Boo :(
Emma
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3584273.stm
(Summary: Artist Tracey Emin refuses to authenticate a quilt made with
schoolchildren if the school decide to sell it)
Regards
Emma
Lizzy Taylor
Surely if the children made it too, it is not hers to demand back?
I have to admit I don't have much, if any, time for Tracey Emin.
Lizzy
--
Lizzy Taylor
Heywood, Lancashire, UK 53:36:00N 2:06:00E
http://www.thetaylorfamily.org.uk
mailto:li...@thetaylorfamily.org.uk
Suequiltmail
I think they should take the quilt apart, give each child their square back and
send the rest of it to the "artist". Hey, I'll even go over the pond and help
them make a new quilt! What a Bi---.
Nothing like leaving a bad taste in the mouth of creativity and charity.
SueB
Kate Dicey
Lizzy Taylor wrote:
>
> Emma wrote:
> > I thought this was quite sad:
> >
> > http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/3584273.stm
> >
> > (Summary: Artist Tracey Emin refuses to authenticate a quilt made with
> > schoolchildren if the school decide to sell it)
>
> Surely if the children made it too, it is not hers to demand back?
>
> I have to admit I don't have much, if any, time for Tracey Emin.
>
> Lizzy
Same here. Never struck me as having any artistic talent, really.
--
Kate XXXXXX
Lady Catherine, Wardrobe Mistress of the Chocolate Buttons
http://www.diceyhome.free-online.co.uk
Click on Kate's Pages and explore!
Johanna Koski
> (Summary: Artist Tracey Emin refuses to authenticate a quilt made with
> schoolchildren if the school decide to sell it)
Finnish law would say this in this case:
Artist has legal rights on the quilt like this: has rights to decide
where
it's been showed. Doesn't have any rights on the *material* if the
material
is from school. She cannot demand the whole quilt to herself as she's
not
the only one making it. If the quilt is sold, neither the artist nor the
kids can say anymore where it's been displayed.
Johanna
--
Johanna Koski
Finland, Europe
Mauvice Murphy
she afraid somoeone else will make money on the quilt(namely the school) or
is the gallery wanting their commisiion on her work? Who knows?....Anyway
if that were the case there are lots of artists who could demand their work
back if the person they sold it to sold it....what nonsense!
I don't know here or her work....but ...She is an embarassment to the art
worldwith that lousy attitude.
--
Mauvice in Central WI USA
remove no spam to reply
"Emma" <edwa...@interactivstudios.com> wrote in message
news:f80l60he6tjkvlpc9...@4ax.com...
Julia Altshuler
I read the article carefully and couldn't find the information that's
most pertinent: What was the original agreement when Emin first agreed
to coordinate the project? If there wasn't a written contract, what did
the artist and the school agree to? Surely an experienced artist with a
reputation knows enough about selling artwork and teaching art to know
to have a simple contract drawn up before embarking on such an
adventure. And surely the school knew how much display would cost and
what they planned to do with the finished piece. Someone isn't telling
us something. It's quite possible that Emin is in the right here
because the school is reneging on their deal. Or Emin could be wrong
which is the way the article makes it appear. Same goes for the school.
They might be within their rights-- or not.
--Lia
Mary in Oregon
--
Mary
http://community.webshots.com/user/mardor1948
"Suequiltmail" <suequi...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040331042511...@mb-m10.aol.com...
Louise
to me like the children were involved with the creation (but maybe they
"just" gave her the ideas and she incorporated them into the quilt), so I
wonder why she feels she has so much authority over it. I guess we really do
need to know more about what the guidelines of the project were and who was
granted ownership. It just seems sad that something that appears to have
started out with good intentions has become a feud of sorts -- and no one
will really win!
--
Louise in Iowa
nieland4 at mchsi dot com
http://community.webshots.com/user/louiseiniowa
"Mary in Oregon" <ma...@clipper.net> wrote in message
news:c4emh9$2i676o$1...@ID-135351.news.uni-berlin.de...
Charlie
school - she doesn't want the school to cash in on her name. It should be
displayed in the school. I can't believe it would cost £4000 (About
$10,000) to get a case for it.
Charlie.
"Emma" <edwa...@interactivstudios.com> wrote in message
news:f80l60he6tjkvlpc9...@4ax.com...
