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Re: Replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
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Bruce L. Bergman (munged human readable)
Jan 2, 2014, 7:52:02 PM1/2/14
to
On Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:47:50 -0800, Mikie <nom...@noplace.org> wrote:
>Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>such as with sensor lights?
>
>I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>(blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>designed to be constantly on to work.
>
>Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>nothing seem to last.
>
>m
Compact Fluorescent will not work with constant cycling because the
ballast electronics will blow out.
Normal fluorescent fixtures aren't much better - this is why you Do
Not Install a Motion Sensor in office spaces or restrooms without a
very long time-out period, because every start takes 15 minutes off
the lamp life. You save a bit of electricity and spend a lot more on
lamp changes and having the ballast replaced sooner than normal.
Now LED lamps might work, but again the driver electronics board is
the limiting factor. The LED itself might be good for 50K Hours, but
the electronics driving it blow up before then.
Best Bet is get the Halogena capsule lamp. That's about as good as
you're going to get.
>Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>such as with sensor lights?
>
>I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>(blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>designed to be constantly on to work.
>
>Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>nothing seem to last.
>
>m
Compact Fluorescent will not work with constant cycling because the
ballast electronics will blow out.
Normal fluorescent fixtures aren't much better - this is why you Do
Not Install a Motion Sensor in office spaces or restrooms without a
very long time-out period, because every start takes 15 minutes off
the lamp life. You save a bit of electricity and spend a lot more on
lamp changes and having the ballast replaced sooner than normal.
Now LED lamps might work, but again the driver electronics board is
the limiting factor. The LED itself might be good for 50K Hours, but
the electronics driving it blow up before then.
Best Bet is get the Halogena capsule lamp. That's about as good as
you're going to get.
Michael A. Terrell
Jan 2, 2014, 8:31:06 PM1/2/14
to
Mikie wrote:
>
> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
> such as with sensor lights?
>
> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
> designed to be constantly on to work.
>
> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
> nothing seem to last.
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Gunner Asch
Jan 2, 2014, 8:25:01 PM1/2/14
to
On Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:47:50 -0800, Mikie <nom...@noplace.org> wrote:
>Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>such as with sensor lights?
>
>I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>(blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>designed to be constantly on to work.
>
>Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>nothing seem to last.
>
>m
>Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>such as with sensor lights?
>
>I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>(blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>designed to be constantly on to work.
>
>Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>nothing seem to last.
>
You want industrial bulbs. They have a thicker element and a longer
life span
--
"Owning a sailboat is like marrying a nymphomaniac. You don�t want to do that
but it is great if your best friend does. That way you get all the benefits without any of the upkeep"
---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com
Larry Jaques
Jan 2, 2014, 11:15:04 PM1/2/14
to
On Thu, 02 Jan 2014 15:47:50 -0800, Mikie <nom...@noplace.org> wrote:
>Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>such as with sensor lights?
Do you need bulbs for motion detector lights?
>Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>such as with sensor lights?
>I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>(blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>designed to be constantly on to work.
>
>Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>nothing seem to last.
forever. I just replaced my last one in the laundry room last month
and it had been there when I moved here in Feb of 2002. I hate the
new 2-second delay from the CFL. _That_ ain't stayin' fer long.
I've had more trouble with Feit brand bulbs than any other, both in
CFL and incan, so be aware.
--
Stay centered by accepting whatever you are doing.
This is the ultimate. -- Chuang-tzu
pyotr filipivich
Jan 3, 2014, 1:42:16 AM1/3/14
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Thu, 02 Jan 2014
20:31:06 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
20:31:06 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>Mikie wrote:
>>
>> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>> such as with sensor lights?
>>
>> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>> designed to be constantly on to work.
>>
>> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>> nothing seem to last.
>
> Buy 130 volt bulbs.
Stock up - there ain't no more legally in the US.
>Mikie wrote:
>>
>> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>> such as with sensor lights?
>>
>> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>> designed to be constantly on to work.
>>
>> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>> nothing seem to last.
>
> Buy 130 volt bulbs.
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
Erik
Jan 3, 2014, 3:19:35 AM1/3/14
to
such applications.
LED's do very well with on/off cycles. As a matter of fact, strobing
them via PWM (Pulse With Modulation) is the normal method of dimming...
they're good for many, many millions if not many billions of cycles.
They also do well in cold temperatures, even illuminating 'slightly
brighter' as the mercury drops. They also come on instantly with zero
warm up time.
The fly in the ointment may their integral supporting circuitry... much
the same deal with CFL... the actual LED's are dependent on said circuitry.
Check these:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_lamp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LED_street_light
Erik
Michael A. Terrell
Jan 3, 2014, 10:39:30 AM1/3/14
to
pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Thu, 02 Jan 2014
> 20:31:06 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
> >
> >Mikie wrote:
> >>
> >> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
> >> such as with sensor lights?
> >>
> >> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
> >> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
> >> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
> >> designed to be constantly on to work.
> >>
> >> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
> >> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
> >> nothing seem to last.
> >
> > Buy 130 volt bulbs.
>
> Stock up - there ain't no more legally in the US.
Cydrome Leader
Jan 3, 2014, 2:32:52 PM1/3/14
to
Mikie <nom...@noplace.org> wrote:
> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
> such as with sensor lights?
>
> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
> designed to be constantly on to work.
>
> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
> nothing seem to last.
get some rough service bulbs, of better yet traffic signal bulbs.
> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
> such as with sensor lights?
>
> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
> designed to be constantly on to work.
>
> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
> nothing seem to last.
they run seem to run dimmer and cooler (filament temp) and don't burn out
as fast.
Pete C.
Jan 3, 2014, 2:36:09 PM1/3/14
to
Mikie wrote:
>
> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
> such as with sensor lights?
>
> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
> designed to be constantly on to work.
>
> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
> nothing seem to last.
>
Bite the bullet and replace the entire fixtures with new LED based
motion floodlights. You'll save money in the long run from both power
savings and no lamp replacement labor. I don't recommend putting LED
lamps in the existing fixtures.
spamT...@yahoo.com
Jan 3, 2014, 6:18:04 PM1/3/14
to
pyotr filipivich
Jan 3, 2014, 8:08:48 PM1/3/14
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Thu, 02 Jan 2014
20:31:06 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
20:31:06 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>Mikie wrote:
>>
>> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>> such as with sensor lights?
>>
>> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>> designed to be constantly on to work.
>>
>> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>> nothing seem to last.
>
> Buy 130 volt bulbs.
Or check you local liquidator establishments. Local one has 120
>>
>> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>> such as with sensor lights?
>>
>> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>> designed to be constantly on to work.
>>
>> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>> nothing seem to last.
