Use for a broken bandsaw blade??

[pyotr filipivich]

Greetings all
Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits
into router irons, I have two questions:
1) "What was I thinking?"
2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
knife blade.

Any ideas for "alternative" uses?
--
pyotr filipivich.
Discussing the decline in the US's tech edge, James Niccol once wrote
"It used to be that the USA was pretty good at producing stuff teenaged
boys could lose a finger or two playing with."

[Bill]

On 8/20/2022 6:05 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Greetings all
> Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
> found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
> and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits
> into router irons, I have two questions:
> 1) "What was I thinking?"
> 2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
> exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
> knife blade.
>
> Any ideas for "alternative" uses?

You could probably fashion a blade for the end of your favorite "box
cutter". Maybe it would last longer than the kind you buy 12 for $2. An
envelope opener also comes to mind. Filet knives (for fish) have
flexible blades. Good luck with your project! : )

[Markem618]

On Sat, 20 Aug 2022 15:05:57 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Greetings all
> Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
>found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
>and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits
>into router irons, I have two questions:
> 1) "What was I thinking?"
> 2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
>exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
>knife blade.
>
> Any ideas for "alternative" uses?

I have a knife my dad made out of 1 1/4 inch wide blade, it is 1/16
inch thick was from a LARGE metal cutting bandsaw. A marking tool is
also a possibilty.

[Clifford Heath]

On 21/8/22 08:05, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Greetings all
> Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
> found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
> and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits
> into router irons, I have two questions:
> 1) "What was I thinking?"
> 2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
> exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
> knife blade.
>
> Any ideas for "alternative" uses?

They work well as scraper blades for woodwork. Hone both sides and the
edge to form *sharp* 90-degree edges, use a hard metal (shaft of a good
screwdriver) to form a microscopic lip, and scrape. It cuts wood grain
cleanly, rather than shredding it and filling it with dust like
sandpaper does, and removes material faster than sandpaper too. Treat
with a good Danish oil and you have a superb finish.

Clifford Heath

[Puckdropper]

pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in
news:khl2gh5h2dt3m6k8v...@4ax.com:

> Greetings all
> Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
> found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
> and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits
> into router irons, I have two questions:
> 1) "What was I thinking?"
> 2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
> exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
> knife blade.
>
> Any ideas for "alternative" uses?

I've thought about drilling holes in either end of a broken blade and
just making it into a bow saw. I just never got around to it when I had
a broken blade with still very sharp teeth.

A simple striking knife could be created by sandwiching the blade with
two pieces of wood and grinding the profile to match. I wonder if the
teeth would come off faster in a vise wiggling them back and forth with
pliers or if you just ground them down. (Or you could tie a string
betwen the tooth you want gone and the door knob and slam the door?)

A bandsaw blade might be good for making a profile cutter. You file the
profile you want into the blade and run it along the wood until you get
the profile you cut. If you want to get fancy, you can add handles or
even add some support behind the blade.

Puckdropper

[Jim Wilkins]

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news:khl2gh5h2dt3m6k8v...@4ax.com...

Greetings all
Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits
into router irons, I have two questions:
1) "What was I thinking?"
2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
knife blade.

Any ideas for "alternative" uses?

-------------------------
I mainly use thin hard steel from razor blades to car springs and flat pry
bars for custom and replacement springs. The pry bar leaf spring cushions my
sawmill's blade tensioner, which I set at 1000-1200 lbs. I forged a froe
from a car spring.

Is this a wood or metal cutting blade?

Bandsaw blades for wood are soft enough to sharpen with a file and can be
bent somewhat without breaking, as to set the teeth. When the one-man shop
that resharpens my sawmill bands had trouble with his ageing equipment I
made a roller filing guide and doubled the service life of my blades by
touching up the 256 points. The custom spring in the guide indexes on the
tooth gullet.

Metal cutting blades are much harder and difficult to rework, except by
grinding or annealing and then hardening and tempering.

I ground the back edge of a long wood-cutting recip saw blade to a knife
edge for a camping knife+saw but found it wasn't hard enough to stay sharp.
As a saw it's been very useful, I even used it on the computer of an Apollo
IC design workstation to allow a slightly larger replacement power supply to
fit. Thus a hand-made tool helped me design a DRAM controller IC.

[pyotr filipivich]

Markem618 <mark...@hotmail.com> on Sat, 20 Aug 2022 17:59:46 -0500
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Marking knife - aye.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although far too often, Age travels alone."

[Bob La Londe]

They could be used in a decent pro scroll saw that has clamps instead of
pin hooks.




--
This email has been checked for viruses by AVG antivirus software.
www.avg.com

[Bob La Londe]

P.S. I have a couple worn out unbroken blades laying out in my scrap
metal pile that I have no idea why I saved them. I guess I could
resharpen them in a pinch. I guess I might do that only if I didn't
have a spare on hand. Otherwise that would take longer than its worth.

[Scott Lurndal]

pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> writes:
>Greetings all
> Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
>found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
>and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits
>into router irons, I have two questions:
> 1) "What was I thinking?"
> 2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
>exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
>knife blade.
>
> Any ideas for "alternative" uses?

