Can one breathe industrial oxygen
Ignoramus29041
are of no importance whatsoever.
rustyjames
29041.invalid> wrote:
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
I was told by a friend who owned an industrial gas/welding supply
company that it's the exact same oxygen; the only difference is the
medical oxygen has a chrome valve on the cylinder.
Artemus
"Ignoramus29041" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote in message
news:vridnePVQ4tedbHQ...@giganews.com...
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
Years ago in my scuba class I was taught to seek out a welding
tank of O2 in an emergency to treat the bends while waiting for
the paramedics.
Art
Pete C.
Ignoramus29041 wrote:
>
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
Yes, absolutely. The purity standard for welding O2 is higher (99.5%)
than the standard for medical O2 (95%). In reality, all grades are
filled from the same cryo tanks of O2 and are significantly more pure
than their respective standards. Only the analytical grade gets more
stringent handling.
Divers in particular make extensive use of O2 for blending breathing gas
mixtures (I have DSAT gas blender certification), and most private
blenders use welding grade O2 for their mixes. Commercial dive shops
usually use USP or Aviator grade strictly for insurance purposes. All
grades will analyze at 99.9% on your O2 analyzer. A commercial diver
training facility I visited had only welding grade O2 (dozens of
cylinders) which they used for their breathing gas mixes and hyperbaric
chambers.
Richard Smith
I've wondered too what Iggy asked. Not as in "fair-weather choices"
but what could be done in a difficult situation where no choice is
ideal. Rustyjames comments - thanks. Any other takes on this?
Winston
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
I accept no liability for anyone else's actions.
I am not a doctor and don't play one on USENET.
If you or a loved one are in medical distress,
call 911 or the applicable emergency number in
your area. Do not self-treat.
Rely on competent medical help.
The symptoms outlined in this post are consistent
with dangerous, communicable disease.
However, yes.
Twice over the last decade, I've recovered from
excessive breathing difficulty caused by 'lung gunk',
apparent by violent coughing and a 'crackly' noise
when inhaling.
"Lung Gunk" is fluid trapped in the lungs
which gets progressively worse, can result in
colored sputum but does not clear by itself.
I stumbled into the 'shop' and began breathing
~100% O2 from my oxygas rig for several minutes
per session. After three sessions, I was breathing
much more easily. The coughing stopped and I was
able to return to bed.
By morning almost all the fluid had been eliminated,
the 'crackling' noise was much reduced and I was
breathing normally. Two days later, I was free of
symptoms.
It worked for me twice but "two anecdotes do not
equal data", or medical advice.
YMMV.
--Winston
Bob La Londe
news:vridnePVQ4tedbHQ...@giganews.com...
> are of no importance whatsoever.
Yes, absolutely. More than once a fellow we knew who was on oxygen almost
full time came over and borrowed my Dad's welding bottle when we lived out
in the boonies. He would get his med bottle filled, and return my Dad's
bottle full the next day.
Only difference is the fancy bottle and the price.
dca...@krl.org
29041.invalid> wrote:
> are of no importance whatsoever.
You do not want to breathe pure oxygen, but welding oxygen can be
substituted for medical oxygen.
Dan
Ecnerwal
Ignoramus29041 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
According to Lincoln, the specs for cutting oxygen are more stringent
than those for breathing oxygen. So I'd go with Yes. But do pay
attention to the effects, since breathing pure oxygen has negative
effects which accumulate the longer you breathe it (and even faster is
you breathe it under pressure.) See oxygen toxicity. Under pressure they
can set in in minutes.
There are also the unintended consequences of accumulating a good deal
of highly oxygenated gas if you are breathing it in an enclosed space
which happens to have anything combustible in it and the remotest chance
of ignition/spark. See Apollo I.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Pete C.
Ecnerwal wrote:
>
> In article <vridnePVQ4tedbHQ...@giganews.com>,
> Ignoramus29041 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
>
> > can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> > are of no importance whatsoever.
>
> According to Lincoln, the specs for cutting oxygen are more stringent
> than those for breathing oxygen. So I'd go with Yes. But do pay
> attention to the effects, since breathing pure oxygen has negative
> effects which accumulate the longer you breathe it (and even faster is
> you breathe it under pressure.) See oxygen toxicity. Under pressure they
> can set in in minutes.
Central nervous system oxygen toxicity and pulmonary oxygen toxicity are
different. At atmospheric pressure CNS O2 toxicity isn't a threat.
Pulmonary O2 toxicity isn't a threat unless you are breathing pure O2
for quite a long time (days).
>
> There are also the unintended consequences of accumulating a good deal
> of highly oxygenated gas if you are breathing it in an enclosed space
> which happens to have anything combustible in it and the remotest chance
> of ignition/spark. See Apollo I.
This a a notable risk, particularly if you plan to be breathing this
pure O2 in proximity to a running engine. A safer option would be to
breath air from your compressor via a proper filter. Such filters are
available commercially to provide breathing air from shop air. I expect
Iggy can find one used for $25.
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
A friend fills his "flight tanks" from standard industrial (welding)
cyl.
Rich Grise
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
I'd bubble it through water so your mucus membranes don't dry out. But
I'd have a care - I've heard (or read) that breathing pure O2 isn't all
that good for you.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22oxygen+narcosis%22&
Hope This Helps!
Rich
Steve B
"Ignoramus29041" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote in message
news:vridnePVQ4tedbHQ...@giganews.com...
> are of no importance whatsoever.
We used welding oxygen on our decompression chambers, and not medical. And
there's nothing wrong with me with me with me with me SLAP!
Steve
Rich Grise
>
> This a a notable risk, particularly if you plan to be breathing this
> pure O2 in proximity to a running engine. A safer option would be to
> breath air from your compressor via a proper filter. Such filters are
> available commercially to provide breathing air from shop air. I expect
> Iggy can find one used for $25.
