Laying Tools vs. Railroading
Allison Orange
I'd like to get some opinions on railroading vs. using a laying tool. I
have been railroading my projects for some time, and it does improve
coverage and keeps the plies aligned, however the one ply tends to twist and
the other to untwist. Does this bother anyone else?!
After watching Shay Pendray, I thought I would try using a laying tool
instead of railroading. I am finding it kind of awkward, but I am going to
persevere, since the plies lie side by side and there is no twisting.
Then I got out a notebook from a class I took by Martha Beth Lewis and she
says, "Using a laying tool is not a substitute for railroading." Any idea
of what that means?! Makes it seem like it is preferable to railroad or
that you should do both railroading and use a laying tool. Is that even
possible? And since a laying tool aligns the plies, why would you need to
railroad too?
Any clarification about this would be welcome(!) and I would also like to
know who railroads and who uses a laying tool.
Thanks,
Allie Orange
Tallahassee, FL
acor...@worldnet.att.net
LHBanchik
of fiber I'm using.
I use railroading for rounded fibers that don't have twists in them, such as
bleding filaments, braided fibers, etc, since they won't 'untwist' with the
railroading.
I use laying tools for all other types of fibers including the wide flat ones
such as Rachael since I can repeatedly 'comb' the fibers over the laying tool
to get them flat and smooth.
Lil
Mr. Cole's Axiom: The sum of the intelligence of the planet is a constant.
The population is increasing.
MaryR
Railroading works very well. However, you would still need to give the
threaded needle that slight turn each time before you do the next stitch to
keep it from twisting up.
I love using a laying tool also and use it especially when using specialty
threads on needlepoint canvas. When working on cloth/linen with silk or
cotton floss I tend to railroad.
Why not try both and see what you think? Just do a 10 X 10 square of cross
stitches using railroading and then a laying tool. Remember, a laying tool
can be a large rug needle or any larger round smooth needle. I've often
used a large darning needle. You don't have to go out and buy a laying tool
to experiment with the method.
Railroading cannot substitute for laying tool when used *properly.* The
laying tool procedure is to smooth the ply and flatten them as you pull them
UP through the cloth. Then stroke the same ply, close to the ground fabric,
as you pull it through. Each stitch takes a little longer to make, of
course. At first you'll be slower than usual.
MaryR
"Allison Orange" <acor...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:Si8i9.24942$1C2.1...@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
Dannielle Beitzell
but sometimes with a little twist...but that's fine with me!
--
Dannielle from NY
http://www.beitzell.com/dannielle/index.htm
WIP's: Dimensions: Rose Drama
Cross My Heart - I Thee Wed: Love Like Springtime
Daisy Kingdom: Raggedy Ann and Andy, Snowman with
Trees, Minnie Moose, Heaven & Nature Jumper,
Christmas Toile Tree Skirt, HoHoHo Vest.
"Allison Orange" <acor...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
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MaryR
> Neither, I enjoy the way the fibers lay naturally. Mostly side by side,
> but sometimes with a little twist...but that's fine with me!
I agree with this. You have to look at the type of work you're doing, the
design, and just go with what you think looks appealing. However, the
little twist can't really be called 'natural.' The twist is unnatural
because it is done with the hand action and so is created. Railroading or
using a laying tool undoes this twisting. I think the laying tool technique
has the most impact on the stitches since there is so much stroking
involved, while railroading is the least invasive, perhaps the most
'natural.'
I've not used a laying tool in a long time now, but I do railroad pretty
regularly. Then, with some designs, I don't even railroad but I do give the
backwards twist on a regular basis as I work. I'm usually working over 2 on
linen.
MaryR
Di Messina
from her last year too. I do both. I railroad occasionally when I want to
pay special attention to a piece (I tend to keep the threads pretty
untwisted without railroading) and use a laying tool when I'm dealing with 3
or more strands of a fiber (usually floss) or a flat thread like Neon Rays.