>
> Buy 130 volt bulbs.
60w bulbs ~$20. I'll go back next week for on Senior Discount Day.
Erik
Jan 3, 2014, 8:54:36 PM1/3/14
to
>>> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>>> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>>> nothing seem to last.
Erik
Michael A. Terrell
Jan 3, 2014, 9:39:34 PM1/3/14
to
pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > Buy 130 volt bulbs.
>
> Or check you local liquidator establishments. Local one has 120
> 60w bulbs ~$20. I'll go back next week for on Senior Discount Day.
Splurge, and buy 240 so you can sell some later on. :)
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> > Buy 130 volt bulbs.
>
> Or check you local liquidator establishments. Local one has 120
> 60w bulbs ~$20. I'll go back next week for on Senior Discount Day.
Message has been deleted
Ecnerwal
Jan 6, 2014, 11:33:37 PM1/6/14
to
In article <mutbc9h0m05goovt3...@4ax.com>,
electronics and all. Very nice since they come on full brightness at any
temperature and don't burn out or vibrate to death.
Check out the RAB L-Pack lights. Guaranteed for 5 years (since you can
buy them with the motion sensor installed as part of the unit,
motion-sensing use is clearly supported as part of that.) If you happen
to get a bad one, they are a solid American company that will be around
to replace it, and will. Of course, you have to pay American prices...
Just a happy customer.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
Mikie <nom...@noplace.org> wrote:
> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
> such as with sensor lights?
If you avoid the bargain-basement Chinese crap, LEDs are already there,
> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
> such as with sensor lights?
electronics and all. Very nice since they come on full brightness at any
temperature and don't burn out or vibrate to death.
Check out the RAB L-Pack lights. Guaranteed for 5 years (since you can
buy them with the motion sensor installed as part of the unit,
motion-sensing use is clearly supported as part of that.) If you happen
to get a bad one, they are a solid American company that will be around
to replace it, and will. Of course, you have to pay American prices...
Just a happy customer.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
Martin Eastburn
Jan 6, 2014, 11:49:46 PM1/6/14
to
LED's are good if you don't drive them anywhere near the max.
Half wave AC for a normal bulb is dimmer but is a 50% duty with only a
diode and the existing lamp.
One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
Higher voltage - more wattage for the same current and the same line wire.
constantly upping the voltage.
Martin
Half wave AC for a normal bulb is dimmer but is a 50% duty with only a
diode and the existing lamp.
One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
Higher voltage - more wattage for the same current and the same line wire.
constantly upping the voltage.
Martin
Ecnerwal
Jan 7, 2014, 9:05:12 AM1/7/14
to
In article <KHLyu.19802$JT6....@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com>,
wires, it's a smart beast.) I've tested mine on 120 and 240 (no 3-phase
handy out in the boonies, so no 277 handy...)
Driver:
Automatic Voltage Sensing Driver for 120 � 277 volts
Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
> is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
> legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
The L-Pack is rated for operation up to 277 VAC (no need to change
> One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
> is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
> legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
wires, it's a smart beast.) I've tested mine on 120 and 240 (no 3-phase
handy out in the boonies, so no 277 handy...)
Driver:
Automatic Voltage Sensing Driver for 120 � 277 volts
Michael A. Terrell
Jan 7, 2014, 10:11:27 AM1/7/14
to
Ecnerwal wrote:
>
> In article <KHLyu.19802$JT6....@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com>,
> Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> > One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
> > is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
> > legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
>
> The L-Pack is rated for operation up to 277 VAC (no need to change
> wires, it's a smart beast.) I've tested mine on 120 and 240 (no 3-phase
> handy out in the boonies, so no 277 handy...)
>
> Driver:
> Automatic Voltage Sensing Driver for 120 � 277 volts
wave, and have a dead band. If you try to operate in that dead band,
you'll blow it up.
Message has been deleted
Larry Jaques
Jan 7, 2014, 9:20:37 PM1/7/14
to
On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 16:29:03 -0800, Mikie <nom...@noplace.org> wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 09:05:12 -0500, Ecnerwal
><MyName...@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>In article <KHLyu.19802$JT6....@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com>,
>> Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
>>> One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
>>> is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
>>> legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
>>
>>The L-Pack is rated for operation up to 277 VAC (no need to change
>>wires, it's a smart beast.) I've tested mine on 120 and 240 (no 3-phase
>>handy out in the boonies, so no 277 handy...)
>>
>>Driver:
>>Automatic Voltage Sensing Driver for 120 � 277 volts
>
>
>Did some google and checked Amazon - did not find this item.
>
>Do you have a link?
>
>Approximate cost?
>
>
>Found these:
>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>
>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 09:05:12 -0500, Ecnerwal
><MyName...@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>
>>In article <KHLyu.19802$JT6....@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com>,
>> Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
>>> One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
>>> is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
>>> legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
>>
>>The L-Pack is rated for operation up to 277 VAC (no need to change
>>wires, it's a smart beast.) I've tested mine on 120 and 240 (no 3-phase
>>handy out in the boonies, so no 277 handy...)
>>
>>Driver:
>>Automatic Voltage Sensing Driver for 120 � 277 volts
>
>
>
>Do you have a link?
>
>Approximate cost?
>
>
>Found these:
>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>
>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
Ecnerwal
Jan 7, 2014, 10:27:51 PM1/7/14
to
In article <dl6pc91ssn3r3shms...@4ax.com>,
http://www.rabweb.com/productLines.php?majorGroup=LPACK
Evidently the motion sensor only does 120V, so if the higher voltage
drive is important to you, get the cheaper version without the sensor
(use a separate sensor and a relay if you like)
> Approximate cost?
Depends on version, but around $200 for the 20W. Motion sensor adds.
List is considerably more...
http://www.elights.com/rabwpled20mss.html
http://www.amazon.com/RAB-WPLED26MSS-Wallpack-Surface-Sensor/dp/B00CJNM9G
Y
Or there's this 18W motion/flood in the same ballpark (thus cheaper if
you want the sensor)
http://www.amazon.com/RAB-FFLED18MS-Security-Motion-Sensor/dp/B008I3ROSM
Mikie <nom...@noplace.org> wrote:
> On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 09:05:12 -0500, Ecnerwal
> <MyName...@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>
> On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 09:05:12 -0500, Ecnerwal
> <MyName...@ReplaceWithMyVices.Com.invalid> wrote:
>
> >In article <KHLyu.19802$JT6....@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com>,
> > Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> >> One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
> >> is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
> >> legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
> >
> >The L-Pack is rated for operation up to 277 VAC (no need to change
> >wires, it's a smart beast.) I've tested mine on 120 and 240 (no 3-phase
> >handy out in the boonies, so no 277 handy...)
