Hit-and mis petrol (gas) engine plans
James Kirkpatrick
In article <d.diamond.1...@trl.oz.au>, d.di...@trl.oz.au (Drew Diamond) writes:
|>Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm looking for plans for a
|>reletively simple, small hit-and-mis (or maybe two-stroke) engine. Prefer
|>fabrication rather than castings. My club has back-issues of Modeltec and
|>Model Engineer (although the latter has had nothing quite to my needs lately).
|>Have access to the usual workshop tools.
I don't remember the exact date, but I believe Home Shop Machinist had
such an engine in the last year or so. You might also try Strictly IC
magazine.
- Strictly IC
(IC stands for Internal Combustion)
Published 6 times per year
$24.25 (+$2.00 US foreign, WA residents add $2.00 sales tax)
Robert A. Washburn, editor
24920 43rd Avenue S.
Kent, WA 98032
Concentrates on construction of miniature internal combustion engines,
and has a few classified ads, usually for engine castings.
- Village Press
P.O. Box 1810
2779 Aero Park Drive
Traverse City, MI 49685
(800) 447-7367, (616) 946-3712
Publishers of Home Shop Machinist, Projects in Metal, and
Live Steam. Some back issues available; older ones are
available as parts of several book series. See the individual
entries in the "magazines" question. They also publish other
books such as "So You Want to Build a Live Steam Locomotive."
I'd suggest calling Village Press, if you can (I see you're "down under")
and asking. They don't have any of the early issues in stock, but should
have most of the recent ones. Much of the earlier issues have been
reprinted in book form (not the entire magazines, just most articles).
Jim
James Kirkpatrick
Did some more checking, and HSM ran a series on a gearless hit-and-miss
over four issues in 1993: May/June, through Nov/Dec. The author was
the late Phil Duclos.
Jim
Mike Rehmus
Kirkpatrick) writes:
The engine in question is definitely not for beginners. My neighbor
built one and it runs well but needed some adjustments in the springs,
etc., before it would run well.
There is a book out, published by Village Press (HSM) called <
"The Shop Wisdom of Philip Duclos." In it is several hit and miss
engine plans and construction instructions. They cost $25 from Enco
here in the States.
Mike
Drew Diamond
reletively simple, small hit-and-mis (or maybe two-stroke) engine. Prefer
fabrication rather than castings. My club has back-issues of Modeltec and
Model Engineer (although the latter has had nothing quite to my needs lately).
Have access to the usual workshop tools.
Kind regards,
Drew Diamond.
Telecom Australia Research Laboratories
Peter Wiley - Poultry
you can't find them, I have all the relevant issues.
Peter Wiley
Mark McDade (303) 673-6841
: Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm looking for plans for a
Try the Village Press (Live Steam/Home Shop Machinist magazine publisher)
books. "Steam and Stirling - Books 1 and 2" and the "Shop Wisdom of
Philip Duclos" are possibilities (the latter specifically has hit-and-miss
designs).
Mark McDade
Alan Frisbie
> Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm looking for plans for a
> reletively simple, small hit-and-mis (or maybe two-stroke) engine. Prefer
> fabrication rather than castings.
Lindsay Publications has just what you are looking for:
"Hit & Miss Engine Plans", by Harold Depenbusch.
It describes a 1.125" bore x 1.5" stroke engine that can
be built entirely without castings. There are about twelve
pages of text and 29 pages of drawings. Order #1252, $15.95
Lindsay Publications, Inc.
P.O. Box 538
Bradley, IL 60915
815-935-5353 (voice)
815-935-5477 (FAX)
As you are in Australia, you may want to check with Plough Book Sales.
They carry other Lindsay books and might have this one also.
-- Alan E. Frisbie Fri...@Flying-Disk.Com
-- Flying Disk Systems, Inc.
-- 4759 Round Top Drive (213) 256-2575 (voice)
-- Los Angeles, CA 90065 (213) 258-3585 (FAX)
Carl C. Carlsen
was about 1986 called the Odds N Ends, then a year or so ago came
the gearless odd ball engine.
Another set of plans for a "scrap material" engine can be
purchased from: J & E Palmer Enjines
1019 Audrey Avenue
Campbell, CA 95008
$25.00 us funds. 10 sheets 17" x 22" Twelve inch flywheels, but
smaller will work if you are limited on lathe swing. He says all
operations have been done on a lathe and drill press, although a
mill will speed up the process.
--
Carl C. Carlsen
Carl C. Carlsen
Machinist back copies. If you want to send me your mailing
address, I'll send you a couple of pages on each of the engines
and you can decide if you want all the articles on either or both
and I'll send them to you. I have a casting kit for a
Fuller-Johnson hit-n-miss, I have an Ottawa regular size with
buzz saw and drag saw and a McCormick-Deering regular size 1 1/2
hp. Just bought castings for Rider-Ericsson hot air engine which
I'm going to build first. Let me know via E-mail and I'll send
some stuff off to you. Carl Carlsen
--
Carl C. Carlsen
Mike Rehmus
<74732...@CompuServe.COM> writes:
You ought to see what John cooks up from scrap steel. He has built a
1/4 scale Rumley Oil Pull tractor that holds just him. John is now
building a 1/2 scale Rumley and brings the pieces to our club meetings.