Julia Altshuler
> I can kind of see her point. It was meant to be a project within the
> school - she doesn't want the school to cash in on her name. It should be
> displayed in the school. I can't believe it would cost £4000 (About
> $10,000) to get a case for it.
The more I think about this, the more I'm agreeing with you.
My brother volunteers at his daughter's school as do some of the other
parents. He teaches math. Other parents volunteer in other ways.
Sometimes a parent will make a video of a lesson or of reading a story
or of talking about a subject. Let's imagine a situation where a famous
actress wanted to volunteer and be treated like any other parent.
That's good, right? We always hear about outrageous behavior on the
part of Hollywood parents, but some of them might like to be treated
normally on their time off. Now what if the school decided that the
actress's video was worth more to them for sale than as a teaching aid?
Could you blame the actress for being pissed?
This sounds like the same thing. If I, as a not-famous quiltmaker,
coordinated a quilt project at a school, it would make sense to display
it, not sell it. If the school decided it was worth more to sell this
famous artist's quilt, I can't blame her for saying to go ahead and sell
it, but she doesn't like what they're doing and she's not going to
authenticate it. Yes, that does lessen its value, and that's her point.
--Lia
Michelle
be done with it. They'd be done a good thing and helped someone out. Let
this woman then have to wonder who has that particular quilt.
Shelly
"Julia Altshuler" <jalts...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:_nzac.147890$Cb.1526215@attbi_s51...
I.E.Z.
"Michelle" <nomor...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:10807814...@news.commspeed.net...
> I'd say to the kids, why don't we just donate the quilt to the homeless
and
> be done with it. They'd be done a good thing and helped someone out. Let
> this woman then have to wonder who has that particular quilt.
I think they should give it back and tell her exactly where to put it!!!
But only if she provided the materials and *all* the ideas and did at least
some of the work. If she just stood acting important, then they should cut
it apart and give each kid their own block back. No more quilt, no more
problem.
Iris
Michelle
would definitely make the kids feel as though they've really done something
worth while and really make her mad, especially since she is acting as she
is. If the school could use the quilt to make a ton of money for the school,
why not? Unless of course, the quilt was to be hung or shown in the foyers
of the school for the kids to enjoy.
There is just a lot that just isn't known here about the situation. I'm
curious to know the whole tale. lol
Shelly
"I.E.Z." <ieza...@ptd.net> wrote in message
news:OiGdndUdD-X...@ptd.net...
Julia Altshuler
If she made it, then it's hers to sell or not as she pleases.
If the school students made it, then it's theirs, not hers, and there
should be no question of her authenticating it. How can she
authenticate that something is hers when it's not?
What's left? Hm. The school hired her to make an original work of art
with the understanding that they'd sell it. She agreed and is now
reneging on the deal. Did anyone get that idea from the article? That
doesn't sound likely to me. Or how about this? The school hired her to
do a project with children using their ideas, their work, their
patchwork contributions, then decided to auction the finished piece as
an original work of art authenticated by the artist? Big bad
egotistical artist. Good, harmless, poor school as victim. I don't buy it.
--Lia
hfw
instruments or books, and with leaking ceilings and no water in the school
because of lead in the pipes, and on and on...if having my name on something
would mean more money for the school, I'd be thrilled. And if I were a
celebrity, I can't imagine better publicity. I'm sure I wouldn't feel the
same way if it were a business or commercial venture that was trying to
capitalize on my name, but something that would help a SCHOOL or a charity?!
It's true that she may have had some contract she feels is being breached,
but it seems to me that she's likely to lose more through the negative
publicity and feelings than the contract could possibly be worth. It just
seems awfully shortsighted and mean-spirited.
--Heidi
http://community.webshots.com/user/rabbit2b
"Julia Altshuler" <jalts...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:mtIac.151421$Cb.1550988@attbi_s51...
NightMist
I have always felt that Tracy Emin was more famous for being famous
than for being any sort of decent artist. Kind of like she wanted to
be Yoko Ono when she grew up.
I'm not at all surprised that she would do a thing like this if it
stirs people up and gets her name in the paper.
I should think however, that the quilt could be authenticated by
commitee as it were. As it was created as part of an arts program,
there are records and such, and people who were there. That type of
authentication is usually only undertaken when the artist involved is
dead, but it ought to be sufficient to the task here.
