Trying to form a Union
Millwright Ron
for trying to form a union every 23 minutes.
Unity
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com
Jon Anderson
> In the United States today, a worker is fired or discriminated against
> for trying to form a union every 23 minutes.
Every place I've worked at where someone started talking
about trying to go union, my response was that I would quit
if they succeeded.
Jon
Gunner
Damit.I thought we had gone to lean manufacturing and had speeded up
the process?
Lets get our cycle times down to a couple minutes per activist.
Gunner
ATP*
"Millwright Ron" <mw...@unionmillwright.com> wrote in message
news:36880675-2665-4bd9...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
You'd think that guy would get the hint after a while.
Louis Ohland
talking about something other than his or her job.
JohnB
"Louis Ohland" <ohl...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:0pirj.11$WF...@newsfe06.lga...
Larry Jaques
Anderson <jande...@comcast.net> quickly quoth:
If I had an employee trying to start a union every 23 minutes instead
of working, I'd fire his ass, too. <titter>
--
Our greatest glory is not in never falling, but in getting up every time we do.
-- Confucius
Louis Ohland
Greg O
news:47adadae$0$7865$607e...@cv.net...
I don't think these union snobs are sharp enough to get it!
For the last 2-3 years the local sheet metal union has been trying to sell
our shop on going union. He stops in, talks to our guys in the AM, hands out
pamphlets at the gate. One Friday after work he brought in pizza and pop to
get us to stay and talk. About 1/2 the workers stayed, and most of them were
there for the free food only. Once the food was gone, he was still talking,
and they walked out. The other day we were all invited to a local bar, free
beer and appetizers. A couple guys showed up. I would have showed too, the
bar has great food, (who does not like good, free food), but I had other
plans.
The owner of the shop has invited the union in to talk the the workers, sets
up dates, and nobody shows up, except for a couple guys.
On the flip side, we have a plumbing shop that is union. When we get caught
up with work they are the first to get laid off while us non-union workers
get put to work cleaning an reorganizing the shop at regular pay. Allot of
good the union does there!
Greg
*
Millwright Wrong <mw...@unionmillwright.com> wrote in article
<36880675-2665-4bd9...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com>...
> In the United States today, a worker is fired or discriminated against
> for trying to form a union every 23 minutes.
>
> Millwright Wrong
> union shill
If you ask me, that's FAR too lenient. The SOBs ought to be shot!!!!
Ask ANYBODY who has worked in both union and non-union shops and they will
tell you that their angriest co-workers were the union idiots who allow the
union brass to convince them that things are, somehow, worse than they
actually are.
I'd rather spend my own money on myself instead of paying for some union
president and a few of his goons to vacation in the tropics.
Roger
Historically the Union movement has created some of the great social
advances in the OECD countries - try universal free education was Union
inspired, universal health coverage (still a dream in the US) came from the
health cooperatives setup by miners in Germany and Wales. Most health,
safety and environment legislation was drafted by the union movements who
often have a wider view of whats happening. The UKs clean Air/clean Water
legislation came from the Labour movement post WW2. Practically every OECD
country has examples of Unions enabling a better way of life, not just for
employees but for the wider population.
The other thing that a lot of employers fail to realise that in many
instances having a Unionised workforce is actually easier to administer -
one collective agreement instead of individual contracts - usually where
more than 50 employees are concerned.
Australia introduced Union busting legislation about 3 years ago, forcing
individual contracts of employment. Industrial accidents have dramatically
increased over the last 2 years, one industry has had 23 fatalities since
Jan 1 this year because of the piece rate payment methods that encourage
employees to cut corners but indemnify the employer from unsafe work
practices. Fortunately the new Government will be rescinding the
legislation.
Bruce L. Bergman
Every place I've ever worked that was union, the usual reason was
that the Management is (or was at one time, or is perceived to be)
abusive to the employees and DESERVED to be saddled with a Union to
get proper treatment.
Or it is a job with significant workplace hazards, and the employer
paid lip-service to safety and treated all employees as 'disposable
assets' till the Union got in and forced reforms.
Problem with that is, now that the Union is firmly entrenched in the
abusive workplace the cure turns out to be as bad as the disease, if
not worse. The Shop Stewards and Union Local Officials usually turn
out to be the biggest Fsck-ups in the whole place, because they know
they can almost literally get away with murder.
One Shop Steward left his empty little 1/2 Ounce brown glass
screw-top bottle (that had his daily Nose Candy in it) on the
dashboard of a communal parked truck at a Shiftwork manhole cable
splicing job, and damn near got everyone working at the site (three
shifts round the clock) hauled in to pee in a bottle. Luckily, the
Supervisor realized what was really going on and pragmatically
developed a case of temporary amnesia...
Another Steward got busted, arrested and fired for drugs - but they
kept him on the payroll 100% at the Local doing office work until all
the appeals were exhausted, and even past that until the complaints
got too loud...
Apparently, between the Co. pay and the Union pay, they were being
paid too much, and had to spread around the largesse to support their
local drug dealer.
The pendulum swings... Then it swings back... Forward... Back...
--<< Bruce >>--
co_f...@yahoo.com
Sounds like the counter view point is not a union member. How about
some personal experience stories, Roger.
Paul
Tom Gardner
"Millwright Ron" <mw...@unionmillwright.com> wrote in message
news:36880675-2665-4bd9...@v4g2000hsf.googlegroups.com...
...and, every 23 minutes a manufacturing firm fractures it's activities and
outsources some jobs overseas. Every 23 minutes a number of union jobs are
replaced with automation. Every 23 minutes a union lowers the bar for
excellence in manufacturing to the point of drug and alcohol saturated union
employees, secure in their employment, set the standard.
I went from a high of 80 employees twenty years ago to 15 today and doubled
sales. Motivated by a parasitic union, our thrust into automation in addition
to outsourcing to non-union companies has eliminated these union jobs. The last
machine we built will eliminated another union job and the next will eliminate
two more. The union has priced themselves right out of the job market! I wish
I could eliminate a union job every 23 minutes! Hurray for unions!!!
Roger
> Sounds like the counter view point is not a union member. How about
> some personal experience stories, Roger.
>
> Paul
I was a Union member, have held a couple of voluntary union posts, became a
manager and could not retain Union membership. I dont see Unions as a
threat, if you are a proactive manager the bulk of Union "issues" are non
events as you have already sorted them - eg Health and Safety is a
management task, not a Unions officials. Unions are a fact of life, good
managers cope with them, just like you deal with customers, suppliers or bad
weather. Thats what managers are paid to do, well they do where I worked.
