Creating tool paths from DXF files.
Abrasha
tool paths from DXF files to machine a number of parts. Someone suggested I try
in a.m.c.
I posted the same question in a.m.c. A number of people there were kind enough
to respond, both in the news group and in private email. I received a number of
suggestions of what to do and what not to do. One person wrote in a private
email: "Let's start with the inescapable conclusion that what you propose is
impossible." Another ended up writing me insulting letters and started
attacking me in his posts.
About half a dozen people asked me to send me the files in question and promised
me to "take a look at it, and get back to me" I never heard from any one of
those people after I sent them the files in question. A few of these people
make it their business to do custom machining for other people. Not one
responded after I had sent them the requested files.
Another group started tearing into each other in the thread "Is Mastercam the
answer for me.", that had developed.
On January 23, when I was about ready to give up, I received an email from Mark
Nagy of "Pneu Design" (http://www.drumfillers.net/index.htm)in Shingle Springs,
CA. We talked on the phone; he asked me to send him the files so he could take
a look at it. He called me a few days later, to tell me that he had machined
the prototype in stainless steel and aluminum, and that he would send them to
me. When I opened the box, out came the parts exactly as I had intended them.
They were perfect! A couple of days later, he sent me another identical
prototype in copper.
To make a long story short, Mark machined my entire chess set for me, in record
time and as good as I could have possibly hoped for. I received the entire set
from him on March 4, just a little over 4 weeks after we had started working
together on this. BTW, this included machining prototypes of all the parts, and
changing the proportions of two of the parts.
Yesterday, I completed finishing the surfaces of all the chess pieces, which
were machined out of 316 Stainless Steel and 655 Silicon Bronze. Take a look,
this is what it looks like now:
http://www.abrasha.com/misc/chess_set_before_patina.htm
The set is not quite finished yet. Monday, the Bronze pieces will get a patina,
and than all that is left to do, is glue leather protective pads to the bottoms
of the pieces. I am still working on a board.
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
Abrasha
"Pneu Design" (http://www.drumfillers.net/index.htm) in Shingle Springs, CA.
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
jim rozen
>http://www.abrasha.com/misc/chess_set_before_patina.htm
Quite lovely. But everyone knows that
rooks have to have some kind of sally-ports
at the top, and further that knights cannot
be completely cylindrically symmetric! :^)
Nice of you to give favorable press to the
one person who could do the deed, where
all else failed. Thanks for the feedback.
Jim
===================================
please reply to:
JRR(zero) at watson dot ibm dot com
===================================
Charlie Gary
"Abrasha" <abr...@abrasha.com> wrote in message
news:3E7CB974...@abrasha.com...
<<Snip>>
>
> Abrasha
> http://www.abrasha.com
It's unfortunate the amount of bullshit people sling around here, but if you
hang around long enough you'll learn who's real and who full of it. It's
amazing how some will check their manners at the door because the people
they're trashing aren't within reach. Don't let it get you too far down,
because you got your chess set, and others didn't get the work.
--
Later,
Charlie
fix the e-mail address and it will get to me
John Sullivan
patina,
> and than all that is left to do, is glue leather protective pads to the
bottoms
> of the pieces. I am still working on a board.
>
> Abrasha
> http://www.abrasha.com
Too bad you had to put up with all the BS from others, but the parts do look
very nice. It seems that this group does have quite a few who tend to have
pretty inflated egos; i.e. they say it can't be done, therefore let's not
even try.
--
John Sullivan
Jamlab Enterprises
http://jamlab.home.att.net
Gary H. Lucas
Abrasha,
It's good to see you got your project done, and it looks very nice. I
believe it took a long time because you were told over and over again you
were trying to do it the hard way. The many professionals here recognize
the hard way when they see it, that's why they are pros. They can't make
money working the hard way on one off type jobs. So they dropped it. Some
people get joy out of the simple act of doing things the hard way, rowing
across the ocean rather than take a 747. That's fine, but look where you
are now. You have one vendor that can do the work the way you want to do
it, from a vast array of vendors who COULD do you work if you simply used
the right tools. This isn't bashing, it is just my opinion, yours is
different.
Gary H. Lucas
Andrew Mawson
Creating tool paths from DXF files though is not as straightforward as some
of the software vendors suggest, without throwing an awful lot of money at
it.I've just been looking at various packages before parting with my cash to
use on a small mill and a lathe:
TurboCADCAM demo - may be me, but it's a nightmare to drive.
