Re: Nice little online fuel cost comparison calculator
Existential Angst
news:t3i6k5lklss6rc2p2...@4ax.com...
> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>
> ( disclaimer - not mine, I just happened to find it )
Ackshooly, a super-find! Very neat! Looks like the oil/electric cartels
got us by the balls, nice and tight..
Natural gas and coal were inneresting surprises.
Funny how fuknEdenPure ripoff heaters pop up right at the top -- google
ads....
Looks like I'll have to move you from my alt.hvac ADUA list (absolutely and
determinedly useless asshole), to my regular asshole list.... at least
temporarily.
I'm pretty sure you will make it back to the ADUA list, soon enough.
--
EA
>
>
> --
> Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
> www.theanimalrescuesite.com/
>
> Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
> 'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
> 'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
> HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
> Free demo online at www.pmilligan.net/palm/
> Free 'People finder' program now at www.pmilligan.net/finder.htm
Existential Angst
"Existential Angst" <UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b4352f4$0$22516$607e...@cv.net...
> <.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
> news:t3i6k5lklss6rc2p2...@4ax.com...
>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>>
>> ( disclaimer - not mine, I just happened to find it )
>
> Ackshooly, a super-find! Very neat! Looks like the oil/electric cartels
> got us by the balls, nice and tight..
> Natural gas and coal were inneresting surprises.
>
> Funny how fuknEdenPure ripoff heaters pop up right at the top -- google
> ads....
>
> Looks like I'll have to move you from my alt.hvac ADUA list (absolutely
> and determinedly useless asshole), to my regular asshole list.... at least
> temporarily.
> I'm pretty sure you will make it back to the ADUA list, soon enough.
Oh, just a note:
Filling in the dialogue box can be a little dicey.
For example, by the time your fukn utility company gets done with their
goddamm "delivery charge", "pipe charge", this/that/and the other charge,
you can easily DOUBLE the net cost per kwhr, and cost per therm.
If you do that for the electric and natural gas, on the original dialogue
box, you'll see that electric is 6x as expensive as coal, 2x as expensive as
oil, and almost 2x as expensive as natural gas -- which itself is now almost
as expensive as LP.
What we need now is a current price chart for all these fuels -- by state,
if poss.
--
EA
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote:
>>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>Oh, just a note:
>
>Filling in the dialogue box can be a little dicey.
>
> For example, by the time your fukn utility company gets done with their
>goddamm "delivery charge", "pipe charge", this/that/and the other charge,
>you can easily DOUBLE the net cost per kwhr
Just divide your total bill by the number of kWhrs. It's easy.
Wayne
Existential Angst
news:4mm6k5d88p911kiko...@4ax.com...
Brilliant!!
OK, so electricity is costing me (NYS) about 25c per kwhr, vs. their claimed
9.1c per kwhr.
Their claimed 63c per therm winds up costing me $2.35 per therm.
Sorta like Uhaul's $19.95 per day rental, which winds up costing $120/day --
and that was 10 years ago.
Luvin Merka more and more....
--
EA
>
> Wayne
Jim Elbrecht
Really-- National Grid here in NY bought a bunch of Niagara Mohawk
customers with some understanding with the "Public Service" commission
that they would hold KWh rates for so many months. Several new
fees appeared- and now we pay nearly 3 times the KWh rate some months.
[OTOH- the *real* rate has been only 1.5 times the stated rate a
couple times]
It isn't just the electric company, either. I get a couple extra
fees from the oil & LP Gas companies, too. But at least I don't get
a 'billing' fee like Time Warner charges-- or a 'lack of use' fee that
some credit cards are going to.
Jim
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
<UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote:
><.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>news:t3i6k5lklss6rc2p2...@4ax.com...
>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>>
>> ( disclaimer - not mine, I just happened to find it )
>
>Ackshooly, a super-find! Very neat! Looks like the oil/electric cartels
>got us by the balls, nice and tight..
>Natural gas and coal were inneresting surprises.
>
>Funny how fuknEdenPure ripoff heaters pop up right at the top -- google
>ads....
>
>Looks like I'll have to move you from my alt.hvac ADUA list (absolutely and
>determinedly useless asshole), to my regular asshole list.... at least
>temporarily.
>I'm pretty sure you will make it back to the ADUA list, soon enough.
( seeing as you snuck out of my kill filter via a link from
someone else ... )
I suppose this means you'll be in default on your minion dues
again this year ?