Some Unions certainly live in the past - notably the ones representing the
"old" industries (heavy engineering, mining, refining) who have hung onto
overmanning and under skilling. The Unions that had the foresight to
encourage increased skills (electrical trades for one) and encouraged
employers and employees to adapt to new technology have actually increased
their membership and the wages and profits of the companies they work with.
There is an increasing number of employers who see the threat from third
world countries as a chance to just lower wages and revert to the 19th
Century, rather than develop a skilled, literate and numerate workforce who
cant be bettered by third world workshops - Boeing, Thales, BAE, etc. are
good examples. Plus some niche markets - I know of a printer who has
developed security tags for the retail industry, he used to employ about ten
printer/labourers, now employs about 50 with electronics backgrounds who
produce high tech materials.
Wes
>I went from a high of 80 employees twenty years ago to 15 today and doubled
>sales. Motivated by a parasitic union, our thrust into automation in addition
>to outsourcing to non-union companies has eliminated these union jobs. The last
>machine we built will eliminated another union job and the next will eliminate
>two more. The union has priced themselves right out of the job market! I wish
>I could eliminate a union job every 23 minutes! Hurray for unions!!!
My first serious encounter with automation was when an engineer bought a
used GMF (GM Fanuc) robot to perform a task with out realizing that actually
getting it to do the task was outside his skill set. Being a former radar
tech and a computer geek (pre-msdos), getting it to work was interesting but
not terribly challenging.
That marriage of General Motors and Fanuc was one of GM's investments
designed to get many high priced bodies out of their factories.
It is a fact of life that a workers wage + benefits x number of shifts x pay
back period is the budget for eliminating that job.
Which is why you always want to upgrade your skills.
Wes
MK1
Michael A. Terrell
Impossible. If he were that smart he would have never joined a union.
Just plonk the sad, lobotomized bastard and get on with your life.
--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.
Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida
Tom Gardner
"Roger" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:p7Arj.13130$421....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
My union isn't really a problem but I was told that when I go to sell the
company, I can expect 20% less than if I didn't have a union.
Hawke
"Tom Gardner" <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote in message
news:Pqxrj.56817$Pv2....@newssvr23.news.prodigy.net...
Yes, that's right, blame the union any time you can. Maybe if you and others
in management work hard enough you can eliminate unions altogether. That's
been the goal and desire of management for 100 years. Like your predecessors
you are still at it. I'm sure you would be glad to hire people if they just
hadn't priced themselves out of work. Say if they would work for you for
three dollars an hour or so and without benefits then you would be hiring
instead of firing. Oh for the good old days of 1.35 an hour minimum wage.
Just like a conservative, wanting to return to some magical time when the
world was better. What a fairy tale. Just like your entire anti union
rantings.
Hawke
Hawke
"Roger" <som...@microsoft.com> wrote in message
news:p7Arj.13130$421....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> >
See, old Tom is against unions for the same reason all management is, it's
their greed. Unions make companies cough up a share of the profits for the
workers and that comes out of the pockets of shareholders and management.
Tom says he would get less for a union company than a non union one. That's
pretty simple isn't it. It's all about money and the unions having to force
companies to share the wealth is what it's all about because corporations
and businesses are always greedy. Look at the writers guild strike that is
just being settled. The big shots didn't want to cut the writers in on any
of the profits they were making selling on the internet. The only thing that
made them relent was a strike. Which just proves that without a union to
bargain for the workers the bosses would screw them just like they did in
the 1930s. For them nothing has changed. Without unions workers have to
compete against businesses all alone and they get the short end of the stick
every time. Just like always. It's easy to see why all the right wing
businessmen are anti union isn't it?
Hawke
NewsGroups
"Hawke" <desmi...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
news:13qvrs9...@corp.supernews.com...
That would be wonderful.
Tom Gardner
Once again, you have NO IDEA what you are talking about. You have obviously
never held ANY type of responsible position and have most likely been protected
by a union that otherwise your lack of marketable skills would have had you
dismissed from even the most menial jobs. You have NO concept that companies
DON'T exist for the sole benefit of hired workers. Socialism NEVER worked in
the past, you think that it'll work THIS time. Fool...
Tom Gardner
pay $100 labor for $80 worth of salable goods. You'd starve if you had to rely
on your skills to eat. Go check the tire pressure on your house!
Roger
representation in their calculations, accountants usually look at the
balance sheet with a 5 year or less payback on the capital outlay plus a 15%
return or better on the capital as operating profit each year. If you are
getting less than that its not a business, its an expensive hobby.
Its interesting how poorly performing businesses focus on labour costs, when
the costs of labour may only be 10% or less of the turnover for the
business. But the managers think nothing of carrying inventory worth more
than the annual wages bill, or persist with machines made in the 1950s. They
cut labour costs relentlessly, the numbers look big, but they have minimal
impact on the profits of the company (cutting 10% off wages will have a less
than 1% impact on profits if wages are 10% of turnover - assuming turnover
stays the same).
Get back to manufacturing basics, read Juran - learn how he took Japan (and
Asia) from an industrial wreck in 1945 into the power house it is today. Its
not new, an American industrial engineer turned Japan around with 1940s
wartime US production methods, but is almost unknown and unread in the USA.
Millwright Ron
wrote:
It is hard to argue with the facts
U.S. workers who belong to unions earn 30 percent more than non-union
workers.
Bureau of Labor Statistics, "Union Members in 2006, Table 2. Median
weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers by union
affiliation and selected characteristics." Current Population Survey,
January 2007
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com
Tom Gardner
<snip>
I am surprised that anyone buying a business would even include union
representation in their calculations, accountants usually look at the
balance sheet with a 5 year or less payback on the capital outlay plus a 15%
return or better on the capital as operating profit each year. If you are
getting less than that its not a business, its an expensive hobby.
Return on capital is not return on sales, you didn't make that point clear.
How could you possibly think that a union isn't a negative to potential buyers?
> Get back to manufacturing basics, read Juran - learn how he took Japan (and
> Asia) from an industrial wreck in 1945 into the power house it is today. Its
> not new, an American industrial engineer turned Japan around with 1940s
> wartime US production methods, but is almost unknown and unread in the USA.
>
During the 1980's Japan was seen to be a manufacturing powerhouse while American
industry was struggling to keep pace. It was strongly believed that Japanese
manufacturing techniques were uniquely developed for and suited to the Japanese
culture, and thus unsuited for American culture.
