Gingery, and who else?
The Dougster
machine shop. I like 'em! Another book I've seen is how to build a
lathe from ground flat tool steel. That's one high precision machine
tool!
Who else has written about this kind of thing?
Are there any books surveying the devlopment of machine tools
*historically* all the way back? (Including milestones like Maudsley's
screw cutter, and the lapping method of correcting leadscrews)
One of us here, if I remember, gave a link to his personal site of
machine tool history. I asked that a category of "universal machines"
be added. That was about five crashes ago. I've lost that link!
Do any of you have that one?
Douglas (Dana) Goncz
Replikon Research
Seven Corners, VA 22044-0394
F. George McDuffee
==========
Lindsay books has not only the Gingery series, but also carries a
line of reprints on early machine tools and history. These
change frequently, and his web site does not cover every book
that he stocks, so request a catalog and if you see anything you
like order quick. FWIW -- I have been a very satisfied Lindsay
customer for several years.
to start and get a catalog see
http://www.lindsaybks.com/
a few of the books that may be of interest [not everything is on
the website]
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks11/accurate/index.html
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks9/eal/index.html
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks6/ms00/index.html
http://www.lindsaybks.com/bks3/odds/index.html
and of course
http://www.lindsaybks.com/dgjp/index.html
Linsay also has several other build your own machine tool books.
http://www.lindsaybks.com/prod/allbks.html
Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
F. George McDuffee
>One of us here, if I remember, gave a link to his personal site of
>machine tool history. I asked that a category of "universal machines"
>be added. That was about five crashes ago. I've lost that link!
--------
try
http://opensourcemachine.org/
http://opensourcemachine.org/the-multimachine/multimachine-video
http://blog.makezine.com/archive/2005/07/the_multimachine_build_yo.html
http://makerfaireafrica.com/2009/06/09/the-multimachine-as-a-roadmap/
http://m.ictdev.org/pulse/20090814/africa/maker-faire-africa-rollin%E2%80%99
Has anybody built or run one?
Jim Wilkins
wrote:
> I have seen and read a bit of Gingery's books on bootstrapping a
> Who else has written about this kind of thing?
Someone wrote a book about using truck pistons as headstocks for their
homemade lathe and milling machine. The spindle runs in the wrist pin
hole.
> Are there any books surveying the devlopment of machine tools
> *historically* all the way back? (Including milestones like Maudsley's
> screw cutter, and the lapping method of correcting leadscrews)
>
> Douglas (Dana) Goncz
"English and American Machine Tool Builders" gives short histories of
the men who created machine tools and a little on the machines. The
Holtzapffel series describes the early machines from a lathe builder's
perspective, with line drawings good enough to make your own copies.
Other histories slight the Holtzapffels, perhaps because they were
German instead of English, but they were significant early
contributors, for example they sold 3-jaw self-centering lathe chucks
from 1811 on and built the complex geometric lathes that were like 3-
dimensional spirographs.
http://www.ornamentalturning.co.uk/index.1.jpg
"Hand or Simple Turning" and "Turning and Mechanical Manipulation"
together give the history of lathe development and the tools and
methods of originating screw threads.
http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=holtzapffel
I have dialup and can't download the full files here at home.
jsw
Denis G.
wrote:
I've seen the bookseller Nation Builder Books at a Cabin Fever Expo
that I attended several years back. Their website is www.nbbooks.com.
They carry some of the Gingery books, but mostly specialize in
metalworking history.
sta...@prolynx.com
wrote:
If you've got a decent large library with back issues of The Model
Engineer, they had lots of do-it-yourself machine tool building in the
pre-50's issues, folks were a lot poorer and more motivated back
then. One of the 1900's has a do-it-yourself hand-powered planer
series you could build with pattern-making directions and such.
You're supposed to take the patterns to your local foundry to get them
cast.
The local library has two of three volumes of historical machine tool
development, the set comprises lathes, milling machines and grinding
tools, they've got the ones for lathes and grinding. There are others
on the subject out there, but you'd probably have to visit a large
university library to read them, that's where I read them. Village
Publications has had several milling machine projects in their home
shop mags, one used an old 4 cylinder engine block for the arbor
foundation.
For freebies, don't forget Gutenberg and archive.org, both have
downloadable old machine-shop manuals.