Some artists and galleries do have a clause in their sale contracts
that state they have first right of purchase if their art is to be
resold. Since TE is primarily an installation artist it would seem
rather moot for her to have such a clause. Besides, the quilt was
made as part of a governmenrt program, I imagine at least the program
administrators must have some say somewhere.
I must admit I would really enjoy it if she got some bad publicity out
of this. I think she is a complete and utter prat.
NightMist
--
"It's such a gamble when you get a face"
- Richard Hell
Kate Dicey
What probably happened is that she was brought in to do a project WITH
the kids, helped them design and make it, using materials supplied by
the school, herself, and donations from the parents, with nothing really
said as to the ownership of the completed work, but the general
understanding being that it belonged to the school, and was for use as a
display piece. I've been involved in making things like this myself,
and the usual understanding is that the completed item belongs to the
school. Some restrictions on its sale or use may have been stipulated
at the time of making, but if they were not put in writing, she has no
legal title to the work. She will have been paid for her part in the
program unless she offered her services free as a volunteer.
The trouble seems to have arisen because the school cannot afford the
type of case for display advised (museum quality, intended to display
fragile textiles or works of art), and wants to sell it off to some body
that can, and use the money for other badly needed projects. The
educational value of the item is complete. If the quilt hangs in the
school unprotected, it will deteriorate quite rapidly. Quilts are dust
and moth gatherers if not protected, and schools are not the cleanest of
environments. Selling it to a person or body that can afford to look
after it properly, preserving the finished article and the principle on
which it was made, and providing funds for other continuing educational
needs within the school, seems like a sensible way forward to me.
It seems to me that TE has got wind of this, and looks like making no
profit from the deal, so is trying to claim the whole thing back. What
she seems to have forgotten is that she doesn't need to 'authenticate'
the work: the school will have a record (photographic and other) of her
working on the quilt, and this will be enough to prove its provenance in
the art world, should that ever be an issue. As it will only ever be a
school project she helped with, rather than an art work of hers, the
value will be less than it would be had it been wholly her work. What I
do not understand is how she can ask for it to be 'returned' to her, as
it never seems to have been in her possession or regarded as belonging
to her up to this point.
If I were in her position, I'd be saying: Sell it and let's make sure
ALL the people who worked on it are named! I'll be at the sale to help
boost the bidding prices! Let's display it and the story behind it
where even more folk can see it, and if you build a new classroom or
whatever with the cash, I'd love to be invited to the opening ceremony.
--
Kate XXXXXX (Firmly of the opinion that if Tracy Emin is an artist,
then I'm David Hockney!)
Kate Dicey
Yoo & Mee bofe! Sisters again... ;)
--
Kate XXXXXX
I.E.Z.
"Kate Dicey" <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:406BF1A5...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk...
>
> >
> > I must admit I would really enjoy it if she got some bad publicity out
> > of this. I think she is a complete and utter prat.
> >
> > NightMist
> > --
> > "It's such a gamble when you get a face"
> > - Richard Hell
>
>
> Yoo & Mee bofe! Sisters again... ;)
> --
> Kate XXXXXX
I had never heard of Tracy Emin until this thread. I plugged her name into
Google and was appalled at her "art".
I hope she didn't have much to do with the quilt, as it would probably have
been plug-ugly if she had her way.
Iris
Roberta
I agree and it doesn't look like it is the first time that she has done
something "similar"
23.4.01
TRACEY EMIN DISOWNS PAINTING
Tim Webster wanted to buy a Billy Childish painting in 1982 but couldn't
afford the then-going rate of £150, so he settled on a Tracey Emin one
instead for £5, because "that was the nearest thing - she was copying him
down to the brush stroke."
A few years ago "she tried to buy it back off me... I bumped into her down
the [Rochester] flea market. That was the first thing she said to me - have
you still got that painting?"
Webster kept the painting until this month, when it raised £3,290 in auction
at Christies, more than Webster expected and badly needed after the decline
of his business, Aardvark Studios.
Unfortunately, he has not, at the time of writing, received a penny, as Emin
is disputing the authenticity of the work.
Billy Childish, her then-boyfriend, comments: "I clearly remember Tracey
selling the painting to Tim Webster... and her being very happy with the
deal."