The cylinder head looks like a casting but is made up of a piece of a
fire extinguisher and other bits of iron. His stuff always looks great
and runs great when he gets done.
He showed us the crankcase of the 1/2 scale last month. He commented
that it took just a little heat and a 12 ton jack to roll the 5/8 steel
plate that makes up the case.
John is quite an inventor. He invented an entire set of machines to
make paper eating utensils . . . plates, cups, and bowls, about 20 years
ago. He's just finishing a total rebuild of the machines so its slowed
up his Rumley project just a "tad."
BTW, for all you engine nuts out there, our club secretary stopped in
the UK on a recent trip and brought back the guts of a couple of very
small magnetos. Just the coil, stator and rotor. The case, distributor
and breaker cam have to be designed and built by the user. Could
probably fit 4 of them in a kitchen match box.
Source:
Minimag Co
358 Birminham Road
Walsall
West Midlands
WS5 3NX
telephone (0922) 28553
They are somewhat expensive at 45 BPS each. A completed unit is 165 BPS
but I think they are made by a another company. We hope to see one
running a hit-n-miss by mid-year. I'll keep you posted if there is any
interest.
Best,
Mike
Barry L. Lankford
Diamond) writes:
|>Can anyone point me in the right direction? I'm looking for plans for a
|>reletively simple, small hit-and-mis (or maybe two-stroke) engine. Prefer
|>fabrication rather than castings. My club has back-issues of Modeltec and
|>Model Engineer (although the latter has had nothing quite to my needs
|>lately).
|>Have access to the usual workshop tools.
A four-part construction article was published in The Home Shop Machinist
called "Gearless Hit 'n' Miss Engine" by Philip Duclos in the following
issues:
Volume 12, No. 3 May/June 1993
Volume 12, No. 4 July/August 1993
Volume 12, No. 5 September/October 1993
Volume 12, No. 6 November/December 1993
The magazine is published by:
Village Press
P.O. Box 1810
Traverse City, MI 49685
(800) 447-7367 or (616) 946-3712
Village Press sells back issues, but I have no idea if the ones above are
available. Prices are US$5.50 plus shipping and handling for one copy or
US$5.00 plus shipping and handling per copy for two or more. The advert
does not say what shipping and handling would be to Australia.
Barry L. Lankford email: bar...@nuance.com Amateur Radio: N4MSJ
Madison, Alabama, USA ICBM: 34deg 41min 52.2sec N, 86deg 45min 34.2sec W
lohm...@ping.com
should take note. Home Shop Machinist has reported that the spark
plug used (1/4-32thread) is no longer available from the listed source.
HSM also suggests that a glow plug might work? Any thoughts on this
out there.
Keith
WODTLI
I purchased for it is failing due to oil fouling and a off center
electrode. My current project is to build a spark plug from scratch using
plans from an article in Strictly IC magazine. The plug body is done
except for threading which won't happen until the 1/4-32 die shows up in
the mail.
PS: I will be leaving AOL shortly but will be on Prodigy where I will
continue to read this newsgroup.
Dennis Wodtli Portland, Oregon
Mike Rehmus
I'm chasing down a source of $6 (so I'm told) miniature sparkplugs.
I'll keep you posted.
By the way, Coleman stove gas seems to work better than pump gas. Less
fouling, etc.
My friend, who has one that really works well and starts easily, used a
spark plug he purchased a while ago from Coles'
Mike
J. Kimberlin
I should think Coles' would have them, but also there must be suppliers
in England. 1/4"-32 is a common size as I remember adverts. You could
try Woking Precision Models, 10 New Street, Oundle, Peterborough PE8 4EA
England, or call them at 01832-272868. Their complete cat is 2 pounds -
about US$3.25 right now.
JerryK
Allen Majorovic
: Anyone interested in building the Philip Duclos gearless hit'n miss
: Keith
I've been following this thread for a while and I would like to ask what
the difference is between a make-and-break engine and hit-and-miss engine.
Unhh.
What's the difference is between a make-and-break engine and hit-and-miss
engine.
Thank you
Allen
Ron Thompson
>Ron is on target, but just a couple of more words. The terms I
>believe WERE interchangeable, but the Hit n Miss has been
>"popularized" to include ALL the little one lunger engines. To
>be more specific, the make and break term I believe refers to the
>engines whose speed is governed by a rod which holds the exhaust
>valve open until the speed slows to the point that the rod now
>"breaks" and allows the exhaust valve to close and fire on that
>stroke. These engines may rotate several strokes before the
>exhaust valve closes and the engine fires. This contrasts to the
>other type of "hit n miss" which is throttle governed and fires
>on every stroke, which tends to cut down on the "jumping"
>tendancy of the make & break when it does decide to fire. The
>Breisch/Peters or whatever the current name is, offer a couple of
>casting kits as either throttle governed or make n break. Carl
The Ron's stick together on this one. I have always read and heard that
make and break was the ignition system. It was in direct competition with
high tension ignition for a while. One of the salesmans demos was to
throw a pail of water over a running make and break without shorting the
ignition. For small 2 cycle boat engines this was a plus. Some companies sold
both ignition systems on their engines.