The release of the whitepaper showed that the Japanese techniques were, in fact,
taught to Japanese manufacturers by an W. Edwards Deming, whose beliefs had been
largely ignored by American management. Deming had a LOT more to do with the
reformation of Japan's manufacturing and their production philosophy!
Gunner Asch
<mw...@unionmillwright.com> wrote:
>*****************************************************
>
>It is hard to argue with the facts
>
>U.S. workers who belong to unions earn 30 percent more than non-union
>workers.
>
>Bureau of Labor Statistics, "Union Members in 2006, Table 2. Median
>weekly earnings of full-time wage and salary workers by union
>affiliation and selected characteristics." Current Population Survey,
>January 2007
>
>Millwright Ron
>www.unionmillwright.com
Indeed they do.
Damn sad they dont actually deserve that 30%
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
Dave Hinz
> On Mon, 11 Feb 2008 17:01:47 -0800 (PST), Millwright Ron
><mw...@unionmillwright.com> wrote:
>
>>It is hard to argue with the facts
>>U.S. workers who belong to unions earn 30 percent more than non-union
>>workers.
> Indeed they do.
> Damn sad they dont actually deserve that 30%
I wonder if Ron has examples of senior IT professionals making this
alleged 30% bump. I'm guessing not.
Louis Ohland
How much automation is trying to reduce the cost of union workers?
Jon Anderson
> It is hard to argue with the facts
>
> U.S. workers who belong to unions earn 30 percent more than non-union
> workers.
Those union workers that still have jobs that is....
Jon
Hawke
As expected, you couldn't refute what I said so you had no choice but to
assume negative things about me (incorrectly) and make nasty personal
comments. What I said was perfectly true but you didn't like the truth so
you made personal attacks instead. But what else could you do? When you
can't come up with the facts to win an argument use a personal attack. Just
what I thought you would do. Your type is so predictable it's really boring.
Hawke
Hawke
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com
Don't confuse them with facts. They learned what they know from their
ignorant, biased, racist, fathers at the kitchen table when they were kids
and nothing has changed for them since then. Once these guys are told
something by their daddy they go to their graves believing it no matter what
facts they learn later on in life. I've seen it over and over. It's how
republicans are created. Their dads make them at the kitchen table and
they're set in stone for life.
Hawke
Bill
Rabid Union Supporters are the Same as Rabid Welfare Supporters.
Both feel they are entitled to what they get.
Both call you racist and bigoted if you disagree with them.
Both fight tooth and nail to keep everyone on the dole whether they
deserve it or not.
And both get really pissed off if you try and make them work for the money.
I would rather be paid for skill than seniority.
God what a way to get a promotion, waiting for someone to die or retire.
Thank God Texas is a right to work state.
Everything Ive seen working around unions makes me sick. A group of
people where no one dares to excel, where everyone sinks into mediocrity.
Bill
Tom Gardner
What you said was crap not truth! And, insulting to anybody that actually
provides jobs and actually has real wealth invested. Your socialist bunk don't
cut it. What makes you think that people are ENTITLED to other people's assets?
Michael A. Terrell
>
> It is hard to argue with the facts
>
> U.S. workers who belong to unions earn 30 percent more than non-union
> workers.
Then explain why the highest paying jobs in any company aren't union
jobs. Or can't you deal with the facts?
azotic
> Unions make companies cough up a share of the profits for
> the workers and that comes out of the pockets of shareholders and
> management.
If workers want to share in the profits they can simply become shareholders
themselves.
Best Regards
Tom.
Michael A. Terrell
That would take both brains and guts. If they had those, they would
own a business.
Tom Gardner
Millwright Ron
wrote:> > "Hawke" <desmith...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
> >news:13r25f1...@corp.supernews.com...
>
> >> Unions make companies cough up a share of the profits for
> >> the workers and that comes out of the pockets of shareholders and
> >> management.
>
> > If workers want to share in the profits they can simply become shareholders
> > themselves.
>
> > Best Regards
> > Tom.
>
> Drum roll please!
****************************************************************
Here is your Drum Roll
"We are living in the most selfish generation in the history of this
country," "Their agenda is a race to the bottom line of cheap wages,
a race to the bottom of retirement and health care and education."
"How can you as a CEO take a huge bonus and then five months later
watch your pensions fall apart?" he asked. "What has to be inside such
a person?"
GREED
Ton knows Best
Millwright Ron
Michael A. Terrell
Wouldn't a beer barrel be more appropriate for those union types?
--
My sig file can beat up your sig file!
azotic
GREED
Your right all those greedy workers that have 401K's and self directed IRA's
are demanding higher profits.
Wanna bet some of those greedy bastards are union members ?
Best Regards
Tom.
Proud to be a CEO union member.
Millwright Ron
>
> - Show quoted text -
********************************************************************
Toxic People:
We have met them in the hallways of our workplaces -- the "toxic"
people, poisoning the work environment with their anger or cynicism or
excessive criticism of others.
You can identify them since they act as if the only agenda that
matters is their own personal agenda, and the only time that counts is
theirs. We know them by their rudeness in meetings, or their inability
to find the good in any ideas other than their own, or their laser-
like ability to find fault without seeming to ever give credit.
The world revolves around them and they are unwilling to really
examine the impact of their behavior on others. These people are
"toxic" in that their impact on those around them, especially when in
critical positions of responsibility, is that they poison trust,
trample good will, destroy self-esteem and rot the fabric of
teamwork.
They cost industry and government billions of dollars in lost
opportunities, re-work, extra sick leave and errors they engender due
to the problems in communication, lowered collaboration, mistrust,
frustration and fear in their wake.
What gives? Can't they and the powers that be see the effects of their
toxicity? Why are they tolerated, and how in the heck did they get to
be where they are today?
The answer is that if you were a star producer, or very bright and
capable, working hard and getting results then you were often promoted
in spite of the way you treated other people or damaged working
relationships around you.
After all, we traditionally have measured how long you worked and what
you were able to accomplish with little attention on how you helped or
hurt the working relationships, trust and collaborative networks
around you.
This was poor management and even poorer leadership. In the words of
Jack Welch, the recently retired CEO of GE, "We must insist on people
keeping their commitments (getting results) as well as those who
demonstrate the values (valuing relationship development.)"
He further stated that those who only got the results but damaged
relationships consistently were like a cancer in an organization.