The Visual Mill V4 demo says my 2" cube parts are too small to handle
Ace Converter doesn't want to handle solid parts
Gcode200 (GcodeV2696) works but only for 2 1/2 D objects
I hear good things about Dolphin but haven't yet seen a demo
I would be interested to hear what people are using (and what the approx
price tag is !)
Andrew Mawson
Bromley,
Kent,
UK
alv...@xx.com
> because the people they're trashing aren't within reach.
I've read that -many- times and this is my first time to respond.
My son Jeff has met many face to face after getting to know them
on newsgroups or IRC. Guess what, they're the same! No kidding.
Thoughtful, sharing individuals are just that, whether over the
internet or in person. Why would you think otherwise? Wouldn't?
Right? :)
But it's the same with hot-heads and smart-asses, they like being
who they are or maybe can't help it, so why would you think they'd
be different in person? You gonna beat them into submission? :/
Alvin in AZ (the dumbest guy on rcm)
Charlie Gary
<alv...@XX.com> wrote in message news:b5im8u$ro8$1...@reader2.panix.com...
> > It's amazing how some will check their manners at the door
> > because the people they're trashing aren't within reach.
> > Charlie
>
> I've read that -many- times and this is my first time to respond.
>
> My son Jeff has met many face to face after getting to know them
> on newsgroups or IRC. Guess what, they're the same! No kidding.
>
> Thoughtful, sharing individuals are just that, whether over the
> internet or in person. Why would you think otherwise? Wouldn't?
> Right? :)
>
Alvin, you found my weakness- too often I give the benefit of the doubt. <g>
> But it's the same with hot-heads and smart-asses, they like being
> who they are or maybe can't help it, so why would you think they'd
> be different in person? You gonna beat them into submission? :/
>
Na, I'll just let them remove all doubt for me. The beating is done by
others at trade shows.
doofus
> One person wrote in a private
> email: "Let's start with the inescapable conclusion that what you propose is
> impossible." Another ended up writing me insulting letters and started
> attacking me in his posts.
To be fair, Mr Yuppy Jeweler <g> what you _said_ you wanted
to do _is_ impossible. People _did_ offer to discuss what
you _really_ wanted to do, but your skin is too thin to accept
the fact that you don't know doodly about machining. Perhaps
some of the "insults" broke through your know-it-all exterior
enough so that you could actually discuss the problem a month
later with some degree of understanding.
Personally, while you may take it as a personal insult, most
of us who've lived here all our lives really are NOT all that
pleased with the influx of yuppy jewelers. If the shoe fits,
I guess you can put it on ... but you also declined to take
twenty minutes out of your busy yuppy day to come by and see
how and what dxf files really are and how a cnc machine is
programmed and run. So pfuuie to your sour grapes, and I'm
happy you got your yuppy chess set done. Just for fun, why
don't you tell us what you plan to sell that chess set for,
eh ? Maybe _that_ is the conflict here ?
John Stevenson
I use Dolphin and I would say that 90 percent of my work comes in via email
as DXF files.
I must admit a lot of it is simple shapes and patterns of drilled holes.
A lot of programs allow you to import as a DXF file into their CAD module,
perhaps even all do. You then have to usually define the various toolpaths
and patterns in the CAD and then pass this to the CAM side to select tools,
speeds, feeds etc and finally the type of operation prior to generating the
G code.
About a year ago Dolphin contacted me and asked just what I used the
program for and I explained about the amount of DXF files coming in.
Within a month they had released a free upgrade that allows you to bring
the DXF file direct into the CAM side without having to mess with
generating toolpaths etc.
Obviously only for simple work as it can only recognise patterns and non
overlapping profiles.
It automatically named the profiles and patterns as unique names that the
CAM side can handle.
Certainly has save me some work.
---
Regards
John Stevenson
Nottingham, England
John Stevenson
>Abrasha <abr...@abrasha.com> wrote in message news:<3E7CB974...@abrasha.com>...
>
>> One person wrote in a private
>> email: "Let's start with the inescapable conclusion that what you propose is
>> impossible." Another ended up writing me insulting letters and started
>> attacking me in his posts.
