Second try.. Left handed Cobalt or Carbide Drill supplier?
tnik
drills? Looking for a 3/8" jobber or screw length..
thanks
tom
Ned Simmons
>Anyone know of someone that carries left handed cobalt or carbide
>drills? Looking for a 3/8" jobber or screw length..
>
McMaster-Carr...
3474A23
Left-Hand Cobalt Steel Maintenance Length Bit 135 Deg, 3/8" Sz, 4-1/8"
L O'all, 2.1" Drill Depth
In stock at $13.42 Each
--
Ned Simmons
Kirk Gordon
I know a left-handed tool supplier: but I don't know if he sells
left-handed tools.
KG
Dave H.
"Kirk Gordon" wrote...
>
>
> I know a left-handed tool supplier: but I don't know if he sells
> left-handed tools.
>
Reminds me of my first job in a factory (wireman, progressed to prototype
wireman in a few months, hated it and moved on)...
The "experienced" guys in the machine shop were always sending newbies to
the stores for "sparks for the grinder", "left-handed ratchets" etc. I was
sent for a "metric screwriver" so I popped over the road to the pub, came
back with 25cc of vodka and 75cc of orange juice in a glass...
Dave H.
--
(The engineer formerly known as Homeless)
"Rules are for the obedience of fools, and the guidance of wise men" -
Douglas Bader
tnik
Good find Ned.. I searched all over mcmaster and msc.. couldn't find a
left hand cobalt at all.. I called msc and they could get me one via
dropship from Irwin, but I would have had to buy 6 of them, and I
couldn't see spending 100 bucks on something that I'm not sure will even
work..
Just wondering, how did you come by that? I tried many different ways to
get to a cobalt left hand drill, and only came up with HSS.
Ed Huntress
"tnik" <kortj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:YNOjn.368327$FK3.2...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
This doesn't answer your question, but it's an occasion to give my frequent
sidebar on high speed steel. <g>
"Cobalt" tools are high speed steel tools. Several high-performance grades
of HSS contain cobalt; 5% cobalt for M35 and T15, and 8% for M42. There's
also a 10% cobalt version, M48. And the powder-metallurgy "bridge materials"
(such as CPM Rex 121) contain even larger amounts. You won't see them on the
retail market, except for gear hobs that cost like crazy.
It's M42 that's been nicknamed "cobalt." Some people cheat a bit and apply
the term to M35 -- particularly importers of Asian tools.
But it's all high speed steel. If you're dealing with top-notch materials
and tool suppliers, that *may* be why you kept coming up with HSS. They
don't call it "cobalt." The term, used as the name for the tool material
rather than for the alloy component, is used more frequently in the low end
of the metalcutting business.
Here's an abbreviated table that shows the major grades of high speed steel,
from a Chinese source. I haven't checked their characterization of AISI
grades, so double-check if you want accurate information. One thing it
doesn't show is the useless crap coming from China that shows up in discount
stores. They call it "M50 equivalent," but it typically contains no tungsten
at all. Regular M50 contains 0.25% tungsten. It's good for woodworking and
for drilling aluminum. The "equivalent" is good for nothing much. <g>
--
Ed Huntress
Robert Swinney
"Cobalt" tools are high speed steel tools. Several high-performance grades
of HSS contain cobalt; 5% cobalt for M35 and T15, and 8% for M42. There's
also a 10% cobalt version, M48. And the powder-metallurgy "bridge materials"
(such as CPM Rex 121) contain even larger amounts. You won't see them on the
retail market, except for gear hobs that cost like crazy. ..."
Great reply, Ed. Hopefully it will help the OP to get out of the "exact material" requirement rut
and on to more productive, and enjoyable, metalworking.
Bob Swinney
"Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in message news:4b8fc17d$0$22516$607e...@cv.net...
"tnik" <kortj...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:YNOjn.368327$FK3.2...@en-nntp-06.dc1.easynews.com...
> On 3/3/2010 11:31 AM, Ned Simmons wrote:
>> On Wed, 03 Mar 2010 11:11:00 -0500, tnik<kortj...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>>> Anyone know of someone that carries left handed cobalt or carbide
>>> drills? Looking for a 3/8" jobber or screw length..
>>>
>>
>> McMaster-Carr...
>>
>> 3474A23
>> Left-Hand Cobalt Steel Maintenance Length Bit 135 Deg, 3/8" Sz, 4-1/8"
>> L O'all, 2.1" Drill Depth
>> In stock at $13.42 Each
>>
>
> Good find Ned.. I searched all over mcmaster and msc.. couldn't find a
> left hand cobalt at all.. I called msc and they could get me one via
> dropship from Irwin, but I would have had to buy 6 of them, and I couldn't
> see spending 100 bucks on something that I'm not sure will even work..
