Checking welding current
SteveB
reassembling according to the wind speed over the next couple of weeks.
When I get the old gal running, I'd like to do a check on the output through
the leads.
Would I do this with a helper and an amp clamp? Set it up to weld, and then
weld with a helper watching an amp clamp on the lead? Is there another type
of tester I should use just on the main lugs off the machine? I'm just
trying to see if the output is good, and is within the range of the controls
indicate. I will be using 50' leads of #1 cable on each leg. I will be
using 7018 1/8" rod in the flat position, and making a dime size pool, and
trying to burn thirty seconds per setting. Stinger positive.
Does this sound like a plausible idea? Other suggestions, caveats, tips,
procedures or whatever appreciated.
Thanks.
Steve
Gunner
wrote:
Unless you have a DC amp clamp..you cant do it. Most ammeters using
inductince to read current, are AC only. Your machine is DC only.
Put a volt meter across the leads, see what it says. Have your helper
read it while welding.
Frankly..I consider the dials on most welders to be only a a way to
figure out what the needle was pointing at the last time it worked
good. Then I use a grease pencil to make a mark for the size/type of
rod it worked well at.
Now there is "shunt ammeters" but I dont have a clue how to hook one
up for your rig.
Just wire wheel some of your scrap, grab a mixture of rod, and burn
it. Set it at what the dial says..then adjust up or down as needed for
each rod.
Gunner
Bob Engelhardt
> Unless you have a DC amp clamp..you cant do it. Most ammeters using
My Fluke does DC amps. Has a "Max" mode too, where it remembers the max
current - you wouldn't need a helper to read the meter while you're welding.
Bob
Jim Wilkins
> ..., I'd like to do a check on the output through
> the leads.
>
> Would I do this with a helper and an amp clamp? Set it up to weld, and then
> weld with a helper watching an amp clamp on the lead? Is there another type
> of tester I should use just on the main lugs off the machine? I'm just
> trying to see if the output is good, and is within the range of the controls
> indicate. I will be using 50' leads of #1 cable on each leg. I will be
> using 7018 1/8" rod in the flat position, and making a dime size pool, and
> trying to burn thirty seconds per setting. Stinger positive.
>
> Does this sound like a plausible idea? Other suggestions, caveats, tips,
> procedures or whatever appreciated.
>
> Thanks.
>
> Steve
You could use an automotive starting/charging current meter, which is
a simple DC magnetic meter with grooves on the back for the wire. They
aren't very accurate but you just place it on the lead. The one I have
reads charging current to 75A with 5A graduations, or 400A starting
current to 25A.
6013 or 7014 rod (and maybe 7018, haven't tried it) will weld by
itself if laid flat on the work, then you could let go and read the
meter.
I'd be more concerned with maximum AC line current.
Jim Wilkins
Pete C.
I found a rather nice hall effect AC/DC clamp probe by TPI at FRy's for
about $60 (plug into any DMM), and it's rated for 1,600A AC / 2,000A DC.
A whole lot cheaper than the Fluke equivalent and seems to work just
fine.
Pilgrim
these are 50 millivolts. You will need a meter movement and a shunt
covering the maximum current you will be reading. The shunt should be
placed in series with either welder lead observing the polarity from the
welder, shunt and meter movement. This will be the most accurate, but a
clamp on attachment to a DVM, as others have suggested, should be quite
adequate.
Chuck P.
Ignoramus10476
the lowest voltage scale (2000 mV in my case).
These shunts are not very expensive.
If you know the gauge and exact length of your cables, you can short
your welder through those cables and measure voltage drop, and arrive
at a fairly good current number based on resistance of cable of your
gauge.
i
SteveB
"Jim Wilkins" <KB1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:947692e0-f873-4d5b...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
Jim Wilkins
This machine is DC only.
Steve
Wes
Have you ever tried to open the clamp while measuring heavy dc current?
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Tom M
"Ignoramus10476" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10476.invalid> wrote in message
news:e9udnbCQc4wgy3Pa...@giganews.com...
>>
> If you know the gauge and exact length of your cables, you can short
> your welder through those cables and measure voltage drop, and arrive
> at a fairly good current number based on resistance of cable of your
> gauge.
