1938 Austria......
Gunner Asch
Subject: 1938 Austria
Kitty Werthmann is a native Austrian who remembers well the Third Reich
reign of terror in Europe.
Now in her 80's Werthmann is a leader of the South Dakota branch of the
Eagle
Forum, a conservative organization headed up by talk radio personality
and political activist Phyllis Schlafly.
Werthmann spends her time speaking on socialism and how Hitler took
power.
1938 Austria
"After America , There is No Place to Go"
The author of this article lives in South Dakota and appears to be very
active in attempting to maintain our freedom. I encourage everybody to
read this article and pass it along. I see so many parallels in this
country–are we going to sit by and watch it happen? Spread the word;
also contact your congressional reps; vote them out if they don’t do
what they should. If you don’t want to be bothered, then you’re part of
the problem! Google Kitty Werthmann and you will see articles and
videos.
http://lornakismet.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/werthmann1.jpg
America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom
Slip Away
By: Kitty Werthmann
What I am about to tell you is something you've probably never heard or
will ever read in history books.
I believe that I am an eyewitness to history. I cannot tell you that
Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. We
elected him by a landslide - 98% of the vote.. I've never read that in
any American publications. Everyone thinks that Hitler just rolled in
with his tanks and took Austria by force.
In 1938, Austria was in deep Depression. Nearly one-third of our
workforce was unemployed. We had 25% inflation and 25% bank loan
interest rates.
Farmers and business people were declaring bankruptcy daily. Young
people were going from house to house begging for food. Not that they
didn't want to work; there simply weren't any jobs. My mother was a
Christian woman and believed in helping people in need. Every day we
cooked a big kettle of soup and baked bread to feed those poor, hungry
people - about 30 daily.
The Communist Party and the National Socialist Party were fighting each
other. Blocks and blocks of cities like Vienna , Linz , and Graz were
destroyed. The people became desperate and petitioned the government to
let them decide what kind of government they wanted.
We looked to our neighbor on the north, Germany , where Hitler had been
in power since 1933. We had been told that they didn't have
unemployment or crime, and they had a high standard of living. Nothing
was ever said about persecution of any group -- Jewish or otherwise. We
were led to believe that everyone was happy. We wanted the same way of
life in Austria . We were promised that a vote for Hitler would mean the
end of unemployment and help for the family. Hitler also said that
businesses would be assisted, and farmers would get their farms back.
Ninety-eight percent of the population voted to annex Austria to Germany
and have Hitler for our ruler.
We were overjoyed, and for three days we danced in the streets and had
candlelight parades. The new government opened up big field kitchens
and everyone was fed.
After the election, German officials were appointed, and like a miracle,
we suddenly had law and order. Three or four weeks later, everyone was
employed. The government made sure that a lot of work was created
through the Public Work Service.
Hitler decided we should have equal rights for women. Before this, it
was a custom that married Austrian women did not work outside the home.
An able-bodied husband would be looked down on if he couldn't support
his family. Many women in the teaching profession were elated that they
could retain the jobs they previously had been required to give up for
marriage.
Hitler Targets Education - Eliminates Religious Instruction for
Children:
Our education was nationalized. I attended a very good public school.
The population was predominantly Catholic, so we had religion in our
schools. The day we elected Hitler (March 13, 1938), I walked into my
schoolroom to find the crucifix replaced by Hitler's picture hanging
next to a Nazi flag. Our teacher, a very devout woman, stood up and told
the class we wouldn't pray or have religion anymore. Instead, we sang
"Deutschland, Deutschland, Uber Alles," and had physical education.
Sunday became National Youth Day with compulsory attendance. Parents
were not pleased about the sudden change in curriculum. They were told
that if they did not send us, they would receive a stiff letter of
warning the first time. The second time they would be fined the
equivalent of $300, and the third time they would be subject to jail.
The first two hours consisted of political indoctrination. The rest of
the day we had sports. As time went along, we loved it. Oh, we had so
much fun and got our sports equipment free. We would go home and
gleefully tell our parents about the wonderful time we had.
My mother was very unhappy. When the next term started, she took me out
of public school and put me in a convent. I told her she couldn't do
that and she told me that someday when I grew up, I would be grateful.
There was a very good curriculum, but hardly any fun - no sports, and no
political indoctrination. I hated it at first but felt I could tolerate
it. Every once in a while, on holidays, I went home. I would go back
to my old friends and ask what was going on and what they were doing.
Their loose lifestyle was very alarming to me. They lived without
religion. By that time unwed mothers were glorified for having a baby
for Hitler. It seemed strange to me that our society changed so
suddenly. As time went along, I realized what a great deed my mother
did so that I wasn't exposed to that kind of humanistic philosophy.
Equal Rights Hits Home:
In 1939, the war started and a food bank was established. All food was
rationed and could only be purchased using food stamps. At the same
time, a full-employment law was passed which meant if you didn't work,
you didn't get a ration card, and if you didn't have a card, you starved
to death. Women who stayed home to raise their families didn't have any
marketable skills and often had to take jobs more suited for men.
Soon after this, the draft was implemented. It was compulsory for young
people, male and female, to give one year to the labor corps. During
the day, the girls worked on the farms, and at night they returned to
their barracks for military training just like the boys. They were
trained to be anti-aircraft gunners and participated in the signal
corps. After the labor corps, they were not discharged but were used in
the front lines. When I go back to Austria to visit my family and
friends, most of these women are emotional cripples because they just
were not equipped to handle the horrors of combat. Three months before
I turned 18, I was severely injured in an air raid attack. I nearly had
a leg amputated, so I was spared having to go into the labor corps and
into military service.
