Maybe a dumb question ...

[Lladnit]

How do you mount canvas for framing? Lacing/pinning doesn't seem appropriate,
given the stiffness of canvas.

TIA,
Jackie in VA

[K Sartori]

im not a pro and maybe the way i do it is wrong. i have only been doing
this for a about two years. i buy the press and mount boards. and to
me no question is ever a dumb question. its better to ask than no to
know. Kelly

[phillip...@bellsouth.net]

you will probably get a zillion responses your post, but being inexperienced
at one time, I too used the press and mount board. Now 15-20 years later,
those pictures look awful in their mounts, the board doesn't keep it tight,
and the ick on the material makes it a mess to re-do later. So in my
opinion, if you don't want to pay to have it done professionally for what
ever reason, I'd either lace or use pins or the special tape for
needlepoint. The stuff that has been done one of those ways after 15 years
still looks as nice as it did the day it was framed.

Sandra

"K Sartori" <Celtic_mo...@webtv.net> wrote in message
news:21509-416...@storefull-3116.bay.webtv.net...

[Lucille]

<phillip...@bellsouth.net> wrote in message
news:TYk8d.28399$yp.1...@bignews1.bellsouth.net...

My old ones were done by simply stapling the blocked canvas to a wood frame.
Several of them were done more than 30 years ago and are still fine.

Lucille
> >
>
>

[Lladnit]

Sandra said, >I'd either lace or use pins or the special tape for
needlepoint.<

Thanks, Sandra! This brings up another question: given the stiffness of
canvas, how is it possible to make a crisp fold inside the edges so that the
fabric is unlikely to bow outward from the middle of the mounting board? Like
you, I can't bring myself to use sticky board, although it seems to be a
logical choice if one wants the fabric to be perfectly flat on the board.

Jackie in Virginia

[Ellice]

Lladnit wrote:

Definitely do NOT use sticky board. In the LNS when I was working, and we do a
lot of framing, we generally pin canvas. The important things are that there is
some margin of open canvas (not too much), that it's been blocked square and you
have a good board for mounting. Not the thinnest foam core. You definitely want
to block it first - unlike XS, or other work on linen which is squared in the
mounting process. After it's been blocked, then you mount it. We do it with pins
- essentially you fold on a canvas line - similar to when pinning linen - you do
it on a thread grain line, or with Aida in the same line of holes in the block
folded.. I wouldn't be pinning into the very first open line - I'd try to leave
at least a couple open - depending on your frame, matting planes. When you do
the corners - don't do them pinned like hospital corners, rather do the pinning
along the circumference, and then fold the excess on the back. I'd suggest
cutting the canvas margins so that you don't have a huge amount of canvas bulking
up on the back - but of course leave some (1-3 inches) depending again on the
size of the entire piece. You can tape down the extra fabric on the back - just
use acid free tape if you can. Just a couple of little pieces to hold it down so
that when you finish the framing it's not flying up against the dust sheet
(covering paper on the back).

I hope that helps. Again, if you use decent board, block first, and go it'll be
easier than you think. Only problem if you have to keep repinning to get it
straight - sometimes you'll squish a corner of the board - which isn't good.
Then, if you've folded the board, you need to start on a new one.

Ellice - who used to do this alot

[F.James Cripwell]

Ellice (ell...@cox.net) writes:
>(snip)

> I hope that helps. Again, if you use decent board, block first, and go it'll be
> easier than you think. Only problem if you have to keep repinning to get it
> straight - sometimes you'll squish a corner of the board - which isn't good.
> Then, if you've folded the board, you need to start on a new one.
>
> Ellice - who used to do this alot

We have a mamber of our Guild, who is one of the few people I know
who makes money selling her finished pieces. She calls them "Needle
Painting"; they are gorgeous and the cheapest one sells for over 1000
dollars Canadian. However, the point of this message is what she uses to
mount them. She uses fibreboard, which is, of course, absolutely loaded
with acid. She rounds the corners, so that there are no sharp edges, and
then covers the board with aluminium foil. She claims this is completely
safe, and I believe her, and it is the cheapest and strongest type of
backing board you can get. I think she uses something like quarter inch,
or maybe three-sixteenths. Needless to say, she stretches the canvas
using string. I have seen a demonstration which she gave, and she can do
a perfect job in about 10 minutes. HTH.

