Re: Ethanol gasoline symptoms

[Stormin Mormon]

Thanks to all who reccomended not using
ethanol gasoline in small engines. I'm drawing
a mental blank. Destroys gaskets, and rubber seals.

Whats the symptoms, how does one know
it's ethanol problems? Yeah, I know. DAGS.
Here is one such page:
http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25936782/#.URrbKfLxGPA

Look right to you? Rust and crud in the carb?
My snow blower, bought used a couple years
ago. I had to add a fuel filter, there was so much
black particles in the tank, the gas jet kept clogging.
Maybe ethanol problem?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

[Frank]

I don't know what did my snow thrower in but I believe the shop had a
kit to rebuild the seals. Reading fine print of snow thrower manual it
said not to use gas with ethanol.

That's the only crap that's available around here.

Ethanol would change the solubility characteristics of gasoline
effecting seals etc. It is hygroscopic and would attract moisture.
Generally you don't run these engines as often as a car and the crap
accumulates in the carburetor where it may be concentrated by
evaporation. Best to run dry at end of use season. Some small engines
like my Honda mower have a simple shut off valve to allow running dry
and leave gas in tank.

[Doug Miller]

"Stormin Mormon" <cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote in news:I0BSs.285606
$f14.2...@fed01.iad:

> Thanks to all who reccomended not using
> ethanol gasoline in small engines. I'm drawing
> a mental blank. Destroys gaskets, and rubber seals.
>
> Whats the symptoms, how does one know
> it's ethanol problems? Yeah, I know. DAGS.
> Here is one such page:
> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25936782/#.URrbKfLxGPA
>
> Look right to you? Rust and crud in the carb?
> My snow blower, bought used a couple years
> ago. I had to add a fuel filter, there was so much
> black particles in the tank, the gas jet kept clogging.
> Maybe ethanol problem?

Maybe. Rust and crud in the carb is actually a *water* problem. But ethanol in the gas will
absorb water from the atmosphere.
>

[Michael A. Terrell]

Frank wrote:
>
> I don't know what did my snow thrower in but I believe the shop had a
> kit to rebuild the seals. Reading fine print of snow thrower manual it
> said not to use gas with ethanol.
>
> That's the only crap that's available around here.

Is there a marina or small airport?

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 12, 7:20 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

All cars sold in Canada can tolerate 10% alcohol in the gasoline. You
should catch up with technology and embrace the change. It is good for
you.

[rbowman]

Stormin Mormon wrote:

> Thanks to all who reccomended not using
> ethanol gasoline in small engines. I'm drawing
> a mental blank. Destroys gaskets, and rubber seals.

I haven't had cause to try it but there was an article in Motocycle Consumer
News last month about reclaiming ethanol gas for dirt bikes. He added enough
water to induce separation and then decanted the gasoline off, leaving the
ethanol/water fraction.

[Steve W.]

Ethanol is a good solvent. As such any dirt, varnish or rust in the
lines comes free. That likes to plug filters.
Many fuel system parts on older small engines are NOT ethanol resistant
and they actually dissolve or break down and cause problems.
It also makes the engines run lean (unless you re-drill or replace the
jets) That causes them to run hotter which also creates more problems.
it also likes to absorb water which in turn causes more problems. And it
also likes to separate out while the fuel is in storage.

With 2 strokes the above are problems and add to that that many of the
oils used don't like ethanol.


--
Steve W.

[Frank]

Should be and I understand these gases are ethanol free.
I don't know where these places are but it would be at least a 50 mile
round trip to get a gallon of gas.

I remember a few years when the ethanol mandate came through, gas
stations were shutting down so the tanks could be cleaned as any crud in
them would be dissolved and contaminate the ethanol containing gas.

They can only ship this gas from the refineries in trucks and cannot use
pipelines for the same reason.

Studies have shown that the energy obtained from ethanol is probably
only slightly higher than the energy consumed to make it. Add all the
other negatives including the increased cost of food during a corn
shortage and you're looking at a negative return on your investment
which also means you have not done any thing to improve the environment.

[Ed Huntress]

Corn-derived ethanol is indeed a loser in economic terms. One hopes
for a breakthrough with cellulose-derived ethanol but we've been
waiting for a while.

Meantime, other projects are underway and one or more may pay off. Or
maybe not.

BTW, most of the problem with gas station fuel tanks is water in the
tanks. Ethanol will combine with the water; when the water content
reaches about 4% of the alcohol content, the alcohol begins to
separate from the gasoline. Bad news.

One irony of the situation is that alcohol with no gasoline in it can
absorb a lot more water without harming its properties as a fuel. You
only need the really pure stuff (over 98% alcohol) when you mix it
with gasoline.

--
Ed Huntress

[Stormin Mormon]

This web site http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY
shows the pure gas stations in NYS. Other states, also.
http://pure-gas.org/

Hope that's of some help for you.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Frank" <frankdo...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:kfeol4$7ul$1...@dont-email.me...

[Stormin Mormon]

Some folks on the left continue to be obsessed with the ethanol concept.
Facts be damned, full speed ahead on the ethanol project.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Frank" <frankdo...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:kfg494$obk$1...@dont-email.me...

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 13, 9:07 am, "Stormin Mormon"

<cayoung61***spambl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>
> Some folks on the left continue to be obsessed with the ethanol concept.
> Facts be damned, full speed ahead on the ethanol project.
>
> Christopher A. Young

Like dinosaurs, GOP fools have an innate resistance to change.

Take a look around you. You are the only ones in the world still using
Fahrenheit and Imperial measurements. Even the inventor of the
Imperial measurements, the Great Britain, has gone metric a long time
ago. You are the only fools left on this planet.

[Cydrome Leader]

Mighty Wannabe <mightw...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 9:07?am, "Stormin Mormon"

I didn't know the stone was a metric measure of weight.

[Spehro Pefhany]

They still use miles on UK road signs. Liters and miles.

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 13, 5:10 pm, Cydrome Leader <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

A stone is 14 lbs. Who says it is metric?

[Snag]

You did !
Quoting from your post above : "Even the inventor of the

Imperial measurements, the Great Britain, has gone metric a long time
ago."

