#OT#: Shorts and naked shorts -- Where your 401k and IRA went.
F. George McDuffee
the naked short selling of Bear Stearns and Lehman that triggered
the great recession.
http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/30481512/wall_streets_naked_swindle
FWIW --the SEC is "thinking" about reinstating some form of the
uptick rule, is thinking about some for of enforcement against
naked short selling, and the FED is "thinking" about imposing
some sort of margin requirement, and I am thinking its the same
old casino with the rigged wheels and marked cards but a new crop
of suckers, er-ah investors, many using taxpayer money.
Unka' George [George McDuffee]
-------------------------------------------
He that will not apply new remedies,
must expect new evils:
for Time is the greatest innovator: and
if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
what shall be the end?
Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
Bill McKee
"F. George McDuffee" <gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote in message
news:3fqmd51ffvca15omp...@4ax.com...
If the SEC was not in the pocket of the crooks, Bear Sterns, et al who did
uncovered short selling, would be required to forfeit all profits plus maybe
10x penalty. And the bonus money would be done the same way. Get to lose
it all plus penalty. Uncovered calls and short sales are against the rules.
Hawke
> Another good financial article from Rolling stone. This time on
> the naked short selling of Bear Stearns and Lehman that triggered
> the great recession.
>
> http://www.rollingstone.com/politics/story/30481512/wall_streets_naked_swindle
>
> FWIW --the SEC is "thinking" about reinstating some form of the
> uptick rule, is thinking about some for of enforcement against
> naked short selling, and the FED is "thinking" about imposing
> some sort of margin requirement, and I am thinking its the same
> old casino with the rigged wheels and marked cards but a new crop
> of suckers, er-ah investors, many using taxpayer money.
>
>
> Unka' George [George McDuffee]
Of course it's the same old casino. The same people who were in charge
of it before are still in charge. The fact is Wall Street runs the SEC
and not the other way around. If that isn't changed then it'll always be
back to business as usual. The people in the financial industry have to
be kept in check. If not they always return to their old ways, which are
crooked and irresponsible. When you hear what happened you can't help
but wonder how could these so called smart people be so dumb. The answer
is greed. They are incredibly greedy. At a book lectureI heard a former
vice president at Lehman's say that before they collapsed they had 18
billion in assets and they were on the hook for nearly 750 billion,
which was a leverage ratio of around 44%. The term accident waiting to
happen doesn't begin to describe that kind of recklessness. If we don't
let the government rein them in it'll be deja vu all over again. Or we
could take the advice of republicans and let the market self regulate.
How's that sound? Crazy, I know, but that's what they say.
Hawke
F. George McDuffee
<davesm...@digitalpath.net> wrote:
<snip>
>Or we
>could take the advice of republicans and let the market self regulate.
>How's that sound? Crazy, I know, but that's what they say.
Actually this would work if followed through on, i.e. no
bailouts, no tarp, etc.
The down side is the economic wreckage that would litter the
landscape.
What can't, won't and never has worked is bailout after bailout
with no reasonable regulation imposed. Without taxpayer funded
bailouts, etc. we would not be having the discussions about caps
on executive pay and bonuses, as BoA, Chase, Goldman, AIG, etc.
would have long ago gone bankrupt/chapter 7.
With the benefit of hindsight, it appears the fundamental error
the Treasury, Fed, et al. made was not the rescue of the
financial services sector per se, which after all was intended to
prevent another "great depression," and as such benefited the
average citizen as much as anyone, but in not making the
termination for cause [i.e. no golden parachutes] of all existing
directors, officers and cadre management, with a lifetime ban on
employment in the securities industries including commodities, a
condition for any Federal [taxpayer] funds.
Snag
>
> With the benefit of hindsight, it appears the fundamental error
> the Treasury, Fed, et al. made was not the rescue of the
> financial services sector per se, which after all was intended to
> prevent another "great depression," and as such benefited the
> average citizen as much as anyone, but in not making the
> termination for cause [i.e. no golden parachutes] of all existing
> directors, officers and cadre management, with a lifetime ban on
> employment in the securities industries including commodities, a
> condition for any Federal [taxpayer] funds.
>
>
> Unka' George [George McDuffee]
IOW throw the bastards that caused this out on their asses , and make sure
they can never do it again .
Works for me .
