recommendations for a milling machine
ckuefel
newsgroup I've been to.
I am not a machinist, I am more of a tinkerer. Actually, I am an R&D
Technician so prototyping is kind of in my blood. I would like to purchase
a milling machine in the near future for around $1000, maybe on ebay or
something.
Should I try to get a big used one or are mini milling machines okay?
I'm afraid of buying one and finding out that the head is not very stable.
Is it possible to buy something labeled as a "milling machine" and find out
that it is not much more than a drill press?
What about 3 in one machines?
Are there any brands to stay away from?
What about the ones they sell in HarborFreight - "Central Machinery"?
HarborFreight has a lot of cheap stuff and it's hard to tell whether you're
getting a good deal or getting ripped off. Their pneumatic tools seem okay
but does anyone have experience?
I appreciate any feedback and suggestions for furhter reading. I still have
a ton of questions but I'll be happy if i can get a little start here.
Thanks,
Steve
ckuefel
ckuefel <cku...@copper.net> wrote in message
news:twTd9.594$g54.5...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
I forgot to mention what I would be using it for, sorry. Probably small
stuff but I don't like the idea of limiting my capabilities. I would always
prefer bigger. The only projects I have in mind right now are some small
aluminum parts (6"X2" bar stock and a 4"X4"X4" piece)
Thanks again,
Steve
Kevin Thompson
of months now, and I've been quite happy with it. See www.sherline.com
for details. I bought mine through one of their resellers,
http://www.tinkerathome.com/. I bought the 2000A package so I'd have
some tools to use with it. So far, I've made a loom part and a key for
my daughter, but more complex projects beckon.
--
Kevin W. Thompson, Ph.D
"ckuefel" <cku...@copper.net> wrote in message
news:twTd9.594$g54.5...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
Abrasha
>
> You probably get this all the time but I have yet to find an faq for any
> newsgroup I've been to.
>
> I am not a machinist, I am more of a tinkerer. Actually, I am an R&D
> Technician so prototyping is kind of in my blood. I would like to purchase
> a milling machine in the near future for around $1000, maybe on ebay or
> something.
See if you can get yourself a Clausing 8520. I have one, and am very happy with
it. Small machine. 6 x 24" table. Big enough for me.
>
> Should I try to get a big used one or are mini milling machines okay?
> I'm afraid of buying one and finding out that the head is not very stable.
> Is it possible to buy something labeled as a "milling machine" and find out
> that it is not much more than a drill press?
Yes. Milling/drilling machines.
> What about 3 in one machines?
In my opinion these are like sofa beds. You know, those things that make lousy
sofas as well as lousy beds.
> Are there any brands to stay away from?
> What about the ones they sell in HarborFreight - "Central Machinery"?
> HarborFreight has a lot of cheap stuff and it's hard to tell whether you're
> getting a good deal or getting ripped off.
You get exactly what you are paying for. Not a good deal, and you are not
getting ripped off either. It's just plain stupid to expect $10,000 quality for
a $1,000 price.
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
DoN. Nichols
ckuefel <cku...@copper.net> wrote:
>You probably get this all the time but I have yet to find an faq for any
>newsgroup I've been to.
FAQ for this newsgroup hasn't been updated for a while, but look
for Scott Logan's bi-weekly posting of pointers to all the FAQs. Note
that the official FAQ for this newsgroup is *big* and will take quite a
while to download. (One reason that it is no longer posted directly. :-)
>I am not a machinist, I am more of a tinkerer. Actually, I am an R&D
>Technician so prototyping is kind of in my blood. I would like to purchase
>a milling machine in the near future for around $1000, maybe on ebay or
>something.
>
>Should I try to get a big used one or are mini milling machines okay?
It depends on what you are doing. While it is possible to make
cutouts for panel meters in blank rack panel stock with even a Unimat
(really baby machine, and what I used is no longer made), you will find
it a lot nicer to be able to do everything in one setup, which means
that it would be nice to have a bit over 19" X travel, and at least
enough Y travel to get from one edge to the middle for panel height.
(Those are multiples of 1-3/4" IIRC.)
I'm thinking in terms of an Electronic technician, which I was
for quite a while -- then a unix systems admin, and finally retired. If
you are in a different field, the comments about rack panels may not
apply.
Smaller machines have a lack of rigidity, which can result in
the cutter catching, digging in, and snapping.
If everything which you expect to build is smaller than
rack-mount width, figure out what the maximum dimensions of the front
panel will be -- since that is what you want to really make look nice.
>I'm afraid of buying one and finding out that the head is not very stable.
Certainly a possibility.
>Is it possible to buy something labeled as a "milling machine" and find out
>that it is not much more than a drill press?