--
Jim Cripwell.
The gods do not subtract from the allotted span of one's life, any
time that is spent in stitching.
Adapted from a sign on The Cobb, Lyme Regis, England.

[Ellice]

"F.James Cripwell" wrote:

> Ellice (ell...@cox.net) writes:
> >(snip)
> > I hope that helps. Again, if you use decent board, block first, and go it'll be
> > easier than you think. Only problem if you have to keep repinning to get it
> > straight - sometimes you'll squish a corner of the board - which isn't good.
> > Then, if you've folded the board, you need to start on a new one.
> >
> > Ellice - who used to do this alot
>
> We have a mamber of our Guild, who is one of the few people I know
> who makes money selling her finished pieces. She calls them "Needle
> Painting"; they are gorgeous and the cheapest one sells for over 1000
> dollars Canadian. However, the point of this message is what she uses to
> mount them. She uses fibreboard, which is, of course, absolutely loaded
> with acid. She rounds the corners, so that there are no sharp edges, and
> then covers the board with aluminium foil. She claims this is completely
> safe, and I believe her, and it is the cheapest and strongest type of
> backing board you can get. I think she uses something like quarter inch,
> or maybe three-sixteenths. Needless to say, she stretches the canvas
> using string. I have seen a demonstration which she gave, and she can do
> a perfect job in about 10 minutes. HTH.

I've seen, known others that do this. The barrier is the important thing. It's like
using Masonite for watercolor backing boards. I've done some fabric art pieces that
are on Masonits (fiberboard) with a barrier, and actually some quilt batting
underneath - but then I didn't want to put it in a frame - and boy, was it a pain in
the behind to figure a way to hang. Maybe for her it is the cheapest - of course
around here you have to go to the lumber yard, get the cut board, beg them to round
the corners, etc. Certainly strong. IME, foamcore generally is strong enough for
canvas., and lighter in the frame.

It's a lot harder to lace a canvas piece evenly - so it really depends on the
design. Her needle painting may not require being absolutely square when it's laced
and then going into a frame. Maybe it does. Obviously she has practice at doing it.
It's not typical. My friend who owns the LNS can stretch a piece in much less time
than I originally could. Most people aren't stretching 10 pieces a day. Lots of
alternatives.

Ellice

[Ellice]

"F.James Cripwell" wrote:

> Ellice (ell...@cox.net) writes:
> >(snip)
> > I hope that helps. Again, if you use decent board, block first, and go it'll be
> > easier than you think. Only problem if you have to keep repinning to get it
> > straight - sometimes you'll squish a corner of the board - which isn't good.
> > Then, if you've folded the board, you need to start on a new one.
> >
> > Ellice - who used to do this alot
>
> We have a mamber of our Guild, who is one of the few people I know
> who makes money selling her finished pieces. She calls them "Needle
> Painting"; they are gorgeous and the cheapest one sells for over 1000
> dollars Canadian. However, the point of this message is what she uses to
> mount them. She uses fibreboard, which is, of course, absolutely loaded
> with acid. She rounds the corners, so that there are no sharp edges, and
> then covers the board with aluminium foil. She claims this is completely
> safe, and I believe her, and it is the cheapest and strongest type of
> backing board you can get. I think she uses something like quarter inch,
> or maybe three-sixteenths. Needless to say, she stretches the canvas
> using string. I have seen a demonstration which she gave, and she can do
> a perfect job in about 10 minutes. HTH.

I've seen, known others that do this. The barrier is the important

[Marjorie Holme]

I pin mount my canvas to the edges of a piece of archival foamcore. I
line it up and "pin tack" it so it's centered and even and like I want
it. There's generally a couple of inches of blank canvas (that will be
under the mat) but even if I don't use a mat and the stitching goes
nearly to the edge of the foamcore, this works. The pins are all around
the perimiter when done and hold well and are easy to remove.