>
>
>To be fair, Mr Yuppy Jeweler <g> what you _said_ you wanted
>to do _is_ impossible. People _did_ offer to discuss what
>you _really_ wanted to do, but your skin is too thin to accept
>the fact that you don't know doodly about machining. Perhaps
>some of the "insults" broke through your know-it-all exterior
>enough so that you could actually discuss the problem a month
>later with some degree of understanding.
>
Hey Doofus,
I take it you aren't too keen on flashy gizmo's and trinkets??
Personally I think statements out to be more permanent and stand out more
than a silly bit of twisted wire that looks like something that should have
gone on 110v single phase instead of 440v 3 phase.
Tattoo's are mean. Do you reckon that a big tattoo across the upper back
saying something like "Support Bethlehem Steel - scrap a Harley" would go
down well in a biker bar??
jim rozen
says...
>... why
>don't you tell us what you plan to sell that chess set for,
>eh ? Maybe _that_ is the conflict here ?
Good point. God forbid anyone
should ever turn a profit on
something.
jdyer1
Unfortunately, the bloated egos that frequent this group(alt machines.cnc)
are usually too busy posturing and finger pointing
to be of any value, to a forum that has great potential to promote and
entice new ideas into the trade. This
seems to mirror the attitude of the most of the shops I've worked in over
the years. Arrogant bloated egos
that supress innovation and efficiency "where the chips hit the pan". From
my perspective, ass kissing and
fingerpointing seem to be a more effective strategy for advancement around
the shop. When you get these
clowns down to specifics, these hacks are full of nothing. I believe this
attitude has done more damage to the business
than foreign competition or school systems that are scrapping machine shop
training programs.
Stand and deliver that is the American Way!
Abrasha
>
> In article <3E7CB974...@abrasha.com>, Abrasha says...
>
> >http://www.abrasha.com/misc/chess_set_before_patina.htm
>
> Quite lovely. But everyone knows that
> rooks have to have some kind of sally-ports
> at the top, and further that knights cannot
> be completely cylindrically symmetric! :^)
>
"Everyone knows"? Really? Could you find this in any rule book anywhere? I
could not. If you have some information that actually states this in writing I
would very much like to see it. I am not being sarcastic. As far as I know,
there are no such "requirements" as you state for the rook and knight. Or any
other pieces.
Being a purist, almost to a fault, when I started this project I did fairly
extensive research and contacted both the US Chess Federation
(http://www.uschess.org/news/press/) and the World Chess Federation
(http://www.fide.com/default.asp?curpage=1&x=0.8449976) to find out the official
guidelines as to how chess pieces are required to look. It turns out that there
are some guidelines, and these guidelines are in fact very limited, almost
nonexistent.
The only requirement about the look for chess pieces used in international
tournaments, is that both players agree on the chess pieces used. Take a look
at the handbook of the World Chess Federation at
http://www.fide.com/official/handbook.asp?level=C02 If they wanted to, they
could play with a Bart Simpson set.
From World Chess Federation Handbook:
2.2 Height, weight, proportions
The King's height should be 8.5 to 10.5 cm. The diameter of the King's base
should measure 40 to 50% of its height.
The size of the other pieces should be proportionate to their height and form;
other elements such as stability, aesthetic considerations etc., may also be
taken into account.
2.3 Form, style of make
Recommended for use in FIDE competitions are those types of chess sets and
equipment, which have already been used in Men's Olympiads, interzonal
tournaments, candidates' matches and tournaments, and world championship
matches.
The pieces should be shaped so as to be clearly distinguishable from one
another. In particular the top of the King should distinctly differ from that of
the Queen. The top of the Bishop may bear a notch or be of a special colour
clearly distinguishing it from that of the Pawn."
About the only strict requirement for tournament chess sets, is the size of the
King. Only the size, not the design. Take a look at
http://www.chessusa.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?page=guidelinep.html#tourny
"Tournament Sizing Standards"
The sizing of pieces to a board is mostly a matter of personal taste.
Tournament play is the exception to this, since very clear specifications are
given by the governing bodies as to the specific sizes of pieces and boards. For
example, the US Chess Federation, the governing body for chess in the United
States has specific "Equipment Standards" outlined in their rules. For pieces
they specify a King that measures 3 3/8" to 4 1/2" with a base diameter of
40-50% of the height.
The height of my King is 3.75" and the base diameter is 1.5"
Now, the "everyone knows" you are talking about, relates to the well know
"Staunton Pattern" chess set, that is widely regarded as the standard chess
set. And is the one set pattern most commonly used in all chess tournaments.