>
voltage drop just across the work lead. Measure the length, look up the
resistance of that size cable and calculate the current. Note the temp of
the cable and correct for that for more accuracy.
Easy, cheap, and accurate.
Gunner
wrote:
Really? Fry's Electronics
Big box store to the nerds?
Ill check there myself. Id like to have one.
Gunner
Don Foreman
wrote:
>I'm picking up the radiator for the SA 200 Monday, and will be painting and
Your 50 feet of #1 copper lead would have a resistance of about .0063
ohms, so it will display a drop of 6.3 millivolts per amp.
Use a voltmeter on a low-volts scale to measure the voltage from end
to end of the 50 ft cable while welding. Amps will be
volts / .0063 or volts * 159.
Jim Wilkins
> "Jim Wilkins" <KB1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> news:947692e0-f873-4d5b...@c65g2000hsa.googlegroups.com...
> On Mar 29, 2:29 am, "SteveB" <oldf...@flatulence.com> wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
> > ..., I'd like to do a check on the output through
> > the leads.
>
> > Would I do this with a helper and an amp clamp? Set it up to weld, and
> > then
> > weld with a helper watching an amp clamp on the lead? Is there another
> > type
> > of tester I should use just on the main lugs off the machine? I'm just
> > trying to see if the output is good, and is within the range of the
> > controls
> > indicate. I will be using 50' leads of #1 cable on each leg. I will be
> > using 7018 1/8" rod in the flat position, and making a dime size pool, and
> > trying to burn thirty seconds per setting. Stinger positive.
>
> > Does this sound like a plausible idea? Other suggestions, caveats, tips,
> > procedures or whatever appreciated.
>
> > Thanks.
>
> > Steve
>
> You could use an automotive starting/charging current meter, which is
> a simple DC magnetic meter with grooves on the back for the wire. They
> aren't very accurate but you just place it on the lead. The one I have
> reads charging current to 75A with 5A graduations, or 400A starting
> current to 25A.
>
> 6013 or 7014 rod (and maybe 7018, haven't tried it) will weld by
> itself if laid flat on the work, then you could let go and read the
> meter.
>
> I'd be more concerned with maximum AC line current.
>
> Jim Wilkins
>
> This machine is DC only.
So is car starter current.
If it welds OK with the largest appropriate rod, it's working
properly.
Jim Wilkins
Ignoramus10476
That's a good idea. Voltage drop may be about 1 v olt, easily
measurable with good accuracy. There are ohms per foot tables for
various gauges. Attaching one
i
AWG Wire Table for BARE COPPER Wire Compiled by a program written by Fr. Tom McGahee
Compiled by Fr. Tom McGahee tom_m...@sigmais.com
Permission granted to copy freely so long as credit line above is included
AWG = American Wire Gauge size
Dia-mils = Diameter in mils (1 mil = .001 inch)
TPI = Turns Per Inch (Ignoring thickness of unknown insulation)
Dia-mm = Diameter in millimeters (For comparison with non-USA coilers)
Circ-mils = Circular Mils. (circular mils = diameter in mils squared)
Ohms/Kft = Ohms Per 1,000 Feet
Ft/Ohm = Feet Per Ohm
Ft/Lb = Feet Per Pound
Ohms/Lb = Ohms Per Pound
Lb/Kft = Pounds Per 1,000 Feet
NormAmps = Normal Average Amp Capacity based on 500 circular mils per Amp
MaxAmps = Maximum recommended Average Amp Capacity in Open Air based on 438.489 circular mils per Amp
Actual Amp capacity of a wire depends on form factor and method of cooling!
MaxAmps assumes free flow of air around wire. Do NOT exceed this maximum without cooling!
Wire wrapped in a coil or without any form of cooling may over-heat at MaxAmps!
Many factors govern the ACTUAL Max Amps you can pass through a wire continuously. Be careful!
