On carbon vs. stainless steel in grills
Ignoramus17356
barbeques. A common theme, mentioned by several people, was that a
grill is a terribly corrosive environment because of heat, salt, acid
and condensation, all combining to ruin any ferrous metal. They said
that even stainless would rust.
This is a followup to that discussion. I found replacement parts for
my grill (cast iron burners and stainless flame tamers, to replace
ceramic flame tamers).
While replacing the old parts, I noticed that the stainless parts, in
close proximity to carbon steel parts, DID NOT RUST AT ALL. At worst
they were "discolored" after 8 years in the grill, if that, but had
essentially no rust or pitting. All the while, the old burners
completely rotted out and resembed a pile or rust flakes more than a
solid piece of metal. Some fell apart when lifted out of the
grill. The stainless pieces, however, looked almost like new.
So it is not true to say that stainless steel rusts in grills, it
essentially does not.
i
Karl Townsend
> While replacing the old parts, I noticed that the stainless parts, in
> close proximity to carbon steel parts, DID NOT RUST AT ALL. At worst
> they were "discolored" after 8 years in the grill, if that, but had
> essentially no rust or pitting. All the while, the old burners
> completely rotted out and resembed a pile or rust flakes more than a
> solid piece of metal. Some fell apart when lifted out of the
> grill. The stainless pieces, however, looked almost like new.
>
> So it is not true to say that stainless steel rusts in grills, it
> essentially does not.
Similar story... I asked about passivating an SS weldament to be used for a
chum ladle (chum is ground up fish bait) The consensus was no way could you
prevent rusting in this application. Well, for at least one year of use, no
rust at all. SS is good stuff Maynard!
Karl
Ignoramus17356
Yes, Sir, indeed stainless is good stuff.
i
Leo Lichtman
"Ignoramus17356" wrote: Yes, Sir, indeed stainless is good stuff.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
A rose is a rose is a rose--but stainless comes in a variety of alloys.
From your experience, some are good in the barbecue, but others may not be.
Ignoramus17356
It looks like my barbecue is using the particular alloy that is good
in barbecues.
i
JIMMIE
I think cast iron has some qualities that make it better for cooking.
From the experience I have had with mine the cast iron is going to
last forever as long as I keep it properly seasoned and maintained. I
have overheated mine a couple of times and this ruins the seasoning
and it must be re-accomplished. I do this by oiling them up and baking
them in the oven. I clean them using oven cleaner and a SS brush.
Super heating them by turning up the gas ruins them although cleaning
them in a self cleaning oven works well without ruining the seasoning
provided they are removed from the oven as soon as the cycle is over
and oiled.
Jimmie
Oren
When I bought my grill, I used the "magnet test for stainless steel" *
The magnet did not stick to the grill grates and have not rusted in
the five years I've had it.
"If the magnet sticks, don't buy it."
Scott Lurndal
A single sample cannot be considered representative.
Ignoramus17356
> Ignoramus17356 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17356.invalid> writes:
>>On 2010-04-06, Leo Lichtman <leo.li...@att.net> wrote:
>>> "Ignoramus17356" wrote: Yes, Sir, indeed stainless is good stuff.
>>> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
>>> A rose is a rose is a rose--but stainless comes in a variety of alloys.
>>> From your experience, some are good in the barbecue, but others may not be.
>>
>>It looks like my barbecue is using the particular alloy that is good
>>in barbecues.
>
I did some reading on the subject of stainless steel in grills: it
seems that the cheap manufacturers use low grade and essentially
inappropriate steels that they call "stainless", but which do rust in
grills after the return period runs out.
Apparently, my grill is mostly made of proper stainless. It is not
fully stainless, however, and there are iron screws in it that have
rotted, as well as a few other minor pieces. This is a Sam's Club
"Members Mark" grill.
i
fran...123
"Ignoramus17356" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17356.invalid> wrote in message
news:a9GdncdEzoPFQibW...@giganews.com...
use charcoal and it gets wet when it rains can't say I notice any corrosion
on anything but the Weber plated steel round thing you put the food on. The
only welding related thing is attaching a rotisserie device and then
modifying the rotisserie basket to fit in the keg.
Fran
Ernie Leimkuhler
<Or...@127.0.0.1> wrote:
Try walking through the IKEA kitchen section with a small magnet.
Amazing how much of their "stainless steel" is magnetic.
Surprised the hell out of me when I first noticed it.
Bob Villa
> In article <ge3nr59j81v6p2na5fsqhoqk2nm7o48...@4ax.com>, Oren> > <ignoramus17...@NOSPAM.17356.invalid> wrote:
>
> > >On 2010-04-06, Leo Lichtman <leo.licht...@att.net> wrote:
>
> > >> "Ignoramus17356" wrote: Yes, Sir, indeed stainless is good stuff.
> > >> ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
> > >> A rose is a rose is a rose--but stainless comes in a variety of alloys.
> > >> From your experience, some are good in the barbecue, but others may not
> > >> be.
>
> > >It looks like my barbecue is using the particular alloy that is good
> > >in barbecues.