What you really wannabe is intelligent enough to breath without being
reminded .
--
Snag
Welcome to my
bozo bin . <ploink>

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 13, 5:48 pm, Spehro Pefhany <speffS...@interlogDOTyou.knowwhat>
wrote:

> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:10:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader
>
>
>
>
>
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>

> <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

> >Mighty Wannabe <mightwann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >> On Feb 13, 9:07?am, "Stormin Mormon"
> >> <cayoung61***spambl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> Some folks on the left continue to be obsessed with the ethanol concept.
> >>> Facts be damned, full speed ahead on the ethanol project.
>
> >>> Christopher A. Young
>
> >> Like dinosaurs, GOP fools have an innate resistance to change.
>
> >> Take a look around you. You are the only ones in the world still using
> >> Fahrenheit and Imperial measurements. Even the inventor of the
> >> Imperial measurements, the Great Britain, has gone metric a long time
> >> ago. You are the only fools left on this planet.
>
> >I didn't know the stone was a metric measure of weight.
>
> They still use miles on UK road signs. Liters and miles.

It takes time for the UK to change completely but they are working on
it. The US will be the only one left in the world using completely
Imperial units.

[David J. Hughes]

The US uses the United States Customary Units system (not the Imperial
system, which is different), as well as the Metric system, as does
Mexico, and has since 1866. Use of the Metric system has greatly
increased since 1975

The Imperial system is still in use in the United Kingdom, Jamaica.
Liberia, Saint Lucia, and Burma (Myanmar), along with the Metric system.

MW, can you still order an honest pint in a Canadian pub?
IIRC, I could in the late 90's, when I spent a few weeks on a project in
Alberta.

[Ed Huntress]

Why would we change? Provide an answer, please, that accounts for the
fact that we are the nation with the world's largest economy, by a
factor of approximately two.

Include in your answer a response that indicates you really *know*
what we use in science, in manufacturing of internationally traded
products, and in medicine, where it makes a difference.

--
Ed Huntress

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 13, 6:10 pm, "David J. Hughes" <davidjhughes...@netzero.com>
wrote:

> On 2/13/2013 4:48 PM, Spehro Pefhany wrote:
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> > On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:10:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

> > <prese...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

>
> >> Mighty Wannabe <mightwann...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> On Feb 13, 9:07?am, "Stormin Mormon"
> >>> <cayoung61***spambl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>>> Some folks on the left continue to be obsessed with the ethanol concept.
> >>>> Facts be damned, full speed ahead on the ethanol project.
>
> >>>> Christopher A. Young
>
> >>> Like dinosaurs, GOP fools have an innate resistance to change.
>
> >>> Take a look around you. You are the only ones in the world still using
> >>> Fahrenheit and Imperial measurements. Even the inventor of the
> >>> Imperial measurements, the Great Britain, has gone metric a long time
> >>> ago. You are the only fools left on this planet.
>
> >> I didn't know the stone was a metric measure of weight.
>
> > They still use miles on UK road signs. Liters and miles.
>
> The US uses the United States Customary Units system (not the Imperial
> system, which is different), as well as the Metric system, as does
> Mexico, and has since 1866. Use of the Metric system has greatly
> increased since 1975
>
> The Imperial system is still in use in the United Kingdom, Jamaica.
> Liberia, Saint Lucia, and Burma (Myanmar), along with the Metric system.
>
> MW, can you still order an honest pint in a Canadian pub?
> IIRC, I could in the late 90's, when I spent a few weeks on a project in
> Alberta.

Rough conversion is 500 ml for a pint. Draught beer is still ordered
in pints (It is easier to say "pint", but not sure what they actually
give you). The only good thing about the old Imperial System units is
easier to say ounce, cup, pint, quart, gallon, instead of saying 30
ml, 250 ml, 500 ml, 1 litre, and 4 litres.

The Imperial Unit is shorter to say, but harder to convert up and
down. Metric is always multiples of 10. The whole world is gravitating
towards a simple and universal Metric Unit. The US will be the modern
dinosaur in another 30 years.

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 13, 6:20 pm, Ed Huntress <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 15:09:07 -0800 (PST), Mighty Wannabe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

You were supposed to change to metric the same time when Canada did
(it was supposed to be a coordinated change), but your domestic
opposition prevented your conversion and Canada was left to do it
alone. There were confusion and "growing pain" in the beginning but
the worst parts are behind us now.

Your measurement for volume is not the same as the British Imperial
Unit so that a US gallon was different from a Canadian gallon back in
those days. It was just confusing.

I have gotten so used the temperature reported in Celsius, I cannot
relate when I see temperature reported in Fahrenheit (as in the US)
anymore.

Metric is good for you, but you Americans are just like spoiled kids
who would indulge in eating candy rather than listen to your parents
and eat healthy food.

[Ed Huntress]

They've been telling us that for more than 60 years. So far, we're
still getting along.

You apparently are laboring under some misconceptions about what we
actually use. Take a look at a CAD file used in US manufacturing.
Whether it's inch (customary units) or metric, it's decimal. In linear
measurement, that's all that matters. Nearly any job shop in the US
can freely work in either system. Anything electronic now, which is
most of our systems in manufacturing, convert from one to the other
with the push of a button.

Look at a medicine bottle. Metric. Automobile fasteners and other
dimensions: metric.

Regarding medicine (I was a medical editor), convert from units (0.01
ml) to ml and then to cc in your head, please, as an exercise. Here's
what you'll find: you won't trust your result, because you won't be
sure you got the decimal places right. You'll write it down and count
decimal places to be sure. Everyone does.

If a country is going to adopt a system, by all means, adopt metric.
In everything that matters, we did, 50 years ago.

--
Ed Huntress

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

And they screw even THAT up, with a 4/5th size gallon and quart
>
>
>

[David J. Hughes]

The US has never used the Imperial system. It uses United States
customary units, derived from the earlier English system, which is
distinct from the Imperial system which was codified in 1824 (don't they
teach this in Canadian history classes?).

The US adopted the Metric system in 1866 (would have done it earlier,
but the ship carrying the reference meter rod, liter block and kilogram
block from France sank), defined all US measurements in terms of metric
units in 1893, and made it the preferred system (well, actually, the
International Standards of Units, which while functionally the same as
the Metric system is defined in different terms) in 1975.

Personally, I still use cups, teaspoons and tablespoons when cooking at
home, unless the recipe is in SI units, but use almost nothing but SI
units at work (except for pressure, where pounds per square inch or bar
is generally used, rather than kilo pascals).

I understand that Canadian ovens still use Fahrenheit, Televisions and
Computer monitors still use diagonal inches, and both golf and Canadian
Rules Football still use yards.

Neither Canada nor the US has banned the use of anything but the SI system.

[Ed Huntress]

>opposition prevented your conversion...

