Paint-on structual/textural material?
Bill
I hope no one minds me busting in with a question.
I want something which I can paint on card paper that will give me a
hard, ceramic like layer that will be solidly stiff and in which I can
fashion textures. I am thinking that it will be like a thin clay or paper
mache, white or near white so that it will take dyes or ink and fairly quick
drying so that I can paint it on vertical surfaces. Probably something that
will build up to about a 1/16th or an 1/8th of a inch.
Any help appreciated, TIA.
BetsyB
fashioned into almost anything and painted later. I have a tube that came
with the paint kit for model cars.
HTH,
BetsyB
"Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote in message
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Curious
Bill <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote in message
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>
>
> I want something which I can paint on card paper that will give me a
> hard, ceramic like layer that will be solidly stiff and in which I can
> fashion textures.
Bill
Anything that goes on 'wet' is going to buckle and ripple the card
unless it is pinned flat.....even then it will distort.....Plastic card?
Clay is no go, unless you want to experiment with 'paper clay' but that will
involve
access to a kiln.
Cement Fondu- mix of paper mache and cement *might* work...you would need to
add a binder (Bondcrete or any cement glue) and you would still have to work
horizontal. Durability would be a problem because the cement
will eventually 'eat' the card.
The only other thing I can think of is Polyurethane....Comes in cans from
the Hardware...'Gapfiller' and the like- spray foam.
You could try spraying a blob on the card then spreading it as evenly as
possible with a spatula...or lay plastic over it an press it with something
flat/heavy. (or do both?)
It is sticky crap and wont spread easy by hand...pressing it would be the go
and the plastic will release/peel off when it cures.....trim extruded
excess. (Don't get foam on skin or eyes.....don't breathe either)
This could/should give you a thin ridged and flexible card/foam
board...capable of taking a slurry of anything you wish to paint on.
I use Cement Fondu (1/3 each- white cement, white sand, white paper mache)
as a render over Polyurethane that
is sprayed on wire armatures (for your purposes you might drop the sand).
For my work the foam is about 1 1/2 inch thick (minimum) so it does not flex
and the cement render does not fracture when dry.
For your purposes you may be better off with a PVA glue and Paper Mache mix
(use recycled rag paper).
Getting it all as thin as you require might be a problem.
Experiment mate......tis the mother of invention;-)
Let us know how you go.
(Model Railway suppliers are often good resources for this kind of thing)
All the best.
Rod.
Lori Greenberg
Wood putty might also be an option, or a smooth spackle?
--
Lori Greenberg
http://www.abundancebox.com
"Curious" <Curio...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:3c3c...@dnews.tpgi.com.au...
Bill
"Curious" <Curio...@hotmail.com> wrote :
>
> Anything that goes on 'wet' is going to buckle and ripple the card
I just found that out...
> Experiment mate......tis the mother of invention;-)
So far I have tried...
Fabric paint : never got stiff enough even after repeated layers, but was
good on the paper.
Spackling : Too crumbly going on. To weak when dry.
Plaster of Paris : Soaked the paper too badly but looked good when done...
so far...
> Let us know how you go.
Thanks, I think so far it is the Plaster of Paris, but I need to do as
you said, make it on flat surfaces, at least to start. Perhaps after the
first layer dries I can go back and add other layers on the upright model.
I suspect that I will have to seal the final product, maybe with a
glaze. What do they normally use on P.o.P.?
queendeb
used on top of a paper layer---so it shouldn't soak in too much, and it's
used as stucco and other faux looks....and you can just build it up...more
layers mean more depth...and, if you make it stiff enough, it should hold
whatever shape you want.
just my $.02
Deb
wtoy...@blast.net
Curious wrote:.
> >
> > I want something which I can paint on card paper that will give me a
> > hard, ceramic like layer that will be solidly stiff and in which I can
> > fashion textures.
Liquitex makes a Structural Paint. It comes in a tube like toothpaste. Ican't
find it on their website (www.liquitex.com) but I've seen it recently (maybe at
Dickblick.com?). I haven't used it but I've seen it demonstrated several times
on HGTV and thelike.