> >
> >Driver:
> >Automatic Voltage Sensing Driver for 120 � 277 volts
>
>
> > Martin Eastburn <lion...@consolidated.net> wrote:
> >> One problem is the bulbs are rated for 120v or 115. Electric power
> >> is now running 145v here. Just had my transformer replaced and both
> >> legs were over 140, slightly out of balance.
> >
> >The L-Pack is rated for operation up to 277 VAC (no need to change
> >wires, it's a smart beast.) I've tested mine on 120 and 240 (no 3-phase
> >handy out in the boonies, so no 277 handy...)
> >
> >Driver:
> >Automatic Voltage Sensing Driver for 120 � 277 volts
>
>
> Did some google and checked Amazon - did not find this item.
Really?
http://www.rabweb.com/productLines.php?majorGroup=LPACK
Evidently the motion sensor only does 120V, so if the higher voltage
drive is important to you, get the cheaper version without the sensor
(use a separate sensor and a relay if you like)
> Approximate cost?
Depends on version, but around $200 for the 20W. Motion sensor adds.
List is considerably more...
http://www.elights.com/rabwpled20mss.html
http://www.amazon.com/RAB-WPLED26MSS-Wallpack-Surface-Sensor/dp/B00CJNM9G
Y
Or there's this 18W motion/flood in the same ballpark (thus cheaper if
you want the sensor)
http://www.amazon.com/RAB-FFLED18MS-Security-Motion-Sensor/dp/B008I3ROSM
Gunner Asch
Jan 8, 2014, 12:36:38 AM1/8/14
to
On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:20:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Found these:
>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>
>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>
>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>
>>Found these:
>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>
>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>
>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
__
"Anyone who things Obama is doing a good job
is either stupid or a perpetual societal leech"
pyotr filipivich
Jan 8, 2014, 2:21:07 AM1/8/14
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:36:38 -0800
geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:20:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>Found these:
>>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>>
>>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>>
>>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>
>No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>Found these:
>>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>>
>>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>>
>>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>
>No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jan 8, 2014, 6:44:03 AM1/8/14
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
news:h8dpc95hsgi9u00a9...@4ax.com:
> They don't give those
> away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
> of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
> an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>
>
It's not illegal to sell incandescents, and it's not even illegal to sell
60W and 40W regular medium-base regular lighting lamps, which are the
only ones presently restricted. They cannot be manufactured or imported
for sale anymore, and distributors and stores have a future cutoff date
for sales of regular lighting lamps. Specialty bulbs are not
discriminated against.
Let me ask you -- WHICH CFL or LED lamp will you be putting in your oven
light fixture tonight? Will you still make pizza after that?
LLoyd
news:h8dpc95hsgi9u00a9...@4ax.com:
> They don't give those
> away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
> of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
> an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>
>
60W and 40W regular medium-base regular lighting lamps, which are the
only ones presently restricted. They cannot be manufactured or imported
for sale anymore, and distributors and stores have a future cutoff date
for sales of regular lighting lamps. Specialty bulbs are not
discriminated against.
Let me ask you -- WHICH CFL or LED lamp will you be putting in your oven
light fixture tonight? Will you still make pizza after that?
LLoyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jan 8, 2014, 6:54:22 AM1/8/14
to
Mikie <nom...@noplace.org> fired this volley in
news:dl6pc91ssn3r3shms...@4ax.com:
resistor in series with each socket? That'll increase the life of the
bulbs four or five fold.
Here's a description of them:
http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/ametherm/Ametherm_PPT_FEB07
_REV6DistyTutorial.pdf
LLoyd
news:dl6pc91ssn3r3shms...@4ax.com:
>
> Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>
>
Why don't you just put a negative-temperature-coefficient inrush limiter
> Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>
>
resistor in series with each socket? That'll increase the life of the
bulbs four or five fold.
Here's a description of them:
http://www.newark.com/pdfs/techarticles/ametherm/Ametherm_PPT_FEB07
_REV6DistyTutorial.pdf
LLoyd
Larry Jaques
Jan 8, 2014, 9:52:56 AM1/8/14
to
On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:36:38 -0800, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:20:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>Found these:
>>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>>
>>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>>
>>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>
>No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
I thought the Libruls got rid of the inefficient, heat-causing incans
altogether. GlobularSwarming 'n all that, y'know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#United_States
You're right: general-service only. Thanks.
wrote:
>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:20:37 -0800, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>>
>>>
>>>Found these:
>>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>>
>>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>>
>>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>
>No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
altogether. GlobularSwarming 'n all that, y'know.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#United_States
You're right: general-service only. Thanks.
Larry Jaques
Jan 8, 2014, 9:55:31 AM1/8/14
to
You'll pay -only- $400 or so per year for the privilege.
Millions of bright Americans do it, so you can't go wrong. <giggle>
Larry Jaques
Jan 8, 2014, 9:59:47 AM1/8/14
to
On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 05:44:03 -0600, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
>news:h8dpc95hsgi9u00a9...@4ax.com:
>
>> They don't give those
>> away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>> of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>> an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>>
>>
>
>It's not illegal to sell incandescents, and it's not even illegal to sell
>60W and 40W regular medium-base regular lighting lamps, which are the
>only ones presently restricted. They cannot be manufactured or imported
>for sale anymore, and distributors and stores have a future cutoff date
>for sales of regular lighting lamps. Specialty bulbs are not
>discriminated against.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Phase-out_of_incandescent_light_bulbs#United_States
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
>news:h8dpc95hsgi9u00a9...@4ax.com:
>
>> They don't give those
>> away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>> of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>> an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>>
>>
>
>It's not illegal to sell incandescents, and it's not even illegal to sell
>60W and 40W regular medium-base regular lighting lamps, which are the
>only ones presently restricted. They cannot be manufactured or imported
>for sale anymore, and distributors and stores have a future cutoff date
>for sales of regular lighting lamps. Specialty bulbs are not
>discriminated against.
The update.
>Let me ask you -- WHICH CFL or LED lamp will you be putting in your oven
>light fixture tonight?
want to smell a CFL or LED in that position, please.
>Will you still make pizza after that?
Larry Jaques
Jan 8, 2014, 10:05:22 AM1/8/14
to
fit between the light bulb and socket. I'm not sure I remember any
extended lifetimes as a result, but I used some for awhile. <shrug>
Michael A. Terrell
Jan 8, 2014, 11:35:47 AM1/8/14
to
have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
pyotr filipivich
Jan 9, 2014, 12:40:32 AM1/9/14
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Wed, 08 Jan 2014
11:35:47 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
the bed up on blocks ... and I've a cat who hides down in the "gaps".