--
Snag
I'm just grateful to be
fully employed .
cavelamb
But then they don't make huge campaign contributions!
Jessica Wabbit
associates.us> wrote:
> Another good financial article from Rolling stone. This time on
> the naked short selling of Bear Stearns and Lehman that triggered
> the great recession.
>
>
> FWIW --the SEC is "thinking" about reinstating some form of the
> uptick rule, is thinking about some for of enforcement against
> naked short selling, and the FED is "thinking" about imposing
> some sort of margin requirement, and I am thinking its the same
> old casino with the rigged wheels and marked cards but a new crop
> of suckers, er-ah investors, many using taxpayer money.
>
> Unka' George [George McDuffee]
> -------------------------------------------
> He that will not apply new remedies,
> must expect new evils:
> for Time is the greatest innovator: and
> if Time, of course, alter things to the worse,
> and wisdom and counsel shall not alter them to the better,
> what shall be the end?
>
> Francis Bacon (1561-1626), English philosopher, essayist, statesman.
> Essays, "Of Innovations" (1597-1625).
I was reading some interesting piece about the rising market and gold
prices. Gold is supposed to be going up when investors are not
confident in the market. The current situation just doesn't indicate
any real confidence in the economy and the market could be a
bubble ...
Bill McKee
"Jessica Wabbit" <ja...@rock.com> wrote in message
news:849e641a-6005-439e...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
The current market is a bubble. Rise is mostly in the Financial markets,
and that is because the government is pouring untold amounts of money in to
the sector. And Gold as well as oil, corn and other hard commodities that
are priced in US Dollars are going up because the dollar is dropping in
value. Printing all that paper that is not really backed by anything,
devalues the currency.
Hawke
Or, it could be that since the market is a "leading indicator", meaning
it tells you what is going to happen, it is telling us that the economy
is going to do better in the future. Much of what the market does is
psychologically driven so you can't just look at the economic signs and
know what it will do. One thing is for certain, if things go wrong after
a time they will go right. We had the worst recession since the 30s.
It's only logical that sooner or later we'll see an upturn. The market
goes in cycles and we just hit rock bottom. We will be going up. How
much and when we don't know but it will go up again. Could be the market
is telling us it sees better times ahead. Oh, consumer confidence is up too.
Hawke
Cliff
Should have all been nationalized.
--
Cliff
Cliff
wrote:
"Money" is never "backed" by much of anything.
Except your labor.
--
Cliff
Jessica Wabbit
I agree with the cycles, but we don't know where we are right now
anyway. The US has hit a very dark spot that makes any real recovery
very difficult and we could be seeing another big slide coming. The
current 'recovery' may just be a bubble.
Michel
Gunner Asch
It is.
Christmas is going to see a LOT of retail business going tits up in
January.
"Lenin called them "useful idiots," those people living in
liberal democracies who by giving moral and material support
to a totalitarian ideology in effect were braiding the rope that
would hang them. Why people who enjoyed freedom and prosperity worked
passionately to destroy both is a fascinating question, one still with us
today. Now the useful idiots can be found in the chorus of appeasement,
reflexive anti-Americanism, and sentimental idealism trying to inhibit
the necessary responses to another freedom-hating ideology, radical Islam"
Bruce C. Thornton, a professor of Classics at American University of Cal State Fresno
F. George McDuffee
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
<snip>
>>I agree with the cycles, but we don't know where we are right now
>>anyway. The US has hit a very dark spot that makes any real recovery
>>very difficult and we could be seeing another big slide coming. The
>>current 'recovery' may just be a bubble.
>>
>>Michel
>>
>>
>It is.
>
>Christmas is going to see a LOT of retail business going tits up in
>January.
=========
As big a cramp in the ass as this will be, the overriding problem
appears to be steep contraction of commercial real estate values,
which this of course this will contribute to.
From the available data it appears the commercial real estate
tsunami will be at least a big as the residential one. An
exacerbating factor is the tendency of commercial real estate
loans to be short term [3-7 years] balloon notes, many with
interest only or minimal principal payments. Even if the banks
and other financial institutions were making loans, the appraised
value of many of these commercial developments appear to have
fallen far below the amount required to "roll over," and there
appears to have been gross commercial over building in many areas
of the country, far in excess of any real needs.
