Painting - before baking or after?
Eileen Morgan
I am relatively new to this newsgroup and have immensely enjoyed the
exchange of wonderful ideas, as well as the obvious compassion amongst
the participants here.
Recently, I obtained instructions on making poly-clay items that
include painting various components. However, there was no indication
of whether you paint before or after you bake. Any comments would be
welcomed.
Thanks!
Eileen, from Nanaimo, British Columbia, Canada
--
*Miniaturists need fimo-therapy*
--
sharon l vigneux
Usually it is best to bake the item then paint it. I make all kinds of
elves and fairies. I paint details on their faces and costumes after
baking them. Sometimes I bake a piece in stages. If I am making a
complex piece I do this. I'll bake the head and torso, paint the
details then add the arms and legs, bake then paint more details and so
on. Baking the painted clay has never created any problem and I think
it even sets up better.
Sharon V
Sue Heaser
In article <32114D...@mailhost.empire.net>, sharon l vigneux
<sha...@mailhost.empire.net> writes
>
>on. Baking the painted clay has never created any problem and I think
>it even sets up better.
>
>Sharon V
But be careful of this one! I have found some problems over time with
red paints. Dolls, with lips painted in subtle pink acrylic onto the
baked flesh clay (Fimo in this case) have developed a smudgy reddish
area in the clay around the mouth which looks awful. This can occur
even without rebaking but seems worse if I have painted the mouth, then
decided to add some clay to the sculpture and then rebaked. I have had
the same happen on a miniature teaset made of transparent. It takes
about one year to start happening. The teaset is about 3 years old and
the orange stain is still spreading all over it.
I now always paint the clay surface with varnish (matt) before painting
the faces to provide a barrier and this seems to stop the problem. I
think the plasticiser affects the acrylic paint in time.
It's hard being at the sharp end of a relatively new craft material!
:*D
Sue in UK
--
Sue Heaser
Becky Winch
Eileen Morgan wrote:
>
> I am relatively new to this newsgroup and have immensely enjoyed the
> exchange of wonderful ideas, as well as the obvious compassion amongst
> the participants here.
>
> Recently, I obtained instructions on making poly-clay items that
> include painting various components. However, there was no indication
> of whether you paint before or after you bake. Any comments would be
> welcomed.
I've done it both ways. It's generally easier after you bake the piece,
because the clay is hard and you don't take the chance of messing up the
shape. I also bake in a convection oven, so I don't know what effect a
regular oven may have on the paint. (I put a lot of things in my
convection oven that I would never put in a regular one.)
I haven't tested the different methods to see if one of them adheres the
paint any better than the other. Has anybody else out there? If it's
jewelry and I've applied paint, I always coat the piece with Sculpey
Glaze or fingernail polish so that the paint doesn't rub off. On
figures, I generally leave as is, except eyes. When you coat them with
the glaze it makes them look more life-like.
Side note: I know some people have had problems with nail polish, but I
never have. I have some pieces that are 2 or 3 years old, and they're
still fine.
Happy sculpting!
Becky
William Fitch
This brings to mind the discussion of bleeding magenta Fimo. (I have
some beads that started to bleed the other day.) Could this be the
same phenomenon?
Michelle
(DawnT...@aol.com)
(http://www.fitchpub.com/art.htm)
Cecilia Determan
Sue Heaser wrote:
>
> In article <32114D...@mailhost.empire.net>, sharon l vigneux
> <sha...@mailhost.empire.net> writes
> >
> >on. Baking the painted clay has never created any problem and I think
> >it even sets up better.
> >
> >Sharon V
>
> But be careful of this one! I have found some problems over time with
> red paints. Dolls, with lips painted in subtle pink acrylic onto the
> baked flesh clay (Fimo in this case) have developed a smudgy reddish
> area in the clay around the mouth which looks awful. This can occur
> even without rebaking but seems worse if I have painted the mouth, then
> decided to add some clay to the sculpture and then rebaked. I have had
> the same happen on a miniature teaset made of transparent. It takes
> about one year to start happening. The teaset is about 3 years old and
> the orange stain is still spreading all over it.
>
> I now always paint the clay surface with varnish (matt) before painting
> the faces to provide a barrier and this seems to stop the problem. I
> think the plasticiser affects the acrylic paint in time.
>
> It's hard being at the sharp end of a relatively new craft material!
> :*D
>
> Sue in UK
> --
> Sue Heaser
Hi Sue. Loved your cars in the PolyInFormer. I wonder if the paint bleeds
because the piece wasnt't baked all the way through? I have a Spanish
dancer whose FIMO magenta dress is bleeding into her ruffled petticoats
more every year. (She was made in 1990 when I first started and was
experimenting with lower baking temperatures for longer times.) Since
unbaked clay softens baked clay where it touches I assumed that was maybe
what is causing the bleeding. Could that be happening with your things?
Anybody else every have that happen? All advice will be greatly
appreciated. I hate not knowing "why?". Thanks! :) Cella in SD
Sue Heaser
In article <3212B5...@iw.net>, Cecilia Determan <cela...@iw.net>
writes
> I wonder if the paint bleeds
>because the piece wasnt't baked all the way through?
Hi Cella,
I think you may be right, that bleeding is more likely to occur
with underbaked clay. For years I always baked very high - higher than
recommended as I was supplying retail stores with vast quantities of
jewellery and I could not afford breakages. I was baking Fimo at 170
Centigrade for only ten minutes for brooches, beads, etc. The results
were bomb proof and very robust indeed. In the six years I was doing
that, I had no bleeding problems from clay into clay and only the very
occasional problem from paint bleeding.