11:35:47 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:36:38 -0800
>> typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>> Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:36:38 -0800
>> typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>> >On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:20:37 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>> >>>Found these:
>> >>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>> >>>
>> >>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>> >>
>> >>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>> >>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>> >>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>> >>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>> >>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>> >
>> >No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
>>
>> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>> geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>
> Hide them under your bed. If you hide enough stuff there, you won't
>have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
I already have a bunch of stuff under there. I'm already putting
>> >>>Found these:
>> >>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>> >>>
>> >>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>> >>
>> >>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>> >>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>> >>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>> >>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>> >>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>> >
>> >No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
>>
>> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>> geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>
> Hide them under your bed. If you hide enough stuff there, you won't
>have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
the bed up on blocks ... and I've a cat who hides down in the "gaps".
pyotr filipivich
Jan 9, 2014, 12:40:32 AM1/9/14
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> on Wed, 08 Jan 2014
06:55:31 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
cheaper. It was buy a house or hold a rummage sale.
06:55:31 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 23:21:07 -0800, pyotr filipivich
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:36:38 -0800
>>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:36:38 -0800
>>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:20:37 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>Found these:
>>>>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>>>>
>>>>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>>>>
>>>>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>>>>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>>>>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>>>>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>>>>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>>>
>>>No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
>>
>> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>>geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>
>In a nice, cost-efficient rental storage space, of course, Pete.
>You'll pay -only- $400 or so per year for the privilege.
>Millions of bright Americans do it, so you can't go wrong. <giggle>
I had a storage unit for a while. I bought a house, it was
>>>>>Found these:
>>>>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>>>>
>>>>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>>>>
>>>>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>>>>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>>>>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>>>>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>>>>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>>>
>>>No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
>>
>> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>>geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>
>In a nice, cost-efficient rental storage space, of course, Pete.
>You'll pay -only- $400 or so per year for the privilege.
>Millions of bright Americans do it, so you can't go wrong. <giggle>
cheaper. It was buy a house or hold a rummage sale.
Michael A. Terrell
Jan 9, 2014, 1:26:12 AM1/9/14
to
pyotr filipivich wrote:
>
> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
> >
> >pyotr filipivich wrote:
> >>
> >> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
> >> geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
> >
> > Hide them under your bed. If you hide enough stuff there, you
> > won't have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
>
> I already have a bunch of stuff under there. I'm already putting
> the bed up on blocks ... and I've a cat who hides down in the "gaps".
I'm thinking about building a 'Captain's Bed' type base to hold my
> >>
> >> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
> >> geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
> >
> > Hide them under your bed. If you hide enough stuff there, you
> > won't have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
>
> I already have a bunch of stuff under there. I'm already putting
> the bed up on blocks ... and I've a cat who hides down in the "gaps".
hospital bed. The cables that adjust the height are broken, and it sits
too low to make it easy to stand up, when getting up.
123glaz...@gmail.com
Jan 9, 2014, 8:07:59 AM1/9/14
to
On Thursday, January 2, 2014 6:47:50 PM UTC-5, Mikie wrote:
> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>
> such as with sensor lights?
>
>
>
> Has anybody found a useful replacement bulb for constant on off cycles
>
> such as with sensor lights?
>
>
>
> I bought about 10 for $1 ea about a year ago that should last forever
>
> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>
> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>
> designed to be constantly on to work.
>
>
>
>
> (blah blah) - power co subsidized.
>
> They all burned out in one or two weeks since they were apparently
>
> designed to be constantly on to work.
>
>
>
> Did some google and Bing and found nothing.
>
> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>
> nothing seem to last.
>
>
>
> m
>
> I do have a small supply of old regular bulbs - but with rentals or condos
>
> nothing seem to last.
>
>
>
Larry Jaques
Jan 9, 2014, 8:45:53 AM1/9/14
to
On Wed, 08 Jan 2014 21:40:32 -0800, pyotr filipivich
I've always thought home ownership was the far better option, too. The
first was rent-to-own. Pre-Prop-13 homes in CA were dirt cheap. Mine
was $23,100 in '76.
>It was buy a house or hold a rummage sale.
Be daring: try doing BOTH! I'm lighter better than $2,300 worth from
last year's sales, and it's easier and nicer to carry that kind of
weight in my wallet, knowwhatImean,Vern?
<ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> on Wed, 08 Jan 2014
>06:55:31 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 23:21:07 -0800, pyotr filipivich
>><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:36:38 -0800
>>>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:20:37 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>>Found these:
>>>>>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>>>>>
>>>>>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>>>>>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>>>>>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>>>>>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>>>>>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>>>>
>>>>No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
>>>
>>> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>>>geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>>
>>In a nice, cost-efficient rental storage space, of course, Pete.
>>You'll pay -only- $400 or so per year for the privilege.
>>Millions of bright Americans do it, so you can't go wrong. <giggle>
>
> I had a storage unit for a while. I bought a house, it was
>cheaper.
Har!
>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> on Wed, 08 Jan 2014
>06:55:31 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 23:21:07 -0800, pyotr filipivich
>><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>>>Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> on Tue, 07 Jan 2014 21:36:38 -0800
>>>typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>>On Tue, 07 Jan 2014 18:20:37 -0800, Larry Jaques wrote:
>>>>>>Found these:
>>>>>>http://www.bulborama.com/Traffic-Signal-Light-Bulbs-c41/
>>>>>>
>>>>>>Wonder if they will fit standard sockets?
>>>>>
>>>>>Looking at the first one, the 60W bulb, it says "medium base", which
>>>>>is our standard E26 socket, so they should fit. They don't give those
>>>>>away, do they? OBTW, those are illegal to sell in the USA today, as
>>>>>of Jan 1, 2014. No more incans. I wonder if city/state gov'ts have
>>>>>an exclusion, as they do for every farkin' thing else.
>>>>
>>>>No more regular duty incans. Rough duty are still very much allowed.
>>>
>>> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>>>geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>>
>>In a nice, cost-efficient rental storage space, of course, Pete.
>>You'll pay -only- $400 or so per year for the privilege.
>>Millions of bright Americans do it, so you can't go wrong. <giggle>
>
> I had a storage unit for a while. I bought a house, it was
>cheaper.
I've always thought home ownership was the far better option, too. The
first was rent-to-own. Pre-Prop-13 homes in CA were dirt cheap. Mine
was $23,100 in '76.
>It was buy a house or hold a rummage sale.
last year's sales, and it's easier and nicer to carry that kind of
weight in my wallet, knowwhatImean,Vern?
Ned Simmons
Jan 9, 2014, 1:58:35 PM1/9/14
to
resistance of the limiter reducing the lamp's operating voltage, i.e,
a plain resistor would do much the same thing.