They make good scrapers for getting into corners and
other small places where a full-size scraper won't fit.

Cleaning glue squeezeout in corners.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:tdtv7g$1rk6$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

P.S. I have a couple worn out unbroken blades laying out in my scrap
metal pile that I have no idea why I saved them. I guess I could
resharpen them in a pinch. I guess I might do that only if I didn't
have a spare on hand. Otherwise that would take longer than its worth.

----------------------

The shop that sharpens my 16' long, 3/4" tooth pitch sawmill blades has been
charging $10 apiece, before the plagues of disease and inflation. (Frogs,
locusts??) When his quality declined I made a filing jig that took about
10-15 seconds per tooth. Filing and setting them doesn't make sense
cost-wise but it's a welcome seated rest for my knees after standing and
carrying heavy cut planks and beams.

Dull metal-cutting blades can be used for friction sawing.
https://www.practicalmachinist.com/forum/threads/refitting-bandsaw-for-friction-cutting.264463/

[Bill]

On 8/21/2022 2:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:

> P.S.  I have a couple worn out unbroken blades laying out in my scrap
> metal pile that I have no idea why I saved them.  I guess I could
> resharpen them in a pinch.  I guess I might do that only if I didn't
> have a spare on hand.  Otherwise that would take longer than its worth.

I have a broken garage door spring that I've been saving for when
I have a project idea and more time. I was thinking small cutting tools
for woodcarving.

[pyotr filipivich]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022 07:56:33
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

>
>I ground the back edge of a long wood-cutting recip saw blade to a knife
>edge for a camping knife+saw but found it wasn't hard enough to stay sharp.

I recall reading an article {back in the days when "the web" was
something spiders made in the corner} about doing just that.

>As a saw it's been very useful, I even used it on the computer of an Apollo
>IC design workstation to allow a slightly larger replacement power supply to
>fit. Thus a hand-made tool helped me design a DRAM controller IC.

See!!!?!

[pyotr filipivich]

Bob La Londe <no...@none.com99> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022 11:57:52 -0700

typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>

>P.S. I have a couple worn out unbroken blades laying out in my scrap
>metal pile that I have no idea why I saved them. I guess I could
>resharpen them in a pinch. I guess I might do that only if I didn't
>have a spare on hand. Otherwise that would take longer than its worth.


--

pyotr filipivich
"Sawdust is Man Glitter"Some day, when I have time, and there is
nothing more important, I fully intend to fix / use that, for
something."

[pyotr filipivich]

Bob La Londe <no...@none.com99> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022 09:21:57 -0700

typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Do they make a scroll saw which will handle a blade 1 (one) inch
front to back?

[pyotr filipivich]

Bill <none...@att.net> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022 20:40:26 -0400 typed in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

I gave the one left spring bundle to a smith friend. The other
one I kept because maybe some day ...

[knuttle]

That is my downfall also. Whenever something breaks or wears out it
does not get thrown away, on the chance that I will be able to use it
for something someday.

Fortunately in my younger days we move ever 6 to 8 years, so those items
had definite expiration dates and disappeared when we moved.

We have lived in this house longer than any house before, and the
crevases are filling up. My wife does not want to move again, so I am
going to have to look for another solution.

[Mike Spencer]

Bill <none...@att.net> writes:

> I have a broken garage door spring that I've been saving for when
> I have a project idea and more time. I was thinking small cutting tools
> for woodcarving.

When my blacksmith shop was 100 yards from the wharf, I had a couple
of guys who asked for two tools that I made from garage door spring.
One was a sharp-pointed gaff to be fixed to a 3' wooden handle. The
other was a short, blunt hook with a 'T' handle for removing the hooks
from fish as long-line trawl was continuously mechanically hauled over
the rail without getting the subsequently exposed fish hook where it
wasn't supposed to go. The latter kept getting dropped overboard so
that guy was a regular customer.

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
news:874jy4o...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...

Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

------------------

How do you temper spring stock for rough handling?

My one blacksmithing class was something of an apprenticeship. One task was
to straighten the coil spring from a truck with hammer and anvil. I did it,
but it was at the limit of what I could do by myself without other
mechanical aid.

I just read in a locomotive history that 1-1/4" bar stock was the maximum
that a blacksmith could forge weld in the 1840's. From other sources it
appears that large steamboat crankshafts were a real struggle to forge weld
without flaws. Steam engine development was limited by the ability to make
increasingly larger and stronger parts.