Stan
Ed Huntress
<sta...@prolynx.com> wrote in message
news:47bbe0ad-72bb-470a...@k17g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Dec 23, 7:47 pm, The Dougster <dgoncz.703.475.7...@gmail.com>
wrote:
> I have seen and read a bit of Gingery's books on bootstrapping a
> machine shop. I like 'em! Another book I've seen is how to build a
> lathe from ground flat tool steel. That's one high precision machine
> tool!
>
> Who else has written about this kind of thing?
>
> Are there any books surveying the devlopment of machine tools
> *historically* all the way back? (Including milestones like Maudsley's
> screw cutter, and the lapping method of correcting leadscrews)
If you're in Ohio, you could look into the 100th Anniversay Issue of
_American Machinist_ (1978)
It's close to 300 pages, IIRC, tracing the development of machine tools and
metalworking manufacturing in the US from the beginning. It's available in a
few other libraries. I recommend it, because I helped write it. d8-)
You can Google search for ["american machinist" 100th anniversay issue] and
you'll see some other sources for it.
--
Ed Huntress
Gunner Asch
Im curious though...given the decline in the metalworking in the US..the
absolutely cheap or free machinery that is out there now days...why,
other than as an excercise..why would anyone in the US bother with
making a machine tool?
The stuff is so cheap (except for shipping) that its cost effective to
simply BUY a machine with pocket change.
Gunner
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
ATP*
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote in message
news:61c7j5highf6e8es9...@4ax.com...
projects aren't cost effective vs. purchasing.
pyotr filipivich
about Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:19:07 -0800 did write/type or cause to
appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
They are really, really anal, about quality control? That is,
they think they can make a better one?
>
>The stuff is so cheap (except for shipping) that its cost effective to
>simply BUY a machine with pocket change.
I used to make little wooden boxes, about 4" x 6". Someone asked
"Why don't you sell these?" Because it was something I did for the
doing. You could not afford the eight hours labor that went into
making it all by hand (no power tools), let alone the parts and
overhead.
But after getting some oak stock cleaned up, I quipped "Do it this
way, you understand why power tools were invented!"
tschus
pyotr
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
The Dougster
> Let the Record show that Gunner Asch <gun...@lightspeed.net> on or
> about Thu, 24 Dec 2009 10:19:07 -0800 did write/type or cause to
> appear in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>
>
>
>
> >On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 09:42:29 -0800 (PST), sta...@prolynx.com wrote:
>
> >>On Dec 23, 7:47 pm, The Dougster <dgoncz.703.475.7...@gmail.com>
> >>wrote:
> >>> I have seen and read a bit of Gingery's books on bootstrapping a
> >>> machine shop. I like 'em! Another book I've seen is how to build a
> >>> lathe from ground flat tool steel. That's one high precision machine
> >>> tool!
> >>If you've got a decent large library with back issues of The Model
> >>Engineer, they had lots of do-it-yourself machine tool building in the
> >>pre-50's issues, folks were a lot poorer and more motivated back
> >>then. One of the 1900's has a do-it-yourself hand-powered planer
> >>series you could build with pattern-making directions and such.
> >>You're supposed to take the patterns to your local foundry to get them
> >>cast.
>
> >> The local library has two of three volumes of historical machine tool
> >>development, the set comprises lathes, milling machines and grinding
> >>tools, they've got the ones for lathes and grinding. There are others
> >>on the subject out there, but you'd probably have to visit a large
> >>university library to read them, that's where I read them. Village
> >>Publications has had several milling machine projects in their home
> >>shop mags, one used an old 4 cylinder engine block for the arbor
> >>foundation.
>
(snip)
> >Im curious though...given the decline in the metalworking in the US..the
> >absolutely cheap or free machinery that is out there now days...why,
> >other than as an excercise..why would anyone in the US bother with
> >making a machine tool?
> They are really, really anal, about quality control? That is,
> they think they can make a better one?
> >The stuff is so cheap (except for shipping) that its cost effective to
> >simply BUY a machine with pocket change.
>
> I used to make little wooden boxes, about 4" x 6". Someone asked
> "Why don't you sell these?" Because it was something I did for the
> doing. You could not afford the eight hours labor that went into
> making it all by hand (no power tools), let alone the parts and
> overhead.
> But after getting some oak stock cleaned up, I quipped "Do it this
> way, you understand why power tools were invented!"
Many thanks to all in this Christmas Eve thread
Yep, I remember the truck-piston lathe, too.
Why make a machine tool?
"The Perfect Toothpick"
A lumberjack had a pair of dentures that were giving him trouble.