LT
Sjpolyclay
goop for sale for applying to walls, also in art supply stores there's a
gesso-like stuff...Dick Blick has modeling paste that "may be used to create a
textured ground for painting, collage, relief sculpture, etc". Also, I've heard
of people rubber stamping on walls with silicon spackle and then painting it.
Also, try it on heavier cardstock/matboard or stretched cloth instead of paper?
Varathaned cloth is very sturdy when dry...but still thin and you can form it
while wet. Then apply stuff to it--even glue would be a texturing agent, but
the gesso/spackle stuff would be even better.
HTH
Sarajane
Sarajane's Polymer Clay Gallery
http://www.polyclay.com
come see my auctions at Just Beads:
http://www.justbeads.com/auction/SellerAuctions.asp?User=61044
Andrew Werby
"Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote in message
[Plaster of Paris has to be primed first before it will accept paint. The
traditional thing that's used is shellac, diluted with alcohol for a first
coat, then full strength. As for your project, I think you need to provide
more information before anybody can help you very effectively. Is this
textured piece supposed to be a finished work of art, or is it a
transitional part? Will it have to be hung on a wall? Is it going outdoors
or indoors? What sort of texture do you want to give it? Are you carving on
it, or pressing things into it, or what? ]
Andrew Werby
http://unitedartworks.com
>
>
Pat Kight
> "Curious" <Curio...@hotmail.com> wrote :
>
>>Anything that goes on 'wet' is going to buckle and ripple the card
>>
>
> I just found that out...
>
>
>>Experiment mate......tis the mother of invention;-)
>>
>
> So far I have tried...
> Fabric paint : never got stiff enough even after repeated layers, but was
> good on the paper.
> Spackling : Too crumbly going on. To weak when dry.
> Plaster of Paris : Soaked the paper too badly but looked good when done...
> so far...
There's a compound called modelling paste, which you should be able to
find in stores that sell artist supplies, that sounds as if it would
fill your needs. It's acrylic-based, white, paste that's spreadable (use
a spatula or palette knife), holds sculpting and impressions, and dries
to a relatively hard, flat finish that takes paint and/or ink
beautifully. It can even be sanded when completely dry.
Since it goes on fairly dry, you won't get much of the buckling
mentioned, and the finish is quite smooth.
If you're going for very thick texture, you may need to build up in
layers, letting each layer dry completely, to avoid cracking.
One good source for this and other arts and crafts supplies is
http://www.dickblick.com - they seem to stock just about everything. Use
their search engine and look for "modelling paste" and you should find
several different options.
--Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
tHAT
Bakers/Decorators use to show off their wares, i.e. demo wedding cakes and
stuff. I can't remember what they call it but it dries hard and is generally
used on cardboard forms.
FWIW,
tHAT
Bill
"Andrew Werby" <and...@computersculpture.com> wrote :
>
> As for your project, I think you need to provide
> more information before anybody can help you very effectively. Is this
> textured piece supposed to be a finished work of art, or is it a
> transitional part? Will it have to be hung on a wall? Is it going outdoors
> or indoors? What sort of texture do you want to give it? Are you carving
on
> it, or pressing things into it, or what? ]
Well, it's a little hard to describe. What I want to end up with is a
scale model house, like the ceramic ones in gift shops, but I want to do it
a particular way because I am homeschooling and we are doing a few things
that require certain steps that I might not otherwise take. I would make it
out of wood, but my little boy (6 yo) is enamored of the ceramic ones and
wants to make some "just like them". We are in no way ready to make complex
molds required to do that, plus in our crafts we are right in the middle of
learning to lay out things on the computer, print on paper then cut them
out. So I want to lay the house out on paper, cut and fold them into shape,
then cover it with something that is relatively easy to paint on (so that he
can help), that will make it hard (like the ceramic ones) and will last as
Christmas decorations (for Mom's sake). So they need to be durable to be
touched, picked up and packed away.
Our plans are to make some every year as a Christmas tradition to go
along with out train set.
I think every bit of the detail will be either flat as paper, or built
up in layers, as in doors, windows and shrubbery. Colors can be built in
and/or painted on. If there is not something that will work as well as I
might want, we will fall back on making it out of balsa, but I was hoping to
avoid that level of knife work.