Here is some interesting reading about that.
http://www.chessusa.com/cgi-bin/page.cgi?page=staunton.html
My chess set is actually very closely based on the original 1849 Staunton
Pattern set, as fabricated by John Jacues of London, and the pattern can be
clearly recognized in all the pieces. Take a look at
http://www.abrasha.com/misc/both_kings.htm
If you can't see it, let me know, and I will give you a hint.
> Nice of you to give favorable press to the
> one person who could do the deed, where
> all else failed. Thanks for the feedback.
>
> Jim
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
Abrasha
>
> Abrasha,
> It's good to see you got your project done, and it looks very nice. I
> believe it took a long time because you were told over and over again you
> were trying to do it the hard way.
Actually, I was trying to do it the easy way, and it turns out, that's exactly
what I did.
> The many professionals here recognize
> the hard way when they see it, that's why they are pros.
With all due respect, I think the only pro I encountered was the person who
ended up machining my parts. It turns out, that all the others who
"contributed" to my threads seem to be just silly men sitting in front of their
PC's trying to have a social life. Give me a break, professionals do not find
the time to sit at their PC day after day for countless hours hacking away at
each other to prove that they are "right". Some of these so called
"professionals" even had the temerity to attack me for what I was trying to
accomplish. At the time I answered that I was not interested in these barrages,
because I was too focused on reaching my stated goal.
> They can't make
> money working the hard way on one off type jobs. So they dropped it.
I wonder if they can make money, period. One of the regular posters constantly
blames others for his inability to make a decent living. Very mature. "So they
dropped it"? They never even took a look at it, is more likely.
> Some
> people get joy out of the simple act of doing things the hard way, rowing
> across the ocean rather than take a 747. That's fine, but look where you
> are now.
Well, where am I now? You tell me.
> You have one vendor that can do the work the way you want to do
> it, from a vast array of vendors who COULD do you work if you simply used
> the right tools.
I did use the right tools. I turned out that my approach was a piece of cake.
Every professional here, just did not see it that way. They were just too
attached to their opinions, their "knowledge", and their "right tools". "Vast
array ... who COULD"? I challenge you to come up with one, from this news
group, where I came to look for one. After all, this is a CNC news group is it
not?
> This isn't bashing, it is just my opinion, yours is
> different.
Rather worthless opinion if you ask me. The job is done. I do wonder what your
credentials are.
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
David L Peterson
<and...@mawson.org.uk> wrote:
I've been messing with a home built CNC plasma cutter. I ran into the
same problems. I never did find any good (cheap) conversion software
that was simple, flexable, and gave me what I needed (guess you'd call
it 2-1/2D. I ended upwriting my own conversion program in Qbasic.
I've still got quite a few bugs to work out, but I have it working
well enough to let me cut out parts. So far my biggest problems are
in program size (for simplicity I used one big array for the data,
Qbasic is rather limited in array size), and some bugs in the kerf
compensation routine. I'd be curious to see if anyone found anything
I missed.
Now that I've cut my teeth on the procedure I'm considering
rewriting it in Visual Basic or C++, we'll see what the future brings.
Dave
jim rozen
>Now, the "everyone knows" you are talking about, relates to the well know
>"Staunton Pattern" chess set, that is widely regarded as the standard chess
>set.
No no. What I mean is, the knight
is supposed to look like a horsey.
And the rook is supposed to look
like a castle.
As I said, everyone knows *that*.
precisionmachinist
> "Gary H. Lucas" wrote:
>
>
> > Abrasha,
> > It's good to see you got your project done, and it looks very nice. I
> > believe it took a long time because you were told over and over again
you
> > were trying to do it the hard way.
>
>
> Actually, I was trying to do it the easy way, and it turns out, that's
exactly
> what I did.
>
Did you get five quotes for the work and then go with the lowest and most
capable one?
>
> > The many professionals here recognize
> > the hard way when they see it, that's why they are pros.
>
>
> With all due respect, I think the only pro I encountered was the person
who
> ended up machining my parts. It turns out, that all the others who
> "contributed" to my threads seem to be just silly men sitting in front of
their
> PC's trying to have a social life. Give me a break, professionals do not
find
> the time to sit at their PC day after day for countless hours hacking away
at
> each other to prove that they are "right". Some of these so called
> "professionals" even had the temerity to attack me for what I was trying
to
> accomplish. At the time I answered that I was not interested in these
barrages,
> because I was too focused on reaching my stated goal.
