The Pricing of Needlework
Dianne Lewandowski
Thought you might be interested in the following:
In the April 2001 issue of "HomeStyle" magazine, hand embroidery was
advertised as available through Neiman Marcus. The photo featured
napkins and placemats with waterlilies that matched dinnerware featuring
a similar design. From what I could ascertain, the work was French
knots, stem stitch, and even featured a large insect with stumpwork
(raised) wings. The edges were all neatly buttonholed (closed blanket).
The prices? Napkins $75/ea; Placemats $100/ea.
Yes, there are persons willing to pay the price. You just have to find
the market.
Conversely, the next time you do a set such as this, for yourself or a
loved one, think how extravagant it is! What a treat . . . and all by
yourself.
Dianne
Martha Schmidt
"Dianne Lewandowski" <dia...@heritageshoppe.com> wrote in message
news:3B4606A8...@heritageshoppe.com...
AND those items advertised were probably stitched by workers making $
.05 an hour - Sad, but true.
--
Martha Schmidt
http://needlemaid.home.att.net
needl...@worldnet.att.net
Robert and Elizabeth
> AND those items advertised were probably stitched by workers making $
> .05 an hour - Sad, but true.
I am on a campaign to enlighten people on the value of needlework. I
_really__hate_ when I see needlepoint stockings advertised for 29$ USA,
when I know that the kit to make them is the same price. You know that
the stitcher is only getting pennies an hour for others to be able to
sell them at that price.
Elizabeth
The catalog in question was Lillian Vernon, who really (IMO) should know
better.
Dianne Lewandowski
rightfully pointed it out. Even wanted to say that in my post: "And
I'll bet the embroiderer only got 25-cents an hour". But I was trying
to steer clear of that aspect.
Yes, it pains me. But what I wanted to get across, as well, was that
most of us are undercharging for our work - which translates to
devaluing ourselves. And that it IS possible to get big bucks.
The other end of that, of course, needs to be shouted from the roof
tops. I applaud you both for speaking out on that score. It just was
not the focus of my post :-)
Dianne
Robert and Elizabeth
> Martha & Elizabeth: Oh, I thought about all of that. And you
> rightfully pointed it out. Even wanted to say that in my post: "And
> I'll bet the embroiderer only got 25-cents an hour". But I was trying
> to steer clear of that aspect.
>
> Yes, it pains me. But what I wanted to get across, as well, was that
> most of us are undercharging for our work - which translates to
> devaluing ourselves. And that it IS possible to get big bucks.
>
> The other end of that, of course, needs to be shouted from the roof
> tops. I applaud you both for speaking out on that score. It just was
> not the focus of my post :-)
I managed to convert my Sis in law to the needlework is worth a lot of
money view. We discussed hourly wages for skilled workers, and decided
that $25 an hour was not overpaying at all (and that $2 an hour was a
deadly insult), and when I then pointed out to her that the piece I had
given to her as a gift took me about 20 hours to stitch, making it $500
worth of picture on her wall (at 25 dollars an hour), she was amazed.
One, that I would do all that work and not have it valued by other
people, and two, that I would then _give_ it away. Better to give it as
gifts to people who appreciate it than to sell it to people to whom it
is then worth what was paid. This is, of course, JMO.
Elizabeth
Anne Tuchscherer
"value" of a piece of needlework? I am thinking about a situation where a
home was destroyed and the insurance company is writing a check to replace
the home and posessions. I am not in this situtation, just curious.
Anne (in Ellicott City, MD)
s.e.l
Having had our house broken into a few times, I now look at some items that
we have since aquired and wonder if I should put a rider on the policy to
cover them. We had several pieces of jewellry taken once that, apparently
in hindsight, should have been mentioned specifically. That makes me wonder
about needlework. In particular a few antique samplers that have been
passed down through generations to the eldest daughter, etc. Despite the
devestation I'd feel if my own work was lost- the devestation over losing
these samplers which are hundreds of years old would be that much worse.
I'm not certain how to go about getting the piece valued. When I looked
into it through a friend who is an antiques dealer, she felt the best places
here in Ontario were our Royal Ontario Museum and the Textile Museum, both
located in Toronto. But I'd shudder to think of how expensive it might be
to have them appraised.
I would be curious how an insurance company might look at valuing my own
work, however. Obviously a sampler that is 200 years old + would have a
"recognizable value". I don't know about something like Flower Power or
another piece I've completed. But its definitely something to look into.
Shannon
姣 My mind works like lightning -- one brilliant flash and it's gone ! 姣
29/f, civil engineer, Toronto, ON, Canada
WIP: Angel of Love (MLI); Summer Sampler (MLI); Baby sampler; Hearts sampler
(Charland); Golfers (Lynne Nicoletti); Snoopy (kit)
F.James Cripwell
I am not expert, but it is my understanding that insurance policies
generally cover items to a maximum amount. If you like you can name the
value of *any* item in your household for insurance purposes, and the
insurance company will quote a price for the coverage. Thus if you want
to say your masterpiece is worth 50,000 dollars, the insurance company
will merely quote you a premium. If you pay it, and the said masterpiece
is destroyed, you will get your 50,000 dollars. HTH.
--
Jim Cripwell.
Thoughts from a confused philosopher.
If a husband speaks in a forest and his wife does not hear him,
is he still wrong?
Skyhooks
Perhaps a slight shiver for the appraisal cost is better than a severe
shudder due to loss of whatever type?? I know, sometimes there are
priorities and one like this isn't as critical as other expenses. Good
luck.
Sweet Stitching!!!
Helen (Skyhooks)
hmardis at uiuc dot edu
http://www.staff.uiuc.edu/~hmardis/index.html
"reply to" address antispammed -- frog the xxx.
TFTD: Good things turn up when both corners of your mouth do the same
:D
PaulaB
> we have since aquired and wonder if I should put a rider on the policy to
> cover them. We had several pieces of jewellry taken once that, apparently
> in hindsight, should have been mentioned specifically. That makes me wonder
> about needlework. In particular a few antique samplers that have been
> passed down through generations to the eldest daughter, etc. Despite the
> devestation I'd feel if my own work was lost- the devestation over losing
> these samplers which are hundreds of years old would be that much worse.
>
> I'm not certain how to go about getting the piece valued. When I looked
> into it through a friend who is an antiques dealer, she felt the best places
> here in Ontario were our Royal Ontario Museum and the Textile Museum, both
> located in Toronto. But I'd shudder to think of how expensive it might be
> to have them appraised.
>
>
We had some antiques appraised once and our insurance agent said that
all we needed for that was a letter on an antique dealer's letterhead
stating the value of the items listed. The appraisals were fairly
cheap, too, and were done by taking a listing of the items with their
known provenance, age, dimensions, and condition, along with photos,
to a local antique dealer. I didn't have to take anything out of the
house and, although I don't know how accurate it really is, I felt
better about my DGM's sister's china doll and DH's GGM's stained-glass
lamp after that. (It was fun to see that the mirror DH got on an
auction for $6 was worth $195, according to this dealer.) Needlework
may be a whole 'nother thing - if I were you, I would call some
reputable dealers and ask how they charge for appraisals, at least. I
learned that items are covered against such things as accidental
breakage if they are appraised and itemized on your policy. Of
course, you can never replace an heirloom, but a settlement after a
disaster may help a little. I don't know beans about insurance, but
HTH Paula B.
Susan in Alabama
<snipped to the chase>
>
> I would be curious how an insurance company might look at valuing my own
> work, however. Obviously a sampler that is 200 years old + would have a
> "recognizable value". I don't know about something like Flower Power or
> another piece I've completed. But its definitely something to look into.
Hi Shannon:
The standard formula is cost of materials plus prevailing minimum wage
for hours spent working the piece. I can't remember if you get full
replacement cost on the materials. Probably you could with a special
rider (such as you would purchase to cover heirloom china or
collectible figures). In fact, I believe that any type of coverage for
needlework requires a rider.
Susan W.
Sally
at callin...@hotmail.com wrote on 7/9/01 3:49 PM:
> The standard formula is cost of materials plus prevailing minimum wage
> for hours spent working the piece.
Just curious....
what/who's "standard" is this?
I don't know why minimum wage would be a standard... unless the creator of
the item thinks that's all their time is worth <G>.
To me, the item is more priceless than that. Just because I may have
several items that go up in smoke that probably represent 500 hours of work
doesn't mean I have another 500 hours in the foreseeable future to devote to
replacing them <G>... and even if I could scrape together the time to do it,
why is my time only worth minimum wage?
I doubt any other items lost in a catastrophe would bear this "standard"..
<G>.. can you imagine trying to find a plumber or electrician that will
replace the items melted in a fire for the cost of materials and minimum
wage? <G>
I have no problem at all putting at least a $15 / hour value on my stuff.
Matter of fact, I went through something like this a few years ago when an
old bat of a woman stole a piece of beadwork from a booth we had set up at a
local craft/art fair.
The item was a Santa Claus bag (*the* one on my web site in the "show and
tell" and "kit" section). Long story short.. we caught her, I got my bag
back, and the police needed to put a value on it. When I said $600, the cop
didn't want to write that value down until I said "there's about $100 worth
of materials here, and about 40 hours worth of work.. so how much is 40
hours worth to *you*?"
The price of the item put it into a higher level of crime .. and the woman
was arrested and had to be bailed out for it <G>.
There's no way I would accept minimum wage for anything I do <G>.
Time is just *much* too precious.
IMHO.
Sally
--
my secret stitchy page: www.beadsbeads.com/sallysstitchystuff.ivnu
WIPs-Celtic Banner ~*~ Come and Share ~*~ Angel of Cross Stitch ~*~
Nature's Home Afghan ~*~ Birds of the Air (Stoney Creek) ~*~
Woodland Walk ~*~ The Nativity ~*~ Home Is Where My Garden Is ~*~
Dog Bone Wisdom ~*~ Be Scary ~*~ Garden of Kindness ~*~ Nordic Angel
Murraysl
stitching for a life time, so why should we value ourselves as if we were
college students?
That is the problem with crafters in general they sell their work at cost too
often.
:-)
Sandra
Maria
How little are model stitchers paid?
Heck, if respect is shown only by dollar amounts, then how little do
designers "respect" the pieces commissioned from their own designs?
I'm not arguing that designers can afford to pay more, as that increase
will either run the chart prices even higher, or more designers out of
business or bring about a slow down of design output as more designers
will have to stitch their own pieces.
I'm simply asking if we're being hypocrytical to ask people outside the
industry/art to respect/value more highly than do people inside it, if
$$ are the only criteria to be used to measure that respect.
Frankly, I think more of us should be equating our stitched pieces with
Art Gallery Exhibits and sales and not crafts shows or crafts show sales
figures.
Disclaimer: I stitch for pleasure. I give very few of my pieces away. I
have most, however, on "permanent loan with total visitation/access
privileges."
--
maria from MA
remove the munge to reply
Murraysl wrote in message
<20010710015237...@ng-mc1.aol.com>...
PaulaB
I think the root of the problem is that our society undervalues
handmade things. If it is worth something, it has to be marketed
aggresively, ocerpackaged in such a way that it looks like more than
it is, sold through a big retail chain, and appealing to the masses.
Needlework doesn't fit hardly any of those criteria, especially not
finished items. Somewhere along the line handmade became homemade,
and, unless it's cookies, that implies "inferior" to most people.
