SERIOUS ART MEDIUM
C.Simpson
POLYCLAY : SERIOUS ART MEDIUM?
Some thoughts on why polyclay is not considered a serious art medium by
some people:
1. No offense to the many male artists working in polyclay, but doesn't
it seem that many (most?) of the well-known polyclay artists to date are
women? Historically, women artists have been taken much less seriously
than men. Until recently, and even now in some quarters, women's art in
any medium has been viewed as frivolous, an anomaly, a waste of time
better spent making babies and baking treats for men!
I bet if some high-profile male artists (wildlife realist
painter Robert Bateman comes to mind) started using polyclay, any doubts
about its being a serious medium would disappear!
2. Polyclay is associated with "crafts," that is, hobby crafting, which
again our society views as a largely female activity and therefore, in
some eyes, not worthy of serious consideration.
I think polyclay manufacturers must bear some responsibility for this
attitude, because they market the stuff as a kiddie's and
specialty/hobbyist's medium.
If we are using it as a serious art medium, we must demand that
manufacturers treat it as such. For starters, colour names should convey
universally recognized pigment qualities. (I understand that CFC/Premo
has "real" colours like "cadmium red" and "ultramarine blue". Good bye,
red hot red!) MORE IMPORTANT: For each colour, print lightfastness and
colour permanency ratings on the labels, so we can be confident that
today's red will be red ten years from now. We invest so much time,
energy, and money in this medium. Manufacturers must assure us that our
finished products will stand the test of time.
Cathy
Sue Heaser
In article <3486E6...@thezone.net>, "C.Simpson"
<casi...@thezone.net> writes
>POLYCLAY : SERIOUS ART MEDIUM?
<many good points snipped>
One thought that keeps jumping into my mind - following on the excellent
point that it is the artist not the medium that makes the result art...
Damian Hurst (sp?) is possibly one of the most famous modern artists
about in the UK and his medium seems to be largely dead animals in
fomaldehyde... hmmm... And a nominee for the much lauded Turner prize
uses dust as her medium...
I have not found this a problem in UK - if you are creating art, the
medium is largely considered irrelevant, it is not a barrier to
acceptance. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of other
nationalities; this looks as though it varies with different cultures.
--
Sue Heaser
T.J. Howell
>2. Polyclay is associated with "crafts," that is, hobby crafting, which
>again our society views as a largely female activity and therefore, in
>some eyes, not worthy of serious consideration.
>
>I think polyclay manufacturers must bear some responsibility for this
>attitude, because they market the stuff as a kiddie's and
>specialty/hobbyist's medium.
>
Cathy,
I am a male who works in Polymer Clay and I took no offense whatsoever
to your post.. (grin)
I do, however, think there is a point to be made in defense of the
manufacturers of Polymer Clay. They market it the way they do so that
they have a more extended sales base. For those of us who consider it
as a serious art medium this may stick in our collective craw, but
without it we would be without a medium period.
There are not enough of us out there who buy it as a serious artist
material to warrant it's manufacture and marketing as such. The bread
and butter of the Polymer Clay makers are those people who go into
Michaels or somewhere looking for something pretty to make Xmas
ornaments from. (or something similar)
This being the case I do not fault them for their marketing. I am sure
they all wish their product was considered right up there with
Rembrandt Brushes and Grumbacher Artist Oils... But they know their
audience and that's why they market it as such. It is up to you and I,
and all polyclay artists out there to turn out work that proves our
medium. I have seen some miraculous works of art created with Crayola
Crayons or that cheap dehydrated gradeschool watercolor stuff... The
proof is not in the marketing of the product. The proof is in what we
do with it.
Thanks!
Tommie
po...@online.tietokone.fi
s...@heaser.demon.co.uk,Usenet6 writes:
>I have not found this a problem in UK - if you are creating art, the
>medium is largely considered irrelevant, it is not a barrier to
>acceptance. It would be interesting to hear the opinion of other
>nationalities; this looks as though it varies with different cultures.
In Finland polyclay is definitely a craft, if even that. Polyclay is not
very well known material here, even though they sell Cernit even in some
bookstores among with paints.