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
0000 459.99 2.1740 11.684 211592 0.0490 20402 1.5613 0.0001 640.48 423.18 482.55
000 409.63 2.4412 10.405 167800 0.0618 16180 1.9688 0.0001 507.93 335.60 382.68
00 364.79 2.7413 9.2657 133072 0.0779 12831 2.4826 0.0002 402.80 266.14 303.48
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
0 324.85 3.0783 8.2513 105531 0.0983 10175 3.1305 0.0003 319.44 211.06 240.67
1 289.29 3.4567 7.3480 83690 0.1239 8069.5 3.9475 0.0005 253.33 167.38 190.86
2 257.62 3.8817 6.5436 66369 0.1563 6399.4 4.9777 0.0008 200.90 132.74 151.36
3 229.42 4.3588 5.8272 52633 0.1970 5075.0 6.2767 0.0012 159.32 105.27 120.03
4 204.30 4.8947 5.1893 41740 0.2485 4024.7 7.9148 0.0020 126.35 83.480 95.190
5 181.94 5.4964 4.6212 33101 0.3133 3191.7 9.9804 0.0031 100.20 66.203 75.489
6 162.02 6.1721 4.1153 26251 0.3951 2531.1 12.585 0.0050 79.460 52.501 59.866
7 144.28 6.9308 3.6648 20818 0.4982 2007.3 15.869 0.0079 63.014 41.635 47.476
8 128.49 7.7828 3.2636 16509 0.6282 1591.8 20.011 0.0126 49.973 33.018 37.650
9 114.42 8.7396 2.9063 13092 0.7921 1262.4 25.233 0.0200 39.630 26.185 29.858
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
10 101.90 9.8140 2.5881 10383 0.9989 1001.1 31.819 0.0318 31.428 20.765 23.678
11 90.741 11.020 2.3048 8233.9 1.2596 793.93 40.122 0.0505 24.924 16.468 18.778
12 80.807 12.375 2.0525 6529.8 1.5883 629.61 50.593 0.0804 19.765 13.060 14.892
13 71.961 13.896 1.8278 5178.3 2.0028 499.31 63.797 0.1278 15.675 10.357 11.810
14 64.083 15.605 1.6277 4106.6 2.5255 395.97 80.447 0.2031 12.431 8.2132 9.3654
15 57.067 17.523 1.4495 3256.7 3.1845 314.02 101.44 0.3230 9.8579 6.5134 7.4271
16 50.820 19.677 1.2908 2582.7 4.0156 249.03 127.91 0.5136 7.8177 5.1654 5.8900
17 45.257 22.096 1.1495 2048.2 5.0636 197.49 161.30 0.8167 6.1997 4.0963 4.6709
18 40.302 24.813 1.0237 1624.3 6.3851 156.62 203.39 1.2986 4.9166 3.2485 3.7042
19 35.890 27.863 0.9116 1288.1 8.0514 124.20 256.47 2.0648 3.8991 2.5762 2.9376
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
20 31.961 31.288 0.8118 1021.5 10.153 98.496 323.41 3.2832 3.0921 2.0430 2.3296
21 28.462 35.134 0.7229 810.10 12.802 78.111 407.81 5.2205 2.4521 1.6202 1.8475
22 25.346 39.453 0.6438 642.44 16.143 61.945 514.23 8.3009 1.9446 1.2849 1.4651
23 22.572 44.304 0.5733 509.48 20.356 49.125 648.44 13.199 1.5422 1.0190 1.1619
24 20.101 49.750 0.5106 404.03 25.669 38.958 817.66 20.987 1.2230 0.8081 0.9214
25 17.900 55.866 0.4547 320.41 32.368 30.895 1031.1 33.371 0.9699 0.6408 0.7307
26 15.940 62.733 0.4049 254.10 40.815 24.501 1300.1 53.061 0.7692 0.5082 0.5795
27 14.195 70.445 0.3606 201.51 51.467 19.430 1639.4 84.371 0.6100 0.4030 0.4596
28 12.641 79.105 0.3211 159.80 64.898 15.409 2067.3 134.15 0.4837 0.3196 0.3644
29 11.257 88.830 0.2859 126.73 81.835 12.220 2606.8 213.31 0.3836 0.2535 0.2890
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
30 10.025 99.750 0.2546 100.50 103.19 9.6906 3287.1 339.18 0.3042 0.2010 0.2292
31 8.9276 112.01 0.2268 79.702 130.12 7.6850 4145.0 539.32 0.2413 0.1594 0.1818
32 7.9503 125.78 0.2019 63.207 164.08 6.0945 5226.7 857.55 0.1913 0.1264 0.1441
33 7.0799 141.24 0.1798 50.125 206.90 4.8332 6590.8 1363.6 0.1517 0.1003 0.1143
34 6.3048 158.61 0.1601 39.751 260.90 3.8329 8310.8 2168.1 0.1203 0.0795 0.0907
35 5.6146 178.11 0.1426 31.524 328.99 3.0396 10480 3447.5 0.0954 0.0630 0.0719
36 5.0000 200.00 0.1270 25.000 414.85 2.4105 13215 5481.7 0.0757 0.0500 0.0570
37 4.4526 224.59 0.1131 19.826 523.11 1.9116 16663 8716.2 0.0600 0.0397 0.0452
38 3.9652 252.20 0.1007 15.723 659.63 1.5160 21012 13859 0.0476 0.0314 0.0359
39 3.5311 283.20 0.0897 12.469 831.78 1.2022 26496 22037 0.0377 0.0249 0.0284
AWG Dia-mils TPI Dia-mm Circ-mils Ohms/Kft Ft/Ohm Ft/Lb Ohms/Lb Lb/Kft NormAmps MaxAmps
40 3.1445 318.01 0.0799 9.8880 1048.9 0.9534 33410 35040 0.0299 0.0198 0.0226
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Index(es):
Main
Thread
Pete C.
