Quilt destruction in Houston
Susanna Farkas
permission to repost her original QuiltArt post to RCTQ and she subsequently
posted the following paragraph.
----------------------------------
<snip>I do whole-heartedly support the ongoing education of the public and
retail venues of this incident. I know I don't ever want to see him
vending at another show. <snip>
----------------------------------
Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:34:58 -0600
From: Arlene Blackburn
Subject: Houston IQF Tragedy
Good evening to everyone...It has been a rough one this evening for
me...
I just walked in the door from Houston and received a telephone call
from the organizers of the Houston/International Quilt Festival show and
spoke with a detective from the Houston Sheriff's Department. They
informed me that tonight after the close of the show, they caught Dan
Puckett (Design-A-Quilt) throwing bleach on my show quilt, "Midnight in
the Garden of Good and Elvis." The quilt is ruined. Dan has been
arrested and will face felony charges. They had Dan in custody, as they
had apprehended him right at my quilt. I will pursue his prosecution to
see that he is punished to the full extent of the law. See what happens
when you do business with this man.
Arlene
RMcC
story here. Want to tell us?
Rose
"Susanna Farkas" <sus...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:B9EC45E1.39EA6%sus...@mindspring.com...
Lizzy Taylor
Who is this criminal? Arlene has my deepest sympathies. How could
anybody purporting to be part of the quilting world (as I presume he is
from the comment on him being a vendor) do such a dreadful thing to
somebody else's work? The mind boggles.
Lizzy
--
Lizzy Taylor
http://www.thetaylorfamily.org.uk/
Julia Altshuler
I asked that question too when I saw the letter on the QuiltArt list. The
quiltmaker had bought quilting equipment from the alleged quilt destroyer. It
started fire when in ordinary operation. The quiltmaker contacted the owner of
the company who, after considerable run-around, replaced the equipment. The
replacement gave her a nasty electrical shock. The owner did nothing about
medical bills or refunding money. She took him to court and won a judgment. He
declared bankruptcy allegedly to avoid paying the judgment and reopened his
business immediately afterwards under a different name. Then he allegedly threw
bleach on her quilt at the Houston show. The evidence against him is
considerable. I say allegedly because someone accused of a crime in the United
States is presumed innocent unless/until found guilty in a court of law. Right
now he's accused. The quiltmaker is pursuing justice through all legal
avenues. That's both civil and criminal.
--Lia
Ronnie Wexler
company", that's Puckett?
Ronnie
In article <3DC6E04A...@attbi.com>, Julia Altshuler
Cyndi Meows
If and when this gets to court, Arlene will win hands down and may get more
compensation than she asks for because Design a Quilt didnt compensate her
for the medical bills related to the shock. Ask for 5 times what it's
worth.
My heart breaks for you as you look at your quilt. You are getting a gentle
virtual hug from all of us on RCTQ.
Don't wash it or do anything to it; you will need to show it to the court as
is.
Cyndi
Cyndi Meows
Cyndi Meows
Susanna Farkas
> Is there a photo (pre destruction) of the quilt for us to see?
I don't know! If I didn't have such a slow connection I'd check, but I will
try to check at work tomorrow.
Lia summed up the whole situation nicely, and yeah, Dan Puckett is the owner
of the company (Design-A-Quilt) and is the alleged quilt destroyer. Another
quilt in the area was also damaged by the bleach.
I just want to clarify that I don't know Arlene, nor am I involved in any of
this...I just saw her post and was heartbroken and wanted people to know.
Susanna in CT
Cyndi Meows
and quilter we can get to listen to this story so that no one will ever
patronize Design a Quilt again. He deserves jail time and permanent
bankruptcy.
Cyndi
Julia Altshuler
is a new term for me. If you're venting anger and saying he deserves permanent
bankruptcy in the same way one might say he deserves a thousand years or pushing
a boulder up a hill with his nose only to see it roll down again when it reaches
the top, then I agree. If you're saying permanent bankruptcy to mean that he
should never be allowed to earn another dollar again, please remember that this
is the United States we're talking about. We don't have debtors' prisons. Nor
slavery.
--Lia
Diana Curtis
was given into this quilt. How heartbreaking it is thta in this world there
are people who hate beauty enough to destroy it.
Diana
--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44
"Cyndi Meows" wrote
> If you want to see the quilt that was destroyed, go to
www.deltafiberart.com
(Click on gallery)
Elena
left.
What an awful deed. The quilt was gorgeous. I hope justice is indeed,
done.
Elena noting that the damage is still alleged, but the concept of an act is
still horrifying.
"Cyndi Meows" <Me...@stopcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:CaScnXdwY-F...@comcast.com...
Cyndi Meows
I think he should not be allowed to cry bankruptcy in order to avoid paying
compensation to people who are injured by their products, like Arlene was.
He was successful at that trick once already concerning Arlene. I think he
should not be able to slip out from paying her and others compensation and
keep closing his business under one name and reopening it in another name
and keep harming consumers. Yeah, I know, it happens all the time, but i
don't think it's right. By permanently bankrupt, I mean that he should not
be able to reopen another business once he files bankruptcy to avoid paying
compensation, and thus being a responsible merchant, to consumers harmed
directly by his products. That's what I want to happen, but that's not
what's going to happen. I have, myself, had dealings with local businesses
that pull the same tricks to get out of paying court judgements and such.
It's something about the US laws I wish were changed so that consumers would
be protected from toilet sludge like Dan Puckett.
Cyndi
Kathy Applebaum
> Am I being nosy . . . what brought that behaviour on? Sounds like there's a
> story here. Want to tell us?