Hitler Restructured the Family Through Daycare:
When the mothers had to go out into the work force, the government
immediately established child care centers. You could take your
children ages 4 weeks to school age and leave them there
around-the-clock, 7 days a week, under the total care of the government.
The state raised a whole generation of children.. There were no
motherly women to take care of the children, just people highly trained
in child psychology. By this time, no one talked about equal rights.
We knew we had been had.
Health Care and Small Business Suffer Under Government Controls:
Before Hitler, we had very good medical care. Many American doctors
trained at the University of Vienna . After Hitler, health care was
socialized, free for everyone. Doctors were salaried by the government.
The problem was, since it was free, the people were going to the doctors
for everything. When the good doctor arrived at his office at 8 a.m., 40
people were already waiting and, at the same time, the hospitals were
full. If you needed elective surgery, you had to wait a year or two for
your turn. There was no money for research as it was poured into
socialized medicine. Research at the medical schools literally stopped,
so the best doctors left Austria and emigrated to other countries.
As for healthcare, our tax rates went up to 80% of our income.
Newlyweds immediately received a $1,000 loan from the government to
establish a household. We had big programs for families. All day care
and education were free. High schools were taken over by the government
and college tuition was subsidized. Everyone was entitled to free
handouts, such as food stamps, clothing, and housing.
We had another agency designed to monitor business. My brother-in-law
owned a restaurant that had square tables. Government officials told
him he had to replace them with round tables because people might bump
themselves on the corners. Then they said he had to have additional
bathroom facilities. It was just a small dairy business with a snack
bar. He couldn't meet all the demands. Soon, he went out of business.
If the government owned the large businesses and not many small ones
existed, it could be in control.
We had consumer protection. We were told how to shop and what to buy.
Free enterprise was essentially abolished. We had a planning agency
specially designed for farmers. The agents would go to the farms, count
the live-stock, then tell the farmers what to produce, and how to
produce it.
"Mercy Killing" Redefined:
In 1944, I was a student teacher in a small village in the Alps . The
villagers were surrounded by mountain passes which, in the winter, were
closed off with snow, causing people to be isolated. So people
intermarried and offspring were sometimes retarded. When I arrived, I
was told there were 15 mentally retarded adults, but they were all
useful and did good manual work. I knew one, named Vincent, very well.
He was a janitor of the school. One day I looked out the window and saw
Vincent and others getting into a van. I asked my superior where they
were going. She said to an institution where the State Health
Department would teach them a trade, and to read and write. The
families were required to sign papers with a little clause that they
could not visit for 6 months. They were told visits would interfere
with the program and might cause homesickness.
As time passed, letters started to dribble back saying these people died
a natural, merciful death. The villagers were not fooled. We suspected
what was happening. Those people left in excellent physical health and
all died within 6 months. We called this euthanasia.
The Final Steps - Gun Laws:
Next came gun registration.. People were getting injured by guns.
Hitler said that the real way to catch criminals (we still had a few)
was by matching serial numbers on guns. Most citizens were law abiding
and dutifully marched to the police station to register their firearms.
Not long after-wards, the police said that it was best for everyone to
turn in their guns. The authorities already knew who had them, so it
was futile not to comply voluntarily.
No more freedom of speech. Anyone who said something against the
government was taken away. We knew many people who were arrested, not
only Jews, but also priests and ministers who spoke up.
Totalitarianism didn't come quickly, it took 5 years from 1938 until
1943, to realize full dictatorship in Austria . Had it happened
overnight, my countrymen would have fought to the last breath. Instead,
we had creeping gradualism. Now, our only weapons were broom handles.
The whole idea sounds almost unbelievable that the state, little by
little eroded our freedom.
After World War II, Russian troops occupied Austria . Women were raped,
preteen to elderly. The press never wrote about this either. When the
Soviets left in 1955, they took everything that they could, dismantling
whole factories in the process. They sawed down whole orchards of
fruit, and what they couldn't destroy, they burned. We called it The
Burned Earth. Most of the population barricaded themselves in their
houses. Women hid in their cellars for 6 weeks as the troops mobilized.
Those who couldn't, paid the price. There is a monument in Vienna
today, dedicated to those women who were massacred by the Russians.
This is an eye witness account.
"It's true..those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a
country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.
America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom
Slip Away
"After America , There is No Place to Go"
knews4...@yahoo.com
> Those who couldn't, paid the price. There is a monument in Vienna
> today, dedicated to those women who were massacred by the Russians.
> This is an eye witness account.
>
> "It's true..those of us who sailed past the Statue of Liberty came to a
> country of unbelievable freedom and opportunity.
>
> America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom
> Slip Away
>
> "After America , There is No Place to Go"
80 years is just enough time for generations to forget the insidious
nature of history's tyrants backed by Satanic Banksters.
Thus, they answer all the questions on the "census."
Thank god for the internet or no one would have a clue.
I think The Earth is pissed.
Dig in.
Stormin Mormon
Aparently, true.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:ek8ns5dmk9j494ps2...@4ax.com...
Subject: 1938 Austria
Kitty Werthmann is a native Austrian who remembers well the
Third Reich
reign of terror in Europe.