Rather than get the dentures fixed, he cut down a tree...and that was
how the Perfect Toothpick was made! LOL
something like that? A case of extremely linear (and yes, possibly
anal-retentive) thinking, perhaps....
I still have the lost link problem. The site had pictures and
descriptions of hundreds of classic machine tools going back more than
100 years, and the owner did me a favor by putting in a new category
after Mills, Lathes, etc. It was Universal Machines. There were a
dozen or two, from benchtop to submarine to even larger models.
We all live in a yellow submarine
It's painted pink and green
You know what I mean
We all live in a yellow submarine
It's painted pink and green
Inside
Happy Happy Joy Joy Christmas, everybody!
Doug
Ned Simmons
<dgoncz.70...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>I still have the lost link problem. The site had pictures and
>descriptions of hundreds of classic machine tools going back more than
>100 years, and the owner did me a favor by putting in a new category
>after Mills, Lathes, etc. It was Universal Machines. There were a
>dozen or two, from benchtop to submarine to even larger models.
This one?
http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html
--
Ned Simmons
Terry
<gun...@lightspeed.net> wrote:
>Im curious though...given the decline in the metalworking in the US..the
>absolutely cheap or free machinery that is out there now days...why,
>other than as an excercise..why would anyone in the US bother with
>making a machine tool?
>
>The stuff is so cheap (except for shipping) that its cost effective to
>simply BUY a machine with pocket change.
True... it is *now* cheaper to buy a lathe than to build a Gingery
lathe. But when I started my Gingery (around 1982) there were no
7x10s to be seen. And I was taken by the idea that I could cast parts
--- I've always enjoyed foundry --- and build a tool that I had merely
wanted for years (didn't need it and certainly couldn't justify it on
my salary at the time).
It took quite a few years but I finally did finish the lathe, and it
worked pretty well. Dave even sent me a certificate of completion.
And the foundry and hand work I had to put into the machine was well
worth the education I received.
Terry
Leon Fisk
<kb1...@gmail.com> wrote:
<snip>
>"Hand or Simple Turning" and "Turning and Mechanical Manipulation"
>together give the history of lathe development and the tools and
>methods of originating screw threads.
>http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=holtzapffel
>I have dialup and can't download the full files here at home.
>
>jsw
Forgive me if you already know this...
Along the left side of the page when you are looking at a
book on the Archive.org website you will see a link for "All
Files: HTTP". Example page:
http://www.archive.org/details/turningmechanica01holtuoft
this link:
http://ia311325.us.archive.org/2/items/turningmechanica01holtuoft
which will show you this file among many others:
http://ia311325.us.archive.org/2/items/turningmechanica01holtuoft/turningmechanica01holtuoft.djvu
Click on that and you get direct/download access to the Djvu
file. Otherwise you will get the Djvu stream, can't download
that very well. It is normally the smallest file that best
displays the whole book. Some of the books scanned by Google
first though are worthless in djvu format, have to stick
with the pdf version with those, which isn't very good
either...
The first "Turning & Mechanical Manipulation" book by
Holtzapffel is just shy of 19 mb in Djvu format (the example
I gave above). The first four books are available at
Archive.org. Book four is the largest, ~26 mb. I downloaded
all four using dial-up, it isn't all that bad (shrug).
WinDjvu is the best viewer for Djvu, look here:
http://windjview.sourceforge.net/
Open the installer (exe) with 7-Zip (look for it at
Sourceforge) and extract the exe file yourself. There are
usually two versions (same name ie "WinDjView.exe") if one
doesn't run/work try the other. The program consists of just
one exe, either version runs on my old WinNT system. If you
run the installer you will get a "Yandex" search bar too
that you really don't need or probably want. I'm sure you
know how to create your own program links :)
The DjvuLibre viewer is pretty good too, you can get it
here:
It can do some things that WinDjvu can't in manipulating and
saving pages to other formats.
--
Leon Fisk
Grand Rapids MI/Zone 5b
Remove no.spam for email
Steve Ackman
13:15:32 -0400, Leon Fisk, lf...@no.spam.iserv.net wrote:
[...]
> The DjvuLibre viewer is pretty good too, you can get it
> here:
>
> http://djvu.sourceforge.net/
>
> It can do some things that WinDjvu can't in manipulating and
> saving pages to other formats.
Evince is another djvu viewer (that happens to be
less than 1/3 the size of Djview4 (current djvulibre).