By the 1850's American locomotive boilers operated around 90PSI. Watt's
objection to the dangers of high pressure had little influence in the USA,
and the greater grades and distances here caused designs to diverge from
British practice. This is an example from the 1860's
https://www.kennesaw-ga.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_0034-300x199.jpg

During the US Civil War cavalry destroyed railroads by heating the rails red
hot in the middle on a stack of burning ties (sleepers) and then twisting
them spirally or bending them around trees, which was easier for mounted
troops without heavy tools. The South started it, calling them Mrs Lincoln's
hair ties. That was a nuisance for the North but new rails were available.
When Northern cavalry became able to raid the South their very limited
industry couldn't as easily supply replacements and their military
transportation was crippled.
https://www.nchgs.org/html/griersons_raid.html
https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3a4a5033296410f68daf20b763f4e96d-lq

[pyotr filipivich]

knuttle <keith_...@sbcglobal.net> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022 22:12:32
-0400 typed in rec.woodworking the following:

>On 8/21/2022 5:14 PM, Scott Lurndal wrote:
>> pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>> Greetings all
>>> Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
>>> found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
>>> and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits
>>> into router irons, I have two questions:
>>> 1) "What was I thinking?"
>>> 2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
>>> exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
>>> knife blade.
>>>
>>> Any ideas for "alternative" uses?
>>
>> They make good scrapers for getting into corners and
>> other small places where a full-size scraper won't fit.
>>
>> Cleaning glue squeezeout in corners.
>That is my downfall also. Whenever something breaks or wears out it
>does not get thrown away, on the chance that I will be able to use it
>for something someday.
>
>Fortunately in my younger days we move ever 6 to 8 years, so those items
>had definite expiration dates and disappeared when we moved.

When I moved out of room I rented, the stack by the computer desk
"for later" was almost as tall as the desk ...

>
>We have lived in this house longer than any house before, and the
>crevases are filling up. My wife does not want to move again, so I am
>going to have to look for another solution.

We started about a year before the move trying to stick by
"nothing comes in unless there is a space for it, or something will go
out to make said space."
Now, "What exactly will you do with it? And when? Be explicit."
--
pyotr filipivich
This Week's Panel: Us & Them - Eliminating Them.
Next Month's Panel: Having eliminated the old Them(tm)
Selecting who insufficiently Woke(tm) as to serve as the new Them(tm)

[Bob La Londe]

I have one too. I have mixed feelings about it though. If it has one
fracture (the failure) from fatigue it may have more that just haven't
failed yet. I don't think I'll use it unless I get it up to welding
heat and beat on it to reforge any invisible fractures.

[Bob La Londe]

I'll have to take a look at my big scroll saw and see what I think. It
doesn't use the regular pinned scroll saw blades (it can), so it might.
Maybe with some massaging of the blade shape at the ends. I can't
think of why I would want to. Maybe if society breaks down, spares
become unobtainium, and somehow I still have electricity.

[Leon]

Would not a band saw blade make a scroll saw relatively pointless? I
mean are scroll saw blades so expensive that you would want to use make
one out of a band saw blade? Would a scroll saw have the oomph to
power a 1" wide blade?

[Bill]

I never thought of trying to repair it. But one could easily get dozens
of cutting tools "out" of it. The part that sounds inconvenient is that
you would have to anneal it before shaping it, and then harden it
(properly). Because of it's location (I had to borrow something to stand
on to replace it), I'm not interesting in trying to reuse it. That said,
if it breaks again, I would replace it myself again, and I recommend the
job to the interested DIY-er.

More recently, I declogged a bathroom sink drain with a 25' snake, which
was $16, at the (infamous!) H.F. tool emporium. ; ) I thought I was
going to use the tool without a drill, but I quickly changed my mind.
To be honest, I had to do the job twice to clear it, but I was
successful on my second try (more turning, less pushing!).

[k...@notreal.com]

On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 18:34:09 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Bill <none...@att.net> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022 20:40:26 -0400 typed in
>rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>On 8/21/2022 2:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>
>>> P.S.  I have a couple worn out unbroken blades laying out in my scrap
>>> metal pile that I have no idea why I saved them.  I guess I could
>>> resharpen them in a pinch.  I guess I might do that only if I didn't
>>> have a spare on hand.  Otherwise that would take longer than its worth.
>>
>>I have a broken garage door spring that I've been saving for when
>>I have a project idea and more time. I was thinking small cutting tools
>>for woodcarving.
>
> I gave the one left spring bundle to a smith friend. The other
>one I kept because maybe some day ...

Hoarding much? ;-)

[pyotr filipivich]

k...@notreal.com on Mon, 22 Aug 2022 21:43:50 -0400 typed in

rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 18:34:09 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Bill <none...@att.net> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022 20:40:26 -0400 typed in
>>rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>On 8/21/2022 2:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>
>>>> P.S.  I have a couple worn out unbroken blades laying out in my scrap
>>>> metal pile that I have no idea why I saved them.  I guess I could
>>>> resharpen them in a pinch.  I guess I might do that only if I didn't
>>>> have a spare on hand.  Otherwise that would take longer than its worth.
>>>
>>>I have a broken garage door spring that I've been saving for when
>>>I have a project idea and more time. I was thinking small cutting tools
>>>for woodcarving.
>>
>> I gave the one left spring bundle to a smith friend. The other
>>one I kept because maybe some day ...
>
>Hoarding much? ;-)

Nah. Hoarding is what _they_ do.

_I_ maintain a stock pile of necessities.