>
> > >i
>
> > When I bought my grill, I used the "magnet test for stainless steel" *
> > The magnet did not stick to the grill grates and have not rusted in
> > the five years I've had it.
>
> > "If the magnet sticks, don't buy it."
>
> >http://bbq.about.com/od/gasgrills/a/aa052706a.htm
>
> Try walking through the IKEA kitchen section with a small magnet.
> Amazing how much of their "stainless steel" is magnetic.
> Surprised the hell out of me when I first noticed it.
Many types of SS (I believe "alloy" is a word used in "castings") are
good quality even if magnetic. It depends on the amount of chromium
used. And IIRC, the non-magnetic is nickel stainless.
bob
fran...123
"Bob Villa" <pheeh...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:032e4a58-aebd-4909...@r1g2000yqb.googlegroups.com...
bob
Isn't really the symmetry of the crystalline structure of the metal grains
involved in whether the stuff is magnetic or not? The hexagonal symmetry
grains being magnetic.
Fran
sta...@prolynx.com
> "Bob Villa" <pheeh.z...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> - Show quoted text -
Depends on whether it's got ferrite in it or not. High chromium/
nickel steels aren't magnetic, but make lousy knives and gun parts.
Finished reading a book on intergranular corrosion in stainless, the
stuff tends to get attacked on grain boundaries because the grain
themselves have the oxide protection. So eventually the material
literally falls apart, how fast depends on how large the grains are.
Forged/rolled items tend to have fine grain structure, as-cast is
coarse. Weldments are probably coarse unless post-treated somehow.
Had one junk man who depended on his little magnet to tell him if his
junk was stainless steel or not, had to tell him that it could be
stainless AND magnetic, he didn't believe me.
Stan
JTMcC
news:HZCdnTCuTJh5HCbW...@giganews.com...
Right, "stainless steel" is a broad and non technical term. It comes in many
different alloys for different applications.
A magnet isn't an accurate gage for determining the quality of a particular
alloy for a particular application.
I've installed hundreds of tons of stainless alloys that were magnetic (and
incredibly expensive) that are now at the bottom of lakes. On intake
structures for hydro plants.
What's commonly called stainless is a large and somewhat complex field and
you really can't boil it down into a small book.
JTMcC
whit3rd
> Many types of SS (I believe "alloy" is a word used in "castings") are
> good quality even if magnetic.
> Isn't really the symmetry of the crystalline structure of the metal grains
> involved in whether the stuff is magnetic or not? The hexagonal symmetry
> grains being magnetic.
It's something like that. The 300-series stainless steels are
nonmagnetic,
BUT that's by an 'as annealed' test; once you whack it with a hammer,
the strained parts can magnetize.
Martin H. Eastburn
Austenitic Stainless steels are non-magnetic.
Chrome 16-26%, nickel less or = to 35% and so forth.
There are so many alloys and it is a complex task to measure.
The fancy machines that blast them and measure the reflections -
are not all perfect. Been there had it done to me.
Martin
Bob La Londe
"Martin H. Eastburn" <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
> Nickel is magnetic by itself.
It is? In what form? How would I go about proving that to myself in an
easily measurable manner?
Nickel plated steel would still be magnetic of course, but it's the steel
under the nickel.
Ignoramus16651
I believe that cobalt is magnetic, but not nickel.
i
sparky
>
> >> Nickel is magnetic by itself.
>
> > It is? In what form? How would I go about proving that to myself in an
> > easily measurable manner?
>
> > Nickel plated steel would still be magnetic of course, but it's the steel
> > under the nickel.
>
> I believe that cobalt is magnetic, but not nickel.
>
> i
The 38 elements in groups 3 through 12 of the periodic table are
called "transition metals". As with all metals, the transition
elements are both ductile and malleable, and conduct electricity and
heat. The interesting thing about transition metals is that their
valence electrons, or the electrons they use to combine with other
elements, are present in more than one shell. This is the reason why
they often exhibit several common oxidation states.
There are three noteworthy elements in the transition metals family.
These elements are iron, cobalt, and nickel, and they are the only
elements known to produce a magnetic field.
The Transition Metals are:
Scandium
Titanium
Vanadium
Chromium
Manganese
Iron
Cobalt
Nickel
Copper
Zinc
Yttrium
Zirconium
Niobium
Molybdenum
Technetium
Ruthenium
Rhodium
Palladium
Silver
Cadmium
Hafnium
Tantalum
Tungsten
Rhenium
Osmium
Iridium
Platinum
Gold
Mercury
Rutherfordium
Dubnium
Seaborgium
Bohrium
Hassium
Meitnerium
Ununnilium
Unununium
Ununbium
Joe
Both are magnetic. I don't know of any other room temperature magnetic
materials than those and iron.
The old Canuck nickels (multi-sided) would attract a magnet - higher
Ni content than now.
Joe
Ecnerwal
"Bob La Londe" <nos...@nospam.no> wrote:
Empirically, the rather low-nickel alloy (it's 70-75% copper, as I
recall, you can look it up, I'm not bothering right now) that US nickels
(currency, coin) are made from ignores a nice strong hard-drive magnet...