Now in her 80's Werthmann is a leader of the South Dakota
branch of the
Eagle
Forum, a conservative organization headed up by talk radio
personality
and political activist Phyllis Schlafly.
Werthmann spends her time speaking on socialism and how
Hitler took
power.
1938 Austria
"After America , There is No Place to Go"
The author of this article lives in South Dakota and appears
to be very
active in attempting to maintain our freedom. I encourage
everybody to
read this article and pass it along. I see so many
parallels in this
country-are we going to sit by and watch it happen? Spread
hal
wrote:
>
>Subject: 1938 Austria
>
>
>
>Kitty Werthmann is a native Austrian who remembers well the Third Reich
>reign of terror in Europe.
>Now in her 80's Werthmann is a leader of the South Dakota branch of the
>Eagle
>
>Forum, a conservative organization headed up by talk radio personality
>and political activist Phyllis Schlafly.
>Werthmann spends her time speaking on socialism and how Hitler took
>power.
Fascism, you mean. There was nothing socialist whatsoever about Nazi
Germany.
Dave__67
>
> read more »
"I believe that I am an eyewitness to history. I cannot tell you that
Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. We
elected him by a landslide - 98% of the vote."
Especially apropos as the next bunch are probably going to be elected
by a fairly high margin.
Dave
knews4...@yahoo.com
> On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:24:46 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com>
So they just called it "National Socialism" for fun.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
Gunner Asch
You forget this bunch was elected by a "fairly high margin"?
And what they have done so far......?
Gunner
Dave__67
I'm just reminding folks that the gov't power grab is not a just a
left or just a right phenomenon, that an influx of repubs over the
next few elections does not mean that a single damn thing has been
'fixed'.
Dave
RBnDFW
I'm thinking the Tea Party people culling (not in the Gunner sense) the
'moderate" Republicans. Look what's happening to McCain right now.
JR North
Scouts selling cookies shaped like Swastikas, U-Boats,, Stukas, Tiger
Tanks and gas chamber doors. All baked over the smouldering embers of
burning books and Jewish bodies.
JR
Dweller in the celler
Gunner Asch wrote:
> Subject: 1938 Austria
>
>
>
>
--
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
Stormin Mormon
Government departments like tax department, or prisons would
be set up to keep the people in control. Certain groups of
people would be favored over other groups. Some would be
very wealthy, while most of the people worked hard to make
ends meet. Taxes would be high. The government could "come
and get" anyone at any time, if they chose.
Hey, wait! That sounds like right now!
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"JR North" <junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:DI2dnd94ZvePOVHW...@posted.isomediainc...
Strabo
> On Apr 19, 12:54 pm, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 07:29:21 -0700 (PDT), Dave__67
>>
>>
>>
>> <spamTHIS...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On Apr 18, 8:24 pm, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>> Subject: 1938 Austria
>>>> Kitty Werthmann is a native Austrian who remembers well the Third Reich
>>>> reign of terror in Europe.
>>>> Now in her 80's Werthmann is a leader of the South Dakota branch of the
>>>> Eagle
>>>> Forum, a conservative organization headed up by talk radio personality
>>>> and political activist Phyllis Schlafly.
>>>> Werthmann spends her time speaking on socialism and how Hitler took
>>>> power.
>>>> 1938 Austria
>>>> "After America , There is No Place to Go"
>>>> The author of this article lives in South Dakota and appears to be very
>>>> active in attempting to maintain our freedom. I encourage everybody to
>>>> read this article and pass it along. I see so many parallels in this
>>>> also contact your congressional reps; vote them out if they don�t do
>>>> what they should. If you don�t want to be bothered, then you�re part of
>>>> the problem! Google Kitty Werthmann and you will see articles and
>>>> videos.
>>>> http://lornakismet.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/werthmann1.jpg
>>>> America Truly is the Greatest Country in the World. Don't Let Freedom
>>>> Slip Away
>>>> By: Kitty Werthmann
>>>> What I am about to tell you is something you've probably never heard or
>>>> will ever read in history books.
>>>> snipped
>>> "I believe that I am an eyewitness to history. I cannot tell you that
>>> Hitler took Austria by tanks and guns; it would distort history. We
>>> elected him by a landslide - 98% of the vote."
>>> Especially apropos as the next bunch are probably going to be elected
>>> by a fairly high margin.
>>> Dave
>> You forget this bunch was elected by a "fairly high margin"?
>> And what they have done so far......?
>>
>> Gunner
>
> I'm just reminding folks that the gov't power grab is not a just a
> left or just a right phenomenon, that an influx of repubs over the
> next few elections does not mean that a single damn thing has been
> 'fixed'.
>
Good for you!
The Republican and Democratic parties are corrupt and not to be trusted.
Unfortunately, the party system and rigged elections guarantee that one
or the other will remain the official federal power.
Fortunately, Americans are invested in individual state governments and
have more personal options than Austrians in 1938.
Individuals should Concentrate on cleansing their respective state
governments and become self-sufficient.
With these conflicting power options we can prevent a dictatorship.
>
> Dave
Ignoramus9593
The referendum took place a month after Hitler took over Austria. (and
predictably yielded a 99.97% vote).
Lame attempts to draw parallels between Obama administration and the
Hitler regime are laughable to any serious student of WWII. I would
recommend to anyone to read at least 100 lbs of books on WWII, pretty
much any selection should get one started.
Anschluss was supported by many in Austria, but not to the extent that
the fake Hitler sponsored referendum implied.