>
>
> > They can't make
> > money working the hard way on one off type jobs. So they dropped it.
>
>
> I wonder if they can make money, period. One of the regular posters
constantly
> blames others for his inability to make a decent living. Very mature.
"So they
> dropped it"? They never even took a look at it, is more likely.
>
That was not me.....I spent about three hours smoothing out your curves
because the geometry had abrupt changes that are not machinable unless one
is using a tool with zero cutting nose radius----A physical
impossibility.......And the curves did not intersect either...but rather
crossed over each other before ending....Did you create the .dxf by scanning
a hand drawn sketch?
Then I got busy with customers that had requested *quotes* and on
acceptance, *placed* orders.....
You failed to keep in contact with me. So I dropped it. After all, I wasnt
getting paid and there *was* and still *is* profitable work needs to be
done......
>
> > Some
> > people get joy out of the simple act of doing things the hard way,
rowing
> > across the ocean rather than take a 747. That's fine, but look where
you
> > are now.
>
>
> Well, where am I now? You tell me.
>
Likely a few dollars richer, at someone else's loss......
Will he be making more items for you a year from now or will he bite the
bullet?
Oh wait, maybe he is in it for fun?.......There's an old retired fellow up
the road makes cedar flower pots and then sells them for less than the
materials cost...........
>
> > You have one vendor that can do the work the way you want to do
> > it, from a vast array of vendors who COULD do you work if you simply
used
> > the right tools.
>
>
> I did use the right tools. I turned out that my approach was a piece of
cake.
> Every professional here, just did not see it that way. They were just too
> attached to their opinions, their "knowledge", and their "right tools".
"Vast
> array ... who COULD"? I challenge you to come up with one, from this news
> group, where I came to look for one. After all, this is a CNC news group
is it
> not?
>
Many if not most at amc *could* do it-----How much money in it?
>
> > This isn't bashing, it is just my opinion, yours is
> > different.
>
>
> Rather worthless opinion if you ask me. The job is done. I do wonder
what your
> credentials are.
>
If you ask my opinion, it was a rather worthless piece of work.....has to
rate right up there with the Crown Jewells....Remember---opinions are like
assholes, everybody has one......
Glad it is done----Let us know when it sells, and for how much----And what
*you* paid to have the parts made.
Maybe *I* should design a chess set----Send you some files.... I could mill
them on a 5 axis tool.......
Could you read them? RS 274D......
Should be a piece of cake.......
--
SVL
Abrasha
>
> In article <3E7E63D1...@abrasha.com>, Abrasha says...
>
> >Now, the "everyone knows" you are talking about, relates to the well know
> >"Staunton Pattern" chess set, that is widely regarded as the standard chess
> >set.
>
> No no. What I mean is, the knight
> is supposed to look like a horsey.
>
> And the rook is supposed to look
> like a castle.
>
> As I said, everyone knows *that*.
>
> Jim
>
Well, not everyone "knows" that. And even if one does, it is not a
requirement. Yet, both the horsey and the castle are visible in my set, it just
not all that obvious. Did you take a look at the photo with the two kings on my
site?
Also take a look at these sets by Karim Rashid,
http://store4.yimg.com/I/lshop_1733_4782702
Or the famous Bauhaus set by Josef Hartwig, designed in 1923
http://www.artsmia.org/modernism/image_school.cfm?oid=34 and/or
http://www.artsmia.org/modernism/show_related.cfm?rid=117&object_style=Bauhaus
This set was designed in such a way, that the shape of the pieces represent the
way they are allowed to move on the board. Very much the Bauhaus ideal of "Form
follows Function" See this page for that.
http://www.knauthe.com/E/chess/11function.htm
And how about this one?
http://www.iamanangelchaser.com/products/chessmen/chessmen.html (Make sure to
scroll all the way down to the bottom of the page)
And especially here: http://www.zelazny.com/chess_fr.html
Salt & Pepper set, Nail Polish set, Coke vs Pepsi set, and dozens more. Check
out the galleries on this site. Not many horseys and castles. Many good chess
sets.
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
Carl Gundel
Have you considered Liberty BASIC? It doesn't have the sort of array
size limitations QBasic does, and it makes a comfortable step up to
Windows programming from QBasic. There's also a free trial you can
download.