She had the bad fortune to receive a defective product from him (the
machine caught fire during use), sued him when he wouldn't make good on
it, and won the lawsuit. Seems he might be slightly miffed. :(
--
Kathy Applebaum (Woodland, CA)
longarm machine quilting
mailto:Kat...@NOSPAM-KayneyQuilting.com
remove the obvious to reply
ChaCha
>
This quilt is even more beautiful in person. I had the honor of helping to
hang it. So sad...
"I'm a happy person. You're Santa Claus. . .on Prozac. . .at Disney World. .
.getting laid!" Phoebe Buffay
Keeper of Casey Affleck and Matt Damon
Grandma
seems at the minute. As Julia rightly points out, this is America and the
man is innocent - even with his hands caught in the virtual cookie jar -
until a court of law says he is guilty. We can all write whatever we want
about the situation in this thread and it is free speech, but should anyone
decide to take it upon themselves to deliberately notify every quilt shop
owner/guild in the country about these allegations - even if that person is
a witness to the act of him destroying the quilt - then that person could be
sued by the "gentleman" in question for slander &/or libel and the
deliberate destruction of his business. And he would likely win - private
correspondence isn't covered by freedom of the press in the same way that an
article about the incident in a newspaper would be.
The real B**** of the thing is that if he did indeed declare bankruptcy and
had an attorney smart enough to specifically negate the lady's claims (and
others too of course) of damage from the shocks, etc. - likely, given that
she had a court judgement - then that would have been wiped out in the
bankruptcy, meaning she can't get ANY damages for that event at all.
And no matter how beautiful the quilt, she may very well be up against the
same thing so many of us are when quilts are lost or destroyed - the
insurance company pays to the extent of the cost of the materials unless she
is really, really famous for her quilts in some way that would give them
extra value because they were made specifically by her.
TOTAL bummer - and I hope the DA prosecutes him. Willful destruction is
usually nothing more than a slap on the wrist though.
"Cyndi Meows" <Me...@stopcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:YpGdnVxblfk...@comcast.com...
Ronnie Wexler
passes, or has passed, he will still have to make restitution, no
matter what his new business name is.
Ronnie
In article <aKednRkMlo6...@comcast.com>, Cyndi Meows
Kees Mom
mean-spirited evil man to do such a thing. There is not enough punishment
that will make Arlene feel better. This is truly a violation of the spirit!
Me sitting here dumbstruck! :(((
--
Deb Partridge
Kees Mom in Richmond, VA
Don't sell crazy here; we're all stocked up.
Remove kissoff to reply personally
quail...@kissoff.attbi.com
"Cyndi Meows" <Me...@stopcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:CaScnXdwY-F...@comcast.com...
Grandma
the US bankruptcy laws are written the way that they are in that regard.
About the only thing that someone cannot bankrupt on under nearly any
circumstance is child support. The biggest reason is that bankruptcy is
supposed to be a "fresh start" with a clean slate. If you couldn't get rid
of court judgements most folks that truly do deserve a fresh start would be
unable to get one.
My question is how he managed to get out of bankruptcy with both the patent
to the machine and a supply of them to sell, since he would have had to do
either a complete dissolution of the company - which would wipe out all of
the debt but also all of the stock and assets like the patent, or a
reorganization, which means the lady should have gotten something (usually
10 to 20 cents on the dollar) as "payment" of the court judgement.
"Cyndi Meows" <Me...@stopcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:aKednRkMlo6...@comcast.com...
Julia Altshuler
destroyer" and "the quiltmaker" (also he and she).
If the alleged quilt destroyer did declare bankruptcy for the purpose of fraud
(getting out of paying the judgment), that's a crime. The quiltmaker's lawyers
are on top of that.
Even if the bankruptcy were legit, the bleach crime comes afterwards. So he
could still be found liable for the cost of the quilt. He'd have to declare
bankruptcy a 2nd time to get out of the 2nd judgment.
The bleach crime just happened so I know the quiltmaker is talking to her
lawyers and getting advice. The criminal aspects of the crime would be in the
hands of the sheriff's office. I don't know the exact term, but I imagine it's
something along the lines of willfull destruction of property or vandalism. The
civil aspects of the crime are up to her and her lawyers. She's a well-known
quilt artist who, I'm sure, was able to insure the quilt for its worth, not just
the cost of materials.
I'm looking for some moral in this for the rest of us and drawing a blank. Know
that there are evil vengeful violent irrational people out there and hope we
don't meet too many in our lives? That's the best I can come up with.
--Lia
Grandma
bankrupted. Changes to the bankruptcy law are never retroactive - the
courts would be clogged redoing bankruptcies for centuries.
About the only hope is that if she could prove some kind of bad intent,
deliberate witholding of assets on his bankruptcy statements or that she was
not notified. In those cases she might be able to get the bankruptcy
overturned.
"Ronnie Wexler" <rwe...@tias.com> wrote in message
news:041120021538556280%rwe...@tias.com...
Kathy Riley
What is equally disturbing is that, if you go to his website, and click on the
"fish hyphens" in his logo, you get to read subliminal Christian messages.
It seems to me that many a hateful act has been committed by so-called
"religious" people. I seem to remember some of this same type of people
stealing a few planes and crashing them into some tall buildings a little over
a year ago...
What a tragedy.
Kathy
"Work like you don't need money, love like you've never been hurt....and dance
like no one's watching !"
dale
katq...@aol.com says...
Is the evil-doer actually associated with the company behind
www.designaquilt.com ? I would not want to destroy someone's business if
they happen to share the same name but have no other association. On the
other hand, if they are one and the same, then I do not want to do
business with them or anyone associated with their products, especially
since a quilting machine may be a consideration in a few years. Or does
the alleged perpetrator simply have a franchise of DAQ, and DAQ is
harmless in this debauchery?