After the war, Austria cleverly tried to wiggle out of its war
responsibility by pretending to be a "victim of Anschluss".
Fortunately enough, it did not prevent Austria from paying its share
of reparations. Unfortunately, their self selected status as "victims"
of Hitler prevented them from doing de-Nazification to any serious
extent.
The positive effect of reparations and wartime destruction mentioned,
is that Austria (as well as Germany) is now a peace loving
country. They are rejecting war and economic instability.
i
Gunner Asch
<cayoung61**spamblock##@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Well, our nation would live in fear of the government.
>Government departments like tax department, or prisons would
>be set up to keep the people in control. Certain groups of
>people would be favored over other groups. Some would be
>very wealthy, while most of the people worked hard to make
>ends meet. Taxes would be high. The government could "come
>and get" anyone at any time, if they chose.
>
>Hey, wait! That sounds like right now!
Yes indeed it does.
Fascism is fascism, no matter what country its running in.
And today, under Democrats..America is fascist lite.
Gunner
"First Law of Leftist Debate
The more you present a leftist with factual evidence
that is counter to his preconceived world view and the
more difficult it becomes for him to refute it without
losing face the chance of him calling you a racist, bigot,
homophobe approaches infinity.
This is despite the thread you are in having not mentioned
race or sexual preference in any way that is relevant to
the subject." Grey Ghost
Ignoramus9593
> Just imagine if we had lost the war. There would be little Nazi Girl
> Scouts selling cookies shaped like Swastikas, U-Boats,, Stukas, Tiger
> Tanks and gas chamber doors. All baked over the smouldering embers of
> burning books and Jewish bodies.
I think that it is unrealistic to think that if the Allies lost the
war, the United States would be taken over by Germany. The effect on
the United States would be withdrawal from Europe, and, possibly, from
the Pacific theatre.
i
Gunner Asch
Do you think that after 50 yrs of owning Europe, Russia and all of
Eurasia..the Germans couldnt take the US?
You would be terribly wrong.
Gunner Asch
<ignora...@NOSPAM.9593.invalid> wrote:
>The real history of Anschluss was not exactly as presented.
>
>The referendum took place a month after Hitler took over Austria. (and
>predictably yielded a 99.97% vote).
>
>Lame attempts to draw parallels between Obama administration and the
>Hitler regime are laughable to any serious student of WWII. I would
>recommend to anyone to read at least 100 lbs of books on WWII, pretty
>much any selection should get one started.
Your opinion is indeed..noted.
>
>Anschluss was supported by many in Austria, but not to the extent that
>the fake Hitler sponsored referendum implied.
>
>After the war, Austria cleverly tried to wiggle out of its war
>responsibility by pretending to be a "victim of Anschluss".
>Fortunately enough, it did not prevent Austria from paying its share
>of reparations. Unfortunately, their self selected status as "victims"
>of Hitler prevented them from doing de-Nazification to any serious
>extent.
>
>The positive effect of reparations and wartime destruction mentioned,
>is that Austria (as well as Germany) is now a peace loving
>country. They are rejecting war and economic instability.
>
>i
Yes..and?
John R. Carroll
And Bob Bennett, Charlie Crist and so on and so forth.
LOL
--
John R. Carroll
Ignoramus9593
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 14:01:56 -0500, Ignoramus9593
><ignora...@NOSPAM.9593.invalid> wrote:
>
>>On 2010-04-19, JR North <junkjas...@bigfoot.com> wrote:
>>> Just imagine if we had lost the war. There would be little Nazi Girl
>>> Scouts selling cookies shaped like Swastikas, U-Boats,, Stukas, Tiger
>>> Tanks and gas chamber doors. All baked over the smouldering embers of
>>> burning books and Jewish bodies.
>>
>>I think that it is unrealistic to think that if the Allies lost the
>>war, the United States would be taken over by Germany. The effect on
>>the United States would be withdrawal from Europe, and, possibly, from
>>the Pacific theatre.
>>
>>i
>
> Do you think that after 50 yrs of owning Europe, Russia and all of
> Eurasia..the Germans couldnt take the US?
>
> You would be terribly wrong.
Though it is hypothetical, I think that no, it would not be able to
take over the US. With the ocean in between, and nuclear weapons, it
would not be realistic.
i
Ignoramus9593
><ignora...@NOSPAM.9593.invalid> wrote:
>
>>The real history of Anschluss was not exactly as presented.
>>
>>The referendum took place a month after Hitler took over Austria. (and
>>predictably yielded a 99.97% vote).
>>
>>Lame attempts to draw parallels between Obama administration and the
>>Hitler regime are laughable to any serious student of WWII. I would
>>recommend to anyone to read at least 100 lbs of books on WWII, pretty
>>much any selection should get one started.
>
> Your opinion is indeed..noted.
>>
>>Anschluss was supported by many in Austria, but not to the extent that
>>the fake Hitler sponsored referendum implied.
>>
>>After the war, Austria cleverly tried to wiggle out of its war
>>responsibility by pretending to be a "victim of Anschluss".
>>Fortunately enough, it did not prevent Austria from paying its share
>>of reparations. Unfortunately, their self selected status as "victims"
>>of Hitler prevented them from doing de-Nazification to any serious
>>extent.
>>
>>The positive effect of reparations and wartime destruction mentioned,
>>is that Austria (as well as Germany) is now a peace loving
>>country. They are rejecting war and economic instability.
>>
>>i
>
> Yes..and?