Yes -- with the additional problem that if you have to change
from smaller to larger cutters enough to require moving the head up to
gain clearance, you will lose your zero reference for the edges, and
have to re-establish that. This is an artifact of the head being
mounted on a round column. A "knee mill" (in which the table is
supported on a knee which can move up and down without losing the zero)
eliminates this problem. There is at least one mill without a knee
which gets around this problem by having a square column. This is the
RF-45 (RF stands for "Rong Fu"). The problem is that it is priced not
too far from a new import knee mill.
>What about 3 in one machines?
Avoid most of these for milling. The problem is that the head
can't go low enough, so you are stuck having to build up supports from
the table to get the workpiece into reach of the cutter. And those
supports have to be rigid too, to avoid introducing other problems.
What I hear about these is that in general, they aren't too bad as a
short bed lathe with fairly large swing (maximum diameter of workpiece),
but are quite a serious compromise as a milling machine.
>Are there any brands to stay away from?
>What about the ones they sell in HarborFreight - "Central Machinery"?
Those are imports -- usually from Mainland China. There are
problems with "fit and finish" on all of the imports -- some worse than
others. The larger the machine, the greater the chance that it is built
for serious work, and therefore the less re-work it will need when you
get it.
But my own preference is used US machines. Some can be quite
affordable, others are a bit steeper. But if you later decide that this
is not for you, you've a better chance of getting back your investment
with a used machine. The downside is that it helps to know more about
the machines to do a better job of evaluating its condition. In any
case, it should cost significantly less than an imported low-budget
machine, and may require just about the same amount of work to get it
into condition to do what you need from it.
A good used import can be nice, too. Emco-Maier lathes (not to
be confused with "Enco"), Deckel, and lots of other top-notch machines
are out there -- but even used the prices tend to be high.
>HarborFreight has a lot of cheap stuff and it's hard to tell whether you're
>getting a good deal or getting ripped off. Their pneumatic tools seem okay
>but does anyone have experience?
My opinions are above on that.
>I appreciate any feedback and suggestions for furhter reading. I still have
>a ton of questions but I'll be happy if i can get a little start here.
If you want to see lots of opinions about import machinery and
3-in-1 machines, do a google search of this newsgroup. It has been
debated to death many times. Such a search will get you the opinions of
those who have burned out on the subject and stopped posting.
Another consideration is that once you have your machine tools,
you will spend something along the same amount again to obtain the
tooling for those tools to make them useful.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Email: <dnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Mike Henry
for a Clausing 8520 or 8530 mill. They're no longer made but are not too
hard to find if one looks for a bit. One in very good shape might run you a
bit more than $1,000, though, and you will also have to factor in tooling
which can easily equal the mill purchase price. There are one or two for
sale in the Chicago area if you happen to be in that neck of the global
woods.
For used, you might also consider Rockwell or the Hardinge horizontal mill
(with a vertical head). These are all about 1/2 to 2/3 the size of a
Bridgeport.
"ckuefel" <cku...@copper.net> wrote in message
news:sATd9.600$g54.5...@newsfeed.slurp.net...
Bruce Simpson
wrote:
>I am not a machinist, I am more of a tinkerer. Actually, I am an R&D
>Technician so prototyping is kind of in my blood. I would like to purchase
>a milling machine in the near future for around $1000, maybe on ebay or
>something.
If you buy new then you know what you're getting and there will be a
warranty.
About three or four years ago I found myself in the same situation as
yourself. I had a small lathe and really needed a mill.
I posted a request for info here and was advised that the Rong Fu 30
mill/drill would probably need my needs.
See: http://aardvark.co.nz/pjet/tools.htm
3-4 years later I'm still more than happy with my purchase.
It's no Bridgeport -- but it was a whole lot cheaper and it's taught
me an awful lot.
>Should I try to get a big used one or are mini milling machines okay?
So long as you've got the space to install it, bigger is better. You
can guarantee that the size of your projects will always grow to match
or slightly exceed the capabilities of your equipment ;-)
Remember that in some respects, having a big mill can compensate for
having a smaller lathe. Since my lathe is just a 7x10" I find myself
using the mill a lot for larger work. Need a 10" diameter flange? No
problems -- the lathe's too small so I just throw the rotary table on
the mill and use that :-)
Having said that it must be acknowledged that the mini-mills are quite
capable little devices (you can even get some of them with R8
spindles! However, they are small and that can be awfully frustrating
at times.
>I'm afraid of buying one and finding out that the head is not very stable.
>Is it possible to buy something labeled as a "milling machine" and find out
>that it is not much more than a drill press?
Yes -- there are some machines out there generally referred to as
"Drill-mills" (as opposed to Mill-drills) which are really little more
than a drill press with an X-Y table attached. Avoid, avoid, avoid!
These things frequently use an MT2 taper on the spindle and don't have
any type of fine control of the Z (downfeed) axis.
For just a little extra money you can buy a "real" entry-level mill
such as the mini-mill, an RF20 or an RF30/31.
