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slitting spring bronze
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Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 1:09:40 PM5/20/13
to
Ok, 'solutions guys'...
I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
80" long.
I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
distortion.
We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Lloyd
I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
80" long.
I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
distortion.
We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
Any ideas?
Thanks,
Lloyd
Existential Angst
May 20, 2013, 1:22:13 PM5/20/13
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA1C685E21F74Fll...@216.168.3.70...
Surface grinder with thin abrasive cutoff wheel.
--
EA
>
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
>
news:XnsA1C685E21F74Fll...@216.168.3.70...
--
EA
>
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
>
Pete C.
May 20, 2013, 1:23:28 PM5/20/13
to
clamps?) and then cut it with a slitting saw in a mill?
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 1:36:54 PM5/20/13
to
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> fired this volley in news:519a5c14$0
$14320$862e...@ngroups.net:
> Can you roll it up on some sacrificial form (dowel?), secure it (hose
> clamps?) and then cut it with a slitting saw in a mill?
Yeah, perhaps. That was one thought that already came to mind, but I
don't have any experience sawing that stuff (it's tougher than a cypress
heart). It's also thin, so I'm not sure we aren't going to end up
snagging and lifting layers, even if we cut in climb.
But that's one idea certainly on the table (so to speak).
Maybe the same idea coupled with the abrasive wheel in the prior
suggestion???
Lloyd
$14320$862e...@ngroups.net:
> Can you roll it up on some sacrificial form (dowel?), secure it (hose
> clamps?) and then cut it with a slitting saw in a mill?
don't have any experience sawing that stuff (it's tougher than a cypress
heart). It's also thin, so I'm not sure we aren't going to end up
snagging and lifting layers, even if we cut in climb.
But that's one idea certainly on the table (so to speak).
Maybe the same idea coupled with the abrasive wheel in the prior
suggestion???
Lloyd
anorton
May 20, 2013, 1:37:31 PM5/20/13
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message
news:XnsA1C685E21F74Fll...@216.168.3.70...
With light pressure the edge does not deform. Keep it wet to keep it cool.
Cutting by hand does not leave a very straight edge, but maybe you can rig
up a guide. Although 80" would take a long time and several wheels.
You could try gluing it to a sacrificial board and using a slitting saw in a
mill.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 1:42:39 PM5/20/13
to
"anorton" <ano...@removethis.ix.netcom.com> fired this volley in
news:Z4adnYGxuv_twgfM...@earthlink.com:
> You could try gluing it to a sacrificial board and using a slitting
> saw in a mill.
It's 80" long. I don't have a mill with X-travel that long. If I did
that, I'd have to run it through some guides by hand, like ripping on a
table saw.
That last is another suggestion that's been profered. Screw two waste
sheets together clamping (and maybe also gluing) the work between... then
rip it with a brand new carbide blade and slow feed. ??? Of course,
you'd lose the 'clamping' behind the cut; but maybe that's not an issue.
The length, unrolled, is the bugger-bear for handling it flat.
LLoyd
news:Z4adnYGxuv_twgfM...@earthlink.com:
> You could try gluing it to a sacrificial board and using a slitting
> saw in a mill.
that, I'd have to run it through some guides by hand, like ripping on a
table saw.
That last is another suggestion that's been profered. Screw two waste
sheets together clamping (and maybe also gluing) the work between... then
rip it with a brand new carbide blade and slow feed. ??? Of course,
you'd lose the 'clamping' behind the cut; but maybe that's not an issue.
The length, unrolled, is the bugger-bear for handling it flat.
LLoyd
Ed Huntress
May 20, 2013, 1:48:22 PM5/20/13
to
wire EDM job.
It should be neat, but be aware that there may be a wire-breakage
problem from the intermittant conductivity. Maybe, maybe not. If the
EDM operator knows his stuff, he should be able to do it without a
problem.
Setup would be minimal.
--
Ed Huntress
anorton
May 20, 2013, 1:50:03 PM5/20/13
to
news:XnsA1C68B7949D0All...@216.168.3.70...
How about roll it onto a tube, put the tube in a lathe, and cut with a thin
abrasive wheel in a tool post grinder. I have a little adapter that holds a
dremel on the tool post.
abrasive wheel in a tool post grinder. I have a little adapter that holds a
dremel on the tool post.
Pete C.
May 20, 2013, 1:50:42 PM5/20/13
to
Michael A. Terrell
May 20, 2013, 1:53:22 PM5/20/13
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" wrote:
>
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
could even start the curve for the coil you want to make.
Ecnerwal
May 20, 2013, 2:05:01 PM5/20/13
to
In article <gaokp8hgidtp64n5c...@4ax.com>,
appropriately immobilized (would casting the roll in machinable wax or
one of the low-temp fixturing alloys (eg, woods metal) be too hot? Would
the fixturing alloys contaminate it? I don't know...just thinking about
ways to take the flex out of it for a clean cut.)
I wonder if putting it inside a pipe or bored hole and letting its own
spring tension do most of the clamping would be best - then you could
cut off a section of pipe with a section of spring-bronze rolled up in
it, and it would not be (quite) as prone to uncoiling as you cut. I
still suspect that some additional immobilization (such as wax casting)
would reduce Murphy's access to the process.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
Ed Huntress <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote:
> If you can roll it up, you have a candidate for a reasonably-priced
> wire EDM job.
That makes me wonder if a wire saw would also work, assuming it was
> If you can roll it up, you have a candidate for a reasonably-priced
> wire EDM job.
appropriately immobilized (would casting the roll in machinable wax or
one of the low-temp fixturing alloys (eg, woods metal) be too hot? Would
the fixturing alloys contaminate it? I don't know...just thinking about
ways to take the flex out of it for a clean cut.)
I wonder if putting it inside a pipe or bored hole and letting its own
spring tension do most of the clamping would be best - then you could
cut off a section of pipe with a section of spring-bronze rolled up in
it, and it would not be (quite) as prone to uncoiling as you cut. I
still suspect that some additional immobilization (such as wax casting)
would reduce Murphy's access to the process.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
Please don't feed the trolls. Killfile and ignore them so they will go away.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 2:09:10 PM5/20/13
to
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> fired this volley in news:519a6273$0$10817
$862e...@ngroups.net:
> Perhaps a nice ultra thin diamond wheel cut under coolant?
Do you know how one would load up cutting a fairly gummy non-ferrous metal?
(I don't).
Lloyd
$862e...@ngroups.net:
> Perhaps a nice ultra thin diamond wheel cut under coolant?
(I don't).
Lloyd
Paul K. Dickman
May 20, 2013, 2:14:26 PM5/20/13
to
news:XnsA1C685E21F74Fll...@216.168.3.70...
Try scoring it with a razor knife or one of those hooked blades you use to
score Plexiglas.
I have found that, once you have a score line, spring bronze tears pretty
easy in the direction of the grain.
Paul K. Dickman
score Plexiglas.
I have found that, once you have a score line, spring bronze tears pretty
easy in the direction of the grain.
Paul K. Dickman
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 2:17:16 PM5/20/13
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> fired this volley in
news:E-mdnVGqy7eL_gfM...@earthlink.com:
> Can you run that through a pair of rollers to flatten it out? It
> could even start the curve for the coil you want to make.
>
>
I guess I could find a roller. The sheared edge was also rough. We'd
have to dress it after flattening.
And we do not want it pre-curved. The purpose here is to keep it under
tension so that when it un-winds a little (about one turn on a 2.5" hub),
it stays flat-wound and self-supporting.
It's for a grounding strap on a rotary table. The table can only rotate
355 degrees, but house rules don't allow "wiper" type ground bonds in
this kind of environment. 'Has to be metal-to-metal and bonded with a
bolt.
The length of 80" was selected (stock sizes, so you picks what they
carries) because that allows the strip to unwind a minimal amount in
diameter with an approximately 10" length change.
Lloyd
news:E-mdnVGqy7eL_gfM...@earthlink.com:
> Can you run that through a pair of rollers to flatten it out? It
> could even start the curve for the coil you want to make.
>
>
have to dress it after flattening.
And we do not want it pre-curved. The purpose here is to keep it under
tension so that when it un-winds a little (about one turn on a 2.5" hub),
it stays flat-wound and self-supporting.
It's for a grounding strap on a rotary table. The table can only rotate
355 degrees, but house rules don't allow "wiper" type ground bonds in
this kind of environment. 'Has to be metal-to-metal and bonded with a
bolt.
The length of 80" was selected (stock sizes, so you picks what they
carries) because that allows the strip to unwind a minimal amount in
diameter with an approximately 10" length change.
Lloyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 2:21:34 PM5/20/13
to
"Paul K. Dickman" <pkdi...@ameritech.net> fired this volley in
news:kndp4...@news4.newsguy.com:
> Try scoring it with a razor knife or one of those hooked blades you
> use to score Plexiglas.
>
> I have found that, once you have a score line, spring bronze tears
> pretty easy in the direction of the grain.
There's an idea we haven't tried. We thought of scoring it, but also
thought the way to break the score would be by brake-bending... never
thought of _tearing_ it. Hmmm...
Now I've got to figure out if the grain runs the long way on this
material.
LLoyd
news:kndp4...@news4.newsguy.com:
> Try scoring it with a razor knife or one of those hooked blades you
> use to score Plexiglas.
>
> I have found that, once you have a score line, spring bronze tears
> pretty easy in the direction of the grain.
thought the way to break the score would be by brake-bending... never
thought of _tearing_ it. Hmmm...
Now I've got to figure out if the grain runs the long way on this
material.