The history is not as simple as Republican chain letters would
suggest. Republicans are preying on the uninformed.
i
Gunner Asch
<ignora...@NOSPAM.9593.invalid> wrote:
Do you think the Nazis would worry about the use of Nukes on either side
of the pond?
In fact..they probably would have nuked anyone on their hate list,
jews/Ukranians/South Americans of all nationalities, etc etc.
And launching a few dozen into coastal cities of the US would have been
terribly terribly errosive to the American world view. The Nazis would
have consolidated and brougth ALL of europe and Russia into their
empire, along with a good selection of South America. If the Japs had
won....they would have hit America from both sides and simply rolled us
up like a bad carpet.
This is something I DO know a little bit about.
Keep in mind they already had long range missiles and were on their way
to developing better ones that were better aimed. Sticking a nuke on a
Vx wouldnt have been any big issue after 20 yrs of research. We did it
quite nicely in that length of time. We had nifty ICBMs by 1964
And they simply could have floated one into every port in America and
detonated it via submarine. That makes those a VERY dirty bomb...and
would have forced the survivors to leave those sea ports for over 100
yrs, effectively closing down those seaports for a very long time.
Shrug
Gunner Asch
Blink blink....blink....you did say that, in print..didnt you...?
So tell me Iggy..hows that : Hope and Change thingy working out for you?
Odd how many people in the Democratic Party are streaming away into the
Independant catagory, isnt it?
http://hotair.com/archives/2010/01/14/poll-majority-would-vote-against-obama-re-election/
Only 39% OF THOSE THAT VOTED FOR HIM..would vote for him again.
Seems that Hope and Changy Thingy really isnt working out for them..is
it?
Iggy..sigh..while I like you, and I like you a lot and respect you..its
evident you are still Russian at heart.
But maybe your kid will be normal.
hal
wrote:
>On Apr 19, 7:02=A0am, hal wrote:
>> On Sun, 18 Apr 2010 17:24:46 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>>
>> >Subject: 1938 Austria
>>
>> >Kitty Werthmann is a native Austrian who remembers well the Third Reich
>> >reign of terror in Europe.
>> >Now in her 80's Werthmann is a leader of the South Dakota branch of the
>> >Eagle
>>
>> >Forum, a conservative organization headed up by talk radio personality
>> >and political activist Phyllis Schlafly. =A0
>> >Werthmann spends her time speaking on socialism and how Hitler took
>> >power.
>>
>> Fascism, you mean. =A0There was nothing socialist whatsoever about Nazi
>> Germany.
>
>So they just called it "National Socialism" for fun.
>http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nazism
Hitler was one of the world's all time greatest liars. He called it
national socialism to try to win over and control the populace.
There was nothing socialist about the Nazis. Nazis hated the
communists even more than they hated the Jews, remember?
Just Me
together from different stories by different people because this story
has been floating around for decades,at least since the Reagan
regime .Maybe because I wasn't educated in the US that the fact Hitler
was elected is not news to me ,but this post also shows me that you
right leaning libertarian types do not have any comprehension of
either 1930s European politics or history;and even more distressing
you don't seem to have any comprehension of US politics or history
either,you just seemed so wrapped up in the mythology of the US that
you can't even see the reality .Do you really think that Obama is
about to engineer a military take over? and if you really think he is
engineering a socialist take over then you are more brain dead than I
imagined.How many of you trigger happy open carry militia types
actually have the balls to take on the US gov't with guns or it just
the myth that gives you wet dreams at night and lets you feel so good
on these boards.The Gov't has it problem but living in no tax free
market(ie:robber baron) state that rather looks like Deadwood circa
1850 is not my idea of civilization.
> was told there were 15 mentally retarded ...
>
> read more »
Gunner Asch
<mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>Interesting,but it's probably not true in it's entirety,cobbled
>together from different stories by different people because this story
>has been floating around for decades,at least since the Reagan
>regime .Maybe because I wasn't educated in the US that the fact Hitler
>was elected is not news to me ,but this post also shows me that you
>right leaning libertarian types do not have any comprehension of
>either 1930s European politics or history;and even more distressing
>you don't seem to have any comprehension of US politics or history
>either,you just seemed so wrapped up in the mythology of the US that
>you can't even see the reality .Do you really think that Obama is
>about to engineer a military take over? and if you really think he is
>engineering a socialist take over then you are more brain dead than I
>imagined.How many of you trigger happy open carry militia types
>actually have the balls to take on the US gov't with guns or it just
>the myth that gives you wet dreams at night and lets you feel so good
>on these boards.The Gov't has it problem but living in no tax free
>market(ie:robber baron) state that rather looks like Deadwood circa
>1850 is not my idea of civilization.
According to all cites..its quite true.
As for how many have the guts..I should remind you of 1861-1865...and
the fact that things have changed dramatically since then..towards the
negative side for the North.
But hey..believe as you like. In a couple years the Great Cull will
remove most Leftwingers from America..shrug
Hope you arent a Leftwinger.
Shrug.
Jim Wilkins
> ...
> Do you think that after 50 yrs of owning Europe, Russia and all of
> Eurasia..the Germans couldnt take the US?
>
> You would be terribly wrong.
>
> Gunner
After 50 years of owning half of Europe, the Soviet Union was barely
capable of moving past its own borders as demonstrated in numerous
Mideast crises and the breakdown-plagued Admiral Kuznetsov cruise.