While there does appear to be a cyclic component to the current
economy, it is by no means clear if the traditional cycles still
apply, or if the new world order and international trade has
resulted in entirely new cycles, i.e. the current level of
economic activity may be the new normal or even the new boom.
What is clear is that the old economic nostrums, elixirs and
panaceas are no longer viable, as these are attempting to
stimulate economic sectors that no longer domestically exist,
i.e. high value added, high economic multiplier manufacturing,
even as these promote grossly excessive levels of parasitic
activities such as financial, currency and commodity speculation.
It is worthwhile noting that absolutely nothing has been changed
through legislation or regulation that will prevent or even
retard another IAG or Lehman Brothers. To be sure massive
amounts of taxpayer money has been and is being spent, but no
operational changes have been made. Derivative sales are still
unregulated/untracked. Glass-Stegall remains repealed. Short
sales are still legal, with no up tick rule. Sarbanes-Oxley
"mark to market" asset valuation is not enforced. "Dark pool"
and high volume "flash" stock trading continues to expand.
Gunner Asch
<gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
>>Christmas is going to see a LOT of retail business going tits up in
>>January.
><snip>
>=========
>As big a cramp in the ass as this will be, the overriding problem
>appears to be steep contraction of commercial real estate values,
>which this of course this will contribute to.
A tremendous number of companies do 50-75% of their business during the
Christmas buying season. Last Christmas saw a significant number of them
hurting badly...this Christmas is going to see a shitload of them going
tits up.
And then there will be even more For Lease signs up. Some of them may
even kill entire shopping centers as the shopping center owners can no
longer make payment on their notes and they get foreclosed on.
And each company that goes tits up puts a bunch of people on
unemployment ...and they cant buy anything...so even more business will
be going tits..with more people out of work....and those people wont be
able to buy....more companies going tits up....and more unemployed......
And of course each company that goes tits up means their suppliers are
selling less and less..and they start laying off...the Chinese are
already having high unemployment rates.....as are truck drivers who
would have carried the merchandise...etc etc
We are living in interesting times.
And people used to laugh when I said we are in the initial stages of the
Great Depression Part Deux......
Not so many are shaking their heads anymore.....
Gunner
F. George McDuffee
<gun...@NOSPAMlightspeed.net> wrote:
<snip>
>And of course each company that goes tits up means their suppliers are
>selling less and less..and they start laying off...the Chinese are
>already having high unemployment rates.....as are truck drivers who
>would have carried the merchandise...etc etc
>
>We are living in interesting times.
>
>And people used to laugh when I said we are in the initial stages of the
>Great Depression Part Deux......
>Not so many are shaking their heads anymore.....
>
>
>Gunner
This indeed appears correct.
Feedback loops can be negative as well as positive. A serious
problem is the time limit on unemployment insurance, and many of
the people who were laid off at the start of the current "great
recession" have now exhausted or are about to exhaust their
benefits. From a paper standpoint this will reduce the
unemployment rate, as it is assumed that if you have exhausted
your unemployment compensation you are not actively looking for
work and thus are dropped from the "official" unemployment
numbers.
While incredible in this year of 2009, nationally over 1 in 6
Americans is now below the poverty line, with many now homeless
and depending on community pantries for food, wiping out 2
generations of progress.
As serious as this is, the implosion of commercial real estate
bubble, which is one of the results, may well be worse in that
the magnitude of the resulting losses are projected to be about
the same as that resulting from the bursting of the residential
real estate bubble, collapse of the residential mortgage backed
CDOs, etc. but the federal rescue money has already been spent,
and the state/local governments are already in the process of
political/economic collapse and increasingly unable to provide
even essential public health, public safety and court/legal
services.
We are indeed living in interesting times...
Cliff
wrote:
>On Wed, 21 Oct 2009 03:56:54 -0700 (PDT), Jessica Wabbit
And, as gummer always lies ...
Cliff
<gmcd...@mcduffee-associates.us> wrote:
> wiping out 2
>generations of progress.
Praise the rethugs !!!
IIRC The rich got richer.
--
Cliff
Curly Surmudgeon
Like telling us that the economy was just peachy as it disintegrated
under Bush?
--
Regards, Curly
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Cliff
<CurlySu...@live.com> wrote:
>> And, as gummer always lies ...
>
>Like telling us that the economy was just peachy as it disintegrated
>under Bush?
With all his death threats I must be cursed to live forever !!
--
Cliff