( dont' bother replying, i won't see it )
wmbjk...@citlink.net
<UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote:
><wmbjk...@citlink.net> wrote in message
>news:4mm6k5d88p911kiko...@4ax.com...
>> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:04:57 -0500, "Existential Angst"
>> <UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote:
>>
>>
>>>>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>>
>>>Oh, just a note:
>>>
>>>Filling in the dialogue box can be a little dicey.
>>>
>>> For example, by the time your fukn utility company gets done with their
>>>goddamm "delivery charge", "pipe charge", this/that/and the other charge,
>>>you can easily DOUBLE the net cost per kwhr
>>
>> Just divide your total bill by the number of kWhrs. It's easy.
>
>Brilliant!!
>OK, so electricity is costing me (NYS) about 25c per kwhr, vs. their claimed
>9.1c per kwhr.
PV is now as little as a buck per watt.
http://sunelec.com/index.php?main_page=phoenix It might be time for
you to make an investment so that you can laugh at price increases as
I've been doing for quite a while. It's liberating.
>Their claimed 63c per therm winds up costing me $2.35 per therm.
It's only gonna' get worse. Move south, and/or try some of this stuff
http://www.builditsolar.com/.
>Sorta like Uhaul's $19.95 per day rental, which winds up costing $120/day --
>and that was 10 years ago.
They use those marketing techniques because they work. The fact is
that we're addicted to silly hype, which is something else that's only
going to get worse.
>Luvin Merka more and more....
Look at it this way - most of the carny-type stuff is cooked up by
feeble-minded marketers in order to fool the even more feeble-minded.
It's almost always dead-easy to work around. For example, all of the
price versus quantity trickery that grocery stores try on shoppers is
easily defeated by a calculator you can get at the dollar store. Or
you can use the one built into your free cellphone that costs $99.95
per month for unlimited service that's actually quite limited. :-)
Wayne
Charlie
"Existential Angst" <UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b4352f4$0$22516$607e...@cv.net...
> news:t3i6k5lklss6rc2p2...@4ax.com...
>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>>
>> ( disclaimer - not mine, I just happened to find it )
>
> Ackshooly, a super-find! Very neat! Looks like the oil/electric cartels
> got us by the balls, nice and tight..
> Natural gas and coal were inneresting surprises.
>
This is sort of a useless chart. What you really want to know is something
like: How does the cost of 1000 BTUs compare for coal vs wood pellets? The
cost per ton and an efficiency number is meaningless.
Charlie
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
The calcs can be approached from a large number of different
angles. This particular free tool shows one way. If you don't like
it, I'm sure they'll refund your money.
David
"Charlie" <le...@thestation.com> wrote in message
news:hhvq2d$e1o$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I agree! How about something like this:
100,000 BTU =
0.888 Gal. E85 gasoline;
0.77 Gal. heating oil;
1.76 Gal. Methanol;
29.33 KWh electricity;
~100 cubic feet natural gas;
etc. (for wood, coal, ...)
David
David
"David" <som...@somewhere.com> wrote in message
news:hhvr76$lvu$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
I made an error in the table above. The first number should
be for E15 (15% methanol, 85% gasoline.)
David
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
Which tells us NOTHING about costs,and allows for NO 'what if'
cases of efficiency.
If you want the mere watt / BTU equivalents, that's easily
looked up online.
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
BTW, - did you plan on heating a home with E85, or Methanol ?
Mark
>
> This is sort of a useless chart. What you really want to know is something
> like: How does the cost of 1000 BTUs compare for coal vs wood pellets? The
> cost per ton and an efficiency number is meaningless.
>
> Charlie
Did you click the calculate button???
Mark
terry
wrote:
> <wmbjkREM...@citlink.net> wrote in message
>
> news:4mm6k5d88p911kiko...@4ax.com...
>
> > On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:04:57 -0500, "Existential Angst"
>
> >>>>http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_compariso...
>
> >>Oh, just a note:
>
> >>Filling in the dialogue box can be a little dicey.
>
> >> For example, by the time your fukn utility company gets done with their
> >>goddamm "delivery charge", "pipe charge", this/that/and the other charge,
> >>you can easily DOUBLE the net cost per kwhr
>
> > Just divide your total bill by the number of kWhrs. It's easy.
>
> Brilliant!!