[pyotr filipivich]

Bob La Londe <no...@none.com99> on Mon, 22 Aug 2022 15:14:04 -0700

typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>

>>> They could be used in a decent pro scroll saw that has clamps instead of
>>> pin hooks.
>>
>> Do they make a scroll saw which will handle a blade 1 (one) inch
>> front to back?
>
>
>I'll have to take a look at my big scroll saw and see what I think. It
>doesn't use the regular pinned scroll saw blades (it can), so it might.
> Maybe with some massaging of the blade shape at the ends. I can't
>think of why I would want to. Maybe if society breaks down, spares
>become unobtainium, and somehow I still have electricity.

I have in my notes, plans for a "walking beam" saw which _could_
use these for cutting wood. I also have some plans for using a
bicycle gear box and a treadle for powering a lathe. ...

[Bill]

It occurred to me that after welding a broken garage door spring it
would take a lot of "fortitude" to then crank it up to tension! ; )
It would be a good way to test ones welding skill however!

[whit3rd]

On Saturday, August 20, 2022 at 3:06:49 PM UTC-7, pyotr filipivich wrote:
> Greetings all
> Whilst cleaning out yet another box/container marked "Stuff" I
> found that I have two "bits" of 1 inch band saw blade, about a foot
> and a half in length. Having seen videos on how to turn spade bits

> into router irons...

Don't overthink it; punch holes in the blade and fit it into a hacksaw frame.
The bandsaw steel isn't particularly springy or tough, but the teeth are hard
and it'll cut.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Bob La Londe" wrote in message news:te0upt$33j$1...@gioia.aioe.org...

I have one too. I have mixed feelings about it though. If it has one
fracture (the failure) from fatigue it may have more that just haven't
failed yet. I don't think I'll use it unless I get it up to welding
heat and beat on it to reforge any invisible fractures.

----------------------

At red heat cracks may become visible as abrupt color differences. I
practiced on used springs but bought a new piece of 5160 leaf spring stock
to make anything important and time-consuming, and the cheap flat pry bar I
made into a spring was new.
https://knifesteelnerds.com/2019/04/01/how-to-heat-treat-5160/

The froe prompted me to complete an electric furnace project so it could be
tempered for an hour, twice, per the blacksmith's recommendation. It turns
out the furnace may have a Platinel thermocouple which tracks type K closely
at higher temperatures but not in the range I was using, so more effort is
needed, some day. Since a froe is pounded through the wood being split with
a thick stick rather than a metal tool it doesn't really need toughness.

[Scott Lurndal]

Do you have a copy of Audels Engineers and Mechanics Guide? Lots of
useful mechanical ideas therein. A good introduction to steam engines
in volume 1.

Check antique stores and flea markets. It is really fascinating reading.

[Leon]

ROTFLMAO

[k...@notreal.com]

On Mon, 22 Aug 2022 19:15:51 -0700, pyotr filipivich

<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>k...@notreal.com on Mon, 22 Aug 2022 21:43:50 -0400 typed in
>rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>On Sun, 21 Aug 2022 18:34:09 -0700, pyotr filipivich
>><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>Bill <none...@att.net> on Sun, 21 Aug 2022 20:40:26 -0400 typed in
>>>rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>>On 8/21/2022 2:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> P.S.  I have a couple worn out unbroken blades laying out in my scrap
>>>>> metal pile that I have no idea why I saved them.  I guess I could
>>>>> resharpen them in a pinch.  I guess I might do that only if I didn't
>>>>> have a spare on hand.  Otherwise that would take longer than its worth.
>>>>
>>>>I have a broken garage door spring that I've been saving for when
>>>>I have a project idea and more time. I was thinking small cutting tools
>>>>for woodcarving.
>>>
>>> I gave the one left spring bundle to a smith friend. The other
>>>one I kept because maybe some day ...
>>
>>Hoarding much? ;-)
>
> Nah. Hoarding is what _they_ do.
>
> _I_ maintain a stock pile of necessities.

Ah, I see. To conjugate "save":

Singular:
I "squirrel away"
You "stockpile"
He/she/it "hoards"

Plural
We "collect"
You "accumulate"
They "prep"

Got it.

[Jack]

On 8/21/2022 2:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>> On 8/20/2022 6:05 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>>     2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
>>>> exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
>>>> knife blade.
>>>>
>>>>     Any ideas for "alternative" uses?
>>>

>> They could be used in a decent pro scroll saw that has clamps instead
>> of pin hooks.

1" blade is pretty big for a scroll saw blade. I did this with my old
24" Delta/Rockwell scroll saw and 3/16th" BS blade, and while it worked,
not as well as a scroll saw blade and basically was not worth it. I used
a rough, 3 tooth skip blade, not the best for scroll work.

I'd go for the scraper blade myself, but there again, is it really worth it?

--
Jack
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message news:Zq5NK.93622$Sf2....@fx34.iad...

Do you have a copy of Audels Engineers and Mechanics Guide? Lots of
useful mechanical ideas therein. A good introduction to steam engines
in volume 1.

Check antique stores and flea markets. It is really fascinating reading.

---------------------

https://www.forgottenbooks.com/en/books/AudelsEngineersandMechanicsGuide7_10522311

There's also an Audels Millwrights and Mechanics Guide which I have.