LLoyd
Existential Angst
May 20, 2013, 2:24:10 PM5/20/13
to
"Paul K. Dickman" <pkdi...@ameritech.net> wrote in message
news:kndp4...@news4.newsguy.com...
I was thinking that myself, but like shearing, it might curl -- but proly
less so.
.010 is pretty thin.
Also, you could score it from both sides. Ditto the wheel on a SG.
--
EA
>
> Paul K. Dickman
>
news:kndp4...@news4.newsguy.com...
less so.
.010 is pretty thin.
Also, you could score it from both sides. Ditto the wheel on a SG.
--
EA
>
> Paul K. Dickman
>
Pete C.
May 20, 2013, 2:28:14 PM5/20/13
to
gummy.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 2:48:56 PM5/20/13
to
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> fired this volley in news:519a6b3f$0$23282
$862e...@ngroups.net:
>
> I wouldn't think that a spring temper bronze cut under coolant would be
> gummy.
Maybe not. I just don't have any experience cutting it. I cut oilite all
the time, but that's not the same creature.
Lloyd
$862e...@ngroups.net:
>
> I wouldn't think that a spring temper bronze cut under coolant would be
> gummy.
the time, but that's not the same creature.
Lloyd
Paul K. Dickman
May 20, 2013, 2:58:33 PM5/20/13
to
news:XnsA1C69212E14EDll...@216.168.3.70...
you can usually flex it enough between your fingers to start the tear then
follow it down.
You will probably have to coil it up and rub the cut edges on some 220 grit
sandpaper. The edge will be dangerous.
I can pretty much guarantee that the grain runs the long way. It would take
some serious rollers to squeeze an 80" wide sheet down to .010 spring hard.
The next guess would be to use a rotary shear. You can adjust the blades
close enough that there is zero clearance, but feeding 80" would be a pain
in the ass.
Paul K. Dickman
follow it down.
You will probably have to coil it up and rub the cut edges on some 220 grit
sandpaper. The edge will be dangerous.
I can pretty much guarantee that the grain runs the long way. It would take
some serious rollers to squeeze an 80" wide sheet down to .010 spring hard.
The next guess would be to use a rotary shear. You can adjust the blades
close enough that there is zero clearance, but feeding 80" would be a pain
in the ass.
Paul K. Dickman
PrecisionmachinisT
May 20, 2013, 3:32:09 PM5/20/13
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote in message news:XnsA1C685E21F74Fll...@216.168.3.70...
Then, make a "scrawker' out of a HSS or carbide lathe bit, or from a Stanley or Exacto knife or whatever...
--it should only take a few passes to score .010 brass deep enough to snap off easily
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=scrawker&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.46751780,d.cGE&biw=1152&bih=712&um=1&ie=UTF-8&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=DHeaUfSTOI7pigKyooHACA
Otherwise, wrapping it around something and clamping it, perhaps with a two or three "Ideal" type hose clamp and then parting off on a lathe may work well also...be sure and clamp both the main coil AND the coil that you're parting off, otherwise you'll be in for a big surprprise.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 3:41:53 PM5/20/13
to
"PrecisionmachinisT" <123mac...@notmail.com> fired this volley in
news:bMGdneS7RfCm5wfM...@scnresearch.com:
> Then, make a "scrawker' out of a HSS or carbide lathe bit,
Got one! I made one of those a long time ago from a power hacksaw blade,
for scoring plastics.
As far as parting it on the lathe, I have my cautions about that.
Partly, I don't know how it turns, and partly I see 'snagging' occurring
as it goes through the layers.
I think the general idea of scoring and snapping may be the safer one. I
could even put some abrasive paper on a nicely rectangular block, and
clean up the edge before removing the clamps.
Lloyd
news:bMGdneS7RfCm5wfM...@scnresearch.com:
> Then, make a "scrawker' out of a HSS or carbide lathe bit,
for scoring plastics.
As far as parting it on the lathe, I have my cautions about that.
Partly, I don't know how it turns, and partly I see 'snagging' occurring
as it goes through the layers.
I think the general idea of scoring and snapping may be the safer one. I
could even put some abrasive paper on a nicely rectangular block, and
clean up the edge before removing the clamps.
Lloyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 3:42:52 PM5/20/13
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> fired this volley in
news:XnsA1C69FB13882Bll...@216.168.3.70:
> As far as parting it on the lathe, I have my cautions about that.
>
Oh... and yeah... I already figured clamping on both sides of the cut might
be a smart idea <G>.
LLoyd
news:XnsA1C69FB13882Bll...@216.168.3.70:
> As far as parting it on the lathe, I have my cautions about that.
>
be a smart idea <G>.
LLoyd
dca...@krl.org
May 20, 2013, 4:00:05 PM5/20/13
to
On May 20, 1:09 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
.010 How about masking it and then etching . A wood trough lined
with plastic would work for something to etch it in. Look on the
internet for etching solution. Muratic acid and peroxide is one
solution you will find. Also vinegar , hydrogen peroxide and salt is
another. Just do not do the etching near your tools.
Dan
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> Any ideas?
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
>
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
.010 How about masking it and then etching . A wood trough lined
with plastic would work for something to etch it in. Look on the
internet for etching solution. Muratic acid and peroxide is one
solution you will find. Also vinegar , hydrogen peroxide and salt is
another. Just do not do the etching near your tools.
Dan
Gunner Asch
May 20, 2013, 4:43:00 PM5/20/13
to
Not too many other choices
--
"You guess the truth hurts?
Really?
"Hurt" aint the word.
For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
RaidŽ to a cockroach.
Sheriff Brody to a shark
Bush to a Liberal
The truth doesn't just hurt. It's painful, like a red hot poker shoved
up their ass. Like sliding down a hundred foot razor blade using their
dick as a brake.
They HATE the truth."
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 5:01:57 PM5/20/13
to
"dca...@krl.org" <dca...@krl.org> fired this volley in news:25adcaf7-
1d5e-4483-af6...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> 010 How about masking it and then etching . A wood trough lined
> with plastic would work for something to etch it in. Look on the
> internet for etching solution. Muratic acid and peroxide is one
> solution you will find. Also vinegar , hydrogen peroxide and salt is
> another. Just do not do the etching near your tools.
>
Woof! I've done 19"x19" PCBs in a home-made etching tray, but DAMN! 80
inches? I'm also thinking if I get any undercutting, it'll condemn the
'spring' after a few tens of thousands of flexes, and I need millions
from this (another reason for the length vs. travel).
I've seen .002" copper under-cut (badly), so I suspect .010 might, too.
Lloyd
1d5e-4483-af6...@h13g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
> 010 How about masking it and then etching . A wood trough lined
> with plastic would work for something to etch it in. Look on the
> internet for etching solution. Muratic acid and peroxide is one
> solution you will find. Also vinegar , hydrogen peroxide and salt is
> another. Just do not do the etching near your tools.
>
inches? I'm also thinking if I get any undercutting, it'll condemn the
'spring' after a few tens of thousands of flexes, and I need millions
from this (another reason for the length vs. travel).
I've seen .002" copper under-cut (badly), so I suspect .010 might, too.
Lloyd
Michael A. Terrell
May 20, 2013, 5:43:07 PM5/20/13
to
<http://products.conwire.com/item/flat-tinned-copper-braid-2/flat-tinned-copper-braid/1393?&plpver=1001&origin=keyword&by=prod&filter=0>
I tin the ends and drill a hole through the now solid area. I use RMA
flux, and clean it well but you can also crimp a lug on each end.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 6:02:25 PM5/20/13
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> fired this volley in
news:D7adnabfTIZtBQfM...@earthlink.com:
> You can't use a flat, tinned copper braid for a ground strap?
uncoils. If it sags onto the fixed equipment, there will be a snag.
The ONLY reason we elected to go with the bronze is because in simple
tests, it would self-support from just one end for a distance of about
6" from the support point.
If we had any means whatsoever to prevent the coil from sagging when it
loosened, I'd be using stainless steel braid with crimped fixturing.
Lloyd
Michael A. Terrell
May 20, 2013, 7:13:26 PM5/20/13
to
from snagging. A small spring can hold up the center. There are plenty
of ways to do it.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 7:22:03 PM5/20/13
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> fired this volley in
news:mbOdnWiNMv2HMwfM...@earthlink.com:
> Thin, half inch heat shrink or similar plastic tubing will keep it
> from snagging. A small spring can hold up the center. There are
plenty
> of ways to do it.
for problems of mounting and movement, and PVC in any form is not
permitted.
Believe me when I say we explored that possibility at length.
LLoyd
BQ340
May 20, 2013, 8:04:22 PM5/20/13
to
MikeB
--
Email is valid
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 8:10:22 PM5/20/13
to
BQ340 <BQ...@Roadrunner.com> fired this volley in news:519aba11$0$9534
$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
> Would a spring itself work instead of a flat piece?
No, but again, we studied that. No way to meet the hazard requirements
and also fit it into the available space.
LLoyd
$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
> Would a spring itself work instead of a flat piece?
and also fit it into the available space.
LLoyd
Steve Walker
May 20, 2013, 8:24:17 PM5/20/13
to
On 5/20/2013 13:09, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
>
Reading further down for the intended use, how about stainless shim
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
>
stock? Comes in various thickness, in 1/2" wide rolls. Probably can even
find blue temper spring steel in the same geometry.
--
Steve Walker
Fusi...@frontierbrain.com (remove brain when replying)
dca...@krl.org
May 20, 2013, 8:49:52 PM5/20/13
to
On May 20, 6:02 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
How about the guts of a tape measure?