It may depend on crystal structure, as does steel (most back-yard heat
treaters are aware of steel going non-magnetic as a good temperature
indicator of when it might be hot enough to quench, at least if it's
plain carbon steel.)
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
whit3rd
> "Martin H. Eastburn" <lionsl...@consolidated.net> wrote in message
>
> > Nickel is magnetic by itself.
>
> It is? In what form? How would I go about proving that to myself in an
> easily measurable manner?
With a small magnet and a Canadian dime? That's how I do it.
The copper-nickel alloy of US 'nickels' is not ferromagnetic.
James Waldby
> On Apr 8, 11:42 am, Ignoramus16651 ... wrote:
>> On 2010-04-08, Bob La Londe ...wrote:
>> > "Martin H. Eastburn" ... wrote ...
>> >> Nickel is magnetic by itself.
>>
>> > It is? In what form? How would I go about proving that to myself in
>> > an easily measurable manner?
>>
>> > Nickel plated steel would still be magnetic of course, but it's the
>> > steel under the nickel.
>>
>> I believe that cobalt is magnetic, but not nickel.
> The 38 elements in groups 3 through 12 of the periodic table are called
> "transition metals". As with all metals, the transition elements are
> both ductile and malleable, and conduct electricity and heat. The
> interesting thing about transition metals is that their valence
> electrons, or the electrons they use to combine with other elements, are
> present in more than one shell. This is the reason why they often
> exhibit several common oxidation states.
>
> There are three noteworthy elements in the transition metals family.
>
> These elements are iron, cobalt, and nickel, and they are the only
> elements known to produce a magnetic field.
Presumably you mean at room temperature, 293 K - 298 K? Gadolinium
comes close, with a Curie temperature of 292 K, which is about 66°F
or 18.8°C. [It's a "silvery-white, malleable and ductile rare-earth
metal", per <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gadolinium>.]
> The Transition Metals are:
> Scandium
[snip 3 dozen lines]
> Ununbium
See <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetism> for a list of Curie
temperatures for 16 crystalline ferromagnetic and ferrimagnetic materials.
It seems that 6 elements (Fe, Co, Ni, Gd, Dy, Li) have been observed to
produce ferromagnetic magnetic fields. Li isn't shown in the chart but
is mentioned in a later paragraph, with a Curie temp well below 1 K for
Li gas.
Re the original question, although US nickel coins are 1/4 nickel,
3/4 copper*, they seem to be non-ferromagnetic, as mentioned before.
*<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_(United_States_coin)>.
--
jiw
Bob La Londe
news:04f13eec-534a-42f7...@x2g2000vbe.googlegroups.com...
I would not think it would be 'FERRO'magnetic even if it was pure nickel.
LOL.
Ed Huntress
"Bob La Londe" <nos...@nospam.no> wrote in message
news:hpm41u$cp5$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
<g> Ah, yeah, it is. Cobalt is, too. Ferromagnetism refers today to the
physics of one particular magnetism mechanism, not to the material, although
obviously that's where the term came from.
--
Ed Huntress.
Martin H. Eastburn
in experiments that with heat the magnetism would halt with heat and return
as it cooled. We could do a swing of sorts.
Buy some nickel wire or a nickel sample sheet. But then save a buck and look
at Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel
It is one of four 'ferromagnetic' elements.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
Co 1388 <---- Cobalt
Fe 1043 <---- Iron
FeOFe2O3* 858
NiOFe2O3* 858
CuOFe2O3* 728
MgOFe2O3* 713
MnBi 630
Ni 627 <---- Nickel
MnSb 587
MnOFe2O3* 573
Y3Fe5O12* 560
CrO2 386
MnAs 318
Gd 292
Dy 88
EuO 69
Ferromagnetic metals and compounds have a Curie temp. Meaning
that is the point where magnetism is lost cool slightly and it returns.
Martin
Martin H. Eastburn
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ferromagnetic
Like in the beginning - iron is the magnetic material. Then other elements
were found.
The Canadian Nickel (I have a few still) are or were 8 or 12 sided Nickel metal
pressings. IIRC, mine have a Beaver on the back - Queen on the front.
Martin
ATP
"Ignoramus17356" <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17356.invalid> wrote in message
>A few days ago I asked about use of stainless steel in grills and
> barbeques. A common theme, mentioned by several people, was that a
> grill is a terribly corrosive environment because of heat, salt, acid
> and condensation, all combining to ruin any ferrous metal. They said
> that even stainless would rust.
>
> This is a followup to that discussion. I found replacement parts for
> my grill (cast iron burners and stainless flame tamers, to replace
> ceramic flame tamers).
>
> While replacing the old parts, I noticed that the stainless parts, in
> close proximity to carbon steel parts, DID NOT RUST AT ALL. At worst
> they were "discolored" after 8 years in the grill, if that, but had
> essentially no rust or pitting. All the while, the old burners
> completely rotted out and resembed a pile or rust flakes more than a
> solid piece of metal. Some fell apart when lifted out of the
> grill. The stainless pieces, however, looked almost like new.
>
> So it is not true to say that stainless steel rusts in grills, it
> essentially does not.
>
>
> i
Given the proximity of the rusting carbon steel, wouldn't that provide some
measure of cathodic protection?