> OK, so electricity is costing me (NYS) about 25c per kwhr, vs. their claimed
> 9.1c per kwhr.
>
> Their claimed 63c per therm winds up costing me $2.35 per therm.
>
> Sorta like Uhaul's $19.95 per day rental, which winds up costing $120/day --
> and that was 10 years ago.
>
> Luvin Merka more and more....
> --
> EA
>
>
>
>
>
>
> - Show quoted text -
Yup; very excellent 'extra charges' points made by various posters.
Ours (typically) works out to just slightly over 10 cents (Canadian)
per kilowatt hour, all charges in. We are in fairly lightly populated
zone. Our house is all electric; built in 1970.
Our 'other' charges include a per month account fee of around $16.
Also HST. That's a combined federal and provincial government sales
tax on the total foregoing amount. HST is also levied on most things
except food and a few other categories.
Since the Can. dollar is currently worth about 0.95 of the US, we are
therefore paying about 9.6 cents US, per kilowatt hour for domestic
electrcity. There's no cheap rates or night time discounts as in some
countries such as the UK. (Run your clothes dryer on timer at 2.00 AM;
eh?)
About 96% of our hydro, in next few to be 100%, is generated by water
power (hydro).
Hydro power from the existing or Upper Churchill is already provided
and sold to the North Eastern USA via Quebec Hydro. It does as we say
here; 'Help to power New York'! Quebec hydro pays a very low cost per
kilowatt hour to the owners of the water resources that power the
generation. Somewhere it is said around 0.4 cents per kilowatt hour
and that takes into account also that the original capital cost of the
generating facility itself was paid off long ago.
In the next few years this part of North America will be licensing the
building and generating significant additional hydro power capacity at
the large Lower Churchill project in Labrador. Provided another way
can be found of transporting the new source of hydro power to the
North Eastern US it appears that ecologically friendly and economical
electricity could be provided to North American consumers, both
Canadian and US, in the eastern areas of both countries, at a very
reasonable rates. Within next ten years or less.
Maybe posters should talk to their US legislators about this; there
will certainly economics of scale if both the fewer number of
customers in Atlantic Canada and the clean power requirements of the
adjacent US states customers can be served cooperatively!
BTW. Thanks for the tip about disused credit card charges!
Just called our CC and they advised that if there was a positive
balance and no activity on the card for 12 months they would use up
that positive balance with a per annum. charge of $10!
co_f...@yahoo.com
Banks have done this for years. At least here in Oregon. I remember
programming that feature into savings account programs back in the
1970's. They used to let inactive accounts lay dormant for years and
years. Then the State got wise and demanded the balance be sent to
them. The bank said to hell with the state, we will take it. If the
account owner ever wanted his money back, the bank would refund it, of
course, but most owners never were found.
I have to wonder how anyone would have a positive balance on their CC.
Suppose it's possible due to overpayment and such.
Paul
Charlie
<.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:ter6k5lcplqrcsqah...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 11:40:41 -0500, "Charlie" <le...@thestation.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Existential Angst" <UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
>>news:4b4352f4$0$22516$607e...@cv.net...
>>> <.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>>> news:t3i6k5lklss6rc2p2...@4ax.com...
>>>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>>>>
>>>> ( disclaimer - not mine, I just happened to find it )
>>>
>>> Ackshooly, a super-find! Very neat! Looks like the oil/electric
>>> cartels
>>> got us by the balls, nice and tight..
>>> Natural gas and coal were inneresting surprises.
>>>
>>
>>This is sort of a useless chart. What you really want to know is something
>>like: How does the cost of 1000 BTUs compare for coal vs wood pellets?
>>The
>>cost per ton and an efficiency number is meaningless.
>>
>>Charlie
>>
>
> The calcs can be approached from a large number of different
> angles. This particular free tool shows one way. If you don't like
> it, I'm sure they'll refund your money.
>
Charlie
<.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:eis6k51filc3afuk3...@4ax.com...
That makes a lot of sense. Not!
Charlie
"Mark" <mako...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:e35e4aae-b447-4c3c...@f6g2000vbp.googlegroups.com...
Mark
Nope, I didn't scroll down the page that far.
Thanks for the pointer
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
wrote:
You're not exactly going to win any Brightness Awards in the
Candelabra contest, are you ?
I mean, you've been bitching and moaning about the free
calculator, and you didn't even fucking figure out it was a
calculator ?