Dan
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
> The ONLY reason we elected to go with the bronze is because in simple
> tests, it would self-support from just one end for a distance of about
> 6" from the support point.
>
>
> Lloyd
>
> The ONLY reason we elected to go with the bronze is because in simple
> tests, it would self-support from just one end for a distance of about
> 6" from the support point.
>
>
How about the guts of a tape measure?
Dan
dca...@krl.org
May 20, 2013, 9:02:17 PM5/20/13
to
On May 20, 5:01 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
much bigger.
I'm also thinking if I get any undercutting, it'll condemn the
> 'spring' after a few tens of thousands of flexes, and I need millions
> from this (another reason for the length vs. travel).
>
> I've seen .002" copper under-cut (badly), so I suspect .010 might, too.
>
> Lloyd
I would presume you etch from both sides , so it is as if it were
only .005. But you are right. You might have to make the pieces a
bit wider, rolll the piece up and sand the edges. One experiment
would show you how much of a problem undercutting presents.
Dan
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
> Woof! I've done 19"x19" PCBs in a home-made etching tray, but DAMN! 80
> inches?
19 by 19 is 361 square inches. 6 x 80 ils is 480 so not all that
> Woof! I've done 19"x19" PCBs in a home-made etching tray, but DAMN! 80
> inches?
much bigger.
I'm also thinking if I get any undercutting, it'll condemn the
> 'spring' after a few tens of thousands of flexes, and I need millions
> from this (another reason for the length vs. travel).
>
> I've seen .002" copper under-cut (badly), so I suspect .010 might, too.
>
> Lloyd
only .005. But you are right. You might have to make the pieces a
bit wider, rolll the piece up and sand the edges. One experiment
would show you how much of a problem undercutting presents.
Dan
BQ340
May 20, 2013, 9:12:08 PM5/20/13
to
books.google.com/books?isbn=0871707268 page 79 claims roll slitting will
not distort the edge of hard bronze.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 9:13:29 PM5/20/13
to
"dca...@krl.org" <dca...@krl.org> fired this volley in news:f2783117-
7a5f-4b4e-9e6...@r3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
>
> How about the guts of a tape measure?
nah... for other reasons given before.
Lloyd
7a5f-4b4e-9e6...@r3g2000yqe.googlegroups.com:
>
> How about the guts of a tape measure?
Lloyd
Paul Drahn
May 20, 2013, 9:13:28 PM5/20/13
to
On 5/20/2013 10:09 AM, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
Is this the same spring bronze that is used as weatherstripping for
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> Lloyd
wooden doors and windows?
Paul
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 9:15:44 PM5/20/13
to
BQ340 <BQ...@Roadrunner.com> fired this volley in news:519ac9f9$0$9480
$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
> I don't have my familiar reference book at home to check, but
> books.google.com/books?isbn=0871707268 page 79 claims roll slitting
will
> not distort the edge of hard bronze.
Ok... have a roll slitter just sitting around (in 3/8" width roll-to-roll
spacing)?
The mill that does the conversion doesn't, and they're a high-volume
cutter.
LLoyd
$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
> I don't have my familiar reference book at home to check, but
> books.google.com/books?isbn=0871707268 page 79 claims roll slitting
will
> not distort the edge of hard bronze.
spacing)?
The mill that does the conversion doesn't, and they're a high-volume
cutter.
LLoyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 9:16:59 PM5/20/13
to
Paul Drahn <pdr...@webformixair.com> fired this volley in news:knehg8$cl0$1
@dont-email.me:
> Is this the same spring bronze that is used as weatherstripping for
> wooden doors and windows?
>
I don't know, but that's an interesting proposition. I wonder if it's
available un-punched, and without a felt embedded in one edge?
Lloyd
@dont-email.me:
> Is this the same spring bronze that is used as weatherstripping for
> wooden doors and windows?
>
available un-punched, and without a felt embedded in one edge?
Lloyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 20, 2013, 9:22:33 PM5/20/13
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> fired this volley
in news:XnsA1C6D881DC057ll...@216.168.3.70:
> Paul Drahn <pdr...@webformixair.com> fired this volley in
> news:knehg8$cl0$1 @dont-email.me:
>
>> Is this the same spring bronze that is used as weatherstripping for
>> wooden doors and windows?
>>
Checking, the narrowest it's commonly available is 1-1/8", and it's
always pre-formed... I don't know if the bend would interfere or not, but
the width would.
Lloyd
in news:XnsA1C6D881DC057ll...@216.168.3.70:
> Paul Drahn <pdr...@webformixair.com> fired this volley in
> news:knehg8$cl0$1 @dont-email.me:
>
>> Is this the same spring bronze that is used as weatherstripping for
>> wooden doors and windows?
>>
always pre-formed... I don't know if the bend would interfere or not, but
the width would.
Lloyd
Gunner Asch
May 20, 2013, 9:27:54 PM5/20/13
to
--
"You guess the truth hurts?
Really?
"Hurt" aint the word.
For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
John
May 20, 2013, 9:50:21 PM5/20/13
to
Each cutting wheel is set for your width which is matched to the proper
shim on the bottom cutting bar. If I remember the spacing between
cutting wheels is usually half the thickness of the metal.
The cutting wheels alternate from top to the bottom roller with spacers
between each cutting wheel. I used to make cutting wheels for the
company next door to me but they have since sold their business and are
no longer there. I do have a bunch of cutters but without the machine
they are of no use.
http://www.iksinc.com/rotaryslitter.html
John
Pete C.
May 20, 2013, 10:14:53 PM5/20/13
to
countertop laminate might be adapted?
Paul Drahn
May 20, 2013, 11:15:56 PM5/20/13
to
snips. I think I had a roll of it at one time and used it to connect ham
radio equipment chassis together.
Paul
Paul Drahn
May 20, 2013, 11:21:30 PM5/20/13
to
skin. They are variable speed, hand held units. AL skin is pretty tough,
but the little I have cut goes like butter once you get it started. Got
the devices at an auction sale. Only used them a couple of times.
check with your local FBO at a small airport and see if they will test
the bronze in their cutter.
Paul
Pete C.
May 20, 2013, 11:39:44 PM5/20/13
to
in 0.008" and 0.012" thicknesses among others for about $40, 2416K43 and
2416K61. Plenty of other sizes as well.
Pete C.
May 20, 2013, 11:47:15 PM5/20/13
to
pyotr filipivich
May 21, 2013, 5:09:04 AM5/21/13
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> on Mon, 20 May 2013
19:13:26 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
And he / they chose the one they did.
"Tain't so much that it takes all kinds,,, as we have all kinds."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
19:13:26 -0400 typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
"Tain't so much that it takes all kinds,,, as we have all kinds."
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 6:52:31 AM5/21/13
to
Paul Drahn <pdr...@webformixair.com> fired this volley in news:knep0e$bl5
$1...@dont-email.me:
> I have a couple of older powered slitters for cutting aircraft aluminum
> skin. They are variable speed, hand held units. AL skin is pretty
tough,
> but the little I have cut goes like butter once you get it started. Got
> the devices at an auction sale. Only used them a couple of times.
>
>
Hmmmm.... I'm a pilot, and know about five A&Ps... I'll ask if any of
them have one of those.
Lloyd
$1...@dont-email.me:
> I have a couple of older powered slitters for cutting aircraft aluminum
> skin. They are variable speed, hand held units. AL skin is pretty
tough,
> but the little I have cut goes like butter once you get it started. Got
> the devices at an auction sale. Only used them a couple of times.
>
>
them have one of those.
Lloyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 6:54:00 AM5/21/13
to
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> fired this volley in news:519aec82$0$9410
$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
> McMaster lists 3/8" wide 10' length spring temper stainless (301) coils
> in 0.008" and 0.012" thicknesses among others for about $40, 2416K43
and
> 2416K61. Plenty of other sizes as well.
That's probably the way we'll go, if we cannot properly slit this stuff.
The client traditionally uses bronze, but we can most likely talk them
into SS, so long as it has a suitable fatigue life.
LLoyd
$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
> McMaster lists 3/8" wide 10' length spring temper stainless (301) coils
> in 0.008" and 0.012" thicknesses among others for about $40, 2416K43
and
> 2416K61. Plenty of other sizes as well.
The client traditionally uses bronze, but we can most likely talk them
into SS, so long as it has a suitable fatigue life.
LLoyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 7:04:43 AM5/21/13
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
news:gcjlp894smg9mh6pn...@4ax.com:
> Thin, half inch heat shrink or similar plastic tubing will keep it
>>from snagging. A small spring can hold up the center. There are
plenty
>>of ways to do it.
>
> I agree
>
>
>
Sorry, Gunner (and the op who posted that). You can't possibly know the
physical arrangement. We've probably thought of a hundred ways you've
never imagined. There are NOT 'plenty of ways to do it', or we'd have
already done it one of those easier ways.
We're having trouble slitting bronze because we don't have the right
tools. Were not dumb.
Lloyd
news:gcjlp894smg9mh6pn...@4ax.com:
> Thin, half inch heat shrink or similar plastic tubing will keep it
>>from snagging. A small spring can hold up the center. There are
plenty
>>of ways to do it.
>
> I agree
>
>
>
physical arrangement. We've probably thought of a hundred ways you've
never imagined. There are NOT 'plenty of ways to do it', or we'd have
already done it one of those easier ways.
We're having trouble slitting bronze because we don't have the right
tools. Were not dumb.
