Patterns for Henry VIII's wives
macna...@hartwick.edu
they be out of this world?
How about it Marilyn?
lee mclaird
In a previous article, nady...@swcp.com (Nadya) says:
>In article <1995Jun14....@hartwick.edu>, macna...@hartwick.edu wrote:
>
>> Can you imagine Henry VIII's wives as done by Marilyn Levitt-Imblum?
>
>Yes, but _what would she do with Anne of Cleves, aka "The Flanders Mare"?
>Well, perhaps she'd represent her "inner beauty" :-).
>
>Nadya
Anne had her portrait painted by Holbein--gorgeous dress, plain face.
Marilyn could adapt that. Wasn't Anne a great needleworker? (and
Catherine of Aragon and Katherine Parr? To say nothing of Elizabeth I)
Can you imagine what they'd think of our boxes of floss and cloth
collections?
Lee
LHBanchik
have be a earth shaker of a beauty but she certainly wasn't ugly. Try
looking at the portraits by Holbein and others. The term the "Flanders
mare" was used to describe her at a time when Henry VIII was trying to
divorce her and was claiming that her appearance made him impotent.
Lil
naomi pardue
> In a previous article, nady...@swcp.com (Nadya) says:
> >Yes, but _what would she do with Anne of Cleves, aka "The Flanders Mare"?
> >Well, perhaps she'd represent her "inner beauty" :-).
> >
> >Nadya
> Anne had her portrait painted by Holbein--gorgeous dress, plain face.
> Marilyn could adapt that. Wasn't Anne a great needleworker? (and
> Catherine of Aragon and Katherine Parr? To say nothing of Elizabeth I)
It is my understanding that Ann was, in real life, quite unattractive,
with a pock-marked face. She also wore styles that modern eyes (and
Henry's!) would have found appalling. The painting by Holbein was done
to make her look prettier than she was. It is, as far as I know, the
only picture of her in existance.
Naomi
Nadya
> Can you imagine Henry VIII's wives as done by Marilyn Levitt-Imblum?
Yes, but _what would she do with Anne of Cleves, aka "The Flanders Mare"?
Marina Salume
> Can you imagine Henry VIII's wives as done by Marilyn Levitt-Imblum?
*Yes, but _what would she do with Anne of Cleves, aka "The Flanders Mare"?
The new MLI pattern everyone is raving about, "Queen Anne's Lace",
is Anne of Cleves :-)
--marina
Sarah Newberry
>The new MLI pattern everyone is raving about, "Queen Anne's Lace",
>is Anne of Cleves :-)
Are you sure?? It may be she, but no way is her clothing
sixteenth century. They didn't do short sleeves, for one
thing, and women almost always wore some sort of a
headpiece.
To me it looks most like an early 1870s ball gown.
Very confused,
Sarah Newberry
Martha Beth Lewis
Levitt-Imblum?
>>
Mare"?
>>
>>Nadya
>
>Marilyn could adapt that. Wasn't Anne a great needleworker? (and
>Catherine of Aragon and Katherine Parr? To say nothing of Elizabeth
I). Lee
I wish MLI -would- do the queens of Henry, plus Eliz. I, Mary Queen of
Scots. What a breathtaking collection -that- would be!! Martha Beth
Martha Beth Lewis
i'm still waiting to see this pattern, but I didn't understand it to be
Anne of Cleves. I thot it was Anne of "Queen Anne feet on Chippendale
furniture." (Which Anne would this be?) Marth aBeth
Steve and Terri
: In <snewberr.1...@hiid.harvard.edu> snew...@hiid.harvard.edu
I think you're right about which Queen Anne it is (the one the Queen
Anne style of furniture is named after, that is.) She wasn't married
to a King, she was a Queen in her own right. She was Queen for only
a few years -- she succeeded her older sister Mary and her husband
William (yes, that William and Mary). I think she died in 1714.
She had no children, so eventually the throne went to German cousins,
the house of Hanover (the Georges, Queen Victoria, and so on.) The
period of time when Anne was Queen was fairly elegant (after all,
look at the chair legs!)
ANyway, 1870's would be far too late for her, too. On the other hand,
styles had changed a lot by the early 1700's...
Terri
--
Steve and Terri Carl
ter...@neosoft.com
Jennie Brock
II, and Anne Hyde. Married George of Denmark. Queen Anne was Queen of England,
whereas Anne of Cleves was a queen only because she married Henry who was
King.
