Cincinnati No. 3 milling machine for general shop use?

[Ignoramus10589]

Someone near me is selling a Cincinnati No. 3 vertical milling
machine.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Cincinnati-No-3-Milling-Machine.jpg

I am sort of famiiar with the look, as I saw similar milling machines
(probably Russian knockoffs) in Russia when I had my lathe operator
practice in high school. But that was a long time ago.

This is a large machine, say, 14,000 lbs or so. The motor is 20 HP or more.

My question is, is it totally insane to just keep it for general shop
use? I have ability to hook it up and use it.

i

[dca...@krl.org]

On Dec 8, 1:58 pm, Ignoramus10589 <ignoramus10...@NOSPAM.

10589.invalid> wrote:

> This is a large machine, say, 14,000 lbs or so. The motor is 20 HP or more.
>
> My question is, is it totally insane to just keep it for general shop
> use? I have ability to hook it up and use it.
>
> i

Near here is a machine shop with somewbat larger tools. The owner/
operator says he likes to do jobs that no one else can do. That size
machine could handle Tom Gardner's ratchet wheel. I would hook it up
and keep it as long as you have room. You can always sell it later
if you run out of room.


Dan

[Pete C.]

It looks like an awesome machine, but I can't possibly think of what
you'd need a machine that big for that your other series 2 Bridgeport
couldn't do just fine.

[Ignoramus10589]

I have a person who is our CDL Class A driver, weldor, repairman, etc
and he needs a manual milling machine, hence the question.

i

[Pete C.]

Well, it would keep your building from floating away... Probably use $5
in electricity every time you start the spindle... Snap 1" end mills
like toothpicks... I bet you could experiment with stir welding aluminum
with it...

[Ignoramus10589]

Yes... I will let everybody know... I will try to buy it for less than
scrap value.

i

[Jon Elson]

It is a BEAST! If you have need for a larger mill, then it may be
quite useful. Do you have tooling for the spindle taper?
It doesn't make sense to keep if you don't have use for a machine
larger than your Series II Bridgeport (although it likely is more
rigid than the Bridgeport, just judging by the weight.) It has
no CNC, no readouts, and unless it has power feed on the knee,
**I** sure wouldn't want to crank that knee up!

Jon

[Jon Elson]

Ignoramus10589 wrote:


> I have a person who is our CDL Class A driver, weldor, repairman, etc
> and he needs a manual milling machine, hence the question.
>

Is he an expert machinist? Is he a very cautious guy with
new (to him) tools? If not, this thing could kill him!
One should not be learning the art of machining on a 20 Hp
machine. (Just my humble opinion.)

Jon

[Gunner]

Ive run them. They are a hell of a machine if you are doing a
lot...lot of metal removal from Large castings, forgings and similar
work.

Do you need a BIG mill?

Or will a Bridgeport/Gorton/Lagun do your jobs?

Its gonna cost a little money to move it, set it, wire it up and then
its gonna cost to simply turn it on.

Gunner

The methodology of the left has always been:

1. Lie
2. Repeat the lie as many times as possible
3. Have as many people repeat the lie as often as possible
4. Eventually, the uninformed believe the lie
5. The lie will then be made into some form oflaw
6. Then everyone must conform to the lie

[Ignoramus2537]

I will take a look at it, it would be mostly for my other guy who
makes a lot of stuff, but needs a manual machine.

i

[Ignoramus2537]

On 2012-12-09, Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com> wrote:

He may not be an expert machinist, but he is experienced.

i

[Ignoramus2537]