Yet, the days of the toxic individual are numbered. There is
increasingly less tolerance for their fits of temper or constant
criticism or inflated self-importance or disrespectful behavior.
The reasons are two fold. First, as all of us have noticed, the world
is changing dramatically. The global marketplace is more dynamic,
demanding and less tolerant of mistakes and those who are slow to
assimilate lessons or to adapt to changing conditions and customer
demands.
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Toxic People:
>
> We have met them in the hallways of our workplaces -- the "toxic"
> people, poisoning the work environment with their anger or cynicism or
> excessive criticism of others.
Yes, and they were trying to form a union no one else wanted. Very
annoying idiots who didn't know when to shut up and leave well enough
alone.
Hawke
Why should they have to become shareholders to share in the profits? After
all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services that
creates the profits to begin with. We all know it's not the owners and
management who actually produce anything. Workers should profit from what
they contribute to the success of the business and without them there is no
business. The Hollywood producers just found that out. No writers, no makie
money. No workers, no makie money. Owners just don't want to be fair they
want the workers to do all the work and give them nothing so they can keep
all the profits for themselves. That isn't exactly a secret. It's been going
on for centuries.
Hawke
Hawke
********************************************************************
Toxic People:
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com
We get your point. But you could have said the same thing in a lot fewer
words. I think I can be a little more concise. What you are trying to say is
that Tom and other businessmen like him are "dicks". Like most bosses he's a
self centered, petty, tyrant. He cares more about himself and his money than
anything else in the world especially other people. He has little sympathy
for workers and sees them as being members of an inferior class. Quite
simply, he's a dick. That about covers it. One sure way of knowing he's a
dick is that he probably voted for George Bush too.
Hawke
Gunner Asch
So whats the MDS on Unions?
Tom Gardner
What's preventing anyone from opening their own enterprise or buying stock in
one? Workers are entitled to a paycheck for their time...nothing more. They
don't like it, there's the door, they are free to go find a job that pays more.
Unions are extortion organizations, nothing more. Workers have no investment at
risk, no responsibility for company obligations yet you say they are entitled to
profits over and above what is contracted for? Go check the pressure on your
home's tires, clueless, socialist DICK!!!
azotic
>
> "Tom Gardner" <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote in message
> news:Mnmsj.7088$R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
>>
>> "azotic" <azo...@cox.net> wrote in message
>> news:MPcsj.4470$H05...@newsfe06.phx...
>> >
>> > "Hawke" <desmi...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
>> > news:13r25f1...@corp.supernews.com...
>> >
>> >> Unions make companies cough up a share of the profits for
>> >> the workers and that comes out of the pockets of shareholders and
>> >> management.
>> >
>> > If workers want to share in the profits they can simply become
> shareholders
>> > themselves.
>> >
>> > Best Regards
>> > Tom.
> Why should they have to become shareholders to share in the profits?
Because shareholders are legaly entitled to a share of the company profits,
the shareholders own the company not the workers.
Only thieves plot thier evil deeds to aquire what rightfully belongs to
others.
> After all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services
> that
> creates the profits to begin with.
Which is why management is happy to give them a paycheck on a regular basis
for what they produce.
>We all know it's not the owners and management who actually produce
>anything.
You should discuss that with millright ron, he is a bussiness owner.
>Workers should profit from what they contribute to the success of the
>business and without them there is no
> business.
Plenty of people selling on ebay do exactley that. Wait a minute that cant
be right they are owners and management
they produce nothing, thier not entitled to a profit.
Best Regards
Tom.
Michael A. Terrell
>
> We get your point. But you could have said the same thing in a lot fewer
> words. I think I can be a little more concise. What you are trying to say is
> that Tom and other businessmen like him are "dicks". Like most bosses he's a
> self centered, petty, tyrant. He cares more about himself and his money than
> anything else in the world especially other people. He has little sympathy
> for workers and sees them as being members of an inferior class. Quite
> simply, he's a dick. That about covers it. One sure way of knowing he's a
> dick is that he probably voted for George Bush too.
>
> Hawke
You sure spend a lot of time thinking about dicks, pervert.
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Why should they have to become shareholders to share in the profits? After
> all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services that
> creates the profits to begin with. We all know it's not the owners and
> management who actually produce anything. Workers should profit from what
> they contribute to the success of the business and without them there is no
> business. The Hollywood producers just found that out. No writers, no makie
> money. No workers, no makie money. Owners just don't want to be fair they
> want the workers to do all the work and give them nothing so they can keep
> all the profits for themselves. That isn't exactly a secret. It's been going
> on for centuries.
Idiot. those workers didn't raise the capital, or spend years
building the business, unless it is employee owned. They get what they
deserve. No more and no less. Not one of them would take those risks,
or they would own a business, not work for it.
Gunner Asch
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Hawke wrote:
>>
>> We get your point. But you could have said the same thing in a lot fewer
>> words. I think I can be a little more concise. What you are trying to say is
>> that Tom and other businessmen like him are "dicks". Like most bosses he's a
>> self centered, petty, tyrant. He cares more about himself and his money than
>> anything else in the world especially other people. He has little sympathy
>> for workers and sees them as being members of an inferior class. Quite
>> simply, he's a dick. That about covers it. One sure way of knowing he's a
>> dick is that he probably voted for George Bush too.
>>
>> Hawke
>
>
> You sure spend a lot of time thinking about dicks, pervert.
Didnt you know? The Parakeet is a 20 yr old fagboi who lives in his
mothers basement and has these delusions that he knows "dick" in other
than the swallowing mode.
Gunner
Gunner Asch
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Hawke wrote:
>>
>> Why should they have to become shareholders to share in the profits? After
>> all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services that
>> creates the profits to begin with. We all know it's not the owners and
>> management who actually produce anything. Workers should profit from what
>> they contribute to the success of the business and without them there is no
>> business. The Hollywood producers just found that out. No writers, no makie
>> money. No workers, no makie money. Owners just don't want to be fair they
>> want the workers to do all the work and give them nothing so they can keep
>> all the profits for themselves. That isn't exactly a secret. It's been going
>> on for centuries.
>
>
> Idiot. those workers didn't raise the capital, or spend years
>building the business, unless it is employee owned. They get what they
>deserve. No more and no less. Not one of them would take those risks,
>or they would own a business, not work for it.
The workers perform a service, for which they are renumerated at a
mutally agreed upon rate. They provide a service for which someone
else is willing to pay a certain amount.