When her name is being used, people are usually referring to English
architecture or furniture of early 18th century. Queen Anne's lace is - wait
for it - cow parsley! A pretty, wild flower which unfortunately doesn't smell
very nice but is all sort of lacey.
Hope this helps. By the way, I am not a fount of knowledge, I looked all this
up in my enc. dictionary!
Jennie.
--
e-mail: jen...@badgers.demon.co.uk
Elaine Chow
anyone tell me why it's called Queen Anne's LACE?
In the photo, I believe the Queen is holding some roses(?), not the plant
that is widely known as Queen Anne's Lace (wild carrot, or cow pasley as
Jennie said). Had I missed something obvious?
From what I could find out, here's how the plant got it's name:
When Queen Anne arrived in England from Denmark as the bride of James I
(1589), the wild carrot was still a novelty in the royal gardens,....
Queen Anne often sat with her ladies in the summer garden at Somerset House.
This garden, which she had leased in 1604 to John Gerard, possessed a border
of wild carrots, probably planted by Gerard himself. Legend says that Anne
challenged her ladies to a contest to see who could produce a pattern of
lace as lovely as the flower of the carrot. The ladies knew that no one
could rival the queen's handwork, so it was a long summer ordeal for them
and a trimuph for Anne. Though the lace she made that summer has long since
disappeared, the memory of her accomplishment lives on in the exquiste flower
call "Queen Anne's Lace". (C. Haughton, "Green Immigrants")
From the Queen's costum in MLI's design, I suppose we agree that she is not
Anne Bolyne, not Anne of Cleve, not Anne of the carrot flower, but might be
the Anne to whom furniture with graceful legs are attributed. But then back
to my original question, why is it call Queen Anne's LACE?
A still very confused,
Elaine
Martha Beth Lewis
Terri--thanks a lot for this post. You know, somehow I had associated
Queen Anne with Bill & Mary, but the names didn't match and I didn't
see how I could have done that. but I guess my long-term history
switch WAS working! Maybe I was thinking colonial Williamsburg.
Martha Beth
ble...@server0.cybernetics.net
>
>Very confused,
>Sarah Newberry
I agree the dress doesn't look right for either Queen Anne (although
someone posted me that there was only one which confused me!). I
love the design however and I am approaching it simply as a beautiful
woman in a beautiful dress with a great background. I agree it would
be great if Marilyn did Henry VIII and his wives but if she did, to save
herself a lot of grief <g>, she'd have to really bone up on historical
costumes! The minute someone or something is represented that is "real"
there will always be those who care passionately about accuracy.
Keep on stitching,
Carol
CLBence
> Anne style of furniture is named after, that is.) She wasn't married
> to a King, she was a Queen in her own right. She was Queen for only
> a few years -- she succeeded her older sister Mary and her husband
> William (yes, that William and Mary). I think she died in 1714.
Nit alert: Queen Anne had a large number of children. Sadly, none
survived her.
Women's fashion at the time showed a lot of bosom, and arms were
exposed as far as the elbow. I haven't seen examples of dresses of
the period that were either off-the-shoulder or short sleeved.
CLBence
Phyllis Gilmore
Profit <ti...@eskimo.com> wrote:
<snip>
>
>Having not seen the pattern yet, anyone care to give me a hint as to
>whether the lace is the carrot-related flower known as Queen Anne's lace, or
>the tatting/knotting work?
Well, I'm sitting here looking at it now--
The only flowers in the design that are at all identifiable are the
roses Anne is holding and that are attached to her gown. There are
some light-colored bits in the background that *could* be something
else--but--I don't think so :-).
However--I note that her neckline is edged with lace.
So there.
By the by--could someone pass on the information about the amount
of braid needed? I've lost the post from Marilyn.
******************************************
SCA: Philippa de Ecosse, Lyondemere, Caid
mka: Phyllis Gilmore, Santa Monica and Torrance, CA
My opinions are my own, unless donated. All contributions welcome.
Barbara J. Pomichter
3 reels ea #4 braid
Barb Pomichter
Susan Profit
> Martha Beth Lewis (mar...@ix.netcom.com) wrote:
> : >Are you sure?? It may be she, but no way is her clothing
> : >sixteenth century. They didn't do short sleeves, for one
> : >thing, and women almost always wore some sort of a
> : >headpiece.