When are people going to get tired of the tacky junk that millions of
dollars are spent on year after year because it doesn't last any
longer than that? Yes, I do like my microwave, my cordless phone, and
my computer, but many things were done much better several generations
ago. This is something I could rant on, but I think I'll let some of
you take over now. Am I right? Paula B.
Dianne Lewandowski
The issue goes deeper than this. But we're so material, that I don't
see a change coming anytime soon.
Dianne
s.e.l
> handmade things.
I would agree with this. My grandmother has crochetted absolutely beautiful
doilies and edgings, pillows, etc. most of my life. I was absolutely
shocked years ago when her items were sold at a sale - for $1.00 a piece.
That wouldn't even cover the materials ! Now she said she didn't mind as it
was going to charity. I was furious. And now looking back, it hurts even
more as she now no longer can crochet due to a stroke a year ago.
I treasure her handmade gifts to me more than anything. And having watched
her over the years has given me a love of handcrafts. That's why my
"collections" involve things like hand-blown glass balls, pottery of all
sorts and sizes, woven table mats and so forth. I can only hope I instill a
similar value in my children.
Shannon
«» My mind works like lightning -- one brilliant flash and it's gone ! «»
Susan in Alabama
> in article 96cd818.01070...@posting.google.com, Susan in Alabama
> at callin...@hotmail.com wrote on 7/9/01 3:49 PM:
>
> > The standard formula is cost of materials plus prevailing minimum wage
> > for hours spent working the piece.
>
>
> Just curious....
>
> what/who's "standard" is this?
>
Hi Sally:
The standard is that of the insurance industry. I cited it because the
previous poster *asked* for it. Insurance valuation is a completely
different issue from personal valuation, open-market value, or any
other form of determining worth. Since underwriters, not customers,
control the insurance industry, the only question is how much exposure
(payout obligation) the insurer is willing to risk in the event that
disaster actually strikes. The answer is: precious little. You may
personally believe that your work is worth a minimum of $15 per hour,
and you may even be able to cite evidence from guilds, museums, etc.
... but no insurance underwriter is obliged to write up a policy for
you on that basis.
The insurance industry is in fact the insurance cabal. You are free to
shop around, but the industry response to requests for fair valuation
is universal, and it bears no resemblance to the response you received
from that cop in a criminal investigation (which is *not* an insurance
investigation). Imagine a grinning little red man, with horns poking
out from beneath his Brill-creamed hair, and long, glistening fangs
dripping sarcasm all over his neatly trimmed Van Dyke: Why
*cerrrrrtainly* you are free to consult one of our competitors <taps
fingers together here>.
Insurance companies are in business to make money, not to pay claims.
Even to get the minimum wage valuation, you will almost certainly be
asked to provide proof from someone with "credentials" that the hours
of work you claim are within reason. Oh I'm sure there are specialty
companies that will write a policy reflecting higher values. However,
I'm equally sure that the hassles and proofs are even more onerous,
and of course the average person cannot afford the much higher
premiums.
Mind you, I have just spent 3 working days trying to get *one*
patient's medical insurance claim paid -- despite having coded the
!#$#!@ thing correctly in the first place. So I might be a bit biased
on the subject of insurance standards. A certain major provider is
currently picking on people with lipid disorders. For *six months,*
every claim we file for lipid labs is rejected because we allegedly
coded it as a "routine screen," which this company does not cover
unless a special prevention rider is purchased (most policy holders
can't afford it). My boss is a specialist. He doesn't *do* routine
screens. We treat only patients with documented lipid disorders who
didn't respond to standard treatment regimens under the care of their
family doctor. I don't even *know* what the routine screen code is. We
put the code for mixed hyperlipidemia, which is a truthful and
coverable disease code. I have electronic and paper copies of the
*exact* submissions to prove it. Oh well, eventually they'll move on
to diabetics or hypertensives or something. Of course 3/4 of our
patients also have these or other comorbid conditions so it will
*still* be my problem ...
OK ... that's a different rant altogether.
Susan
Anne Tuchscherer
sale are definitely hand-made. Not just hand-made, but hand-made by artisans. Admittedly, some of the
stuff there is machine made, but that is generally easy spot. The prices can be quite steep, but I
usually feel that they are not out-of-bounds. Some things I would love to buy are just out of my price
range, but occasionally I find something that I have to have, no matter the price. I especially like
the shops where the craft is actively being done. I could sit and watch the glassblower all day. I
have several of his pieces, none of them were cheap, but what makes them even move special is that
after I ordered them he made some of them as his demonstration pieces while I was watching.
Anne (in Ellicott City, MD)
PaulaB wrote:
> ...
Ctd cross
Handmade items be it cross stitch, needlepoint, crochet, knit aren't given much
monetary value because the majority of people creating them are women. For
centuries what women have created was considered to be "busy" work, something
to keep them occupied while the man of the house was out earning a living. What
the lady of the house did to pass the time wasn't considered to be valuable or
worthy of mention. I think that sentiment has been passed from generation to
generation of women. Women not only undervalue their craft skills, we tend
to undervalue most of our abilities.
Connie (drop xslvr to reply)
WIP: Dale Burdett's Dozen Long Stemmed Roses (yellow roses on 28 ct black
Jobelan);Kappie Originals Oriental Tulips
Karen C - California
>and, unless it's cookies, that implies "inferior" to most people.
In many cases it IS inferior.
E.g., Tia Mary is a skilled dressmaker. The clothes she home-makes are
indistinguishable from fine hand-tailoring because she uses the same
techniques. OTOH, I've seen a number of women proudly parading around in
clothes that just screamed "homemade" because they didn't put the same level of
care into it. "I made this dress in two hours!", and you have to bite your
tongue not to say "yeah, honey, it shows".
Similarly, I had a co-worker whose homemade brownies could pass for hockey
pucks because she couldn't be bothered to learn a few tricks of the trade (like
all ingredients room temperature). Her way was faster, and therefore "better".
We've come a long way from priding ourselves on how well we can make something,
to priding ourselves on how fast we can make something.
I was taught "you can do it fast, or you can do it right". If more people
understood that, there'd be more understanding of why handmade is (and *should*
be) more expensive than machine made.
--
Finished 6/12/01 - June Gemstone Dragon
WIP: getting my health back, Calif Sampler, Holiday Snowglobe
Paralegal - Editor - Researcher
http://www.craft-searcher.com/kmc/index.html
Don't risk your on-line privileges! I report all Spam.
Karen C - California
>to undervalue most of our abilities.
Precisely. I just read a business-related book by a man who charges $800 for
something I hesitate to charge even $50 for, and apparently he has no problem
getting customers to pay it. The same day, someone I quoted my fee to pointed
out "I can do it myself for free" and hung up when I refused to cut the price
to $10. Made me wonder whether it's his gender that convinces people that his
work is worth 16x as much as mine?
Robert and Elizabeth
> Disclaimer: I stitch for pleasure. I give very few of my pieces away. I
> have most, however, on "permanent loan with total visitation/access
> privileges."
This did make me laugh. I give away a lot of what I make, but have
recently begun to announce that with the gift I get visitation rights,
as the maker of the object, and that I like to look at the pieces I have
stitched. I didn't know anyone else declared visitation rights :-).
Elizabeth
Maria
>
>Elizabeth
Oh, you betcha! <G>
Nothing leaves this house until they agree (which they do).
I also let them know that on occassion I may to have to raid their walls
to schlep some pieces off to a show, a shop, or "drag 'n brag."
Dianne Lewandowski
area of needlework. In general, men don't have a clue one way or
another. Except those who love and partake in needlework - against great
odds in today's world. So, it's up to those who execute needlework to
teach those who don't. I like to hand those sniping persons a piece of
work and ask them to replicate it. :-)
Everyone's heard the story of the woman who crochets those useless
mile-a-minute afghans (said for clarity sake - don't shoot me) and
wouldn't purchase a handmade fine crocheted lace doily because,
"Harumph, I can do that myself. Wouldn't pay $50 for it!" My comment
to them (and I've said it on numerous occasions), "Then how come I don't
see you making them?".
The amount of junk I see makes me shudder. So, it's up to us to show
them up by our skills. Learn, perfect, show off. And price
accordingly! Unite. Refuse to purchase inferior needlework - no matter
the charity. Refuse to purchase a beautiful whatever that is
underpriced. Grit your teeth. Spread the word. When the bazaars no
longer have anything to sell - you can offer yours.
Dianne
s.e.l
> for hours spent working the piece.
Thanks for letting me know Susan.
That is a slightly terrifying thought, however. For example, if I were to
estimate that Flower Power took me 200 hours to complete, which I am more
than sure it did as I'm 1/2 done Angel of Love and am at about 60 hours...
and it's 1/4 the size....
That would be 200 hours times minimum wage plus the cost of materials -
which ran me about $155 dollars - plus I'd imagine the cost of framing,
which is outrageous at around $600 for frame, mats, den glass, etc.... the
total bill for Flower Power would be between $2000 and $2500.
*faint*
Velvet
>
> >. I didn't know anyone else declared visitation rights :-).
> >
> >Elizabeth
>
> Oh, you betcha! <G>
>
> Nothing leaves this house until they agree (which they do).
> I also let them know that on occassion I may to have to raid their walls
> to schlep some pieces off to a show, a shop, or "drag 'n brag."
when the recipients pass on, the stitched pieces come directly back to
me - no questions asked, and in (hopefully) pristine condition. They
will be packaged with care, and handled with care and I don't care what
other family member says they want it, it wasn't stitched for them so
they can't have it. It sounds like I'm being horribly callous, but
you'd have to understand the rest of the family members to know that if
I don't lay down the "ground rules" they'll either fight like rabid
hounds over the piece, or pitch it.
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Sally
>
> The items I'm giving away as gifts will come with the condition that
> when the recipients pass on, the stitched pieces come directly back to
> me - no questions asked, and in (hopefully) pristine condition. They
> will be packaged with care, and handled with care and I don't care what
> other family member says they want it, it wasn't stitched for them so
> they can't have it. It sounds like I'm being horribly callous, but
> you'd have to understand the rest of the family members to know that if
> I don't lay down the "ground rules" they'll either fight like rabid
> hounds over the piece, or pitch it.
Jen....
How *exactly* do you convey this message to your recipient?
I have a very special aunt back in Minnesota that I want to do "The Lord's
Supper" for, but I absolutely want that piece to come back to my family when
she is no longer with us on the planet.
I've thought about this for other pieces as well, but I just can't figure
out the best way to diplomatically, but firmly, get those wishes stated for
all grabby relatives to know and understand - much less respect!! Short of
having a statement on the back of the piece, how do you do it?
And if you are putting a statement of some kind on the backside, what does
yours say?
Touchy, touchy subject. <G>
Sally
Velvet
> The amount of junk I see makes me shudder. So, it's up to us to show
> them up by our skills. Learn, perfect, show off. And price
> accordingly! Unite. Refuse to purchase inferior needlework - no matter
> the charity. Refuse to purchase a beautiful whatever that is
> underpriced. Grit your teeth. Spread the word. When the bazaars no
> longer have anything to sell - you can offer yours.
Speaking of beautiful pieces up for auction ... I'm kinda glad to see
this one go for so much. It's probably close to what I'd hope someone
would get for it; and at least it's done on linen, unlike most of the
other pieces I've seen.
http://cgi.ebay.com/aw-cgi/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=1608353152
In fact, most of the MLI's I see up for auction on Ebay are going for
over $100. What makes me sad are those little pieces you see going for
$2; and what makes me MAD are seeing the finished _FREE_ patterns that
are selling (currently, there's an auction for the COMPLETED MLI's 2001
Christmas Angel; current bid is 32.50 on it.