Thank you for your time and I hope this gives you enough information.
do...@perfect-touch.com
house of that, and putting the slabs together? This would skip the
cardboard, except for use as a pattern. I know there's a book out on making
miniature houses out of polymer clay, but the name escapes me at the moment.
Dona
Dona Vaughn
Perfect Touch Modeling & Sculpting Tools for Artists Working in Small Scales
http://www.perfect-touch.com
"Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote in message news:bB2%7.7181$> Well, it's a
do...@perfect-touch.com
Polymer Clay
by Gail Ritchey. You can read about it and read excerpts on Amazon and buy
it there for $6.90 or you can buy it at http://www.hamiltonbook.com for
$4.95. The scale may be a little smaller than you anticipated, but I
believe you could scale up some.
Dona
Dona Vaughn
Perfect Touch Modeling & Sculpting Tools for Artists Working in Small Scales
http://www.perfect-touch.com
<do...@perfect-touch.com> wrote in message news:3c3cc93f$1...@newsa.ev1.net...
Louise
I've used it with stencils on paper; have also used the spackling compound
from Home Depot with limited success.
hope this helps...
Louise
"Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote in message
Helen Fleischer
> So far I have tried...
>Fabric paint : never got stiff enough even after repeated layers, but was
>good on the paper.
>Spackling : Too crumbly going on. To weak when dry.
>Plaster of Paris : Soaked the paper too badly but looked good when done...
>so far...
Liquitex makes a modeling paste medium for building up texture in
paintings. That might be worth a try.
helen...@covad.net
Helen "Halla" Fleischer,
Fantasy & Fiber Artist in Fairland, MD USA
Helen Fleischer
I just found the instruction page in her HGTV web site:
http://hgtv.com/HGTV/project/0,1158,CRHO_project_26346,FF.html
If nothing else, this should give you some good ideas to play with.
| On Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:27:35 GMT, "Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote:
> Well, it's a little hard to describe. What I want to end up with is a
>scale model house, like the ceramic ones in gift shops, but I want to do it
>a particular way because I am homeschooling and we are doing a few things
>that require certain steps that I might not otherwise take. I would make it
>out of wood, but my little boy (6 yo) is enamored of the ceramic ones and
>wants to make some "just like them". We are in no way ready to make complex
>molds required to do that, plus in our crafts we are right in the middle of
>learning to lay out things on the computer, print on paper then cut them
>out. So I want to lay the house out on paper, cut and fold them into shape,
>then cover it with something that is relatively easy to paint on (so that he
>can help), that will make it hard (like the ceramic ones) and will last as
>Christmas decorations (for Mom's sake). So they need to be durable to be
>touched, picked up and packed away.
>
> Our plans are to make some every year as a Christmas tradition to go
>along with out train set.
>
> I think every bit of the detail will be either flat as paper, or built
>up in layers, as in doors, windows and shrubbery. Colors can be built in
>and/or painted on. If there is not something that will work as well as I
>might want, we will fall back on making it out of balsa, but I was hoping to
>avoid that level of knife work.
>
> Thank you for your time and I hope this gives you enough information.
>
Diane Black
do, and can be quite strong.
You could make pattern pieces from sheets of clay (after having
drafted them on paper and cut them out for templates), then put the
pieces together with more clay (inside the joints, or other ways).
Dipping the whole house in Varathane will give you a definite ceramic
look to the clay.
You can paint on clay, or use only colored clays to begin with, or do
some combination of both. Polymer clay can be textured or shaped to
your heart's content! either as a part of the base or created
separately and added later. You can even use the properties of the
translucent clays to create little windows which will allow a small
xmas bulb to shine through, etc. Polymer is also great for making
shrubbery, flowers, paths, trees, or other accessories.
If you really want to use the all-one-piece-pattern which is folded
together to create the structure, you might want to check out Wireform
Mesh, Paragona Products, which can be covered with clay and is easily
cut with scissors, especially the finest grid called Sparkle Mesh.