Julia Altshuler
--Lia
RMcC
with a full deck. A totally inexplicable action that deserves
punishment/retribution. Let's hope Arlene is successful.
Rose
"Cyndi Meows" <Me...@stopcomcast.net> wrote in message
news:CaScnXdwY-F...@comcast.com...
bogus address
> By permanently bankrupt, I mean that he should not be able to reopen
> another business once he files bankruptcy to avoid paying compensation,
> and thus being a responsible merchant, to consumers harmed directly by
> his products. That's what I want to happen, but that's not what's going
> to happen. I have, myself, had dealings with local businesses that pull
> the same tricks to get out of paying court judgements and such. It's
> something about the US laws I wish were changed so that consumers would
> be protected from toilet sludge like Dan Puckett.
In English law (not sure about Scotland) a judge can rule that someone
is not a fit person to be in charge of a company. Usually this is imposed
for only a few years, and it takes seriously crooked behaviour to have it
happen (I think Robert Maxwell and Jeffrey Archer both fitted the bill),
but it covers what you're asking for.
US law is biased by its political obligation to protect the powerful.
Union Carbide's management killed three times as many people at Bhopal
as died in the September 11 bombings, and not only has nobody stood
trial for it, there has been no civil recourse either.
========> Email to "jc" at this site; email to "bogus" will bounce. <========
Jack Campin: 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU; 0131 6604760
http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/purrhome.html food intolerance data and recipes,
freeware logic fonts for the Macintosh, and Scots traditional music resources
Emilia Bedilia
<gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote:
>I understand how you feel, Cyndi. But there are really good reasons that
>the US bankruptcy laws are written the way that they are in that regard.
>About the only thing that someone cannot bankrupt on under nearly any
>circumstance is child support.
And student loans.
MerryStahel
>as died in the September 11 bombings, and not only has nobody stood
>trial for it, there has been no civil recourse either.
And the government of Bhopal says????
Merry
Some mistakes are too much fun to only make once
http://hometown.aol.com/merrystahel/index.html
Emilia Bedilia
>>I thought RCTQers should know about this incident.
>
>What is equally disturbing is that, if you go to his website, and click on the
>"fish hyphens" in his logo, you get to read subliminal Christian messages.
>
>It seems to me that many a hateful act has been committed by so-called
>"religious" people. I seem to remember some of this same type of people
>stealing a few planes and crashing them into some tall buildings a little over
>a year ago...
>
>What a tragedy.
>
>Kathy
I was thinking the same thing when I saw those fishes!
Weird!
Julia Altshuler
never be responsible for paying any debt ever, even those incured after the
initial bankruptcy decree. After all, a bankruptcy cancels debts, right?
Bankruptcy law is too complicated to go into in detail, and it's a controversial
set of laws that vary from state to state so I'll tread lightly on some
generalities.
A man decides to go into business. In order to do so, he "borrows" from his
suppliers. For example, the fabric company lets him have 100 bolts of fabric
now with the understanding that he'll pay the wholesale price for them in 30
days. Why does the supplier do that? Because it expects to make a profit on
the deal! If they demand payment up front, the guy may never get started. If
he never gets started, they may never sell their fabric, or they won't sell
their product at as good a price. If all goes well, the fabric sells to the
public at the retail price, and with the money earned on the fabric, the
businessman is able to pay his rent, his employees and his wholesaler.
Everybody wins.
Now let's say nothing works as planned. The fabric doesn't sell as well as he'd
hoped, and what little money the guy takes in goes to the rent and the
employees. He'd gone into business really hoping to make a success of it, but
he failed. Let's look at what happens with no bankruptcy protection.
The man still owes his creditors. Interest accrues. He's in debt over his
head. The creditors take everything he owns including his house. After all,
why should he own anything if he owes them? The money isn't really his. He's
out on the street. He gets a job, but every time he earns a dollar, the
creditors know it's theirs and take it. He can't possibly get ahead, go into
business again, support his children or pay taxes. He might as well be a slave
working for a master. He might as well shoot himself or shoot his creditors
since his life has no future in it. Perhaps the government puts him in jail
before that happens. He'll stay there until he pays his debts, but since he
can't make a living in debtors' prison, it's a life sentence. Sound
farfetched? It's not. Read some history.
Not only is the prospect dismal for the one man. It's dismal for anyone
considering going into business. The risk is too great. A society grows up of
owners (folks rich enough to be in business already; the business is owning
agricultural property, in other words, feudal lords) and workers (serfs,
slaves, share croppers, factory workers-the name changes, but the concept is
familiar). There's no way to break out.
Now look at what happens with bankruptcy protection. The man gets into debt,
but he can get out. Declaring bankruptcy is nothing to be taken lightly. It's
horribly shameful, but at least he has a second chance. Everything he owns of
value is considered by the court to be sold at auction to pay the creditors.
The creditors might get paid 10 cents to the dollar, but that's the chance they
took when loaned him the money in the first place (which they did, remember, for
their own benefit hoping to make a profit). There's an order to the creditors.
The government always gets its taxes first. The only things that the creditors
can't take are the man's personal belongings (the clothes off his back for which
there's no resale value anyway), his home, maybe a small savings in cash. This
way he can start over and become a contributing member of society again. At
least, that's the way it works in the fairy tale.