That's right. We figured out that it would be a financial loss for no
net advantage. So for those companies for which it made a difference
(Caterpillar was one of the first, in the early '70s -- international
markets and international parts sourcing) they converted. And then
everyone found out that it hardly made any difference at all.

I was on the metric bandwagon until the mid-70s, when I finally
realized what most US manufacturers already knew. When it became
financially advantageous to do so, they converted. Science and
medicine had been metric for years, anyway. The rest have converted as
it made sense.

>.... and Canada was left to do it

>alone. There were confusion and "growing pain" in the beginning but
>the worst parts are behind us now.

Boo-hoo! <g>

It gives you another thing to complain about. Where would you be, if
you couldn't bitch about the US? You'd have to spend your winters
filing the edges off of your nickels, to make them round. d8-)

>
>Your measurement for volume is not the same as the British Imperial
>Unit so that a US gallon was different from a Canadian gallon back in
>those days. It was just confusing.

I'm sooooo sorry.

>
>I have gotten so used the temperature reported in Celsius, I cannot
>relate when I see temperature reported in Fahrenheit (as in the US)
>anymore.

Don't worry about it. We aren't letting you in here, anyway...

>
>Metric is good for you, but you Americans are just like spoiled kids
>who would indulge in eating candy rather than listen to your parents
>and eat healthy food.

It was a dollars-and-sense decision. We used some sense and held onto
the dollars.

--
Ed Huntress

[Frank]

Cellulose based prima facia does not seem like a bad idea but it takes
several times as much land to grow the equivalent amount of something
like switch grass. I don't think there is enough farm land in the whole
country if all we could use would be E85.

I'll also bet it would be cheaper to make ethanol from petroleum but the
environmentalists would go berserk over this.

[Frank]

You still weigh yourselves in stones.
Don't toss the first stone ;)

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mighty Wannabe" <mightw...@gmail.com> wrote

>The whole world is gravitating
>towards a simple and universal Metric Unit. The US will be the modern
>dinosaur in another 30 years.

When I studied physics and chemistry in college in the 60's both were
metric, the CGS and MKS varieties rather than SI. The oldest US
chemistry book I have, from the 1920's, is entirely metric.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mendenhall_Order

Pull your head out and try to comprehend the real world for a change.

[Frank]

You missed the technical part, Numby ;)

[Frank]

On 2/13/2013 9:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> This web site http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY
> shows the pure gas stations in NYS. Other states, also.
> http://pure-gas.org/
>
> Hope that's of some help for you.
>
> Christopher A. Young
> Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
> .
>

DE not listed. Closest station for me would be Lancaster, PA about 50
miles from here.

[Frank]

On 2/12/2013 9:11 PM, Mighty Wannabe wrote:
> On Feb 12, 7:20 pm, "Stormin Mormon"

> <cayoung61***spambl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>> Thanks to all who reccomended not using
>> ethanol gasoline in small engines. I'm drawing
>> a mental blank. Destroys gaskets, and rubber seals.
>>
>> Whats the symptoms, how does one know
>> it's ethanol problems? Yeah, I know. DAGS.
>> Here is one such page:
>> http://www.nbcnews.com/id/25936782/#.URrbKfLxGPA
>>
>> Look right to you? Rust and crud in the carb?
>> My snow blower, bought used a couple years
>> ago. I had to add a fuel filter, there was so much
>> black particles in the tank, the gas jet kept clogging.
>> Maybe ethanol problem?
>>
>> Christopher A. Young
>
>

> All cars sold in Canada can tolerate 10% alcohol in the gasoline. You
> should catch up with technology and embrace the change. It is good for
> you.
>
>
>
>
You keep missing the boat.
Discussion started on small engines.
Canada makes American cars, right?
Who ever heard of a Canadian brand car?

[David J. Hughes]

An Imperial pint is 568.26125 ml, so if they are only serving you 500,
you're being short changed more than 10%.

The Imperial (and US Customary) units uses simple factors of 2, 3, 4,
and 8 for most things, which made them easy to work with.
SI uses factors of 10, 100, 1000, etc, which is even easier, but is a
disaster in the making if you misplace a decimal point.

I grew up using all three, so it was never a problem for me.
Although the old 4 farthings to a penny, 12 pennies to a shilling, and
twenty shilling to a crown system always took me a moment to correctly
figure change.

[Ed Huntress]

FWIW, they don't use pure SI in medicine or in much of engineering,
anywhere. MKS is still intermixed with SI.

Who wants N-m for force, anyway? On a bad hair day, you might think
they're talking about a Joule. <g>

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:58:54 -0500, Frank

Ha! It could be.

As for the switchgrass, I'd be willing to donate my back yard to the
cause, if they'd mow it every week or two.

--
Ed Huntress

[Mighty Wannabe]

All cars sold in Canadian market have to conform to Canadian
standards, be it German, Japanese, or American cars.

Our speedometer and odometer are all calibrated in kilometres.

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 13, 7:10 pm, Frank <frankdotlogu...@comcast.net> wrote:

[F.K.]

And being based on 10 it is just soooo much easier to count on your
fingers (and toes for the really big numbers).

[dca...@krl.org]

On Feb 13, 6:09 pm, Mighty Wannabe <mightwann...@gmail.com> wrote:

> It takes time for the UK to change completely but they are working on
> it. The US will be the only one left in the world using completely
> Imperial units.

The U.S. does not use completely imperial units. The American cars
are metric, and pretty much everything electronic is metric. So the
two largest U.S. industries are metric. Ob I forget the soft drink
industry uses metric too.

So tell me about how the imperial units for electric power. The
metric unit is kilowatt hours.


Dan

[F.K.]

On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 22:10:00 +0000 (UTC), Cydrome Leader

<pres...@MUNGEpanix.com> wrote:

>Mighty Wannabe <mightw...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> On Feb 13, 9:07?am, "Stormin Mormon"

>> <cayoung61***spambl...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> Some folks on the left continue to be obsessed with the ethanol concept.
>>> Facts be damned, full speed ahead on the ethanol project.
>>>
>>> Christopher A. Young
>>
>>
>> Like dinosaurs, GOP fools have an innate resistance to change.
>>
>> Take a look around you. You are the only ones in the world still using
>> Fahrenheit and Imperial measurements. Even the inventor of the
>> Imperial measurements, the Great Britain, has gone metric a long time
>> ago. You are the only fools left on this planet.
>

>I didn't know the stone was a metric measure of weight.
>

It is not, but Numb-Nuts isn't quite as bright as he thinks he is.

[John B.]

And the advantage of using liters and kilometers?