Lloyd
Brian Lawson
May 21, 2013, 8:40:47 AM5/21/13
to
Hey Lloyd,
Any possibility of coiling the raw stock to say a 5" diameter. or even
less diameter to the 2.5 inch "hub" you mention would be even better,
and then have slices taken off with wire EDM? Should leave the edges
less than sharp. Trick would be to hold it I think, but maybe on a
stub arbor?
Brian Lawson
Any possibility of coiling the raw stock to say a 5" diameter. or even
less diameter to the 2.5 inch "hub" you mention would be even better,
and then have slices taken off with wire EDM? Should leave the edges
less than sharp. Trick would be to hold it I think, but maybe on a
stub arbor?
Brian Lawson
Brian Lawson
May 21, 2013, 8:47:21 AM5/21/13
to
I don't know what it is called, but this sounds like the perfect job
for the form of a tape measure blade, where when straight, the "blade"
is concave (or is it convex??) across its width and wants to stay
"straight", and flat when coiled. I haven't seen one for quite some
time, but there used to be short rules say 1" wide of 24 or 36" length
that were "loose" and not inside a tape measure that worked that way.
Brian Lawson.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 9:00:49 AM5/21/13
to
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> fired this volley in news:519aec82$0$9410
$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
> McMaster lists 3/8" wide 10' length spring temper stainless (301) coils
> in 0.008" and 0.012" thicknesses among others for about $40, 2416K43
and
> 2416K61. Plenty of other sizes as well.
>
>
Thanks, Pete.
Even when we searched the McMaster site, that didn't pop up until we
noticed a transient key with "spring temper" in it. So, especially
thanks for the part number. We'd have missed it, otherwise.
Have contacted the client. They only always use bronze in this
application, but when I gave them the mechanical specs on the #301
strips, they did not refuse to accept it out of hand. Should get
approved or denied by tomorrow.
I've ordered it, anyway.
If approved, the problem is solved.
Thanks again.
Lloyd
$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
> McMaster lists 3/8" wide 10' length spring temper stainless (301) coils
> in 0.008" and 0.012" thicknesses among others for about $40, 2416K43
and
> 2416K61. Plenty of other sizes as well.
>
>
Even when we searched the McMaster site, that didn't pop up until we
noticed a transient key with "spring temper" in it. So, especially
thanks for the part number. We'd have missed it, otherwise.
Have contacted the client. They only always use bronze in this
application, but when I gave them the mechanical specs on the #301
strips, they did not refuse to accept it out of hand. Should get
approved or denied by tomorrow.
I've ordered it, anyway.
If approved, the problem is solved.
Thanks again.
Lloyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 9:02:37 AM5/21/13
to
Brian Lawson <law...@ciaccess.com> fired this volley in
news:b7qmp8lrtt8osq4un...@4ax.com:
yep... and/or abrasive wheel cutoff on the mill, with the coil standing
vertically, and strapped tightly on either side of the cut.
I'm not real keen on using an abrasive wheel on a mill, but we can cover
it adequately, I think. Sort of the same problem as using a toolpost
grinder on a lathe (which I hate).
LLoyd
news:b7qmp8lrtt8osq4un...@4ax.com:
vertically, and strapped tightly on either side of the cut.
I'm not real keen on using an abrasive wheel on a mill, but we can cover
it adequately, I think. Sort of the same problem as using a toolpost
grinder on a lathe (which I hate).
LLoyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 9:06:46 AM5/21/13
to
Brian Lawson <law...@ciaccess.com> fired this volley in
news:mrqmp8l51cj1r9puh...@4ax.com:
> I don't know what it is called, but this sounds like the perfect job
> for the form of a tape measure blade, where when straight, the "blade"
> is concave (or is it convex??) across its width and wants to stay
> "straight", and flat when coiled. I haven't seen one for quite some
> time, but there used to be short rules say 1" wide of 24 or 36" length
> that were "loose" and not inside a tape measure that worked that way.
>
That's the essence of what we're doing, except plain carbon spring steel
is not acceptable. This item will never un-reel, except for a
'standout' piece about 3" long from the body of the coil. The coil will
simply unwind to a slightly larger diameter from its rest condition. The
rotary element is constrained to 355 degrees of rotation.
It cannot be coiled tightly, because there must not be the chance of
crushing explosive particles between layers. It's ok to get them between
layers, but there's a limit on the force allowed. The stuff doesn't
stick to metal, so as long as it's not crushed, it is 'self cleaning' in
that respect.
Lloyd
news:mrqmp8l51cj1r9puh...@4ax.com:
> I don't know what it is called, but this sounds like the perfect job
> for the form of a tape measure blade, where when straight, the "blade"
> is concave (or is it convex??) across its width and wants to stay
> "straight", and flat when coiled. I haven't seen one for quite some
> time, but there used to be short rules say 1" wide of 24 or 36" length
> that were "loose" and not inside a tape measure that worked that way.
>
is not acceptable. This item will never un-reel, except for a
'standout' piece about 3" long from the body of the coil. The coil will
simply unwind to a slightly larger diameter from its rest condition. The
rotary element is constrained to 355 degrees of rotation.
It cannot be coiled tightly, because there must not be the chance of
crushing explosive particles between layers. It's ok to get them between
layers, but there's a limit on the force allowed. The stuff doesn't
stick to metal, so as long as it's not crushed, it is 'self cleaning' in
that respect.
Lloyd
Pete C.
May 21, 2013, 9:22:32 AM5/21/13
to
Michael A. Terrell
May 21, 2013, 10:07:58 AM5/21/13
to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 10:17:10 AM5/21/13
to
"Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> fired this volley in
news:SpydnUQM06Be4gbM...@earthlink.com:
> They paid their money, let them take their chances. ;-)
They use and allow flexible stainless steel braid where the braid will
not interfere with other motions. They usually do not use braid on
things that move during use, only on things that might be moved
occasionally. Where they must maintain the geometry of a bonding strap
or subject it to frequent motion, they use only bronze spring stock.
But consider too, they're an old, 'established' organization with safety
rules that date all the way back to the 1930s. So they may have passed
by newer materials and technologies for what they already know works.
Why spend money on testing for solutions you already have in place?
(unless you don't trust them)
We submitted a request for them to review the characteristics of #301
spring temper stainless, and they were at least receptive. We'll see
tomorrow.
Lloyd
Joe Gwinn
May 21, 2013, 10:43:38 AM5/21/13
to
In article <XnsA1C685E21F74Fll...@216.168.3.70>, Lloyd
is wanted, and etch the rest away. Phosphor bronze is not hard to
etch.
Joe Gwinn
E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
Chemical or electrochemical machining? Put down tape the size of what
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
is wanted, and etch the rest away. Phosphor bronze is not hard to
etch.
Joe Gwinn
PCS
May 21, 2013, 1:57:58 PM5/21/13
to
On Monday, May 20, 2013 1:09:40 PM UTC-4, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
>
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
>
> 80" long.
>
>
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
>
> distortion.
>
>
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
>
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
>
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
>
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
>
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
>
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
>
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
>
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
>
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
>
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
> Thanks,
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
>
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
>
> 80" long.
>
>
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
>
> distortion.
>
>
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
>
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
>
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
>
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
>
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
>
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
>
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
>
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
>
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
>
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
>
>
> Any ideas?
>
>
>
>
> Lloyd
Hello,
I have pondered that if I had this problem in my shop I think I'd try this:
Mount ID of roll on an expanding arbor in lathe, pay attention to orientation of roll.
Place two hose clamps on OD of roll, one to left of cut, other to right of cut, about the width of my cutoff blade apart.
Use a sharp HSS cutoff blade to part off 3/8" slice of the roll between the clamps.
Feeds & speeds for this material I couldn't suggest, but should be some info about this available elsewhere.
Move/remove the clamps and do another slice.
First slice cut off would tell you if it's a workable plan, without destroying too much material if it's not going to work for some reason.
G'luck
--
PaulS
Kristian Ukkonen
May 21, 2013, 2:19:47 PM5/21/13
to
On 5/20/2013 20:09, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
Ask another place. It really shouldn't cost that much.
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
I would expect to get it WITH special material for that cost..
I'd do it with angle grinder in some setup to move it linearly.
It will cut fast enough not to have much heat-affected zone.
Perhaps could do it by making it into a roll and use a cut-off
holder for angle-grinder.. put it to vise like a bar (with
bar inside) and cut it.
Roll it on a steel bar and use a pipe-cutter to cut it! This
might actually be the way to do it neatly and simply!
Kristian Ukkonen.
Jon Elson
May 21, 2013, 3:02:36 PM5/21/13
to
Joe Gwinn wrote:
> Chemical or electrochemical machining? Put down tape the size of what
> is wanted, and etch the rest away. Phosphor bronze is not hard to
> etch.
This will probably leave a ragged edge, as the etchant will get up
> Chemical or electrochemical machining? Put down tape the size of what
> is wanted, and etch the rest away. Phosphor bronze is not hard to
> etch.
under the glue of the tape. But, maybe some hand finishing could
clean that up. I etch .003" brass shim stock all the time to make
solder stencils for electronic manufacturing. I use a laminated dry
film resist that is then exposed through a master photo film and
developed. This gives sharp edges and fine detail. But, I sometimes
mask off an area with tape just to prevent using up the etchant, and
this suffers from etchant getting under the edge of the tape.
Jon
Gunner Asch
May 21, 2013, 3:22:25 PM5/21/13
to
Gunner
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 3:53:11 PM5/21/13
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
news:mainp8lcr2e00q1ou...@4ax.com:
> Sorry Lloyd. Just trying to help. My appologies.