[Scott Lurndal]

I prefer the leatherbound, gilt-edge original editions myself.

I have volumes 1-7 of the Engineers and Mechanics[*], all four of the
Carpenters and Builders guides(two sets), the Diesel engine one, reading
blueprints, volumes 1-4 of the Plumbers and Steam Fitters guide and the Electric
Dictionary.

[*] Picked up a month ago at an antique shop in San Juan Bautista
for USD50.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Scott Lurndal" wrote in message news:wD7NK.176232$Me2.1...@fx47.iad...

I prefer the leatherbound, gilt-edge original editions myself.

---------------------

I buy old technology books as reprints to read and learn from, and leave the
collectible ones for collectors, including a Segway engineer who showed me
his magnificent library of the originals like Lindsay used to reprint.

I'm not intentionally trying to assemble a museum, it just happens.

[Leon]

On 8/23/2022 10:54 AM, Jack wrote:
> On 8/21/2022 2:57 PM, Bob La Londe wrote:
>>>> On 8/20/2022 6:05 PM, pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>>>     2) what can be done with a piece of band saw blade? It is not
>>>>> exactly stiff enough for use in plane, although it might work for a
>>>>> knife blade.
>>>>>
>>>>>     Any ideas for "alternative" uses?
>>>>
>
>>> They could be used in a decent pro scroll saw that has clamps instead
>>> of pin hooks.
>
> 1" blade is pretty big for a scroll saw blade. I did this with my old
> 24" Delta/Rockwell scroll saw and 3/16th" BS blade, and while it worked,
> not as well as a scroll saw blade and basically was not worth it. I used
> a rough, 3 tooth skip blade, not the best for scroll work.

LOL, Hell a 1" blade is pretty big for some band saws. ;~)

Was a single tooth doing all the work on that 3 tooth blade?

[Bob La Londe]

Apparently you CAN criticize even if you didn't read what was written.
LOL.

[Bob La Londe]

No, I was just thinking about how guys on gun groups will go to extremes
trying to reheat treat (they often miss-say re-temper) a spring that has
gone soft over the course of 100+ years instead of taking a piece of
spring steel sheet and making a new one with no issues that is sitting
there on a shelf for just such a purpose. Yeah, I can't imagine
standing there on a lander with a pair of winding bars cranking up a
garage door spring with a weld in it. I just don't have that much
nerve. Its kind of scary just winding up a garage door spring when its
brand new.

Brrrrr!!!!

[Gerry]

My copy of "Audel's Machinists and tool makers handy book" is right
beside my 13th edition of "Machinery's Handbook"

[Jim Wilkins]

"Gerry" wrote in message news:de7bgh986f10femvb...@4ax.com...

-----------------

I have a Fourth Edition of Marks' Handbook. It's old and quaint, but not as
out of date as an ancient Egyptian text I saw that gives Pi as 16/9 squared.
Those space aliens who helped them weren't as smart as claimed.

I went through school and college at the very end of the slide rule era.
It's interesting to peruse old texts and see how far back the curriculum I
learned existed, for instance the slide rule dates from the 1600's, although
water isn't HO any more. The geometry we learned was hundreds of years old
when Jesus was a student.

In the Colonial Era we were barely more advanced than the Romans, and well
behind them in public water and sewer systems. The Founding Fathers observed
prototypes of the steamboat and locomotive, manned flight and high capacity
assault rifles though none had been developed enough for practical use yet.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Fitch_(inventor)
https://www.mountvernon.org/library/digitalhistory/digital-encyclopedia/article/george-washington-and-ballooning/
https://www.defensemedianetwork.com/stories/the-girandoni-air-rifle/
Other sources claim Thomas Jefferson imported it.

The signed Declaration of Independence manuscript is in poor shape because
it was used as the wet-process master to produce image copies with its hand
signatures, like a Mimeograph (or Xerox), rather than a typeset version.
There are Roman-era first editions of the Bible in better condition.

[pyotr filipivich]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> on Tue, 23 Aug 2022 13:21:10
-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Ayup.

While in tech school I went to a trade show in Portland. (Teacher
would approve the absence if we brought back "goodies".) Powell's
Technical Books had a copy of the Machinery Handbook, 7th ed (1940). I
bought it for the cool factor, then discovered it covered areas I'd
not thought of. Hard a whole section on railroad specific issue. I'd
not thought of railroads as potential source of employment as a
machinist before then.

[pyotr filipivich]

Jack <jbst...@comcast.net> on Tue, 23 Aug 2022 11:54:45 -0400 typed
in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Like so many things: is "making it yourself" worth it? As the
saying goes "I'm going to spend 29.95 on supplies to make something I
could buy for 2.50."

When making something from scratch, do you make your own scratch?