The Parakeet and the other closet socialists like Millwrong Ron
believe that if you pay to get your carpets cleaned, the carpet
cleaning company now deserves a financial interest in your house.
Lew Hartswick
> After
> all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services that
> creates the profits to begin with.
I think you are overlooking the fact that there wouldn't be a place to
work if the investors hadent put up the money to start the place.
> Hawke
...lew...
*
Michael A. Terrell <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in article
<47B2A9F5...@earthlink.net>...
> Hawke wrote:
> >
> > Why should they have to become shareholders to share in the profits?
After
> > all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services
that
> > creates the profits to begin with. We all know it's not the owners and
> > management who actually produce anything. Workers should profit from
what
> > they contribute to the success of the business and without them there
is no
> > business. The Hollywood producers just found that out. No writers, no
makie
> > money. No workers, no makie money. Owners just don't want to be fair
they
> > want the workers to do all the work and give them nothing so they can
keep
> > all the profits for themselves. That isn't exactly a secret. It's been
going
> > on for centuries.
>
>
> Idiot. those workers didn't raise the capital, or spend years
> building the business, unless it is employee owned. They get what they
> deserve. No more and no less. Not one of them would take those risks,
> or they would own a business, not work for it.
>
>
I also suspect that ANY business owner in his right mind that had a group
of employees constantly threatening to shut the place down with a strike
would have no choice but to squirrel away every dime he could extract from
the company in the chance that this great union that is "protecting" the
workers manages to put their employer out of business......and the very
members it claims to be protecting out of work!
Millwright Ron
> > > In the United States today, a worker is fired or discriminated against
> > > for trying to form a union every 23 minutes.
> > > Unity
> > > Millwright Ron
> > >www.unionmillwright.com
>
> > You'd think that guy would get the hint after a while.
>
> Impossible. If he were that smart he would have never joined a union.
> Just plonk the sad, lobotomized bastard and get on with your life.
>
> Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
> prove it.
> Member of DAV #85.
>
> Michael A. Terrell
> Central Florida
**************************
Good morning to the TV repairman terrell...
Toxic People
We have met them in the hallways of our workplaces -- the "toxic"
people, poisoning the work environment with their anger or cynicism
or excessive criticism of others.
You can identify them since they act as if the only agenda that
matters is their own personal agenda, and the only time that counts
is theirs. We know them by their rudeness in meetings, or their
inability to find the good in any ideas other than their own, or
their laser-like ability to find fault without seeming to ever give
Millwright Ron
wrote:
Michael A. Terrell
AKA the TV repairman....
Are you still scaming Combat wounded Veterans sellong them worn out
computers.
I heard that you got black listed a the V.A. hospital
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Good morning
Hey, Ronnie, you old union pusher! Tell us something. If unions are
perfect why did the employees at Microdyne vote them out, just a couple
years after voting them in?
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Michael A. Terrell
> AKA the TV repairman....
> Are you still scaming Combat wounded Veterans sellong them worn out
> computers.
> I heard that you got black listed a the V.A. hospital
More proof that belonging to a union destroys your mind. It's really
sad. Not only are your lies extremely lame, you have a poor grasp of
the English language.
BTW, I am working on becoming a non profit corporation, which means
that every detail of the project will be in the public record. That is
something a union will never do.
Michael A. Terrell
>
> I also suspect that ANY business owner in his right mind that had a group
> of employees constantly threatening to shut the place down with a strike
> would have no choice but to squirrel away every dime he could extract from
> the company in the chance that this great union that is "protecting" the
> workers manages to put their employer out of business......and the very
> members it claims to be protecting out of work!
The only thing any union is interested in is the leaders making money
off the people who join. It's a modern version of the old protection
rackets. Sort of a legalized Ponzi Scheme.
Michael A. Terrell
>
> The workers perform a service, for which they are renumerated at a
> mutally agreed upon rate. They provide a service for which someone
> else is willing to pay a certain amount.
>
> The Parakeet and the other closet socialists like Millwrong Ron
> believe that if you pay to get your carpets cleaned, the carpet
> cleaning company now deserves a financial interest in your house.
I'll bet that's not the only thing they hide in their closets! :(
Millwright Ron
wrote:
*****************************************
Hello to you Mike:
I have no idea why Microdyne voted them out but the employees had the
opportunity to vote. That is what's important. The right to vote and
the right to vote with out fear of threats. We should all be allowed
to vote. It is not union verse non-union. It is about the right to
chose.
79% of workers agreed that workers are "very" or "somewhat" likely to
be fired for trying to organize a union.
Brent Garren, "When the Solution Is the Problem: NLRB Remedies and
Organizing Drives," 51 Labor Law Journal 76, 78; 2000
78%of workers during union organizing drives are forced to attend
closed-door or isolated meetings with supervisors.
Kate Bronfenbrenner, "Uneasy Terrain: The Impact of Capital Mobility
on Workers, Wages and Union Organizing," U.S. Trade Deficit Review
Commission, 2000.
12%of U.S. workers have a union in their workplace, but 53% of U.S.
workers would like one.
U.S. Department of Labor, Bureau of Labor Statistics, "Union Members
in 2006," Current Population Survey, January 2007. Peter D. Hart
Research Associates, December 2006.
49%of employers illegally threaten to close a worksite during union
organizing drives if workers choose to form a union.
Chirag Mehta and Nik Theodore, Undermining the Right to Organize:
Employer Behavior During Union Representation Campaigns, Center for
Urban Economic Development, University of Illinois at Chicago, Dec.
2005.
91%of employers force employees to attend one-on-one anti-union
meetings with their supervisors during union organizing drives.
Chirag Mehta and Nik Theodore, Undermining the Right to Organize:
Employer Behavior During Union Representation Campaigns, Center for
Urban Economic Development, University of Illinois at Chicago, Dec.
2005
42 millionemployees who are not represented by a union would like to
have representation at work. Richard Freeman and Joel Rogers, "A
Proposal to American Labor," The Nation, June 24, 2002; Freeman and
Rogers, What Workers Want, ILR Press, 1999.
23%of workers in majority sign-up campaigns report management coercion
to oppose the union. Adrienne Eaton, Ph.D. of Rutgers University, and
Jill Kriesky, Ph.D. of Wheeling Jesuit University Fact Over Fiction
March 2006.
23%of workers in majority sign-up campaigns report management coercion
to oppose the union.
Adrienne Eaton, Ph.D. of Rutgers University, and Jill Kriesky, Ph.D.
of Wheeling Jesuit University Fact Over Fiction March 2006.
Millwright Ron
www.unionmillwright.com
Michael A. Terrell
>
> On Feb 13, 11:14 am, "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.terr...@earthlink.net>
> wrote:
> > Millwright Ron wrote:
> >
> > > Good morning
> >
> > Hey, Ronnie, you old union pusher! Tell us something. If unions are
> > perfect why did the employees at Microdyne vote them out, just a couple
> > years after voting them in?
> >
> > --
> > Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
> > prove it.
> > Member of DAV #85.
> >
> > Michael A. Terrell
> > Central Florida
>
> *****************************************
> Hello to you Mike:
>
> I have no idea why Microdyne voted them out but the employees had the
> opportunity to vote. That is what's important. The right to vote and
> the right to vote with out fear of threats. We should all be allowed
> to vote. It is not union verse non-union. It is about the right to
> chose.
They voted it out because they realized they had been lied to, and
were being screwed by the union. Things they had taken for granted were
no longer available like flex time, or being able to work in another
department instead of being laid off when the workload changed. No flex
time, they had to use time clocks, and were docked for being late. No
free meals to celebrate landing new contracts, and no bonus checks.
All of which means nothing to people who can think for themselves.
Tom Gardner
GREED
Where's that huge bonus you promised me? Hell, I'd settle for the paychecks
I didn't get while making sure my employees did. Or reimbursed for cash
advances on credit cards to make payroll. You are clueless.
Greg O
news:47B35220...@earthlink.net...
> >
>
> They voted it out because they realized they had been lied to, and
> were being screwed by the union. Things they had taken for granted were
> no longer available like flex time, or being able to work in another
> department instead of being laid off when the workload changed. No flex
> time, they had to use time clocks, and were docked for being late. No
> free meals to celebrate landing new contracts, and no bonus checks.
>
>
>
>>
It is funny that I work in a shop with union plumbers, but the rest of the
shop is non-union, and looks to stay that way. The union guys are treated
like outside hired help, no keys to the shop, company trucks are left at the
shop, and when work gets slow, they get laid off. On the other hand us
non-union guys have keys, company trucks we drive home, and full use of the
shop after hours. Also when work gets slow, the boss keeps us around doing
matainance in the shop, what ever it takes to keep us around and a paycheck
coming.
Greg
William Wixon
"Greg O" <goo19...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Q3Lsj.162165$9w2.1...@fe12.news.easynews.com...
> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
> news:47B35220...@earthlink.net...
>> >
>
> shop is non-union, and looks to stay that way. The union guys are treated
> like outside hired help, no keys to the shop, company trucks are left at
> the shop, and when work gets slow, they get laid off. On the other hand us
> non-union guys have keys, company trucks we drive home, and full use of
> the shop after hours. Also when work gets slow, the boss keeps us around
> doing matainance in the shop, what ever it takes to keep us around and a
> paycheck coming.
> Greg
no surprise there. would be an interesting experiment to see what would
happen if the union guys went away.
b.w.
Ed Huntress
"William Wixon" <wwi...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:NwMsj.4135$7d1....@news01.roc.ny...
>
> "Greg O" <goo19...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Q3Lsj.162165$9w2.1...@fe12.news.easynews.com...
>> "Michael A. Terrell" <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
>> news:47B35220...@earthlink.net...
>>> >
>>
>> It is funny that I work in a shop with union plumbers, but the rest of
>> the shop is non-union, and looks to stay that way. The union guys are
>> treated like outside hired help, no keys to the shop, company trucks are
>> left at the shop, and when work gets slow, they get laid off. On the
>> other hand us non-union guys have keys, company trucks we drive home, and
>> full use of the shop after hours. Also when work gets slow, the boss
>> keeps us around doing matainance in the shop, what ever it takes to keep
>> us around and a paycheck coming.
>> Greg
>
Unless there are factors involved other than the ones you're telling us, it
seems pretty clear that your employer is in violation of the NLRA, Section
8. That's a pretty heavy offense.
--
Ed Huntress
Tom Gardner
They did it again, I'm ashamed that I got baited by the low end. Tell me more
about your NFP!
Millwright Ron
wrote:
> > > In the United States today, a worker is fired or discriminated against
> > > for trying to form a union every 23 minutes.
> > > Unity
> > > Millwright Ron
> > >www.unionmillwright.com
>
> > You'd think that guy would get the hint after a while.
>
> Impossible. If he were that smart he would have never joined a union.
> Just plonk the sad, lobotomized bastard and get on with your life.
>
> Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
> prove it.
> Member of DAV #85.
>
> Michael A. Terrell
> Central Florida
What do you know about a collins r390?
Millwright Ron
Michael A. Terrell
>
> "Michael A. Terrell" wrote:
> >
> > BTW, I am working on becoming a non profit corporation, which means
> > that every detail of the project will be in the public record. That is
> > something a union will never do.
>
> about your NFP!
Don't worry about it. We've all stepped on a roach, or three. ;)
I am working to formalize what started as a hobby project. I collect
and repair computers, then give them away. I can't give receipts for
donations, so it is currently treated as a scrap metal recycling
project, that I manage to build some computers out of. After it becomes
a legal entity, I can give receipts, and collect a better grade of
computer parts. It will also give some protection against outside
attacks, like the bipolar loser who was telephoning threats from Oregon.
The next part of the project is a lot bigger, and will add a large
website project to deal with all the Veteran activities in my part of
Florida. Most people are as ignorant as 'Roundhouse Ronnie' about what
Veterans do for their communities, and I intend to make it obvious to
even the dumbest character in the region. They bitch about all the fund
raising, without realizing it goes into thins like retirement homes, and
scholarships for the local high school kids, when they start college.
Even the school board is clueless about that project.
Any money it takes in will be split between several projects, like
"Veteran's and Family Services" which helps Veterans who fall between
the many cracks in the VA system, and to help the thousands of homeless
Veterans in the area. Veteran's and Family Services collects food and
clothes, as well as what cash they can, but they are always running out
of something. They screen the Veterans who get the computers I repair.
When they don't have anyone on their list, I give the equipment to other
disabled or low income people in my area.
The homeless Veterans that want to get a job, clean up their act and
return to the real working world need a lot of help, starting with a
mailing address, a telephone to call about jobs, a place to shower, and
a place to lock up their few belongings. After they find work, they can
afford to buy an old car or truck to get to and from work. Right now
they are living in the Ocala National Forest. Most of them were rounded
up in northern cites and put on a bus for Florida, with instructions to
the drivers to not let them off the bus until they were well into
Florida.
Michael A. Terrell
>
> What do you know about a collins r390?
That it was built by Collins and other contractors. Excellent
design, and a decent performing HF radio. Fair Radio in Lima Ohio still
had some spare parts listed. It isn't easy to repair, because it was
built for depot level maintenance. There are several experts on the
news:rec.antiques.radio+phono and news:rec.radio.amateur.boatanchors
newsgroups.
http://www.fairradio.com/catalog.php?mode=search&query=390
My current project is a full restoration of a National NC183R, and a
HP 312B.
Louis Ohland
Millwright Ron
wrote:
***********************************
Mike:
Thank you for helping our Veterans.
Millwright Ron
Vietnam
68,69,70
Tom Gardner
Cool! Microsoft and other software companies have programs to supply software
to charity donated computers, as you probably know. I know a lot of companies
donate a lot of equipment to charity, some only a couple of years old...better
than what we have in the office! Best of luck!
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Cool! Microsoft and other software companies have programs to supply software
> to charity donated computers, as you probably know. I know a lot of companies
> donate a lot of equipment to charity, some only a couple of years old...better
> than what we have in the office! Best of luck!
Thank You. There is a local group that has the microsoft approval
and does computers for churches and other religious groups, but they
charge for the equipment. I have been working with windows 98 SE and
ME, because they are abandoned OS. I dig through the spare hard drives
to find a drive to match the COA on the cabinet. I won't install or
upgrade the OS beyond what it was licensed for. About 25% of the
donated computers can be used to build working systems. I have finally
started seeing a few XP computers. I had a local construction company
drop off all of their Dell computers with 2000 pro, and one XP,
recently. It looks like all the motherboards are bad.
This keeps me busy when I can't work in the shop, and helps others,
at the same time. I have offered the working Win 95 computers to a
local day care center. They will be used in their classrooms with
educational software. No network and no modems. I probably have a
dozen Packard Bell towers in storage, and i'd rather give them away,
than to scrap them for hardware. The cases and motherboards are
proprietary, and the hard drives are too small to be useful
Michael A. Terrell
> Mike:
> Thank you for helping our Veterans.
> Millwright Ron
> Vietnam
> 68,69,70
You're welcome.
Michael A. Terrell
Win 98 SE to XP.
Louis Ohland
across old IBM systems that you might try to bring up, do tell.
Hawke
> Millwright Ron wrote:
>
> >
> > Michael A. Terrell
> > AKA the TV repairman....
> > Are you still scaming Combat wounded Veterans sellong them worn out
> > computers.
> > I heard that you got black listed a the V.A. hospital
>
>
> More proof that belonging to a union destroys your mind. It's really
> sad. Not only are your lies extremely lame, you have a poor grasp of
> the English language.
>
> BTW, I am working on becoming a non profit corporation, which means
> that every detail of the project will be in the public record. That is
> something a union will never do.
Ha, Ha, he's working on becoming a non profit. That's all he'll every be,
non profit. Run along you stupid crip and leave the grown ups alone.
Hawke
Hawke
"Tom Gardner" <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote in message
news:Zfvsj.8242$0o7....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.net...
>
> "Hawke" <desmi...@dslextreme.com> wrote in message
> news:13r4qaf...@corp.supernews.com...
> >
> > "Tom Gardner" <tom(spamless)@ohiobrush.com> wrote in message
> > news:Mnmsj.7088$R84....@newssvr25.news.prodigy.net...
> >>
> >> "azotic" <azo...@cox.net> wrote in message
> >> news:MPcsj.4470$H05...@newsfe06.phx...
> >> >
> >> > news:13r25f1...@corp.supernews.com...
> >> >
> >> >> Unions make companies cough up a share of the profits for
> >> >> the workers and that comes out of the pockets of shareholders and
> >> >> management.
> >> >
> >> > If workers want to share in the profits they can simply become
> > shareholders
> >> > themselves.
> >> >
> >> > Best Regards
> >> > Tom.
> >>
> >> Drum roll please!
> >
After
> > all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services that
> > creates the profits to begin with. We all know it's not the owners and
> > management who actually produce anything. Workers should profit from
what
> > they contribute to the success of the business and without them there is
no
> > business. The Hollywood producers just found that out. No writers, no
makie
> > money. No workers, no makie money. Owners just don't want to be fair
they
> > want the workers to do all the work and give them nothing so they can
keep
> > all the profits for themselves. That isn't exactly a secret. It's been
going
> > on for centuries.
> >
> >
> >
>
> What's preventing anyone from opening their own enterprise or buying stock
in
> one? Workers are entitled to a paycheck for their time...nothing more.
They
> don't like it, there's the door, they are free to go find a job that pays
more.
> Unions are extortion organizations, nothing more. Workers have no
investment at
> risk, no responsibility for company obligations yet you say they are
entitled to
> profits over and above what is contracted for? Go check the pressure on
your
> home's tires, clueless, socialist DICK!!!
Karnac listens to Tom and knows, Tom is an old white man. You ask, how does
the great Karnac know this. Because only old white men hold such old
fashioned and archaic views. This is what businessmen in 1920 thought. Tom
thinks just like them. He has to be old. If not in body then he sure is in
mind. The 21st century isn't for him. He's thinking is 100 years behind the
times. Which is only one of the reasons why he such a horse's ass.
Hawke
Hawke
"Gunner Asch" <gun...@NOSPAM.earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:hn4sq3hnaq024bqsf...@4ax.com...
> On Wed, 13 Feb 2008 03:27:33 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Hawke wrote:
> >>
> >> Why should they have to become shareholders to share in the profits?
After
> >> all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services
that
> >> creates the profits to begin with. We all know it's not the owners and
> >> management who actually produce anything. Workers should profit from
what
> >> they contribute to the success of the business and without them there
is no
> >> business. The Hollywood producers just found that out. No writers, no
makie
> >> money. No workers, no makie money. Owners just don't want to be fair
they
> >> want the workers to do all the work and give them nothing so they can
keep
> >> all the profits for themselves. That isn't exactly a secret. It's been
going
> >> on for centuries.
> >
> >
> >building the business, unless it is employee owned. They get what they
> >deserve. No more and no less. Not one of them would take those risks,
> >or they would own a business, not work for it.
>
>
> The workers perform a service, for which they are renumerated at a
> mutally agreed upon rate. They provide a service for which someone
> else is willing to pay a certain amount.