>
> Just wondering, how did you come by that? I tried many different ways to
> get to a cobalt left hand drill, and only came up with HSS."Cobalt" tools are high speed steel
tnik
> Ed sez, (snip, snip)
>
> "Cobalt" tools are high speed steel tools. Several high-performance grades
> of HSS contain cobalt; 5% cobalt for M35 and T15, and 8% for M42. There's
> also a 10% cobalt version, M48. And the powder-metallurgy "bridge materials"
> (such as CPM Rex 121) contain even larger amounts. You won't see them on the
> retail market, except for gear hobs that cost like crazy. ..."
>
> Great reply, Ed. Hopefully it will help the OP to get out of the "exact material" requirement rut
> and on to more productive, and enjoyable, metalworking.
>
> Bob Swinney
>
>
I second that, great info Ed. Thanks.
I did know that Cobalt tooling was actually HSS with cobalt mixed in..
Only reason I was animate about getting cobalt or carbide is because I'm
trying to drill out some nasty hard bolts, and I know damn well HSS
would snap off in a heartbeat. Just trying to make a simple job a bit
quicker.
Ed Huntress
> On 3/4/2010 9:38 AM, Robert Swinney wrote:
>> Ed sez, (snip, snip)
>>
>> "Cobalt" tools are high speed steel tools. Several high-performance
>> grades
>> of HSS contain cobalt; 5% cobalt for M35 and T15, and 8% for M42. There's
>> also a 10% cobalt version, M48. And the powder-metallurgy "bridge
>> materials"
>> (such as CPM Rex 121) contain even larger amounts. You won't see them on
>> the
>> retail market, except for gear hobs that cost like crazy. ..."
>>
>> Great reply, Ed. Hopefully it will help the OP to get out of the "exact
>> material" requirement rut
>> and on to more productive, and enjoyable, metalworking.
>>
>> Bob Swinney
>>
>>
>
> I second that, great info Ed. Thanks.
>
> I did know that Cobalt tooling was actually HSS with cobalt mixed in..
Ah, good. I post that from time to time, mostly as a help for the hobbyists
who get snowed by the slang terms. I also pipe up when someone mentions
"titanium" or "titanium-coated" or "tin-coated" tools (which actually are
titanium-nitride-coated, or TiN-coated, tools). We're awash in jargon and
slang.
> Only reason I was animate about getting cobalt or carbide is because I'm
> trying to drill out some nasty hard bolts, and I know damn well HSS would
> snap off in a heartbeat. Just trying to make a simple job a bit quicker.
I hope it works. But if ordinary M2 tools will snap, M42 tools will snap
faster (and carbide will snap faster still). M42 is pretty brittle. Where it
has an advantage is primarily in the higher temperatures at which you can
run it, and also in its wear resistance. Those tools can be a bit harder,
too (but not nearly as hard as carbide), which helps with hardened steel.
But they do snap rather easily if your setup isn't rigid.
Good luck with your project.
--
Ed Huntress
Jim Wilkins
> "tnik" <kortjes...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> ...
> > Only reason I was animate about getting cobalt or carbide is because I'm
> > trying to drill out some nasty hard bolts, and I know damn well HSS would
> > snap off in a heartbeat. Just trying to make a simple job a bit quicker.
>
> I hope it works. But if ordinary M2 tools will snap, M42 tools will snap
> faster (and carbide will snap faster still). M42 is pretty brittle. Where it
> has an advantage is primarily in the higher temperatures at which you can
> run it, and also in its wear resistance. Those tools can be a bit harder,
> too (but not nearly as hard as carbide), which helps with hardened steel.
> But they do snap rather easily if your setup isn't rigid.
Snap off???
The generic "cobalt" screw machine length drills I bought from MSC
dull almost as fast as M2 HSS in hardened steel that I can't anneal,
like molded inserts in plastic car parts. I think I've resharpened one
3 or 4 times to drill out one small stuck bolt. That was drilling in a
milling machine. The black ones especially are almost too brittle to
use freehand on a rough fractured bolt.
Have you tried carbide masonry bits?
jsw
Ignoramus17386
socket extension. HSS drill bits simply cannot handle this stuff, they
dull and overheat. It was a good thing that I had carbide drill bits
and a rigid machine to use them, that was the only way I could drill
that socket extension.
i
Ed Huntress
"Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:531b99ea-c42f-4097...@y11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com...