[pyotr filipivich]

sc...@slp53.sl.home (Scott Lurndal) on Tue, 23 Aug 2022 14:24:57 GMT

typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> writes:
>>Bob La Londe <no...@none.com99> on Mon, 22 Aug 2022 15:14:04 -0700
>>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>
>>>>> They could be used in a decent pro scroll saw that has clamps instead of
>>>>> pin hooks.
>>>>
>>>> Do they make a scroll saw which will handle a blade 1 (one) inch
>>>> front to back?
>>>
>>>
>>>I'll have to take a look at my big scroll saw and see what I think. It
>>>doesn't use the regular pinned scroll saw blades (it can), so it might.
>>> Maybe with some massaging of the blade shape at the ends. I can't
>>>think of why I would want to. Maybe if society breaks down, spares
>>>become unobtainium, and somehow I still have electricity.
>>
>> I have in my notes, plans for a "walking beam" saw which _could_
>>use these for cutting wood. I also have some plans for using a
>>bicycle gear box and a treadle for powering a lathe. ...
>
>Do you have a copy of Audels Engineers and Mechanics Guide? Lots of
>useful mechanical ideas therein. A good introduction to steam engines
>in volume 1.

Nope. Lot of other interesting books.

>Check antique stores and flea markets. It is really fascinating reading.

Sigh, so many books, so little time. Been saying that since High
School.

[pyotr filipivich]

k...@notreal.com on Tue, 23 Aug 2022 10:32:14 -0400 typed in

_I_ stockpile
_You_ squirrel away.
...

>
>Plural
>We "collect"
>You "accumulate"
>They "prep"
>
>Got it.

Yep.

[pyotr filipivich]

whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> on Mon, 22 Aug 2022 22:07:23 -0700 (PDT)

typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

Good tip.

[Jim Wilkins]

I really need to sort my old book collection better. Audel's Machinist and
Tool Makers Handy Book doesn't belong between The Victor Book of the Opera
and Flavius Josephus.

The rough planks for more shelves should be properly seasoned by next
spring.

[Leon Fisk]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 21:40:57 -0400
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

<snip>

>I really need to sort my old book collection better. Audel's Machinist and
>Tool Makers Handy Book doesn't belong between The Victor Book of the Opera
>and Flavius Josephus.

They'll be even harder to find after you sort them. You'll find
yourself staring at where they used to be and not recalling where
they moved to...

--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI

[Leon Fisk]

On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 15:45:54 -0700
pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:

<snip>

>>Do you have a copy of Audels Engineers and Mechanics Guide? Lots of
>>useful mechanical ideas therein. A good introduction to steam engines
>>in volume 1.
>
> Nope. Lot of other interesting books.

There are some decent 1921 copies at Archive. Try this search:

https://archive.org/search.php?query=title%3A%28Audels%20Engineers%29%20AND%20collection%3A%28cdl%29%20AND%20mediatype%3A%28texts%29

[Scott Lurndal]

The American Libraries scans are missing most of the diagrams.

The California Digital Library versions are much better.

[Leon]

Like icons on your smart phone! LOL

[pyotr filipivich]

Leon Fisk <lfi...@gmail.invalid> on Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:08:15 -0400

typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

When putting things away, I have a tendency to put them where I
was last looking / expecting them to be.

And then there is the issue of "Why is this here? Because it made
sense at the time."

[Jim Wilkins]

"pyotr filipivich" wrote in message
news:33efghlggegmahdcn...@4ax.com...

When putting things away, I have a tendency to put them where I
was last looking / expecting them to be.

And then there is the issue of "Why is this here? Because it made
sense at the time."

----------------------------

That works fairly well unless you put it away hastily to get it out of the
way of something else that occupied your attention.

[k...@notreal.com]

On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:17:39 -0700, pyotr filipivich
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:

>Leon Fisk <lfi...@gmail.invalid> on Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:08:15 -0400
>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 21:40:57 -0400
>>"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>><snip>
>>>I really need to sort my old book collection better. Audel's Machinist and
>>>Tool Makers Handy Book doesn't belong between The Victor Book of the Opera
>>>and Flavius Josephus.
>>
>>They'll be even harder to find after you sort them. You'll find
>>yourself staring at where they used to be and not recalling where
>>they moved to...
>
> When putting things away, I have a tendency to put them where I
>was last looking / expecting them to be.
>
> And then there is the issue of "Why is this here? Because it made
>sense at the time."

Everything is in its place. I just can't remember where that place
is.

[pyotr filipivich]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> on Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:32:48

-0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

That falls under the heading "It made sense at the time".

Like why my phone is "over there" - because I put it down to do
something else ...

I keep opening containers and finding the "I know I have one ...
somewhere" which is why I now have three of them.

[pyotr filipivich]

k...@notreal.com on Thu, 25 Aug 2022 18:38:00 -0400 typed in

rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:17:39 -0700, pyotr filipivich
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Leon Fisk <lfi...@gmail.invalid> on Thu, 25 Aug 2022 11:08:15 -0400
>>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>On Wed, 24 Aug 2022 21:40:57 -0400
>>>"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>><snip>
>>>>I really need to sort my old book collection better. Audel's Machinist and
>>>>Tool Makers Handy Book doesn't belong between The Victor Book of the Opera
>>>>and Flavius Josephus.
>>>
>>>They'll be even harder to find after you sort them. You'll find
>>>yourself staring at where they used to be and not recalling where
>>>they moved to...
>>
>> When putting things away, I have a tendency to put them where I
>>was last looking / expecting them to be.
>>
>> And then there is the issue of "Why is this here? Because it made
>>sense at the time."
>
>Everything is in its place. I just can't remember where that place
>is.