>What about 3 in one machines?
Some people swear by them -- most swear at them :-) In most cases
they are giant compromise, offering the worst of all worlds.
Remember that (especially in the case of milling), a huge percentage
of the time taken to perform a job is taken up with the set-up.
Because a 3-in-1 requires you to share parts of the machine between
lathe, mill and drilling functions, this set-up time is often
increased even further - especially if you have to alternate back and
forth from milling to turning or v/v.
>Are there any brands to stay away from?
>What about the ones they sell in HarborFreight - "Central Machinery"?
>HarborFreight has a lot of cheap stuff and it's hard to tell whether you're
>getting a good deal or getting ripped off. Their pneumatic tools seem okay
>but does anyone have experience?
Check out the Yahoo groups called 7x10minilathe and mill_drill:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/7x10minilathe/
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/mill_drill/
The first one deals with the 7x10/7x12 minilathe and MiniMill units
sold by Harbor Freight, Grizzly, Homier and a number of other vendors.
The second deals (mainly) with the RF20 and RF30 mill-drill units.
Trawl through the archived messages on these groups and you'll find
more information than you'd have dreamed possible.
>I appreciate any feedback and suggestions for furhter reading. I still have
>a ton of questions but I'll be happy if i can get a little start here.
I hope this is as helpful to you as the advice I received here was to
me.
----
I can be contacted via http://aardvark.co.nz/contact/
6e70
basically two sizes, based on column diameter. You can get a new one
in the smaller size (3.5") for that money, or a used one in the larger
(4.5"). If you use it for a while and want to sell it, you will get
at least 1/2 to 2/3 of your money back. Chances are, you will not
want to sell it. I have a couple of Bridgeport mills downtown, but I
have a Jet mill/drill at home. I wouldn't want to be without it.
Mill/drills are in more home shops than all other forms of mill
combined. There's alot of talk of how hard it is to re-register a
mill/drill if you need to move the head up or down. But the fact is,
you set it up within the range of operation when you mount your work,
and in practice, seldom have to change it. For small parts at home
re-registration just isn't that big a deal. For economic reasons,
stick with an R8 spindle.
Paul
Artemia Salina
I'd have to recommend a used American made horizontal miller with a vertical
head attachment. I'm expecting a Hardinge "Universal" milling machine to
be delivered here this coming Tuesday. Since it hasn't arrived yet I can't
give you a review of it, but some of its advantages, from what I've read,
are that its a relatively small machine, yet ridgid enough to compete with
Bridgeport-type machines with respect to cutting ability (rate of metal
removal), and plus, well, its a Hardinge, which IMO are works of art.
I paid roughly $1500 for mine, plus shipping, and after hearing from others
about it, I think that price is a little high, even though it comes with a dozen
4C collets and a 1/2" Jacobs drill chuck on a 4C arbor (4C collets can be somewhat
expensive unless you're lucky).
There are other brands of used American horizontal millers (which have vertical
head attachments) that are in the same size range and with the same abilities as
the Hardinge.
From photos, the Van Norman #12 (a little smaller than a Bridgeport) is one
of the finest examples I've seen. Rather than having a removable vertical
head, it has one that swivels from horizontal to vertical position. This
eliminates lifting and possibly dropping the head when switching between
modes. Nice big hand wheels too, from the photos I've seen.
For a great page on the Van Norman machines, check out John Kasunich's web
site:
http://home.att.net/~JEKasunich/vannorman/VN_Home.htm
To say that this class of machines is like a mill/drill on steroids is a gross
understatement, but its the only analogy that I can come up with for those
who are unfamiliar with them, but have considered getting a mill/drill.
Very definately, if you're considering a mill/drill, look for a small sized
used horizontal miller w/ vertical head instead. Prices are comparable, sizes
are in the same class, but quality and features are worlds apart.
Just say "no" to Chinesium!
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Martin VanMeter
> I am not a machinist, I am more of a tinkerer. Actually, I am an R&D
> Technician so prototyping is kind of in my blood. I would like to purchase
> a milling machine in the near future for around $1000, maybe on ebay or
> something.
>
I own a Central Machinery 2119 mill/drill (that is Harbor Freights
version of the Taiwanese Rong Fu RF-31). Great mill/drill, but sadly
no longer sold by HF, they have replaced it with a slightly lower end
version made in China. You can do a lot of work on a decent
mill/drill, BUT, it is a 2nd choice to a mid size knee mill like a
Clausing or Rockwell.
A new mill/drill just appeared in a Wholesale Tool catalog
(www.wttool.com). It is a gear head mill/drill on a dovetailed
rectangular column with a table that can "swivel" about the z-axis -
$1,600 +/-. I don't know anything about it, but it does look
interesting and addresses the problems associated with a round column
mill/drill, like loseing your index if you have to move the head up or
down.
just some thoughts, good luck on your search