On Mar 4, 12:03 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
> "tnik" <kortjes...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> ...
> > Only reason I was animate about getting cobalt or carbide is because I'm
> > trying to drill out some nasty hard bolts, and I know damn well HSS
> > would
> > snap off in a heartbeat. Just trying to make a simple job a bit quicker.
>
> I hope it works. But if ordinary M2 tools will snap, M42 tools will snap
> faster (and carbide will snap faster still). M42 is pretty brittle. Where
> it
> has an advantage is primarily in the higher temperatures at which you can
> run it, and also in its wear resistance. Those tools can be a bit harder,
> too (but not nearly as hard as carbide), which helps with hardened steel.
> But they do snap rather easily if your setup isn't rigid.
> Ed Huntress
>Snap off???
Yup. Big carbides in M42. Heap brittle.
>
>The generic "cobalt" screw machine length drills I bought from MSC
>dull almost as fast as M2 HSS in hardened steel that I can't anneal,
>like molded inserts in plastic car parts. I think I've resharpened one
>3 or 4 times to drill out one small stuck bolt. That was drilling in a
>milling machine.
As I mentioned, the bit of extra hardness is not the primary virtue of M42.
I'm not surprised that you didn't find a big difference in wear life versus
M2 in hardened steel.
>The black ones especially are almost too brittle to
>use freehand on a rough fractured bolt.
I wouldn't drill freehand with M42 bits. They're not tough enough for that.
>
>Have you tried carbide masonry bits?
I assume you're asking tnik? I haven't, but reading posts here from some
people who have had success with them, I have in mind to give them a try
when the occassion arises.
--
Ed Huntress
>
>jsw
Jim Wilkins
> "Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>
> I assume you're asking tnik?
Yes, the Original Poster. My $6.95/mo + freeware Internet access
doesn't handle scrolling around the posting history very well when I
have a reply in process. However it worked fine through the Northeast
power outage this past weekend when my neighbors' Comcast was down.
> I haven't, but reading posts here from some
> people who have had success with them, I have in mind to give them a try
> when the occassion arises.
> Ed Huntress
I think you need a left-hand drill bit only when there is a good
chance the broken bolt will unscrew. Otherwise right-hand bits work
fine.
jsw
Ecnerwal
Ignoramus17386 <ignoram...@NOSPAM.17386.invalid> wrote:
Warning - crude practical content - may offend the delicately inclined...
A handy, right there in the hardware store carbide bit is the roto-zip
(and similar tools) tile bit. Having broken off a drill bit while
end-drilling a stainless threaded rod (no rigid setup of any kind
available for the purpose) I removed it, still without a ridgid setup of
any kind, using the solid carbide tile bit in a Dremelish tool - and
then kept going to drill the hole (with great care, but also with side
clearance - which was OK for this particular hole).
I'll be happier and have more nice setups when the shop is done, but in
the meantime, crude works sometimes.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
RAM�
>
> "Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
> news:531b99ea-c42f-4097...@y11g2000yqh.googlegroups.com.
They work very well when enlarging rivet holes in heat-treated knife
tangs, etc.
When precision dimensions aren't necessary, they're a cheap way to deal
with a one-off or very low volume task.
Ed Huntress
"RAM�" <s31924...@netscape.net> wrote in message
news:Xns9D3181BB01A39...@74.209.131.10...
Yeah, it makes sense. After all, it's just a carbide spade bit in a steel
shank. If you sharpen it well, I can't see why it won't drill, more or less.
My problem is that I have lots of masonry bits, but few straight ones. <g> I
usually have to whack them straight on an anvil before drilling masonry. I
think I'll try it first with a new one.
--
Ed Huntress
RAM�
>
> "RAM�" <s31924...@netscape.net> wrote in message
> news:Xns9D3181BB01A39...@74.209.131.10...
>> "Ed Huntress" <hunt...@optonline.net> wrote in
>> news:4b8ff3a1$0$4983$607e...@cv.net:
>>
>>>
>>> "Jim Wilkins" <kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:531b99ea-c42f-4097...@y11g2000yqh.googlegroups.co
>>> m. .. On Mar 4, 12:03 pm, "Ed Huntress" <huntre...@optonline.net>
If you don't require a ROUND hole, then a bit of wobble...
After all, in the OP's case the key factor is to be able to insert an
"Easy-Out" rather than do anything that's all that precise. <grin>
tnik
> On Mar 4, 12:53 pm, "Ed Huntress"<huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> "Jim Wilkins"<kb1...@gmail.com> wrote in message
>>> Have you tried carbide masonry bits?