Or you could probably get an aquarium pump for about ten bucks. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Rich Grise
> Ignoramus29041 wrote:
>> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>> are of no importance whatsoever.
>
> excessive breathing difficulty caused by 'lung gunk',
> apparent by violent coughing and a 'crackly' noise
> when inhaling.
> "Lung Gunk" is fluid trapped in the lungs
> which gets progressively worse, can result in
> colored sputum but does not clear by itself.
>
with your torso hanging over the edge, so that you're not coughing
against gravity?
Did you try some hot chicken broth or a hot toddy to loosen the gunk?
In any case, I'm glad to hear that you got better. :-)
Cheers!
Rich
Rich Grise
Thanks,
Rich
Ignoramus29041
expect it to have any "bad stuff".
i
Rich Grise
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
Apparently so (see thread), but why? ?:-\
Thanks,
Rich
Pete C.
An aquarium pump isn't likely to supply sufficient volume.
Pete C.
O2 narcosis is unlikely at atmospheric pressure. It comes into play at
elevated pressure the same as nitrogen narcosis.
Pete C.
Same at the commercial diver school I visited. I even helped change out
a couple cylinders at the deco chamber we were using.
Pete C.
There is no issue breathing pure O2 at atmospheric pressure for modest
durations. Been there, done that.
Pete C.
My guess is to avoid breathing diesel exhaust in an enclosed trailer :)
CaveLamb
Mine too.
O2 from my friendly welding supply.
--
Richard Lamb
email me: cave...@earthlink.net
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
Rich Grise
> Rich Grise wrote:
>> Pete C. wrote:
>> >
>> > This a a notable risk, particularly if you plan to be breathing this
>> > pure O2 in proximity to a running engine. A safer option would be to
>> > breath air from your compressor via a proper filter. Such filters are
>> > available commercially to provide breathing air from shop air. I expect
>> > Iggy can find one used for $25.
>>
>> Or you could probably get an aquarium pump for about ten bucks. ;-)
>
OK, fair enough. What do I know anyway? ;-)
Thanks!
Rich
Rich Grise
> Rich Grise wrote:
>> Ignoramus29041 wrote:
>>
>> > can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>> > are of no importance whatsoever.
>>
>> I'd bubble it through water so your mucus membranes don't dry out. But
>> I'd have a care - I've heard (or read) that breathing pure O2 isn't all
>> that good for you.
>> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&source=hp&q=%22oxygen+narcosis%22&
>
> elevated pressure the same as nitrogen narcosis.
OK, thanks for this; but you _do_ agree with humidifying it, right?
Thanks,
Rich
Tin Lizzie DL
ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid says...
>
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
My trade instructor at work told us that welding oxygen is even more
pure than medical grade oxy.
A quick googling and it appears that "medical" grade oxy is only 93%
pure O2, and gets run through a humidifier to moisturize it. After all,
the normal air we breathe is only 21% or so.
As I understand it, the only real difference when buying different
grades of Oxygen is the insurance liability, not the purity of product,
since both come from the same bulk liquid O2 tank.
Long story short-- I would trust it.
--
Tin Lizzie
"Elephant- A mouse built to government specs." - Lazarus Long
CaveLamb
Easier said than done.
Just bubbling through water won't do a lot for it.
If there were a simple solution military jets would use it.
But 2 or 3 hours sucking cold O2 - you DRY, mon.
Larry Jaques
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
>can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>are of no importance whatsoever.
In a pinch, yes. But that's pure O2 and it's not good to breathe it
for long periods. You OD, some people convulse, etc. As nitrogen
breathers, HUmons only need a few percent of oxygen.
But, yeah, you could breathe it long enough to escape your teargassed
home. <knowing wink>
--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand
Pete C.
Not for short term use. Standard SCUBA air is very dry as well and is
not generally an issue, just a slight annoyance over a long series of
dives. There is one company that makes an add on humidifier device for
SCUBA regulators, but I don't think it's a particularly big seller. I
just keep a pocket size bottle of anesthetic throat spray in my gear bag
to cover any dry throat coughing.
Ernie Leimkuhler
Ignoramus29041 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
Many have commented so far.
let me add my 2 cents.
The O2 in a welding tank is the same as the O2 in a medical bottle.
That is an established industry standard.
HOWEVER...
Medical O2 bottles are certified CLEAN, industrial bottles are NOT.
I teach at the Divers Institute of Technology in Seattle.
A commercial diver training school.
We would NEVER use welding oxygen on a decompression chamber.
We have 2 active chambers on campus.
We use what are called APO bottles ( Aviator Provider Oxygen )
They look just like a large industrial oxygen cylinder, but are green
instead of blue and are are clearly marked on the tank label as
breathing oxygen.
If an APO bottle is ever used for a cutting torch it can NEVER be used
for medical oxygen again.
That happened on campus last year.
We had a cutting torch rigged up on the welding barge.
I looked up at the peer and saw a green bottle hooked up to my torch
and shut the whole operation down.
We had to call Central welding immediately and have them haul away the
tank to be decertified for medical use and restamped at the fill plant.
No joke.
I have used my cutting torch oxygen in the past to get over temporary
breathing difficulties from excessive aluminum oxide dust, but I never
breathed only the bottle oxygen.
I fed it into my cupped hand to mix with air.
Still makes me nervous not knowing who might have contaminated that
bottle in the past.
Acetylene is lethal to lung tissue.
GeoLane at PTD dot NET
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
>can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>are of no importance whatsoever.
To the best of my knowledge, it's the same chemical, but in the
hospital, they put a humidifier on the oxygen line. The plain gas is
very dry.
RWL
Ignoramus29041
totally wrong
Ignoramus29041
i
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Or a bit of helium.