Not that those of us in the Fulda Gap were complacent. They just
couldn't transport a significant force any distance by air or sea, or
supply it.
I doubt the Germans would have been much different. In WW2 their
technical abilities were quite close and the Russians proved stronger.
We recently hashed over Operation Sealion (invasion of Britain) in
rec.aviation.military. Rock band road tours are better organized.
jsw
Just Me
I said you are so wrapped up in the mythology that you can't see the
reality.Beside if you idiots actually try to carry out your fantasy
then I suppose the civilized world will just have to quarrantine the
US until the infection plays out,maybe a few more religious fundies
tossed into the place might help you along,you know muslims christians
jews, hindus etc there are plenty of them to keep you amused.
> ...
>
> read more »
Gunner Asch
wrote:
True indeed. However..the Russians only prevailed with the material help
of America. Billions of tons of Lend Lease material went directly to
Russia.
If the Germans had won..had killed off the Marxists and Stalin..they
would have had a very very rich subject state.
Gunner Asch
<mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>This is not 1861 and that seems to be what you types are missing.Like
>I said you are so wrapped up in the mythology that you can't see the
>reality.Beside if you idiots actually try to carry out your fantasy
>then I suppose the civilized world will just have to quarrantine the
>US until the infection plays out,maybe a few more religious fundies
>tossed into the place might help you along,you know muslims christians
>jews, hindus etc there are plenty of them to keep you amused.
Which reality are you babbling about? That Marxists have come to power
in the US and control both Congress and the Presidency?
Of course they have. But..not for long <VBG>
We dont mind fundies, as long as they stay out of government, and out of
our faces.
In fact..their rights..as well as ours is guarenteed by the
Constitution.
Which unfortunately..you dont have any such guarentees, now do you?
Pity about that.
Tell you what..the next time you lads need your asses saved..dont ask
the US, ok? Fine with you?
Works for us.
Maybe some of those soon to be dead leftards would care to immigrate to
your nation? Im sure they would fit right in, no?
Gunner
Ignoramus9593
> On Apr 19, 3:49?pm, Gunner Asch <gunnera...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> ...
>> Do you think that after 50 yrs of owning Europe, Russia and all of
>> Eurasia..the Germans couldnt take the US?
>>
>> You would be terribly wrong.
>>
>> Gunner
>
> After 50 years of owning half of Europe, the Soviet Union was barely
> capable of moving past its own borders as demonstrated in numerous
> Mideast crises and the breakdown-plagued Admiral Kuznetsov cruise.
You got it exactly right.
> Not that those of us in the Fulda Gap were complacent. They just
> couldn't transport a significant force any distance by air or sea, or
> supply it.
> I doubt the Germans would have been much different. In WW2 their
> technical abilities were quite close and the Russians proved stronger.
The Russians had similar technical abilities on land (lesser on sear
or in the air), but there were 200,000,000 of them. They produced far
more tanks than Germans, same for aircraft (though the aircraft were
possibly not as good, I do not know this).
German losses on the Eastern Front, killed or taken prisoner, were 8.5
million, and Soviet losses were 11.8 million. ( I add the
KIA/MIA/Noncombat deaths and number of prisoners taken).
> We recently hashed over Operation Sealion (invasion of Britain) in
> rec.aviation.military. Rock band road tours are better organized.
After the war, Hitler's generals liked to blame Hitler, but in the
final analysis, which was not mine but with which I agree, is that
they were not that good themselves.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eastern_Front_(World_War_II)
i
Ignoramus9593
> True indeed. However..the Russians only prevailed with the material help
> of America. Billions of tons of Lend Lease material went directly to
> Russia.
>
> If the Germans had won..had killed off the Marxists and Stalin..they
> would have had a very very rich subject state.
Lend lease was a very valuable help program.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lend_lease#US_deliveries_to_USSR
A total of $50.1 billion (equivalent to $759 billion at 2008 prices)
worth of supplies were shipped: $31.4 billion to Britain, $11.3
billion to the Soviet Union, $3.2 billion to France and $1.6 billion
to China.
The USSR was highly dependent on rail transportation, but during the
war practically shut down rail equipment production: only about 92
locomotives were produced. 2,000 locomotives and 11,000 railcars were
supplied under Lend-Lease. The USSR had a pre-war stock of over 25,000
locomotives and 600,000 railcars. The Lend-Lease stock did not start
being shipped until 1944.[citation needed] Likewise, the Soviet air
force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet
aircraft production (19% for military aircraft).[7]
Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built
tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands
of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck
strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4
ton and Studebaker 2 1/2 ton, were easily the best trucks available in
their class on either side on the Eastern Front.[citation
needed]U.S. supplies of telephone cable, aluminum, canned rations, and
clothing were also critical.
pyotr filipivich
typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
>
>>I doubt the Germans would have been much different. In WW2 their
>>technical abilities were quite close and the Russians proved stronger.
>>
>>We recently hashed over Operation Sealion (invasion of Britain) in
>>rec.aviation.military. Rock band road tours are better organized.
>>
Did the same in soc.hist.what-if. Consensus was - it would end
badly for the Germans.
>>jsw
>
>True indeed. However..the Russians only prevailed with the material help
>of America. Billions of tons of Lend Lease material went directly to
>Russia.
>
>If the Germans had won..had killed off the Marxists and Stalin..they
>would have had a very very rich subject state.
However, as National Socialists, they would have had many of the
same economic presuppositions: namely that a bureaucrat in the Capital
is better at planning what your family needs, than you are. Doesn't
matter if the capital is Moscow, Berlin, Washington DC or Sacramento -
the mind set is the same.