Yep. Bright yellow case unit. They have a couple models that look
superficially the same, two are AC only and the third is AC/DC and has
the extra DC zero knob on it. It also apparently was rated something
like 800A, but subsequently upgraded with stickers on the package to the
1,600A AC / 2,000A DC rating.
Ernie Leimkuhler
"SteveB" <old...@flatulence.com> wrote:
I have an Extech Ammeter that reads AC and DC amps.
It cost me $85 at Fry's Electronics.
It works great, and is fairly compact.
Bob Engelhardt
> "Ignoramus10476" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10476.invalid> wrote in message
> This is really good advise. I would get an analog voltmeter and measure the
> voltage drop just across the work lead. ...
> Easy, cheap, and accurate.
Cheap, for sure. Not as easy as an ammeter. Not very much accurate,
I'd say. You have unknown accuracy in the wire guage, unknown
resistance in the cable connections and in the clamps. Analog meters
are hard to read precisely and are only accurate to a couple of percent.
Bob
And don't start with "The OP doesn't need more accuracy than that". I'm
responding to the statement that it would be "accurate".
Tom M
"Bob Engelhardt" <bobeng...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:KJOdnUQvBI58GnPa...@comcast.com...
And a couple of percent isn't accurate enough for a stick welder?
How about the digital clamp on ammeter working with the high RF environment
of an arc?
Who said the measurement would be made beyond the connectors? You?
Four place resistance figures for the cable aren't accurate enough? Its
easy to see an analog meter and integrate out all the variations with an
unstable DC arc. Seems you have never tried to measure the current of a DC
welder.
Stop picking nits.
Tom
Bob Engelhardt
> And a couple of percent isn't accurate enough for a stick welder?
>
> How about the digital clamp on ammeter working with the high RF environment
> of an arc?
>
> Who said the measurement would be made beyond the connectors? You?
>
> Four place resistance figures for the cable aren't accurate enough? Its
> easy to see an analog meter and integrate out all the variations with an
> unstable DC arc. Seems you have never tried to measure the current of a DC
> welder.
>
> Stop picking nits.
Jeez, calm down.
Michael A. Terrell
Gunner wrote:
>
> Really? Fry's Electronics
> Big box store to the nerds?
>
> Ill check there myself. Id like to have one.
Why do you want a nerd? Cats are a lot easier to take care of. ;-)
--
aioe.org is home to cowards and terrorists
Add this line to your news proxy nfilter.dat file
* drop Path:*aioe.org!not-for-mail to drop all aioe.org traffic.
Tom M
Sorry. forgot the :)
Ignoramus10476
> Tom M wrote:
>> "Ignoramus10476" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10476.invalid> wrote in message
>> ... cables and measure voltage drop,...
>
>> This is really good advise. I would get an analog voltmeter and measure the
>> voltage drop just across the work lead. ...
>
>> Easy, cheap, and accurate.
>
> Cheap, for sure. Not as easy as an ammeter. Not very much accurate,
> I'd say. You have unknown accuracy in the wire guage, unknown
> resistance in the cable connections and in the clamps. Analog meters
> are hard to read precisely and are only accurate to a couple of percent.