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Cynthia
That is the only way you would probably have any "legal" right to it. And then
make that bequest clear to the rest of the family. I would tell them that the
piece has extreme sentimental value for you because of the love you felt for
your aunt while you were stitching it for her and you wish it back.
Cynthia (who has the same kind of relatives.
"Sally" <bead...@rmi.net> wrote in message
news:B770CBDB.8BFF%bead...@rmi.net...
Cynthia
arrangements. The sign said "Of course you CAN make it but WILL you". That
booth was doing quite a brisk business.
Cynthia
"Dianne Lewandowski" <dia...@heritageshoppe.com> wrote in message
news:3B4B6397...@heritageshoppe.com...
Maria
>How *exactly* do you convey this message to your recipient?
Hi Sally,
I'm not Jen.
This is also a condition and definition of "permanent loan".
There is nothing touchy about this. I know the hours I put into the
project. Hours I didn't spend doing something else (sshhhh, so I didn't
want to do anything else, that's not the point!).
There are a number of family members who will never get a piece on
permanent loan and I have no idea who my nephews will marry, thus the
"loan" condition--if I'm still around to care about such things.
I come right out and tell them and everyone else in the family.
Repeating it when asked to give "the tour" (the explanation about
materials, stitches, history etc of the story behind the pieces). I
haven't gotten around to pasting it on the back of the pieces, but
that's a good idea.
It's amazing how many times even direct conversation is misunderstood.
So I make sure I say it, and say it often so that the baracudas in the
bunch are reminded whose needlework it is so that it doesn't get
mistaken as part of anyone else's estate. Fortunately (or perhaps "un"
given the unsavory aspect of some of the members) it's all been family.
(yah, right out of Alfred Hitchcock). I know how valuable my
needlework is to me. I make sure those who take an interest (and
perhaps a hope of getting a piece) value it as highly. If they don't,
they don't get the piece.
hth
Velvet
>
> >
> > The items I'm giving away as gifts will come with the condition that
> > when the recipients pass on, the stitched pieces come directly back to
> > me - no questions asked, and in (hopefully) pristine condition. They
> > will be packaged with care, and handled with care and I don't care what
> > other family member says they want it, it wasn't stitched for them so
> > they can't have it. It sounds like I'm being horribly callous, but
> > you'd have to understand the rest of the family members to know that if
> > I don't lay down the "ground rules" they'll either fight like rabid
> > hounds over the piece, or pitch it.
>
> Jen....
>
> How *exactly* do you convey this message to your recipient?
Sally, I wish I knew. I'm still trying to figure that one out. One's
for my GMIL and the other's for my MIL ... I think DH was going to just
out right tell them that if something happens to one of them, then the
stitched piece goes to the other, and if/when there comes a time that
their both no longer with us, the stitched pieces come back to us. I
think DH has one aunt he can entrust with making sure they come back to
me, but it's something we still have to talk about (since I'm nowhere
near starting on them yet, it hasn't been an issue yet). The third
piece will be for my GM, and it'll probably be my dad and/or one of my
Aunts whom I convey the message to ... actually, of my 3 aunts, there's
only 1 I'm worried would try to grab it up in a heartbeat.
> And if you are putting a statement of some kind on the backside, what does
> yours say?
I'll let you know when we get to that part :)
> Touchy, touchy subject. <G>
Very, but considering the time and money I'm going to be putting into
all these pieces (I've got everything but a chance to start for GMIL's
project), I think it's safe to say that I think I more than deserve to
have them come back to me ... at such a time the recipient is no longer
with us. I think MIL and GMIL will more than understand, and take steps
accordingly.
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Mike & June Huber
puts it in a higher skill level category that minimum wage in my book!
Imagine your work for sale in a fine art gallery. What kind of price tag
would it have in that setting?
June in Houston
"s.e.l" wrote:
>
> > The standard formula is cost of materials plus prevailing minimum wage
> > for hours spent working the piece.
>
> That is a slightly terrifying thought, however. For example, if I were to
> estimate that Flower Power took me 200 hours to complete....
Sally
ma_st...@yahoomunge.com wrote on 7/10/01 3:48 PM:
>
>> How *exactly* do you convey this message to your recipient?
>
> Hi Sally,
> I'm not Jen.
>
> This is also a condition and definition of "permanent loan".
Upon that thought... how about an engraved metal plate on the back side that
says "Property of: XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX, loaned with love to XXXXXXXXXXX"
Do you think that would be enough to get the piece back in the event of a
family war upon the recipient's death or upon the recipient being moved into
a nursing care facility, etc?
Gosh.. this seems like such a terrible thing to need to talk about, but I've
got a sister who is an absolute little vulture... and you don't know about
how other cousins, etc will behave in circumstances such as this.
My father died last year, and he was the king of all pack-rats. He had a
whole pole barn filled to the brim with all sorts of toys. My son, the only
boy in the family, didn't get so much as a screwdriver or fishing lure from
the estate. Very sad. (obviously, I didn't see a thing, either)
I just want to make sure that the few things that I ever get completed can
stay with my kids.
Sally
Sally
wrote on 7/10/01 4:01 PM:
> Very, but considering the time and money I'm going to be putting into
> all these pieces (I've got everything but a chance to start for GMIL's
> project), I think it's safe to say that I think I more than deserve to
> have them come back to me ... at such a time the recipient is no longer
> with us. I think MIL and GMIL will more than understand, and take steps
> accordingly.
>
> --
> Jen Persinger
You know, Jen, although *we* may think that *we* deserve to get them back
more than anyone else.. does it really work that way in your family?
It sure doesn't in mine!
I gave my dad a good sized diamond that was mounted in a very handsome onyx
ring, with an inscription that read "I love you Joey" ... so that when my
dad felt like it, or when he passed on, that it would go to my son, Joel.
Never saw that ring.
When relatives of mine have passed on, I've never offered to get back any
other gifts that were given to them by me. (but I have to admit, I wasn't
expecting anything, either)
I know how you feel.. because we *made* these things that they should have
more of a sentimental value and be thought of with enough respect to give
back to us. I wholeheartedly agree with you.. but my bet is on that 99% of
people don't think that way when they have to deal with an estate, etc.
Especially if you have any vultures in your family <G>. By my experience,
the vultures go for anything of value and will just trash can anything else
they don't want to be bothered with.
JMO YMMV <G>
Sally
Cynthia
No matter how many family members "agree" that this was understood, the executor
of the estate has the final say unless the will specifically states who gets the
piece.
Cynthia (whose mom found that out the hard way).
"Sally" <bead...@rmi.net> wrote in message
news:B770DBFD.8C1A%bead...@rmi.net...
Sally
cyn...@ATYahoo.com wrote on 7/10/01 4:33 PM:
> The plate might be enough, but to be certain, it probably should be in the
> will.
> No matter how many family members "agree" that this was understood, the
> executor
> of the estate has the final say unless the will specifically states who gets
> the
> piece.
>
> Cynthia (whose mom found that out the hard way).
Ug. I can't imagine asking someone to go through that when you give them a
gift. It's a bother, and it's expensive (lawyer fees, I would think).
What if ... (I don't like this idea, either... but it's gotta be easier than
amending a will) ... with an engraved plate on the back, what if the
recipient signed some kind of receipt for the "loan" of the object?
Would that stand up? I would think the executor would have to settle all
debts and obligations if at all possible.. so wouldn't that include
returning loaned items?
Sally
KDLark
back -- I certainly don't need baby samplers with someone else's kid's name on
it, or goofy "bears in hats" or Hummel figurines or even the Angel of Hope
('cause it's on blue Aida, that's why!) So I guess the secret here is not to
give away anything you ever will WANT back, just give away the stuff THEY want!
In fact, I would be horrified if I DID get some of that stuff back
(particularly the Angel of Hope). Yes, I suppose I would be sad if something
ended up trashed, but that's the way it goes...my silly mother certainly
regrets that she didn't save all the beautiful crochet my grandmother made, but
somehow I don't think my daughter, being a fellow stitcher, will do that. The
only thing I worry about is "The Angel of Cross-Stitch," 'cause I know my
daughter thinks it's...gaudy. It will probably live in her coat closet.
Now who gets my stuff when I die is a different story, I suppose. There's sure
to be a bit of a squabble there, if my kids continue to be so antagonistic
toward each other...maybe I'd better write something on the back of them.
Katrina L.
Velvet
> You know, Jen, although *we* may think that *we* deserve to get them back
> more than anyone else.. does it really work that way in your family?
>
> It sure doesn't in mine!
It probably won't in my DH's family ... after all, these are the same
people who couldn't get together and visit his GM when she was in the
hospital for hip replacement surgery - over Easter, and the Uncle (in
law) is a preacher - they didn't even so much as send her a get well
card. They're the ones I'm most afraid of snatching it up (I have
planned: MLI's "Angel of Mercy I" on 40-ct Enchanted Night Graziano
(Enchanted Night is one of the new Color Blooms colors; it's like a dark
denim blue with some lighter swirls in it ... absolutely gorgeous)
stitched in Eterna Silks. And of course, she'll be framed when we ship
her out (DH's family is all in IN). Most of my family will respect my
wishes and return the piece if I ask for it ... I've only got 1 Aunt
who's a greedy, self-centered ... we won't go there.
> Especially if you have any vultures in your family <G>. By my experience,
> the vultures go for anything of value and will just trash can anything else
> they don't want to be bothered with.
>
And that's the other concern I have. GMIL doesn't get along with GFIL
(step-father to MIL); and GFIL absolutely, postively DESPISES DH and
anything having to do with him (most of DH's family is rather upset with
him for not being a Christian, but that's another can of worms) ... my
biggest fear is that he'll just pitch the piece after she passes on,
with no regard for anyone's wishes. Although if we have to, DH & I will
*personally* go out and take the piece if we have to. I liked the idea
of attaching a plate to the back stating "property of XXXX, loaned to
XXXX" (or something like that). Again, it's something DH & I still need
to discuss.
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Amy B.
wrote:
>of attaching a plate to the back stating "property of XXXX, loaned to
>XXXX" (or something like that). Again, it's something DH & I still need
>to discuss.
That might be an idea - the set of furniture in my grandfather's
living room/parlor has brass plates on each piece. He's the third
generation to have the set, and he's already taken the plates to have
my dad's name engraved on them, so they have my gggf, my ggf, my gf,
and my dad's names so far, with room for more. (He also specifically
mentioned them in his will, as my dad *isn't* the eldest son....)
Amy
who is severely coveting the furniture but doesn't want to inherit
them for a long, looooong time
Cynthia
hectic days following a death), you could have an "equivalent" put into the
will, such as "Velvet gets the Angel of Mercy back or $10,000 from the estate".
Since that will hit em in the wallet, even the most greedy will likely comply.
I know I have been harping on wills in this thread but that is the *only* way to
guarantee who gets what. Otherwise you might have to go to court and rely on
family backing you up. And when there is as much animosity as folks here have
indicated, the old "I lost it" or "It was thrown out" excuse could be used.
That is why the equivalent cost was mentioned. You all might want to contact
your own lawyers to find out what is binding and what is not. I don't know if
the plate would be enough or not (though it seems to me that it would).
Cynthia
"Velvet" <vel...@rootaction.net> wrote in message
news:3B4B949F...@rootaction.net...