You could also use a removable or non-removable cube-shaped armature,
like a papier mache box, for example, to put raw clay sheets around
before baking.
I have a page all about making small structures (houses, etc.) on my
website. There's more explanation of the above methods on that page
and of other relevant techniques too, if you're interested:
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/houses_structures_gingerbread.htm
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/armatures_mesh_PVC.htm
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/vessels.htm
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/covering.htm
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/miniatures.htm
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/finishes.htm (in particular, Flecto
Varathane)
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/paints.htm
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/Faux--many.htm
http://www.glassattic.com/polymer/beginners_kids.htm
Hope you guys have a great time! . . . what you're doing was something
I always hoped my son and I would get into, but he never got the bug
for it...phooey.
Diane B.
http://www.glassattic.com --polymer clay "encyclopedia"
Bill
Thanks for all the replies.
Because I have a big container of Plaster of Paris on hand, I have been
playing with it. I think I can make it work by using really thin layers to
start and making my houses out of cardstock. So far, my efforts look good
and my son should be able to help make some "heirlooms" for the Christmas
tree, if I can cover it with something that will protect it. Someone said
shellac, but I was hoping I could get something with color, since the food
color in the in the PoP trick that I have been using makes a sort of pastel
that is not good for some of the buildings I want to make.
Is there a way to simulate ceramic glazes on PoP? Or maybe some oil
paint of some sort?
Helen Fleischer
> Is there a way to simulate ceramic glazes on PoP? Or maybe some oil
>paint of some sort?
Acrylic paint with a coat or two of gloss medium on top should do it.
Bill
"Helen Fleischer" <helen...@covad.net> wrote in message
news:cs6u3ugcudd8ivon0...@4ax.com...
> | On Fri, 11 Jan 2002 04:37:24 GMT, "Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote:
>
> > Is there a way to simulate ceramic glazes on PoP? Or maybe some oil
> >paint of some sort?
>
> Acrylic paint with a coat or two of gloss medium on top should do it.
Thanks! Just got back from the craft store with a bottle of Acrylic
paint and have put a layer of blue on my test house. Looks pretty good. I
will have to go back for some "gloss medium"... what exactly is that? The
lady there didn't seem to know... usually they are so helpful but today must
have been a bad day.
Pat Kight
If you're intent on using plaster, you can paint it with regular tempera
or acrylic paint (for the latter, make sure the plaster is *thoroughly*
dry, or you may experience some peeling). Spar varnish is usually
recommended as a protective glaze, but you could also use clear acrylic
glaze.
I'd recommend against using oil paint. Remember, oil and water don't
mix, and plaster tends to absorb moisture from the air around it. That's
why it's also smart part of the object unpainted - the bottom, for
instance. Otherwise you risk sealing moisture into the project, with the
ultimate result that the paint will probably fall off.
For what it's worth, I wouldn't use plaster for the sort of item you're
talking about, because plaster objects tend to be both heavy and fragile
for their size. If you want these pieces to become family heirlooms,
you're probably going to be disappointed. Personally, I think you'd be
better off with papier mache (which can be made quite permanent with the
right surface treatment) or polymer clay.
--Pat Kight
kig...@peak.org
Bill
"Pat Kight" <Pat....@orst.edu> wrote :
>
> For what it's worth, I wouldn't use plaster for the sort of item you're
> talking about, because plaster objects tend to be both heavy and fragile
> for their size. If you want these pieces to become family heirlooms,
> you're probably going to be disappointed. Personally, I think you'd be
> better off with papier mache (which can be made quite permanent with the
> right surface treatment) or polymer clay.
Thank you for your suggestions and I would agree except that we are
really doing this for a craft lesson, not the end result, and cutting paper
and painting are the skills we are working on. Doing anything else would be
outside what we are trying to learn, no matter how good it would turn out.
I would prefer real wood construction, and will probably turn to that in
a couple of years. Anything we make now will be sentimentally valuable to
some extent, but not intended to be finished product.
Thanks again for your suggestions though.