You need to measure from lug to lug. A couple of percent accuracy is
more than appropriate.
i
Don Foreman
You could make one for well under 10 bux. You'd need to calibrate it.
Might not be quite as accurate as a commercial instrument, though most
DC amp clamps aren't all that accurate either. Ya don't usually need
to know welding current to 1%. 5% or even 10% is probably often
close enough.
Some minor metalworking required, and you'd need to stick 3 or 4
electronic parts together.
The clamp ring could easily be tailored to have a max range of 200
amps, 500 amps or 1000 amps just by changing the width of an air gap.
Linear Hall sensors are available for $1.26 from Digi-Key.
http://search.digikey.com/scripts/DkSearch/dksus.dll?Detail?name=620-1020-ND
A Hall sensor produces a voltage proportional to a magnetic field,
which in turn is proportional to current flowing thru a wire that is
encircled with an iron or steel structure. The steel structure might
be an openable (hinged) ring maybe 1" ID and 2" OD (or whatever) with
an air gap. The hall sensor goes in the air gap, perhaps surrounded
with aluminum, brass, plastic or epoxy so the air gap is the same
every time. Turns out the permeability of the iron or steel really
doesn't matter much at all, and since you're interested in DC it
wouldn't need to be laminations. Solid mild (soft) steel or iron
should work fine.
The elex parts might be the little Hall sensor, a 5-volt regulator
as LM78L05 (about 40 cents), a small cap and a 9-volt battery. You'd
measure the output voltage with an ordinary DVM.
On the other hand, time is money and 60 bux ain't much of it.
Don Foreman
The ExTech MA220 400A AC/DC digital clamp meter is spec'd with
accuracy of +/- 3.5% + 6 digits in the region between 300 and 400
amps, +/- 2.5% + 6 digits from 0 to 300 amps.
RoyJ
cable. Just clamp one voltmeter probe onto either the stinger or ground
clamp, the other voltmeter probe onto the other end of the same cable.
You can extend the voltmeter probes using any wire that is handy. The
voltmeter draws negligible current so the voltage drop in the probe
wires is negligible.
You should check the current at several points in the scale. Be prepared
for some funny readings. It's unlikely that the actual current is as
nicely behaved as the settings on the panel would suggest.
Martin H. Eastburn
watch... cut the lead, make two lugs to the ends and use the lugs to attach
to the ammeter. When not using that - one could get a conduit box or the like
and have the two wires coming on either end and the lugs bolted together and
taped...
Good (there are inexpensive ones that are good enough) clamp meters now use
Hall effect devices to measure DC. Many AC ones do as well.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
@ home at Lions' Lair with our computer lionslair at consolidated dot net
TSRA, Endowed; NRA LOH & Patron Member, Golden Eagle, Patriot's Medal.
NRA Second Amendment Task Force Charter Founder
IHMSA and NRA Metallic Silhouette maker & member.
http://lufkinced.com/
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Richard J Kinch
> Would I do this with a helper and an amp clamp?
Auto parts stores have an inexpensive DC ammeter you just hold over the
lead. Used for measuring starter current draws.
Bruce L. Bergman
Yeah they work, but they are not very accurate - that's why they are
cheap, they are only accurate enough for the intended job. Within 25
amps either way is plenty close enough to find a bad starter...
If you want something halfway accurate and repeatable (and perhaps
even with traceable metrology calibration) you'll need either a
Hall-effect clamp-amp that reads DC Current (or an accessory clamp
with a good multimeter), or an inline shunt and meter movement set.
--<< Bruce >>--
SteveB
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <stage...@mindspring.com> wrote
>
> I have an Extech Ammeter that reads AC and DC amps.
> It cost me $85 at Fry's Electronics.
>
> It works great, and is fairly compact.
I'm actually not as concerned about the exact number output as much as I
want to know if this old machine will still weld what I want to burn long
enough to pay for itself, and get me going without having to fork over twice
as much for a new one.
Since I'm getting replies all over the map on this one, I have decided to do
the following:
Get some of the rods of diameters I'm going to be welding with. 7018, 6010
and 6011, 1/8" and 3/32". Set the settings at the suggested amperage.