> : >To me it looks most like an early 1870s ball gown.
> : >Sarah Newberry
>
> : i'm still waiting to see this pattern, but I didn't understand it to be
> : Anne of Cleves. I thot it was Anne of "Queen Anne feet on Chippendale
> : furniture." (Which Anne would this be?) Marth aBeth
>
> I think you're right about which Queen Anne it is (the one the Queen
> Anne style of furniture is named after, that is.) She wasn't married
> to a King, she was a Queen in her own right. She was Queen for only
> a few years -- she succeeded her older sister Mary and her husband
> William (yes, that William and Mary). I think she died in 1714.
That would be Anne, the last Stuart Monarch, daughter to James the II,
born in 1665, reigned from 1702-1714.
She was quite an accomplished needlewoman, and in that day and age that
title was only handed to those who were reknowned in lacework as well.
In fact, there is a quote describing her endless knotting that is
considered by some textile historians to be proof that tatting was well
established duirng her life time. (Don't ask me, I'm not -that- old, I
didn't see her doing the stuff so I don't know for sure who is right.)
> She had no children,
Actually, according to historians, the poor thing had 17 children, but
none of them lived long. Some medical historians take this as proof that
she either was a congenital syphillitic (via her father) or was infected
by her husband, George of Denmark, rumored to be quite a rake. (Again, I
wasn't there and neither were they so I can't say if it is true or not.)
Sadly, she was not known for her brains, nor her political acumen, but for
close friendship with the Duchess of Marlborough (ancestress of Sir
Winston Churchill) her sweet temper, kindnesses, compliant willingness
to please, her gentle intentions that went awry, her failure to continue
the Stuart dynasty and her exquisite needlework.
> so eventually the throne went to German cousins,
> the house of Hanover (the Georges, Queen Victoria, and so on.) The
> period of time when Anne was Queen was fairly elegant (after all,
> look at the chair legs!)
> Terri
> ter...@neosoft.com
No wonder Marilyn posted that she was in trouble when I posted my guess
that it was either Anne Bolyn or Anne Stuart! Marilyn, I promise never to
do it again if you post hints on future projects. Honest.
Having not seen the pattern yet, anyone care to give me a hint as to
whether the lace is the carrot-related flower known as Queen Anne's lace, or
the tatting/knotting work?
@}->- ;) Tinne Laughter Heals :D -<-{@
We are beginners at more than we are experts of.
Steve and Terri
: That would be Anne, the last Stuart Monarch, daughter to James the II,
: born in 1665, reigned from 1702-1714.
: She was quite an accomplished needlewoman, and in that day and age that
: title was only handed to those who were reknowned in lacework as well.
: In fact, there is a quote describing her endless knotting that is
: considered by some textile historians to be proof that tatting was well
: established duirng her life time. (Don't ask me, I'm not -that- old, I
: didn't see her doing the stuff so I don't know for sure who is right.)
: > She had no children,
Sorry! SURVIVING children, I should have said.
: Actually, according to historians, the poor thing had 17 children, but
: none of them lived long. Some medical historians take this as proof that
: she either was a congenital syphillitic (via her father) or was infected
: by her husband, George of Denmark, rumored to be quite a rake. (Again, I
: wasn't there and neither were they so I can't say if it is true or not.)
I didn't remember there were 17, though! One of them actually survived
infancy, if I remember correctly. (He was 10 or so (?) when he died.)
There's a really lovely painting of the two of them when he was oh,
5 or 6, I'm guessing. I just wish I could remember where (and when) I
saw it.
LYNDA KING
MB´I wish MLI -would- do the queens of Henry, plus Eliz. I, Mary Queen of
´Scots. What a breathtaking collection -that- would be!! Martha Beth
for no other reason than he apparently had nice legs.<g>
Lynda
* 1st 2.00o #7312 * Watch where you're going....remember where you've been....
MLI fromLL
> : >Are you sure?? It may be she, but no way is her clothing
> : >sixteenth century. They didn't do short sleeves, for one
> : >thing, and women almost always wore some sort of a
> : >headpiece.
> : >To me it looks most like an early 1870s ball gown.