--
Cheers,

John B.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Actually, there have been quite a few over the years. They have all
either gone away or been bought out by the american based
multi-nationals.

Brush, McLaughlin, Frontenac, (for a start)

[F.K.]

I agree! But confusing only to those who are too woebegone to
understand the system.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

And they all have day-lites, and the bumper requirements are higher
than US standards - for starters. There are vehicles that cannot be
imported from the USA, but no current models that cannot be exported
from Canada to the USA - with or without modifications.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 16:39:36 -0800 (PST), "dca...@krl.org"
<dca...@krl.org> wrote:

>On Feb 13, 6:09�pm, Mighty Wannabe <mightwann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It takes time for the UK to change completely but they are working on
>> it. The US will be the only one left in the world using completely
>> Imperial units.
>
>The U.S. does not use completely imperial units. The American cars
>are metric, and pretty much everything electronic is metric. So the
>two largest U.S. industries are metric. Ob I forget the soft drink
>industry uses metric too.

No they don't. They MEASURE and sell it in metric units - but they
are just metric equivalents of the old ounces. Who ever heard of a 237
ml can in a REAL metric country???? And because the soft drink
industry is US based, Canadian soft-drinks are also sold in
quasi-metric containers.

[et...@whidbey.com]

I don't like Newton-meters as a measurement. Not intuitive. Ounce
inches, pound feet, etc. make sense. So does gram centimeter. But I
don't know anyone who casually measures in units of Newtons. I use
grams and ounces for cooking. Liquid ounces and milliliters too. They
make sense.
Eric

[Jim Wilkins]

"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message
news:i2boh8po0aj77hji8...@4ax.com...

>
> FWIW, they don't use pure SI in medicine or in much of engineering,

> anywhere. MKS is still intermixed with SI....
> Ed Huntress

The SI purists can't suppress centimetres:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centimetre
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hydrogen_line

From Ukraine:
http://www.dl.begellhouse.com/journals/0632a9d54950b268,16b612202e51d9ff,379013c06f5f0b27.html

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

Sure a stone is metric, It's 6.35 Kg

[dca...@krl.org]

On Feb 13, 7:55 pm, cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

>
>  No they don't. They MEASURE and sell it in metric units - but they
> are just metric equivalents of the old ounces. Who ever heard of a 237
> ml can in a REAL metric country????  And because the soft drink
> industry is US based, Canadian soft-drinks are also sold in
> quasi-metric containers.
>

I was thinking of the 2 liiter bottles.

Dan

[Ed Huntress]

Yeah, when you use SI a lot you quickly run into its shortcomings. The
AMA requires it for publication, but they have some exceptions, and
doctors and hospitals don't conform in many cases. It makes editing a
bit tricky.

Units of force, torque, and some others are just hard to get used to.
The older CGS/MKS units are more sensible, if not as elegant.

Screw elegance. <g>

--
Ed Huntress

[Ed Huntress]

Yes, I think your reaction is the common one. I'm not a big fan of SI
units.

--
Ed Huntress

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 13, 7:43 pm, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 15:09:07 -0800 (PST), Mighty Wannabe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

Other than the real scientific benefit, it will be all too convenient
when everybody is using the same unit. Imagine how bad it is if every
single country in the world decides to invent and use its own units?

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 13, 7:43 pm, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 15:09:07 -0800 (PST), Mighty Wannabe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

[Stanley Schaefer]

On Feb 13, 6:26 am, Frank <frankdotlogu...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 2/12/2013 9:02 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>
>
>
> > Frank wrote:
>
> >> I don't know what did my snow thrower in but I believe the shop had a
> >> kit to rebuild the seals.  Reading fine print of snow thrower manual it
> >> said not to use gas with ethanol.
>
> >> That's the only crap that's available around here.
>
> >     Is there a marina or small airport?
>
> Should be and I understand these gases are ethanol free.
> I don't know where these places are but it would be at least a 50 mile
> round trip to get a gallon of gas.
>
> I remember a few years when the ethanol mandate came through, gas
> stations were shutting down so the tanks could be cleaned as any crud in
> them would be dissolved and contaminate the ethanol containing gas.
>
> They can only ship this gas from the refineries in trucks and cannot use
> pipelines for the same reason.
>
> Studies have shown that the energy obtained from ethanol is probably
> only slightly higher than the energy consumed to make it.  Add all the
> other negatives including the increased cost of food during a corn
> shortage and you're looking at a negative return on your investment
> which also means you have not done any thing to improve the environment.

They promote it in CO as a solution to smog, supposed to reduced
oxides of nitrogen, so the mix is the only gas available. Also, we're
subsidizing it to the tune of 50 cents per gallon, that 50 cents of
everybody's federal taxes, not state. The only winners here are corn
producers, distillers and oil distributors. Since it's replaced MTBE
which had worse properties, we're supposed to be happy. Lost a whole
set of fuel injectors and a fuel pump to MTBE when the seals on all
melted when that mix was first introduced. Haven't had that happen
with ethanol. The biggest smog reducer is modern closed-loop engine
management.

Stan

[Stormin Mormon]

Between ethanol gasoline, and the wrong size gallons, it's amazing we can
tie our shoes and get dressed in the morning.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:1q9oh89a7cbbj3j19...@4ax.com...

>It takes time for the UK to change completely but they are working on
>it. The US will be the only one left in the world using completely
>Imperial units.
>

And they screw even THAT up, with a 4/5th size gallon and quart

[Stormin Mormon]

You mean that Mighty Wobbly missed
the point, again?

I bought the ETQ generator in 2006. Today
I glanced through the manual, and it did not
mention ethanol gasoline, at any point in the
manual. I guess I'll use pure gas (if a bit more
expensive) as long as it's available.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Frank" <frankdo...@comcast.net>
wrote in message news:kfha02$d30$2...@dont-email.me...

[Stormin Mormon]

Might not be any pure gas stores in DE. Sorry about that.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Frank" <frankdo...@comcast.net>

wrote in message news:kfh9rt$d30$1...@dont-email.me...

> http://pure-gas.org/
>
DE not listed. Closest station for me would
be Lancaster, PA about 50 miles from here.

[Stormin Mormon]

What happens if you put a stone in a
two stroke engine?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:6gdoh8hfdjhgr4m9r...@4ax.com...

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 21:23:57 -0500, "Stormin Mormon"
<cayoung61***spam...@hotmail.com> wrote:

>Between ethanol gasoline, and the wrong size gallons, it's amazing we can
>tie our shoes and get dressed in the morning.
>
>Christopher A. Young
>Learn more about Jesus
> www.lds.org
>.