Here's where it gets controversial. First, in the example I gave, the man had
no intent to defraud. If he did, that would be illegal, but it's hard to
catch. The laws may be good, but fraud does happen in the real world as in the
case of a man who runs up his credit cards before declaring bankruptcy. Second,
the laws might be written to protect the debtor. Sure no one wants to throw a
man out onto the street, but that house that they can't touch might be worth
over a million dollars. As long as that's his primary residence and not a 2nd
vacation home, he can keep it in Florida. (Laws vary from state to state.)
Third, the laws might not take into account how he got into debt. In the
example I gave, it was in business. What if he's in debt to his ex-wife for
back child-support? What if he's in debt because of a legal judgment against
him as in the case of someone who loses a product liability suit? What if it's
not an individual man declaring bankruptcy but a terrorist organization with a
judgment against it for doing property damage? The laws aren't perfect. There
are loopholes. There are efforts to close the loopholes. Learn more. Work for
peace and justice.
--Lia
Ronnie Wexler
"BANKRUPTCY
The following article is excerpted from West's Encyclopedia of American
Law.
Federal versus State Bankruptcy Laws
In general, state laws govern financial obligations such as those
involving debts created by contracts---rental leases, telephone
service, and doctor bills, for example. But once a debtor or creditor
seeks bankruptcy relief, federal law applies, overriding state law.
This is because the U.S. Constitution grants Congress the power to
"establish . . . uniform Laws on the subject of Bankruptcies throughout
the United States" (U.S. Const. art. I, § 8). Federal bankruptcy power
maintains uniformity among the states, encouraging interstate commerce
and promoting the country's economic stability. States retain
jurisdiction over certain debtor-creditor issues that do not conflict
with, or are not addressed by, federal bankruptcy law."
So if this guy declared bankruptcy, he either filed for reorganization
(most likely) or disolution of his business (which requires everything
be sold and his creditors repaid, usually at X cents on the dollar) -
unlikely since he reopened it and seems to have some stock.
The above site says:
"Unlike liquidation, rehabilitation provides the debtor with an
opportunity to retain nonexempt assets. In return, the debtor must
agree to pay debts in strict accordance with a reorganization plan
approved by the bankruptcy court. During this repayment period,
creditors are unable to pursue debts beyond the provisions of the
reorganization plan. This gives the debtor the chance to restructure
affairs in the effort to meet financial obligations.
To be eligible for rehabilitative bankruptcy, the debtor must have
sufficient income to make a reorganization plan feasible. If the debtor
fails to comply with the reorganization plan, the bankruptcy court may
order liquidation. A debtor who successfully completes the
reorganization plan is entitled to a discharge of remaining debts. In
keeping with the general preference for bankruptcy rehabilitation
rather than liquidation, the goal of this policy is to reward the
conscientious debtor who works to help creditors by resolving his or
her debts."
So it's unlikely he's going to get off scott free from his bankruptcy.
Ronnie
In article <3DC73415...@attbi.com>, Julia Altshuler
Ruth in Happy Camp
Arlene, and she warned about against sending e-mails to DAQ or to
the owner. She is apparently concerned about her own safety, and
does not wish to see others possibly endangered.
--
Ruth in Happy Camp
"Susanna Farkas" <sus...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:B9EC45E1.39EA6%sus...@mindspring.com...
> I thought RCTQers should know about this incident. I wrote to Arlene
asking
> permission to repost her original QuiltArt post to RCTQ and she
subsequently
> posted the following paragraph.
> ----------------------------------
> <snip>I do whole-heartedly support the ongoing education of the public and
> retail venues of this incident. I know I don't ever want to see him
> vending at another show. <snip>
> ----------------------------------
> Date: Sun, 03 Nov 2002 20:34:58 -0600
> From: Arlene Blackburn
> Subject: Houston IQF Tragedy
>
> Good evening to everyone...It has been a rough one this evening for
> me...
>
> I just walked in the door from Houston and received a telephone call
> from the organizers of the Houston/International Quilt Festival show and
>
> spoke with a detective from the Houston Sheriff's Department. They
> informed me that tonight after the close of the show, they caught Dan
> Puckett (Design-A-Quilt) throwing bleach on my show quilt, "Midnight in
> the Garden of Good and Elvis." The quilt is ruined. Dan has been
> arrested and will face felony charges. They had Dan in custody, as they
>
> had apprehended him right at my quilt. I will pursue his prosecution to
>
> see that he is punished to the full extent of the law. See what happens
>
> when you do business with this man.
>
> Arlene
>
Julia Altshuler
people hoping that they'll listen and change their minds. I make it a point
only to argue with people I love dearly, or at least respect, so we can air
differences, understand each other, come to a compromise. If the facts in this
case are as I understand them, this guy is a lunatic. He's violent, irrational,
vindictive. It takes a crazy man to turn a judgment against him in a civil
lawsuit into a personal vendetta for which he felt it necessary to take
revenge. I can't imagine what an email to such a person would say.
Assuming that he's out on bail, I can imagine checking with the promoters of
every quilt show and asking if he'll be allowed on the premises before entering
a quilt or attending the show. If they say they have no policy about keeping
him out, especially as a vendor, tell them that you wouldn't consider entering a
quilt or attending a show at any venue with so little security or lack of
concern for the safety of the quilts or the viewers.
--Lia
MB
Jalynne
bankruptcy. But it worked out great for us to do credit management anyway
after dh lost his job. We're way better off credit wise and making good
payments. And, in a few years, i'll be able to open a business of my own,
wooohooo!
Jalynne
"Emilia Bedilia" <emilia at easy dot com> wrote in message
news:8o8esuofi7tks9e2j...@4ax.com...
bogus address
>> Union Carbide's management killed three times as many people at Bhopal
>> as died in the September 11 bombings, and not only has nobody stood
>> trial for it, there has been no civil recourse either.
> And the government of Bhopal says????