> : >Sarah Newberry
>
> : i'm still waiting to see this pattern, but I didn't understand it to
be
> : Anne of Cleves. I thot it was Anne of "Queen Anne feet on Chippendale
> : furniture." (Which Anne would this be?) Marth aBeth
>
> I think you're right about which Queen Anne it is (the one the Queen
> Anne style of furniture is named after, that is.) She wasn't married
> to a King, she was a Queen in her own right. She was Queen for only
> a few years -- she succeeded her older sister Mary and her husband
> William (yes, that William and Mary). I think she died in 1714.
That would be Anne, the last Stuart Monarch, daughter to James the II,
born in 1665, reigned from 1702-1714.
She was quite an accomplished needlewoman, and in that day and age that
title was only handed to those who were reknowned in lacework as well.
In fact, there is a quote describing her endless knotting that is
considered by some textile historians to be proof that tatting was well
established duirng her life time. (Don't ask me, I'm not -that- old, I
didn't see her doing the stuff so I don't know for sure who is right.)
> She had no children,
Actually, according to historians, the poor thing had 17 children, but
none of them lived long. Some medical historians take this as proof that
she either was a congenital syphillitic (via her father) or was infected
by her husband, George of Denmark, rumored to be quite a rake. (Again, I
wasn't there and neither were they so I can't say if it is true or not.)
Sadly, she was not known for her brains, nor her political acumen, but for
close friendship with the Duchess of Marlborough (ancestress of Sir
Winston Churchill) her sweet temper, kindnesses, compliant willingness
to please, her gentle intentions that went awry, her failure to continue
the Stuart dynasty and her exquisite needlework.
> so eventually the throne went to German cousins,
> the house of Hanover (the Georges, Queen Victoria, and so on.) The
> period of time when Anne was Queen was fairly elegant (after all,
> look at the chair legs!)
> Terri
> ter...@neosoft.com
No wonder Marilyn posted that she was in trouble when I posted my guess
that it was either Anne Bolyn or Anne Stuart! Marilyn, I promise never to
do it again if you post hints on future projects. Honest.
Having not seen the pattern yet, anyone care to give me a hint as to
whether the lace is the carrot-related flower known as Queen Anne's lace,
or
the tatting/knotting work?
@}->- ;) Tinne Laughter Heals :D -<-{@
We are beginners at more than we are experts of.
Dear Tinne and all of you wonderful historical guessers! I did a lovely
lady and named her for my favorite weed! Something delicate and yet strong
that grows wild and free. I gave her glory in her name as she deserves.
Kind of my version of cinderella... :) Marilyn
MLI fromLL
she was named for the wild weed, strong and blowing in the wind. I loved
hearing your history of the "flower"
Marilyn
Sarah Newberry
>...I did a lovely
>lady and named her for my favorite weed! Something delicate and yet strong
>that grows wild and free. I gave her glory in her name as she deserves.
>Kind of my version of cinderella... :) Marilyn
Not only a lovely lady, but a lovely idea -- I must learn not to be so
literal-minded :-)
Thanks for another beautiful design!
-Sarah Newberry
WILD WES 9
be done too, if
for no other reason than he apparently had nice legs.
As a student of history, I must say I have never heard much nice said
about Henry's legs. (Other than the fact that in his youth he was quite
athletic and robust)
Henry suffered terribly from gout which eventually turned gangrene. His
legs became painful and unsightly. I've read that on occasion, the castle
where he resided during the summer had to be evacuated more frequently due
to the odor which arose from his leg wounds.
****************************************************************
****************************************************************
"WHAT? And quit Show Business?!?"
****************************************************************
****************************************************************
Wild...@aol.com is Wes and Kim Johnson
Jill Spreenberg-Robinson
wild...@aol.com (WILD WES 9) writes:
> Henry suffered terribly from gout which eventually turned gangrene. His
> legs became painful and unsightly. I've read that on occasion, the castle
> where he resided during the summer had to be evacuated more frequently due
> to the odor which arose from his leg wounds.
Eeeeuuwwwww YUK! Guess I won't have breakfast this morning after all!
;)))
Jill
---------------------
robi...@qm.c-geo.siu.edu
Diane Johnston
: > I think you're right about which Queen Anne it is (the one the Queen
: > Anne style of furniture is named after, that is.) She wasn't married
: > to a King, she was a Queen in her own right. She was Queen for only
: > a few years -- she succeeded her older sister Mary and her husband
: > William (yes, that William and Mary). I think she died in 1714.
: Nit alert: Queen Anne had a large number of children. Sadly, none
: survived her.