Sometimes I get cranky at folks presuming they know how a machine is
built without seeing it or knowing the constraints under which we're
required to work when building stuff for explosives manufacturers. <G>
Lloyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 3:58:43 PM5/21/13
to
"PrecisionmachinisT" <123mac...@notmail.com> fired this volley in
news:bMGdneS7RfCm5wfM...@scnresearch.com:
> Then, make a "scrawker' out of a HSS or carbide lathe bit, or from a
> Stanley or Exacto knife or whatever...
>
>
hey...
I want to thank you for that. As I said, I'd made one of those for
scoring plastics - oh... - about 40 years ago, and use it frequently.
But for some reason, it did not come to mind.
We have a lot of use for that spring bronze for other, smaller contacts
and bond straps for vibrating stuff. We've been cutting little pieces
with shears and cleaning up the edges with a file and fine-grit carbo.
The 'scrawker' (as you call it -- probably because of the sound it makes
in plastic??) peels up a PERFECT little curl for the entire length of the
cut. Six or seven firm passes is all it takes to snap off a piece, and
it only takes the fine paper dressing to finish it up.
I still don't think we have the patience or space to score 80" strips
(problem likely solved tomorrow, anyway), but it sure works a treat on
stuff a foot or less long!
Thanks!
LLoyd
news:bMGdneS7RfCm5wfM...@scnresearch.com:
> Then, make a "scrawker' out of a HSS or carbide lathe bit, or from a
> Stanley or Exacto knife or whatever...
>
>
hey...
I want to thank you for that. As I said, I'd made one of those for
scoring plastics - oh... - about 40 years ago, and use it frequently.
But for some reason, it did not come to mind.
We have a lot of use for that spring bronze for other, smaller contacts
and bond straps for vibrating stuff. We've been cutting little pieces
with shears and cleaning up the edges with a file and fine-grit carbo.
The 'scrawker' (as you call it -- probably because of the sound it makes
in plastic??) peels up a PERFECT little curl for the entire length of the
cut. Six or seven firm passes is all it takes to snap off a piece, and
it only takes the fine paper dressing to finish it up.
I still don't think we have the patience or space to score 80" strips
(problem likely solved tomorrow, anyway), but it sure works a treat on
stuff a foot or less long!
Thanks!
LLoyd
Larry Jaques
May 21, 2013, 5:47:49 PM5/21/13
to
On Mon, 20 May 2013 12:09:40 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
>I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
>80" long.
>
>I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
>distortion.
>
>We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
>shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
>application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
>I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
>it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
>I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
>80" long.
>
>I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
>distortion.
>
>We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
>shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
>application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
>I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
>it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
>We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
>waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
>just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
Yeah, waterjet would be my choice, given a budget for it. I don't see
>waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
>just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
how a laser could do it without ruining the temper, but I know little
about the laser cutting process, other than what a friend's Analog did
for his wood projects. No temper problems here. <heh>
>A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
>the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
>Any ideas?
Does it cut fairly cleanly between steel blades? And would rolling
the edges back to flat be acceptable?
OR, got a grinder to remove the curl?
OR, cut 7/16" wide and wind it, then grind the curled edges off to
proper width?
What about a sheet-metal house? In bad times such as these, the
mandatory minimums are often overlooked.
--
If you're trying to take a roomful of people by
surprise, it's a lot easier to hit your targets
if you don't yell going through the door.
-- Lois McMaster Bujold
PrecisionmachinisT
May 21, 2013, 7:12:50 PM5/21/13
to
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message news:519b75ac$0$7731$a826...@newsreader.readnews.com...
"SPARK RESISTANCE. A common misapplication of stainless steel is in areas requiring non-sparking materials. Since stainless steels are basically alloys of ..."
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 7:21:54 PM5/21/13
to
"PrecisionmachinisT" <123mac...@notmail.com> fired this volley in
news:jKmdneOeHo7mYgbM...@scnresearch.com:
> "SPARK RESISTANCE. A common misapplication of stainless steel is in
> areas requiring non-sparking materials. Since stainless steels are
> basically alloys of ..."
>
<G> Not a problem here, sir.
Yes, pretty much all stainless alloys spark when ground, and some spark
under impact, some don't.
But in this case, there are no impacts against the spring-stock possible,
and it's sheltered from any _serious_ contamination from the product
itself. Nor are the parts moving fast enough to cause the sort of
friction that would promote sparking (<1rpm).
Yep... we deal with that issue every day, and most of our exposed parts
are 6061 and MIC-5/6 (or bronze, or zinc alloys, or tin alloys) because
of it.
LLoyd
news:jKmdneOeHo7mYgbM...@scnresearch.com:
> "SPARK RESISTANCE. A common misapplication of stainless steel is in
> areas requiring non-sparking materials. Since stainless steels are
> basically alloys of ..."
>
Yes, pretty much all stainless alloys spark when ground, and some spark
under impact, some don't.
But in this case, there are no impacts against the spring-stock possible,
and it's sheltered from any _serious_ contamination from the product
itself. Nor are the parts moving fast enough to cause the sort of
friction that would promote sparking (<1rpm).
Yep... we deal with that issue every day, and most of our exposed parts
are 6061 and MIC-5/6 (or bronze, or zinc alloys, or tin alloys) because
of it.
LLoyd
Snag
May 21, 2013, 7:22:32 PM5/21/13
to
HMX DDT ?
--
Snag
Worked in an
R&D lab at
a missile plant .
LONG time ago ...
Brian Lawson
May 21, 2013, 7:38:54 PM5/21/13
to
Hey again again Lloyd, and I'll shut-up........
On Tue, 21 May 2013 09:17:10 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
SNIP
>Lloyd
Your mention of the flexible steel braid does bring to mind that wire
rope cable does come in phosphor bronze material. Would that work?
Bye now.
Brian Lawson
On Tue, 21 May 2013 09:17:10 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
SNIP
>They use and allow flexible stainless steel braid where the braid will
>not interfere with other motions. They usually do not use braid on
>things that move during use, only on things that might be moved
>occasionally. Where they must maintain the geometry of a bonding strap
>or subject it to frequent motion, they use only bronze spring stock.
>
SNIP>
>not interfere with other motions. They usually do not use braid on
>things that move during use, only on things that might be moved
>occasionally. Where they must maintain the geometry of a bonding strap
>or subject it to frequent motion, they use only bronze spring stock.
>
>Lloyd
Your mention of the flexible steel braid does bring to mind that wire
rope cable does come in phosphor bronze material. Would that work?
Bye now.
Brian Lawson
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 7:51:04 PM5/21/13
to
"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
@newsfe03.iad:
> Hey Lloyd , will
> HMX DDT ?
>
Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
<G>
Lloyd
@newsfe03.iad:
> Hey Lloyd , will
> HMX DDT ?
>
<G>
Lloyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 21, 2013, 7:52:44 PM5/21/13
to
Brian Lawson <law...@ciaccess.com> fired this volley in
news:p51op813e6k3e5395...@4ax.com:
> Would that work?
'Could, if we could properly retract it. That would work for some
situations, but not enough space in this app to do it.
We've got a solution pending HA approval tomorrow. Stainless steel #301
spring stock (already comes in narrow strips).
Lloyd
news:p51op813e6k3e5395...@4ax.com:
> Would that work?
'Could, if we could properly retract it. That would work for some
situations, but not enough space in this app to do it.
We've got a solution pending HA approval tomorrow. Stainless steel #301
spring stock (already comes in narrow strips).
Lloyd
Denis G.
May 21, 2013, 7:56:35 PM5/21/13
to
On May 20, 12:09 pm, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
> Lloyd
Here's a toll slitter (maybe worth a call):
http://www.precision-strip.com/services/slitting
Carolina Knife (slitting knife supplier) maybe they know someone
who'll do it for you:
http://www.cknife.com/industry/metal-processing.asp
Related article:
http://www.maxcessu.com/library/articles/tips-slitting-aluminum-foil
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
>
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
>
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Thanks,
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
>
> Lloyd
Here's a toll slitter (maybe worth a call):
http://www.precision-strip.com/services/slitting
Carolina Knife (slitting knife supplier) maybe they know someone
who'll do it for you:
http://www.cknife.com/industry/metal-processing.asp
Related article:
http://www.maxcessu.com/library/articles/tips-slitting-aluminum-foil
DoN. Nichols
May 21, 2013, 11:07:37 PM5/21/13
to
On 2013-05-20, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
The guillotine type shear? If it has newly sharpened blades,
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
> 80" long.
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
> distortion.
>
> We tried taking one a sheet metal house that had a long scissor-type
> shear, and it cut it, but also curled the edge too much for our
> application. It has to wind flat in a coil when finished.
and they are adjusted to just barely rub against each other, you will
get a much cleaner cut.
But the sheet metal house will not normally have the blades
adjusted that close, because that setting is wrong for the thickness of
metal they normally cut.
> I've tried sheet metal hand shears without much joy, a nibbler just chews
> it, and sawing it on anything we've got is impossible.
> We must not heat it. Also cost is an issue, or I'd have it done at a
> waterjet and laser house down the road, but they want a couple-hundred
> just to set up a job. For only five strips, that's not in budget.
>
> A virgin roll has perfect edges, and rolls tightly. The mill that makes
> the rolls from larger sheet stock cannot go narrower than 1".
>
> Any ideas?