BTW, after several layers of very thin plaster on regular printer paper,
my first rough test turned out not-so-bad. (see post "Plaster construction
test" on alt.binaries.photography) The walls ended up fairly straight due to
me loading it up on the parts that had fallen in somewhat, and the texture
is ok for the little bit I tried to texture. Best of all, after drying over
night, I was able to remove the paper from the inside (something I won't be
able to do on the card stock ones I have planned) and reinforce the corners
with a heavy bead of plaster. The Blue paint I got is way too dark, and
there are some problems that I already figured a way to fix (uneven bottoms,
lumpy corners, still slightly concave walls), but all in all I am fairly
pleased, mostly because my little boy is pleased.
Helen Fleischer
>> Acrylic paint with a coat or two of gloss medium on top should do it.
>
> Thanks! Just got back from the craft store with a bottle of Acrylic
>paint and have put a layer of blue on my test house. Looks pretty good. I
>will have to go back for some "gloss medium"... what exactly is that? The
>lady there didn't seem to know... usually they are so helpful but today must
>have been a bad day.
>
Gloss medium & varnish it says on the bottle, usually. Gloss medium and
matte medium are extenders for diluting the color without losing the
texture of the paint, think of them as clear paint, though the matte is
milky and dries milky. When you put the gloss medium on top it's like a top
glaze. It helps protect a bit adds a look of depth and evens up the shine,
since some of the paint colors are less glossy than others.
Tommy Humphries
When mixing your plaster replace some of the water with condensed milk. The
casein in the milk will harden the plaster and make it virtually waterproof.
It might actually give it a plastic like sheen if I remember correctly.
The exact measurements escape me but it might work with a direct
substitution of milk for water... not too expensive for a little
experimentation :^)
This is from a website I found... http://www.ata.org.au/64paint.htm
"Why milk and lime? The first reason is that they are cheap and readily
available, which is why milk and lime mixes were the most commonly used
paint until the mid-1800's. Most importantly, though, they have a
synergistic effect that makes great paint. Milk contains a salt called
casein, which reacts with calcium in lime to form calcium caseinate, a resin
that binds itself with pigments in the paint and the surface the paint is
applied to. Many people complain of the great difficulty in removing the
bottom layer of paint on old doors and window frames-in many cases, that's
well-cured milk paint. The combination also means that once cured, milk
paint will no longer be alkaline. "
This was talking about milk paint, but the milk plaster retains more of the
solid nature and will be more hard.
If you try this let us know how it worked!
"Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote in message
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Tommy Humphries
I have just been informed that the procedure *might* have been to simply
brush the milk on the surface of the plaster instead of mixing it in. I
suggest you try both and post your findings to the group!
"Tommy Humphries" <th...@shreve.net> wrote in message
news:3c3f8...@news.shreve.net...
Bill
> regarding that last post...
>
> I have just been informed that the procedure *might* have been to simply
> brush the milk on the surface of the plaster instead of mixing it in. I
> suggest you try both and post your findings to the group!
I will try both later tonight, but I don't know how I will test the
result.
I seem to remember something about putting milk on top of plaster... but
I don't know what it was... I would think that if you want the whole thing
to be catalyzed you would have to mix it right in.
Bill
"Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote :
>
> I will try both later tonight, but I don't know how I will test the
> result.
So far, using careful measurements of fluid and plaster and the same
number of layers...
Just milk (Half and half actually) looks really good, but doesn't set up
very well. I had to do things to get it to dry enough to put on more layers.
But it is definitely less chalky and has a smother finish.
Just water cracks more and is not nearly as strong, it also tends to
flake off the paper much more easily and since it seems to warp the paper
more, I got some really bad flaking that I didn't get at all with the milk.
Started a third test with 1/4 half and half which seemed to set up a
little easier (but still not really well at all, and a fourth one which will
be brushing 1/4 milk over dry plaster.
welshwren
This sound like a lovely project for your little boy - when you have ironed
out the wrinkles I might try it with my 5 & 6 years olds!
I had a thought about uthe use of paper/card stock. Could you not print the
design onto acetate which obviously wouldn't ripple or do you need there to
be some aborbancy to help the POP to stay in place whilst drying. A small
balsa wood frame could get around this.
Jenni
"Bill" <N...@Thankyou.com> wrote in message
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