Weld, and see how they run. Then intentionally crank the settings up or
down from the accepted parameters, and see how they act.
I got back home today after a few days in Gomorrah taking care of some
things. I'll go pick up the radiator tomorrow, and if this wind will stop
for a few days, I'll get old Sally painted. In the meantime, there's power
washing at the car wash, WetOrDry sanding, and getting some new medium grade
bolts to put all the shrouding back on. (They had put it all back on with
soft Home Depot grade bolts.) Maybe make the tumbler for the gas tank out
of the barbecue spit turner I have .......... something to burn up a few
days of doodling.
Put it up on blocks and maybe go get some new tires. Get a new tongue where
the lock for the ball works. Torch off the old one. Look for some fenders
locally, although Northern Tools have some I like that have skirts in the
back that would bolt on better. Locate some decent lights. Send off for an
official Lincoln decal package.
I'm having some fun getting this old bucket running again. Pictures will be
available when I'm done. I'm into it about $800 right now.
Steve
Ignoramus7016
great time welding 1/8" 7018 at 125 amp setting, especially horizontal.
If that is the case, I would say, to hell with shunts and ammeters.
i
Don Foreman
Bottom line is how she runs regardless of what meters might indicate.
You need no book nor meter to know when a welder is running right or
not.
Gunner Asch
<pittma...@henderson.com> wrote:
>Since I'm getting replies all over the map on this one, I have decided to do
>the following:
>
>Get some of the rods of diameters I'm going to be welding with. 7018, 6010
>and 6011, 1/8" and 3/32". Set the settings at the suggested amperage.
>Weld, and see how they run. Then intentionally crank the settings up or
>down from the accepted parameters, and see how they act.
You are welcome.
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
SteveB
"Don Foreman" <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote in message
news:bso3v3dm41fb3g1q7...@4ax.com...
Hold your phone calls, folks. We have a winner!
I used to get applicants for welding jobs. I'd take them to the shop, turn
the dials on the machines, give them some metal, and tell them how I wanted
it welded. Most came back saying how there was something wrong with the
machine. Some came back with the metal welded up. You could put the
symbols in Fijiian, and a real weldor would figure it out.
Steve
Private
"SteveB" <pittma...@henderson.com> wrote in message
news:i8m8c5-...@news.infowest.com...
> I'm actually not as concerned about the exact number output as much as I
> want to know if this old machine will still weld what I want to burn long
> enough to pay for itself, and get me going without having to fork over
> twice as much for a new one.
>
> Since I'm getting replies all over the map on this one, I have decided to
> do the following:
>
> Get some of the rods of diameters I'm going to be welding with. 7018,
> 6010 and 6011, 1/8" and 3/32". Set the settings at the suggested
> amperage. Weld, and see how they run. Then intentionally crank the
> settings up or down from the accepted parameters, and see how they act.
This is a very reasonable plan and something you will need to do anyway to
learn the capabilities and character of your individual machine. I think
you are cutting yourself short thought, as these machines are also very good
with 5/32" xx10 & xx18 and will run 3/16 well (but with the rain hat
straight up and obviously using lots of power (& gas)). Testing should
really be done over the full range of output but especially at the higher
and lower end.
I suggest that you will find that most heavy work can be done faster and
with much less distortion by using bigger rods whenever suitable. These
bigger rods are often available (free) after questionable exposures to air &
moisture, see the earlier thread subject 'drying E7018'. Bigger rods also
tend to lay down smoother better appearing beads, (especially horizontal
fillets) and usually it is easier to remove the flux and are less likely to
suffer from flux or rust inclusions when welding dirty or rusty steel.
I quite like to use very small (1/16 or 5/64) 6013 for very light work. I
suggest you buy a small box and sub-package the rods using heavy sealable
plastic freezer bags as even a small box has more rods than you will use for
a long time.
I suggest you will find this is a sweet and very versitile machine with lots
of range.
> I got back home today after a few days in Gomorrah taking care of some
> things. I'll go pick up the radiator tomorrow, and if this wind will stop
> for a few days, I'll get old Sally painted. In the meantime, there's
> power washing at the car wash, WetOrDry sanding, and getting some new
> medium grade bolts to put all the shrouding back on. (They had put it all
> back on with soft Home Depot grade bolts.) Maybe make the tumbler for the
> gas tank out of the barbecue spit turner I have .......... something to
> burn up a few days of doodling.