1) The way the supplier probably does it is a set of rollers with
sharp hardened edges on two axles, with smaller diameter spacers
between them, run interleaved. Gear them so they counter-rotate
and adjust them to overlap by say about 1/8" for what you are
cutting) and you can likely feed it in smoothly and get really
nice edges. This is even the sort of thing which makers of
recording tape used to use to cut a wide web of tape material
(several inches or perhaps even feet) into 1/4", 1/2", 1", and
even 2" wide tape for various recorders. If it'll work for that
for miles of tape, it should work for your 80" long strips.
2) How much heat is too much? Try cutting it a bit over-wide,
roll it up and cast it in one of the really low melting point
alloys (melt in boiling water) from Cerro, and then grind the
edges on one side, flip it over and grind the other side to the
proper dimensions. You might even be able to slide the puck of
casting around on some fine sandpaper if you can accept a likely
bit of width variation as you go around the roll.
Good Luck,
DoN.
--
Remove oil spill source from e-mail
Email: <BPdnic...@d-and-d.com> | Voice (all times): (703) 938-4564
(too) near Washington D.C. | http://www.d-and-d.com/dnichols/DoN.html
--- Black Holes are where God is dividing by zero ---
Larry Jaques
May 22, 2013, 12:21:44 AM5/22/13
to
thought of that one, eh?)
nob...@nowhere.net
May 22, 2013, 12:58:24 AM5/22/13
to
I have used Chem Milling to fabricate thin complicated parts. The
vendor was very willing to fabricate small quantities relatively
inexpensively. See the following link for more information.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Chemical_milling?o=2801&qsrc=999
vendor was very willing to fabricate small quantities relatively
inexpensively. See the following link for more information.
http://www.ask.com/wiki/Chemical_milling?o=2801&qsrc=999
Gunner Asch
May 22, 2013, 1:15:13 AM5/22/13
to
On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:21:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:51:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
>>@newsfe03.iad:
>>
>>> Hey Lloyd , will
>>> HMX DDT ?
>>>
>>
>>Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
>><G>
>
>I hear C4 is great campfire starter, too. (What brilliant person first
>thought of that one, eh?)
The first GI that was wet, cold and hungry.
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:51:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>
>>"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
>>@newsfe03.iad:
>>
>>> Hey Lloyd , will
>>> HMX DDT ?
>>>
>>
>>Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
>><G>
>
>I hear C4 is great campfire starter, too. (What brilliant person first
>thought of that one, eh?)
Snag
May 22, 2013, 8:58:06 AM5/22/13
to
propellant mixes for just that property . Chemist's opinions/calculations
and real-world conditions sometimes disagreed - often violently .
--
Snag
Learning keeps
you young !
Larry Jaques
May 22, 2013, 9:59:54 AM5/22/13
to
On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:15:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
--
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight
very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.
-- John Wayne
wrote:
>On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:21:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:51:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
>>>@newsfe03.iad:
>>>
>>>> Hey Lloyd , will
>>>> HMX DDT ?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
>>><G>
>>
>>I hear C4 is great campfire starter, too. (What brilliant person first
>>thought of that one, eh?)
>
>
>The first GI that was wet, cold and hungry.
"I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
>On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:21:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:51:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>
>>>"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
>>>@newsfe03.iad:
>>>
>>>> Hey Lloyd , will
>>>> HMX DDT ?
>>>>
>>>
>>>Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
>>><G>
>>
>>I hear C4 is great campfire starter, too. (What brilliant person first
>>thought of that one, eh?)
>
>
>The first GI that was wet, cold and hungry.
sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
--
Tomorrow is the most important thing in life. Comes into us at midnight
very clean. It's perfect when it arrives and it puts itself in our hands.
It hopes we've learned something from yesterday.
-- John Wayne
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 22, 2013, 10:51:53 AM5/22/13
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
news:2jjpp81nl330ji2t6...@4ax.com:
> "I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
> sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
> hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
> I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
> start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
Horse crap and bull dingles, Larry.
C-4 is mostly RDX, waxes, oils, and dioctyl adapate. RDX, like HMX, burns
quietly unless shocked by an initiator. C-4 burns like a fast version of
sterno, with a perfectly quiet blue flame (tiniest bit of sizzle), no
soot, and no explosions.
To my knowlege, the US military does not employ any HE materials that
will DDT under open-air burning of small quantities. Bets are off if you
light a 100lb pile of the stuff.
And yes, even dynamite can burn, if it's actually dynamite and not one of
the AN 'dynamite-like' stuffs, and it has a high-enough nitro content.
The lower 15% stuff won't burn for shit (or explode when you try to
ignite it). Diatomacious earth/clay/compacted sawdust has a tendency not
to burn very vigorously.
Of course, you wouldn't know this, but even nitroglycerine (IF very pure
and free of any acids or undesirable organic ligands from nitration)
burns like vigorous alcohol. In this case, it would be tempting fate to
arrange a puddle of it, and ignite it by hand.
An urban legend I have not confirmed (but is probably true) has the
chemist who first compounded TNT casting an ashtray of the stuff, just to
demonstrate how insensitive it was.
I've cooked many a C-rat and LRPs on C-4. I still have all my digits.
Lloyd
news:2jjpp81nl330ji2t6...@4ax.com:
> "I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
> sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
> hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
> I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
> start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
C-4 is mostly RDX, waxes, oils, and dioctyl adapate. RDX, like HMX, burns
quietly unless shocked by an initiator. C-4 burns like a fast version of
sterno, with a perfectly quiet blue flame (tiniest bit of sizzle), no
soot, and no explosions.
To my knowlege, the US military does not employ any HE materials that
will DDT under open-air burning of small quantities. Bets are off if you
light a 100lb pile of the stuff.
And yes, even dynamite can burn, if it's actually dynamite and not one of
the AN 'dynamite-like' stuffs, and it has a high-enough nitro content.
The lower 15% stuff won't burn for shit (or explode when you try to
ignite it). Diatomacious earth/clay/compacted sawdust has a tendency not
to burn very vigorously.
Of course, you wouldn't know this, but even nitroglycerine (IF very pure
and free of any acids or undesirable organic ligands from nitration)
burns like vigorous alcohol. In this case, it would be tempting fate to
arrange a puddle of it, and ignite it by hand.
An urban legend I have not confirmed (but is probably true) has the
chemist who first compounded TNT casting an ashtray of the stuff, just to
demonstrate how insensitive it was.
I've cooked many a C-rat and LRPs on C-4. I still have all my digits.
Lloyd
Larry Jaques
May 22, 2013, 11:50:04 AM5/22/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 09:51:53 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
>news:2jjpp81nl330ji2t6...@4ax.com:
>
>> "I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
>> sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
>> hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
>> I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
>> start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
>
>Horse crap and bull dingles, Larry.
>C-4 is mostly RDX, waxes, oils, and dioctyl adapate. RDX, like HMX, burns
>quietly unless shocked by an initiator. C-4 burns like a fast version of
>sterno, with a perfectly quiet blue flame (tiniest bit of sizzle), no
>soot, and no explosions.
>To my knowlege, the US military does not employ any HE materials that
>will DDT under open-air burning of small quantities. Bets are off if you
>light a 100lb pile of the stuff.
Does every new soldier know all of that?
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
>news:2jjpp81nl330ji2t6...@4ax.com:
>
>> "I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
>> sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
>> hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
>> I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
>> start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
>
>Horse crap and bull dingles, Larry.
>C-4 is mostly RDX, waxes, oils, and dioctyl adapate. RDX, like HMX, burns
>quietly unless shocked by an initiator. C-4 burns like a fast version of
>sterno, with a perfectly quiet blue flame (tiniest bit of sizzle), no
>soot, and no explosions.
>To my knowlege, the US military does not employ any HE materials that
>will DDT under open-air burning of small quantities. Bets are off if you
>light a 100lb pile of the stuff.
>And yes, even dynamite can burn, if it's actually dynamite and not one of
>the AN 'dynamite-like' stuffs, and it has a high-enough nitro content.
>The lower 15% stuff won't burn for shit (or explode when you try to
>ignite it). Diatomacious earth/clay/compacted sawdust has a tendency not
>to burn very vigorously.
>
>Of course, you wouldn't know this, but even nitroglycerine (IF very pure
>and free of any acids or undesirable organic ligands from nitration)
>burns like vigorous alcohol. In this case, it would be tempting fate to
>arrange a puddle of it, and ignite it by hand.
>An urban legend I have not confirmed (but is probably true) has the
>chemist who first compounded TNT casting an ashtray of the stuff, just to
>demonstrate how insensitive it was.
>
>I've cooked many a C-rat and LRPs on C-4. I still have all my digits.
someone else's demonstration of burning it before you lit your own C4,
Lloyd.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 22, 2013, 12:06:39 PM5/22/13
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
news:50qpp89si120itk4c...@4ax.com:
> Does every new soldier know all of that?
done will (faithfully) pass it on.
>OK, but I'll bet you either researched it prior to burning it, or took
>someone else's demonstration of burning it before you lit your own C4,
believe what he's told by anyone with one more stripe than his. He
believes, because that's part of his job description.
Lloyd
Ed Huntress
May 22, 2013, 1:36:24 PM5/22/13
to
at least among the Marines. 'Don't know about the army.
My cousin, a Marine sniper, told me much the same story as the one
Lloyd related above. Like you, I expressed concern that he was
carrying a kilo of it in his pack when he went out on sniper missions.