I don't do both at the same time and don't use a laying tool for less than 3
strands. I'm not an especially picky stitcher, but seem to do OK, since I
win ribbons at both county and state fair. Others, I'm sure will have a
different opinion.
Di
"Allison Orange" <acor...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
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BDS2pds
tool- used wool and it seemed ok-- so it felt really uncomfortable for a long
time. BUT the insane part is that I had a large collection of the laying tools
( like tools) and just never used them !! Kind of weird but true- Yours sounds
beautiful- can I find it on line ? ( Do you make beads similar to the Italian
ones? Looking for those too ! )
>I loved laying tools so much that I
>learned to carve and I now make them for my local LNS to sell. They are made
>of
>wood, sanded to a glass finish
BDS2pds
>If so, I WISH I could make those!
Are they calle mille flori beads-- something like that-- bought them long ago
in Italy. They are fab and saw how they made them ! What a process !
CynConn
you collected dust bunnies or lint <GRIN>.
Cynthia
"BDS2pds" <bds...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020919145837...@mb-mo.aol.com...
BDS2pds
glee.
CynConn
always tell my friends that if they want something, they should buy it because
they will probably never find one like it again. And then I ooh and ahh over
their treasures and tell them what good choices they made <GRIN>. So buy away,
you deserve it! And after all today is a special day - it is Thursday (Other
special days are Monday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday, and of course
Sunday).
Cynthia
"BDS2pds" <bds...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020919171747...@mb-mo.aol.com...
BDS2pds
I do this for others also--- right now I am showing great sincere zeal for a
friend that is building the home and moving in 2 weeks into this sacred
structure. Why do I call it sacred- it is indeed as this is where all the
family events and memories are made. I agree with the comment on buy it when
you see it. It is a slogan to live by ! It is always gone later.
Elbg23
have been railroading my projects for some time, and it does improve
coverage and keeps the plies aligned, however the one ply tends to twist and
the other to untwist. Does this bother anyone else?! >>
One chart I had said that if you are using 2 threads to cut the threads and
make sure that the ends of each thread where it was cut are threaded together
in the needle. This means both threads have the same twist and will not cause
each other to untwist. It works for me, but no more loop start :-(
I love a laying tool. Mine is just about 4 inches long so I can hold it in my
left hand with my little and ring fingers pressing it against my palm. When I
need it, I just use my index finger and thumb to pull it out slightly, and push
it back after the stitch is in place. It became so automatic that I don't even
think about moving the laying tool around. By the way, I am right handed.
Over the years I have noticed that teachers of several different handcrafts I
have done, each seem to have their own way of doing something. They are right,
everyone else is wrong. Perhaps Martha Beth Lewis is a railroader. Do what
you feel is the easiest and does the best job for YOU.
I think railroading and using a laying tool at the same time would be doing the
same job twice, and I am not that energetic. Betty
PaulaB
> you collected dust bunnies or lint <GRIN>.
>
> Cynthia
>
since they are composed primarily of cat fur.) Paula B.
Danny Breidenbach
Elbg23 wrote:
>
> One chart I had said that if you are using 2 threads to cut the threads and
> make sure that the ends of each thread where it was cut are threaded together
> in the needle. This means both threads have the same twist and will not cause
> each other to untwist. It works for me, but no more loop start :-(
I think I do this more less accidentally. I railroad without thinking about it,
and I never have any twisting problem. I did have trouble trying to railroad when
using one strand of blending filament and one strand of floss together in the
needle. More often than not, it seems, the BF would end up mostly underneath the
floss. I quit worrying about it, since I was getting a decent enough amount of
sparkle out of the thing.
--Danny in West Lafayette, IN
Seanette Blaylock
about Re: Laying Tools vs. Railroading:
>EVERYBODY collects those, even me!!! (Dust kitties, I call them,
>since they are composed primarily of cat fur.) Paula B.