The package description:
Evince is a simple multi-page document viewer. It can display and print
PostScript (PS), Encapsulated PostScript (EPS), DJVU, DVI and Portable
Document Format (PDF) files.
When supported by the document, it also allows searching for text,
copying text to the clipboard, hypertext navigation, and
table-of-contents bookmarks.
--
☯☯
Jim Wilkins
> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 04:22:02 -0800 (PST), Jim Wilkins
> >"Hand or Simple Turning" and "Turning and Mechanical Manipulation"
> >together give the history of lathe development and the tools and
> >methods of originating screw threads.
> >http://www.archive.org/search.php?query=holtzapffel
> >I have dialup and can't download the full files here at home.
>
> >jsw
>
> Forgive me if you already know this...
>
> Along the left side of the page when you are looking at a
> book on the Archive.org website you will see a link for "All
> Files: HTTP". Example page:
> Leon Fisk
Thanks, but I downloaded all 4 plus a few others at my sister's on
Christmas. Even on Comcast the 50MB color PDFs were very slow so I
have the b/w ones, with white instead of yellowed pages. The small
text-only files were full of OCR errors.
I store downloads redundantly on several computers and USB drives, and
don't fuss with file types that require custom software. Installing
the software is less of an issue than researching it to be SURE it has
no adverse effects.
#1 gives the state of the art in metallurgy as of ~1850 and it's
surprisingly modern. They could analyze the carbon content of steel in
1/2 hour, about as quickly as the wet-chemical method I learned in the
1960's. Speed is important because the iron can't be poured until the
chemist blesses it.
Charles Holtzapffel understood that recrystallization to a different
form was the basis of hardening and suspected but couldn't prove
nitride hardening. Chemistry advanced quickly after Lavoisier
demonstrated that elements combine in small integer ratios. CH
conjectured that alloys behave similarly.
I like real books better than electronic ones too, but electronic
copies can be searched to find a reference to quote here. I tested it
on the .pdf page images with the Foxit reader.
jsw
The Dougster
> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:25:44 -0800 (PST), The Dougster
>
>
> >I still have the lost link problem. The site had pictures and
> >descriptions of hundreds of classic machine tools going back more than
> >100 years, and the owner did me a favor by putting in a new category
> >after Mills, Lathes, etc. It was Universal Machines. There were a
> >dozen or two, from benchtop to submarine to even larger models.
>
> This one?http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html
>
> --
> Ned Simmons
Huzzah!
I owe you a beverage, Ned.
From the page, with "Homemade Machines" now included:
COMBINATION MACHINES
Ames Triplex (USA)
Arboga UM400
Adcock & Shipley
Dalton (USA)
Dainichi
Hommel
Kitchen & Wade
Kneller
Labormil (Raglan based)
Leinweber
Metalmaster (Impetus)
Meyer & Burger (Astoba)
Murad Bormilathe
Piho (Germany)
Rindis
Ryder (Thomas Ryder)
Saacke (Germany)
Sacia
Scope
Siome Covema
UWG
HOME-BUILT LATHES
F'only
Elffers
Geslo
Greenly
Hooray!
Doug
Ned Simmons
<dgoncz.70...@gmail.com> wrote:
>On Dec 24, 8:38�pm, Ned Simmons <n...@nedsim.com> wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 Dec 2009 16:25:44 -0800 (PST), The Dougster
>>
>> <dgoncz.703.475.7...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >I still have the lost link problem. The site had pictures and
>> >descriptions of hundreds of classic machine tools going back more than
>> >100 years, and the owner did me a favor by putting in a new category
>> >after Mills, Lathes, etc. It was Universal Machines. There were a
>> >dozen or two, from benchtop to submarine to even larger models.
>>
>> This one?http://www.lathes.co.uk/page21.html
>>
>> --
>> Ned Simmons
>
>Huzzah!
>
>I owe you a beverage, Ned.
>
It'll have to be a warm one, at least for the next few months. <g>
Re your other post about synchros, the best summary of the various
flavors of this family of devices (synchros, selsysns, resolvers,
etc.) that I've seen is in Clifton Precision's 'Analog Components'
catalog. It seems Clifton is long gone, but you may be able to google
up a downloadable copy or a hardcopy on ebay. This is a reference to
it:
http://www-cdr.stanford.edu/MADEFAST/drawings.4-21/litton.html
If you can't find it and are really interested, I can make photocopies
of the relevant stuff from my copy.
--
Ned Simmons