--
Ned Simmons
Jim Wilkins
Jan 9, 2014, 2:59:23 PM1/9/14
to
"Ned Simmons" <ne...@nedsim.com> wrote in message
news:o1stc91k3kannhuvb...@4ax.com...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current_limiter
The cause of the high inrush:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb
"The cold resistance of tungsten-filament lamps is about 1/15 the
hot-filament resistance when the lamp is operating."
jsw
news:o1stc91k3kannhuvb...@4ax.com...
The cause of the high inrush:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb
"The cold resistance of tungsten-filament lamps is about 1/15 the
hot-filament resistance when the lamp is operating."
jsw
Jim Wilkins
Jan 9, 2014, 5:15:52 PM1/9/14
to
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:lamv2n$fek$1...@dont-email.me...
>> How so? Any significant increase in life would only be due to the
>> hot
>> resistance of the limiter reducing the lamp's operating voltage,
>> i.e,
>> a plain resistor would do much the same thing.
>>
>> --
>> Ned Simmons
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current_limiter
>
> The cause of the high inrush:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb
> "The cold resistance of tungsten-filament lamps is about 1/15 the
> hot-filament resistance when the lamp is operating."
>
> jsw
Bob Engelhardt sent me an email questioning this. My understanding is
>> hot
>> resistance of the limiter reducing the lamp's operating voltage,
>> i.e,
>> a plain resistor would do much the same thing.
>>
>> --
>> Ned Simmons
>
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inrush_current_limiter
>
> The cause of the high inrush:
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb
> "The cold resistance of tungsten-filament lamps is about 1/15 the
> hot-filament resistance when the lamp is operating."
>
> jsw
that the filament thins unevenly as it ages, recrystallizes and
evaporates. Thin areas become localized hot spots at startup.
jsw
Ned Simmons
Jan 9, 2014, 5:24:12 PM1/9/14
to
thinning of the filament, which leads to hot spots which increase the
evaproation in the thinned area, and so on. If the surge at turn-on
kills a lamp, it was likely very close to end of life anyway.
That Wikipedia article discusses evaporation.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb#Reducing_filament_evaporation
I spent several years working on filament winding equipment and
tooling for expensive low-volume lamps, and dinging or otherwise
thinning the wire was a big no-no.
--
Ned Simmons
Ned Simmons
Jan 9, 2014, 5:42:47 PM1/9/14
to
that both are a result of the operating temperature of the filament.
The sintered tungsten bars that are the starting point for the swaging
and wire drawing operations are comprised of very large crystals. If
you break a TIG electrode you can see the wood-like grain that results
when the big grains are distorted and stretched in
swaging/rolling/drawing the material. Those big crystals are formed in
a relatively short time in sintering, on the order of an hour or two.
The bars are sintered by passing a huge current thru them in a
hydrogen atmosphere - the sintering temperature is not too different
from the operating temp of a lamp filament, around 2600C, IIRC.
Imagine a light bulb with a solid filament as big around as your thumb
and 2 feet long.
I'm sure the recrystallization of a normal filament happens very
quickly as well.
--
Ned Simmons
Jim Wilkins
Jan 9, 2014, 6:35:53 PM1/9/14
to
"Ned Simmons" <ne...@nedsim.com> wrote in message
news:jc8uc9tevvh0sr733...@4ax.com...
with a hammer in the few seconds it takes me to realize I didn't
reopen the cylinder valve after taking a break.
jsw
Ned Simmons
Jan 9, 2014, 6:55:39 PM1/9/14
to
On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 18:35:53 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
of the bar because they're held in water cooled contacts. So the ends
are discarded because they aren't as dense as the rest. My customer
approached me once to build a tool to snap the ends off instead of
whacking them with a hammer as they'd been doing for 50 years. I never
did do it, I think because I convinced them it would be the civilian
equivalent of an $800 hammer.
--
Ned Simmons
<murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>"Ned Simmons" <ne...@nedsim.com> wrote in message
>news:jc8uc9tevvh0sr733...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:15:52 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure the recrystallization of a normal filament happens very
>> quickly as well.
>>
>> --
>> Ned Simmons
>
>A TIG electrode tip can become brittle enough to knock off cleanly
>with a hammer in the few seconds it takes me to realize I didn't
>reopen the cylinder valve after taking a break.
>jsw
>
The extreme ends of the sintered ingots don't get as hot as the rest
>"Ned Simmons" <ne...@nedsim.com> wrote in message
>news:jc8uc9tevvh0sr733...@4ax.com...
>> On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 17:15:52 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
>> <murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> I'm sure the recrystallization of a normal filament happens very
>> quickly as well.
>>
>> --
>> Ned Simmons
>
>A TIG electrode tip can become brittle enough to knock off cleanly
>with a hammer in the few seconds it takes me to realize I didn't
>reopen the cylinder valve after taking a break.
>jsw
>
of the bar because they're held in water cooled contacts. So the ends
are discarded because they aren't as dense as the rest. My customer
approached me once to build a tool to snap the ends off instead of
whacking them with a hammer as they'd been doing for 50 years. I never
did do it, I think because I convinced them it would be the civilian
equivalent of an $800 hammer.
--
Ned Simmons
Bob Engelhardt
Jan 9, 2014, 6:58:55 PM1/9/14
to
On 1/9/2014 5:15 PM, Jim Wilkins wrote:
> Bob Engelhardt sent me an email questioning this. ...\
Oh ... I wondered why that wasn't on RCM. Thunderbird changed its user
interface and "Reply" now means "to the sender", whereas "Followup"
means to the group.
Anyhow, here's the reply that I meant to post:
I think Ned is saying "How so would limiting the inrush current prolong
lamp life?" If so, I agree. The current doesn't matter - what matters
is the filament temperature. You only have inrush because the filament
is cold, if the filament is cold its life is not being shortened. As
the filament heats up, the current goes down.
Unless the temperature overshoots because of inrush, but I never seen a
claim for that. I suppose that it's possible due to the lag between
current and temperature (it takes a finite amount of time(?) for the
temperature (& resistance) to increase after a current increase). This
should be easily modeled, but not easy for me.
I suppose that really high currents could have damaging effects from
magnetic forces, but that's also something that I've never heard
claimed, nor that I can explain.
Bob
> Bob Engelhardt sent me an email questioning this. ...\
Oh ... I wondered why that wasn't on RCM. Thunderbird changed its user
interface and "Reply" now means "to the sender", whereas "Followup"
means to the group.
Anyhow, here's the reply that I meant to post:
I think Ned is saying "How so would limiting the inrush current prolong
lamp life?" If so, I agree. The current doesn't matter - what matters
is the filament temperature. You only have inrush because the filament
is cold, if the filament is cold its life is not being shortened. As
the filament heats up, the current goes down.