Then he explained that it really was for heating coffee. <g>
--
Ed Huntress
Gunner Asch
May 22, 2013, 3:42:13 PM5/22/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 06:59:54 -0700, Larry Jaques
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:15:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:21:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:51:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
>>>>@newsfe03.iad:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Lloyd , will
>>>>> HMX DDT ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
>>>><G>
>>>
>>>I hear C4 is great campfire starter, too. (What brilliant person first
>>>thought of that one, eh?)
>>
>>
>>The first GI that was wet, cold and hungry.
>
>"I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
>sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
>hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
>I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
>start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
Yes..dynamite burns well, though not as fast as C4
>On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:15:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:21:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:51:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
>>>>@newsfe03.iad:
>>>>
>>>>> Hey Lloyd , will
>>>>> HMX DDT ?
>>>>>
>>>>
>>>>Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
>>>><G>
>>>
>>>I hear C4 is great campfire starter, too. (What brilliant person first
>>>thought of that one, eh?)
>>
>>
>>The first GI that was wet, cold and hungry.
>
>"I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
>sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
>hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
>I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
>start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 22, 2013, 4:05:27 PM5/22/13
to
Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com> fired this volley in
news:ir7qp8tlcrjjsfbhv...@4ax.com:
> Yes..dynamite burns well, though not as fast as C4
15% won't. The low-percentage heaving grades have so much inert filler
as to render them impervious to anything but a cap -- except for those
that are 'filled' with nitrocellulose for gas production. Those burn
like a candle.
Lloyd
news:ir7qp8tlcrjjsfbhv...@4ax.com:
> Yes..dynamite burns well, though not as fast as C4
as to render them impervious to anything but a cap -- except for those
that are 'filled' with nitrocellulose for gas production. Those burn
like a candle.
Lloyd
Richard
May 22, 2013, 5:13:22 PM5/22/13
to
Larry Jaques
May 22, 2013, 5:32:37 PM5/22/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 12:42:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
that fire or shock could detonate it.
wrote:
>On Wed, 22 May 2013 06:59:54 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:15:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:21:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:51:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>>>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
>>>>>@newsfe03.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Lloyd , will
>>>>>> HMX DDT ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
>>>>><G>
>>>>
>>>>I hear C4 is great campfire starter, too. (What brilliant person first
>>>>thought of that one, eh?)
>>>
>>>
>>>The first GI that was wet, cold and hungry.
>>
>>"I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
>>sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
>>hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
>>I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
>>start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
>
>Yes..dynamite burns well, though not as fast as C4
<blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
>On Wed, 22 May 2013 06:59:54 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 22:15:13 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 21:21:44 -0700, Larry Jaques
>>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>>On Tue, 21 May 2013 18:51:04 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
>>>><lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>>"Snag" <snag...@att.net> fired this volley in news:XkTmt.3828$cs.3131
>>>>>@newsfe03.iad:
>>>>>
>>>>>> Hey Lloyd , will
>>>>>> HMX DDT ?
>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Actually, it burns pretty politely until it's shocked strongly.
>>>>><G>
>>>>
>>>>I hear C4 is great campfire starter, too. (What brilliant person first
>>>>thought of that one, eh?)
>>>
>>>
>>>The first GI that was wet, cold and hungry.
>>
>>"I think I'll light my high-explosive plastique on fire." is not a
>>sane concept, sir. Even a super-small test piece would have blown his
>>hands clean off if he guessed wrong about it not exploding. <shrug>
>>I mean, you wouldn't just shave a slice off your stick of dynamite to
>>start a fire, would you? And it's less explosive.
>
>Yes..dynamite burns well, though not as fast as C4
that fire or shock could detonate it.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 22, 2013, 5:50:18 PM5/22/13
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
news:79eqp8lg0okd5g0ml...@4ax.com:
> <blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
> that fire or shock could detonate it.
Heh!
Larry, "shock" IS what detonates it. But not the sort of shock it would
get from dropping, or even pounding a stick (not on a steel plate) with a
hammer.
Detonators' and blasting caps' primary purpose is to supply a shock of
such a magnitude and rise time that it initiates explosive decomposition
of the compound your using for blasting.
Some materials (most 'hand-carry' HEs) are totally insensitive to
mishandling, and only capable of being detonated with a cap or
detonator/booster, or with fire in a LARGE mass.
The old saw about "sweating" dynamite is true. If you see a stick of old
stuff with glistening yellow droplets on the outside, then avoid it. The
NG has migrated through the paper to the surface; and NOW it's sensitive
to handling shock!
That happens rarely today. Most "dynamites" aren't even Dynamite, any
more (which is nitroglycerine dispersed in inert fillers and gas-
producing compounds). Most modern _so_called_ "dynamites" are ammonium
nitrate/metal/oil/water emulsions that don't initiate at all - ever -
without a strong cap or a booster.
Lloyd
LLoyd
news:79eqp8lg0okd5g0ml...@4ax.com:
> <blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
> that fire or shock could detonate it.
Larry, "shock" IS what detonates it. But not the sort of shock it would
get from dropping, or even pounding a stick (not on a steel plate) with a
hammer.
Detonators' and blasting caps' primary purpose is to supply a shock of
such a magnitude and rise time that it initiates explosive decomposition
of the compound your using for blasting.
Some materials (most 'hand-carry' HEs) are totally insensitive to
mishandling, and only capable of being detonated with a cap or
detonator/booster, or with fire in a LARGE mass.
The old saw about "sweating" dynamite is true. If you see a stick of old
stuff with glistening yellow droplets on the outside, then avoid it. The
NG has migrated through the paper to the surface; and NOW it's sensitive
to handling shock!
That happens rarely today. Most "dynamites" aren't even Dynamite, any
more (which is nitroglycerine dispersed in inert fillers and gas-
producing compounds). Most modern _so_called_ "dynamites" are ammonium
nitrate/metal/oil/water emulsions that don't initiate at all - ever -
without a strong cap or a booster.
Lloyd
LLoyd
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 22, 2013, 5:54:55 PM5/22/13
to
"Lloyd E. Sponenburgh" <lloydspinsidemindspring.com> fired this volley in
news:XnsA1C8B57793E3Cll...@216.168.3.70:
> Detonators' and blasting caps' primary purpose is to supply a shock of
> such a magnitude and rise time that it initiates explosive
decomposition
> of the compound your using for blasting.
I should add this:
Blasting caps are made with "primary explosives". These chemicals DO
detonate instantly upon being set on fire. They require no shock -- so a
fuse or an electrical resistance wire heater is enough. (yes, they're
also sensitive to mechanical shock).
It's the detonation of the cap which sets off the detonation of the
larger mass of high explosive, like C-4.
Caps use things similar to what's in percussion caps for firearms (but
there are several compounds that work better for blasting, and would be
injurious to the bores of guns, because of corrosion issues).
LLoyd
news:XnsA1C8B57793E3Cll...@216.168.3.70:
> Detonators' and blasting caps' primary purpose is to supply a shock of
> such a magnitude and rise time that it initiates explosive
decomposition
> of the compound your using for blasting.
Blasting caps are made with "primary explosives". These chemicals DO
detonate instantly upon being set on fire. They require no shock -- so a
fuse or an electrical resistance wire heater is enough. (yes, they're
also sensitive to mechanical shock).
It's the detonation of the cap which sets off the detonation of the
larger mass of high explosive, like C-4.
Caps use things similar to what's in percussion caps for firearms (but
there are several compounds that work better for blasting, and would be
injurious to the bores of guns, because of corrosion issues).
LLoyd
dca...@krl.org
May 22, 2013, 8:34:49 PM5/22/13
to
On May 22, 5:32 pm, Larry Jaques <ljaq...@invalid.diversifycomm.com>
wrote:
>
> <blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
> that fire or shock could detonate it.
>
> --
Du Pont came up with a explosive that is called Tovex. I am
reasonably sure it is TNT with some additions. Anyway they wanted to
make a film showing how safe it was and so had a demonstration where
a case of dynamite and a case of tovex were burned. And lo and behold
the dynamite exploded. Wonderful public relations.
However it turned out that the men setting up the demonstration knew
that the PR types wanted the dynamite to explode and so had put some
caps in with the dynamite. They did not want to keep setting up the
demonstation until the dynamite happened to explode.
The story may not be true, but it ought to be true.
Dan
wrote:
>
> <blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
> that fire or shock could detonate it.
>
> --
reasonably sure it is TNT with some additions. Anyway they wanted to
make a film showing how safe it was and so had a demonstration where
a case of dynamite and a case of tovex were burned. And lo and behold
the dynamite exploded. Wonderful public relations.
However it turned out that the men setting up the demonstration knew
that the PR types wanted the dynamite to explode and so had put some
caps in with the dynamite. They did not want to keep setting up the
demonstation until the dynamite happened to explode.
The story may not be true, but it ought to be true.
Dan
Gunner Asch
May 22, 2013, 9:07:42 PM5/22/13
to
--
"You guess the truth hurts?
Really?
"Hurt" aint the word.
For Liberals, the truth is like salt to a slug.
Sunlight to a vampire.
Gunner Asch
May 22, 2013, 9:11:22 PM5/22/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:32:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
Shock "can"...and the higher the nitro percentage...the more likely
This of course does not include frozen then thawed dynamite...which
can have a very hairy trigger...very dangerous stuff.
Old nitro...can have a significant amount of nitroglycerin leaking out
of the individual sticks and into the sawdust in the box. I dont know
what they use these days for packaging if anything..but when I worked
for the Atlas Powder company dealer...nearly all true dynamite still
came in wooden boxes filled with sawdust. Prills, nitramons etc
etc...all came in cardboard.