Well, some can anyways.

[DoN. Nichols]

On 2013-02-14, dca...@krl.org <dca...@krl.org> wrote:
> On Feb 13, 6:09�pm, Mighty Wannabe <mightwann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It takes time for the UK to change completely but they are working on
>> it. The US will be the only one left in the world using completely
>> Imperial units.

And the US gallon is not the same as the imperial gallon. IIRC,
1.25 US gallons in an Imperial gallon. (I used to have fun with that,
when I would pull my MGA into a gas station running on fumes, fill it
up, and comment "Intersting! How did you pump get 12 gallons into a 10
gallon tank?" (And I had the manual if they doubted the size of the
tank. :-)

> The U.S. does not use completely imperial units. The American cars
> are metric, and pretty much everything electronic is metric.

Except the spacing on the pins on DIP IC packages, which have
the pins spaced at 100 mils (0.100" -- I think that the electronics
industry is one of the few to call a thousandths of an inch a "mil".)
And the original package had the rows 300 mils apart.

And while screw terminal electrolytic capacitors are specified
in the catalogs in mm, they are odd values which convert to reasonable
fractional inch values. :-)

> So the
> two largest U.S. industries are metric. Ob I forget the soft drink
> industry uses metric too.
>
> So tell me about how the imperial units for electric power. The
> metric unit is kilowatt hours.

:-)

Hobby machinists (such as are found here) are more likely to
work in Imperial measurements, simply because the good old machine tools
have dials calibrated in 0.001" units. Get to a CNC machine, and it is
simply a flip of a switch to change from metric to Imperial or vice
versa. :-)

I tend to like digital micrometers and calipers, because they
switch between systems at the press of a button -- converting the
current reading at the same time. :-)

Enjoy,
DoN.

--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---

[Michael A. Terrell]

"John B." wrote:
>
> And the advantage of using liters and kilometers?

It is easier on small minds.

[Michael A. Terrell]

Frank wrote:
>
> On 2/13/2013 9:02 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
> > This web site http://pure-gas.org/index.jsp?stateprov=NY
> > shows the pure gas stations in NYS. Other states, also.
> > http://pure-gas.org/
> >
> > Hope that's of some help for you.

> >
> > Christopher A. Young
> > Learn more about Jesus
> > www.lds.org
> > .
> >

> DE not listed. Closest station for me would be Lancaster, PA about 50
> miles from here.

that website is pure bullshit. By law, all gas staions are allowed to
sell in florida has to have ethanol, except fuel for boats & planes. In
spite of this, they list 362 Pure Gas Stations in Florida.

[Michael A. Terrell]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:
>
> Actually, there have been quite a few over the years. They have all
> either gone away or been bought out by the american based
> multi-nationals.
>
> Brush, McLaughlin, Frontenac, (for a start)

All their engines were rated in Moosepower. ;-)

[John B.]

.... That is called rationalization, isn't it :-?
--
Cheers,

John B.

[John B.]

Interestingly I presently reside in Thailand where they use metric and
imperial as well as local units. For example land is always measured
in square "Wah", or "Lai", cloth is sold by both metric or imperial
measurement, excepting for hand woven which is measured by the
distance from a woman's finger tip to her nose (small women weave
shorter lengths), time is measured in hours and minutes either after
midnight, or after daybreak, mid-day, evening and midnight.

And strangely enough, everyone seems to understand each other.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Mighty Wannabe]

On Feb 14, 12:46 am, John B. <johnbsloc...@gmail.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 17:54:49 -0800 (PST), Mighty Wannabe
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

That is the situation promoters of S.I. Units are trying to
eliminate.

I remember the days when Canada was still using imperial gallon at the
pump, and because of the close proximity of the USA, we often had to
verify if it was US gallon or Imperial gallon we were talking about in
our conversation.

[John B.]

Well, I can only sympathies with you. I lived pretty close to the
Canadian border and we never specified what kind of a gallon we were
talking about. For us it was the kind of gallon that they sold down at
the Texaco Station.

--
Cheers,

John B.

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 18:14:14 +0700, John B. <johnbs...@gmail.com>

The canadian gallon gave about 20% better gas mileage (in miles per
gallon)

[Stormin Mormon]

Thanks for the field report. As to NYS, the web
site appears accurate, to my knowledge.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:1IidnVucHY6n84HM...@earthlink.com...

> > http://pure-gas.org/
> >
> > Hope that's of some help for you.
> >

[John B.]

When I was a young fellow "gas mileage" was the least of my interests.
Trying to figure out whether Linda LaBlanc would "put out" or not was
a much more absorbing subject then "how many miles do you get to a
gallon" ever could hope to be.
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Mighty Wannabe" <mightw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:38217324-5d4c-4302-b25a-

>That is the situation promoters of S.I. Units are trying to
>eliminate.
>I remember the days when Canada was still using imperial gallon at
>the
>pump, and because of the close proximity of the USA, we often had to
>verify if it was US gallon or Imperial gallon we were talking about
>in
>our conversation.

That was the situation in France that the disgruntled, math-impaired
revolutionaries wanted to correct. Somehow the merchants had managed
with it for centuries. The people who demand changes to society are
often misfits who can't function within it.

[Steve W.]

Check near a marina, airport or race track. You can usually find some
that way. In NY all of the Fastrac stores carry it in premium grade.
I run it in all the small engines and fill up whatever vehicle I'm
driving at the time. VERY noticeable difference over corn gas of the
same octane rating.

--
Steve W.

[Steve W.]

Things get a bit rocky....

--
Steve W.

[Steve W.]

The Florida law has a bunch of exemptions in it. Aircraft, boats and
watercraft, fuel sold to a blender, or used in collector vehicles,
off-road vehicles, motorcycles, and small engines are exempt.