William and Mary came first, then queen Anne who did indeed have 17
children, only one of whome survived past the age or 2 or 3 and he died
around the age of 10. I think Anne reigned more than a few years but
under 10. I'd have to look it up so i may be wrong.
--
________________________________________________________________________
Diane Johnston |
ae...@ccn.cs.dal.ca |The best cure for insomnia is Monday Morning
________________________________________________________________________
Diane Johnston
: (1589), the wild carrot was still a novelty in the royal gardens,....
: Queen Anne often sat with her ladies in the summer garden at Somerset House.
: This garden, which she had leased in 1604 to John Gerard, possessed a border
Then you must not mean the Queen Anne who had 17 children and died in
1714! James I wasn't "I" in 1589, he was "VI" of Scotland until
Elizabeth I died in 1602 upon which he became "I" of England.
: of wild carrots, probably planted by Gerard himself. Legend says that Anne
: challenged her ladies to a contest to see who could produce a pattern of
: lace as lovely as the flower of the carrot. The ladies knew that no one
: could rival the queen's handwork, so it was a long summer ordeal for them
: and a trimuph for Anne. Though the lace she made that summer has long since
: disappeared, the memory of her accomplishment lives on in the exquiste flower
: call "Queen Anne's Lace". (C. Haughton, "Green Immigrants")
: From the Queen's costum in MLI's design, I suppose we agree that she is not
: Anne Bolyne, not Anne of Cleve, not Anne of the carrot flower, but might be
: the Anne to whom furniture with graceful legs are attributed. But then back
: to my original question, why is it call Queen Anne's LACE?
: A still very confused,
: Elaine
--
Bernadine Skowronski
>From: ter...@starbase.neosoft.com (Steve and Terri)
>Subject: Re: Queen Anne's Lace--Anne of Cleves
>Date: 20 Jun 1995 03:47:36 GMT
>Susan Profit (ti...@eskimo.com) wrote:
>: That would be Anne, the last Stuart Monarch, daughter to James the II,
>: She was quite an accomplished needlewoman, and in that day and age that
>: title was only handed to those who were reknowned in lacework as well.
>: In fact, there is a quote describing her endless knotting that is
>: considered by some textile historians to be proof that tatting was well
>: established duirng her life time. (Don't ask me, I'm not -that- old, I
>: didn't see her doing the stuff so I don't know for sure who is right.)
>: > She had no children,
>: she either was a congenital syphillitic (via her father) or was infected
>: by her husband, George of Denmark, rumored to be quite a rake. (Again, I
>: wasn't there and neither were they so I can't say if it is true or not.)
>infancy, if I remember correctly. (He was 10 or so (?) when he died.)
>There's a really lovely painting of the two of them when he was oh,
>5 or 6, I'm guessing. I just wish I could remember where (and when) I
>saw it.
>--
>Steve and Terri Carl
>ter...@neosoft.com
I don't know where the picture of Queen Anne and her son hangs, but a portrait
of him done a year or two (?) before he died hangs in Colonial Williamsburg in
the Capital Building. Just saw it last Friday!
Bernadine
Mary Shafer
Diane> William and Mary came first, then queen Anne who did indeed
Diane> have 17 children, only one of whome survived past the age or 2
Diane> or 3 and he died around the age of 10. I think Anne reigned
Diane> more than a few years but under 10. I'd have to look it up so
Diane> i may be wrong.
Well, he or she died before Queen Anne did, or the War of Queen Anne's
Succession wouldn't have been fought.
I _think_ this was also known as the Hundred Years War and the other
name is preferred on the grounds of accuracy, since it wasn't actually
a hundred years long, although I'm sure it seemed like it was. (I
also think that the end of this war inspired the poem "How they
brought the good news from Ghent to Aix", you know, "I sprang to the
saddle and Jorick and he.//I galloped, Dirk galloped, we galloped all
three....", which fits well with Anne having succeded William of
Orange.)
--
Mary Shafer DoD #362 KotFR
SR-71 Chief Engineer NASA Dryden Flight Research Center, Edwards, CA
sha...@ferhino.dfrc.nasa.gov Of course I don't speak for NASA
URL http://www.dfrc.nasa.gov/People/Shafer/mary.html
Stephanie Cowans
lynda...@onlinesys.com (LYNDA KING) wrote:
>
>MBYI wish MLI -would- do the queens of Henry, plus Eliz. I, Mary Queen of
> YScots. What a breathtaking collection -that- would be!! Martha Beth
>It would be amazing, but I think poor old Henry should be done too, if
>
>Lynda
>
>lynda...@onlinesys.com
>
> * 1st 2.00o #7312 * Watch where you're going....remember where you've been....