I haven't seen or read about Finnish artist using polyclay, but it would
not be a big surprise if there was one in here. In our culture media is
full of sports and politics, so it´s no wonder that one feels like art is
somewhat forgotten here ;-)
I myself do not consider myself as an artist, I don´t do art with polyclay,
at least not yet. As this jewellery making is not my main ambition (some of
you know I am going to become serious author) I don´t feel so bad if people
do not show respect of what I have done. Never the less I am becoming more
and more serious about selling my jewellery and other craft items, and some
of my "creations" are a lot more art than wearable things. In Finland one
gets so used to hear underestimating comments that you´d have to get immune
with them. If not, it is not possible to do anything. I suppose it is same
everywhere, people do not believe in others skills until there is a proof
of that. To some there is enough proof is your art sells, others do need
some competition winnings etc. IMHO learning and using any form of art
needs a lot of self-confidence.
I don´t envy all of you artist who use polyclay as medium. I suppose it is
very hard to try to ensure gallery keepers to take your items and build
exhibitions as polyclay does not have "take me serious"- label in peoples
mind. I am assuming that gallery owners feel like it would be easier to
take unknown painters exhibition to gallery than it is to risk with unknown
polyclay artist (I hope this is not blaspheme expression !). The same must
go with other unknown mediums. After having succes in other mediums it
might be easier to use polyclay, but if an artist is only using polyclay I
suppose she/ he would have to be really good before getting any succes at
all.
As many of you said before, it´s not the medium that makes the difference.
I would like to use Kaffe Fasset, the well known knitter and artist, as an
example here. He definitely did start to use knitting as an art medium, and
I have not heard a single word about his work being "craft" or "hobby".
There always has to be one or few exceptionally talented artist until new
ways of art get self-evidently the "serious"- label.
And, as polyclay has been used so little to art, is that so bad thing ? I
suppose there would be less competition, much greater opportunity to get
noticed as an original artist... Many painters I know do feel like
"everything is done before" and that must be overwhelming thought. With
polyclay there are no rules, no borders, that you´d have to obey: it is
possible to play with clay in good conscience, and having no rules you
could achieve more than with rules.
I myself have noticed that because I really have no clue what is possible
with PC I am very enthuastic to try even the odd and impossible ideas. I
suppose that someone with some real artistic talent would get very far with
this stuff, the possibilities are enormous.
I´m sorry, I did not try to deliver a sermon to you people, I did it for
myself !
PöRRö
--
Po...@online.tietokone.fi
Sarjassamme moderneja satuaarteita:
Jotkut pillipiiparit vievät sekä palkan että lapsuuden,
mutta jättävät rotat kaupungin kaduille.
C.Simpson
Tommie wrote: "It is up to you and I, and all polyclay artists out there
works of art created with Crayola Crayons or that cheap dehydrated
gradeschool watercolor stuff."
I agree! Of course art can be made of anything. I once saw a
piece in a gallery made of apple cores. And remember Picasso's bull
portrait, made of a bicycle seat and handlebars? But I do think that
many--certainly not all--artists are concerned with the permanency of
their work--will it last? Thus all the lightfastness labelling on
paints, for example.
I don't blame polyclay manufacturers from marketing to the hobby market,
if that's where they make money. But it would be a help for "serious"
users of the medium to include "real art" colour names (like CFC does)
and colour lightfastness ratings on their labels.
Anybody who has not seen Tommie's work should go the Moonlight Arts page
RIGHT NOW!
Cheers, Cathy
DBuck26803
I think that it is interesting to note that the idea of separating art and
craft into two unequal categories is a relatively recent idea and still would
not be understood by many of the world's cultures.
Jody Bishel
Sherry Bailey
Well, the problem is ages old... "What IS Art" was always the first writing
assignment ("nobody writes PAPERS in Art, Miss Bailey!!!") when I taught art,
and no two people answer it quite the same way. (I would be happy to go
elsewhere and discuss MY opinion aobut animals in formeldyhyde, for example!
;^) )
But personal opinions aside, acceptance and recognition and respect (which the
pickled beasts guy doesn't get from ME!) are things which not only are nice to
get at the time, but also have a significan impact on market value and on
"collectibility" of finished products, which has an impact on both the fine
artist in polymer clay and on the production craftsman. We can't ever get the
kind of assumed value that a goldsmith will get based merely on the material
-- you can't melt polymer clay back down and still have something expensive.