Edward A. Falk
Ignoramus29041 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
>OK, thanks guys. Since oxygen is made by fractioning air, I would not
>expect it to have any "bad stuff".
I expect medical oxygen has stricter standards for purity and safety,
whereas welding oxygen can have any crap in it that the compressor
happened to pick up.
That said, you can pretty much count on grease and oils *not* being in
the mix.
Another interesting point: aviation oxygen has higher standards than
medical oxygen. Something to do with the allowable moisture content.
In practice, they're the same thing, but there's no guarantee it will
stay that way, so medical oxygen isn't allowed in aircraft.
--
-Ed Falk, fa...@despams.r.us.com
http://thespamdiaries.blogspot.com/
Pete C.
What you refer to is a mythical hazard. Putting 2,000+ PSI of pure O2 on
top of just about any contamination would be a serious hazard. If heard
similar worries about rust in an O2 cylinder, rust won't make it past
the inlet filter on the regulator and wouldn't harm you even if it did.
You simply will not get any contamination in welding grade O2 that will
harm you.
Larry Jaques
That depends on the aquarium. I've seen giant tanks whose air pumps
would blow your lungs out in a split second. (Try sucking down 350CFM
@40psi from a 5hp blower, Pete.)
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1027/Regenerative-Blowers-by-Sweetwater
Garrett Fulton
"Winston" wrote in message news:igirc...@news5.newsguy.com...
Ignoramus29041 wrote:
> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> are of no importance whatsoever.
I accept no liability for anyone else's actions.
However, yes.
YMMV.
--Winston
http://www.medicalacoustics.com/Lung-Flute
You might get one of the devices described in the link, Winston. The FDA
has finally approved this thing for sale in the US. I bought mine in
Germany, and it seems to loosen up the "lung gunk". I'm afflicted with that
anytime I've got a bad cold also. Big Time.
Garrett Fulton
Edward A. Falk
Pete C. <aux3....@snet.net> wrote:
>
>Ignoramus29041 wrote:
>>
>> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>> are of no importance whatsoever.
>
>than the standard for medical O2 (95%).
Heh, learn something every day. I stand corrected.
Rich Grise
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:16:22 -0800, Rich Grise
>>> Rich Grise wrote:
>>>> Pete C. wrote:
>>>> >
>>>> > This a a notable risk, particularly if you plan to be breathing this
>>>> > pure O2 in proximity to a running engine. A safer option would be to
>>>> > breath air from your compressor via a proper filter. Such filters are
>>>> > available commercially to provide breathing air from shop air. I
>>>> > expect Iggy can find one used for $25.
>>>>
>>>> Or you could probably get an aquarium pump for about ten bucks. ;-)
>>>
>>> An aquarium pump isn't likely to supply sufficient volume.
>>
>>OK, fair enough. What do I know anyway? ;-)
>
> That depends on the aquarium. I've seen giant tanks whose air pumps
> would blow your lungs out in a split second. (Try sucking down 350CFM
> @40psi from a 5hp blower, Pete.)
>
http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1027/Regenerative-Blowers-by-Sweetwater
>
pet store! ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Martin Eastburn
a pool across the blacktop highway or parking lot (delivery point)
will detonate the carbon if you walk on it or drive on it.
Rather tricky stuff - freeze you then blow you up!
Martin
Rich Grise
> Ernie Leimkuhler wrote:
>>
>> breathing difficulties from excessive aluminum oxide dust, but I never
>> breathed only the bottle oxygen.
>> I fed it into my cupped hand to mix with air.
>> Still makes me nervous not knowing who might have contaminated that
>> bottle in the past.
>>
>> Acetylene is lethal to lung tissue.
>
> What you refer to is a mythical hazard. Putting 2,000+ PSI of pure O2 on
> top of just about any contamination would be a serious hazard. If heard
> similar worries about rust in an O2 cylinder, rust won't make it past
> the inlet filter on the regulator and wouldn't harm you even if it did.
> You simply will not get any contamination in welding grade O2 that will
> harm you.
I'd tend to guess that the reason that the rule is so strict is because
when the tank goes empty, there's a non-zero chance that something other
than pharmaceutical oxygen might get into it.
Thanks,
Rich
DoN. Nichols
> rustyjames <jimbobm...@verizon.net> writes:
>
>> > can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>> > are of no importance whatsoever.
>>
>> company that it's the exact same oxygen; the only difference is the
>> medical oxygen has a chrome valve on the cylinder.
>
> I've wondered too what Iggy asked. Not as in "fair-weather choices"
> but what could be done in a difficult situation where no choice is
> ideal. Rustyjames comments - thanks. Any other takes on this?
I've spent some time sucking on an industrial tank of O2 when I
got a serious case of asthma from the smoke from a lot of rosin flux in
a fairly large solder pot (8x10" IIRC.)
It worked fine -- and I am still here about fourty years later.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Rich Grise
Well, come on then, Ig, what is it?
Thanks,
Rich
Rich Grise
Well, yeah, I guess I have to concede the point - my Dad used an O2
concentrator for awhile before he departed this mortal coil, and it didn't
have a bubbler, but he didn't have a mask or anything, just one of those
tubes with the little tubes in the nostrils, so he got some room air along
with the O2.
Thanks,
Rich
Rich Grise
>>> On Jan 11, 6:33 pm, Ignoramus29041 <ignoramus29...@NOSPAM.
>>> 29041.invalid> wrote:
>>>> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>>>> are of no importance whatsoever.
>>>
>>> You do not want to breathe pure oxygen, but welding oxygen can be
>>> substituted for medical oxygen.
>>>
>>I wonder what would happen if you mixed in a little argon.
>
Well, helium gives you that funny voice; interestingly, freon (before
the church of ozonism got it banned) makes you sound like James Earl Jones.