-Carl Gundel, author of Liberty BASIC
http://www.libertybasic.com
Charlie Gary
"doofus" <ha...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
news:c8107abc.03032...@posting.google.com...
How many sides does this story have? :-)
Bob Edwards
>"Gary H. Lucas" wrote:
>
>>
>> Abrasha,
>> It's good to see you got your project done, and it looks very nice. I
>> believe it took a long time because you were told over and over again you
>> were trying to do it the hard way.
>
><<snip>>
Abrasha:
Nice looking set. Did you do the modeling in TrueSpace? I'm a little
surprised at all the trouble you had finding someone to machine from
the .dxf files. A fellow classmate at Revere a couple years ago was
doing this for her MS thesis project at Stanford, seemingly without
any problems. Can't remember what CAM software she was using, but the
models were done in TrueSpace, lathed and milled on CNC machinery in
the Stanford shop. I am almost certain she was using dxf output from
Truespace.
Are you showing any of this set in the "chess pieces" show I saw
mentioned a couple months ago in Metalsmith?
Best regards,
Bob Edwards
Chromis Designs
Washington, DC
>
>Abrasha
>http://www.abrasha.com
doofus
>
> How many sides does this story have? :-)
>
Well, they're round parts, so you could say "one" and be
correct, or you could say, "infinite" and be equally correct.
Depends upon how you look at things :-)
doofus
He could also buy Personal APT for about $80 and have a language
that has thousands of manhours of development by the top people
in our aerospace and naval industries .... you can take a dxf in
Personal APT, alias it as a SHAPE, and use that directly as a
drive surface. Not that playing with Qbasic mightn't be fun, but ....
Uh-oh, website is gone, hope Bob D is okay ... anyway, there's
tons of copies on shareware sites.
Guido
>>don't you tell us what you plan to sell that chess set for,
>>eh ? Maybe _that_ is the conflict here ?
>
>
> How many sides does this story have? :-)
>
Hamie's just pissed at the amount of money Abrasha can get for washers.
Abrasha
>
> On Mon, 24 Mar 2003 02:11:21 GMT, Abrasha <abr...@abrasha.com> wrote:
>
> >"Gary H. Lucas" wrote:
> >
> >>
> >> Abrasha,
> >> It's good to see you got your project done, and it looks very nice. I
> >> believe it took a long time because you were told over and over again you
> >> were trying to do it the hard way.
> >
> ><<snip>>
>
> Abrasha:
>
> Nice looking set. Did you do the modeling in TrueSpace?
No I used Corel Draw to create 2D outlines, saved as DXF files.
>
> Are you showing any of this set in the "chess pieces" show I saw
> mentioned a couple months ago in Metalsmith?
Yes. This set was made specifically for that show. It will open in San
Franciso, than travel to Scotland and England for the summer, then in the fall
it will return to the US for a show in New Orleans.
Abrasha
http://www.abrasha.com
doofus
No no no, that's not true. I don't care how much money he gets for
his shiny frou-frou washers. What I care about is that he gets plenty
money for toys then the landlords see all the yuppy-bucks to be made
and jack up the rent, so that when the Coast Guard beats me to death
on the couplings for the pumps they drop onto sinking ships I can't
afford to stay where I've lived all my life. If the yuppy jewelers
didn't affect the cost of housing, rent, and food I really wouldn't
give a shit _how_ much they made by suckering some other idiot into
doing their work for pennies.
John Smith
doofus wrote:
> Guido <reu...@no-spam.net> wrote in message news:<3E7F6B9F...@no-spam.net>...
> > Charlie Gary wrote:
> > > "doofus" <ha...@pacbell.net> wrote in message
> > >>Just for fun, why
> > >>don't you tell us what you plan to sell that chess set for,
> > >>eh ? Maybe _that_ is the conflict here ?
> > >
> > >
> > > How many sides does this story have? :-)
> > >
> >
> > Hamie's just pissed at the amount of money Abrasha can get for washers.
>
Are you sure??
doofus
> >
>
>
> Are you sure??
Sure about what ? Sure that I don't care, or sure that he
suckered somebody into doing the work for pennies ?
Both. If prices returned to pre-yuppy levels around here the
damn BMW addicts could do whatever the hell they wanted and
I wouldn't give a shit.
Sure about the price ? Damn straight. I've been doing this for
decades. I can identify a leech at 100 yards. The turnip truck
don't make deliveries here no more.