On 2012-12-09, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 08 Dec 2012 12:58:00 -0600, Ignoramus10589
><ignoram...@NOSPAM.10589.invalid> wrote:
>
>>Someone near me is selling a Cincinnati No. 3 vertical milling
>>machine.
>>
>>http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Cincinnati-No-3-Milling-Machine.jpg
>>
>>I am sort of famiiar with the look, as I saw similar milling machines
>>(probably Russian knockoffs) in Russia when I had my lathe operator
>>practice in high school. But that was a long time ago.
>>
>>This is a large machine, say, 14,000 lbs or so. The motor is 20 HP or more.
>>
>>My question is, is it totally insane to just keep it for general shop
>>use? I have ability to hook it up and use it.
>>
>>i
>
> Ive run them. They are a hell of a machine if you are doing a
> lot...lot of metal removal from Large castings, forgings and similar
> work.
>
> Do you need a BIG mill?
>
> Or will a Bridgeport/Gorton/Lagun do your jobs?
>
> Its gonna cost a little money to move it, set it, wire it up and then
> its gonna cost to simply turn it on.

I have all equipment needed to move stuff like that by myself. A semi
truck, two semi trailers (flatbed and lowboy), and a 15k forklift.

i

[azotic]

"Ignoramus2537" <ignora...@NOSPAM.2537.invalid> wrote in message
news:TO2dnX61YKjmGlnN...@giganews.com...

>
> He may not be an expert machinist, but he is experienced.
>
> i

Can he dodge incadescent projectiles ?

A shop owner once told me if the chips are not
glowing red he is losing money. Circa 1960.

Best Regards
Tom.
--
http://fija.org/

[Gunner]

On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 00:04:46 -0600, Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com>
wrote:

Its more than likely 50 Taper, which can be very very cheaply had. And
yeah..its power on all axis.

[Gunner]

Cool. And you have the power to run it? Its gonna be about 65amps at
460, or 130 at 230

Not something you are going to hook up with 10ga wire...

[Ignoramus2537]

On 2012-12-09, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 00:04:46 -0600, Jon Elson <el...@pico-systems.com>
> wrote:
>
>>Ignoramus10589 wrote:
>>
>>> Someone near me is selling a Cincinnati No. 3 vertical milling
>>> machine.
>>>
>>> http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/Cincinnati-No-3-Milling-Machine.jpg
>>>
>>> I am sort of famiiar with the look, as I saw similar milling machines
>>> (probably Russian knockoffs) in Russia when I had my lathe operator
>>> practice in high school. But that was a long time ago.
>>>
>>> This is a large machine, say, 14,000 lbs or so. The motor is 20 HP or
>>> more.
>>>
>>> My question is, is it totally insane to just keep it for general shop
>>> use? I have ability to hook it up and use it.
>>>
>>It is a BEAST! If you have need for a larger mill, then it may be
>>quite useful. Do you have tooling for the spindle taper?
>>It doesn't make sense to keep if you don't have use for a machine
>>larger than your Series II Bridgeport (although it likely is more
>>rigid than the Bridgeport, just judging by the weight.) It has
>>no CNC, no readouts, and unless it has power feed on the knee,
>>**I** sure wouldn't want to crank that knee up!
>>
>>Jon
>
> Its more than likely 50 Taper, which can be very very cheaply had. And
> yeah..its power on all axis.

Yes, I can find that 50 taper tooling for next to nothing at auctions.

i

[Ignoramus2537]

If it is 20 HP, it should be about 60 amps 230, not a big deal for
me. A little extra wiring, we can do that. My building has 800 amps
feed.

i

[Gunner]

On Sun, 09 Dec 2012 09:01:18 -0600, Ignoramus2537

You arent counting the power feed motors and the coolant pump(s) and
the hydraulic pump motors in the calcs.

But it is most certainly a very nice mill!

[Jon Elson]

I just wanted to point out that if he is learning machining, such
a powerful machine might not be the place to start. I've had a
few accidents and oopses over the years, and because I have a
fairly modest, low-powered machine, none of them were too
serious. I've had workpieces pulled out of the vise on a
number of occasions and had to dodge the flying parts. Once
it swiveled the head of my series-I Bridgeport about 45 degrees
before the motor stalled. With 20 X the HP, these could have
been bloody accidents instead of just minor repairs.

Jon

[pyotr filipivich]

I saw the subject line and I thought "Why not?"