This of course does not include frozen then thawed dynamite...which
can have a very hairy trigger...very dangerous stuff.
Old nitro...can have a significant amount of nitroglycerin leaking out
of the individual sticks and into the sawdust in the box. I dont know
what they use these days for packaging if anything..but when I worked
for the Atlas Powder company dealer...nearly all true dynamite still
came in wooden boxes filled with sawdust. Prills, nitramons etc
etc...all came in cardboard.
whit3rd
May 22, 2013, 9:53:25 PM5/22/13
to
On Monday, May 20, 2013 10:09:40 AM UTC-7, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
>
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
>
> 80" long.
>
>
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
>
> distortion.
In addition to laser and water jet, there's electrochemical machining; you could
> Ok, 'solutions guys'...
>
>
>
> I have some 0.010" phosphor bronze (spring temper) in rolls 6" wide x
>
> 80" long.
>
>
>
> I need to cleanly slit some 3/8" strips x 80" from this without any edge
>
> distortion.
print it like a printed circuit board, and etch with ferrous chloride to part the strip.
Unrolling it and getting a photographic negative that long for an exposure, though,
isnt an easy print process in this case. I've done smaller parts this way.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 22, 2013, 10:04:44 PM5/22/13
to
whit3rd <whi...@gmail.com> fired this volley in news:cc7dd172-8168-44f4-
b4fe-ac0...@googlegroups.com:
> ferrous chloride
Ferrous chloride doesn't rapidly enter into a double-displacement
reaction with copper. It's corrosive to most metals, but not like Ferric
chloride.
Ferric chloride works to etch copper alloys, aluminum, some stainless,
zinc...just about any alloy with metals more active than iron, but it
undercuts...
Why would you do a photo-resist for something like that?
If I were inclined to try to etch an 80" long piece, it would be with a
PSA resist film. (not ordinary 'tape', but a plastic resist with a
special adhesive that doesn't bleed underneath like regular tapes do.)
Lloyd
b4fe-ac0...@googlegroups.com:
> ferrous chloride
Ferrous chloride doesn't rapidly enter into a double-displacement
reaction with copper. It's corrosive to most metals, but not like Ferric
chloride.
Ferric chloride works to etch copper alloys, aluminum, some stainless,
zinc...just about any alloy with metals more active than iron, but it
undercuts...
Why would you do a photo-resist for something like that?
If I were inclined to try to etch an 80" long piece, it would be with a
PSA resist film. (not ordinary 'tape', but a plastic resist with a
special adhesive that doesn't bleed underneath like regular tapes do.)
Lloyd
Larry Jaques
May 22, 2013, 10:19:58 PM5/22/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 16:50:18 -0500, "Lloyd E. Sponenburgh"
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
>news:79eqp8lg0okd5g0ml...@4ax.com:
>
>> <blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
>> that fire or shock could detonate it.
>
>Heh!
>
>Larry, "shock" IS what detonates it. But not the sort of shock it would
>get from dropping, or even pounding a stick (not on a steel plate) with a
>hammer.
>
>Detonators' and blasting caps' primary purpose is to supply a shock of
>such a magnitude and rise time that it initiates explosive decomposition
>of the compound your using for blasting.
Yes, I knew that much. ;)
<lloydspinsidemindspring.com> wrote:
>Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
>news:79eqp8lg0okd5g0ml...@4ax.com:
>
>> <blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
>> that fire or shock could detonate it.
>
>Heh!
>
>Larry, "shock" IS what detonates it. But not the sort of shock it would
>get from dropping, or even pounding a stick (not on a steel plate) with a
>hammer.
>
>Detonators' and blasting caps' primary purpose is to supply a shock of
>such a magnitude and rise time that it initiates explosive decomposition
>of the compound your using for blasting.
>Some materials (most 'hand-carry' HEs) are totally insensitive to
>mishandling, and only capable of being detonated with a cap or
>detonator/booster, or with fire in a LARGE mass.
>
>The old saw about "sweating" dynamite is true. If you see a stick of old
>stuff with glistening yellow droplets on the outside, then avoid it. The
>NG has migrated through the paper to the surface; and NOW it's sensitive
>to handling shock!
>That happens rarely today. Most "dynamites" aren't even Dynamite, any
>more (which is nitroglycerine dispersed in inert fillers and gas-
>producing compounds). Most modern _so_called_ "dynamites" are ammonium
>nitrate/metal/oil/water emulsions that don't initiate at all - ever -
>without a strong cap or a booster.
Larry Jaques
May 22, 2013, 10:22:32 PM5/22/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 18:11:22 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
wrote:
>On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:32:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>><blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
>>that fire or shock could detonate it.
>
>Shock "can"...and the higher the nitro percentage...the more likely
>
>This of course does not include frozen then thawed dynamite...which
>can have a very hairy trigger...very dangerous stuff.
>
>Old nitro...can have a significant amount of nitroglycerin leaking out
>of the individual sticks and into the sawdust in the box. I dont know
>what they use these days for packaging if anything..but when I worked
>for the Atlas Powder company dealer...nearly all true dynamite still
>came in wooden boxes filled with sawdust. Prills, nitramons etc
>etc...all came in cardboard.
I wish I had your experience there. Sounds like fun.
Me like things go boom.
wrote:
>On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:32:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>><blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
>>that fire or shock could detonate it.
>
>Shock "can"...and the higher the nitro percentage...the more likely
>
>This of course does not include frozen then thawed dynamite...which
>can have a very hairy trigger...very dangerous stuff.
>
>Old nitro...can have a significant amount of nitroglycerin leaking out
>of the individual sticks and into the sawdust in the box. I dont know
>what they use these days for packaging if anything..but when I worked
>for the Atlas Powder company dealer...nearly all true dynamite still
>came in wooden boxes filled with sawdust. Prills, nitramons etc
>etc...all came in cardboard.
Me like things go boom.
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh
May 22, 2013, 10:23:42 PM5/22/13
to
Larry Jaques <lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> fired this volley in
news:99vqp89i2gfmjn7o5...@4ax.com:
> Me like things go boom.
That's why I do what I do! <G>
Lloyd
news:99vqp89i2gfmjn7o5...@4ax.com:
> Me like things go boom.
Lloyd
John
May 22, 2013, 10:25:05 PM5/22/13
to
Lloyd E. Sponenburgh wrote:
> BQ340 <BQ...@Roadrunner.com> fired this volley in news:519ac9f9$0$9480
> $a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
>
>> I don't have my familiar reference book at home to check, but
>> books.google.com/books?isbn=0871707268 page 79 claims roll slitting
> will
>> not distort the edge of hard bronze.
>
> Ok... have a roll slitter just sitting around (in 3/8" width roll-to-roll
> spacing)?
>
> The mill that does the conversion doesn't, and they're a high-volume
> cutter.
>
> LLoyd
>
You can stack the cutters and get just about any size you need. I have
about 160 lbs of cutters stored in the back.
John
> BQ340 <BQ...@Roadrunner.com> fired this volley in news:519ac9f9$0$9480
> $a826...@newsreader.readnews.com:
>
>> I don't have my familiar reference book at home to check, but
>> books.google.com/books?isbn=0871707268 page 79 claims roll slitting
> will
>> not distort the edge of hard bronze.
>
> Ok... have a roll slitter just sitting around (in 3/8" width roll-to-roll
> spacing)?
>
> The mill that does the conversion doesn't, and they're a high-volume
> cutter.
>
> LLoyd
>
You can stack the cutters and get just about any size you need. I have
about 160 lbs of cutters stored in the back.
John
Gunner Asch
May 23, 2013, 2:11:49 AM5/23/13
to
On Wed, 22 May 2013 19:22:32 -0700, Larry Jaques
Prima cord..is another fun toy.
Gunner
<lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>On Wed, 22 May 2013 18:11:22 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:32:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>><blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
>>>that fire or shock could detonate it.
>>
>>Shock "can"...and the higher the nitro percentage...the more likely
>>
>>This of course does not include frozen then thawed dynamite...which
>>can have a very hairy trigger...very dangerous stuff.
>>
>>Old nitro...can have a significant amount of nitroglycerin leaking out
>>of the individual sticks and into the sawdust in the box. I dont know
>>what they use these days for packaging if anything..but when I worked
>>for the Atlas Powder company dealer...nearly all true dynamite still
>>came in wooden boxes filled with sawdust. Prills, nitramons etc
>>etc...all came in cardboard.
>
>I wish I had your experience there. Sounds like fun.
>
>Me like things go boom.
HE is fun, no matter if you use store bought or make your own.
>On Wed, 22 May 2013 18:11:22 -0700, Gunner Asch <gunne...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Wed, 22 May 2013 14:32:37 -0700, Larry Jaques
>><lja...@invalid.diversifycomm.com> wrote:
>>><blink> I guess I knew less about dynamite than I thought, thinking
>>>that fire or shock could detonate it.
>>
>>Shock "can"...and the higher the nitro percentage...the more likely
>>
>>This of course does not include frozen then thawed dynamite...which
>>can have a very hairy trigger...very dangerous stuff.
>>
>>Old nitro...can have a significant amount of nitroglycerin leaking out
>>of the individual sticks and into the sawdust in the box. I dont know
>>what they use these days for packaging if anything..but when I worked
>>for the Atlas Powder company dealer...nearly all true dynamite still
>>came in wooden boxes filled with sawdust. Prills, nitramons etc
>>etc...all came in cardboard.
>
>I wish I had your experience there. Sounds like fun.
>
>Me like things go boom.
Prima cord..is another fun toy.
Gunner
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