What did you figure the word 'calculator' in the subject line
was referring to ?
I'm guessing you're reading this in rec.crafts.metalworking,
where you're a piece of bar stock ?
cl...@snyder.on.ca
wrote:
>
Not totally useless but it does require a bit of further work to get
the bare info out of it. They DO give a comparison based on a common
(need I say it - basically the same with different heat) house showing
what the costs would be - which IS more "usefull" than a simple cost
per BTU.
If you want to directly compare the raw cost per BTU, simply make the
efficiency the same on each fuel. It is, after all - a "comparison"
chart.
Existential Angst
news:88o6k5l5qsl5rkj09...@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 09:55:39 -0500, "Existential Angst"
> <UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>><.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>>news:t3i6k5lklss6rc2p2...@4ax.com...
>>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>>>
>>> ( disclaimer - not mine, I just happened to find it )
>>
>>Ackshooly, a super-find! Very neat! Looks like the oil/electric cartels
>>got us by the balls, nice and tight..
>>Natural gas and coal were inneresting surprises.
>>
>>Funny how fuknEdenPure ripoff heaters pop up right at the top -- google
>>ads....
>>
>>Looks like I'll have to move you from my alt.hvac ADUA list (absolutely
>>and
>>determinedly useless asshole), to my regular asshole list.... at least
>>temporarily.
>>I'm pretty sure you will make it back to the ADUA list, soon enough.
>
> ( seeing as you snuck out of my kill filter via a link from
> someone else ... )
>
> I suppose this means you'll be in default on your minion dues
> again this year ?
>
> ( dont' bother replying, i won't see it )
Isn't it amazing:
With two simple crossposts, more intelligent people responded to this
very inneresting topic (none of them, afaict, from alt.hvac) than in the
HISTORY of alt.hvac alone.
And that includes YOU, Paul.
Even tho you are the OP, I'm pretty sure the value of your post escapes even
you, as you basically have said nothing of value in this whole effing
thread.
But, thanks for the link, anyway. Even character-disordered idiots get
lucky, I spose. AND you like animals -- so I spose you do have some
purpose....
--
EA
Existential Angst
news:ovn6k554vfv1n1uop...@4ax.com...
Very true, and you should thusly pay respectful tribute to King Con, aka
Tony Little.
He sold millions of 25c ab isolators
1. for $40 -- holy shit..... that's a markup of like 16,000 percent????
That alone should win him a 20 story mausoleum.
2a. for something that can't be (visibly) developed by exercise anyway
(abs)
2b. even if they could be visibly developed by exercise, this POS could not
possibly do this.
3. all whilst he himself was so pudgy (and of course abless) that he had to
wear a spandex body suit to hold it all in.
Tonly Little, with that one product and his marketing campaign, changed the
face of marketing, changed how the powers-dat-be view the Great American
Pubic. He basically showed the world that a company can do ANYTHING, and
be held utterly unaccountable -- except molesting kids or poisoning Coke or
Tylenol.
With recent events being a vivid and stinging testimony to this. And,
funnier still, with all the brouhaha, and indignation, they STILL got away
with it!!!
Salty Fog and Shitty Two et al, of course, are going to want all kinds of
citations and documentations, but I'll just defer until my new book and
video come out:
You Too Can SYOD to a Ripped Ab-ed Healthier and Wealthier
You.
I promise I'll give them free signed copies. I'm sure they will demonstrate
a precocious natural talent.
And you are very right: It *is* going to get much worse, with the
Mis-Information SuperHighway paving the way, ever fueling that "addiction to
hype".
Remember: False Facts are now truer than True Facts.
Because allure is now a commodity unto itself.
--
EA
>
> Wayne
Suka Midak
"Existential Angst" <UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
news:4b4352f4$0$22516$607e...@cv.net...
> news:t3i6k5lklss6rc2p2...@4ax.com...
>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>>
>> ( disclaimer - not mine, I just happened to find it )
>
> Ackshooly, a super-find! Very neat! Looks like the oil/electric cartels
> got us by the balls, nice and tight..
> Natural gas and coal were inneresting surprises.
>
> Funny how fuknEdenPure ripoff heaters pop up right at the top -- google
> ads....
>
> Looks like I'll have to move you from my alt.hvac ADUA list (absolutely
> and determinedly useless asshole), to my regular asshole list.... at least
> temporarily.