>
yeah, nice legs when he was young --- from accounts written by his
contemporaries. Unfortunately, he only portrait I've ever seen is the one
everyone has seen: the Holbein painting when Goode Prince Hal was past his
prime [but then again, his gams still looked good ;) ]. BTW, in the
discussion of Anne Stuart, I wanted to throw in my $.02: my books on the
English monarchy state that Anne Stuart had a condition known now as
porphyria (a heriditary blood disorder) which is why none of her children
ever survived childhood.
Stephanie Cowans
Jodi L Wittlin
: I _think_ this was also known as the Hundred Years War and the other
hundred years war was significantly before this...it was the one
where joan of arc was martyred, which was before any of the tudors came
to power, well before 1450.
: name is preferred on the grounds of accuracy, since it wasn't actually
: a hundred years long, although I'm sure it seemed like it was. (I
this is true, but it was darn close, although i don't remember the actual
dates.
--
*****************************************************************************
Jodi L. Wittlin jwit...@phast.umass.edu
http://www-vms.oit.umass.edu/~jodiw/home.html
Dept. of Physics and Astronomy UMass, Amherst
The opinions expressed in this post are not necessarily those of UMass or
the Commonwealth of Massachusetts.
*****************************************************************************
Elaine Chow
: Elaine, The lace is clusters of the tiny pearl beads on her neckline and
: she was named for the wild weed, strong and blowing in the wind. I loved
: hearing your history of the "flower"
: Marilyn
Thank you, thank you, Marilyn! Double thanks for pointing out the lace on
her neckline, and the strength in her spirit (love the symbolism). Triple
thanks for producing such magnificent design!
O dear, just as I am emboldened enough to put my needle to the "Celtic
Christmas" linen after learning so much technique from this ng, there
appears to be another beautiful chart to hoard.
Elaine
Mary Shafer
Jodi> NNTP-Posting-Host: frost.oit.umass.edu
Jodi> X-Newsreader: TIN [version 1.2 PL2v [VAX/VMS]]
Jodi> Mary Shafer (sha...@ferhino.dfrc.nasa.gov) wrote:
: I _think_ this was also known as the Hundred Years War and the other
Jodi> hundred years war was significantly before this...it was the one
Jodi> where joan of arc was martyred, which was before any of the
Jodi> tudors came to power, well before 1450.
OK, how about the Thirty Years War?
Unfortunately, we didn't do much European history in engineering
school, although I can discuss the advantages of horse collars and
stirrups. Obviously, I've got to hit the Encyclopedia Britanica this
evening.
ObNeedlework: Speaking of the Tudors, Queen Elizabeth was quite a
needleworker. Even today, when it's time to select people to receive
knighthoods and other titles in the UK, the monarch designates those
to be so honored from the list by poking a hole by the name with a
knitting needle. This became a tradition when they presented such a
list to Elizabeth when she was in the garden, knitting, and all she
had to mark with was her needle, so she did.
Victoria Yturralde
Hi all,
Can anyone give me a clue about how to read those awful multi-paged
charts put out by Lanarte? The one I really want to do, "Spring Ride",
looks like a total pain to read. Any advice?
Victoria
Jennifer Culver
Victoria,
Have you considered making copies and taping them together? I've done
this a time or two.
TTYS,
Jennifer
LHBanchik
King James I to Charles I, before Oliver Cromwell and definitely before
Queen Anne.
Lil
Jennie Brock
|> lynda.king writes: It would be amazing, but I think poor old Henry should
|> be done too, if
|> for no other reason than he apparently had nice legs.
|>
|> about Henry's legs. (Other than the fact that in his youth he was quite
|> athletic and robust)
|>
|> legs became painful and unsightly. I've read that on occasion, the castle
|> where he resided during the summer had to be evacuated more frequently due
|> to the odor which arose from his leg wounds.
(sig. erased)
I was going to come back on this, yesterday, but on re-reading it I decided
that Lynda was being a bit(?) sarcastic. Trouble with not seeing people's
faces or hearing their voices is, it's difficult to tell, but I think it helps
if you use more '?' and '!' etc, for emphasis.