Cynthia
is to be able to give them to someone who wants them. With my mom's family,
folks claimed items that they didn't want, just to keep someone else from
getting them. And of course since they didn't want them, the items were not
taken care of (antiques used as tables for potting plants for example). And
there was a definite "I will destroy it before I see you get it" mentality. I
put a lot of work into my projects and hope that some of them "live on" after I
do. And that means keeping them in the hands of people who will treasure them.
I guess it depends on whether it was a "gift" or not. Gifts are projects like
bibs, samplers etc. "Loaners" for me would be like the needlepoint picture I
made for my mom that took over 700 hours as a very low estimate.
I have the reverse problem <GRIN>. When my mom died, everything I had ever made
for her was given back to me. My mom treasured those gifts and at the time,
they were too close of a reminder of her for the rest of the family to want to
have (especially my dad). Some things have been "redone" as in reframing or
reworking for items that the family liked to take some of that "constant
reminding" away.
Cynthia
"KDLark" <kdl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010710193816...@ng-fe1.aol.com...
PaulaB
> In many cases it IS inferior.
>
not say in may cases. Here, in the heart of
grown-up-hippy,-art-and-craft-heaven, there are many, many people
turning out wonderfully high-quality handmade things - blown glass,
stained glass, leather, jewelry, furniture to die for, cut paper,
weaving, spinning, silk dying, and yes, dressmaking. Some of those
people do quite a brisk business, but few of them are able to make a
living good enough to support a family. I have several friends who
sew clothing for themselves and their children that is much nicer than
anything you can buy. I guess my friends don't spend two hours on one
garment! That said, there is a WalMart in town, and I am guilty of
shopping there, too, and many of the college students who come here
from out of town probably never go anywhere else because it's all they
know about. It probably depends, at least partially, on where you
live. Where we live handmade does not equal worthless women's work,
and in many of our acquaintances' homes you can see the handthrown
pottery and the handwoven rugs.
The thing is, for me at least, is that these things are nonessential.
Of course, they beautify our lives and give us many pleasurable
moments, but they are, for the most part, not things that I must have
on an everyday basis to survive. (I know a bunch of you will say that
you must have it to survive, and I know what you mean, but YOU know
what I mean!!) Mary Monica said in Unraveled Sleeve that when Betsy
looked around at the stitch-in she saw a cross section of society,
except that they all had money. Poor people don't have hobbies that
require large budgets. They might stitch, but I doubt that they are
buying silks.
I know that my stitching is worth more than the insurance agent - and
other various uninformed people who shall remain nameless! - think it
is, but I also know that my DGM's needlework is worth more than most
people thought it was, too. That's why I inherited most of it!!
I hope this doesn't turn into another war. I'm outta here! Paula B.
Myna
> The items I'm giving away as gifts will come with the condition that
> when the recipients pass on, the stitched pieces come directly back to
> me - no questions asked, and in (hopefully) pristine condition. They
> will be packaged with care, and handled with care and I don't care what
> other family member says they want it, it wasn't stitched for them so
> they can't have it. It sounds like I'm being horribly callous, but
> you'd have to understand the rest of the family members to know that if
> I don't lay down the "ground rules" they'll either fight like rabid
> hounds over the piece, or pitch it.
>
> --
> Jen Persinger
> vel...@rootaction.net
Jen,
I understand. I have family members that don't understand why I would waste
my time stitching something when it could be bought for 1/2 the price. My
nightmare would be they would get their hands on it, and sell it at a yard
sale for $1.00
It would be nice if the next person to get the "used" piece would cherish it
as much as the original person (hopefully) did!
Myna
--
WIPS:
Jennifer Gilligan's-May
MLI's-Celtic Spring
KDLark
>looked around at the stitch-in she saw a cross section of society,
>except that they all had money.
>Poor people don't have hobbies that
>require large budgets. They might stitch, but I doubt that they are
>buying silks.
I think the point Mary Monica was making was that "poor" stitchers don't go to
stitching retreats. It's true that people with less money don't buy silks, but
from my experience of working at what they call a "low SES" (i.e., poor)
school, they do stitch and knit and create things...some really nice things,
and some really tacky things. I worked with an assistant who had little money,
but she made beautiful quilts. It doesn't take the most expensive linen and
silk thread to create something wonderful in cross-stitch, and that's one of
the things I like about it.
Framing it is a whole other story...
Katrina L.
Karen C - California
>
This is why I started working on 22-count!
I'd walk into LNS with my calculator, and figure out what count fabric I needed
in order to have the picture fit either a 5x7 or 8x10 standard frame. You can
pick up fairly nice ones inexpensively at Target, Michael's or WalMart.
I paid over $100 to frame "Sweet 16" because the pink fabric I wanted wasn't in
stock in a count that would let it fit a standard frame (IIRC, the finished
size was 11x19). OTOH, I'll be framing "Noah's Ark" for about $12, because
that will fit in an 11x14 standard size.
And thank you for nagging me that I need to finish my book about ways to finish
needlework without framing it.
PaulaB
Agreed...I started stitching because it was relatively inexpensive.
But it is possible to spend large amounts of money on it, as we all
know. LIS, they might stitch, but I doubt they are buying silks. I
stitched with DGM's Coats floss for nearly four years before I started
"splurging" for DMC. I stitched with hoops for another two or three
years before I bought my first scoll frame, and it was about six more
before I bought better ones. So I know!!! But you're right. People
without much money can make beautiful things, but does it happen as
often? There is no way to know. (And we both know that people with
lots of money can make some prettty awful things! <VBEG> And pay too
much for gaudy, overdone framing!) Thanks for the additional slant on
my rant! (Hey, that rhymes.) Paula B.
Velvet
>
> To stop the piece from getting pitched (which is hard to control during the
> hectic days following a death), you could have an "equivalent" put into the
> will, such as "Velvet gets the Angel of Mercy back or $10,000 from the estate".
> Since that will hit em in the wallet, even the most greedy will likely comply.
> I know I have been harping on wills in this thread but that is the *only* way to
> guarantee who gets what. Otherwise you might have to go to court and rely on
> family backing you up. And when there is as much animosity as folks here have
> indicated, the old "I lost it" or "It was thrown out" excuse could be used.
> That is why the equivalent cost was mentioned. You all might want to contact
> your own lawyers to find out what is binding and what is not. I don't know if
> the plate would be enough or not (though it seems to me that it would).
And all this is hinging on whether or not they have a will; and I don't
think they do. GMIL *might* have one, but there really isn't much of an
"estate" ... sad to say, but DH & I are the best off in both our
families, aside from my 2 surviving grandparents. Heck, I grew up in
better conditions than DH did, and my dad was supporting a family of 5
on anywhere from 28k-33k/yr in California. I may bring the question up
to some friends of mine, who I know have an estate lawyer, and see
what's suggested. But without a will, there's little we can do other
than hope.
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Velvet
>
> >Framing it is a whole other story...
> >
>
> This is why I started working on 22-count!
>
> I'd walk into LNS with my calculator, and figure out what count fabric I needed
> in order to have the picture fit either a 5x7 or 8x10 standard frame. You can
> pick up fairly nice ones inexpensively at Target, Michael's or WalMart.
>
> I paid over $100 to frame "Sweet 16" because the pink fabric I wanted wasn't in
> stock in a count that would let it fit a standard frame (IIRC, the finished
> size was 11x19). OTOH, I'll be framing "Noah's Ark" for about $12, because
> that will fit in an 11x14 standard size.
DH & I have finished & framed the 2 pieces I've finished stitching ...
16x20 frames, and cost us about $50 (Middy was a little less to frame,
but that's because we didn't have glass on her, since she'll be a
display piece for a bit). The biggest costs: The frame itself ($22) &
the spacers ($13). Mind you, we don't have any sort of fancy mats on
them ... and frankly, I don't think they're needed on the pieces I've
done ... so that cuts down on cost, but being able to do it yourself is
so much easier on the pocket book. *lol* It costs less to frame the
piece than it does to gather materials and stitch them!
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Jill
what we did when my grandmother passed away was have the family gather
at the farm one day. With all of them sitting there, they were able
to inventory the items in question and determine who gave what, and
those items went back to the giver. I know my Mom gave Grandma a
beautiful stained glass piece, and though I'm sure others would have
liked it, it came back to us because they all remembered Mom gave it.
So maybe if you could gather enough of the family at the time you
could all act as checks and balances on each other? Making relatives
aware that you gave it, and you are "the Needleworker," helps this,
and I agree with the will provision--if you think it will come to
that, doesn't hurt to be sure.
hth,
-Jill
Cynthia
search on "free legal documents wills" and came up with a couple of sites right
off the bat that have free templates to use:
http://www.freelegalforms.net/ http://www.delafe.com/form/indxfrme.htm. A
simple piece of paper that says "I want Velvet to have this picture when I die"
and signed by her and two witnesses is enough (but I am not a lawyer so
double-check). In my mom's case, she and her brother and sister fought over
every single piece in the house. The house had been sold and they had a limited
amount of time to clean it out. Because of the fighting, they ran out of time
and *boxes* of antiques were sent to the landfill. They couldn't even agree to
put them in one of their garages to sort out later. Mom and her siblings barely
spoke for 10 years. As far as I was told, they didn't really get it settled
until they came to see Mom when she was in the hospital dying. And all this
because her parents didn't have will. Even you only have *one* item that you
want to see go to a particular person, you need to write it down.
Cynthia (now I promise to quit harping on wills)
"Velvet" <vel...@rootaction.net> wrote in message > And all this is hinging on
Myna
"victoria" <ani...@animaux.net0> wrote in message .
>
> But the days of making Christmas presents or any gifts,
unsolicited...well,
> those days are SO over.
>
> V
I hear that! I've decided that (for the most part) these next few years I'm
going to cover my walls with my needlework projects I would like to do for
me. I might do a few bookmarks here and there, but for the most part I
won't stitch for anyone else. Some guy that I know gave me a picture of a
chinese tiger and asked that I "whip" it up for him. I told him there was a
fee and he said, How's $25. Some people really don't know anything about
needlework, and obviously he was one of them :-)
Myna--
Cheryl L. Perkins
: I don't think anybody in my family is that mercenary or nasty, but
We considered this, but when it came down to it, that wasn't the way it
happened. If it is in a will, you have a legal right to the object, as you
do if you can prove you lent it out on indefinite loan.
I think that unless you can and want to arrange a loan, or to have it
willed back to you, you are far better off either keeping the item, or
giving it away without any thought of getting it back.
Family disputes can be so nasty, even when founded in genuine
misunderstandings.
Cheryl
--
Cheryl Perkins
cper...@stemnet.nf.ca
Amy B.
wrote:
>So, instead of having great expectations that people love my stitching, I just
>stitch for me. If someone ever came in here and just LOVED something and wanted
>it to hang on their wall, it's theirs. I can always stitch another.
This is why I usually keep everything - I know that I love and
appreciate them a lot more than other people, since I'm the one that
did all the work. :-)
I think the secret is to know who will appreciate the gift and to give
it *totally*. If it's something that you're going to want back
eventually, I would say keep it for yourself, because then it's not
really a gift you're giving from your heart. I would hate to have
someone give me a gift and then say, "OK, now, you have to do
so-and-so with it after a certain time." It seems rather petty to me.
I mean, are you giving the gift to me or not? If you want something
done with it, keep it yourself and do it yourself.