But we ought to be able to achieve the status PAPER has. Paper has some
negative properties, it can age, stain, turn brittle, tear, get dirty... But
which of us would refuse the gift of a piece of paper Leonardo da Vinci or
Picasso had played around with!?
Paper has been an accepted art material for centuries, though. Polymer clay is
still too new to have that level of tolerance, and even those of us who USE it
still can't be positive how it will hold up over the really long haul, or what
exactly needs to be done to best maintain it. We need the technical
information we lack. And we need a few Leonardos and Picassos! Until one of
you guys (I don't figure it will be me!) get to THAT level, the rest of us
(who are interested in this) need to devote a bit of our creative time to
things to demonstrate that this stuff CAN be art, and get it out there in
view. (Doesn't help to have it in the living room, get it into a gallery or
show.) (The web helps some... better than the living room!)
Maybe I should reiterate a point I think got lost along the way... I don't
think anybody is trying to imply that production craft is BAD or
inferior. Only that it's not in the category of fine art. And that the
prestige of that category is worth aiming for with our medium because the
"fringe benefits" are good for everybody. Cat pins DO sell. (My pal Jan Fujita
makes gorgeous "Japanese"-influenced jewelry. Her cat pins often outsell the
more elegant stuff in the same price range.) People love to have costume
jewelry and knick-knacks that are kind of kitsch, but that make then happy. No
reason not to take advantage of that. (I DO contend that nobody has any
business selling polymer clay things that are shoddily crafted, badly glued,
cruddy findings, etc. though... craftmanship may not be ABSOLUTELY perfect but
it should be very good.) (I met a glass artist recently who does beautiful
stained glass, very professionally. She is experimenting with glass
jewelry. Afterward I learned she is gluing ear posts to bits of glass with
Aleen's Tacky glue! I hope polymer people research their glues and make better
choices than that, the posts pop off instantly in cold air! She should be
using a good quality epoxy with glass and metal.)
Anyhow, no matter what high ideals any individual may espouse, there will
always be beginners, hobbyiests, "crafters", craftsmen, production craftsmen,
fine artists, and aspiring artists (and probably in-betweens) so the best we
can do as a group is try to make our own stuff as quality as we can, try to
grow, and pass on the best advice we can, and encourage top
craftsmanship. (And maybe enter some shows!!)
One thought... if what you make would be compared with something manufactured
and sold in a gift shop, you might want to think about changing it so IF it's
gonna get compared, it wins. YOU might know it's individually hand sculpted
and not poured from molds, but will the ignorant customer care? If you add a
feature that CAN'T be made another way, it distinguishes your work and might
make it more marketable.
(Aren't these philosophy discussions fun!?)
Sherry
Dorothy Mcmillan
Oh, wow! Sherry! Now that's what I call really delving into the
subject. Very nice indeed. I can't even think of anything to add, which
is quite unusual for me. Oh, well, maybe just a little something.
Actually, art is often in the eyes of the beholder, isn't it?
We all know someone who loves oil paintings of Elvis on black velvet.
But is it art? The technique is good, so who cares what the subject or
canvas is? Right? Well, to the person who likes it, it IS art. But to
most of us, it isn't. I think of art as something done by someone who
sees things in a different light, from a different angle, and can make me
see it that way also. The art part is the ability to convey our personal
view from our bridge to others. They may or may not like what they see,
but no one can deny that it isn't unique.
-
Dotty in CA VBC...@prodigy.com
Sherry Bailey
Me again! (I can't help it, this is one of my favorite speculative subjects!)
With regard to the idea of "art is in the eye of the beholder"...
Again, that's one way of looking at it, and the one which justified using the
word "art" in connection with all sorts of peculiar things!
I guess my viewpoint is slanted from having had a lot of college classes (in
my undergrad fine arts degree program) where the snob attitude of art was
brainwashed into us -- "a higher calling" if you will! From that angle, art is
proven over the years by acceptance and accolades by critics (professional
snobs!), art collectors, and other "intellegentsia" kinds of discerning
folk. The outer fringes of that strata of society are where judgements about
made that effect us. (The core is mostly in museums and high-end galleries...)