--
e-mail: jen...@badgers.demon.co.uk
Elaine Chow
: Then you must not mean the Queen Anne who had 17 children and died in
: Elizabeth I died in 1602 upon which he became "I" of England.
Diane is absolutely right - Anne of Denmark married James, son of
Mary Stuart, king of Scotland, while he was James VI (of Scotland,
1567-1625). Although in general, he is more readiy recognized as
James I of England (1603-1625). With the death of Queen Anne, the
one who had 17 children and died in 1714, actually ended the Stuart
reign.
Elaine
Erica Nielsen Killins
LHBanchik <lhba...@aol.com> wrote:
>Hey, wait up a minute there. Anne of Cleves was not ugly!! She may not
>have be a earth shaker of a beauty but she certainly wasn't ugly. Try
>looking at the portraits by Holbein and others. The term the "Flanders
>mare" was used to describe her at a time when Henry VIII was trying to
>divorce her and was claiming that her appearance made him impotent.
>
I know I'm jumping into this thread a little late, but this does need
to be said.
Anne of Cleves was, in fact, very ugly. She had smallpox as a child,
and as a result, her face was extremely pock-marked. Holbein was sent
by Henry to paint a portrait of Anne so that he could see his bride-to-be.
Holbein deliberately painted her as beautiful (as no doubt she would have
been if not for the smallpox) in order to not offend Henry. After all, he
had just beheaded his second wife and all were concerned with ensuring
that their heads remained on their shoulders! :-)
When Henry met Anne when she arrived in England, he wouldn't even remain
in the same room as her. Didn't even spend their wedding night with her.
He only married her because he was contractually obligated to. Then as
soon as he became enchanted with his fourth wife (cousin of his second wife)
he then began looking for a way to divorce his third.
Quite the man, that Henry character. Unlucky were his wives.
Erica
--
****************************************************************************
* Erica Nielsen Killins | To err is human, but if the *
* er...@io.org | eraser wears out before the *
* Home of the Jays & the Leafs | pencil, you're overdoing it. *
Sarah Newberry
>hundred years war was significantly before this...it was the one
>to power, well before 1450.
The Hundred Years' War lasted from 1338 to 1452. It was fought,
more or less, because the French and English were arguing about
who had the best claim to certain territories in France and to
the French throne itself. It involved the English and the French
conquering and reconquering the same territories. I am posting
the story at tedious length below. It has absolutely nothing to do
with needlework (except that if the parties involved had done more
needlework and less conquering, life would have been more peaceful).
--Background--
Henry II of England inherited Normandy, Brittany, and other parts
of present-day France from his parents and brother. In 1152 he married
Eleanor of Aquitaine, which brought Aquitaine, Gascony, and other
territories under English control. His son John lost most of that land,
and John's son Henry III ceded his rights to Normandy, Maine, and Anjou
in 1259. During the next eighty years, England and France argued over
who owned Gascony.
In 133?, Charles IV of France had died without a male heir. His daughter
Isabelle had married Edward II of England, and her son Edward III was
Charles' only direct descendant. The French decided, however, that the
crown could not be inherited through a woman, so Charles' cousin Philip VI
became king. He confiscated Gascony in 1337.
--The War--
Edward III invaded France in 1338, claiming that the French throne was
rightfully his. He wanted to reclaim the territory England had previously
held in France, and he was worried about a possible French/Scottish
alliance. He suffered defeats at first, but by 1360 he had regained almost
all of Aquitaine, and he then renounced his claim to the French crown. By
1374, however, Charles V of France had reconquered all of the land
previously held by the English, except Calais.
During the reigns of Richard II and Henry IV of England, France and England
were more or less preoccupied with internal affairs, though they were never
at peace. France, for example, sent troops to aid the Welsh in their fight
against Henry.
In 1415, Henry V of England invaded France and claimed the French throne.
(Does this sound familiar?) After his victory at Agincourt, he made rapid
progress. By 1420, he held Normandy, had an alliance with the Burgundians,
had married Catherine (daughter of Charles VI of France), was recognized
as the heir to the French throne, and had pledged to go to war against
the Dauphin (Charles' son Charles), who held southern France.