Good quality bolts (and lock waskers, as you discovered) are cheap
innsurance. They are also much less likely to strip the threads out of
older parts, I suggest you also check the heads of the other bolts such as
the water pump or manifolds to see if they have been replaced with soft
ungraded hardware store bolts.
snip
>Send off for an official Lincoln decal package.
This and the right color of (good quality) grey paint will make Sally look
like new.
> I'm having some fun getting this old bucket running again. Pictures will
> be available when I'm done. I'm into it about $800 right now.
I still think you have found a great value, and a machine that should last
you a long time and allow you to do some good work. IMHO you should NEVER
(EVER) use it for thawing pipes.
Good luck.
SteveB
"Private" <ple...@dont.bother> wrote in message
news:fstkeh$b3s$1...@aioe.org...
I was a steel erection contractor for nine years. The main thing I learned
was " stick with the gravy jobs."
I could make more by going out and repairing a gate than I could by building
it from scratch. And only have a couple of hours and one trip in it. I do
not want to get into this as a full time job, but rather a sideline where I
can work when I want and don't have to feed the overhead monster that is
created when a business is started. My wife and I were talking about it
yesterday (she was a CPA), and besides putting the dba under the umbrella of
one of our LLCs, we will probably only get handyman licenses, worker's comp
and liability insurance.
I can't lift a lot any more. I was an Offshore Petroleum Institute
certified rigger, crane operator, able bodied seaman, crane operator, and
had OSHA sponsored courses in rigging all along the way. Still, one has to
rig all that stuff up, and move it around. And usually it's harder when
others present haven't got a clue and either watch you bust butt, or just
watch, or worse yet, try to help. I want to stick to smaller stuff that I
can fix in place, or bring to my home shop and buzz up on the wirefeed. The
low work higher hourly rate jobs.
As it goes, I'm sure I'll make adjustments as I don't like to pass on jobs
that are good money even though I may have to go buy some bigger rods or
some of this and that. I do like the round threaded containers with the
gaskets that one can put a few pounds of rods in, and keep them dry, and not
carry the whole 50#. We do get a bit more rain here than I am used to in my
other location, so will have to protect accordingly. A new toolbox,
probably diamond plate aluminum, is on the horizon. Then I'll make hose
hangers and other goodies to keep my stuff straight on the trailer, and make
locking straps to keep the riffraff from bothering it.
Well, time to go to the big city and pick up the radiator, sandpaper, decal
pack, and fasteners. Not sure how it is where you are, but spring has
sprung here, but we are still having occasional cool windy days, and today
is one of those. A good day for parts chasing.
Film at eleven.
Steve
Private
> I was a steel erection contractor for nine years. The main thing I
> learned was " stick with the gravy jobs."
Keep your eye on the money, anyone can buy themself work.
> I could make more by going out and repairing a gate than I could by
> building it from scratch. And only have a couple of hours and one trip in
> it. I do not want to get into this as a full time job, but rather a
> sideline where I can work when I want and don't have to feed the overhead
> monster that is created when a business is started. My wife and I were
> talking about it yesterday (she was a CPA), and besides putting the dba
> under the umbrella of one of our LLCs, we will probably only get handyman
> licenses, worker's comp and liability insurance.
It can often be good to hire on as an employee (or part time contract
employee), get your employer to pay for all consumables, licences,
Worker'sComp and PLPD and do the paperwork AND THE ACTS-REC and you may also
get other H&W and unemployment benefits. You can then rent out your rig for
you to use on the same job as a sideline rental business. This is
especially good if the job is union. I do not know what the tradesman
shortage is like where you are but qualified people who can and will work
are in very short supply in my area and the rates charged by rental shops
for a welder, torch and tools is quite sufficient to give a good profit.
One of the side benefits is that you always come home with a full tank of
gas and usually much other stuff. AFAIK, You can still claim your expenses
as deductions from total income as long as you (not your LLC) do the
renting, YMMV. Your background may result in a foreman or leadhand position
and you may be able to rent your rig as more of a perk and you may not even
need to do much with it.