Amy
s.e.l
I was actually thinking about that last night, and it does seem quite low to
estimate only 200 hours of time. I did do the bugs and butterflies over
one - I recall one butterfly taking me 3 days to do over a weekend, which as
I recall was working quite a bit of the entire day each day. But my oh my
those butterflies are gorgeous ! Wish my LNS would get their Crossed Wing
Silks in stock so I could do one of them in silk :)
In a gallery ? I shudder to think. I believe there was discussion on the
cost of purchasing Flower Power and it was over $2000 U.S. for the model in
one case.
For me it's priceless. Can't wait to pick it up next week from the framers
:) :) :)
Shannon
姣 My mind works like lightning -- one brilliant flash and it's gone ! 姣
29/f, civil engineer, Toronto, ON, Canada
WIP: Angel of Love (MLI); Summer Sampler (MLI); Baby sampler; Hearts sampler
(Charland); Golfers (Lynne Nicoletti); Snoopy (kit)
Di Messina
needlework. Pricing would be similar to an original oil painting or
watercolor by a known artist. It's the same kind of thing. We are artists
and this is our art! Think about this: how much do you suppose Thomas
Kincaid (I use him because most people know who he is) gets for an original
piece??
Di
Mike & June Huber <Hub...@swbell.net> wrote in message
news:3B4B7F59...@swbell.net...
Carol Sylvester
You know Karen, you've opened my eyes here. I never would have thought about
changing the count of the fabric to fit a standard frame.
I frame a lot of little pieces in standard frames, if I can find one that
looks good and is the right size, but it never occured to me to change the
size of my larger pieces to make them fit.
Man, I gotta get out more. Thanks, Karen!!!!
Carol Sylvester
carol.s...@sopheon.com
"Karen C - California" <kmc...@aol.com.LuvXS> wrote in message > This is why
Carol Sylvester
away that you would want back upon the death of the recipient?
I have stitched a piece for my mother that I would want back, but that's
probably the only one at the moment. I have a couple of pieces I'm planning
on stitching for my brothers that I would probably want returned as well.
Their wedding samplers I would ask that they pass on to their children.
I think for the most part I would not ask that something be returned to me,
unless it would remind me of my relationship with that person.
On a related note, what piece have you given away that you wish you could
ask to be returned? I made a wedding sampler for a cousin, who was divorced
a few years later. I've always wanted to ask her what became of my sampler,
and if I could have it back, but don't have the nerve!
Carol Sylvester
carol.s...@sopheon.com
"KDLark" <kdl...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010710193816...@ng-fe1.aol.com...
Anne Tuchscherer
in the past few months. He sold some of his originals when he was first
starting out, but he still has most of his paintings. His stuff is only sold as
prints now. His plan is to have a gallery/museum of his works. Apparently when
any of the originals that were sold come up for sale/auction your main
competition is Thomas Kincade. He is doing everything he can to get all the
originals back.
Anne (in Ellicott City, MD)
Sally
csylv...@teltech.com wrote on 7/11/01 8:48 AM:
> Well, here's a good topic for discussion--what needlework have you given
> away that you would want back upon the death of the recipient?
>
> I have stitched a piece for my mother that I would want back, but that's
> probably the only one at the moment. I have a couple of pieces I'm planning
> on stitching for my brothers that I would probably want returned as well.
> Their wedding samplers I would ask that they pass on to their children.
>
> I think for the most part I would not ask that something be returned to me,
> unless it would remind me of my relationship with that person.
>
> On a related note, what piece have you given away that you wish you could
> ask to be returned? I made a wedding sampler for a cousin, who was divorced
> a few years later. I've always wanted to ask her what became of my sampler,
> and if I could have it back, but don't have the nerve!
>
> Carol Sylvester
Well, Carol, I was thinking about this on the way to work this morning.
For me, I'm thinking I am most comfortable with getting a brass plate
engraved for the backside of the work.
At the moment, the best wording that I can come up with would be something
like this:
********************
Made with love for my family,
completed July 2001,
as a token of love for generations to come.
This family heirloom is the property of
Alice K Stitcher
and had been on loan to:
Debbie Recipient since July 2001
<save some empty space for next hosts>
**********************
This is *very* rough... but you get the idea.
Maybe there could be a less permanent type of holder in the back that could
contain a letter explaining how you would like/expect to see this piece go
on to the next recipient.
The only pieces I have in mind for this kind of plaque would be the Lords
Supper and the Nativity ... classic kind of stuff with timeless appeal.
JMO.
Sally
dmes...@uswest.net wrote on 7/11/01 8:30 AM:
> That's my idea. Some day I'd like to open an art gallery selling
> needlework. Pricing would be similar to an original oil painting or
> watercolor by a known artist. It's the same kind of thing. We are artists
> and this is our art! Think about this: how much do you suppose Thomas
> Kincaid (I use him because most people know who he is) gets for an original
> piece??
>
> Di
Hiya Di...
<pulling on my flameproof undies>
I just have to jump in and disagree here (unless I'm misunderstanding you
somehow). Those of us that take a chart, buy all the necessary components
(fabric, fibers and beads) and then go about doing this "kit" are *not*
artists. No way, no how.
I didn't see anything in your post that led me to believe that if you opened
a gallery, it would be for original works designed and built by the
designer. I assumed you to mean any needlework.. which almost always means
designs purchased and stitched by people like us.
We may be superb craftsmen/craftswomen, and the finished product is
absolutely glorious.. but the resulting finished product is only glorious
because an "artist" created the *design*.. we merely put it together. There
wouldn't be a great finished product if it weren't for the "artist" that put
it all together.
Now, if you're talking about original works, I apologize for interpreting
you wrong.
Also.. there is a another supply/demand thing going on here.. there are many
more people wanting a Kincaid than there will be for any needlework. This
is partly due to the fact that a painting can be reproduced and shown all
over the planet.. which is like marketing exposure.. which drives up the
price of the original. Needlework doesn't enjoy that same exposure....
unless you're talking about the designer selling her "original"... and even
then, there just isn't the same market for the item (IMHO)
I'm sincerely not trying to start a war here... this is my sincere opinion
on this. I'm happy to discuss it, but I really don't want this to get
blown up into a flame war.
Sally
Sally
akmo...@icok.net wrote on 7/11/01 6:46 AM:
> I would hate to have
> someone give me a gift and then say, "OK, now, you have to do
> so-and-so with it after a certain time." It seems rather petty to me.
> I mean, are you giving the gift to me or not? If you want something
> done with it, keep it yourself and do it yourself.
>
> Amy
Hiya Amy....
I gotta disagree with you here... it depends on the situation.
I have kids that are now 14 and 20.. and not exactly in positions to
appreciate a gift like "The Nativity" or "The Lords Supper". But I do have
an aunt that would go into tears over getting such a gift. (I gave her a
handknit sweater one year for Christmas, and that gift got more attention
than all the other thousands of dollars worth of gifts opened that night..
it was a great moment for me to do something like that for her that she
appreciated so much).
I love my cousins.. but in the case of these two works, I really want them
to make their way back to my kids.... eventually. And... I think they will
mean even more to my kids knowing that they were at this particular Aunt's
home for many years.. she is like a mom to me.. and she has been very good
to my kids as well. She's *very* special to us.
My own mother died when I was 14. I still have one afghan she made before
she died. It means a lot to me. I'd like to think my kids would someday
feel the same way.
So... I don't feel bad about wanting these to make it back to my kids.. and
I don't think it's petty at all. These type of items are not just "gifts"
but heirlooms. And.. heirlooms are becoming harder to come by <G>.
I work very hard, and I have very little time to be making such big
projects... they take me *forever* to finish. Which makes them even more
valuable to me.. and I think my aunt and kids feel the same way.
Now... if we were talking about a needle roll that took 5 hours to make...
<G>.....
Sally
Velvet
It does help that now we can afford (well, sort of afford, in a pinch)
to fly out should something like that happen, to be certain. Before
this year, everything's been really tight, but things are finally
looking up (waaaaay up) for us, so that'll be helpful. I know that
despite the fact that my grandmother had a will, she still went through
when she was supposed to be resting, and labeled as much as she could
(mostly her many many MANY drawers & chests of jewelery - most of it
costume jewelery, some of it not) as to who got what. I know there were
pieces GM labled for me that my Mom is holding on to for when Lex gets
older, to pass on to her, but I'm digressing. Like I said, if we have
to, we will go out there to get them back. I really hope it won't come
to that, but we'll see.
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Velvet
>
> You don't have to have a large estate to have a will. I just did a google
> search on "free legal documents wills" and came up with a couple of sites right
> off the bat that have free templates to use:
> http://www.freelegalforms.net/ http://www.delafe.com/form/indxfrme.htm. A
> simple piece of paper that says "I want Velvet to have this picture when I die"
> and signed by her and two witnesses is enough (but I am not a lawyer so
> double-check). In my mom's case, she and her brother and sister fought over
> every single piece in the house. The house had been sold and they had a limited
> amount of time to clean it out. Because of the fighting, they ran out of time
> and *boxes* of antiques were sent to the landfill. They couldn't even agree to
> put them in one of their garages to sort out later. Mom and her siblings barely
> spoke for 10 years. As far as I was told, they didn't really get it settled
> until they came to see Mom when she was in the hospital dying. And all this
> because her parents didn't have will. Even you only have *one* item that you
> want to see go to a particular person, you need to write it down.
DH & I will end up paying a lawyer to have a will done up, simply
because of our Daughter. We want to have the legal guardians made clear
as possible with something that can't be broken. Thank you for the
sites, though ... we've actually been looking for something like this
for my MIL (who has things she would rather DH have then BIL), but I
don't know if GMIL has anything like that done up or not.
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Dianne Lewandowski
Chicago is an artist. She has artisans who execute the needlework
portions of her work. She watches over them every step of the way.
Granted, they are master needleworkers. But it is Chicago's art that
sells for thousands.
This should not mean, however, that we mere mortals who master needle
and thread should not get a fair price for our work. We couldn't
command the same as a genious like Chicago, or the exquisite work of
Lula Chang (I'd call her a genious, but others more knowledgeable might
disagree <big grin>), and let us not forget Marilyn Leavitt-Imbloom - no
small potatoes in this market. However, we shouldn't devalue our
abilities. Time and materials are precious commodities. Our skill
level makes a difference in the ultimate project.
Dianne
Cheryl L. Perkins
: Well, here's a good topic for discussion--what needlework have you given
: away that you would want back upon the death of the recipient?
: I have stitched a piece for my mother that I would want back, but that's
: probably the only one at the moment. I have a couple of pieces I'm planning
: on stitching for my brothers that I would probably want returned as well.
: Their wedding samplers I would ask that they pass on to their children.
: I think for the most part I would not ask that something be returned to me,
: unless it would remind me of my relationship with that person.
: On a related note, what piece have you given away that you wish you could
: ask to be returned? I made a wedding sampler for a cousin, who was divorced
: a few years later. I've always wanted to ask her what became of my sampler,
: and if I could have it back, but don't have the nerve!
: Carol Sylvester
: carol.s...@sopheon.com
I don't make the request - but my mother and aunts saw to it that I got
back two needlepoint cushions I made for my grandmother. One was, if not
my first project, very close to it - acrylic yarn and yellow flowers. The
other was done in proper tapestry yarn, with her favourite flowers,
pansies, and I am glad to have it.
Claudia Brant
closet and I never saw or heard of it again.