India's been trying to extradite the guys responsible for years; the
local managers fled back to the US after the killings and the US
government has been sheltering them ever since. (Top management of
the company probably carries more responsibility, but no court has
been given the chance to allocate blame).
Probably the Design-a-Quilt guy hasn't got the readies to buy that
level of immunity, but if it had been somebody outside the US who'd
been burned or shocked by one of his products they'd never have been
compensated.
Monica L. Tittle
>What a beautiful quilt. I'd suspect the "alleged destroyer" is not playing
>with a full deck. A totally inexplicable action that deserves
>punishment/retribution. Let's hope Arlene is successful.
I'm getting nothing on that link but an error message. Is there a pic
of it anywhere else?
Monica L. Tittle (and sometimes her husband Robert!)
histo...@charter.net
Southern girls don't drink, they sip. . .a lot.
NightMist
>Hmmm...I"m disappointed...didn't see any subliminal message...!
>
I think it only works on the "home" page.
Tooling around the site a little, the "hidden message" page is the
only place I found dude's name or the fact that he is president of the
company.
NightMist
--
everybody is somebodys chew toy
NightMist
>>Union Carbide's management killed three times as many people at Bhopal
>>as died in the September 11 bombings, and not only has nobody stood
>>trial for it, there has been no civil recourse either.
>
>And the government of Bhopal says????
>
Actually, if memory serves, the government of India required Union
Carbide to pay a settlement of nearly $500 million. I do not know if
they paid or paid in full but it was ordered.
Emilia Bedilia
>Hmmm...I"m disappointed...didn't see any subliminal message...!
The fish acting as hyphens in the company name is a Christian symbol.
It implies the company and/or the owner of the company is a Christian.
As far as I know, the alleged quilt destruction isn't a very christian
thing to do... But what do I know about religion.
Emilia Bedilia
>Probably the Design-a-Quilt guy hasn't got the readies to buy that
>level of immunity, but if it had been somebody outside the US who'd
>been burned or shocked by one of his products they'd never have been
>compensated.
What is interesting is to see his limited warranty. It is so limited
as to be worthless!!
Grandma
"Emilia Bedilia" <emilia at easy dot com> wrote in message
HMMM - bet somebody could make a darned good argument to their state's
attorney general, assuming they bought on the net, that their states
regulations apply to the sale - and in many states those are much tougher
regarding exactly how limited "limited" really is.
Laren
>>Union Carbide's management killed three times as many people at Bhopal
>>as died in the September 11 bombings, and not only has nobody stood
>>trial for it, there has been no civil recourse either.
>
>
> And the government of Bhopal says????
>
> Merry
The Government of India can say what it wants but when the people
responsible are in the USA there isn't much they can do.
Cheers,
Laren
MerryStahel
The government can kick them out of India quite easily, - they ARE in
control...it would lose UC a lot of money, would it not? Or force them to pay
for damages.
Ruth in Happy Camp
Yes, there's a photo of the quilt there. (www.deltafiberart.com)
--
Ruth in Happy Camp
news:3dc7cc39...@news.charter.net...
CANDCMOM2
him or Design a Quilt (or whatever it was)
Peg in NE PA
Kathy Applebaum
> what is the equipment that he sells/sold? Never heard of
> him or Design a Quilt (or whatever it was)
Design-a-Quilt is a short arm machine (although I think they may have
come out with a longarm, too, a couple of years ago.)
--
Kathy Applebaum (Woodland, CA)
longarm machine quilting
mailto:Kat...@NOSPAM-KayneyQuilting.com
remove the obvious to reply
Leslie in Missouri
Leslie and Furbabies in MO.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Acquiring a dog may be ,-.~~~.-,
the only opportunity a V)' '(V
human ever has to (_o_)
choose a relative. Golden Retriever
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A dog's life is too short. It's their only fault really."
Alice Turnball
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If you love animals~~~~~don't litter!
Spay/Neuter
Kim Fisher
it and wants me to increase the memory. I'd love to see just the quilt,
if somebody could post the address just of the image.
AlsoKim
--
"A hobby is the happy medium between
a passion and a monomania."
--Honoré de Balzac
Diana Curtis
http://www.deltafiberart.com/hpw12.gif
Diana
--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44
"Kim Fisher" wrote
Diana Curtis
--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44
"Diana Curtis" wrote ...
Lizzy Taylor
Not white, but black for me this time! Sort of black button, with black
writing , lit up in black........
--
Lizzy Taylor
http://www.thetaylorfamily.org.uk/
Grandma
news:041120021939375310%rwe...@tias.com:
Well, yes, EXCEPT. In practice an individual or business that has an
office only in one state can declare bankruptcy in state rather than
federal court. Which is why many people intending to eventually - and
perhaps fraudulently - declare bankruptcy move to Florida. In Florida you
can keep your house, no matter how much it is worth.
And even in a Federal bankruptcy, not everything is necessarily sold. You
get to keep the tools of your trade, for example, if you are a carpenter.
Anything that has little resale value or would cost more to sell than it
would bring in isn't bothered with - along with some things that do. A
bankrupt dot-com a couple of years back tried to sell their customer list,
which was worth millions. Privacy law over-road bankruptcy law in that
case and the sale was stopped. Remember, valuation is done at tag-sale
value, not replacement value like it would be for the insurance company.