Unless the temperature overshoots because of inrush, but I never seen a
claim for that. I suppose that it's possible due to the lag between
current and temperature (it takes a finite amount of time(?) for the
temperature (& resistance) to increase after a current increase). This
should be easily modeled, but not easy for me.
I suppose that really high currents could have damaging effects from
magnetic forces, but that's also something that I've never heard
claimed, nor that I can explain.
Bob
DoN. Nichols
Jan 9, 2014, 11:50:44 PM1/9/14
to
On 2014-01-09, Ned Simmons <ne...@nedsim.com> wrote:
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:59:23 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
><murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Ned Simmons" <ne...@nedsim.com> wrote in message
>>news:o1stc91k3kannhuvb...@4ax.com...
[ ... ]
> On Thu, 9 Jan 2014 14:59:23 -0500, "Jim Wilkins"
><murat...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>>"Ned Simmons" <ne...@nedsim.com> wrote in message
>>news:o1stc91k3kannhuvb...@4ax.com...
>>> How so? Any significant increase in life would only be due to the
>>> hot
>>> resistance of the limiter reducing the lamp's operating voltage,
>>> i.e,
>>> a plain resistor would do much the same thing.
> But incandescents' life is limited by evaporation of the tungsten and
> thinning of the filament, which leads to hot spots which increase the
> evaproation in the thinned area, and so on. If the surge at turn-on
> kills a lamp, it was likely very close to end of life anyway.
>
> That Wikipedia article discusses evaporation.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Incandescent_light_bulb#Reducing_filament_evaporation
is to bump it while it is running. This joggles the hot filament,
causing two adjacent loops to contact each other and weld together,
causing the overall resistance to be lower, and thus the current to be
higher, and thus evaporate the filament much more rapidly.
What is it -- bulb life is something like the inverse of the
fourth power of the applied voltage? Short out part of the filament and
you have the equivalent of higher voltage.
O.K. Worse, based on this site:
<http://www.zap-tek.com/webpage/Elect/lsn_4/014_lamp_res.html>
expected-life = ( (nominal-voltage/applied-voltage)^13.1)*1000
> I spent several years working on filament winding equipment and
> tooling for expensive low-volume lamps, and dinging or otherwise
> thinning the wire was a big no-no.
Enjoy,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | (KV4PH) Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
pyotr filipivich
Jan 10, 2014, 12:38:57 AM1/10/14
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Thu, 09 Jan 2014
01:26:12 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Bunk and "Dutch Cupboard" sleeping space for years. Have many sketch
in many notebooks.
01:26:12 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>> >pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> >> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>> >> geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>> >
>> > Hide them under your bed. If you hide enough stuff there, you
>> > won't have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
>>
>> I already have a bunch of stuff under there. I'm already putting
>> the bed up on blocks ... and I've a cat who hides down in the "gaps".
>
> I'm thinking about building a 'Captain's Bed' type base to hold my
>hospital bed.
Cool. I've been thinking about building a combination Captain's
>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>> >pyotr filipivich wrote:
>> >> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>> >> geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>> >
>> > Hide them under your bed. If you hide enough stuff there, you
>> > won't have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
>>
>> I already have a bunch of stuff under there. I'm already putting
>> the bed up on blocks ... and I've a cat who hides down in the "gaps".
>
> I'm thinking about building a 'Captain's Bed' type base to hold my
>hospital bed.
Bunk and "Dutch Cupboard" sleeping space for years. Have many sketch
in many notebooks.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jan 10, 2014, 7:11:26 AM1/10/14
to
Ned Simmons <ne...@nedsim.com> fired this volley in
news:o1stc91k3kannhuvb...@4ax.com:
> How so? Any significant increase in life would only be due to the hot
> resistance of the limiter reducing the lamp's operating voltage, i.e,
> a plain resistor would do much the same thing.
You don't read, do you, Ned?
NTC! Not PTC! Geesh!
news:o1stc91k3kannhuvb...@4ax.com:
> How so? Any significant increase in life would only be due to the hot
> resistance of the limiter reducing the lamp's operating voltage, i.e,
> a plain resistor would do much the same thing.
NTC! Not PTC! Geesh!
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jan 10, 2014, 7:13:06 AM1/10/14
to
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> fired this volley in news:lan72l$127
$1...@dont-email.me:
> Bob Engelhardt sent me an email questioning this. My understanding is
> that the filament thins unevenly as it ages, recrystallizes and
> evaporates. Thin areas become localized hot spots at startup.
> jsw
>
Yes, and that's how Halogen-Cycle bulbs last so long. The tungsten is
caused to re-condense ON the filament, rather than inside the globe. It
still does so somewhat unevenly, so they eventually burn out... and
almost always at cold inrush time.
LLoyd
$1...@dont-email.me:
> Bob Engelhardt sent me an email questioning this. My understanding is
> that the filament thins unevenly as it ages, recrystallizes and
> evaporates. Thin areas become localized hot spots at startup.
> jsw
>
caused to re-condense ON the filament, rather than inside the globe. It
still does so somewhat unevenly, so they eventually burn out... and
almost always at cold inrush time.
LLoyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jan 10, 2014, 7:22:58 AM1/10/14
to
Bob Engelhardt <BobEng...@comcast.net> fired this volley in
news:land3...@news1.newsguy.com:
>
> Unless the temperature overshoots because of inrush, but I never seen a
> claim for that. I suppose that it's possible due to the lag between
> current and temperature (it takes a finite amount of time(?) for the
> temperature (& resistance) to increase after a current increase). This
> should be easily modeled, but not easy for me.
>
No, Bob. Thin spots (like at the crimps, and where it's thinned with
age) get hotter than the rest, and more quickly (the real key), so that
those hot-spot's resistance increases more quickly than the rest of the
filament.
That causes the thin spots to sort of 'run away' thermally, dissipating
more and more share of the total power until they open. If you can heat
the filament more slowly, you can minimize that effect.
My only commercial experience with this is with the small incandescent
lamps used in old DEC and DataGeneral computer front panels. We were
_forever_ replacing lamps in those darned things until one guy in the
shop came up with the idea of putting an NTC in series with each lamp
(labor being more expensive than the lamps or the NTC gumdrops).
Since those bulbs were constantly being switched on and off, that was a
good solution. It extended the average life by about 3X in that
application, without any significant reduction in brightness (at static-
state full-on). They were quite a bit dimmer in the 'run' state, but
also meaningless in Run, so that wasn't a problem.