I'd also made a picture for an elderly friend who died about a year ago. I
didn't have the nerve to ask her daughter for it - so I hope it went to a
good person who could really appreciate the work and love that went into the
project.
Claudia
"Cheryl L. Perkins" <cper...@stemnet.nf.ca> wrote in message
news:9ii2u3$rqj$2...@coranto.ucs.mun.ca...
PaulaB
> I think the secret is to know who will appreciate the gift and to give
> it *totally*. If it's something that you're going to want back
> eventually, I would say keep it for yourself, because then it's not
> really a gift you're giving from your heart. I would hate to have
> someone give me a gift and then say, "OK, now, you have to do
> so-and-so with it after a certain time." It seems rather petty to me.
> I mean, are you giving the gift to me or not? If you want something
> done with it, keep it yourself and do it yourself.
>
> Amy
Couldn't have said it better myself! Paula B.
Amy B.
>> I would hate to have
>> someone give me a gift and then say, "OK, now, you have to do
>> so-and-so with it after a certain time." It seems rather petty to me.
>> I mean, are you giving the gift to me or not? If you want something
>> done with it, keep it yourself and do it yourself.
>I gotta disagree with you here... it depends on the situation.
>
>I have kids that are now 14 and 20.. and not exactly in positions to
>appreciate a gift like "The Nativity" or "The Lords Supper". But I do have
>an aunt that would go into tears over getting such a gift. (I gave her a
<small snippage>
>I love my cousins.. but in the case of these two works, I really want them
>to make their way back to my kids.... eventually. And... I think they will
>mean even more to my kids knowing that they were at this particular Aunt's
>home for many years.. she is like a mom to me.. and she has been very good
>to my kids as well. She's *very* special to us.
Then make them for the kids, too. Once you give a gift to someone, I
don't think it's fair to expect to get it back, or to get it back for
your children. What if your aunt, having received the needlework as a
gift, then *wants* to give it to her children, your cousins? Is that
wrong?
I can only think of one situation in which it would be different:
heirlooms. Say you have a ring that's been passed down to you from
your great-grandmother, your grandmother, your mother, then you. If
you gave it to your daughter saying, "when you have a daughter, give
this to her," I don't have a problem with that. But for me to stitch
a picture, give it to someone, and say, "oh, by the way, when you die,
I want this back?" I don't think I could do that in good conscience.
Amy
PaulaB
> Well, here's a good topic for discussion--what needlework have you given
> away that you would want back upon the death of the recipient?
>
>
Nice question, Carol! I tend to give things with a pretty loose hand
- that is, once they're gone, they're gone. I have been known to
borrow things back for a show, but I don't want the actual piece back
in most cases. (I have gotten a few, but it would've been OK if I
hadn't for the most part.) One exception would be the little picture I
stitched for VDFIL for Christmas of 1997. It is a picture of a man
and a boy standing in a mountain stream fishing, with mountains in the
background. He had been diagnosed with cancer right before Christmas
of 1996, but they didn't tell anyone until Jan. 1997 so they didn't
spoil everyone else's holiday. I had said for years that I was going
to stitch this picture for him, but the light went on one day in the
fall of 1997 when I looked at DH and said,"I have to stitch this NOW."
Sure enough, 1997 turned out to be FIL's last Christmas. Even DMIL,
who once told me to my face that she didn't want any more stitched
gifts, got teary when he opened it. My DS, who the recipient of all
Grandpa's fishing wisdom, tied a couple flies and they were then glued
to the oval matting under the glass. I would like for DS to have it
someday, but I can understand why DMIL wants the house to stay pretty
much the same. For those of you who were at Rockome this year, it was
in Lifelike Portrayals (I know Helen saw it.) MIL actually asked me
to take it to the show this year - I was quite surprised! The main
reason I would like DS to have it, though, is because his Grandpa was
such a wonderful man in many, many ways, and we miss him every day.
He spent wonderful time with his grandkids and they all adored him.
<sniff> Paula B.
Dutchie
they were not very close to me anyway. I have wondered what happened to
them. I did the samplers because I loved to stitch them, and I don't think
either couple appreciated them. The first one I did was for a woman I
worked for. She said to me later "you only stitched the names and date,
right? The rest was already done, right?" Wrong. Big mistake in putting
so much time into an unappreciated gift.
On the other hand, I've done pieces for people who have been overwhelmed
when they received them. That makes me feel good, but I still stich them
for very selfish reasons - I'm an addict!
Dutchie
PaulaB
>
> > We may be superb craftsmen/craftswomen, and the finished product is
> absolutely glorious.. but the resulting finished product is only glorious
> because an "artist" created the *design*.. we merely put it together. There
> wouldn't be a great finished product if it weren't for the "artist" that put
> it all together.
>
> Now, if you're talking about original works, I apologize for interpreting
> you wrong.
>
I have to agree with Sally here. I am not an artist, by any stretch
of the imagination, no matter what the writer at the local paper said
about me in the article after a show!!
How many times have I seen beautiful stitching on a (IMHO)
less-than-deserving design, (and possibly framed shabbily), or, what
is more common (IMHO), careless and sloppy stitching on a beautiful
design (and possibly over-framed)??? Happens all the time, and I
think it is because people are not artists, so they don't recognize
good design, or are not technically able to execute the design the
artist envisioned. I'm guilty, too, I'm sure, of stitching things
that are not *art*. That's OK sometimes - if everything on my walls
were art, my house would look like an art gallery, and that's not what
I want my house to look like. It is OK for something to be a craft -
it can still be beautiful and useful and unique. I am not an artist,
but I hope I can be called a craftsperson.
Just my .02 again!! Paula B. (Donning asbestos underwear)
Velvet
>
> I can only think of one situation in which it would be different:
> heirlooms. Say you have a ring that's been passed down to you from
> your great-grandmother, your grandmother, your mother, then you. If
> you gave it to your daughter saying, "when you have a daughter, give
> this to her," I don't have a problem with that. But for me to stitch
> a picture, give it to someone, and say, "oh, by the way, when you die,
> I want this back?" I don't think I could do that in good conscience.
Not intending to fan flames or argue ... that's not the tone this is
meant to be read in ... I just want to make that clear before proceding
(cus I know how these things can be skewed over the 'net). I'm
conversing in a calm rational tone, and just asking a question ...
So you're saying that if you gave something you put hundreds and
hundreds of hours of work into to your Grandmother, you'd be perfectly
fine if your grandfather just up and threw it away after she died? Or
if the Aunt & Uncle who just about hate you, and almost refuse to
acknowledge your existance just up and take it because they want it, NOT
because your grandmother wanted to give it to them? What about if you
saw that piece you put those hundreds of hours into sold at a garage
sale for $10 by said Aunt & Uncle?
Every piece for me has memories attached to it - I remember what was
going on and where I was when I stitched (and at times, when I stitched
certain parts of it). I'm stitching the piece for my MIL because she
asked me to stitch something for her (and I took her through my 2
favorite designer's web sites so she could pick her pattern), and she
never asks for much; the piece for my GMIL was my own decision (all she
ever asked for was a stitched bookmark, which I happily did for her).
Both will be stitched with them specifically in mind. Both will be
labors of love. And it makes me furious to think that the pieces would
be gobbled up by people who could care less about the owner of the
piece, let alone the person who stitched it, or flat out thrown away as
"junk." I've already planned on restitching both pieces for myself.
That wasn't the issue. It was more a desire to make sure the pieces
will be passed on to people who would appreciate them; sadly in both
cases, there aren't many (if any) who'd fit the bill. :\
But again, as I think was originally stated, every situation is
different. You'd have to understand these people to understand better
the position I'm in, and the situation.
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Sally
akmo...@icok.net wrote on 7/11/01 2:19 PM:
You're kidding, right?!?!?
You're crazy if you think it's even possible for me to make 2 of each of
these... I'm guessing that "The Nativity" is going to be about a 2,000 hour
project!
Make two? No problem. LOL
To answer your question... yes.. if this was created with the intent of it
being a family heirloom (which it is.. otherwise I wouldn't be beating
myself up to even do this piece! <G>), there is nothing wrong with it going
to my side of the family (down to my children). It's no different than the
ring example you give, except the first recipient is "up" one generation
instead of going from me directly to my daughter or son.
I fail to see how you can't see something like this as being an heirloom
that deserves to be treated in the same way as some ring that was bought a
generation or two ago. "The Nativity" is probably more expensive to do and
has much more heart put into it than the average ring from two generations
ago. JMO, of course.
Not angry here... we just obviously disagree.
Sally
Amy B.
wrote:
> Not intending to fan flames or argue ... that's not the tone this is
>meant to be read in ... I just want to make that clear before proceding
>(cus I know how these things can be skewed over the 'net). I'm
>conversing in a calm rational tone, and just asking a question ...
I'm not flaming either, and I probably should have disclaimed like you
just did, but it's how I feel too, so I'm just going to use yours. :)
> So you're saying that if you gave something you put hundreds and
>hundreds of hours of work into to your Grandmother, you'd be perfectly
>fine if your grandfather just up and threw it away after she died? Or
>if the Aunt & Uncle who just about hate you, and almost refuse to
>acknowledge your existance just up and take it because they want it, NOT
>because your grandmother wanted to give it to them? What about if you
>saw that piece you put those hundreds of hours into sold at a garage
>sale for $10 by said Aunt & Uncle?
No, I'd be upset in all those cases - but it's not up to me. My
grandmother and grandfather have lots and lots of *things* I would
like to have, but they're just *things* - it won't make my grandmother
and grandfather any less dead for me to have the great clock that's
been on their mantle since 1948. There are some ties in my family
that are a little strained, and I forsee that kind of squabbling when
they die, from at least one aunt anyway, but quite frankly, life is
just too short.
I think really where we disagree is the "something you put hundreds
and hundreds of hours of work into" part. If I put hundreds and
hundreds of hours of work into something I give someone, the hours
mean a lot to *me*, but I don't necessarily expect them to mean a
tinker's darn to anyone else. And I really don't have any
expectations pinned on a present I give someone else - I'm not saying
I'd be happy if I stitched something for someone and then saw it
languishing in their hall closet, but I wouldn't demand that they put
it on the wall or give it back to me, either.
Amy
Amy B.
>You're kidding, right?!?!?
>
>You're crazy if you think it's even possible for me to make 2 of each of
>these... I'm guessing that "The Nativity" is going to be about a 2,000 hour
>project!
>
>Make two? No problem. LOL
<sigh> Did I *know* which Nativity scene you were talking about? No.
>To answer your question... yes.. if this was created with the intent of it
>being a family heirloom (which it is.. otherwise I wouldn't be beating
>myself up to even do this piece! <G>), there is nothing wrong with it going
>to my side of the family (down to my children). It's no different than the
>ring example you give, except the first recipient is "up" one generation
>instead of going from me directly to my daughter or son.
That's fine, then, it's not really a gift. It's not like, "Happy
Birthday!" It's more like, "Look, I've made a family heirloom, and
you are the first keeper of it!"
>I fail to see how you can't see something like this as being an heirloom
>that deserves to be treated in the same way as some ring that was bought a
>generation or two ago. "The Nativity" is probably more expensive to do and
>has much more heart put into it than the average ring from two generations
>ago. JMO, of course.
Again, don't automatically assume I knew which Nativity scene you were
talking about. I assume from your (somewhat heated) response that
you're working on the Marbek Nativity scene? Did I *know* that?