I see a lot of make and break at antique engine shows. Like the 5-day show
in Zolfo Springs, FL March 1-5 this year. One day will not give you enough
time to to see it all. Lots of tractors, steam, hot air, gas and oil engines.
Last year there was a hot tube ignition Fairbanks Morse one cylender with
flywheels about 6' in diameter, a 28 cylender R4360 aircraft engine, one
small jet engine from a ground power unit and an experimental wabble plate
engine built as a prototype that never went into production. Not as much steam
stuff as I would like to have seen. A fair collection of hot air engines
including one from the late 1800's and one of the James Senft modern jobs that
will run for an hour by setting a cold Coke on the cold side.
If anyone needs more info I can post what I have.
Ron
Ron Thompson | Voice (904) 644-5563
Psychology Dept | Fax (904) 644-7739
Florida State Univ | Amateur Radio N4FHO
Tallahassee, FL 33206-1051 | Member Florida Flywheelers
Carl C. Carlsen
believe WERE interchangeable, but the Hit n Miss has been
"popularized" to include ALL the little one lunger engines. To
be more specific, the make and break term I believe refers to the
engines whose speed is governed by a rod which holds the exhaust
valve open until the speed slows to the point that the rod now
"breaks" and allows the exhaust valve to close and fire on that
stroke. These engines may rotate several strokes before the
exhaust valve closes and the engine fires. This contrasts to the
other type of "hit n miss" which is throttle governed and fires
on every stroke, which tends to cut down on the "jumping"
tendancy of the make & break when it does decide to fire. The
Breisch/Peters or whatever the current name is, offer a couple of
casting kits as either throttle governed or make n break. Carl
--
Carl C. Carlsen
Ron Ginger
>From: amaj...@zeus.id.net (Allen Majorovic)
>Subject: Re: Hit-and mis petrol (gas) engine plans
>Date: 15 Feb 1995 22:56:26 GMT
>
>I've been following this thread for a while and I would like to ask what
>the difference is between a make-and-break engine and hit-and-miss engine.
Make and Break refers to a low tension form of ignition. The points are inside
the cylinder, in the combustion space. This requires a rotating seal, and
limited the engines to rather low speeds. The points also required the
combustion space to be rather large, so compression ratio was low, or
cylinders very big. Spark occus across the point because of a big inductor in
series. No spark coil or transformer action is used. Make and break is the
electrical action of making and breaking a circuit.
Hit and Miss refers to a governor mechanism. When the engine exceeded the
governor set speed, it 'missed' a few strokes to slow it down. Some governors
simply stopped the spark, some held the exhaust valve open. Almost all
stationary engines were governed this way. When operating the hit and miss is
a very obvious sound. As the load increasses the hits become more frequent.
It would be possible to build a make and break hit and miss engine, but by the
time they got around to building make and break, spark ignition had pretty
well taken over, so most hit and miss are spark.
Ron Ginger
my signature is http://www.ultranet.com/~ginger
Per T Jenssen
"Scale Models". There usually is at least a couple of companies,
delivering spark-systems for model engines. I seems to remember that
the threads in glow engines is 1/4-32 ???.
Regards,
PerJ (From Norway)
Mike Rehmus
pilot had was the switch that grounded the magneto. On and they
had full throttle, Off and they had no power.
Oh, and what about the castor oil? It was so powerful a
de-constipator that the pilots could only endure about 1 hour of
flight max before they had to head for the trenches! One of the
reasons they drank before their flights, I'm told.
Mike
Rick Cook
>de-constipator that the pilots could only endure about 1 hour of
>flight max before they had to head for the trenches! One of the
>reasons they drank before their flights, I'm told.
>
>Mike
I have it on competent medical authority (my doctor was an old airplane
buff) that one cure for the effects of castor oil fumes is blackberry
brandy. Which is what the pilots drank.
Come to think of it, the effects of castor oil and blackberry brandy
explain a LOT about the nature of air war during WWI.
--Rick Cook
Ron Ginger
>Subject: Re: Hit-and mis petrol (gas) engine plans
>--
>Carl C. Carlsen
I dont think 'hit-and-miss' were ever throttle governed. The whole point of
'miss' is to cause a complete mis-fire, and throttle governors would not do
that. All the HIM Ive seen some how completely prevented firing- most commonly
by holding open the exhaust valve, sometimes by holding off the ignition,
either blocking the points or stopping the magneto. On many the same rod that
holds open the exhaust valve also stops operation of the ignition.
Make and break is definately an electrical term, not the 'break'of the exhaust
valve, but the make and break of an electrical circuit tocause the spark.
I agree that many people call any one cylinder engine a make and break or a
hit and miss, but they are not interchangeable terms and many one-lungers were
neither- my boat has a one lung 1908 Grey motor that is neither- it has jump
spark ignition, high voltage spark plug, and it does not have any form of
governor- few gasoline marine engines did.
So, Make and break is a form of ignition.
Hit and miss is a form of governor that cause total mis fire, not just reduced
throttle.
Love to get into these nits !!