> I can't lift a lot any more. I was an Offshore Petroleum Institute
> certified rigger, crane operator, able bodied seaman, crane operator, and
> had OSHA sponsored courses in rigging all along the way. Still, one has
> to rig all that stuff up, and move it around. And usually it's harder
> when others present haven't got a clue and either watch you bust butt, or
> just watch, or worse yet, try to help. I want to stick to smaller stuff
> that I can fix in place, or bring to my home shop and buzz up on the
> wirefeed. The low work higher hourly rate jobs.
Where I work, the tradesman shortage means that trained older people are
normally given a younger helper (or two or more) to do ALL the grunt work
lifting and grinding. We have paid our dues working hard and now it is a
case of finding the 'lazy' guy (me) and putting him in charge as he will
find the 'easy' and MUCH more importantly SAFE way to get the job done.
Where I run cranes, the basic qualification is grey hair. Employers will no
longer tolerate unsafe operations and the days of expecting accidents and
injuries is long gone.
The great wages paid by the big jobs have sucked the pool of trained labor
dry and even the local small customers and companies have learned they need
to pay top wages to attract trained people and that their apprentices only
stay until they get qualifications to let them go to bigger money jobs.
This has created opportunities at the local level. Don't sell yourself
short, you are not looking for callbacks, get the maximum return from EVERY
job. IMHO, Do not expect customer loyalty.
> As it goes, I'm sure I'll make adjustments as I don't like to pass on jobs
> that are good money even though I may have to go buy some bigger rods or
> some of this and that. I do like the round threaded containers with the
> gaskets that one can put a few pounds of rods in, and keep them dry, and
> not carry the whole 50#.
Big rods (and gasoline and especially OA are expensive and you can go though
them in a hurry on a big job. Many people have abandoned the flat hourly
rate inluding consumables pricing model and now price as hourly labor +
daily equipment rental + ALL CONSUMABLES EXTRA. It makes your base rate
look very competative but prevents the situation where you only get called
for the high consumable cost jobs.
> We do get a bit more rain here than I am used to in my other location, so
> will have to protect accordingly. A new toolbox, probably diamond plate
> aluminum, is on the horizon. Then I'll make hose hangers and other
> goodies to keep my stuff straight on the trailer, and make locking straps
> to keep the riffraff from bothering it.
CAUTION, It is tough to secure a trailer against theft as they are quick and
easy to just lift onto a truck with a small picker and welding equipement is
easy to fence no questions asked.
> Well, time to go to the big city and pick up the radiator, sandpaper,
> decal pack, and fasteners. Not sure how it is where you are, but spring
> has sprung here, but we are still having occasional cool windy days, and
> today is one of those. A good day for parts chasing.
A good clean rig is the best advertising you can have. The tools a
tradesman uses tell a LOT about the kind of job he will do.
Good luck, YMMV
SteveB
"Private" <ple...@dont.bother> wrote
some good stuff ......
You seem to be quite an experienced hand. Could you please give me a
thumbnail of your experience?
Steve
Private
I admit (and claim) that I have been to lots of rodeos, but.......
We earn our credibility here not by the qualifications we claim, but rather
by the knowledge and wisdom we express. Many of us sig our comments with
'just our .02' (which may be an exaggeration), or qualify our statements
that they are 'worth what the reader paid for them' which may be closer to
the truth. Each of us must apply tests of truth and reasonableness to
everything we read here and elsewhere both on the net and especially in the
MSMedia. Mark Twain said "A man who does not read the newspaper is
uninformed, but a man who does is misinformed."
IMHO, my credentials and experience validate my suggestions here, but since
I appreciate that this is a very public (and permanent) forum, and I
therefore choose to conserve and protect my privacy, that it is incumbent on
each reader to make their own judgments.
We are all students in life and I appreciate the knowledge that is
contributed here and find it a great source for URL links to other
information on a wide range of personal interests. My humble scribblings
here are just an attempt to participate and contribute as thanks for
information that I have received.
Happy trails,
SteveB
"Private" <ple...@dont.bother> wrote in message
Thanks. You just make relative and pertinent contributions that seem to be
based on good experience. I have always appreciated working with good hands
(workmen), and valued their information and insight, even though I wouldn't
invite a lot of them home for dinner, nor want to introduce them to my
sister.
Steve
Private
Thanks for the compliment; I hope my suggestions are helpful.
Work safely,