526.203 Renewable fuel standard.--
6145 (1) DEFINITIONS.--As used in this act:
6146 (a) "Blender," "importer," "terminal supplier," and
6147 "wholesaler" are defined as provided in s. 206.01.
6148 (b) "Blended gasoline" means a mixture of 90 to 91 percent
6149 gasoline and 9 to 10 percent fuel ethanol, by volume, that meets
6150 the specifications as adopted by the department. The fuel
6151 ethanol portion may be derived from any agricultural source.
6152 (c) "Fuel ethanol" means an anhydrous denatured alcohol
6153 produced by the conversion of carbohydrates that meets the
6154 specifications as adopted by the department.
6155 (d) "Unblended gasoline" means gasoline that has not been
6156 blended with fuel ethanol and that meets the specifications as
6157 adopted by the department.
6158 (2) FUEL STANDARD.--Beginning December 31, 2010, all
6159 gasoline sold or offered for sale in Florida by a terminal
6160 supplier, importer, blender, or wholesaler shall be blended
6161 gasoline.
6162 (3) EXEMPTIONS.--The requirements of this act do not apply
6163 to the following:
6164 (a) Fuel used in aircraft.
6165 (b) Fuel sold for use in boats and similar watercraft.
6166 (c) Fuel sold to a blender.
6167 (d) Fuel sold for use in collector vehicles or vehicles
6168 eligible to be licensed as collector vehicles, off-road
6169 vehicles, motorcycles, or small engines.
6170 (e) Fuel unable to comply due to requirements of the
6171 United States Environmental Protection Agency.
6172 (f) Fuel transferred between terminals.
6173 (g) Fuel exported from the state in accordance with s.
6174 206.052.
6175 (h) Fuel qualifying for any exemption in accordance with
6176 chapter 206.
6177 (i) Fuel for a railroad locomotive.
6178 (j) Fuel for equipment, including vehicle or vessel,
6179 covered by a warranty that would be voided, if explicitly stated
6180 in writing by the vehicle or vessel manufacturer, if the
6181 equipment were to be operated using fuel meeting the
6182 requirements of subsection (2).

I would say the 362 is a low number.

--
Steve W.

[Stormin Mormon]

Please tell me you weren't stoned when you wrote that?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Steve W." <csr...@NOTyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:yg6Ts.36537$Hq1....@newsfe23.iad...

[Larry]

[This followup was posted to alt.survival and a copy was sent to the cited
author.]

In article <kfg494$obk$1...@dont-email.me>, frankdo...@comcast.net says...

>
> On 2/12/2013 9:02 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > Frank wrote:
> >>

> >> I don't know what did my snow thrower in but I believe the shop had a
> >> kit to rebuild the seals. Reading fine print of snow thrower manual it
> >> said not to use gas with ethanol.
> >>
> >> That's the only crap that's available around here.
> >
> >
> > Is there a marina or small airport?
> >
>
> Should be and I understand these gases are ethanol free.
> I don't know where these places are but it would be at least a 50 mile
> round trip to get a gallon of gas.
>
> I remember a few years when the ethanol mandate came through, gas
> stations were shutting down so the tanks could be cleaned as any crud in
> them would be dissolved and contaminate the ethanol containing gas.
>
> They can only ship this gas from the refineries in trucks and cannot use
> pipelines for the same reason.
>
> Studies have shown that the energy obtained from ethanol is probably
> only slightly higher than the energy consumed to make it. Add all the
> other negatives including the increased cost of food during a corn
> shortage and you're looking at a negative return on your investment
> which also means you have not done any thing to improve the environment.

However, it does a lot to improve the supply of gasoline, far beyond the 10%
volume increase from the blend. Refineries are only cooking about 83 octane
gas, and the rest of the octane rating comes from ethanol. Take the ethanol
out and you would lose a quarter of the US gasoline supply.

I'm surprised you don't have small service stations selling ethanol-free
premium gas for chainsaws and such. Ask around, I bet you have them.

[jim]

Larry wrote:

>
> However, it does a lot to improve the supply of gasoline, far beyond the 10%
> volume increase from the blend. Refineries are only cooking about 83 octane
> gas, and the rest of the octane rating comes from ethanol. Take the ethanol
> out and you would lose a quarter of the US gasoline supply.

I don't know how you came to calculate 1/4 of the gas supply?

The extra refining cost to make 87 octane rather than 83 octane
includes about a 3% reduction in output. That suggests that if
there was a sudden end to converting corn to alcohol, but no
reduction in corn production, you would need about 13% more gasoline
to make up the difference. The price of gasoline would also increase
by maybe 10%. This would require in the range of 6%-7% more petroleum
and the increase in gasoline prices would be offset some by a
lowering in prices of other petroleum products that would now be
in greater supply.

>
> I'm surprised you don't have small service stations selling ethanol-free
> premium gas for chainsaws and such. Ask around, I bet you have them.

I think everywhere marinas and general aviation airports have
outlets where ethanol free gasoline is sold.

[Steve W.]

Not me, Clear as quartz maybe...

[Wild_Bill]

"The people who demand changes to society are often misfits who can't
function within it."

Jim Wilkins RCM Feb 2013

This is the most sensible comment in the entire thread.. thanks, Jim.

--
WB
.........


"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:kfip6m$e4a$1...@dont-email.me...

[cl...@snyder.on.ca]

ASSume ethanol os 115 octane and pump gas, sans ethanol is 90
octane, and the pump dispenses E10. What is the octane of the pump
gas? The ethanol is 25% higher than straight gasoline, so with the
fuel being 10% ethanol, the pump fuel octane would increase 2.5%.

For every point higher the base fuel is, the increase in octane from
using 10% ethanol decreases.

In actual fact, the R/M2 octane of 200 proof non-denatured ethanol is
between 100 and 100.5.

Difference from 87 octane regular to pure hooch is 17 points, so at
10% you are looking at 1.7 points improvement - 87 becomes 88.7 octane
- if the hooch is pure. (anhydrous) Any moisture in the mix drops the
octane - and motor fuel ethanol is NOT 200 proof. It is, at best, 97%
- which is 194 proof when it leaves the plant - and it absorbs
moisture whenever exposed to the atmosphere. E10 is MAXIMUM 10%
ethanol - so the actual ethanol contribution to octane is a piddly
1.5%, +/1..

The only "real" reason to use ethanol in a gasoline fuel blend is as
an oxygenator - and even there it's effect and requirement is
questionable.

[Michael A. Terrell]

We would be better off without the misfits. Maybe gather them all
up, put them on a tiny island to have a real life version of Survivor?
The real problem is getting the millions of them to that island. :(

[Michael A. Terrell]

Not when the same trucks deliver to all regular gas stations.
Airfieldds & marinas are on seperate delivery routes, according to the
fuel truck drivers. Most of what you posted has nothing to do with
retail gasoline sales.

[jim]

cl...@snyder.on.ca wrote:

> Difference from 87 octane regular to pure hooch is 17 points, so at
> 10% you are looking at 1.7 points improvement - 87 becomes 88.7 octane
> - if the hooch is pure. (anhydrous) Any moisture in the mix drops the
> octane - and motor fuel ethanol is NOT 200 proof. It is, at best, 97%
> - which is 194 proof when it leaves the plant - and it absorbs
> moisture whenever exposed to the atmosphere. E10 is MAXIMUM 10%
> ethanol - so the actual ethanol contribution to octane is a piddly
> 1.5%, +/1..