> I'm pretty sure you will make it back to the ADUA list, soon enough.
>
> --
> EA
Would you two please get a room?
Noon-Air
<.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
news:4ls6k59j03pfbqm0d...@4ax.com...
Nope, just getting toasty :-)
Tony
> On Jan 5, 9:37 am, terry <tsanf...@nf.sympatico.ca> wrote:
>> On Jan 5, 12:41 pm, "Existential Angst" <UNfit...@UNoptonline.net>
>> wrote:
>>
>>
>> BTW. Thanks for the tip about disused credit card charges!
>> Just called our CC and they advised that if there was a positive
>> balance and no activity on the card for 12 months they would use up
>> that positive balance with a per annum. charge of $10!
>
> I have to wonder how anyone would have a positive balance on their CC.
> Suppose it's possible due to overpayment and such.
A lot of credit cards will not accept an overpayment, but if you pay the
bill in full, then return something you will have a positive balance.
Tony
> Tony <tony....@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> -snip-
>> For my electric I take the total bill and divide it by the kwh's to get
>> no hidden costs price. The great TVA! Last bill was about 8 cents/kwh.
>
> You suck.
Ha ha!
> The TVA is the first thing that pops into my mind when I hear the
> nay-sayers say the "Gov't can't get nothin' right." The Eisenhower
> interstate system is #2.
>
> Jim
It is sad though that there aren't multitudes of examples.
Tony
> "Existential Angst" <UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote in message
> news:4b4352f4$0$22516$607e...@cv.net...
>> <.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com> wrote in message
>> news:t3i6k5lklss6rc2p2...@4ax.com...
>>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>>>
>>> ( disclaimer - not mine, I just happened to find it )
>> Ackshooly, a super-find! Very neat! Looks like the oil/electric cartels
>> got us by the balls, nice and tight..
>> Natural gas and coal were inneresting surprises.
>>
>> ads....
>>
>> Looks like I'll have to move you from my alt.hvac ADUA list (absolutely
>> and determinedly useless asshole), to my regular asshole list.... at least
>> temporarily.
>> I'm pretty sure you will make it back to the ADUA list, soon enough.
>
>
> Filling in the dialogue box can be a little dicey.
>
> For example, by the time your fukn utility company gets done with their
> goddamm "delivery charge", "pipe charge", this/that/and the other charge,
Jim Elbrecht
-snip-
>For my electric I take the total bill and divide it by the kwh's to get
>no hidden costs price. The great TVA! Last bill was about 8 cents/kwh.
You suck.
.p.jm.@see_my_sig_for_address.com
E Z Peaces
> On Tue, 5 Jan 2010 10:04:57 -0500, "Existential Angst"
> <UNfi...@UNoptonline.net> wrote:
>
>
>>>> http://www.hearth.com/econtent/index.php/articles/fuel_cost_comparison_calculator/
>
>>
>> Filling in the dialogue box can be a little dicey.
>>
>> For example, by the time your fukn utility company gets done with their
>> goddamm "delivery charge", "pipe charge", this/that/and the other charge,
>
> Just divide your total bill by the number of kWhrs. It's easy.
>
That wouldn't tell you the cost of using more or less electricity. What
if a farmer had the power company install a line and meter for his hay
barn? Some months his bill for the barn would be 50 cents and some
months nothing. Most companies start with a monthly service charge. In
addition, the rate structure may be regressive.
Suppose a homeowner's bill says $30 for a month when he used 100kWh.
That would appear to be 30 cents per kWh. If there are no adjustments
from month to month and the next month he is billed $30.07 for 101kWh,
he can see that in fact he's paying only 7 cents per kWh and a $23
service charge.
That would make a big difference in deciding whether to switch to
electric heat. To be more precise, he would have to consider whether
there were price breaks as monthly usage increased. Rate schedules are
published.
Existential Angst
news:hi31au$hqq$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
IOW, the "apparent' cost per kwhr will change with usage.
Very true, but still the simple over-all division suggested above is a very
good seat-of-the-pants way to see how we are, well, being kicked in sed seat
of the pants.
Ultimately, you could separate the fixed charges from the variable charges
to get a better sense of true kwhr charges, but the simple division works
for me.
If you caught my earlier post, 63c gas prices wound up being over $2, and 9c
electric rates wound up over 24c, or thereabouts -- the $19.95 U-haul truck
rental scam, all over again. And again. And again....
--
EA