>>
>> On Mar 4, 12:03 pm, "Ed Huntress"<huntre...@optonline.net> wrote:
>> ...
>> I assume you're asking tnik?
>
> Yes, the Original Poster. My $6.95/mo + freeware Internet access
> doesn't handle scrolling around the posting history very well when I
> have a reply in process. However it worked fine through the Northeast
> power outage this past weekend when my neighbors' Comcast was down.
>
I have used masonry bits before.. They work pretty good, not as good as
a carbide endmill tho. But in a pinch their great.
>> I haven't, but reading posts here from some
>> people who have had success with them, I have in mind to give them a try
>> when the occassion arises.
>> Ed Huntress
>
> I think you need a left-hand drill bit only when there is a good
> chance the broken bolt will unscrew. Otherwise right-hand bits work
> fine.
>
> jsw
And you hit the nail on the head there Jim.. I wanted to try the left
handed drill to see if maybe it would unscrew.
tom
RAM�
news:AyUjn.144421$Hq1....@en-nntp-04.dc1.easynews.com:
Another alternative would be a standard, inexpensive, "EasyOut" (aka
screw extractor) in a hole of the appropriate size drilled directly into
the bolt.
Of course, if you're just interested in purchasing a left-hand carbide
bit...
Wes
>I second that, great info Ed. Thanks.
>
>I did know that Cobalt tooling was actually HSS with cobalt mixed in..
>Only reason I was animate about getting cobalt or carbide is because I'm
>trying to drill out some nasty hard bolts, and I know damn well HSS
>would snap off in a heartbeat. Just trying to make a simple job a bit
>quicker.
Maybe you ought to reconsider left hand and carbide.
A while back I had to remove a dowel pin that was broken off flush in a detail that it was
impractical to try to drill an intersecting hole to do the grease and dowel pin trick
(hammer also needed).
So I carefully located the part and used a smaller 2 flute carbide endmill that was going
to cut a hole tangental to the existing dowel pin. So far so good.
Well when I hit bottom, the dowel pin lost tension, the endmill still had a bite and I
watched the Bridgeport table move x and y in about a .25" range until I could hit the stop
switch which came at the same time the R8 collet unscrewed itself from the draw bar.
So when you get a good bite on your bolt and the bolt starts backing up, what is going to
happen to your brittle carbide drill? Likely it is going to snap.
Consider RH tooling, use carbide drill or center cutting end mill sized on minor diameter
of fastener. Pick the remaining threads out.
Wes
Bruce L. Bergman
>"Kirk Gordon" wrote...
>> I know a left-handed tool supplier: but I don't know if he sells
>> left-handed tools.
Good one!
There are a few tools out there where handed-ness does count - like
scissors. A Lefty trying to use Righty scissors - or vice versa - is
a constant fight to keep tension on the blades.
Been there, learned how to trim my right fingernails - eventually...
>Reminds me of my first job in a factory (wireman, progressed to prototype
>wireman in a few months, hated it and moved on)...
>
>The "experienced" guys in the machine shop were always sending newbies to
>the stores for "sparks for the grinder", "left-handed ratchets" etc. I was
>sent for a "metric screwriver" so I popped over the road to the pub, came
>back with 25cc of vodka and 75cc of orange juice in a glass...
First day as new hire kid, Central Office Equipment Installer: "Hey,
Newbie! Go down to the basement and bring us up another bucket of
Dial Tone. We're getting low."
"Oh, goodie! Snipe Hunt! An actual plausible excuse to go
exploring in the basement! See Ya in twenty!!"
And as the smug looks on their faces melt, Grin, Duck, and RUN LIKE
HELL for the back stairs... Fingers in ears, "La La La Laaaa!, I
CAN'T HEAR YOU!..."
Put an end to that cr*p REAL fast. I may be dumb, but that can be
changed with time and experience. Stupid however is not curable.
--<< Bruce >>--
Lewis Hartswick
>
> Been there, learned how to trim my right fingernails - eventually...
>
Years ago I beat that problem with a small pair of flush
cutting diagonal cutters. They go with me in my "first
aid" kit.
...lew...
Wes
> First day as new hire kid, Central Office Equipment Installer: "Hey,
>Newbie! Go down to the basement and bring us up another bucket of
>Dial Tone. We're getting low."
Most guys figured out bucket of prop wash or x number of feet of flight line and even
tamperdots was bs. Sending someone out for the keys to the aircraft sucked them in quite
well.
Wes