I figured argon is of a similar density to air, and wouldn't make you talk
so funny. I've also heard of them using a blend of He and SF6, to adjust
the density for deep diving.
Cheers!
Rich
pyotr filipivich
2011 17:33:23 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>are of no importance whatsoever.
Yes. There is nothing medical about oxygen in a tank marked "For
Medical Use" - other than the Blessing of the Bureaucrats.
o2 is o2 - there aren't going to be any "contaminates" in the
"Welding" oxygen, due to the ever so small detail hat Oxygen is an
oxidizer, and will react vigorously with any other elements it comes
in contact with. One of the reasons your are advised _not_ to grease
or oil any of the fittings on your oxygen line - even the ones used
just for welding.
--
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Steve B
> the mix.
Have you ever seen "USE NO OIL" in red letters on an oxygen regulator? That
is because oil is explosive when compressed with oxygen.
But you knew that, right?
Steve
Steve B
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <er...@stagesmith.com> wrote in message
news:110120111903148884%er...@stagesmith.com...
Unusual, Ernie. From 1974 to 1980, we used welding oxygen offshore in the
Gulf of Mexico for decompression. But then, the standards were looser
then, and we were using antiquated Navy diving charts, and there was VERY
little OSHA regulation. Oh, wait, OSHA does not apply past a few miles
offshore. I found that out after being injured one time. And you have to
be a documented seaman or assigned to a vessel before the Jones Act kicks
in.
Loopholes, loopholes, loopholes.
We did a lot of things that were outside the envelope, and I believe many
men paid the price later in their lives. I know I did.
Steve
Steve B
"Garrett Fulton" <lbfu...@windstream.net> wrote in message
news:cc4c4$4d2d1e21$471c6f87$62...@ALLTEL.NET...
About 1975, my friend found his two children passed out from CO poisoning.
They had gotten under a blanket on top of a heater register in his rented
trailer. We were just starting out after diving school, and worked for a
diving company, and he couldn't afford a doctor or ER. They were
unconscious and cyanotic. We took a short bottle of O2 and took the torch
off. We forced the oxygen into them through our cupped hands, allowing for
exhalation, and had the pressure about 5 psi. They started coming around
and breathing on their own. We put the kids in the back seat of his car,
and shot them over to the yard, and he got into a decompression chamber with
them. I ran the three of them down to forty feet. They stayed in about
half an hour, breathing O2 through the nasal masks. They came around, and
their cyanosis disappeared.
Did we do anything wrong? Probably. Did we save their lives? You bet.
Would we do it differently today? Maybe. I just know that at the time, we
were running 90, and it seemed the best thing to do. We had just come off
16 weeks of divers training that dealt with emergency diving situations,
CPR, the bends, central nervous hits, and hyperbaric scenarios.
Over the years, many divers went into our chambers in the yard who were
recovering from various injuries, myself included. Healing is speeded up by
hyperbaric exposure, and is used today for treating many afflictions, and
whole wings of hospitals are hyperbaric.
Steve
Winston
(...)
> Have you tried coughing "downhill?" Like, lie face down half on the bed,
> with your torso hanging over the edge, so that you're not coughing
> against gravity?
Didn't try that.
At last, a use for an 'inversion table'?
> Did you try some hot chicken broth or a hot toddy to loosen the gunk?
Didn't.
By that time, I figured I had to get some O2 or
I was gonna pass out again. Luckily for me, the
gear was in good shape and ready to go.
--Winston
Winston
(...)
> In any case, I'm glad to hear that you got better. :-)
Me, too. :)
Thanks Rich.
--Winston
David Lesher
>Another interesting point: aviation oxygen has higher standards than
>medical oxygen. Something to do with the allowable moisture content.
>In practice, they're the same thing, but there's no guarantee it will
>stay that way, so medical oxygen isn't allowed in aircraft.
But I recall someone got the FAA to admit in writing that there
was no legal basis [i.e FARS] prohibiting use of "welding"
O2 in aviation applications.
"Welding" O2 is drier than the Aviation spec, but I bet that is
a max moisture spec, not minimum. [I.e. the av-grade is likely
just as dry.]
--
A host is a host from coast to coast.................wb8foz@nrk.com
& no one will talk to a host that's close........[v].(301) 56-LINUX
Unless the host (that isn't close).........................pob 1433
is busy, hung or dead....................................20915-1433
Private
"Ernie Leimkuhler" <er...@stagesmith.com> wrote in message
news:110120111903148884%er...@stagesmith.com...
> I have used my cutting torch oxygen in the past to get over temporary
> breathing difficulties from excessive aluminum oxide dust, but I never
> breathed only the bottle oxygen.
> I fed it into my cupped hand to mix with air.
Welding O2 used like this is often used to kill a morning headache caused by
too much night before. Many mornings there would be a line-up at my rig.
Seems to work best when repeated at regular and lengthening intervals. Does
not take a lot to make a real (or at least perceived) difference. YMMV.
Medical O2 is not used for aviation breathing because it can contain
moisture and freeze at altitude. Use of welding O2 to recharge private
aviation tanks is very common, but of questionable legality depending on
many levels of regulation and if certification is required.
JMHE &.02, YMMV
Winston
(...)
> http://www.medicalacoustics.com/Lung-Flute
>
> You might get one of the devices described in the link, Winston. The FDA
> has finally approved this thing for sale in the US. I bought mine in
> Germany, and it seems to loosen up the "lung gunk". I'm afflicted with
> that anytime I've got a bad cold also. Big Time.
Thanks Garrett. That is a new one on me!
I expect the real value of that tool is in obtaining a diagnostic
sample rather than in clearing the lungs of fluid during a
'breathing emergency', in that the Japanese study showed that 20%
of participants were not able to expel any sputum while using the
device and best-case production was 5 ml.
It is a step in the right direction, though.
--Winston
CaveLamb
> fa...@rahul.net (Edward A. Falk) writes:
>
>
>> Another interesting point: aviation oxygen has higher standards than
>> medical oxygen. Something to do with the allowable moisture content.
>> In practice, they're the same thing, but there's no guarantee it will
>> stay that way, so medical oxygen isn't allowed in aircraft.
>
> But I recall someone got the FAA to admit in writing that there
> was no legal basis [i.e FARS] prohibiting use of "welding"
> O2 in aviation applications.
>
> "Welding" O2 is drier than the Aviation spec, but I bet that is
> a max moisture spec, not minimum. [I.e. the av-grade is likely
> just as dry.]
>
>
There is no freaking way one oxygen is "dryer" than any other
at tank pressure!
Sounds like another FAA con job...
--
Richard Lamb
email me: cave...@earthlink.net
web site: www.home.earthlink.net/~cavelamb
CaveLamb
Since I'm having problems with congestion right now I miss my O/A rig.
Don Foreman
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
>can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>are of no importance whatsoever.
Long term effects may seem more important when the doc gives you the
bad news years later.
In many cases, welding oxy and medical oxy come off the same manifold.
Medical oxy has a high standard of purity but it's often not
cost-effective to maintain different fill manifolds. Oxygen is
produced by distillation of liquid air in either case but some
filtering is applied to medical oxygen. Unfiltered LOX is still quite
pure unless the plant producing it draws its air from near an LA
freeway or something. Even then, the distillation process would
purify.
So, as a generality, welding oxy is safe to breath though there may be
exceptions. If you want certified safe, go with medical oxy. Pick
yer pony, take yer ride.
I've dealt with a few hangovers by sucking oxy from the welding tank,
and the oxygenated water I put in my minnow bucket made pedestrian
shiners into killer ninja "show me a walleye" vigorously active bait.
I was a smoker for many years so I regarded risk of sucking on the
welding oxy as negligable. So far so good, no news. I may outlive
Mary, who did everything right. Nobody said life would be fair.
Pete C.
Ignoramus29041 wrote:
> >>
> >> > can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> >> > are of no importance whatsoever.
> >>
> >
> > My guess is to avoid breathing diesel exhaust in an enclosed trailer :)
>
> totally wrong
Hangover remediation?
Pete C.
"Edward A. Falk" wrote:
>
> In article <ePmdnakwCqwun7DQ...@giganews.com>,
> Ignoramus29041 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
> >OK, thanks guys. Since oxygen is made by fractioning air, I would not
> >expect it to have any "bad stuff".
>
> I expect medical oxygen has stricter standards for purity and safety,
> whereas welding oxygen can have any crap in it that the compressor
> happened to pick up.
The welding O2 purity standard is stricter than the medical (USP) or
"Aviator" grades of O2, and by a notable amount. Impurities that will
not hurt a person breathing the O2 will screw up a critical weld.
Pete C.
Larry Jaques wrote:
>
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:16:22 -0800, Rich Grise
> <ri...@example.net.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Pete C. wrote:
> >> Rich Grise wrote:
> >>> Pete C. wrote:
> >>> >
> >>> > This a a notable risk, particularly if you plan to be breathing this
> >>> > pure O2 in proximity to a running engine. A safer option would be to
> >>> > breath air from your compressor via a proper filter. Such filters are
> >>> > available commercially to provide breathing air from shop air. I expect
> >>> > Iggy can find one used for $25.
> >>>
> >>> Or you could probably get an aquarium pump for about ten bucks. ;-)
> >>
> >> An aquarium pump isn't likely to supply sufficient volume.
> >
> >OK, fair enough. What do I know anyway? ;-)
>
> That depends on the aquarium. I've seen giant tanks whose air pumps
> would blow your lungs out in a split second. (Try sucking down 350CFM
> @40psi from a 5hp blower, Pete.)
> http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1027/Regenerative-Blowers-by-Sweetwater
Yea, that would do it, but would also do in your wallet as well... I've
got a 15HP, 15CFM, 4,000PSI SCUBA/SCBA compressor sitting out in my shop
waiting for me to get around to overhauling it.
Pete C.
I've never heard of SF6 being used in any breathing gas mixture, just HV
electrical switch gear. Diving with various blends of Oxygen, and
nitrogen and/or helium.
Pete C.
And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
to be a safety problem breathing the O2. If acetylene was toxic enough
to harm you at a tiny fraction of a percent, welders would be dropping
dead all over the place just from turning on the acetylene to light
their torches.
Pete C.
Don Foreman wrote:
>
> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 17:33:23 -0600, Ignoramus29041
> <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
>
> >can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
> >are of no importance whatsoever.
>
> Long term effects may seem more important when the doc gives you the
> bad news years later.
>
> In many cases, welding oxy and medical oxy come off the same manifold.
> Medical oxy has a high standard of purity but it's often not
> cost-effective to maintain different fill manifolds. Oxygen is
> produced by distillation of liquid air in either case but some
> filtering is applied to medical oxygen. Unfiltered LOX is still quite
> pure unless the plant producing it draws its air from near an LA
> freeway or something. Even then, the distillation process would
> purify.
The purity standard for welding O2 is higher than the purity standard
for medical O2. Only the analytical grade has a higher purity standard
and sees any additional testing.
Larry Jaques
Details, details...
--
The United States of America is the greatest, the
noblest and, in its original founding principles,
the only moral country in the history of the world.
-- Ayn Rand
Ignoramus8927
No.
A very sick person.
i
Ignoramus8927
> I was a smoker for many years so I regarded risk of sucking on the
> welding oxy as negligable. So far so good, no news. I may outlive
> Mary, who did everything right. Nobody said life would be fair.
Life is definitely not fair.
i
Karl Townsend
>I've dealt with a few hangovers by sucking oxy from the welding tank,
>and the oxygenated water I put in my minnow bucket made pedestrian
>shiners into killer ninja "show me a walleye" vigorously active bait.
!! Great idea. Anybody tried this with live shrimp? I see a trial
coming. FWIW, shrimp are extremely difficult to keep strong and
kicking without a very large live well and lots of fresh salt water
flow. Everything in the ocean loves to dine on shrimp.
Karl
axolotl
> A very sick person.
Iggy,
If the patient is Medicare aged, his or he doctor can arrange O2 at home
for as long as the patient needs it. It is covered by medicare and
transparent to the patient.
If you want a medical O2 tank for experimental purposes, I have one or
two home sized units for you here in Jersey.
Kevin Gallimore
Larry Jaques
wrote:
>
>Larry Jaques wrote:
>>
>> On Tue, 11 Jan 2011 18:16:22 -0800, Rich Grise
>> <ri...@example.net.invalid> wrote:
>>
>> >Pete C. wrote:
>> >> Rich Grise wrote:
>> >>> Pete C. wrote:
>> >>> >
>> >>> > This a a notable risk, particularly if you plan to be breathing this
>> >>> > pure O2 in proximity to a running engine. A safer option would be to
>> >>> > breath air from your compressor via a proper filter. Such filters are
>> >>> > available commercially to provide breathing air from shop air. I expect
>> >>> > Iggy can find one used for $25.
>> >>>
>> >>> Or you could probably get an aquarium pump for about ten bucks. ;-)
>> >>
>> >> An aquarium pump isn't likely to supply sufficient volume.
>> >
>> >OK, fair enough. What do I know anyway? ;-)
>>
>> That depends on the aquarium. I've seen giant tanks whose air pumps
>> would blow your lungs out in a split second. (Try sucking down 350CFM
>> @40psi from a 5hp blower, Pete.)
>> http://www.aquaticeco.com/subcategories/1027/Regenerative-Blowers-by-Sweetwater
>
>Yea, that would do it, but would also do in your wallet as well... I've
I own a lot of crowbars, but I'm certain that I couldn't get enough of
them into use to pry my wallet open for one of those pumps.
>got a 15HP, 15CFM, 4,000PSI SCUBA/SCBA compressor sitting out in my shop
>waiting for me to get around to overhauling it.
What'll that cost, I wonder?
Ignoramus8927
>
> Yea, that would do it, but would also do in your wallet as well... I've
> got a 15HP, 15CFM, 4,000PSI SCUBA/SCBA compressor sitting out in my shop
> waiting for me to get around to overhauling it.
Is that a military compressor?
Steve B
"Ignoramus8927" <ignora...@NOSPAM.8927.invalid> wrote in message
news:oKednZ4Dy6KUJrDQ...@giganews.com...
......... and there is no justice in the world. If every child could learn
that by age 5, the world would be a better place. But we get this idea that
life should be fair. "Johnny took my truck," wails Billy to Mom. Mom goes
and gets the truck back, smacks Johnny, and lectures him on fairness. Billy
witnesses this, and gets the idea that there is some central agency that
keeps things "fair". He progresses through life with this twisted thinking.
In life, he hires or retains many bottomfeeding lawyers at different times,
and has all sorts of legal incidents where he struggles for "fairness and
justice." Then he has incidents where he gets the short end of the stick,
and becomes neurotic, or worse, psychotic. Or homicidal.
Live isn't fair, and there's no justice in the world. People who get burned
by hot coffee get millions, and someone who is truly disabled by an accident
gets squadoosh.
It is comforting, though, for those of us who believe in an afterlife, that
everyone will have to give an accounting of all the times they raped their
fellow man, figuratively speaking, of course. Or maybe literally!
Steve
Pete C.
I suspect probably $1k or so for the necessary parts.
Pete C.
No, it's a commercial one as used at fire departments and dive shops.
Actually I believe it's rated to 6,000 PSI, though I don't really need
it that high to fill 3,000 PSI cylinders.
Pete Keillor
Except on some days, crazy speckled trout seem to prefer some form of
plastic. But if you're taking kids, or it's hot and you'd rather sit
and relax while watching a cork, I much prefer shrimp to lures. The
monday before Christmas, SWMBO caught a 23" speck on a sand eel jig.
That's her facebook pic now.
Pete Keillor
David Lesher
>> "Welding" O2 is drier than the Aviation spec, but I bet that is
>> a max moisture spec, not minimum. [I.e. the av-grade is likely
>> just as dry.]
>>
>>
>There is no freaking way one oxygen is "dryer" than any other
>at tank pressure!
>Sounds like another FAA con job...
You misunderstand. The FAA spec is {say} 94.5% dry.
But I suspect that is "AT LEAST 95.5%" ergo welding
gas at 97% passes.
David Lesher
>And if the fill plant doesn't vacuum out that potential contamination,
>particularly the most probably acetylene, before putting high pressure
>pure O2 on top of it, their fill plant will go BOOM! Any traces small
>enough to not be a safety problem at the fill plant are also too small
>to be a safety problem breathing the O2.
That's not the only fun you can have with compressed gas. I
recall that not once but twice, Koch Refining burned down the
CO2 plant attached to their refinery. We never figured out
how...
Ignoramus8927
>
> "Ignoramus8927" <ignora...@NOSPAM.8927.invalid> wrote in message
> news:oKednZ4Dy6KUJrDQ...@giganews.com...
>> On 2011-01-12, Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>>> I was a smoker for many years so I regarded risk of sucking on the
>>> welding oxy as negligable. So far so good, no news. I may outlive
>>> Mary, who did everything right. Nobody said life would be fair.
>>
>> Life is definitely not fair.
>>
>> i
>
> ......... and there is no justice in the world. If every child could learn
> that by age 5, the world would be a better place. But we get this idea that
> life should be fair. "Johnny took my truck," wails Billy to Mom. Mom goes
> and gets the truck back, smacks Johnny, and lectures him on fairness. Billy
> witnesses this, and gets the idea that there is some central agency that
> keeps things "fair". He progresses through life with this twisted thinking.
> In life, he hires or retains many bottomfeeding lawyers at different times,
> and has all sorts of legal incidents where he struggles for "fairness and
> justice." Then he has incidents where he gets the short end of the stick,
> and becomes neurotic, or worse, psychotic. Or homicidal.
Yep. I learned this at the age of 25. It was a revelation for me and
it really simplified my world view.
> Live isn't fair, and there's no justice in the world. People who get burned
> by hot coffee get millions, and someone who is truly disabled by an accident
> gets squadoosh.
Except that the woman who got burned by that hot coffee did not get
millions. She did not even get one million.
> It is comforting, though, for those of us who believe in an afterlife, that
> everyone will have to give an accounting of all the times they raped their
> fellow man, figuratively speaking, of course. Or maybe literally!
Yep, perhaps the paradise will have peepholes into hell, through which
the good men in paradise will rape the bad men in hell, or something.
i
Jim Stewart
> In article<vridnePVQ4tedbHQ...@giganews.com>,
> ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid says...
>>
>> can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>> are of no importance whatsoever.
>
> pure than medical grade oxy.
>
> A quick googling and it appears that "medical" grade oxy is only 93%
> pure O2, and gets run through a humidifier to moisturize it. After all,
> the normal air we breathe is only 21% or so.
>
> As I understand it, the only real difference when buying different
> grades of Oxygen is the insurance liability, not the purity of product,
> since both come from the same bulk liquid O2 tank.
>
> Long story short-- I would trust it.
Well, almost.
A minor concern might be tank contamination.
Welding O2 bottles get reused in an uncontrolled environment.
You might possibly end up with a welding bottle of oxygen that
was used in a lab and had something terrible backflowed into
it before the last filling....
Jim Stewart
> Putting LOX - liquid Oxygen that is - from a tanker -
> a pool across the blacktop highway or parking lot (delivery point)
> will detonate the carbon if you walk on it or drive on it.
>
> Rather tricky stuff - freeze you then blow you up!
And then happily blow up the engine of the fire
truck that responds..
Pete C.
They vacuum out the cylinders before refilling. Putting high pressure
pure O2 on top of an unknown gas is dangerous.
Steve B
"Ignoramus8927" <ignora...@NOSPAM.8927.invalid> wrote
> Except that the woman who got burned by that hot coffee did not get
> millions. She did not even get one million.
Yes, but you have to admit that a lot of people have gotten big bucks for
small injuries. Or perceived injuries and transgressions and "emotional
distress."
And a lot of walking wounded left the courtroom with empty pockets.
Knew I should have been more specific.
Steve
Too_Many_Tools
Too_Many_Tools
Pete Keillor
<ignora...@NOSPAM.8927.invalid> wrote:
>On 2011-01-12, Steve B <pittma...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> "Ignoramus8927" <ignora...@NOSPAM.8927.invalid> wrote in message
>> news:oKednZ4Dy6KUJrDQ...@giganews.com...
>>> On 2011-01-12, Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>>>> I was a smoker for many years so I regarded risk of sucking on the
>>>> welding oxy as negligable. So far so good, no news. I may outlive
>>>> Mary, who did everything right. Nobody said life would be fair.
>>>
>>> Life is definitely not fair.
>>>
>>> i
>>
>> ......... and there is no justice in the world. If every child could learn
>> that by age 5, the world would be a better place. But we get this idea that
>> life should be fair. "Johnny took my truck," wails Billy to Mom. Mom goes
>> and gets the truck back, smacks Johnny, and lectures him on fairness. Billy
>> witnesses this, and gets the idea that there is some central agency that
>> keeps things "fair". He progresses through life with this twisted thinking.
>> In life, he hires or retains many bottomfeeding lawyers at different times,
>> and has all sorts of legal incidents where he struggles for "fairness and
>> justice." Then he has incidents where he gets the short end of the stick,
>> and becomes neurotic, or worse, psychotic. Or homicidal.
>
>Yep. I learned this at the age of 25. It was a revelation for me and
>it really simplified my world view.
<snip>
My mother explained that to me the first time I ever whined "it isn't
fair". She said life wasn't fair and to get over it. I was maybe 5.
She had a pretty good grasp on raising all of us.
Pete Keillor
Pete C.
From my experience with the US legal system, working a lot with trial
lawyers and being on a jury or two, I'd say they come up with the
correct verdict about 25% of the time at best.
Ignoramus8927
>
>> Except that the woman who got burned by that hot coffee did not get
>> millions. She did not even get one million.
>
> Yes, but you have to admit that a lot of people have gotten big bucks for
> small injuries. Or perceived injuries and transgressions and "emotional
> distress."
Yes, I agree. It is not as bad as some think, but real.
> And a lot of walking wounded left the courtroom with empty pockets.
Also true.
Jim Wilkins
> ...>
> There is no freaking way one oxygen is "dryer" than any other
> at tank pressure!
If any water has condensed in the tank the contents will be at 100%
humidity for the ambient temperature, the same weight of water vapor
per volume as in saturated air outside the tank.
jsw
Jim Wilkins
> "Ignoramus8927" <ignoramus8...@NOSPAM.8927.invalid> wrote in message>
> > On 2011-01-12, Don Foreman <dfore...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
> >> ...Nobody said life would be fair.
> > Life is definitely not fair.
> > i
>
> ......... and there is no justice in the world. If every child could learn
> that by age 5, the world would be a better place. But we get this idea that
> life should be fair. "Johnny took my truck," wails Billy to Mom. Mom goes
> and gets the truck back, smacks Johnny, and lectures him on fairness. Billy
> witnesses this, and gets the idea that there is some central agency that
> keeps things "fair". He progresses through life with this twisted thinking.
> In life, he hires or retains many bottomfeeding lawyers at different times,
> and has all sorts of legal incidents where he struggles for "fairness and
> justice." Then he has incidents where he gets the short end of the stick,
> and becomes neurotic, or worse, psychotic. Or homicidal.
>
> Live isn't fair, and there's no justice in the world. People who get burned
> by hot coffee get millions, and someone who is truly disabled by an accident
> gets squadoosh.
>
> It is comforting, though, for those of us who believe in an afterlife, that
> everyone will have to give an accounting of all the times they raped their
> fellow man, figuratively speaking, of course. Or maybe literally!
>
> Steve
I read an essay describing your position as one of the unarguable,
fundamental differences between conservatives and liberals. The essay
said that the first child tends to consider the world fair and just
(or at least neutral), with absolutes of proper behavior, and
subsequent children were more likely to see it as actively unfair,
meaning that to them the end of their survival justifies any means,
especially pulling down others to attain relative superiority, while
the first child tries to improve themselves regardless of the status
of others.
That idea popped up again in a survey of fans of Dancing With The
Stars, which is considerably more popular on the Right, presumably as
it reinforces the belief that people can advance through their own
efforts. The author of that piece noted that the Left prefers to watch
dysfunctional characters they can feel superior to.
Rich Grise
>
> Yep, perhaps the paradise will have peepholes into hell, through which
> the good men in paradise will rape the bad men in hell, or something.
What good is "eternal bliss," when you're dead and can't feel it?
I wouldn't want to go to some imaginary white-on-white-on-white fantasyland
that's populated by self-righteous, excruciatingly boring prigs. I want to
go to where all the interesting, colorful, and downright FUN people are
going! >:->
Of course, I'll be dead, so it won't make much difference anyway. ;-)
Cheers!
Rich
Rich Grise
>
> My mother explained that to me the first time I ever whined "it isn't
> fair". She said life wasn't fair and to get over it. I was maybe 5.
> She had a pretty good grasp on raising all of us.
>
in half, and the other one pick which half he/she wants.
Cheers!
Rich
Rich Grise
aren't having any truck with such a conservative idea.
Thanks,
Rich
Wes
>can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>are of no importance whatsoever.
Years ago at another place, I had a few coworkers that would take big hits of the O2
bottle in the welding area. They said it helped with their hangovers.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
cl...@snyder.on.ca
<wb8...@panix.com> wrote:
>CaveLamb <cave...@earthlink.net> writes:
>
>>> "Welding" O2 is drier than the Aviation spec, but I bet that is
>>> a max moisture spec, not minimum. [I.e. the av-grade is likely
>>> just as dry.]
>>>
>>>
>
>
>>There is no freaking way one oxygen is "dryer" than any other
>>at tank pressure!
>
>>Sounds like another FAA con job...
>
>You misunderstand. The FAA spec is {say} 94.5% dry.
>But I suspect that is "AT LEAST 95.5%" ergo welding
>gas at 97% passes.
That's my read on it as well.
Ignoramus8927
> Ignoramus29041 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> wrote:
>
>>can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>>are of no importance whatsoever.
>
>
> Years ago at another place, I had a few coworkers that would take big hits of the O2
> bottle in the welding area. They said it helped with their hangovers.
>
> Wes
Wes (and Steve) this is an awesome idea. I will try it next time I
have a hangover.
i
Rich Grise
> On 2011-01-12, Don Foreman <dfor...@NOSPAMgoldengate.net> wrote:
>> I was a smoker for many years so I regarded risk of sucking on the
>> welding oxy as negligable. So far so good, no news. I may outlive
>> Mary, who did everything right. Nobody said life would be fair.
>
> Life is definitely not fair.
>
Tom Lehrer once quipped, "Life is like a sewer. What you get out of it
depends on what you put into it."
Cheers!
Rich
DoN. Nichols
> Ignoramus29041 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.29041.invalid> on Tue, 11 Jan
> 2011 17:33:23 -0600 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>can industrial welding oxygen be used to breathe. Long term effects
>>are of no importance whatsoever.
>
>
> Medical Use" - other than the Blessing of the Bureaucrats.
I remember once when my wife was in an emergency room holding
room noticing bottles marked:
"Distilled water -- Federal law prohibits dispensing without
prescription."
And what is medical about distilled water which should require
the control of a prescription? :-)
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Rich Grise
>
> That idea popped up again in a survey of fans of Dancing With The
> Stars, which is considerably more popular on the Right, presumably as
> it reinforces the belief that people can advance through their own
> efforts. The author of that piece noted that the Left prefers to watch
> dysfunctional characters they can feel superior to.
I watch some sitcoms, primarily because there's not much else to do on
a budget of zero dollars, and, like you said, to feel superior to the
psychos on the shows; but I find myself talking back at them - usually
something like "Well, why don't they just <some relatively sane thing>,"
and always realize, Heck, if they did the common-sense thing, they wouldn't
have a half-hour show to air! ;-)
Thanks!
Rich
Rich Grise
>
>>I've dealt with a few hangovers by sucking oxy from the welding tank,
>>and the oxygenated water I put in my minnow bucket made pedestrian
>>shiners into killer ninja "show me a walleye" vigorously active bait.
>
> !! Great idea. Anybody tried this with live shrimp? I see a trial
> coming. FWIW, shrimp are extremely difficult to keep strong and
> kicking without a very large live well and lots of fresh salt water
> flow. Everything in the ocean loves to dine on shrimp.
>
in fact, cure a hangover. I know this from personal experience. >:->
Cheers!
Rich