That's the zone where we have multi-media juried shows and fairs which demand
expertise, aesthetics, skilled craftsmanship, etc. and where we MIGHT make
inroads that could do the medium some good.
I guess I'm saying, it's true that art is a thing of individual judgement whe
it comes to what YOU perceive to be art vs. what *I* perceive to be
art. However, it's important to find the things where the general consensus
among a lot of people is the same: this IS art, and get more polymer into THAT
category, if the goal we polymer artists have is to get the respect and
financial success that painters or other "obvious" artists get.
One other observation. I don't mean this to sound like any kind of
"indictment" because it's certainly not how I mean it, but it seems to me that
not much of the work I see out there in polymer "says" much. (My own
definitely included.) I think an aspect of art which we maybe could exploit
more and which might give us more credibility is to use polymer clay to
communicate ideas. (This may not be realistic in production work or even in
one-off things like jewelry, although maybe there would be some argument that
fine metals jewelry isn't precisely "art" for this discussion either... not
sure.) I think Kathleen Dustin's middle eastern ladies, especially when you
can look at them closely, say something about her perceptions of women for
example, as well as being decorative and within her intent, useful. I think
Katherine Dewey's "fossil" fairy is extremely evocative, and I'd call that
fine art. It might be interesting to think about opportunities to try to
communicate things we are passionate about in the clay work we do, if that's
possible and if we can avoid being too "kitsch" about it!
Sherry
BDRAI
Where is Tommie's web site? I missed it.
Nuchi
T.J. Howell
On 7 Dec 1997 06:42:20 GMT, bd...@aol.com (BDRAI) wrote:
>Where is Tommie's web site? I missed it.
>
>Nuchi
At least for the time being the address is
www.cjnetworks.com/~tjturner
Thanks for askin!
Tommie
Margaret Little
Polymer Clay Goddess
She brought it in through the
back door,
snatched tools she knows from
all her years in the kitchen.
She shaped it and
baked it and now
look there!
She and her polymer clay
are dancing.
This poem happened while I was thinking about Cathy's well-made points,
including the gender issue. I see this medium and its growth as a wonderful
celebration of what women can do. Women discovered its potential, which has
been predominantly developed by women. Women have generated
businesses with it, both in art and craft. Wow! That's something special,
isn't it?
The congenial willingness of poly clay to be beautiful even unto the
determination of the most dedicated paint-by-numberness is, I think, one of
its greatest challenges. Challenge is gender-free and what art is all about,
isn't it?
Margaret
cyli
We can demand all we want. But if it's still being mostly sold to
kids and hobby crafters, what interest will the manufacturers have in
our 'demands?' They will go with their profits. As they should.
It's one reason that there are 'student' grade paints in oils and
acrylics. While they try to keep those up to quality, they're not as
concerned as they are with the 'artist's' grade paints the pros and
really gifted amatuers use. And that's with oil medium and acrylic
medium which are recognized as 'art.' The acrylic paints you'll find
in a craft department for decorating objecst aren't generally on the
same scale as what you'll find in an art store.
This is not to say that major manufacturers will turn out shoddy
products. They'll turn out as excellent products as they can afford
to. Or they'll be out of business when someone else comes along and
does better.
Look at the competition in the clays, with CFC coming out with a whole
new line of Premo. The real demand, even from the hobby side is
there. In the purchasing of the material. They know it. Things will
get better in the products line. But not due to the stated demands of
a few of hundred people. Unless those people are up there with
Picasso for sales. They are, however, all competing for the craft
hobbyist market. Which becomes more sophisticated as the thousands or
tens of thousands learn more about the craft and care more about it.
And make visible demands with their cash and checkbooks.
On Thu, 04 Dec 1997 13:52:30 -0330, "C.Simpson"
<casi...@thezone.net> wrote:
(snipped)
>
>If we are using it as a serious art medium, we must demand that
>manufacturers treat it as such. For starters, colour names should convey
>universally recognized pigment qualities. (I understand that CFC/Premo
>has "real" colours like "cadmium red" and "ultramarine blue". Good bye,
>red hot red!) MORE IMPORTANT: For each colour, print lightfastness and
>colour permanency ratings on the labels, so we can be confident that
>today's red will be red ten years from now. We invest so much time,
>energy, and money in this medium. Manufacturers must assure us that our
>finished products will stand the test of time.