Reminds me of a time, when a group of us were considering going in
on a PDP-8 computer - surplus from the University. Stick it in
Threadgill's basement, and we could have our own dial up computer.
Wicked cool! The caper was that at the time, home computers were not
all that prevalent, and at the start of classes, there would be the
usual question of "Can I use my computer at home, instead of the
University's?" "What do you have?" And then the look on faces when
you say "A PDP-8. It's the one all my friends have."

Unfortunately, it didn't work out at all.


tschus
pyotr
--
pyotr
Go not to the Net for answers, for it will tell you Yes and no. And
you are a bloody fool, only an ignorant cretin would even ask the
question, forty two, 47, the second door, and how many blonde lawyers
does it take to change a lightbulb.

[Pete C.]

Never underestimate the power of a meager 1HP machine. Heck, I once had
the leadscrew on a wimpy 1/2HP lathe try to eat my sweatshirt.

[Ignoramus26907]

Dan, I won that machine, I will report my findings.

i

On 2012-12-08, dca...@krl.org <dca...@krl.org> wrote:
> On Dec 8, 1:58?pm, Ignoramus10589 <ignoramus10...@NOSPAM.

[Jon Elson]

Ignoramus26907 wrote:

> Dan, I won that machine, I will report my findings.

Well, if in good shape, it should be very nice. Of course, all
the usual things can be wrong, like worn ways, badly worn
leadscrews, etc. When I put a readout (not digital, but optical)
on my old Bridgeport, I was amazed at the differential wear on the
X leadscrew. I didn't think it was possible for it to be worn
so much in the center without the entire thread going away.
I had very close to .050" error in the middle, then it would start
to go down after passing the center. Well, that explained why
I couldn't make any larger things where the bolt holes lined up!

A DRO might be the easiest way to make accurate parts with it.

Jon

[Ignoramus26907]

I will see how it goes. I bought it for approximately scrap value, so
I am not risking much.

i

[ATP]

"Ignoramus26907" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.26907.invalid> wrote in message
news:f8adnfeERv64P1fN...@giganews.com...

If you decide it's not big enough I have a power supply for the controls to
a Cincinnati Milacron 50 series.

[Gunner]

On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:13:10 -0600, Jon Elson <jme...@wustl.edu>
wrote:

Indeed. And a couple times a year..move the damned vise from one end
to another and spots in between.

A LOT of mills were never run that way..and have horrendous wear in
one spot.

Same with most lathes. I dont care if its a 54" lathe..there is going
to be wear within 8" of the chuck/spindle nose.

Same with CNC machines of all sorts.

[Ignoramus12032]

On 2012-12-15, Gunner <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 13 Dec 2012 15:13:10 -0600, Jon Elson <jme...@wustl.edu>
> wrote:
>
>>Ignoramus26907 wrote:
>>
>>> Dan, I won that machine, I will report my findings.
>>Well, if in good shape, it should be very nice. Of course, all
>>the usual things can be wrong, like worn ways, badly worn
>>leadscrews, etc. When I put a readout (not digital, but optical)
>>on my old Bridgeport, I was amazed at the differential wear on the
>>X leadscrew. I didn't think it was possible for it to be worn
>>so much in the center without the entire thread going away.
>>I had very close to .050" error in the middle, then it would start
>>to go down after passing the center. Well, that explained why
>>I couldn't make any larger things where the bolt holes lined up!
>>
>>A DRO might be the easiest way to make accurate parts with it.
>>
>>Jon
>
> Indeed. And a couple times a year..move the damned vise from one end
> to another and spots in between.
>
> A LOT of mills were never run that way..and have horrendous wear in
> one spot.
>
> Same with most lathes. I dont care if its a 54" lathe..there is going
> to be wear within 8" of the chuck/spindle nose.
>
> Same with CNC machines of all sorts.
>

I thought that with proper lubricatio n, everything rides on a film of
oil?

[Gunner]

On Sat, 15 Dec 2012 17:20:56 -0600, Ignoramus12032

"proper lubrication"

If there was such a thing...machine repair guys would be out of
business.