And that leads to - at best - stagnation.
-
pyotr filipivich
We will drink no whiskey before its nine.
It's eight fifty eight. Close enough!
RogerN
"Gunner Asch" <gunne...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:29ups5lhvpk6eh5eb...@4ax.com...
> On Mon, 19 Apr 2010 17:10:17 -0700 (PDT), Just Me
> <mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>
>>This is not 1861 and that seems to be what you types are missing.Like
>>I said you are so wrapped up in the mythology that you can't see the
>>reality.Beside if you idiots actually try to carry out your fantasy
>>then I suppose the civilized world will just have to quarrantine the
>>US until the infection plays out,maybe a few more religious fundies
>>tossed into the place might help you along,you know muslims christians
>>jews, hindus etc there are plenty of them to keep you amused.
>
>
> Which reality are you babbling about? That Marxists have come to power
> in the US and control both Congress and the Presidency?
>
> Of course they have. But..not for long <VBG>
>
>
> We dont mind fundies, as long as they stay out of government, and out of
> our faces.
>
> In fact..their rights..as well as ours is guarenteed by the
> Constitution.
>
Pray for Obama Psalms 109
8 May his days be few;
may another take his place of leadership.
9 May his children be fatherless
and his wife a widow.
10 May his children be wandering beggars;
may they be driven from their ruined homes.
11 May a creditor seize all he has;
may strangers plunder the fruits of his labor.
12 May no one extend kindness to him
or take pity on his fatherless children.
13 May his descendants be cut off,
their names blotted out from the next generation.
RogerN
David R.Birch
> Hitler was one of the world's all time greatest liars. He called it
> national socialism to try to win over and control the populace.
> There was nothing socialist about the Nazis.
Not even their social security system, which was the model for ours?
> Nazis hated the
> communists even more than they hated the Jews, remember?
I thought we were talking about socialism, not communism. Are you one
of those poor lost souls who think they're the same thing?
David
Ed Huntress
"Just Me" <mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:0ec78d11-c43d-4104...@n20g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>Interesting,but it's probably not true in it's entirety,cobbled
>together from different stories by different people because this story
>has been floating around for decades,at least since the Reagan
>regime .Maybe because I wasn't educated in the US that the fact Hitler
>was elected is not news to me ,but this post also shows me that you
>right leaning libertarian types do not have any comprehension of
>either 1930s European politics or history;and even more distressing
>you don't seem to have any comprehension of US politics or history
>either,you just seemed so wrapped up in the mythology of the US that
>you can't even see the reality .
Bingo. Right-leaning folks are the ones who complain that American public
education is a disaster, and then they open their mouths and prove it.
>Do you really think that Obama is
>about to engineer a military take over? and if you really think he is
>engineering a socialist take over then you are more brain dead than I
>imagined.
You should see them up close. They're quite a sight.
>How many of you trigger happy open carry militia types
>actually have the balls to take on the US gov't with guns or it just
>the myth that gives you wet dreams at night and lets you feel so good
>on these boards.
Bingo again. They're mostly cowards and bullies.
>The Gov't has it problem but living in no tax free
>market(ie:robber baron) state that rather looks like Deadwood circa
>1850 is not my idea of civilization.
It's not anyone's idea of civilization. It's civilization itself that they
oppose. They prefer standing on their own two feet, and keep the God-damned
government's hands off of their Social Security and Medicare.
--
Ed Huntress
Gunner Asch
Yes indeed it was a very valuable program. And wave after wave of
Liberty Ships ported in Murmansk and other Russian ports hauling in
everything from food to fuel to artillery rounds.
IF the US had had to stop those.....
Strabo
> Interesting,but it's probably not true in it's entirety,cobbled
> together from different stories by different people because this story
> has been floating around for decades,at least since the Reagan
> regime .Maybe because I wasn't educated in the US that the fact Hitler
> was elected is not news to me ,but this post also shows me that you
> right leaning libertarian types do not have any comprehension of
> either 1930s European politics or history;and even more distressing
> you don't seem to have any comprehension of US politics or history
> either,you just seemed so wrapped up in the mythology of the US that
> you can't even see the reality .Do you really think that Obama is
> about to engineer a military take over? and if you really think he is
> engineering a socialist take over then you are more brain dead than I
> imagined.How many of you trigger happy open carry militia types
> actually have the balls to take on the US gov't with guns or it just
> the myth that gives you wet dreams at night and lets you feel so good
> on these boards.The Gov't has it problem but living in no tax free
> market(ie:robber baron) state that rather looks like Deadwood circa
> 1850 is not my idea of civilization.
>
As a historian who demands precision I thought you'd want to know that
there was no Deadwood, South Dakota until 1876.
<snipped>
Gunner Asch
wrote:
ROFLMAO!
Badabing!!
Well done sir..well done! Showed how little the asshat knows about
history.
Jim Wilkins
wrote:
> ...
> ...The Lend-Lease stock did not start
> being shipped until 1944.[citation needed] Likewise, the Soviet air
> force received 18,700 aircraft, which amounted to about 14% of Soviet
> aircraft production (19% for military aircraft).[7]
>
> Although most Red Army tank units were equipped with Soviet-built
> tanks, their logistical support was provided by hundreds of thousands
> of U.S.-made trucks. Indeed by 1945 nearly two-thirds of the truck
> strength of the Red Army was U.S.-built. Trucks such as the Dodge 3/4
> ton and Studebaker 2 1/2 ton, were easily the best trucks available in
> their class on either side on the Eastern Front.[citation
> needed]U.S. supplies of telephone cable, aluminum, canned rations, and
> clothing were also critical.