Maybe you were just stitching a small Precious Moments nativity scene
for you loved one, something 5x7.
Heirloom!=Gift in my mind. Heirloom=Bequest. Gift=I was thinking
about you and wanted you to have this and you can do whatever you want
with it. Gift=you are the final recipient of this in my mind.
Heirloom=you are just the caretaker of this for a short time.
Amy
Sally
akmo...@icok.net wrote on 7/11/01 4:30 PM:
Whoa... I think I said I wasn't upset.. that we just differed in opinion
here. No hard feelings.. and it wasn't a heated response.
Also.. I've dodged the "gift" word as much as possible during this thread..
so if I said it, I'm sorry.
Also.. I did say "The Nativity" which means "****The Nativity****" <G>...
which is one of the mothers-of-all-projects that gets talked about on here.
So sorry if you didn't know that was what I was referring to.
So sorry if I misled you.... <G>... I really thought you knew I was talking
about some pretty good sized items here.
No hard feelin's .
And you know something... this thread brought up the perfect response... you
are right on with " Look, I've made a family heirloom, and you are the first
keeper of it!"
Perfect words. Thanks for saying them.
Sally
Amy B.
>Whoa... I think I said I wasn't upset.. that we just differed in opinion
>here. No hard feelings.. and it wasn't a heated response.
Well, maybe just lukewarm. :-)
>Also.. I've dodged the "gift" word as much as possible during this thread..
>so if I said it, I'm sorry.
>So sorry if I misled you.... <G>... I really thought you knew I was talking
>about some pretty good sized items here.
Well, I usually catch references to "The Nativity," but this one
passed under my radar.
>No hard feelin's .
Oh, definitely not!
>And you know something... this thread brought up the perfect response... you
>are right on with " Look, I've made a family heirloom, and you are the first
>keeper of it!"
>
>Perfect words. Thanks for saying them.
I think we were just coming at it from slightly different angles - we
didn't really disagree in the first place, there just weren't any
"stipulations." You know, like in court, when the opposing attorneys
stipulate to something ahead of time and then it doesn't need to be
questioned or cross-examined. :-)
Amy
Cross Stitch
JanM/Texas
Pat Porter
attached.
My father was one who always gave expecting strings attached - in his case
it was always to demonstrate his "generosity" and somehow he made sure that
everyone he knew how generous he had been. I thought it was just me who
thought this way, but as the children got older, they all said "Mum, I wish
Grandad didn`t give me anything really - you have to be eternally grateful,
don`t you?".
I always had people coming to me and saying "What a kind father you have,
giving you -- so-and-so. This meant that he`s gone out of his way to tell
people of his gift - if it was a close friend or two, or a relative, it
wouldn`t have been so odd, but it was just about everyone he knew, it
seemed!
If I give someone something, I no longer feel I have ANY claim on it or what
happens to it. I may not like or approve of what happens to it, but
logically, since it is no longer mine, there is nothing I can say or do
about it without looking mean.
I remember him giving some money to a lady who was newly widowed - now if I
had been giving it, I`d have just put it in an envelope and put it through
her letterbox. Dad gave it to the family doctor (hers and ours)to give to
her! Just so he`d look good with the doctor - LOL!
Pat P.
Velvet <vel...@rootaction.net> wrote in message
news:3B4CC8EA...@rootaction.net...
Mo B
> On a related note, what piece have you given away that you wish you could
> ask to be returned? I made a wedding sampler for a cousin, who was divorced
> a few years later. I've always wanted to ask her what became of my sampler,
> and if I could have it back, but don't have the nerve!
>
> Carol Sylvester
>
Great thread Carol! My pick would be the medicine wheel I did for my not so
dear ex boyfriend. (AKA the jerk) He asked for it for his birthday and I
sititched it and had it framed. It was lovely and he seemed to like it.
Well he is no longer in my life. (Good!!) Unfortunately the XS is either with
him or, more likely, he destroyed it. Years later my now husband asked me to
make him the same pattern. I started it but could never get into it. It just
never seemed right to me to make the same thing for the jerk and my hubby. A
friend took over the stitching for me, but after getting a ways into the piece
we realized she and I went opposite ways with our x's. She started to frog the
stitching she did, but she has since moved away and my pattern and work is
still with her. :( I guess my hubby isn't destined to have that medicine
wheel.
--
Maureen in CNY
X/USA/H+(Will)/1Y5(Sam)/-/3C,1D/1B/Angels Bookmark, Elemental Cosmos/
X/28L/D/:-D~/Q,O/M/B/b/R~/S/K/E/-/G/Wo/-/-/Matthew McC, Liam Neeson/John
Grisham/wintogreen lifesavers, pizza
Sally
akmo...@icok.net wrote on 7/11/01 5:01 PM:
>
> I think we were just coming at it from slightly different angles - we
> didn't really disagree in the first place, there just weren't any
> "stipulations." You know, like in court, when the opposing attorneys
> stipulate to something ahead of time and then it doesn't need to be
> questioned or cross-examined. :-)
>
> Amy
Oh yeah... I know all about those stipulations... <BG>.... but (in my
experience) it's usually just the opposing attorneys trying to make an
argument out of nothing (until they finally stipulate) so they can ring up
the maximum amount of fees for all their efforts.
Sally
Mike & June Huber
of the fine hand-made quilts like those produced in Amish communities.
This is a form of needlework that gained enough value in the eyes of
buyers to be worth a reasonable price. Sure, there are inexpensive
quilts available, but there is a visible difference in quality and there
are enough buyers who recognize this difference to create a market for
"high-end" quilts. I've also seen some good prices on hand-knitted and
hand-woven garments in various places. Wouldn't it be wonderful if such
markets existed for finely stitched pieces of cross-stitch, needlepoint,
samplers, etc.?
Perhaps there is a place for a gallery that specializes in all forms of
textile arts--quilts, weaving, knitting, and fine needlework. I'd love
to browse through a place like that! You could include beading as well.
There's a fairly good market for nice beaded jewelry, and it would help
draw in more customers to be educated on the value and artistry of all
forms of needlework.
June in Houston
Di Messina wrote:
>
> That's my idea. Some day I'd like to open an art gallery selling
> needlework. Pricing would be similar to an original oil painting or
> watercolor by a known artist. It's the same kind of thing. We are artists
> and this is our art! Think about this: how much do you suppose Thomas
> Kincaid (I use him because most people know who he is) gets for an original
> piece??
>
> Mike & June Huber <Hub...@swbell.net> wrote
Cynthia
room will be Southwestern decor and a medicine wheel would look great!
Cynthia
"Mo B" <sam...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
Cynthia
lamp. It was all white but the design had a bunch of Christmas presents around
the rim. Mom wanted me to paint it for her. I spent a week, painting that
lamp, working under a magnifying lamp to make sure it was "perfect". Had to
look all over town for the glass top, finally had to order it from a specialty
catalog. Mom loved the lamp and frequently commented on it. When Mom died, I
neglected to take the lamp with me when I went back home (after sitting by her
bedside for a week watching her die, I wasn't thinking very clearly). After a
month, when I remembered it, I asked my brother to send it to me. I found that
it had been sold at a garage sale for less than fifty cents, along with some
antiques like an original Singer model sewing machine that sold for $10. My
sister-in-law doesn't like "junk" and since they were living with my folks at
the time (Dad later sold the house to them), she just wanted it out of the
house. So it went (with all the depression glass and everything else that Mom
had collected over the years). And yes, 10 years later I still think about that
lamp, and it still ticks me off.
Cynthia
"Velvet" <vel...@rootaction.net> wrote in message .
<snipped>
> So you're saying that if you gave something you put hundreds and
> hundreds of hours of work into to your Grandmother, you'd be perfectly
> fine if your grandfather just up and threw it away after she died? Or
> if the Aunt & Uncle who just about hate you, and almost refuse to
> acknowledge your existance just up and take it because they want it, NOT
> because your grandmother wanted to give it to them? What about if you
> saw that piece you put those hundreds of hours into sold at a garage
> sale for $10 by said Aunt & Uncle?
> Jen Persinger
> vel...@rootaction.net
Mo B
> Could you please tell me the name of the pattern/designer, Maureen? My family
> room will be Southwestern decor and a medicine wheel would look great!
>
> Cynthia
Cynthia,
I wish I could remember! I don't have the pattern anymore and I can't find any of
the info on the kit right now. I'm so sorry. I did the pattern in 1990 or 91... a
long time ago anyway. LOL I'm not even sure where to begin to look. I tried
Hoffman and ebay, but no luck either place. I think I ordered it orginally from the
Stitchery. Maybe they would be able to look it up.
Cynthia
might have heard of it (good reason for another trip, like I need to have a
reason).
Cynthia
"Mo B" <sam...@rochester.rr.com> wrote in message
news:3B4D05F6...@rochester.rr.com...
Lollee Roberts
>>hundreds of hours of work into to your Grandmother, you'd be perfectly
>>fine if your grandfather just up and threw it away after she died? Or
>>if the Aunt & Uncle who just about hate you, and almost refuse to
>>acknowledge your existance just up and take it because they want it, NOT
>>because your grandmother wanted to give it to them? What about if you
>>saw that piece you put those hundreds of hours into sold at a garage
>>sale for $10 by said Aunt & Uncle?
>
>
>
>I know I would be pretty awe struck. I would stand around saying DAMN why'd
>they do that...DAMN. Damn. Damn them. Damn him...
>
>After an hour of that, I would realize that I am powerless over it and get on
>with it. I solved that now by stitching for me, myself and I. And it's
>really
>okay! As I said in another post, if someone came into our home and said they
>LOVE this or that, and it's something I stitched, I would take it off the
>wall
>and hand it to them. No questions asked.
>
>victoria
>
>
Well, I would probably have given them $15 dollars to keep it out of the garage
sale (or had a friend buy it for $10 at the garage sale), but if I heard about
it after the fact, I'd probably do just what Victoria would. Life is too short
to hold grudges. Learn the lesson and move on. Also keep just a smidge of pity
in your heart for people like your Aunt and Uncle and Grandfather. They have to
live with themselves everyday, you don't.
Lollee
Carolyn Potts
Yo Dutchie, you hit the needle in the eye. I do do things for others
because I like doing them, and then , usually, I want shed of them. It was
so gratifying when I did a sampler for a niece which my SIL liked so much he
wants me to do one for them( I can't find the chart.) My sister said that
when my niece and her husband received it he sat and inspected it,
appreciating each stitch. True or not, wasn't that nice to hear?
"Dutchie" <j...@hhome.com> wrote in message
news:WD337.126873$mG4.62...@news1.mntp1.il.home.com...
PaulaB
> Yes you`d be hurt, but a gift is a gift - which should mean no strings
> attached.
>
> My father was one who always gave expecting strings attached - in his case
> it was always to demonstrate his "generosity" and somehow he made sure that
> everyone he knew how generous he had been. I thought it was just me who
> thought this way, but as the children got older, they all said "Mum, I wish
> Grandad didn`t give me anything really - you have to be eternally grateful,
> don`t you?".
>
> I always had people coming to me and saying "What a kind father you have,
> giving you -- so-and-so. This meant that he`s gone out of his way to tell
> people of his gift - if it was a close friend or two, or a relative, it
> wouldn`t have been so odd, but it was just about everyone he knew, it
> seemed!
>
> If I give someone something, I no longer feel I have ANY claim on it or what
> happens to it. I may not like or approve of what happens to it, but
> logically, since it is no longer mine, there is nothing I can say or do
> about it without looking mean.