Lloyd
news:land3...@news1.newsguy.com:
>
> Unless the temperature overshoots because of inrush, but I never seen a
> claim for that. I suppose that it's possible due to the lag between
> current and temperature (it takes a finite amount of time(?) for the
> temperature (& resistance) to increase after a current increase). This
> should be easily modeled, but not easy for me.
>
age) get hotter than the rest, and more quickly (the real key), so that
those hot-spot's resistance increases more quickly than the rest of the
filament.
That causes the thin spots to sort of 'run away' thermally, dissipating
more and more share of the total power until they open. If you can heat
the filament more slowly, you can minimize that effect.
My only commercial experience with this is with the small incandescent
lamps used in old DEC and DataGeneral computer front panels. We were
_forever_ replacing lamps in those darned things until one guy in the
shop came up with the idea of putting an NTC in series with each lamp
(labor being more expensive than the lamps or the NTC gumdrops).
Since those bulbs were constantly being switched on and off, that was a
good solution. It extended the average life by about 3X in that
application, without any significant reduction in brightness (at static-
state full-on). They were quite a bit dimmer in the 'run' state, but
also meaningless in Run, so that wasn't a problem.
Lloyd
Jim Wilkins
Jan 10, 2014, 9:02:33 AM1/10/14
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA2B1494396B2ll...@216.168.3.70...
An NTC has to drop some voltage to heat up and maintain its low
resistance, until heat from the bulb reaches it.
http://www.sensorsmag.com/files/sensor/nodes/1997/811/graphntc.gif
I designed the liquid level sensors for an ink jet printer with NTC
thermistors, and then dodged a competitor's intellectual property
lawsuit by saying that the low-fuel light in my car used one the same
way. Thermistor app notes show how, if you know to look there.
http://www.thinking.com.tw/documents/en-NTC-application.pdf
news:XnsA2B1494396B2ll...@216.168.3.70...
resistance, until heat from the bulb reaches it.
http://www.sensorsmag.com/files/sensor/nodes/1997/811/graphntc.gif
I designed the liquid level sensors for an ink jet printer with NTC
thermistors, and then dodged a competitor's intellectual property
lawsuit by saying that the low-fuel light in my car used one the same
way. Thermistor app notes show how, if you know to look there.
http://www.thinking.com.tw/documents/en-NTC-application.pdf
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jan 10, 2014, 9:06:14 AM1/10/14
to
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> fired this volley in news:laouhm$dm3$1
@dont-email.me:
> An NTC has to drop some voltage to heat up and maintain its low
> resistance, until heat from the bulb reaches it.
Of course, they always keep some small resistance, but properly installed,
it's minimal. But that's not what Ned Sed. An NTC does NOT act like a
"plain resistor", unless he's re-invented the whole science.
Lloyd
@dont-email.me:
> An NTC has to drop some voltage to heat up and maintain its low
> resistance, until heat from the bulb reaches it.
it's minimal. But that's not what Ned Sed. An NTC does NOT act like a
"plain resistor", unless he's re-invented the whole science.
Lloyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jan 10, 2014, 9:07:31 AM1/10/14
to
"Jim Wilkins" <murat...@gmail.com> fired this volley in news:laouhm$dm3$1
@dont-email.me:
> I designed the liquid level sensors for an ink jet printer with NTC
> thermistors, and then dodged a competitor's intellectual property
> lawsuit by saying that the low-fuel light in my car used one the same
> way. Thermistor app notes show how, if you know to look there.
> http://www.thinking.com.tw/documents/en-NTC-application.pdf
Sure... there are even 'true level' detectors that use either an array of
NTCs or a long, thin one, partially or fully immersed.
LLoyd
@dont-email.me:
> I designed the liquid level sensors for an ink jet printer with NTC
> thermistors, and then dodged a competitor's intellectual property
> lawsuit by saying that the low-fuel light in my car used one the same
> way. Thermistor app notes show how, if you know to look there.
> http://www.thinking.com.tw/documents/en-NTC-application.pdf
NTCs or a long, thin one, partially or fully immersed.
LLoyd
Ned Simmons
Jan 10, 2014, 9:08:12 AM1/10/14
to
when hot, but, considering that the life of the filament is inversely
proportional to voltage^16, even a small voltage drop will
substantially increase the lamp's life. The inrush has little to do
with life except when the filament is about to fail anyway, so a low
value resistor will accomplish the same thing as the NTC limiter.
--
Ned Simmons
Ned Simmons
Jan 10, 2014, 9:16:24 AM1/10/14
to
extended life of a lamp in series with an NTC would be due to the hot
resistance of the NTC, not the inrush limiting. Thus a plain resistor
would accomplish the same thing as the NTC in this case.
--
Ned Simmons
Jim Wilkins
Jan 10, 2014, 9:40:56 AM1/10/14
to
"Ned Simmons" <ne...@nedsim.com> wrote in message
news:91vvc9dc2dvge5r53...@4ax.com...
easily replaced bulbs in reading lamps etc it's more economical to use
a lower wattage bulb at full voltage, since they consume maybe 5X
their price in electricity during their life.
In college I experimentally shut off the steam radiator and used a
200W bulb for heat. Although electricity was more expensive than fuel
oil, the radiant heat from the bulb kept us comfortable at a lower air
temperature. There were too many unknowns to quantify the difference.
jsw
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
Jan 10, 2014, 9:46:01 AM1/10/14
to
Ned Simmons <ne...@nedsim.com> fired this volley in
news:jpvvc9tujkdoomgr0...@4ax.com:
> I didn't say a resistor would behave the same as an NTC. I said the
> extended life of a lamp in series with an NTC would be due to the hot
> resistance of the NTC, not the inrush limiting. Thus a plain resistor
> would accomplish the same thing as the NTC in this case.
>
That's not the case, at all, and I have professional experience to the
contrary. If installed close enough to the lamp to be heated by it, a
properly-selected NTC has minimal hot resistance. I-lamps almost always
fail at inrush time, until very, very old.
Lloyd
news:jpvvc9tujkdoomgr0...@4ax.com:
> I didn't say a resistor would behave the same as an NTC. I said the
> extended life of a lamp in series with an NTC would be due to the hot
> resistance of the NTC, not the inrush limiting. Thus a plain resistor
> would accomplish the same thing as the NTC in this case.
>
contrary. If installed close enough to the lamp to be heated by it, a
properly-selected NTC has minimal hot resistance. I-lamps almost always
fail at inrush time, until very, very old.
Lloyd
Ned Simmons
Jan 10, 2014, 9:54:59 AM1/10/14
to
temperature. It's not a conspiracy by the mfrs to get us to buy more
bulbs. The most economical operating point may not be the same for a
bulb that's easily replaced compared to one that's hard to access or
critical for safety.