Whether or not the creditors actually get anything is complicated and
depends on a debt:asset ratio. If the debts are really high and the assets
really low (usually the case) then the creditors often don't get a single
dime, even in a dissolution. Even if they do, there is a heirarchy of
order re who gets paid first and what proportion of the money owed to them
they can collect. As an example, many of the folks laid off by WorldCom
were owed, other than their salary, a severance payment stipulated in the
company personnel manuals/contracts as something on the order of one
months' pay per year of employment. However, by bankruptcy law those
employees are entitled to a maximum of just shy of $5000, no matter what
the contract says, far less than many of them would have gotten per the
contract. And IF they get a payment at all - doubtful - they are last in
line behind nearly all of the other creditors.
And then there are the "maybes" that a smart bankruptcy lawyer will be very
familiar with. The whole principle is a fresh start with nothing hanging
over your head (with the one exception of past due child support) so a
debtor can bankrupt, for example, on something like future liability for
repairs to a product or future liability for damage claims. So if someone
else had a problem with the alleged perpetrators product but has not yet
gotten a court judgement, they are likely out of luck as far as any
recovery, as is anyone that now needs repairs.
And then there is the whole issue of which KIND of bankruptcy that this
blurb from West's doesn't even begin to address - is this a personal
bankruptcy or a business bankruptcy? Which chapter of the US Code is it
filed under? Chapter 7 is an automatic dissolution but others start with
the idea that the person or company can be reorganized. A 7 can be
accepted or rejected but not changed to a reorganization but a bankruptcy
that starts as a reorganization can be changed to a dissolution if the
court feels that adequate resources aren't available. Did the person or
company file for bankruptcy - or did their creditors file for the
bankruptcy? If the debtor filed - usually the case - then the debtor gets
to pick whether he wants to go straight for the dissolution or attempt a
reorganization. All of that makes a huge difference in how things are
handled in the end and who gets what - if anything.
It is in fact almost guaranteed that he got off pretty close to scott-free.
We don't know what his legal business entity was prior to the bankruptcy,
but chances are he was incorporated in some way - his website at the
present clearly states on the warranty page that he is currently
incorporated - which automatically protects every single item that he
personally owns - houses, cars, boats, fine art, antiques, even
stocks/bonds - from the *business* bankruptcy. The corporation is a
separate legal entity from the individuals that might own the corporation -
separate debts, separate assets, separate tax ID, separate taxes and
separate bankruptcy.
So we can all say - "Good, he can't do it again for 7 years" EXCEPT that a
business bankruptcy does not apply to his personal finances or credit or
right to open his own business. And except for the fact that even if his
business did a reorganization in the year 2000, they could by law go back
at almost any time before the 7 years were up when things still weren't
working and do a dissolution. And if he did a dissolution - which he, not
being WorldCom , most assuredly did do, THAT business doesn't exist any
more and THIS business is a whole new legal entity with no responsiblity
whatever towards any obligations of the pre-bankruptcy businss, even if
owned by the exact same people. So, he can go down to the bankruptcy court
tomorrow or next year and dissolve this one too.
Not "fair"? You betcha. But to write the bankruptcy laws in such a way
that the few bad apples that pull this kind of thing can no longer do so
would also mean that an awful lot of businesses and individuals that truly
do deserve a fresh start wouldn't get one.
Grandma
news:m9Kx9.1776$fn6.2...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net:
>
> Yup, student loans especially....the main reason we couldn't file for
> bankruptcy.
Student loans are under some circumstances bankruptable. Much harder to do
these days than it used to be but still sometimes can be done. Probably
your debt:asset ratio wasn't high enough and the student loans were the
bulk of the debt.
..Mickie Swall..
http://www.deltafiberart.com/hpw12.gif
if that won't work for you, go to
http://www.deltafiberart.com/
it is the first quilt in the Gallery link titled
"Midnight in the Garden of Good and Elvis"
Mickieidnight in the Garden of Good and Elvis
"Leslie in Missouri" <qwil...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:28479-3D...@storefull-2153.public.lawson.webtv.net...
Sandy Foster
Kim Fisher <also...@verizon.net> wrote:
>You're not the only one. It must be a HUGE site. My computer chokes on
>it and wants me to increase the memory. I'd love to see just the quilt,
>if somebody could post the address just of the image.
>
>AlsoKim
>
>Leslie in Missouri wrote:
>>
>> Well, all I get is a blank white page! Dang it!
>>
>> Leslie and Furbabies in MO.
>>
Okay, try this one: <http://www.deltafiberart.com/ie3.htm>
Sandy (OQE) in Henderson, near Las Vegas
mailto:s_fo...@earthlink.net
http://home.earthlink.net/~s_foster
Grandma
news:3DC704EE...@attbi.com:
> I'm looking for some moral in this for the rest of us and drawing a
> blank. Know that there are evil vengeful violent irrational people
> out there and hope we don't meet too many in our lives? That's the
> best I can come up with.
>
> --Lia
I can't think of anything any better than that. I guess the question that
things like this or the theft of someone's prize winning quilt not long ago
or incidents like 9/11, the Moscow Theatre takeover, the sniper case, leave
us all with is "Why us? Why me? Why innocents?" - and I'm not sure there
is an answer to that. The Hindus believe that bad things that happen are
things we earned in a previous life. The Puritans believed that things
like this were punishment for our sins - or those of our parents. Our more
"user friendly" Christians of today might say that God wanted the
individual to learn something or gain some spiritual strength. Aethiests
might just comment s*** happens. I guess there are just some born-evil
people out there that are so self-centered that nothing matters to them but
whatever it is they want, whatever happens to be on their agenda - whether
financial or religious - without any regard at all for the rights of anyone
else in the world. To them their rights supersede any and all others. The
Good Book says evil is always with us. Guess there is nothing new under
the sun and the next time any of us consider whether or not to show a quilt
publicly then we need to consider whether it means too much to us to lose
it.