Regardless of your calculations It is a well known fact that
10% ethanol adds about 3 octane points to the base gasoline.

that means if you extract the ethanol from 87 octane
regular you are left with a 84 octane fuel at best.
Probably lower. In the refining business it is called
"octane giveaway" to produce a base gasoline blend stock
that has more octane than required. The typical
low octane blendstock is now around 83.7 octane but
can be as low as 82.

http://www.colpipe.com/pdfs/Colonial%20Sect%203%20Prod%20Proposed.pdf
http://tinyurl.com/aelus9b
http://www.platts.com/IM.Platts.Content/methodologyreferences/methodologyspecs/usoilproductspecs.pdf

Conventional Gasoline Blending Components (CBOB): CBOB is
conventional gasoline with a minimum octane of 82 (R+M/2) but
typically has 83.5 octane. Ethanol is blended with CBOB to
produce 87 Octane conventional gasoline.

[Steve W.]

The same trucks also carry more than one type of fuel as well. Easy
enough to carry premium without alcohol, low grade with alcohol and let
the pump system blend them for the mid grade stuff.

What I posted covers ALL fuels sold in Florida. Retail or wholesale.
Notice it says that all fuels are to be blended EXCEPT the exempted
uses. Nothing says where those exempted fuels get sold or what they HAVE
to be used in.

In most stations they only deliver two grades of gas anyway. You have
the high octane and low octane, the mid grades are pump mixed fuels.
The alcohol free fuel is the high octane in every station that sells it
in NY and PA.

Oh and you do know that ALL of the stations that Pure gas lists are
entered by people who have bought gas at those stations.
Looking at some of the listings and the maps for them shows that most
are located near water. The marine exemption covers that.

--
Steve W.

[Michael A. Terrell]

"Steve W." wrote:
>
> Oh and you do know that ALL of the stations that Pure gas lists are
> entered by people who have bought gas at those stations.
> Looking at some of the listings and the maps for them shows that most
> are located near water. The marine exemption covers that.

Who would ecxpect to find marinas in Florida?

[Stormin Mormon]

And provide them with ethanol gasoline?

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:NdSdneS_K4-OsIDM...@earthlink.com...

[Frank]

On 2/13/2013 7:26 PM, Ed Huntress wrote:
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 18:58:54 -0500, Frank
> <frankdo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 2/13/2013 8:33 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:

>>> On Wed, 13 Feb 2013 08:26:21 -0500, Frank
>>> <frankdo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On 2/12/2013 9:02 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>> Frank wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>> I don't know what did my snow thrower in but I believe the shop had a
>>>>>> kit to rebuild the seals. Reading fine print of snow thrower manual it
>>>>>> said not to use gas with ethanol.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> That's the only crap that's available around here.
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>> Is there a marina or small airport?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>> Should be and I understand these gases are ethanol free.
>>>> I don't know where these places are but it would be at least a 50 mile
>>>> round trip to get a gallon of gas.
>>>>
>>>> I remember a few years when the ethanol mandate came through, gas
>>>> stations were shutting down so the tanks could be cleaned as any crud in
>>>> them would be dissolved and contaminate the ethanol containing gas.
>>>>
>>>> They can only ship this gas from the refineries in trucks and cannot use
>>>> pipelines for the same reason.
>>>>
>>>> Studies have shown that the energy obtained from ethanol is probably
>>>> only slightly higher than the energy consumed to make it. Add all the
>>>> other negatives including the increased cost of food during a corn
>>>> shortage and you're looking at a negative return on your investment
>>>> which also means you have not done any thing to improve the environment.
>>>

>>> Corn-derived ethanol is indeed a loser in economic terms. One hopes
>>> for a breakthrough with cellulose-derived ethanol but we've been
>>> waiting for a while.
>>>
>>> Meantime, other projects are underway and one or more may pay off. Or
>>> maybe not.
>>>
>>> BTW, most of the problem with gas station fuel tanks is water in the
>>> tanks. Ethanol will combine with the water; when the water content
>>> reaches about 4% of the alcohol content, the alcohol begins to
>>> separate from the gasoline. Bad news.
>>>
>>> One irony of the situation is that alcohol with no gasoline in it can
>>> absorb a lot more water without harming its properties as a fuel. You
>>> only need the really pure stuff (over 98% alcohol) when you mix it
>>> with gasoline.
>>>
>>
>> Cellulose based prima facia does not seem like a bad idea but it takes
>> several times as much land to grow the equivalent amount of something
>> like switch grass. I don't think there is enough farm land in the whole
>> country if all we could use would be E85.
>>
>> I'll also bet it would be cheaper to make ethanol from petroleum but the
>> environmentalists would go berserk over this.
>
> Ha! It could be.
>
> As for the switchgrass, I'd be willing to donate my back yard to the
> cause, if they'd mow it every week or two.
>

I've been offering carbon credits to any environmentalist that would pay
me not to cut my grass. So far, no takers.

[Cydrome Leader]

dca...@krl.org <dca...@krl.org> wrote:

> On Feb 13, 6:09?pm, Mighty Wannabe <mightwann...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> It takes time for the UK to change completely but they are working on
>> it. The US will be the only one left in the world using completely
>> Imperial units.
>

> The U.S. does not use completely imperial units. The American cars
> are metric, and pretty much everything electronic is metric. So the
> two largest U.S. industries are metric. Ob I forget the soft drink
> industry uses metric too.
>
> So tell me about how the imperial units for electric power. The
> metric unit is kilowatt hours.

kilowatt hours are energy, not power.

[Jim Wilkins]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:NdSdneS_K4-OsIDMnZ2dnUVZ_r->

>
> We would be better off without the misfits. Maybe gather them all
> up, put them on a tiny island to have a real life version of
> Survivor?
> The real problem is getting the millions of them to that island. :(

How did California do it?

[Stormin Mormon]

I think california *IS* the island full of
misfits. They must use a lot of ethanol
gasoline, there.

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.

"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message

news:kfjqit$gfh$1...@dont-email.me...

[John B.]

I can't see why a measurement based on some division of the
theoretical diameter of the earth, drawn through some arbitrary point,
is any more logical than the length of the King's foot. But of course
it was NEW and DIFFERENT and NEW and DIFFERENT is always better.
Witness the Ford Edsel :-)
--
Cheers,

John B.