>
>Cathy
-------
"If I die of curiosity, who will entertain you with naive questions?"
I only answer my mail on an average of once every two months. Be patient.
C.Simpson
Margaret,
Thank you for articulating much more clearly what I was trying to say
about women/craft and men/art, and how it all comes out in polymer clay!
To complement your lovely poem Polymer Clay Goddess, may I add this from
the great Victorian English designer William Morris:
There was a time
when each one made a work of art
at the same time as a useful thing
and out of this uniting
burst a spontaneous joy.
Cathy
Kathy & Wil
I keep four sayings around my work space and I noticed that my favorite
was from William Morris also.
We should have nothing in our houses
which we do not either know to be useful
or beleive to be beautiful.
William Morris
The others are:
Creative people like to play.
Dale Chihuly
It's not the material,
but the absence if human labor
that makes a thing worthless.
John Rushin
and my next to favorite:
If art is hard,
It's because you're struggling
to go beyond what you know you can do.
unknown
Kathy
Julian
I think an aspect of art which we maybe could exploit
more and which might give us more credibility is to use polymer clay to
communicate ideas
Sherry,
Such food for thought! I ate it up.
The possibilities are astounding. I still want to go so many places
with this stuff. I just didn't know where to start first, so I tried a
little of this and a little of that. Now, I read your reply after finishing
Tommie's website and I see exactly what makes him stand out. He pulls you
into what he's interested in by his ability to depict meaning in his pieces.
I have always been a goody-goody, pastelly kind of person, so when I read
his opening page explaining his "dark mood" creations I wasn't sure I hadn't
wasted my time checking him out. Until, that is, I visited his gallery.
Each piece was so different from what I picture myself creating that I
shouldn't have been impressed at all, yet I was captivated. I still want to
see more of his work.
You've so impressed me that I now need to rethink where I'm heading. I
have the luxury of not having to produce pieces to put a roof over my head,
and I have all the time in the world in which to "get it right" - I am truly
blessed. So its back to the drawing board for me! Geez, just when I
thought I knew path...PLOP! a fork in the road! (-.*)
Sherry Bailey
Yeah, my own problem is too MANY forks in the road -- too many fascinating
side paths, no focus. And in art, I have ALWAYS found it difficult to figure
out what "message" I want to convey, if any. I have too often simply gone for
"pretty" (which is ok in it's own way) rather than tried to convey
something. That's especially hard with polymer clay because the possible
surfaces we can make are so seductive. Mokume gane or some of the faux
techniques or whatever... you can make sheets of essentially "surface" so lush
and gorgeous it's hard to USE them for something... but maybe that's just me!
Sherry (in search of a niche!)
Petunia D
Speaking of serious art mediums, did you know that Chia Pets are made "in the
tradition of great artists"? After my gales of laughter finally faded, I began
to wonder which great artists inspired Chia Pets. Perhaps someone found an
obscure Rembrandt in a damp basement with mold growing on it.... and the Chia
Pet was born!
Tounge firmly in cheek,
-Deedee
Peggy & Bob
Sherry Bailey
Actually, as much as I hate Chia pets, I gotta say that ad kind of cracks me
up! The idea of digging Chia Man out of an archeological dig is just SOOO
silly! (Or maybe we should plant seeds on that King Tut mask??) At least they
realize that the darned things are a joke, and don't take themselves
seriously!
Ch-Ch-Ch-Cheops! ;^)
Sherry
DBuck26803
I love this silly commercial too! Am I the only one to notice a distinct
resemblance between Chia Guy and Bill Clinton? It seems to me that Chia Guy
showed up right after Clinton was elected. Somebody pass me another eggnog!
Jody Bishel
RSPIEGE
Jody Bishel wrote:
>>Am I the only one to notice a distinct
>>resemblance between Chia Guy and Bill Clinton?
And I too love this commercial. It's been fodder for great jokes and greeting
cards. An entire Chia Clinton family would make it complete.
Cheers, Randi