Here's the key: I take a q-tip (cotton bud) and moisten it (if I was
being picky I'd use distilled water, but I generally just use tap
water). I dampen the canvas thread right where I want the fold line
(dampen, not wet). I make a crisp fold, pin in place and push the pins
all the way into the foamcore edge and then let it dry. I haven't used
enough water to rinse out the sizing, just loosen it while wet---so it
crisps back up when dry. The crisp fold helps hold the piece in place.
I've also dampened canvas at the corner folds on the back so I get a
nice flat corner.

I've even wrapped damp canvas around a foam ball and held it on with a
rubberband until dry for round ornaments. (I usually cover a foam ball
with a plain or metallic fabric and pin the canvas to the ball over
that, pin a coordinating stitched piece or plain fabric over the rest of
the ball and cover the seam with ribbon.)

I do my framing at a local Great Frameup (Homewood, IL). I go in and
pick out my frame and mat; they cut a rectangle in a piece of archival
foamcore. The foamcore piece matches the overall frame size, the
rectangle cut in the middle is just a tad-bit larger than the opening of
the mat. I take the foamcore and my needlework home and they assemble
the frame, cut the mat, etc. and call me when it's ready.

While I'm waiting (generally a week) I block and then pin mount my
piece. Then I go into the store and assemble the mat, embroidery,
backing, etc. myself. (I don't think I save that much money doing this
but I like the control of mounting and assembling myself and I also like
having the shop's space and tools and expertise.)

I just did one this week for our local guild show coming up fast!
Marjorie

[Lladnit]

Wow! Thank you all for the great suggestions! We're an awesome group, with so
many knowledgeable people. I'm no longer scared to try mounting canvas.

Off to do that!
:-) Jackie in Virginia
Jacqueline Tindall

[Mavia Beaulieu]

"Marjorie Holme" <mho...@uchicago.edu> wrote in message
news:4164375A...@uchicago.edu...

Thanks for the interesting framing information, Marjorie. Could you tell me
why you have the center piece removed from the foamcore. Why don't you use
it as a solid piece...or did I misunderstand what you wrote?

Mavia

[Kathy in WA]

As a former picture framer, I can certainly vouch for the sturdy and
durable qualities of fiberboard. After wrapping it with a suitable
barrier material, I've used it many times with pin or stainless staple
mounts for needlepoint and cross stitch. The extra ground was then
wrapped around to the back, and secured with archival tape. This did
not hold the piece, but merely secured the edges, so they stayed neat,
and did not break the paper dust jacket.

Jim, I can't believe this "artist" you mention uses aluminum foil as a
barrier, especially for textiles. I would certainly never do it,
expecially on a stitched piece that contained charms, silk or metallic
fibers, or where the ground was dyed with tea or other "organics"!
The possibilities for future electro-chemical reactions are just too
likely, even if you try to maintain "museum conditions". After all,
that's why they call them "accidents". I prefer to call them
"avoidable".

HOW?? There is an excellent barrier product available at all places
that sell mats and other framing materials. It's called 2-ply or
3-ply rag liner, and I ALWAYS use it as a barrier on mats or backing
material that is not specifically labeled "archival". And I do mean
ARCHIVAL. Acid-free is a misnomer. But don't get me started on THAT
soap box again. ;-)

You can ask your shop about rag liner of either thickness, but most
places only stock one of the two types. Liner is heavier than paper,
but still thinner and less rigid than matboard. It's often mounted to
conventional matboards when the desired color/texture is not available
in archival mat product. If you have a choice, pick the lighter stuff
for lining mats prior to cutting, and the heavier stuff as a backing
board liner.

Of course, if you still want to use the foil be my guest. But I
suggest you ask any boater about aluminum and electrolysis before you
do so. Most of them have have at least 1 good "horror" story to tell
about that problem.

Kathy in WA