Someone on alt.recovery.clutter [can't remember who] swears she once
saw a dust bunny chasing one of her cats down the hall. :-)
--
Seanette Blaylock
WIPs: knitted hat/scarf set
knitted sampler afghan
crocheted sampler afghan
"Pure Elegance" needlepoint stocking [Dimensions Gold]
"Shimmer Snowflakes" felt applique stocking [Bucilla]
"Magic in Motion" cross-stitch [aka Merlin, Laine Gordon/Dimensions]
Dawn Draheim
I think it's actually mille fiore (fiori? one of those) and I believe it
translates as 'thousand flowers'. If you make glass beads, you can
buy slices of mille fiore, each slice has a flower in/on it. (They make
the design as a long cane of glass and cut off thin slices of it.) You
warm up the slices (so they don't shock and shatter) and then simply
place them on the molten bead and reheat it to smooth out the shape
of the bead. It's really easy and they look pretty cool too.
Now, making the cane of mille fiore...that's another matter I'm
sure! LOL
Dawn of the Dusk
BDS2pds
Yes that is it; thanks Dawn!! It was in the town (island) of Murano Italy.
Absolutely fabulous stuff !!! They cut it off like sausage !!!!
Belinda
to post it - it is a long response, I hope it answers your question!
Belinda
I'd like to get some opinions on railroading vs. using a laying tool.
......I got out a notebook from a class I took by Martha Beth Lewis, and she
says, "Using a laying tool is not a substitute for railroading." Any idea
of what that means?!
------
header: mb on railroading v laying tool
=------
Hi, folks (and Allie!)! This is mb, and I thougt I'd post about a laying tool
v. railroading.
Railroading makes the two strands lie parallel (I think the name comes from
railroad tracks). In this technique, you slip the needle btw the two
strands before you sink it. The strands lie without twisting. As you know,
when the strands are twisted, a "waist" occurs. It's at this "waist" that
coverage is compromised. If you have no "waist," you have maximum coverage.
Note that in railroading the twist in the thread is not "used up" in making
sts, but that doesn't mean the twist has disappeared from the thread. It's
still there, waiting to form a knot for you. Therefore, dangle your needle
more often (every 3 sts is good) to remove the twist.
Another thing you can do is to give the needle an little twist in the
"opposite direction" each time you make a st. Draw your index finger toward
the base of your thumb. This is the way you twist the needle
(unconsciosly). So you make a little twist in the other direction every
time you sink the needle. This may be more awkward that just dangling the
needle more often, but it's an alternative.
To railroad with three strands? Easy! Slip the needle btw any two and
pray! If needed, maneuver the third strand from beneath. (Do you really
want to use three strands?)
Now, as to using a laying tool, the idea is to get the thread orientated as
you want it to lie before you sink the needle. Whether you sink the needle
btw the two strands has no bearing.
I -suppose- you could using a laying tool instead of railroading, but I
don't think it makes much sense.
So, when do you use a laying tool? IMO:
x when you're using flat threads (such as Rainbow Gallery "Flair" or
Caron "Rachel" tubular nylon; or Rainbow
Gallery "Patent Leather - - great for Santa's boots and belt) bcs you
want them to lie flat for maximum effect
x when the st count of the fabric is low (such as on 6-ct Herta) bcs
everything will show up -very- well
x when dealing with more than two strands of thread (such as for
duplicate st)
x long sts (satin sts; large Rhodes sts; etc.), including Bargello done
with floss
To use a laying tool, orient the threads exactly as you want them to lie and
trap then on the surface of the fabric with the tool, trapping SW of where
the needle came to the fabric. About 1" away is a good distance. You may
have to "comb" to coax strands of floss to lie correctly. Now sink the
needle and pull the thread to the back until it won't go any farther (bcs
the laying tool has trapped the thread). Continue to pull on the thread and
at the same time, keeping tension on the thread on the top of the work, let
the tool "rise" up and over toward the R. This is sort of like a sunrise
(or a sunset, if you prefer!). Eventually the tool will be trapped, so you
pull it out.