>
> I remember him giving some money to a lady who was newly widowed - now if I
> had been giving it, I`d have just put it in an envelope and put it through
> her letterbox. Dad gave it to the family doctor (hers and ours)to give to
> her! Just so he`d look good with the doctor - LOL!
>
> Pat P.
>
So he wasn't really giving, was he? Sounds to me like he was getting,
or trying to. I know exactly what you mean - I have family who do
that too, and when they start in I tend to just clam up. We (as a
family) are generous, I think, but I don't even want to get into the
one-upmanship with them. So, they must think we're really stingy
because we don't talk about it like they do. But I think I enjoy
giving just as much!
And LIS, when it's gone, it's gone.
Thinking about it, though, perhaps part of the reason I can say that
is because I am fortunate to have so much family stuff - needlework,
dishes, furniture, etc. - and not much of it is valuable (because none
of our families had money), but it is very special to us and we can
look around the house every day and enjoy it. If I didn't have quite
so much maybe I would be a little more possessive about it. Dunno. I
think the important thing is to remember your special family members
and be thankful for what they gave you, whether or not your cousin
Bertrand snatched the crystal pickle plate from under your nose. The
sentiment I feel for my stuff is directly related to the warm feelings
I have for the people it used to belong to, and nobody can take that
away.
Paula B.
Velvet
>
> Heirloom!=Gift in my mind. Heirloom=Bequest. Gift=I was thinking
> about you and wanted you to have this and you can do whatever you want
> with it. Gift=you are the final recipient of this in my mind.
> Heirloom=you are just the caretaker of this for a short time.
Hmm ... maybe that's where we're getting into the misunderstandings
here ... (althought I have to admit that I didn't think about this until
I read this post - I haven't been able to think clearly lately, doped up
on cold meds *lol* The joys of being mommy ... anyway) .... Actually, I
thought a little on it last night, when I thought of the other small
piece I'm making for friends of ours who got married. It's not a
sampler, just quick, cute, and a gift - I don't want it back. There's 3
things I've stitched and gifted out that I don' want back either. Of
course, there's also 2 Heirlooms I've created that I've also gifted - I
definitely don't want those back! They're to be passed on to the
recipients daughters, and so forth.
The 2 MLI pieces I'm going to be giving to MIL and GMIL will be
Heirloom quality work (I hope!), and I want to make sure they stay that
way - and stay in the family with people who will appreciate them, not
people who want them simply because "it's a religious theme and I'm a
minister ('AoMI') or "they're pretty," or "I want it, and that's all the
explaination you need," or "I _deserve_ it." Sadly, these are all
excuses that the Aunt & Uncle are likely to give for grabbing it up.
GFIL's only line would be "it's trash."
So I guess I am thinking of these more as Heirlooms, than I am gifts.
I have to say, I think I'm really liking the engraved plaque idea with
the "tons of extra space" for adding future recipients. I think this
whole thread has also given me a way to broach the subject with MIL and
GMIL when I present them with the pieces. Hopefully, of course, they'll
be caretakers for them for more than just a short time.
Thank you, Amy :) If for nothing else, than making me go "oh! Okay, I
can see what you're talking about now!")
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Amy B.
wrote:
>> Heirloom!=Gift in my mind. Heirloom=Bequest. Gift=I was thinking
>> about you and wanted you to have this and you can do whatever you want
>> with it. Gift=you are the final recipient of this in my mind.
>> Heirloom=you are just the caretaker of this for a short time.
> Thank you, Amy :) If for nothing else, than making me go "oh! Okay, I
>can see what you're talking about now!")
Well, as much as I hate math, sometimes you just have to put it in an
equation. :-D
Amy
Di Messina
I certainly won't flame you. You can have your opinion even if it's
different from mine. I have no idea if I'm actually right or not and may
never find out.
I guess I didn't explain well enough. I used Thomas Kincaid as an
example because most people know who he is.
I have been to a few 'hoity toidy' art galleries where they sell
original works of art. Most of the artists I had never heard of (neither
had the people I was with), but their pieces were selling for thousands of
dollars. There are people that are willing to pay these kinds of prices to
decorate their homes. I have seen some textile works in these galleries,
too (I thought some of them were hideous!) and I thought why not cross
stitch, needle point or counted canvas work?? If you can find the right
market, there are people willing to pay the prices that we would need to
sell our work at to be profitable.
As far as being artists or not, I though there was a discussion recently
here on just that subject. You only have to look as far as a badly stitched
MLI to realize there are some people that are good at this and some that are
not. The ones that are good are artists. If they are not, then Yo Yo Ma,
who is playing what someone else wrote, or Monet, who painted what someone
else (God or the gardener) created are not either. I could never paint like
Monet (or even like your average 6 year old, actually) but I doubt Monet
could stitch a decent Miribilia. It's just a different talent.
Now I realize that in actuality the pictures in this fictional gallery
would have to be original works of design by the stitcher because of
copyright laws, but my main point is that I think that there is a market out
there that would pay what we would ideally like to (and should - because we
should not undervalue ourselves) charge for our needlework, it's just a
matter of finding it and marketing it correctly.
By the way, this gallery would be opened some time after I win the
lottery and get some talent to design (so not in the near future! <BG>)
Does it make more sense now?
Di
Sally <bead...@rmi.net> wrote in message
news:B771E1DF.8D0E%bead...@rmi.net...
> in article gtZ27.270$ds1....@news.uswest.net, Di Messina at
> dmes...@uswest.net wrote on 7/11/01 8:30 AM:
>
> > That's my idea. Some day I'd like to open an art gallery selling
> > needlework. Pricing would be similar to an original oil painting or
> > watercolor by a known artist. It's the same kind of thing. We are
artists
> > and this is our art! Think about this: how much do you suppose Thomas
> > Kincaid (I use him because most people know who he is) gets for an
original
> > piece??
> >
> > Di
>
>
> Hiya Di...
>
> <pulling on my flameproof undies>
>
> I just have to jump in and disagree here (unless I'm misunderstanding you
> somehow). Those of us that take a chart, buy all the necessary components
> (fabric, fibers and beads) and then go about doing this "kit" are *not*
> artists. No way, no how.
>
> I didn't see anything in your post that led me to believe that if you
opened
> a gallery, it would be for original works designed and built by the
> designer. I assumed you to mean any needlework.. which almost always
means
> designs purchased and stitched by people like us.
>
> We may be superb craftsmen/craftswomen, and the finished product is
> absolutely glorious.. but the resulting finished product is only glorious
> because an "artist" created the *design*.. we merely put it together.
There
> wouldn't be a great finished product if it weren't for the "artist" that
put
> it all together.
>
> Now, if you're talking about original works, I apologize for interpreting
> you wrong.
>
> Also.. there is a another supply/demand thing going on here.. there are
many
> more people wanting a Kincaid than there will be for any needlework. This
> is partly due to the fact that a painting can be reproduced and shown all
> over the planet.. which is like marketing exposure.. which drives up the
> price of the original. Needlework doesn't enjoy that same exposure....
> unless you're talking about the designer selling her "original"... and
even
> then, there just isn't the same market for the item (IMHO)
>
> I'm sincerely not trying to start a war here... this is my sincere opinion
> on this. I'm happy to discuss it, but I really don't want this to get
> blown up into a flame war.
>
> Sally
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Carol Sylvester
Dad. He used to fish, and would take my brothers and me fishing when we were
kids. I never liked it much, but my brothers had a great time. For Father's
Day a few years ago, I wrote in his card that I would like to go fishing
with him again.
He died suddenly about 18 months later, and I never got to give him his
gift.
Thank you for bringing it to the show, Paula. It brought back some nice
memories.
Carol Sylvester
carol.s...@sopheon.com
"PaulaB" <bs...@midamer.net> wrote in message
news:ab59d345.01071...@posting.google.com...
Velvet
> Well, I would probably have given them $15 dollars to keep it out of the garage
> sale (or had a friend buy it for $10 at the garage sale), but if I heard about
> it after the fact, I'd probably do just what Victoria would. Life is too short
> to hold grudges. Learn the lesson and move on. Also keep just a smidge of pity
> in your heart for people like your Aunt and Uncle and Grandfather. They have to
> live with themselves everyday, you don't.
Except in their minds, they're "Good Christian people and can do no
wrong" (Uncle is a 'Preacher') "and you're nothing more than the
blacksheep of the family." So while they have to live with themselves
every day, they're perfectly happy with the shallow, self-centered peole
that they are, and blissfully believe that they're above reproach. Pity
them, I do. But I feel for MIL and GMIL who have to live with it, and
the bantering they get because DH is his own person (and actually made
something of himself).
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
Beth Katz
the first place.
However, when my grandparents have died (both sides), my parents made sure
I received any needlework I had stitched for them.
My Mom has a codicil to her will where she lists which of her possessions
go to which people. In general, we get back the items we've given her, but
we can mention to her pieces around her house that we appreciate and why.
It's up to her to keep that up-to-date, but changing it doesn't require a
trip to the lawyer. And we have good conversations about what different
pieces mean to us.
My Dad and I have an understanding that I'll get the needlework back, but
if it didn't happen, oh well. They aren't mine after I give them away.
--
Beth Katz
ka...@cs.millersville.edu
http://cs.millersville.edu/~katz (click on needlework)
WIPs: MLI's "Celtic Banner", MLI's 2001 Free Angel
Di Messina
time energy and love went into the piece and would treasure it.
Di
victoria <ani...@animaux.net0> wrote in message
news:1i9rktcjo3o69rpcp...@4ax.com...
> Sure. But you are a stitcher!
Velvet
> So he wasn't really giving, was he? Sounds to me like he was getting,
> or trying to. I know exactly what you mean - I have family who do
> that too, and when they start in I tend to just clam up. We (as a
> family) are generous, I think, but I don't even want to get into the
> one-upmanship with them. So, they must think we're really stingy
> because we don't talk about it like they do. But I think I enjoy
> giving just as much!
When GMIL was in the hospital (and I may have ranted about this, cus I
was furious with AIL and UIL over their excuse to not even vist her at
the time, let alone send flowers), we sent her a basket of flowers for
Easter (we also sent one to my grandmother). It was the least we could
do - if DH had his way, we'd have been out there in a heart beat. It
was just a small arrangement, but it meant the world to her. _She_ was
the one who'd point it out to all the nurses, and doctors and other
patients in the hospital, and just gush and gush about how much she
loved her grandson, and how much he loved her. We found out about it
from MIL, who did her best to visit GMIL daily. We weren't looking for
any kind of reconition for doing it - we actually felt bad for not being
able to do more - but apparently we got it. To me, that's the best kind
- the recognition that's never asked for, but received anyway. :)
--
Jen Persinger
vel...@rootaction.net
K Polikoff
zucchini outta her garden this year! And a wonderful garden it is - Lizzie
the Lizard and ALL!
Kristal
"victoria" <ani...@animaux.net0> wrote in message
news:gohrktciqettk3jjl...@4ax.com...
> Yes, you got me there. I can never resist to give something of mine to
someone
> who really loves it. I don't mean my furniture, or, you know...but my
garden es
> su garden, my needlework es su needlework. So on.
>
> I'm almost finished with little Max's Moon...can't wait to frame him and
hang it
> on the wall! So cute.
>
> V
>
>
> On Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:01:37 -0500, "Di Messina" <dmes...@uswest.net>
wrote: