Pictures of welding on the jerry can -- converted to fuel tank
Ignoramus10998
http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Onan-20kw-Generator-20.0DL4-15R/02-Fuel-Tank/
The jerry can did not explode, as I filled it with water almost to the
level of where I was doing welding.
i
Ignoramus10998
fran...123
"Ignoramus10998" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10998.invalid> wrote in message
news:U_idnazStObsvo_W...@giganews.com...
My folks had an 8kw propane generator installed, I had to dig the trench
between the 120 gallon tank which has to have head space hence is often
called a 100 and the generator. When full it still won't last but about
five days blackout. I know diesel uses less especially at idle but you are
stating 20kw generator. How much fuel do you plan on having? Is the object
to fill in for rolling blackouts of a few hours due to uncertainty of the
future legislation of electric generation and the lack of risk takers to
build plants or is the object to protect the contents of a freezer full of
food after a hurricane or like event? Is there a like ordinance against
outside propane tanks? I know propane is a racket, the second fill may well
cost two and a half times the first.
I suppose you are going to paint it yellow for diesel. you can use oxygen
or argon fittings on those pipes for the lines coming out and a short hose
plugged when taking it to the fuel depot. That must be a newer version
jerry can mine have an approximate three inch opening with a spin off plug
on a chain.
I hope you aren't looking for compliments from aircraft grade welders about
those beads. Was this a clean off the paint first or after? or a little of
both?
Fran
Ignoramus10200
>
> "Ignoramus10998" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10998.invalid> wrote in message
> news:U_idnazStObsvo_W...@giganews.com...
>> Explanation follows on the website
>>
>> http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Onan-20kw-Generator-20.0DL4-15R/02-Fuel-Tank/
>>
>> The jerry can did not explode, as I filled it with water almost to the
>> level of where I was doing welding.
>>
>> i
>
> My folks had an 8kw propane generator installed, I had to dig the trench
> between the 120 gallon tank which has to have head space hence is often
> called a 100 and the generator. When full it still won't last but about
> five days blackout. I know diesel uses less especially at idle but you are
> stating 20kw generator. How much fuel do you plan on having? Is the object
> to fill in for rolling blackouts of a few hours due to uncertainty of the
> future legislation of electric generation and the lack of risk takers to
> build plants or is the object to protect the contents of a freezer full of
> food after a hurricane or like event? Is there a like ordinance against
> outside propane tanks? I know propane is a racket, the second fill may well
> cost two and a half times the first.
At present, I have approximately nine full jerry cans of diesel.
> I suppose you are going to paint it yellow for diesel. you can use oxygen
> or argon fittings on those pipes for the lines coming out and a short hose
> plugged when taking it to the fuel depot. That must be a newer version
> jerry can mine have an approximate three inch opening with a spin off plug
> on a chain.
I will just use barb fittings.
> I hope you aren't looking for compliments from aircraft grade welders about
> those beads. Was this a clean off the paint first or after? or a little of
> both?
A little bit of both, I hope that those welders do not notice. :)
In my defense though, there is fusion and wetting all around, it
seems.
i
Bob La Londe
news:xbSdnb90XLdvPY_W...@giganews.com...
> At present, I have approximately nine full jerry cans of diesel.
With an algaecide in the diesel right?
That's the biggest advantage of propane IMO. It stores well.
Ignoramus10200
> "Ignoramus10200" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote in message
> news:xbSdnb90XLdvPY_W...@giganews.com...
>
>> At present, I have approximately nine full jerry cans of diesel.
>
> With an algaecide in the diesel right?
I believe so. It's been a while and I may be wrong by now. I bought
one more can of algaecide and will put it in every one again.
The issue with algae is that it appears when there is water in fuel. I
do not believe that there is much in the fuel that I have.
> That's the biggest advantage of propane IMO. It stores well.
So does diesel fuel.
The generator can run about 5-8 hours on one jerry can. I will simply
refill the tank as necessary.
I did, at some point, buy a bigger tank, but I changed my mind about
using it due to fuel management and environmental concerns.
i
BobH
A diesel must do a lot better on fuel usage than a gasoline engine. I
had a 15 KW gasoline generator running a Dialarc 250 that would get
about an hour and a half on a 5 gallon tank of fuel. Have you checked
the fuel consumption under a load?
BobH
Ignoramus10200
I still have to wire it. I have a 10 kW electric room heater that I
made a while ago, it will make a nice test load.
See the above link for more extra pictures, I added pictures of
fittings that I put on the can. The purpose of tee fittings is to
maybe add a tank cleaning setup that would filter fuel through a
filter and water separator. Right now the extra outlets on tee
fittings are plugged.
i
William Wixon
"Ignoramus10200" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote in message
congrats and good luck.
seeing your photos made me wonder, if you lose the fuel line prime on the
generator do you have to go through a procedure (venting the line, etc.) to
reestablish the prime? just curious. on a compact diesel tractor if you
run the tank dry you have to go through a (hassle!) procedure to re-prime
the engine.
reason i was wondering, this group, people working on projects, exchanging
ideas, seeing your project made me wonder, made me think, if i ever needed
to plumb up a bunch (9) fuel tanks (are ALL your jerry cans EXACTLY the
same?) i think i'd try to make a fitting (clamp on seal, feed, return and
vent) that goes onto the fuel filler neck, so i wouldn't have to modify the
can itself at all, but that would necessitate repriming the engine every
time i needed to change cans or refill the can. i'm not criticizing your
project. i'm just wondering out loud, after seeing your project, if it
would be possible. an exchange of ideas, modifying someone else's work.
b.w.
RLM
A gasoline or propane engines burn fuel at near a 14 to 1 fuel to
air ratio. Diesel burns at near a 100 to 1 fuel to air ratio.
Ignoramus10200
> seeing your photos made me wonder, if you lose the fuel line prime on the
> generator do you have to go through a procedure (venting the line, etc.) to
> reestablish the prime? just curious. on a compact diesel tractor if you
> run the tank dry you have to go through a (hassle!) procedure to re-prime
> the engine.
This generator generally sucks in much more fuel, than it actually
consumes, at least under light load. It returns the excess back to the
tank via the return line.
Thus, it can work through and keep running, even if it has a lot of
air in the incoming line. It uses its fuel and returns the air back
into the tank.
For example, right now I have a 10 foot long fuel line, and it had no
problem at all starting and continuing to run, even when the entire
line was empty when I just connected this new fuel line.
> reason i was wondering, this group, people working on projects,
> exchanging ideas, seeing your project made me wonder, made me think,
> if i ever needed to plumb up a bunch (9) fuel tanks (are ALL your
> jerry cans EXACTLY the same?)
No, they are different.
> i think i'd try to make a fitting
> (clamp on seal, feed, return and vent) that goes onto the fuel
> filler neck, so i wouldn't have to modify the can itself at all, but
> that would necessitate repriming the engine every time i needed to
> change cans or refill the can. i'm not criticizing your project.
> i'm just wondering out loud, after seeing your project, if it would
> be possible. an exchange of ideas, modifying someone else's work.
The diesels that I have seen, are very good at repriming themselves if
there is still some fuel in the fuel filter, injection pump etc. They
would get rid of the trapped air in short order. My familiarity is
with Cummins/Onan and Kubota engines that I bought, used and sold.
This Onan also easily primes itself from fully empty, after a bit of
cranking.
I personally want to have one jerry can as fuel tank, and just refill
it as necessary, even while the generator is still running.
I have a big Racor fuel filter, which I want to put in the incoming
line, with a fine 2 micron element in it. It will both filter the
fuel, as well as separate water from diesel.
My immediate plan is to make a welded frame from 1/2" pipes, that
would be the skeleton of the enclosure. After that is done, I will
have a good place to mount this Racor filter.
i
DanG
Maybe my stuff is older, but I've sure had to bleed injectors on
different tractors and trucks to get them to fire if someone ever
let them run out of fuel.
--
______________________________
Keep the whole world singing . . . .
DanG (remove the sevens)
dgri...@7cox.net
"Ignoramus10200" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote in
message news:j5OdnazDb_yTWo_W...@giganews.com...
Pete C.
Ignoramus10200 wrote:
>
> On 2009-11-29, fran...123 <storkenst...@cox.net> wrote:
> >
> > "Ignoramus10998" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10998.invalid> wrote in message
> > news:U_idnazStObsvo_W...@giganews.com...
> >> Explanation follows on the website
> >>
> >> http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Onan-20kw-Generator-20.0DL4-15R/02-Fuel-Tank/
> >>
> >> The jerry can did not explode, as I filled it with water almost to the
> >> level of where I was doing welding.
> >>
> >> i
> >
> > My folks had an 8kw propane generator installed, I had to dig the trench
> > between the 120 gallon tank which has to have head space hence is often
> > called a 100 and the generator. When full it still won't last but about
> > five days blackout. I know diesel uses less especially at idle but you are
> > stating 20kw generator. How much fuel do you plan on having? Is the object
> > to fill in for rolling blackouts of a few hours due to uncertainty of the
> > future legislation of electric generation and the lack of risk takers to
> > build plants or is the object to protect the contents of a freezer full of
> > food after a hurricane or like event? Is there a like ordinance against
> > outside propane tanks? I know propane is a racket, the second fill may well
> > cost two and a half times the first.
>
> At present, I have approximately nine full jerry cans of diesel.
That will last you around 36 hours or so, presuming like most houses
your base load has the generator at idle and only slightly of idle for
heat/oven/etc.
Pete C.
Put a 55 gal poly (no rust) drum inside one of the 65 gal overpack drums
and you'll have a nice safe fuel tank with full secondary containment.
Ignoramus10200
Sounds about right. On the other hand, it does not need to run
continuously. In a terrible emergency, I would ration fuel, in a small
emergency, I would just buy more fuel when I run low.
i
Gunner Asch
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote:
>
>> I hope you aren't looking for compliments from aircraft grade welders about
>> those beads. Was this a clean off the paint first or after? or a little of
>> both?
>
>A little bit of both, I hope that those welders do not notice. :)
>
>In my defense though, there is fusion and wetting all around, it
>seems.
I think...that brazing may have been a better choice for those tubes.
Or TIG.
Shrug
As long as it works.
Shrug again.
Gunner
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
I think our dog is a Democrat, as he is always looking for a handout"
Unknown Usnet Poster
Heh, heh, I'm pretty sure my dog is a liberal - he has no balls.
Keyton
Ignoramus10200
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:27:30 -0600, Ignoramus10200
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote:
>
>>
>>> I hope you aren't looking for compliments from aircraft grade welders about
>>> those beads. Was this a clean off the paint first or after? or a little of
>>> both?
>>
>>A little bit of both, I hope that those welders do not notice. :)
>>
>>In my defense though, there is fusion and wetting all around, it
>>seems.
>
>
> I think...that brazing may have been a better choice for those tubes.
>
> Or TIG.
Well, that was TIG.
i
Gunner Asch
A good response. One seldmon needs to run the genny continiously. The
actual needs may vary..but the only thing that actually needs power is
the fridge..and that will slow as your house cools. You can always
dress warmer, or close down the majority of your home and live in one or
two rooms. One of the advantages of living where it seldom freezes as I
do. Coleman lanterns for light and heat, cook on a Coleman type stove if
you have electric appliences, or gas if you have natural gas.
It will also run forced air furnace if thats what you have, but
....closing down most of the house for an extended period is better and
including the kitchen as one of the live in rooms makes a great deal of
sense.
Put down cots or move a bed into your kitchen, after moving out the
tables and chairs if you have the room.,,,this assuming you have gas
appliences rather than electric (yuck!)
If you are in a hard freeze location and expect to be without power for
an extended period of time...drain your water lines, so the house can
freeze but for those couple rooms.
Having a genset is only part of the plan for surviving a power
failure..not the whole enchilada.
One thing that most folks dont realize..is that gasoline gennies can be
run on natural gas very very easily for very long periods of time. There
are many many sites out there that will show you how to modify a carby
so it will run on natural gas instead of..or as a multifuel
genny...running on both gasoline and natural gas/lp gas.
Even a small genny can be useful when it only runs a furnace and fridge
and lights, And run from natural gas..the single most reliable
utility....they can run for vary long periods of time with no issues.
http://www.theepicenter.com/tow102899.html
http://buildwrite.blogspot.com/2008/09/converting-gasoline-generator-to.html
Diesel to natural gas is also possible, but can be exceptionally
expensive.
Converting a gasoline engine can be done for as little as a few hours
and $30...unfortunately converting diesel to natural gas is far more
expensive.
Ignoramus10200
> I am glad for your sake that you don't have a priming problem.
> Maybe my stuff is older, but I've sure had to bleed injectors on
> different tractors and trucks to get them to fire if someone ever
> let them run out of fuel.
>
Maybe it would also apply to me if I ran out of fuel, as well. But if
I simply have a lot of air in the system, the generator works through
that.
i
Gunner Asch
Oh...ahum. Sorry.
Try brazing next time..with your Tig torch.
Works amazingly well.
Ignoramus10200
> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 15:30:53 -0600, Ignoramus10200
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2009-11-29, Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>>> On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 10:27:30 -0600, Ignoramus10200
>>><ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>
>>>>> I hope you aren't looking for compliments from aircraft grade welders about
>>>>> those beads. Was this a clean off the paint first or after? or a little of
>>>>> both?
>>>>
>>>>A little bit of both, I hope that those welders do not notice. :)
>>>>
>>>>In my defense though, there is fusion and wetting all around, it
>>>>seems.
>>>
>>>
>>> I think...that brazing may have been a better choice for those tubes.
>>>
>>> Or TIG.
>>
>>Well, that was TIG.
>>
>>i
>
> Oh...ahum. Sorry.
>
> Try brazing next time..with your Tig torch.
>
> Works amazingly well.
I will definitely try that, yes. I have a bunch of silicon bronze.
i
Ignoramus10200
>
> Since you have multiple jerry cans why modify one can to accept the
> fuel lines instead of making a fitting for the lines that would fit
> into the spout opening ? That way you could simply move the lines from
> an empty can to a full one. For the few seconds it would take to move
> over you wouldn't get enough air into the system to losse prime in the
> pump. I've seem military geenys that used this setup & I've done
> similar for for gas fired gensets.
I have many different kinds of gas cans. It would not work.
I had a 100 gallon tank, also, but sold it.
i
Gunner Asch
<how...@REMOVECAPShfx.eastlink.ca> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 01:32:01 -0600, Ignoramus10998
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.10998.invalid> wrote:
>
>Nice job Iggy, but a question-
>
>Since you have multiple jerry cans why modify one can to accept the
>fuel lines instead of making a fitting for the lines that would fit
>into the spout opening ? That way you could simply move the lines from
>an empty can to a full one. For the few seconds it would take to move
>over you wouldn't get enough air into the system to losse prime in the
>pump. I've seem military geenys that used this setup & I've done
>similar for for gas fired gensets.
>
>
>Enquiring Minds Want To Know
>
>H.
Or why not simply make a "gas cap" that can be transfered from tank to
tank..the cap of course containing all the lines?
All it would need is a plain shank and perhaps an O-ring at the most.
Wes
>Sounds about right. On the other hand, it does not need to run
>continuously. In a terrible emergency, I would ration fuel, in a small
>emergency, I would just buy more fuel when I run low.
Keeping food cold, water to flush and drink, power to run furnace blower. All those
things can be cycled.
You hook up power to the fridge, wait for the thermostat to kick out, turn off generator.
Pick an interval for powering generator.
Being able to watch tv and other stuff doesn't matter. Light a colemen lantern and read a
book in the mean time.
Okay, charge your laptop, recharge the ups running your dsl router so you can stay
connected between generator starts. Maybe charge the iPhone too.
Power off a bit too long, get your AK out.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Ignoramus10200
> Or why not simply make a "gas cap" that can be transfered from tank to
> tank..the cap of course containing all the lines?
>
> All it would need is a plain shank and perhaps an O-ring at the most.
1) I have all different jerry cans, most are steel ex-military
2) I had this setup with a cap and lines (can take pictures), and hated it
3) Transferring lines means shutting down the generator, which I would
like to avoid.
Wes
>One thing that most folks dont realize..is that gasoline gennies can be
>run on natural gas very very easily for very long periods of time. There
>are many many sites out there that will show you how to modify a carby
>so it will run on natural gas instead of..or as a multifuel
>genny...running on both gasoline and natural gas/lp gas.
You get desparate enough, you can stand in front of it modulating a valve. I ran a V8
engine once by pulling the metering jet out of a propane torch and feeding gas up the line
to my vacuum gage. I didn't need to go far and it sure beat walking.
Pete C.
The last good ice storm we had before I left the frozen northeast had my
generator running for 3.5 days.
Pete C.
The nice thing about a diesel set when I was in the northeast was the
275 gal backup tank in the basement to supplement the 55 gal I had with
the generator. I had it setup with hydraulic type quick connects and a
long fuel hose so if the 55 gal got low I could switch it to pumping
from the 275 gal, with the return still going to the 55 gal and in an
hour of so the 55 gal would be refilled and I could switch back.
Pete C.
Wes wrote:
>
> Ignoramus10200 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote:
>
> >Sounds about right. On the other hand, it does not need to run
> >continuously. In a terrible emergency, I would ration fuel, in a small
> >emergency, I would just buy more fuel when I run low.
>
> Keeping food cold, water to flush and drink, power to run furnace blower. All those
> things can be cycled.
>
> You hook up power to the fridge, wait for the thermostat to kick out, turn off generator.
>
> Pick an interval for powering generator.
>
> Being able to watch tv and other stuff doesn't matter. Light a colemen lantern and read a
> book in the mean time.
>
> Okay, charge your laptop, recharge the ups running your dsl router so you can stay
> connected between generator starts. Maybe charge the iPhone too.
>
> Power off a bit too long, get your AK out.
Rationing fuel is ok if you have reason to expect a really long outage,
but for the more normal day or so max it's easier to just run the
generator full time and get on with your life as if there was no outage.
Pete C.
A day tank on the generator and hydraulic quick connect fittings on the
fuel lines and tanks works well with no shutdowns.
Ignoramus10200
> Ignoramus10200 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Sounds about right. On the other hand, it does not need to run
>>continuously. In a terrible emergency, I would ration fuel, in a small
>>emergency, I would just buy more fuel when I run low.
>
> Keeping food cold, water to flush and drink, power to run furnace blower. All those
> things can be cycled.
>
> You hook up power to the fridge, wait for the thermostat to kick out, turn off generator.
>
> Pick an interval for powering generator.
>
> Being able to watch tv and other stuff doesn't matter. Light a
> colemen lantern and read a book in the mean time.
>
> Okay, charge your laptop, recharge the ups running your dsl router so you can stay
> connected between generator starts. Maybe charge the iPhone too.
>
> Power off a bit too long, get your AK out.
This is exactly my thinking, except the AK comes out as soon as the
power is out.
As long as I can buy fuel within so many miles, I will just buy fuel,
but if not, I will ration the use of the generator.
I also hope that I can get my neighbors to pay for, and buy, the fuel,
in exchange for a 15 amp line to them.
i
Larry Jaques
<storkenst...@cox.net> scrawled the following:
>
>"Ignoramus10998" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10998.invalid> wrote in message
>news:U_idnazStObsvo_W...@giganews.com...
>> Explanation follows on the website
>>
>> http://igor.chudov.com/projects/Onan-20kw-Generator-20.0DL4-15R/02-Fuel-Tank/
>>
>> The jerry can did not explode, as I filled it with water almost to the
>> level of where I was doing welding.
>
>I hope you aren't looking for compliments from aircraft grade welders about
>those beads. Was this a clean off the paint first or after? or a little of
>both?
Har! I was thinking the same thing. "Egad, that looks like MY
welding!" Methinks Ig should do the work first, THEN have happy hour,
don't you? I simply _love_ that sprayed goop in the 0025 pic!
(Ig, you've done better work. <g> )
--
Some days, it's not even worth chewing through the restraints.
Gunner Asch
Your not planning on running it non stop are you? The fuel will run out
in..what 36 hours?
Blink blink.....thats not very smart..is it?
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Oooo...very nice!
Did it run well on "fuel oil"?
Gunner Asch
wrote:
>
But do you know if its going to come back on in an hour, a day, a week,
a month and so forth? Or is it simply "hope"? <G>
My power was out Friday night..er..Saturday morning at 2:18 and stayed
out for 10 hours.
First rain of the season did it. As it always does here in the desert.
Transformers etc etc dry out in the summer and the first wet we
get...poof..
It was between 5 and 15 seconds from the time the rain started to Poof!
Took out about a 1/4 mile radius best as I can tell..about a 1/2 mile
"square". I simply fired up a Coleman lantern..put it in the bathroom
for the ol lady..and used two more and worked in my reloading shop for a
few hours before going to bed.
Didnt bother firing up the genny..gas is in short supply at the moment.
Shrug
pyotr filipivich
about Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:52:33 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>>> Power off a bit too long, get your AK out.
>>
>>Rationing fuel is ok if you have reason to expect a really long outage,
>>but for the more normal day or so max it's easier to just run the
>>generator full time and get on with your life as if there was no outage.
>
>
>But do you know if its going to come back on in an hour, a day, a week,
>a month and so forth? Or is it simply "hope"? <G>
>
>My power was out Friday night..er..Saturday morning at 2:18 and stayed
>out for 10 hours.
Couple years ago, the power went out at home. A fact I did not
find out until after work - at 1 AM. Was out for four days. Most of
that was no problem, power was on at school and work. And I had a gas
grill on the "patio" so I could cook dinner. (Grilled Lamb chops,
with honey mustard ... yum!"
But finding my way home the first night, in a hall where the
emergency lights had given up hours before - was "fun".
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Gunner Asch
How well did the fridge do?
Gunner
>
>-
>pyotr filipivich
>We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
>It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
Stormin Mormon
electric usage. If you try to run your toaster oven, hair
dryer, and filament space heaters, you go through fuel at a
rapid rate.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"fran...123" <storkenst...@cox.net> wrote in message
news:M_wQm.81748$Wf2....@newsfe23.iad...
Stormin Mormon
would do an actual test, and let us know how it worked.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4b12d094$0$14846$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Stormin Mormon
Since you're not driving your genrator down the road, it's
legal. One farmer friend of mine used to use home heating
oil in the diesel engine of his farm tractor. A 275 gal tank
of fuel oil might be legal in your area.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ignoramus10200" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote
in message
news:qIednbeQy8TFhI7W...@giganews.com...
Stormin Mormon
running? Sounds reasonable to me.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ignoramus10200" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote
in message
news:FeGdnfZP377who7W...@giganews.com...
Stormin Mormon
pound propane tank. I'm sure it can, but I havn't the time
or the need to try it.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:HYEQm.299787$Jp1....@en-nntp-02.dc1.easynews.com...
Stormin Mormon
having a generator, for sure.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4b132bb5$0$14839$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Stormin Mormon
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4b132c89$0$14856$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Stormin Mormon
replace the fuel last time, and now I don't have enough fuel
to be able to share power. Sorry. I'm almost out."
Or, you can call them worthless leeches, and tell them to go
figure out their own problem.
I've known two people who had power out, due to a decaying
lead in wire. One was able to run power from a neighbor, the
other was not.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ignoramus10200" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote
in message
news:kYKdnbhjP5RfqY7W...@giganews.com...
Larry Jaques
<ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> scrawled the following:
>On 2009-11-30, Wes <clu...@lycos.com> wrote:
>> Ignoramus10200 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.10200.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>Sounds about right. On the other hand, it does not need to run
>>>continuously. In a terrible emergency, I would ration fuel, in a small
>>>emergency, I would just buy more fuel when I run low.
>>
>> Keeping food cold, water to flush and drink, power to run furnace blower. All those
>> things can be cycled.
>>
>> You hook up power to the fridge, wait for the thermostat to kick out, turn off generator.
>>
>> Pick an interval for powering generator.
>>
>> Being able to watch tv and other stuff doesn't matter. Light a
>> colemen lantern and read a book in the mean time.
>>
>> Okay, charge your laptop, recharge the ups running your dsl router so you can stay
>> connected between generator starts. Maybe charge the iPhone too.
>>
>> Power off a bit too long, get your AK out.
>
>This is exactly my thinking, except the AK comes out as soon as the
>power is out.
Good idea. It regulates any possible home invasion scenario, too. Do
you have night vision tool to use with it in that eventuality?
>As long as I can buy fuel within so many miles, I will just buy fuel,
>but if not, I will ration the use of the generator.
What will the gas station attendants think of the AK on the passenger
seat, Ig, _especially_ in IL? BTW, is your garage door opener circuit
in the generator section of the transfer switch?
>I also hope that I can get my neighbors to pay for, and buy, the fuel,
>in exchange for a 15 amp line to them.
Good luck with that one. They'll be blowing your breakers in no time.
"Well, she just wanted to dry her hair..."
Ignoramus2298
> During a blackout, you're supposed to scale way back on the
> electric usage. If you try to run your toaster oven, hair
> dryer, and filament space heaters, you go through fuel at a
> rapid rate.
>
You can buy fuel at gas stations. So far, all blackouts in our area,
left fuel supply mostly undisturbed. (except for a few local gas
stations).
i
Ignoramus2298
> would do an actual test, and let us know how it worked.
>
I believe that it is slightly under 1 gallon per hour, based on
interpolation of a table in the manual.
Ignoramus2298
> You figure to top off the gerry can while the generator is running?
> Sounds reasonable to me.
>
Sounds perfectly reasonable to me, too.
i
Ignoramus2298
> What will the gas station attendants think of the AK on the passenger
> seat, Ig, _especially_ in IL? BTW, is your garage door opener circuit
> in the generator section of the transfer switch?
I want the whole house to be on the generator.
I do not like the idea of little transfer switches, they will not work
for me.
i
Pete C.
No complaints. #2 fuel oil = #2 diesel - transportation fuel taxes. In
the northeast it also has the appropriate winter blend since some folks
have outdoor tanks.
Pete C.
The places I have lived have had pretty predictable outages. With no
inclement weather and outage was usually from some idiot hitting a pole
and lasted a couple hours at most. With heavy rain and lightning,
perhaps an 8hr run at most. With a noreaster ice storm snapping stuff
left and right, a few days at most.
Stormin Mormon
out most of the gas station power.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ignoramus2298" <ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote in
message
news:IradnbXNupl1TI7W...@giganews.com...
Pete C.
Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> During a blackout, you're supposed to scale way back on the
> electric usage. If you try to run your toaster oven, hair
> dryer, and filament space heaters, you go through fuel at a
> rapid rate.
Not with a 20kW diesel generator. In most cases, running the oven,
clothes dryer and all the lights in the house barely gets you to half
load.
Ignoramus2298
This is the point of having a generator of this size, I will be able
to run basically whatever I want, maybe going easy on the electric
range.
i
Pete C.
Don't worry about it. I've run just fine cooking and baking and running
the oil furnace off a 5kW gas generator.
Gunner Asch
"so far": is not something to depend on, you think?
Gunner
Stormin Mormon
want to scale back the electric usage when on generator.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4b13f2a1$0$9066$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Stormin Mormon
with an oversized generator could share some power with
neighbors, in exchange for them providing fuel and some
cash.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4b13edbd$0$9068$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
Ignoramus2298
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:08:40 -0600, Ignoramus2298
><ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2009-11-30, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> During a blackout, you're supposed to scale way back on the
>>> electric usage. If you try to run your toaster oven, hair
>>> dryer, and filament space heaters, you go through fuel at a
>>> rapid rate.
>>>
>>
>>You can buy fuel at gas stations. So far, all blackouts in our area,
>>left fuel supply mostly undisturbed. (except for a few local gas
>>stations).
>>
>>i
> "so far": is not something to depend on, you think?
Well, if I cannot buy fuel, I will try to run the generator only
intermittently. I do not see this as a big issue.
i
Ignoramus2298
> with an oversized generator could share some power with
> neighbors, in exchange for them providing fuel and some
> cash.
>
This is my hope. I do not particularly want to make money from
neighbors, but if I can get them to share the cost of fuel, it would
be great, especially if travel is involved to get fuel.
i
Pete C.
Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> I'm always concerned about running out of gasoline. So, I'd
> want to scale back the electric usage when on generator.
I just ramp up my fuel reserves.
Bruce L. Bergman
<gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>On Sun, 29 Nov 2009 20:23:05 -0600, "Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net>
>wrote:
>>The nice thing about a diesel set when I was in the northeast was the
>>275 gal backup tank in the basement to supplement the 55 gal I had with
>>the generator. I had it setup with hydraulic type quick connects and a
>>long fuel hose so if the 55 gal got low I could switch it to pumping
>>from the 275 gal, with the return still going to the 55 gal and in an
>>hour of so the 55 gal would be refilled and I could switch back.
>
>Oooo...very nice!
>
>Did it run well on "fuel oil"?
Should run just fine - #2 Distillate Fuel Oil is the same thing as
#2 diesel fuel.
But they usually sell you the Red Dye #2 Farm Diesel for Fuel Oil -
the red signifying that you did NOT pay state or federal road taxes on
the fuel. So when the CHP checks the fuel filters on the farmers'
Kenworth hauling produce into town and sees the red dye in the fuel,
he is busted. If it's on the highway, you have to pay the taxes.
(Boilers and Farm Tractors stay off the highways for the most part.)
--<< Bruce >>--
Michael A. Terrell
Not always. In a real emergency, that fuel may be taken by the city
or county for emergency vehicles. There have been up to three week
interruptions in fuel delivery during and after a hurricane. The county
had a one week supply, so crews were sent out to pump out the tanks of
stations with no electricity. It was replaced when the first tankers
started to arrive.
--
The movie 'Deliverance' isn't a documentary!
Ignoramus2298
I am not sure how many times I said this, but in this unlikely "real
emergency" I would only run the generator sporadically.
We do not have hurricanes here in Illinois.
i
Stormin Mormon
do SOMETHING for their own benefit. Even if you have to
invent hokey stuff like bring a quart of CD rated diesel oil
for my machine, or five galons of diesel. If you set up as
Iggys Power and Light, people begin to expect it, and then
they get crabby if you aren't there fast enough, or if you
run out of fuel when "they need" power.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Ignoramus2298" <ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote in
message
news:X6GdnaafcYw3Z47W...@giganews.com...
Stormin Mormon
spooky to have the government moving in on private business
like that. Hope they at least got permission.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
message
news:XMGdnY2En-0CyYnW...@earthlink.com...
pyotr filipivich
about Mon, 30 Nov 2009 03:46:47 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 01:00:04 -0800, pyotr filipivich
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> on or
>>about Sun, 29 Nov 2009 22:52:33 -0800 did write/type or cause to
>>appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>
>>>>> Power off a bit too long, get your AK out.
>>>>
>>>>Rationing fuel is ok if you have reason to expect a really long outage,
>>>>but for the more normal day or so max it's easier to just run the
>>>>generator full time and get on with your life as if there was no outage.
>>>
>>>
>>>But do you know if its going to come back on in an hour, a day, a week,
>>>a month and so forth? Or is it simply "hope"? <G>
>>>
>>>My power was out Friday night..er..Saturday morning at 2:18 and stayed
>>>out for 10 hours.
>>
>>find out until after work - at 1 AM. Was out for four days. Most of
>>that was no problem, power was on at school and work. And I had a gas
>>grill on the "patio" so I could cook dinner. (Grilled Lamb chops,
>>with honey mustard ... yum!"
>>
>> But finding my way home the first night, in a hall where the
>>emergency lights had given up hours before - was "fun".
>>
>>pyotr
>
>How well did the fridge do?
I left it close. It being winter, it wasn't a "big" problem.
Of course, if the power had stayed off till the weekend, I would
have had to do "something" about the problem.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
Stormin Mormon
technique.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
>
Jim Wilkins
<cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> How did you find your way out? We can learn from your
> technique.
> > But finding my way home the first night, in a hall where
> > the
> >emergency lights had given up hours before - was "fun".
>
> >pyotr-
If you think the situation is likely, count the number of steps on
stairs and short, deliberate paces down a hall.
Steve B
"Ignoramus2298" <ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote in message
"so far"
Gunner Asch
<ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote:
>On 2009-11-30, Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:08:40 -0600, Ignoramus2298
>><ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2009-11-30, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> During a blackout, you're supposed to scale way back on the
>>>> electric usage. If you try to run your toaster oven, hair
>>>> dryer, and filament space heaters, you go through fuel at a
>>>> rapid rate.
>>>>
>>>
>>>You can buy fuel at gas stations. So far, all blackouts in our area,
>>>left fuel supply mostly undisturbed. (except for a few local gas
>>>stations).
>>>
>>>i
>> "so far": is not something to depend on, you think?
>
>Well, if I cannot buy fuel, I will try to run the generator only
>intermittently. I do not see this as a big issue.
>
>i
My...but thats helpful thinking and planning..no?
You will never be a survivalist with that lsort of mindset.
Just a victim.
Bummer
Gunner Asch
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Sounds like the device is over sized. Sound like a person
>with an oversized generator could share some power with
>neighbors, in exchange for them providing fuel and some
>cash.
yes indeed.
Seems the fellow has chosen a Mack truck to run to the grocery store in.
2 miles to the gallon...but it has plenty of power.
Gerald Miller
wrote:
Up here in the frozen north, a guy I worked with had a space heater in
the garage where he parked his diesel car. That space heater used a
lot of fuel oil even in mid summer!
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
Gunner Asch
One assumes you dont have a refinery in the back yard?
Ignoramus2298
We had a few big ice storms. Whole big areas, maybe half county size,
were without electricity for days.
That, to me, is the kind of situation when fuel is available, perhaps
at the expense of a trip to a gas station 20 miles away.
i
Ignoramus2298
> My...but thats helpful thinking and planning..no?
It is.
> You will never be a survivalist with that lsort of mindset.
>
> Just a victim.
There is a cost to everything. For example to storing 300 gallons of
diesel fuel on my property.
i
Ignoramus2298
><ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2009-11-30, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> Sounds like the device is over sized. Sound like a person
>>> with an oversized generator could share some power with
>>> neighbors, in exchange for them providing fuel and some
>>> cash.
>>>
>>
>>This is my hope. I do not particularly want to make money from
>>neighbors, but if I can get them to share the cost of fuel, it would
>>be great, especially if travel is involved to get fuel.
>>
>>i
>
> One assumes you dont have a refinery in the back yard?
Not even a crematory
i
ATP*
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:6d29h5l42krv4oau3...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:01:47 -0600, Ignoramus2298
> <ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2009-11-30, Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 08:08:40 -0600, Ignoramus2298
>>><ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On 2009-11-30, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com>
>>>>wrote:
>>>>> During a blackout, you're supposed to scale way back on the
>>>>> electric usage. If you try to run your toaster oven, hair
>>>>> dryer, and filament space heaters, you go through fuel at a
>>>>> rapid rate.
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>You can buy fuel at gas stations. So far, all blackouts in our area,
>>>>left fuel supply mostly undisturbed. (except for a few local gas
>>>>stations).
>>>>
>>>>i
>>> "so far": is not something to depend on, you think?
>>
>>Well, if I cannot buy fuel, I will try to run the generator only
>>intermittently. I do not see this as a big issue.
>>
>>i
>
> My...but thats helpful thinking and planning..no?
>
> You will never be a survivalist with that lsort of mindset.
>
> Just a victim.
>
> Bummer
>
> Gunner
>
life so far, and is surviving pretty well.
Steve B
"Ignoramus2298" <ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote in message
My sis lives in SC, and she has sent me some pictures of ice storms. I'd
rather go through a hurricane, and I've been through a few. Any sort of
home storage, planning, or preparation can come in very handy.
Steve
Michael A. Terrell
During a storm like that, it might as well be 1000 miles away. trees
down, power lines across the road, and the high chance of dying just on
the off chance that 1000 people aren't ahead of you in line. That is a
fool's mission.
Michael A. Terrell
Steve B wrote:
>
> My sis lives in SC, and she has sent me some pictures of ice storms. I'd
> rather go through a hurricane, and I've been through a few. Any sort of
> home storage, planning, or preparation can come in very handy.
I took a survival driving course in Alaska in the '70s. Only a fool
would risk being out any longer than absolutely necessary. Part of the
driving test was on four inches of slick ice, covered with water.
Michael A. Terrell
Stormin Mormon wrote:
>
> Glad they had the manners to replace the fuel. Still, it's
> spooky to have the government moving in on private business
> like that. Hope they at least got permission.
Of course they did. It had to be pumped out of the locked filling
ports. They had paperwork for the owner to sign, and they witnessed the
meter to see exactly how much was removed. It wasn't doing the station
any good, and it might be a member of their family who needed an
ambulance, fire truck or the rescue squad to save their lives. If the
tanks were empty, they didn't have to worry about thieves cutting the
locks and stealing a couple thousand gallons.
Gunner Asch
How far are you from the New Madrid Fault?
Hummmm?
Gunner Asch
I know Bruce....I grew up in Northern Michigan..trust me...notice the
quotation marks around "fuel oil"?
<G>
Gunner Asch
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
Smart man! I wish more of these folks had that much of a grip.