After you try using a laying tool, it will bcm obvious that you need to
mount your fabric or grow a third hand.
Needlepointers using a laying tool much more than cross stitchers bcs
needlepointers work with flat threads more often. Needlepointers mount
their fabric much more often, too!
I suppose you -could- use a laying tool when working with three strands - -
try it and see whether this is better than railroading and
manipulating-when-needed - - but as a general rule the two techniques are
not interchangable.
As to what to use for a laying tool, a #13 tapestry needle works well, but
if you want something more exotic, look at the nifty Perfect Stitch (GripIt
Plus) or a trolley needle. Your thumb is always handy, too, of course!
On my site:
http://marthabeth.com/laying_tool.html, including a diagram
http://marthabeth.com/railroad.html, ditto
See you at PA CATS!
mb
Laurie Riley
Best,
Laurie
N. Suburban Chicago, IL
"Belinda" <ranci...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20020924210805...@mb-fl.aol.com...
Trish Brown
threads across the arm of the cross stitch they're about to form,
sticking the needle close beside (but not between) them in the
appropriate 'hole' in the fabric. Next, I trap the flat, parallel
threads with my thumb against the fabric and gently pull the rest of the
thread through. This gives a perfect, laid stitch about 90% of the time.
So, about 10% of the time, I have to jostle the imperfect stitch with my
needle to *make* it perfect.
FWIW, I find that when *I* railroad, one half of my thread untwists and
the other half twists up. Must be something in my wrist action! I only
ever use a laying tool when I'm using more than three threads for NP. I
must add, I'm not a great stitcher! I don't think anyone would use my
work as an example of perfection!
--
Trish {|:-}
Newcastle, NSW, Australia
Dennis or Karen Eichorst
Trish Brown wrote:
> FWIW, I find that when *I* railroad, one half of my thread untwists and
> the other half twists up. Must be something in my wrist action!
Not your wrist action at all, Trish, but physics at work. When you put the
two plies through your needle, unless you reverse one ply first, they're
both twisting in the same direction. When you railroad you twist one of
them clockwise and one of the anti-clockwise becuase your needle's passing
between them. Some folks say that alllowing your needle to dangle
occasionally will alleviate the problem but I don't see how that would
help. You could, I suppose, reverse one ply when you thread up so that the
twists oppose each other but then you run the risk of untwisting _both_. I
prefer your method. It's pretty much what I do, anyway.
Karen, almost done with Gracie the Witch for ANG
--
_______________________________________
"In the end, our society will be defined not only
by what we create but by what we refuse to destroy."
John C. Sawhill
Dianne Lewandowski
That means it is
identical (the twists) on both ends.
I don't know WHY Trish's threads are behaving in opposing actions,
since there's no such thing as a different twist to the thread from
one end or the other. Don't take my word for it. Go ask the
manufacturers. That's how I find out: go to the source.
What MAY be happening is that one thread is getting untwisted faster
than the other one by some action Trish is performing. Although
that's not making much sense to me. I've railroaded a LOT of
stitches, both in cross stitch and satin stitch. Have never seen this
happen with my threads EXCEPT when one is being beat up a bit more for
some reason. I've always attributed that to lousy stitching on my
part or that some thread lengths aren't quite up to par.
Dianne
Trish Brown
>
> Whoa! floss is wound in a double helix
> That means it is
> identical (the twists) on both ends.
>
> I don't know WHY Trish's threads are behaving in opposing actions,
> since there's no such thing as a different twist to the thread from
> one end or the other. Don't take my word for it. Go ask the
> manufacturers. That's how I find out: go to the source.
>
> What MAY be happening is that one thread is getting untwisted faster
> than the other one by some action Trish is performing. Although
> that's not making much sense to me. I've railroaded a LOT of
> stitches, both in cross stitch and satin stitch. Have never seen this
> happen with my threads EXCEPT when one is being beat up a bit more for
> some reason. I've always attributed that to lousy stitching on my
> part or that some thread lengths aren't quite up to par.
