussion of heat pipes. A knit material was in the heat pipe. This was a
pre-fab knit material, specially made and designed for wicking. The
material was referred to as "knit".
No one in either research presentation called anything "construction by the
loop method."
Of course it is entirely possible that some engineers refer to knitting as
"construction by the loop method". But, the few times I've seen people show
knitting, I've heard it called knitting. When I've seen woven fabrics, I've
heard them referred to as woven fabric. Laminates are laminates and so on.
Lucia
--
Joined the knit along? Don't know what to do? Check out the instruction
page.....
http://Knitting_fiend.tripod.com/KnitALong.html
----------
> PS Rita! completekly forgot to ask you
>
>>to line airplanes, for filter beds etc.etc. but when men do it it is
>>called - wait for it - engineering a construction by the loop method.
>>Regards - Rita.
>
> In regard with this HOW WOULD THEY HAýVE CALLED PREGNANCY AND GIVING
> BIRTH had it be Done ???? by men ????? mirjam
>
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
And you are probably very lucky since you have met people who were not
afraid to call KNITTING by it`s proper name !!!
But many of us meet peoplwho look DOWN on knitting as such Especially
those of us who DARE to use knitting in an Artistic way !!!!!!
I have seen Knitted material Names as Elastic bandage material !!!
Looped back ground , STrech cloth ,,, and more so ,,all to SEPARATE it
from the traditional SWEATER !!!!
Kristen Welsh
recognized: I was at MassMOCA (Massachusetts Museum of Contemporary Art)
in North Adams, MA just this past Sunday--one installation (and, mea
culpa, I remember *neither* the artist nor the exact title, though the
title was something like "Repose") was centered on a large floor loom that
had yards and yards and yards of weaving flowing from it that eventually
formed the coverlet of a bed. The weaving itself reproduced the artist's
REM graph, which was also displayed. (Sorry I don't know more of the
necessary technical terms: I neither weave nor practice science
professionally!) Imagine one relatively large (15' x 30', maybe) room
with *fiber* as its centerpiece--there it is!
Would the woven cloth itself--sans bed, sans REM recorder--still be
considered art? I'd say yes, but I wonder if the museum curators
would....
Mirjam Bruck Cohen
Thanks for your description , I also had to smile as it
raised a memory. When I first joined a Non Fiber artists group , one of
the comitte members , {who opposed my acceptance as fiberartist} suggested
to me , with a malicious or dangerous light in her eyes that I will make
an `instalation` Of My loom , amd maybe even sit and weave while the
public will watch. Of course I had no wish nore intention of doing This [
Not even taking in consideration, how to move my 8 harness Floor loom of
200 kg,and what it could do to it]. I looked her Straight in the eyes and
said: The day you will put A painter who will publicly Pull hairs our of a
horse`s tail ,,, and demonstrate How he makes His Brushes, I might
consider your idea.
It is really already Boring that whenever Fiberart is shown, There is
always some remerk or reminder about , The Method ibn which it was
constructed, which in away realy says that; Ok we show it to you , But
Remember This IS the Process in which it is Done , so Maybe It is Not
really art,,, or just in case this Is A reminder. In years I have not seen
that next to paintings ,Anyone would Bother or let`s Be bolder DARE show
How paint is manifactured . !!!!!!
Or let`s take it Further , There is another Artistic Technique, In which
The artist Himself , makes part and the rEAl work haapens In A Lbaratorium
, or in the chemicla bath or in The computer ,, and i do not see That EVEN
ONE place Shows This or Puts Such An Inmportance on it , PHOTOGRAPHY , is
taken With the Camera ,but than some Chemical processes are involved ,,,,
did any one SEE any Remark about that , any constant reminder about THE
PROCESSS in which it is Produced,
This Is The Point or measure we as Fiberartist should Learn to check , It
is Ok to mention the name of the technique , Just as one would mention
Aqvarel or Oilpaint , But From than On... THIS ART and it is No
business of exhibiting poers to Constantly remark or show Where and
how it was concieved !
Thus I would say that an exhibition showing the loom as part of the
ART .. unless the artist herself WANTED to do it !!!! really defines
it as craft or technique , not that i have anything against such an
exhibition, But one has to learn to Define between the RESULT and The
Process !!!!!
I know that i staed some heavy or controversial statements here , and
i would love to hear your comments , Please No inflamations. just
intelligent talk ,
I have been busy the last years in enhancing Fiberart and fibercraft
status in Israel , I read and see a lot of material from Usa and
Europe . beingAcceopted as Equals in an esatblished system takes time
, undestanding how the system works thinks ,
LOOK at other social changes we all hope for or saw happening ,
Some of which Happen to us withoput us even being aware of ,
LOOK for example at the Name opf BEJIN , who ever will say now Peking
, like we were brought uyp to say !!!! this is a marvelous exampple
of socioligical change and accaeptance .
>
> Would the woven cloth itself--sans bed, sans REM recorder--still be
> considered art? I'd say yes, but I wonder if the museum curators
> would....
it self , than i would be quite questioning it`s Artistic value even as
part of the instaellation < bUT AS I HAVE NOT SEEN IT I SHOULD NOT JUDGE
IT .
mirjam
Lucia liljegren
I was struck by an idea you describe some others as having. It seems they
believe that knitting can't be art because, sometimes, knitting is used to
make utilitarian items. That is, it sounds like people tell you:
No knitted item is artistic because undershirts are knit simply to be
useful.
However, the general idea is ridiculous. Think about it. If the idea is
valid generally, painting can't result in art. Why not? Because pig sty's,
barns, and outhouses are painted to protect themselves against the elements.
In these cases, painters apply paint for purely utilitarian reasons. (And it
works quite well by the way.)
Heck, I need to hire painters for my house. Let me assure you, I will not be
hiring "artists"! LOL.
By excluding processes that are sometimes used for purely utilitarian
purposes we end up with an infinite list of processes that can't result in
art. By this line of reasoning, I can come up with an incomplete short list
of other processes that can't be art:
Sculpture carved from stone: Rocks are formed and used to make retaining
walls. Therefor Michaelangelo's David is not art.
Sculpture cast from metal: Metal is cast to form tools like screwdrivers.
Therefor none of those bronze sculptures we find in museums are art.
Pottery/China/any fired item: Clay is formed and fired to make simple plates
and dishes. Therefor Wedgewood, and Ming pottery are not art.
Clearly, the fact that a process is used to make purely utilitarian items
doesn't affect whether or not it can be used to make a work of art!
Lucia
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gauge. Lucia's picture modeling the fitted sleeve sweater is now up!
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Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
I do not know where you live , But I do remember that when I lived in
USA Fiberart was still fighting to be recognaized as such, later it
was acepted ,.... but weaving as well as embroidery were More readily
accepted as they can be seen as more As Decoration producing
techniques And Are Less conected [ in people`s Minds] to something
daily as sweaters ,,,, never mind this when my first work was
presented to artist comitte a ceramic sculpture was My biggesrt
opposer ; From Wool you make sweaters Was His `Enlighted` comment !!!!
I could Not resist and answered ; Yes and from Ceramics they make
Toilet sits !!!' Fiberart has gotteen more acacepted now in many
places ,,, but here ....here it still a long way up < i would have
been better Doing TAPESTRY ,preferably traditional technique , than i
would be accepted in category `Artistic wall rugs` Or If I was A wife/
friend / sleeping mate of some celebrity , Than even my colored
swaeters will Be ACCEPTED as This Creative Sweaters [ never miond that
i have seen much more creative abroad , but being Near The VIP s
enhances you in this small country !!!!! [ we are a `BIT Provincial
!!"
But Alas I chose to make My art In several techniques I mix weaving
with aplique and embroidery I knit big format stuff , I do it My way ,
i do waht i feel my art nts to be , and since either they never saw it
or it is confusing , or THEY learned In Their School That XXXX was
XXXX and anyway who am I to break rules and make original art , and as
they do not know the easy way out is , leaning on the process and
saying ,, yes BUT this is Not an artistic process !!!!
Fiberartist who manges to get exhibitions m iimidiadely Drop the name
fiber , they get extremely annoyed whenb ever i call their work FIBER.
The cxountry is small we have many social tasks , and many talented
people , and many stories to tell , so there is a lot of competition ,
thus excluding a big coming up group [ who happens also to be mainly
female] And who strangely enough Attracts enormous crowds to everty
exhibition , anf thus seems a threat to Conventional Art Hegemony .
easiest way to get rid of is by the oldest human way ..... when people
are afraid by the strange , the new ,,, they demonize it , first say
it does not exist , it is a one time phenoimena , than they put it
down , it is not art , it is ,,,,, the maker is not an artist ,. the
material , the tecxhnique ,. One [ used to be important ] Art critique
is constantly getting at us ,,,, and she still is not convinces , but
she keeps preaching that Cloth or textile is art ONLY WHEN IT IS
PAINTED ,,, ie a painted Dress On canvass might be art Because it has
been painted , A sculptured Dress shows The sensitivity of cloth in
it`s folds but a REAL fiber art worjk Made from textile CAN NOT BE ART
, in one of her articles she based it on the ancient story of Philnius
The Roman Historian , That tells about a painter who painted such real
looking flowers that birds came to it [ quite unlikely as you all know
] . Now This woman curated an exhibition , The Man & and his dress in
art , in her statement on the wall , she states that clothes have
become LATELY more and more important in Art ,,,,,,,, [ POOR ME and I
always IMAGINED that ALL the Classic Pictures Were With CLOTHED /
Dressed People and that it was streesed as paert of ther status etc..]
She thinks textile can be used when you paint it , or clean your
Brush,
Yes As YOU UNDERSTOOD WELL people in fact Do say this , and yes Like
you i put the point of saying Ok than paint is used For painting walls
as well
As I said Lucia ! it is a matter of education , of being open minded ,
funny enough even betrween my fellow local fiberartists I get some
shaking [ in wonder heads] as to why i bother , some weavers and
mainly some [ traditional CREATIVE embroidery artists when they see my
Very different work might say ,,, ; OH you do not Know how to
embroider !!! nevervrealizing I use my knowledge in nOt doing exactly
according to rules , my art knows waht it wants to be , my finishes
are sometimnes Not straight ...... sometime i let threads Hang out ON
PURPOSE , this is confusing to some people ,,,,,,
mirjam
J
Mirjam,
Gosh you sure made me THINK - that piece on artistry is soooo correct.
I'd never thought about it before. I'm known as a "craftswoman" and people
are always asking me to teach them my skills - and how I hate doing that
because it takes up so much time (and often they're not REALLY interested in
learning) - I consider myself more of an artist/designer - and who would
dream of asking a designer for their design before the catwalk??? I
certainly agree with you - the task is not the same as the design!!! That
will stick with me forever I guess. :o)))
Josephine
--
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http://www.fruitcats.co.uk
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A Ferszt
J wrote:
>
> Mirjam,
>
> Gosh you sure made me THINK - that piece on artistry is soooo correct.
> I'd never thought about it before. I'm known as a "craftswoman" and people
> are always asking me to teach them my skills - and how I hate doing that
> because it takes up so much time (and often they're not REALLY interested in
> learning) - I consider myself more of an artist/designer - and who would
> dream of asking a designer for their design before the catwalk??? I
> certainly agree with you - the task is not the same as the design!!! That
> will stick with me forever I guess. :o)))
>
> Josephine
But why do you not charge people for your time in teaching?
That's what I do. If someone seriously wants to learn
something from me, they can pay. If they don't wish to pay,
that's up to them and I'm not wasting my time.
I make exceptions for children of course.
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Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
I did not know i came ovedr to people at all , Here i speak and show
and sometimes feel like i hit my head on the wall ....
like this man who is shown a car and he keeps asking where they Tie
the Horse !!! some people will answer me , So You Knit/ weave .
crochet ..... But waht iS artistic about It ?????
My little daughter Just Made The MONNA LISSA
Now This I call Artistic !!!!! End of speech of one neighbour ,!!!!
and on the other side , i have met a woman who sells ARTISTIC cushions
... she Buys in markets old embroideries and has two girls who sew
those over plain cotton cushions, whicgh she than resells [ or tries
to resell ] for a HIGH price as Artistic cushions !!!
but when she saw some of my art works , she said ` I am, Obssesive .
starngely enough this was a result of a work i made from 3 different
pink ribons in which i crocheted in tradional way , but Much bigger ]
Life sized the heads [ profille] of an Artist Friend facing His Model
, back grounf\d in pink 1, He in Pink 2 , and she in pink 3 background
in mesh , His profile includes the letters of His name , and her
profile includes a Rose since her name is Susans [ ShoShana = Rose in
HeBrew . as well as other works ,,,,,, it was a complete dreamy work
,,, and had to do with me being friends with both of them and i
thought it was befitting the kind of art he made relating to her , as
he always yuses a kind of Seemingly Bourgois background , uses Lovely
textiles as backgrounds it was so natural to do this ,,,,
So was ths Art , yes was craft ,It was done within the concept and
Idea of Craft , but the immense size and the designing mase it into
Art. it is when westrees a point in the piece , enlarge and take it
oout of the CRAfted every day tradition , than it is or might turn art
, Dear Laurie , we did not write this Rules they were imposed On us ,
andf the best wev could do is Break the old ideas one by one , by
doing works like this !!!!
In this time and age if i wil call myself Crafter , even Master
crafter Nobody will take my work seriously !!! and i am an artist I
design amnd make My own ideas Just as my Fellow artists paint ,
sculpture etc>>>>>>
mirjam
Laurie Graham
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen wrote in message <snip>
>, Dear Laurie , we did not write this Rules they were imposed On us ,
>andf the best wev could do is Break the old ideas one by one , by
>doing works like this !!!!
>In this time and age if i wil call myself Crafter , even Master
>crafter Nobody will take my work seriously !!! and i am an artist I
>design amnd make My own ideas Just as my Fellow artists paint ,
>sculpture etc>>>>>>
>mirjam
Mirjam,
I didn't mean to imply that your work is not art -- you are definately an
artist, so why would you call yourself anything but?!! But the others,
these people you talk about who call themselves artists -- they're
craftspeople! Why is it so bad to be a craftsperson? I agree, they muddy
the waters and give serious artists a bad name. Ahhh, well, I guess we
won't change the world (well, maybe -- I'll try to infuence my kids at
least!). We're not likely to answer the "What Is Art?" question here --
that's something philosophers will still be debating generations from now as
they were generations ago!
Laurie
Off to debate whether or not musicians are really artists w/ DH (a
musician.)
Mirjam Bruck-Cohen
called Performing artists !!!! :>:>:>:>
As for me irt would have never botherd me so much , hadn`t I lived in
a society that is so tottaly unaware of a lot of Artistic terns as
they are contemporarily USED NOW , in other places , I am sometimes
not botherd at all with the definition , but than along comes
someboduy, better connected than Me through family or money
connections and Voila The land Juornalists sing the parise of her work
in terms that even majkkes them look ridiculus [ and some know it and
say it ] Or when a KnoW nothing person tells me I am just a knitting
Woman , i usually say i am proud to be that , but when my art is being
smeared i get oion my feet to deffend it . i belong to a group of
fiberartis whio have to realy fight for minimal Established
recognition. while the public Walks and comes to everyt exhibition we
organize , the critics won`t come to our exhbitions , but a well
Establishmental painter will glue a fraction of cloth onto her work
she will get parised aqs Going In the Footsteps of Female Needle
artists.
A whole issue of a mag published by Israel Museum , was given to
speaking about Cloth In Art !! They wrote about Stone folds In
sculpture about painter 1 painting cloth about paintress painting
woven material , But Not One Fibersrtist , not one person who realy
Works with it , and No wonder several years ago we organized an
interbnational congress about Fiberart , within this 4 exhbitions were
organized , One of which showedpeople who painted cloth, clothes etc
,,,,I was angry and told the organizer of this part that since this
congress was organized to enhance the status of Fiberart this Part was
not needed and in fact disturbing , she said that withiout this No
serious critic will come ,,,, THus Her favorite critic came and as i
predicted Used this part of the congress to demonize the Fiberart
conception , since The Internationl participants did not read Hebrew I
was asked to translate it , and since i was traveling i had lots of
time to read reread it , It was a scandalous article < thus i wrote
aletter to the critic , who never bothered to answer , and when i
called the newspaper I was Told ; That she was a very Decent person [
Since She was not in Banking < i did Not see the point , but it seems
that the week after it she invented a non existing USA mag that
supposedly wrote badkly about an israeli curator and she was taken to
court and expelled from the mag. Nowadays same woman Curated an
exhibition Man and His Dress In art , It is Needless to Tell you that
it is In her way , thus Noreal clothes Nofiberart Must pictures and
stuff , No relation to either art either clothes < the woman has No
idea , but She has a Status !!!!! bad thing is the likes of her
influence others !!!!
In this athmosphere I live !!! There are people here who will use the
name but are No fiberartis But they insisrt They Are , thus I am so
Touchy and cautious To actuaally use the proper terms [ which i am
always if I can !!!] mirjam