Henry V died in 1422, leaving his nine-month-old son Henry VI supposedly
king of both England and France. However, the French south of the Loire
recognized the Dauphin. In 1428, the English laid siege to Orleans,
stronghold of the Dauphin's supporters. But the siege was raised by the
inspiration of Joan of Arc and in 1429 the Dauphin was crowned Charles
VII of France. (On the other hand, in 1431 Henry VI was also crowned King
of France.)
The Duke of Burgundy changed alliances, and supported Charles VII. By
1447, Charles had reconquered all the English holdings in France, again
except Calais. His defeat of the English forces at Bordeaux in 1452
ended the war.
-Sarah Newberry
macna...@hartwick.edu
for some reason I have an overwhelming desire to learn more about all these
Annes and the Tudors and the Stuarts and...
I'm learning more from this ng that I ever imagined...
Jamie
Jennie Brock
Jennie.
--
e-mail: jen...@badgers.demon.co.uk
LHBanchik
Anne was not pock marked, that in and of itself was unusual since most
people were at that time. If you read the reports about her that were
written at the time when the annulment was in the wings (and this was at a
time when people were trying to discredit her) the only comments made were
that her clothes were ugly, her nose too long, and her english inadequate.
She was well liked in the british court of the time. As a matter of
fact, when Catherine Howard was deposed, there was a popular sentiment,
that lost out to Katherine Parr, to reinstate her as Queen. I would refer
you to Antonia Frasier's "The Wives of Henry VIII" for some contemporary
pictures, besides Holbine's of Anne.
Lil
Steve and Terri
: Sorry guys/gals. The "Thirty Year's War" was fought around the time of
: King James I to Charles I, before Oliver Cromwell and definitely before
: Queen Anne.
: Lil
There were at least three "succession" wars fought in the late 1600's /
early 1700's that had a bearing on the succession in England. The first
was the Nine Years War that started when Mary and William took the
throne. It was sometimes called the War of the English Succession,
so this may be what you're thinking of.
This gets pretty complicated, but basically, James II, who renounced his
Catholicism to become King, married a Catholic when his first wife
(mother of Mary and Anne) died. England was pretty violently
anti-Catholic at the time, so when James had a son by his second wife
and rumors started that he had the child baptized a Catholic -- he
did, after all, name the pope as the baby's godfather -- there was
a general outcry, and the result was the Glorious REvolution of
1688-1689 -- glorious because of the lack of bloodshed. James left
the throne in favor of his daughter Mary and her husband William,
although I think the lack of bloodshed was more due to James's fleeing
to France when he heard that his son-in-law was on his way to London
with an army than it was due to any good will on his part.
The Nine Years War, or King William's War, or the War of the English
Succession (this may be the one you're thinking of) started some time
around 1689. One issue in the conflict was France's support of
James II's claim to the English throne, but that wasn't the least of
it. All the little wars that happened for the next century with
France put together are sometimes known as the _second_ Hundred
Years War, and some of the conflicts had a lot to do with the
English Succession.
The son of James (who was also named James),was brought up in France.
(He is also known as the Pretender, or the Old Pretender.)
In the War of the Spanish Succession, which happned after Queen Mary
died, but William was still on the throne, the French used James as a
political tool. When James II died (the war was still going on) , France
announced that his son James was James III of England. There was
some support for this in England and Scotland (especially Scotland) --
the Jacobites, who were the supporters of the Stuart family, wanted
James the Pretender on the throne,just as they wanted James II on the
throne during the Nine Years War.
After Anne died, there was the Jacobite Revolution, which didn't
actively involve any other countries. I think this rebellion was
sometimes called the Fifteen (because it happened around 1715).
But they were defeated, and the Hanovers hung onto the throne.
The War of the Austrian Succession in the 1740's involved Bonnie
Prince Charlie, son of James (the Old Pretender). (Charles is also called
the Young Pretender, to distinguish him from his father.) France supported
his claim to the throne to undermine England, but the Jacobites were
once again defeated. (A lot of the Scots ended up in America after
fleeing Scotland.
I think that was the last serious threat to the throne from the Stuarts --
Charles didn't have any children, a lot of his supporters were gone, and
there were plenty of other reasons for England to fight with France.
I may be missing a detail or two, but this period of history is
pretty interesting to me. I hope I haven't bored anyone to death...
Martha Beth Lewis
writes:
>Back to the Anne of Cleve's Beauty Pagent.
he he he!
when Catherine Howard was deposed
She was "deposed" in a big way! Henry deposed her head!
martha beth