>
> Dianne
Woops! I forgot to add that I use a loop start! Does that change the
complexion of things? ;-> Otherwise, I'm sure it's something in the
wrist action! %-#
Dianne Lewandowski
going right down the middle of them. How come you're turning threads?
You should be just pushing them aside.
This has me curious. :-)
Now, in cross stitch, you may be twisting the needle for the second
leg. I can visualize this.
Dianne
On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 19:51:31 -0400, Tara D <Mand...@echo-on.net>
wrote:
>On Wed, 25 Sep 2002 21:44:54 GMT, dia...@heritageshoppe.com (Dianne
>Lewandowski) wrote:
>
>>What MAY be happening is that one thread is getting untwisted faster
>>than the other one by some action Trish is performing.
>
>When railroading, one strand is turned slightly clockwise while the
>other is turned slightly counter-clockwise. Now, if the threads run
>parallel on both the back and front, eventually one with twist more
>while one will untwist. What typically happens is the threads will
>twist on the back, causing you twist the untwisted thread and untwist
>the twisted thread with some regularity.
>
>Tara
chrisar...@gmail.com
D J
> Great info. Now know why I was getting do many ##$* knots. I like a laying tool but it isn't always convenient. Ie. No floor stand.
To get your thread straightened out, dangle the needle from your fabric to untwist it, then separate and straighten. Do this after each stitch for 5 or 6 stitches, then continue to dangle every other stitch. It's tedious, but the look of railroading is well worth it.
I hardly ever use my floor stand, but I do have Qsnaps and scroll bars. My scroll bars fit in a lap stand. If you like your work in your lap there are several different kinds of lap stands. If you really want a floor stand they are as cheap as $40 at Micheals.
Hope this helps,
Dawn
Joan Erickson
> On Saturday, July 1, 2017 at 10:06:44 PM UTC-4, chrisar...@gmail.com wrote:
>> Great info. Now know why I was getting do many ##$* knots.
>> I like a laying tool but it isn't always convenient.
> I've managed to railroad while holding the fabric in my hands.
> Hope this helps,
> Dawn
I agree with Dawn. I've often railroaded stitches and I almost
exclusively use a hoop.
Another thing that helps prevent knotting (if you don't already do this)
is to separate your plies after you cut them from the skein, then put
them back together. This eliminates the twist from when they wind the
skein.
--
Joan
See my pictures here: http://ndjoan.shutterfly.com/pictures
If worries can cure your sickness, prolong your life, or replace
happiness, then go ahead and worry! If they can't, why worry?
Enjoy every moment of your life...there is no second chance.
Unknown
Martha Beth Lewis
RR is normally for 2 strands of floss. Remember to let your needle dangle; after every st is not too often! Just bcs the twist has gone from the leg of that particular xst doesn't mean the twist is gone in the thread. In fact, I hasn't. It's just gone farther up the thread....just waiting to turn into a knot. Dangle that needle!
You can RR with three strands, but it's a pain in the you-know-where. Whenever I've stitched on 14- or 16-ct fabric (a.k.a 28- and 32-ct evenweave over two) with three strands, it always leads to an enhancement of my vocabulary. Ack!
A laying tool is used when you have a flat thread OR you are stitching with 3 or more plies in the needle. If you think RR is hard with 3 strands, try 6! (No, don't. Run for chocolate instead and pick up your laying tool on the way back to your stitching nest and THEN try 6.)
- Bring the thread to the front of the work.
- Lay the thread to the SW of the hole where you came up (I'm speaking to RH-ed stitchers).
- Take the tip of the laying tool and "comb thru" the strands, aligning them.
- Now "capture" the threads against the fabric with the laying tool, keeping the threads to the SW of the hole.
- Sink the needle and pull thru slowly. The thread will eventually tighten at the laying tool. When this happens, lift the laying tool with the LH and "follow" it up along the thread, keeping tension on the thread as you pull the needle thru to the back of the work.
mb (Go Gators!)