Emilia Bedilia
You mean I have to rack up MORE debt in order to be able to have a
bankruptcy wipe out the student loans????
Hey! This is going to be fun!! Anyone what to go shopping!?!?
: )
Grandma
"Emilia Bedilia" <emilia at easy dot com> wrote in message
Not exactly - that likely wouldn't work. But if you had something
devastating happen - like impossibly high medical bills maybe - that might
do it. Essentially, they can be bankrupted if your situation is so bad that
there is absolutely no hope of recovery.
Leslie in Missouri
Thanks, Diana! LOL Now I get a big BLACK page...... instead of white!
<g>
Leslie <giving up> and Furbabies in MO.
Jalynne
loan papers....they say that we cannot declare them in any bankruptcy
claims. There does not appear to be any exception on those papers, and I've
read them carefully. Gonna go to the law library and check it out tomorrow,
just to be sure, but I don't hold out much hope. Fortunately our finances
have turned around so we can afford the payments, but it would be nice to
know, just in case. That and I love doing legal research. Someday I want
to do it for a living!
Jalynne
"Grandma" <gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote in message
news:Xns92BE964C8E6Egr...@216.168.3.44...
MerryStahel
Can you defer the loans? Soemtimes, in certain circumstances, loans can be
deferred up to 10 years.
Jalynne
service...but I like to have the info, just in case. You never know what
can happen financially, and it's nice to know where you stand BEFORE
something bad happens.
Jalynne
"MerryStahel" <merry...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20021106193024...@mb-fe.aol.com...
Grandma
barring some kind of horrific tragedy it is highly unlikely you would
qualify for an exception. Exceptions are for horrific events - like
permanent disability and hundreds of thousands in medical bills.
There are some things you can do though. You can now combine them through
the Feds - at the lowest interest rate in about all of history - and spread
the payments out over 20 or 30 years. If he happens to be trained in any of
the various health professions the Public Health Service may pay them off
entirely in exchange for several years of employment. (Work conditions are
quite good and many of the positions are in areas where there is a premium
on the pay.) If he is qualified to teach and you are willing to move many
states will pay off the student loans under about the same conditions as
PHS.
If push comes to shove, remember that he does not have to repay the loans as
long as he is in school "full-time" - which at the graduate level is defined
as two graduate classes per semester. You are allowed only one undergrad
degree but you can have a dozen Masters and PhD's if you want. The fact
that your employer happens to pay for your grad classes or that you pay cash
and don't take any further loans does not invalidate the student deferral.
"Jalynne" <craft...@quiltscrap.net> wrote in message
news:6Giy9.874$NI6....@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Susanna Farkas
<gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote:
You are allowed only one undergrad
> degree but you can have a dozen Masters and PhD's if you want.
I'm not sure that is universally true. I had loans from my first
undergraduate degree that stayed in deferment through a second undergraduate
degree, a registered dietitian internship, and graduate school.
The loans stayed deferred in grad school, even through several semesters of
thesis writing when I wasn't taking classes. Schools often have "continuous
registration credits" to maintain deferment. There is no way I could have
done my research, wrote a thesis, and worked enough to make payments!
I do need to consolidate because I am starting to get that swamped feeling.
Susanna
Susannadotfarkasatmindspringdotcom
Jalynne
of some of the deferrment clauses until he can get back into school full
time. The downside of deferrment is that interest still accrues, so even if
it is really low, you still end up paying way more than you borrowed.
Fortunately, we can afford to make the payments until he finishes school and
starts teaching. He wants to teach in California, and the school district
where he wants to teach pays well, and does indeed help with repayment of
student loans. We want to pay them off, because we feel it's a matter of
integrity...if we can we should. And it would be nice if we didn't have a
whole bunch of interest on top of the principal. The only reason i feel a
strong need to know what my options are is that this debt was incurred
before we were married, and if something happens while dh is away on Navy
business, i wanna have all my ducks in a row. We're in that mode now, since
he leaves for a few months in January. The legal aid office is being so
very helpful! Well, somewhat. I have the knowledge and skill to do all the
work myself, and I do double check their work (habit of mine i picked up
while studying to be a paralegal). Anyway, back to my fabric cutting......
Jalynne
"Grandma" <gra...@nospam.interdial.net> wrote in message
news:usjmd0j...@corp.supernews.com...
Grandma
>The only reason i feel a
> strong need to know what my options are is that this debt was incurred
> before we were married, and if something happens while dh is away on Navy
> business, i wanna have all my ducks in a row.
If hubby got the student loans before you were married then YOU are not
responsible for them - a very handy fact to remember should circumstance
ever force him into default when it comes tax time. (You still get to keep
your half of the tax return.)
Rather than worry about bankruptcy, given his current profession I would
investigate the current status of permanent disability on repayment. Don't
just read the contracts either - go wade through the US Code that covers
student loans (sorry, don't recall the particular number) with a fine tooth
comb.
Emilia Bedilia
Oh, well...
I guess I'm stuck... and it's probably a good thing but it hurts every
month when it's time to write that check!
Mel Rimmer
<li...@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> writes
>
>Not white, but black for me this time! Sort of black button, with black
>writing , lit up in black........
... on a black background? Hey, Lizzy - you're in Hotblack Desiato's
stuntship and it's about to crash into the heart of a sun. Get out of
there!
--
Mel Rimmer
Grandma
"Emilia Bedilia" <emilia at easy dot com> wrote in message
Go to grad school and take a little breather from writing the check :)
You don't want to get me started on the student loan system in this country!
Lizzy Taylor
> In article <3dc96472$0$28317$fa0f...@lovejoy.zen.co.uk>, Lizzy Taylor
> writes
>
> >Not white, but black for me this time! Sort of black button, with black
> >writing , lit up in black........