>
>In college I experimentally shut off the steam radiator and used a
>200W bulb for heat. Although electricity was more expensive than fuel
>oil, the radiant heat from the bulb kept us comfortable at a lower air
>temperature. There were too many unknowns to quantify the difference.
>jsw
>
with the wood stove. The amount of wood we burn is considerably less
than the BTU equivalent in oil it takes to keep the place comfortable.
--
Ned Simmons
Ned Simmons
Jan 10, 2014, 10:04:48 AM1/10/14
to
reach a false conclusion. If we're comparing bona fides, I have
professional experience working directly in the production of
incandescents, including working closely with the filament designers.
Show me a credible reference that the life of properly designed and
manufactured filament in a conventional lamp is reduced significantly
by inrush.
--
Ned Simmons
Larry Jaques
Jan 10, 2014, 8:23:51 PM1/10/14
to
comfy sleeping in the open, myself. Besides, this just doesn't look
like _you_: http://tinyurl.com/mulxke9
Larry Jaques
Jan 10, 2014, 8:36:40 PM1/10/14
to
On Fri, 10 Jan 2014 09:54:59 -0500, Ned Simmons <ne...@nedsim.com>
wrote:
Yes, but it costs considerably more to get the 200x amount of
pollution from the wood stove out of the air. Screw wood heat.
wrote:
pollution from the wood stove out of the air. Screw wood heat.
pyotr filipivich
Jan 11, 2014, 2:59:38 PM1/11/14
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> on Fri, 10 Jan 2014
17:23:51 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
One, making the bed in the morning is as simple as closing the
door.
Two: easier to heat a smaller space like that with body heat, than
an entire bedroom.
Three: neato making factor.
>I'm more
>comfy sleeping in the open, myself. Besides, this just doesn't look
>like _you_: http://tinyurl.com/mulxke9
--
17:23:51 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>On Thu, 09 Jan 2014 21:38:57 -0800, pyotr filipivich
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Thu, 09 Jan 2014
>>01:26:12 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>> >pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>> >> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>>>> >> geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>>>> >
>>>> > Hide them under your bed. If you hide enough stuff there, you
>>>> > won't have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
>>>>
>>>> I already have a bunch of stuff under there. I'm already putting
>>>> the bed up on blocks ... and I've a cat who hides down in the "gaps".
>>>
>>> I'm thinking about building a 'Captain's Bed' type base to hold my
>>>hospital bed.
>>
>> Cool. I've been thinking about building a combination Captain's
>>Bunk and "Dutch Cupboard" sleeping space for years. Have many sketch
>>in many notebooks.
>
>I'm curious, Pete: Why would anyone want a bed in a box?
Two reasons.
><ph...@mindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Thu, 09 Jan 2014
>>01:26:12 -0500 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>>>pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>> Michael A. Terrell wrote:
>>>> >pyotr filipivich wrote:
>>>> >> Just picked up a case of 60watters - 120 bulbs for 19.80 less a
>>>> >> geezer discount. Now where the bleep I'm going to store these ... B-)
>>>> >
>>>> > Hide them under your bed. If you hide enough stuff there, you
>>>> > won't have any lazy liberals hiding themselves there. :)
>>>>
>>>> I already have a bunch of stuff under there. I'm already putting
>>>> the bed up on blocks ... and I've a cat who hides down in the "gaps".
>>>
>>> I'm thinking about building a 'Captain's Bed' type base to hold my
>>>hospital bed.
>>
>> Cool. I've been thinking about building a combination Captain's
>>Bunk and "Dutch Cupboard" sleeping space for years. Have many sketch
>>in many notebooks.
>
>I'm curious, Pete: Why would anyone want a bed in a box?
One, making the bed in the morning is as simple as closing the
door.
Two: easier to heat a smaller space like that with body heat, than
an entire bedroom.
Three: neato making factor.
>I'm more
>comfy sleeping in the open, myself. Besides, this just doesn't look
>like _you_: http://tinyurl.com/mulxke9
--
Larry Jaques
Jan 11, 2014, 6:12:30 PM1/11/14
to
On Sat, 11 Jan 2014 11:59:38 -0800, pyotr filipivich
OK, point there. But repudiation lies here:
http://tinyurl.com/l9v99w5
> Two: easier to heat a smaller space like that with body heat, than
>an entire bedroom.
True, if you like small, stuffy, but warm spaces.
> Three: neato making factor.
OK, but that lasts, what, a week?
Our mileages vary.
--
Education is that which remains when one has
forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein
http://tinyurl.com/l9v99w5
> Two: easier to heat a smaller space like that with body heat, than
>an entire bedroom.
> Three: neato making factor.
OK, but that lasts, what, a week?
Our mileages vary.
--
Education is that which remains when one has
forgotten everything he learned in school.
--Albert Einstein
pyotr filipivich
Jan 12, 2014, 1:33:23 AM1/12/14
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> on Sat, 11 Jan 2014
15:12:30 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
Points taken.
As far as "stuffy" goes- - that is a design issue. OT3H - if you
are the sort to eat a lot of bean burritos before bed - having a small
enclosed sleeping space might be a bad idea. Definitely you will not
want any open flames in there ...
>> Three: neato making factor.
>
>OK, but that lasts, what, a week?
I built a combination desk, closet and bunkbed when I was in High
School. I had the room with no closet at all, so "build your own" was
the option. I had that setup for the next four years, on three AF
bases. "It worked."
I should find a link to the "universal furniture members" thingy,
which used 2x2 as the framework.
>
>Our mileages vary.
True.
Oh, and I forgot - if you work night shift - in there it is Dark.
No having to have heavy curtains or tinfoil on the windows.
15:12:30 -0800 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>> Two: easier to heat a smaller space like that with body heat, than
>>an entire bedroom.
>
>True, if you like small, stuffy, but warm spaces.
Think if it as a non-portable "mushroom" tent.
>> Two: easier to heat a smaller space like that with body heat, than
>>an entire bedroom.
>
>True, if you like small, stuffy, but warm spaces.
As far as "stuffy" goes- - that is a design issue. OT3H - if you
are the sort to eat a lot of bean burritos before bed - having a small
enclosed sleeping space might be a bad idea. Definitely you will not
want any open flames in there ...
>> Three: neato making factor.
>
>OK, but that lasts, what, a week?
School. I had the room with no closet at all, so "build your own" was
the option. I had that setup for the next four years, on three AF
bases. "It worked."
I should find a link to the "universal furniture members" thingy,
which used 2x2 as the framework.
>
>Our mileages vary.
True.
Oh, and I forgot - if you work night shift - in there it is Dark.
No having to have heavy curtains or tinfoil on the windows.
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