[Michael A. Terrell]

They own the only working 'Fruit & Nut magnet'.

[Jim Wilkins]

"John B." <johnbs...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:sh5rh8dgvdcaq2dnh...@4ax.com...

> On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 08:36:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> I can't see why a measurement based on some division of the
> theoretical diameter of the earth, drawn through some arbitrary
> point,

> is any more logical than the length of the King's foot. ...
> John B.

A system based on the size of the planet helps with navigation, which
is why the Nautical Mile and 360-degree circle have survived.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nautical_mile
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gradian

The precision of measurement wasn't very good in the 1790's and the
original metric standards didn't meet their definitions.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Litre
"It was subsequently discovered that the cylinder was around 28 parts
per million too large..."

The earth's equatorial circumference is actually 40,075.017 km rather
than the intended 40,000 even. That 75km is important if you have
sailed or flown a long distance and are trying to find your
destination by instruments.
http://searchforamelia.org/final-flight

[Jim Wilkins]

"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message

news:q7adnTZ5cYp-M4DM...@earthlink.com...

In one of Joss Whedon's scifi scripts a subject escapes the lab after
having his brain flushed.
"Leave him out on the street? Completely wiped?"
"He'll be an empty- headed robot wandering around Hollywood. He'll be
fine."

In another the hero enters an exterior street-level elevator in LA for
a long trip to Hell. When the doors finally open he is right where he
started.

[Frnak McKenney]

I know I'm going to regret this...

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 13:29:38 -0500, Michael A. Terrell <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> Jim Wilkins wrote:

[...]

>> That was the situation in France that the disgruntled,
>> math-impaired revolutionaries wanted to correct. Somehow the
>> merchants had managed with it for centuries. The people who demand
>> changes to society are often misfits who can't function within it.
>
> We would be better off without the misfits. Maybe gather them all
> up, put them on a tiny island to have a real life version of
> Survivor? The real problem is getting the millions of them to that
> island. :(

Um. ... _Which_ misfits? ( Do I get to pick them? )


Frank McKenney
--
Evolution did not set us on a trajectory toward the _perfect_
brain, the best possible brain, or even, arguably, a decent
brain. Rather we got the amateur version, the unendingly
fiddled-with version, a flawed instrument just good enough to
get us through to reproductive age. After that achievement,
evolution occurs ( or not ) without a central mission, which
might explain the onset of loopy eccentricity in middle-aged
aunts and uncles. -- Jack Hitt / Bunch of Amateurs
--
Frank McKenney, McKenney Associates
Richmond, Virginia / (804) 320-4887
Munged E-mail: frank uscore mckenney aatt mindspring ddoott com

[Michael A. Terrell]

Jim Wilkins wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:q7adnTZ5cYp-M4DM...@earthlink.com...
> >
> > Jim Wilkins wrote:
> >>
> >> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> >> news:NdSdneS_K4-OsIDMnZ2dnUVZ_r->
> >> >
> >> > We would be better off without the misfits. Maybe gather them
> >> > all
> >> > up, put them on a tiny island to have a real life version of
> >> > Survivor?
> >> > The real problem is getting the millions of them to that island.
> >> > :(
> >>
> >> How did California do it?
> >
> > They own the only working 'Fruit & Nut magnet'.
>
> In one of Joss Whedon's scifi scripts a subject escapes the lab after
> having his brain flushed.
> "Leave him out on the street? Completely wiped?"
> "He'll be an empty- headed robot wandering around Hollywood. He'll be
> fine."
>
> In another the hero enters an exterior street-level elevator in LA for
> a long trip to Hell. When the doors finally open he is right where he
> started.

And people ask why I never took that job in California. :)

[Gerry Miller]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 17:18:53 -0500, Frank
<frankdo...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>I've been offering carbon credits to any environmentalist that would pay
>me not to cut my grass. So far, no takers.

I've been offering to buy a new, enviro friendly lawn mower from
whoever will sell it to me for what I paid for the one I am currently
using (two dumpster dives combined).

[Gerry Miller]

On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 08:36:39 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:

>"Mighty Wannabe" <mightw...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:38217324-5d4c-4302-b25a-
>>That is the situation promoters of S.I. Units are trying to
>>eliminate.
>>I remember the days when Canada was still using imperial gallon at
>>the
>>pump, and because of the close proximity of the USA, we often had to
>>verify if it was US gallon or Imperial gallon we were talking about
>>in
>>our conversation.
>

>That was the situation in France that the disgruntled, math-impaired
>revolutionaries wanted to correct. Somehow the merchants had managed
>with it for centuries. The people who demand changes to society are
>often misfits who can't function within it.
>

The shitiation we currently live with in the great frozen north is
thatwe see meat advertised at $4.99/ pound butwhen I go to the store
to buy it,I end up paying $10.99/ kilogram. I, personaly am used
toconverting back and forth subconsiously but SWMBO sometimes get a
bit upset when she sees the unit price on the package.

[Gerry Miller]

>No, we have them all here, just NE of the Ottawa river

[Jim Wilkins]

"Gerry Miller" <grmi...@rogers.com> wrote in message
news:kbjth8dpsepaunv9l...@4ax.com...

>>
> The shitiation we currently live with in the great frozen north is
> thatwe see meat advertised at $4.99/ pound butwhen I go to the store
> to buy it,I end up paying $10.99/ kilogram. I, personaly am used
> toconverting back and forth subconsiously but SWMBO sometimes get a
> bit upset when she sees the unit price on the package.

Today's beef roast cost $2.99 a pound. I left it simmering on the wood
stove with potatoes and onions all day.

The store hides it behind the pieces priced closer to $10.99 a pound.

[Max Boot]

On 2/15/2013 4:33 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> "Gerry Miller" <grmi...@rogers.com> wrote in message
> news:kbjth8dpsepaunv9l...@4ax.com...
>>>
>> The shitiation we currently live with in the great frozen north is
>> thatwe see meat advertised at $4.99/ pound butwhen I go to the store
>> to buy it,I end up paying $10.99/ kilogram. I, personaly am used
>> toconverting back and forth subconsiously but SWMBO sometimes get a
>> bit upset when she sees the unit price on the package.
>
> Today's beef roast cost $2.99 a pound. I left it simmering on the wood
> stove with potatoes and onions all day.

You shouldn't simmer potatoes all day. They'll disintegrate. Add
potatoes to something like that only for the last 15-30 minutes,
depending on how big the potato chunks are.