Once I stopped making for wholesale, I began to fear for my
lungs (!) so I turned down the temp and the paint and clay bleeding
problems began. The trouble is, I am now baking at the recommended
temps which is what everyone else will be doing.
I do find that the reds (and occasionally dark brown) are the
only ones that cause problems, though - perhaps unstable dyes? And the
problem seems to be made worse if I rebake something already painted.
It *is* worrying, as the problem only appears after a while - I
hate the thought of unsuspecting dollmakers selling things and then they
discolour on the customer's shelf. It could give polyclay a bad name.
I've only tested Fimo on this one - I shall have a go at the
other clays when I get the time.
Has anyone else experienced these problems?
Best wishes, Sue
--
Sue Heaser
Sherry Bailey
Well, one thing is you can use Jack Johnston's technique, and use actual human
makeup (pressed powder types only, not with "glitter") on raw clay for tinting
lips etc. (Blusher in this case). Works well if you want a natural look and
not ruby red. I haven't HEARD of the colors bleeding like some paint can do.
With paint, are you folks using acrylic or oil paint? I would suggest acrylic,
since the oil is the thing that makes the pigment travel.
Sherry
Sue Heaser
In article <4v2cf6$j...@news.bu.edu>, Sherry Bailey <slba...@bu.edu>
writes
>Well, one thing is you can use Jack Johnston's technique, and use actual human
>makeup (pressed powder types only, not with "glitter") on raw clay for tinting
>lips etc. (Blusher in this case). Works well if you want a natural look and
>not ruby red. I haven't HEARD of the colors bleeding like some paint can do.
pastels - (much better range of colours than make-up and pure ground
pigments so no extra chemicals) - but only for the subtle effects and
shading - no bleeding there but it's so subtle anyway.
>
>With paint, are you folks using acrylic or oil paint? I would suggest acrylic,
>since the oil is the thing that makes the pigment travel.
>
on polymer clay as it never dries - remains sticky for ever. All my
comments apply to acrylic which is, as yet, I think, the only paint you
*can* use. I'd love to hear of any other discoveries, though!
cyli
What about water colours?
--
"If I die of curiousity, who will entertain you with naive questions?"
I only answer my mail on an average of once every two months. Be
patient.
pat_l...@wvmccd.cc.ca.us
In article <qolh5EAY...@rubcomp.demon.co.uk>,
Sue Heaser <s...@rubcomp.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> It is, as far as I have found, impossible to use oil paint of any kind
> on polymer clay as it never dries - remains sticky for ever. All my
> comments apply to acrylic which is, as yet, I think, the only paint you
> *can* use. I'd love to hear of any other discoveries, though!
> Sue in UK
> --
> Sue Heaser
>
Sue, have you tried watercolor and watercolor pencils. A thin layer
of art translucent (#7 on the pasta machine) cooked over the
watercolor, then sanded and buffed, and you have beautiful enamel
like color that wont wear off. and isnt as glossy as the liquid
varnish. (hope this isnt redundant, I can only read the newslist
thru dejanews)
pat
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William Fitch
Marie Segal asid that at ACCI Donna Kato was mixing polyclay with
Sculpey Dilutent to get a paint-like mixture which she then brushed
on the clay. Marie said the results were beautiful.
Just an idea,
Michelle
(DawnT...@aol.com)
(http://www.fitchpub.com)
Sue Heaser wrote:
>
> In article <32184D...@visi.com>, cyli <cy...@visi.com> writes
> >What about water colours?
> >
> >
> I've tried them - they only go on after careful de-greasing - gouache
> is best but they are even more unstable than acrylic. Many colours of
> the watercolour and gouache paints bled into the surrounding clay after
> time - some took about 4 years to do it too, darn the things! You have
> to paint over them with varnish to stop them just washing off too. I
> certainly don't recommend them for long term results - not even mixed
> with acrylics.
>
> Perhaps we need a polyclay paint? How about it, manufacturers? Paint
> that is actually dilute polyclay in a binder that you just bake onto the
> clay.
>
> I think I'll go and try my heat fix silk paints on the clay - but give
> me 4 years to see if it bleeds! ;*)
> --
> Sue Heaser
William Fitch
William Fitch
Sue Heaser
William Fitch
William Fitch wrote:
>
> Marie Segal asid that at ACCI Donna Kato was mixing polyclay with
> Sculpey Dilutent to get a paint-like mixture which she then brushed
> on the clay. Marie said the results were beautiful.
>
> Just an idea,
> Michelle
> (DawnT...@aol.com)
> (http://www.fitchpub.com)
>
> Sue Heaser wrote:
> >
Sorry about the three posts. I've never had that problem before. I
certainly hope it doesn't continue, but if it does please bear with me
and I'll look into it.
Michelle (who hopes this only goes out once.)
(DawnT...@aol.com)
Kathy Dudek
Has anyone out there (cyberland) tried mixing the clay with diluent?
Just how much does one have to mix? I would love to make my cat/kitten
ornaments more realistic by using clay to make the calico look, but I
refuse to "bastardize" my clay by applying paints. If I could paint the
clay on (probably like slip) it wouldn't compromise my standards. If
anyone out there is doing this, please let us know the details. Mamadude
William Fitch
Kathy,
I'll ask Marie when I'm at the Clay Factory Monday. I will be out of
town (w/o computer, but with my clay) until the 30th. If no one
responds by then remind me and I'll let you know what she says.
Michelle
(DawnT...@aol.com)