Gunner
>-
>pyotr filipivich
>We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
>It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Or do what intelligent survivalists do..carry a small
flashlight..usually an LED type.
Gunner
pyotr filipivich
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> on or about Mon, 30 Nov 2009
20:51:23 -0500 did write/type or cause to appear in
rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>
>> But finding my way home the first night, in a hall where
>> the
>>emergency lights had given up hours before - was "fun".
>>
>>pyotr
>
>How did you find your way out? We can learn from your
>technique.
Work had lights, that time. Jim had told me that there had been
times when the power had gone out at work, and at night, a factory
turns dark real fast.
So the answer is a mini-mag - or other small light - on the belt.
Mini-mags with the :LED replacement - because there is nothing like
reaching for a flashlight and discovering that the old definition
applies "An aluminum tube for the storing of dead batteries" - at
least with an LED - you can get some light from near dead batteries.
And that is the Word to the Wise. LED flashlights come small enough
to put on your key chain, or otherwise "on you" (Or where you can find
it by feel). I'm not as bad as my buddy, who has five pounds of stuff
on his belt as 'routine.'
Finding my apartment was a matter of using the little light left
in the flashlight to find the door at the far end of the hall, and
backing up two doors. Enough light in the apt to find the candles.
And then find the fresher batteries.
One effect of becoming more religious - lots of candles, lots of
matches.
tschus
pyotr
pyotr filipivich
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>wrote:
>
>>On Nov 30, 8:51�pm, "Stormin Mormon"
>><cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>> How did you find your way out? We can learn from your
>>> technique.
>>> Christopher A. Young
>>
>>> > But finding my way home the first night, in a hall where
>>> > the
>>> >emergency lights had given up hours before - was "fun".
>>>
>>> >pyotr-
>>
>>If you think the situation is likely, count the number of steps on
>>stairs and short, deliberate paces down a hall.
>
>
>Or do what intelligent survivalists do..carry a small
>flashlight..usually an LED type.
Beats a zippo.
tschus
pyotr
Wes
> Beats a zippo.
>
Lots of light comes out of those cell phone screens.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Gunner Asch
Indeed. Got 300 gallons in 9 gas cans?
Interesting
Gunner Asch
wrote:
Ayup. He has a genset he can only run for 36 hours before its dry...and
"so far" he is doing pretty good.
So far.
Gunner Asch
<ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote:
>On 2009-12-01, Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>> On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 11:02:34 -0600, Ignoramus2298
>><ignora...@NOSPAM.2298.invalid> wrote:
>>
>>>On 2009-11-30, Stormin Mormon <cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Sounds like the device is over sized. Sound like a person
>>>> with an oversized generator could share some power with
>>>> neighbors, in exchange for them providing fuel and some
>>>> cash.
>>>>
>>>
>>>This is my hope. I do not particularly want to make money from
>>>neighbors, but if I can get them to share the cost of fuel, it would
>>>be great, especially if travel is involved to get fuel.
>>>
>>>i
>>
>> One assumes you dont have a refinery in the back yard?
>
>Not even a crematory
>
>i
What would you need a crematory for? You dont own a shovel?
Gunner Asch
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> on or
>about Mon, 30 Nov 2009 23:08:09 -0800 did write/type or cause to
>appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>On Mon, 30 Nov 2009 18:13:16 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins <kb1...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Nov 30, 8:51�pm, "Stormin Mormon"
>>><cayoung61**spambloc...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>> How did you find your way out? We can learn from your
>>>> technique.
>>>> Christopher A. Young
>>>
>>>> > But finding my way home the first night, in a hall where
>>>> > the
>>>> >emergency lights had given up hours before - was "fun".
>>>>
>>>> >pyotr-
>>>
>>>If you think the situation is likely, count the number of steps on
>>>stairs and short, deliberate paces down a hall.
>>
>>
>>Or do what intelligent survivalists do..carry a small
>>flashlight..usually an LED type.
>
> Beats a zippo.
And you can even check the gas tank
>
>
>tschus
>pyotr
>-
>pyotr filipivich
>We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
>It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
"Aren't cats Libertarian? They just want to be left alone.
Stormin Mormon
generator. I think the answer is that price gouging laws
prevent them from making enough money to recover the cost of
the generator.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in
message
news:-8KdnVQQ4MjvO4nW...@earthlink.com...
Stormin Mormon
desk. Of course, you get to bump into other workers who are
trying to get out. And, the type writer and filing cabinet
someone left there.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:cb6b96b0-0de6-4c7e...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
Stormin Mormon
work. I really like the squeeze LED lights that fit on a key
ring. After a couple moments, my eyes adjust to the dark,
and they are totally useful. I like your "aluminum tube"
description. The Red Cross lady who spoke at the emergency
prep seminar recently, she advises against candles. Too much
risk of fire. That's why I like the ones in glass jars. Much
safer, I think.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:kfk9h5l8e8qflkq4f...@4ax.com...
Stormin Mormon
equipment is often dark where you need to work.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"pyotr filipivich" <ph...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:jsk9h59n8f070behq...@4ax.com...
Stormin Mormon
"clear" button, a LED light on the top lit up. Plenty of
light to get out of a dark building. Said she had to be
careful, sometimes she'd be with other people, and have to
clear a misdialed number, would blind the person next to
her. She said it was great for power cuts when she went to
go check on the girls, see if they were OK.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Wes" <clu...@lycos.com> wrote in message
news:N66Rm.37856$Td3...@en-nntp-01.dc1.easynews.com...