"I remember seeing it, now where was I when I saw it?"

[Mike Spencer]

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> writes:

> How do you temper spring stock for rough handling?

Depends on the spring. The garage door spring gaffs were neither
hardened nor tempered, just air cooled after forging. OTOH, front
torsion springs from a 60s VW (ca. 1/8"x3/4", 30" long) can be bent
180 deg in the vise as found. Heat to a red heat, air cool, can be
snapped in two with an easy tweak.

Making power hammer dies from big-truck helper springs: Weld m/s to
it, the welds fail under light blows, taking a thin crust of the
embrittled spring stock with them. Heated to a black heat before
welding, reheating after welding and then packing in ceramic blanket
for 24 hrs. and you can wail on the welded part with a 2.5 # hammer.

One of my disheartening failures: make a replacement spring for a
pedal of an antique reed organ. Two pieces of thin spring stock bent
to curves and joined at one end with rivets. I made three units from
old hand say blades, using low-tech methods of judging heat and
tempering temperature. They all worked great for an hour, then
broke. Finally found an organ collector go gave me whaat I needed
that's still working.


> My one blacksmithing class was something of an apprenticeship. One task was
> to straighten the coil spring from a truck with hammer and anvil. I did it,
> but it was at the limit of what I could do by myself without other
> mechanical aid.

Say, 3/4" diameter stock? Harder to work with than garage door
spring.

> I just read in a locomotive history that 1-1/4" bar stock was the maximum
> that a blacksmith could forge weld in the 1840's. From other sources it
> appears that large steamboat crankshafts were a real struggle to forge weld
> without flaws. Steam engine development was limited by the ability to make
> increasingly larger and stronger parts.

How about anchors? Some of them around here appear to have a stock
about 4" square. The arms are welded to the stock and the flukes
welded to the arms, all forge welding. There's a mid-18th c. picture
in Diderot of welding an anchor that appears eneven bigger -- 6" of 7"
stock? -- with a power hammer but AIUI the ones that decorate people's
dooryards around here would have been welded by four strikers with 16#
hammers.

>
> By the 1850's American locomotive boilers operated around 90PSI. Watt's
> objection to the dangers of high pressure had little influence in the USA,
> and the greater grades and distances here caused designs to diverge from
> British practice. This is an example from the 1860's
> https://www.kennesaw-ga.gov/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/IMG_0034-300x199.jpg
>
> During the US Civil War cavalry destroyed railroads by heating the rails red
> hot in the middle on a stack of burning ties (sleepers) and then twisting
> them spirally or bending them around trees, which was easier for mounted
> troops without heavy tools. The South started it, calling them Mrs Lincoln's
> hair ties. That was a nuisance for the North but new rails were available.
> When Northern cavalry became able to raid the South their very limited
> industry couldn't as easily supply replacements and their military
> transportation was crippled.
> https://www.nchgs.org/html/griersons_raid.html
> https://qph.cf2.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-3a4a5033296410f68daf20b763f4e96d-lq

One of my favorite movies is Buster Keaton's "The General".

--
Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message
news:87o7w6k...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> writes:

> How do you temper spring stock for rough handling?

Depends on the spring. The garage door spring gaffs were neither
hardened nor tempered, just air cooled after forging. OTOH, front
torsion springs from a 60s VW (ca. 1/8"x3/4", 30" long) can be bent
180 deg in the vise as found. Heat to a red heat, air cool, can be
snapped in two with an easy tweak.

[[ My only VW front axle experience was replacing the king pins. I try to
avoid destroying parts a restorer might use. I have a farm wagon front axle
that's 1-3/4" square, apparently forged from 3" round stock which remains
intact at the wheel flanges. The two halves were upset and forge welded at
the center pivot, the diagonal scarf is still visible. The rust pit pattern
isn't directional like wrought iron. Maybe the blacksmith will trade it for
some modern bar stock. ]]

Making power hammer dies from big-truck helper springs: Weld m/s to
it, the welds fail under light blows, taking a thin crust of the
embrittled spring stock with them. Heated to a black heat before
welding, reheating after welding and then packing in ceramic blanket
for 24 hrs. and you can wail on the welded part with a 2.5 # hammer.

[[ Thanks. I made bucket loader pivot pins from drill rod and TIG welded the
retainer plates, one of which cracked off in the heat affected zone.
Annealing the rest degraded their ground finish. ]]

One of my disheartening failures: make a replacement spring for a
pedal of an antique reed organ. Two pieces of thin spring stock bent
to curves and joined at one end with rivets. I made three units from
old hand say blades, using low-tech methods of judging heat and
tempering temperature. They all worked great for an hour, then
broke. Finally found an organ collector go gave me whaat I needed
that's still working.