The Allies developed the equipment and tactics to effectively protect
convoys from U-boote in March-May 1943, shortly before the Soviet
victory at Kursk. Only then could the volume of supplies both support
the buildup for Normandy and significantly aid Stalin. German air and
naval forces in Norway also took time to reduce:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Convoy_PQ_17
Notice the date, July 1942.
The long truck route through Persia was less efficient. Iran's
resentment of the US began when Norman Schwarzkopf''s father set up
the Shah's secret police force to protect the route from bandits.
Government propaganda and a lack of uncensored individual memoirs make
reconstructing the war in Russia difficult. I have a Soviet textbook
(translation) from the early 50's that minimizes the Allied efforts,
short bios of several generals and little else. German accounts are
more illuminating but still somewhat suspect. The good descriptions of
Kursk and Stalingrad are by Western authors, like the book "Enemy at
the Gates". The incident in the movie takes only a few pages in the
book, there's much more on Mamayev Hill, the tank factory etc.
AFAIK the requested US aid was mainly transportation and support
equipment, to free Soviet factories to concentrate on weapons. Stalin
preferred his own tanks with good reason, Shermans were inferior to
the German Mark 5 or 6 which we defeated with fighter-bombers instead.
Heavy tanks are very difficult to transport any distance even on
undamaged roads as the Germans found when the 2nd SS Panzer Division
needed two critical weeks to drive from southern France to Normandy.
Germany and Russia could drive or walk to the battle, the US had to
ship everything across the Atlantic and then unload it first.
The combat aircraft provided were mainly the P-400 which was an export
P-39/63 ground-attack plane, a tank-buster but not a first-rate
fighter in most hands, though better than the Il-2. It could engage a
Zero with some chance of winning. Soviet fighters improved to match
the German ones they faced, partly because the very best German planes
were trying to protect their cities from Allied bombers.
These were excellent aircraft:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavochkin_La-7
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yakovlev_Yak-9
Didn't they teach you about hero pilots Kozhedub, Pokryshkin and
Litvak in school?
jsw
Jeff M
> "Just Me" <mutantm...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
> news:0ec78d11-c43d-4104...@n20g2000prh.googlegroups.com...
>> Interesting,but it's probably not true in it's entirety,cobbled
>> together from different stories by different people because this story
>> has been floating around for decades,at least since the Reagan
>> regime .Maybe because I wasn't educated in the US that the fact Hitler
>> was elected is not news to me ,but this post also shows me that you
>> right leaning libertarian types do not have any comprehension of
>> either 1930s European politics or history;and even more distressing
>> you don't seem to have any comprehension of US politics or history
>> either,you just seemed so wrapped up in the mythology of the US that
>> you can't even see the reality .
>
> Bingo. Right-leaning folks are the ones who complain that American public
> education is a disaster, and then they open their mouths and prove it.
Or run for office on a platform that "government itself is the problem"
then, when elected, proceed to govern in a manner that makes it so.
Just Me
obviously missed the point it was more to point out the lawlessness
that you seem to find so attractive.How about Sutters Mills 1849 early
days of the Calif gold rush.
When I first came to the US people asked me why I was here,amongst my
smart arse remarks was I came to educate you colonials, well it's not
working,you don't seem able to learn, so I suppose I just shut my shop
and go home again.No I'm not from the UK or Canada or Australia,some
place far more civilized.
sparky
>
> - Show quoted text -
Why do your posts make you sound so un-civilized and barbaric.
Michael A. Terrell
How about all the planes that were transfered to Russian pilots at
Ft. Greely, Ak.?
--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.
Michael A. Terrell
Just Me wrote:
>
> OK so I got a specific date wrong,I apologize for my ignorance,as you
> obviously missed the point it was more to point out the lawlessness
> that you seem to find so attractive.How about Sutters Mills 1849 early
> days of the Calif gold rush.
> When I first came to the US people asked me why I was here,amongst my
> smart arse remarks was I came to educate you colonials, well it's not
> working,you don't seem able to learn, so I suppose I just shut my shop
> and go home again.No I'm not from the UK or Canada or Australia,some
> place far more civilized.
Then go back, if they'll take you.
Strabo
> OK so I got a specific date wrong,I apologize for my ignorance,as you
> obviously missed the point it was more to point out the lawlessness
> that you seem to find so attractive.How about Sutters Mills 1849 early
> days of the Calif gold rush.
>
Which puts us in the California Republic. But let's address a
state of 'lawlessness.'
Where there is no formal law, local customs and values prevail.
If you happen to agree with local custom and values, you'll be
fine. If not, watch out.
When in Rome...
Good luck with your shop.
Ed Rinehart
>
> When I first came to the US people asked me why I was here,amongst my
> smart arse remarks was I came to educate you colonials, well it's not
> working,you don't seem able to learn, so I suppose I just shut my shop
> and go home again.No I'm not from the UK or Canada or Australia,some
> place far more civilized.
>
You should really do that.
In the words of Mark Twain, there are three thing I detest; profanity,
bigotry, and a god-damned Frenchman.
I can never understand why people leave one place for a better place and
want to bring the first place with them.
Edd R