>
>
> ... on a black background? Hey, Lizzy - you're in Hotblack Desiato's
> stuntship and it's about to crash into the heart of a sun. Get out of
> there!
... saying "please don't press this button again". Yes, but I'll only be
dead for tax reasons ;-) BTW I have friends that bought their flat from
the estate agents called "Hotblack & Desiato", I think they still have
the "for sale" sign.
Lizzy
Diana Curtis
like a kind of drink that will put you on your a** with one sip.
Diana
--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44
frood
grin here) Hotblack Desiato (and that put-down) are from the 5-book trilogy
Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, as is the term "frood".
--
Wendy
http://griffinsflight.com/Quilting/quilt1.htm
"Diana Curtis" <dben...@pressenter.com> wrote in message
news:aqe3l0$gnd$1...@jair.pressenter.com...
Pati Cook
Pati, in Phx
Pati Cook
Pati, in Phx
Marcella Tracy Peek
for the quilts at shows.
There is also a small picture of the quilt at the top of the page for
those (like me) who can't get in to that other site.
http://quiltrecipes.com/petitionletter.htm
marcella
Lizzy Taylor
Hotblack Desiato is a character in Restaurant at the End of the Universe
(?) by Douglas Adams, at least I think it is that volume. The late
Douglas Adams came up with the name having seen the estate agents
(realtors) names on signs in the area of London in which he then
lived/worked.
frood
realtors. I could almost trust them! <G>
--
Wendy
http://griffinsflight.com/Quilting/quilt1.htm
"Lizzy Taylor" <li...@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> wrote in message
news:3dcaadf7$0$28319$fa0f...@lovejoy.zen.co.uk...
Lizzy Taylor
> Aw, I was hoping it was the other way around - Hitchhiker fans turned
> realtors. I could almost trust them!
>
> "Lizzy Taylor" wrote in message
> >
> >Hotblack Desiato is a character in Restaurant at the End of the Universe
> >(?) by Douglas Adams, at least I think it is that volume. The late
> >Douglas Adams came up with the name having seen the estate agents
> >(realtors) names on signs in the area of London in which he then
> >lived/worked.
In the end they had to change the name of the company because HH fans
kept on nicking the signs .
Diana Curtis
name. Of course, it wasnt my favorite book. Well told but it just didnt
engage me. Not enough wizards and dragons in it I guess.
But. .thanks for the edumacation!
as for my butt.. it hasnt fallen off but in the 2 years it has done some
drastic slippage. I just assumed it was age and not my coolness level...LOL
Diana
--
http://photos.yahoo.com/lunamom44
"frood" <bu...@griffinsflight.com> wrote in message
news:6gwy9.3888$uQ3....@news.bellsouth.net...
> Diana, you're so un-hip, it's a wonder your bum don't fall off! (very big
> grin here) Hotblack Desiato (and that put-down) are from the 5-book
trilogy
> Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, as is the term "frood".
ally
<li...@thetaylorfamily.org.uk> writes
It was still called that 2 christmases ago. I used to work for a wine
company and I had to send a case to their offices. I nearly burst
trying not to laugh as I took the details.
:-)
--
ally
Don/Gen
Gen
"Susanna Farkas" <sus...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:B9EF62BE.3A743%sus...@mindspring.com...
Dreamweaver
to the Winnepeg Folk Festival! Don't remember much of it except it was a
blast!
Whoohoo!
Dreamweaver
frood <bu...@griffinsflight.com> wrote in message
news:6gwy9.3888$uQ3....@news.bellsouth.net...
Jalynne
i just LOVE the first three...haven't read the last two though. Douglas
Adams is a hoot!
Jalynne
"Dreamweaver" <j...@hutchtel.net> wrote in message
news:aqf8un$9d684$1...@ID-165493.news.dfncis.de...
Kathy Applebaum
> Diana, you're so un-hip, it's a wonder your bum don't fall off! (very big
> grin here) Hotblack Desiato (and that put-down) are from the 5-book trilogy
> Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, as is the term "frood".
and to tie it to the 1940's House conversation, DH and I laughed out
loud when we found out that Ford Prefect was a *car*!
--
Kathy Applebaum (Woodland, CA)
longarm machine quilting
mailto:Kat...@NOSPAM-KayneyQuilting.com
remove the obvious to reply
Eyren
<j...@hutchtel.net> writes:
>I listened to the audio version of that in the back of a van on the way up
>to the Winnepeg Folk Festival! Don't remember much of it except it was a
>blast!
HitchHiker's Guide is just got to be one of my favourite things. It was first
broadcast on the BBC in the late 70's when I was at University. It was a
Must-Have.
Some bits have become part of the language.
" '...It's unpleasntly like being drunk.'
'What's so unpleasant about being drunk?'
'Ask a glass of water.' "
Nel (who sometimes knows where her towel is!)
(Sartor Resartus)
Mel Rimmer
Kathy Applebaum <Kat...@NOSPAM-KayneyQuilting.com> writes
>
>and to tie it to the 1940's House conversation, DH and I laughed out
>loud when we found out that Ford Prefect was a *car*!
Now I'm LOL-ing to realise that you wouldn't have realised that!
--
Mel Rimmer
Ruth in Happy Camp
it--a car to steal my heart, it was. One of my favorite cars has always
been a 1940 coupe--black with chrome trim and spotlights.
--
Ruth in Happy Camp
"Kathy Applebaum" <Kat...@NOSPAM-KayneyQuilting.com> wrote in message
news:1flbkps.smbn1a1ungayoN%Kat...@NOSPAM-KayneyQuilting.com...