Emin has previously expressed displeasure at the prospect of her early work
being resold.
I found that on some artsy website....stuckism.com
She doesn't sound like a very nice person in general really
Roberta (in MD)
LC aka Fiddy
*yawn*...
The Blessed Fiddy, Patroness Saint of the Disorganized
LC in Sunny So Cal
Personality Development Specialist (Full-Time Mom!)
ESTELLE GALLAGHER
Sittingbourne in the near future, so maybe-----) Estellenews:406BF18B...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk...
Kate Dicey
Roberta wrote:
> She doesn't sound like a very nice person in general really
>
> Roberta (in MD)
She's local to me (I live in Kent, not far from Rochester). She's not
usually mentioned as a local celeb! I have to admit that the whole
school quilt episode struck my as fairly typical...
As a county, Kent is more proud of having produced the celebrity chef
with the spiky hair and Kit Marlowe.
Kate Dicey
ESTELLE GALLAGHER wrote:
>
> Hear Hear Kate, Well said!! Estelle ( incidently, could be up in
> Sittingbourne in the near future, so maybe-----) Estelle
email me and I'll send my phone number. We should meet - come for
lunch!
--
Kate XXXXXX (Non driver!)
Roberta
>
>
> Roberta wrote:
>
>
> > She doesn't sound like a very nice person in general really
> >
> > Roberta (in MD)
>
> She's local to me (I live in Kent, not far from Rochester). She's not
> usually mentioned as a local celeb! I have to admit that the whole
> school quilt episode struck my as fairly typical...
>
> As a county, Kent is more proud of having produced the celebrity chef
> with the spiky hair and Kit Marlowe.
>
Is that Jamie Oliver? OR is there another one?
Does that mean when he does his cooking show from "home" that he is in your
neighborhood or has is moved since then?
Roberta
Kate Dicey
Roberta wrote:
> Is that Jamie Oliver? OR is there another one?
>
> Does that mean when he does his cooking show from "home" that he is in your
> neighborhood or has is moved since then?
No - Jamie is, I think, an Essex lad - frum Norf of the river... The
one I was thinking of is Gary Rhodes.
Roberta
As far as I can tell - Mr. Rhodes has not been "imported" yet :) Jamie is a
cutie although much of what he cooks I don't think I would be able to feed
my family. They are sorta picky
Roberta
Kate Dicey
His recipes work and he certainly can cook, but his manner is a bit too
laddish for me. Now the TV cooks I really loved were the Two Fat
Ladies! Jennifer, alas, is gone, but Clarissa goes on...
jennell H
station a couple of years ago. "Rhoades on Roads"? He hasn't shown up
yet though on the Food Network which is where all the cooking shows
gravitated to nor on the BBCCanada network.
Jennifer in Ottawa
--------
Michelle
It took me 2 yrs to learn that news. I missed seeing them on TV and got on
the pc to see what I could find out about the two.
Shelly
Who will even watch their reruns!news:406D8E6B...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk...
Sharon Harper
happen. Nigella is my sort of cook. He potatoes gratin are just
unbelieveabley good, as is the sticky date pudding, and the chocolate fudge
cake and the pancakes and the .....
--
Sharon From Melbourne Australia (Queen of Down Under)
http://www.geocities.com/shazrules/craft.html
"Kate Dicey" <ka...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk> wrote in message
news:406D8E6B...@diceyhome.free-online.co.uk...
Michelle
healthy at all. I don't believe they'd ever heard the two words put into the
same sentence. Just the same, I love the show. I was hoping that they'd find
another fat lady and carry on with the show, even though I know it'd never
be the same.
Shelly
"Sharon Harper" <shar...@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:406dfb94$0$441$afc3...@news.optusnet.com.au...
Kate Dicey
Sharon Harper wrote:
>
> Ooooh I love them yet most of their food was a heart attack waiting to
> happen. Nigella is my sort of cook. He potatoes gratin are just
> unbelieveabley good, as is the sticky date pudding, and the chocolate fudge
> cake and the pancakes and the .....
She's a tactile, finger-licking cook, like me! I often just cook,
without recipes, and everything usually turns out ok. I've been relying
on recipes a bit more recently while on WW, but not totally. I like a
lot of the WW recipes: very straight forward, no fuss real food, just
made with healthy options in mind.