> My one blacksmithing class was something of an apprenticeship. One task
> was
> to straighten the coil spring from a truck with hammer and anvil. I did
> it,
> but it was at the limit of what I could do by myself without other
> mechanical aid.

Say, 3/4" diameter stock? Harder to work with than garage door
spring.

[[ Yes. The blacksmith shop had the right equipment but I was trying to
determine what I could do alone at home. Heating the spring and bending it
revealed many internal cracks so I brought in a scrapped leaf spring a
neighbor had given me. ]]

> I just read in a locomotive history that 1-1/4" bar stock was the maximum
> that a blacksmith could forge weld in the 1840's. From other sources it
> appears that large steamboat crankshafts were a real struggle to forge
> weld
> without flaws. Steam engine development was limited by the ability to make
> increasingly larger and stronger parts.

How about anchors? Some of them around here appear to have a stock
about 4" square. The arms are welded to the stock and the flukes
welded to the arms, all forge welding. There's a mid-18th c. picture
in Diderot of welding an anchor that appears eneven bigger -- 6" of 7"
stock? -- with a power hammer but AIUI the ones that decorate people's
dooryards around here would have been welded by four strikers with 16#
hammers.

[[ The weight and scope of the chain helps isolate anchors from the constant
pounding that steam engines and loco frames must endure.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hammer_blow
When I read that I remembered a story about repairing a 30" diameter paddle
wheel steamer crankshaft that had broken, evidently because it was too big
for the smith to build it up with sound forge welds. The lathes to turn
them had beds that resembled granite bridge abutments. These links are
impressively large and I'm glad I didn't have to help forge them. I've
watched 3/8" chain for oxen pulling contests being forge welded at about a
minute per link but I wouldn't trust myself to do it properly.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hudson_River_Chains
]]

[Mike Spencer]

pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> writes:

> When putting things away, I have a tendency to put them where I
> was last looking / expecting them to be.
>
> And then there is the issue of "Why is this here? Because it made
> sense at the time."

Realized I might need a hub adaptor to put larger spools on my MIG
welder. Knew I had had one but couldn't find it anywhere. Ordered
one with some bother as the welder is 20 years old. When I got it, I
thought to myself, where shall I put it so that next time, I can find
it? Thought of a good place, went to put it there and found the
missing one.

Duh.

[Mike Spencer]

pyotr filipivich <ph...@mindspring.com> writes:

> k...@notreal.com on Mon, 22 Aug 2022 21:43:50 -0400 typed in
>

>> Hoarding much? ;-)
>
> Nah. Hoarding is what _they_ do.
>
> _I_ maintain a stock pile of necessities.

Did I post this before? A year or two ago I was able to fix my car
because I had exactly the right huge sheet metal screws left over from
fixing up my old Metro bread truck in 1966. Was able to fix my 1913
toaster with a bit of nichrome wire I bought in 1977, no longer
available at the hardware store. Never throw anything away.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mike Spencer" wrote in message

news:87zgfmj...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere...

Mike Spencer Nova Scotia, Canada

----------------------

My problem is efficiently storing it all. I've found it practical to group
related items into one bin as long as I can tell them apart, for instance
all lengths of each diameter/pitch of bolts or screws are in the same bin,
or if I have more than one bin's worth they are sorted by head style and
indoor/outdoor use. Brass, aluminum and stainless are in the same bin
because they look different.
This tray makes it easy to spread them out to find what I want and then
funnel them back into the bin.
https://www.harborfreight.com/easy-sorter-funnel-tray-37081.html

It's a tradeoff of the storage space, the chance I'll need it and the time
to sort through the bin. Most bins are more than half full.

[pyotr filipivich]

Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> on 30 Aug 2022 04:17:37
-0300 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

LOL.

Which is why I have three unused soldering irons. And just found
a forth.

[pyotr filipivich]

Mike Spencer <m...@bogus.nodomain.nowhere> on 30 Aug 2022 04:25:46

-0300 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:

The main issues is not that I have this large stockpile. It is
knowing that I have one of "those", but can't recall where I was
standing when I last saw it.

[Gerry]

On 30 Aug 2022 04:25:46 -0300, Mike Spencer

Not really relevant, but you do live on the right side of the country!

[Gerry]

Our local plastic, blow molded, vinnegar jugs taper from the
recangular body to the cap; so by sliceing along the mold line I get
two sorting trays to dump my tobacco can storage containers - find
what I need and return to stock.
I used to smoke a pipe and our former military wife secretary rolled
cigarettes for herself and husband, so it didn't take long to
accumulate around a hundred half pound cans with twist off lids that
fit three to a stud space, supported on 1 x 2" horizontal strapping.
I also have smaller containers - nut cans (paperboard wall with metal
bottom and top ring and plastic snap on cover, mostly 4"dia. by 3"
high) that I have been accumulating.
Second Son has a good number of Folgers coffee cans about one gallon
size.
I jut need to invent a system like the file room with moveable, track
mounted file shelves.

[Gerry]

On 30 Aug 2022 04:17:37 -0300, Mike Spencer

Bin there, Done that!