>
> The Parakeet and the other closet socialists like Millwrong Ron
> believe that if you pay to get your carpets cleaned, the carpet
> cleaning company now deserves a financial interest in your house.
Fraid not blockhead! But thanks for demonstrating your profound lack of
understanding of profit sharing and cooperative ventures. 19th century
business point of view is what you are spewing. Modern businesses share
profits with the workers. They pay fair wages and provide good working
conditions so the workers don't even feel the need to form a union in the
first place. The idea that labor can be used like an old rag and thrown away
isn't long for this world. Yes they still think like that in China and other
backward areas but eventually they will come around. All you have to do is
look at professional basketball and you can see what sharing the wealth is
about. Before the players union the owners said exactly what you right wing
goof balls are saying. They were paying the players a salary and they didn't
deserve anything else. Now the union says we want half the money or we don't
play. Well, now they get half the money and the owners still make money and
so do the players. Why you idiots don't understand how this works is hard to
comprehend. You're dummies is about all I can think of.
Hawke
Hawke
"Lew Hartswick" <lhart...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:13r5s6p...@corp.supernews.com...
> Hawke wrote:
> > After
> > all it's the workers who make the products and provide the services that
> > creates the profits to begin with.
>
> work if the investors hadent put up the money to start the place.
>
> > Hawke
>
> ...lew...
Not any more than the fact that there wouldn't be any good or service to
profit from if the workers didn't work.
Hawke
Hawke
"Greg O" <goo19...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Q3Lsj.162165$9w2.1...@fe12.news.easynews.com...
Who gets better pay and benefits the union or the non union guys?
Hawke
Hawke
And how about asking him how many times the income of his highest paid
worker he makes? As much as he complains about how tough it is for him I
doubt he'd trade places with any of his employees. My dad was the same way
in his business. He bitched and whined about how little he made and how much
the government took from him but he sure made a lot more than anyone that
worked for him.
Hawke
SteveB
Holy crap, man. Do you know how much some of those 501 C3 NPO officials
knock down in salaries. Perks. Lunches. Speaking engagements. Free trips
to "seminars", usually on golf courses. Dinners. Consultations. Limos.
Custom designer clothing with logos of the events. Some of that nonprofit
crap is lucrative, and there's no tax accountability at the end of the year.
Smart like a fox.
Steve
cavalamb himself
>>***********************************
>>Mike:
>> Thank you for helping our Veterans.
>>Millwright Ron
>>Vietnam
>>68,69,70
>
>
>
> You're welcome.
>
I did this for several years - back in the Win95-98 era.
It was really satisfying to help other vets get up and running
and connected via email.
Keep on, Michael.
It's good work.
Richard
Michael A. Terrell
>
> And how about asking him how many times the income of his highest paid
> worker he makes? As much as he complains about how tough it is for him I
> doubt he'd trade places with any of his employees. My dad was the same way
> in his business. He bitched and whined about how little he made and how much
> the government took from him but he sure made a lot more than anyone that
> worked for him.
Hawkie, you're are as clueless as ever. I made more than the union
workers at C.E., because all the union jobs were grunt work. When a
contract ran out, the employees had to interview for the next contract
that was awarded to the company. If there was a gap, they were
unemployed. The QA people could be moved from one project to another,
because it was a management level job, and non-union. I am now 100%
disabled, and have no employees. The US government has declared that I
will never be able to work again.
Now, tell us all. Could you be any more of a loser? Have you ever had
a job, and what kind of work was it?
Michael A. Terrell
Thanks. It's better than staring out the window all day, too. :)
Especially, for me, because I'm generally a night owl. ;-)
Michael A. Terrell
>
> Holy crap, man. Do you know how much some of those 501 C3 NPO officials
> knock down in salaries. Perks. Lunches. Speaking engagements. Free trips
> to "seminars", usually on golf courses. Dinners. Consultations. Limos.
> Custom designer clothing with logos of the events. Some of that nonprofit
> crap is lucrative, and there's no tax accountability at the end of the year.
>
> Smart like a fox.
Then there are non profit corporations that can barely pay the light
bill, and no one gets paid. Like most of the local non profit Veteran's
groups. Any money left over after expenses goes to support Veteran's
retirement homes, and to provide scholarships to low income families to
give their kids a chance to go to college.
Michael A. Terrell
You just can't keep your lies straight, can you?
Michael A. Terrell
In which case you lazy, greedy, ignorant bastards would starve to
death while demanding your share of someone else's hard earned food.
Greg O
For us journeymen, that have been around for a few years, it is a wash. We
ran the numbers a year ago and I think the union guys made maybe ~$0.25 an
hour more. Not sure of the lower pay scales. One thing is they just signed a
new contract so their wages are set for the next 4(?) years, where I am due
a raise and usually get a dollar bump so I will be ~$0.75 over the union
guys when it happens. In the long run it is so close it is not worth
comparing, on reason why our non-union guys don't see any reason to go. Plus
the fact the rest of the shop would be a different union, (plumbers, versus
sheet metal, similar pay scale), and that union's retirement fund is
insolvent! The feds just stepped in and REDUCED the benefit to retiree's,
and increased the amount the employer pays in to try save it! None of the
local non-union shops are going to the union, in fact 1 or 2 shops have
dropped the union, and a couple other shops are thinking of dropping the
union too.
Greg
Gunner Asch
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Hawke wrote:
>>
>> And how about asking him how many times the income of his highest paid
>> worker he makes? As much as he complains about how tough it is for him I
>> doubt he'd trade places with any of his employees. My dad was the same way
>> in his business. He bitched and whined about how little he made and how much
>> the government took from him but he sure made a lot more than anyone that
>> worked for him.
>
>
> Hawkie, you're are as clueless as ever. I made more than the union
>workers at C.E., because all the union jobs were grunt work. When a
>contract ran out, the employees had to interview for the next contract
>that was awarded to the company. If there was a gap, they were
>unemployed. The QA people could be moved from one project to another,
>because it was a management level job, and non-union. I am now 100%
>disabled, and have no employees. The US government has declared that I
>will never be able to work again.
>
>
> Now, tell us all. Could you be any more of a loser? Have you ever had
>a job, and what kind of work was it?
Spitoon cleaner in a dockside whore house?
Gunner
"Pax Americana is a philosophy. Hardly an empire.
Making sure other people play nice and dont kill each other (and us)
off in job lots is hardly empire building, particularly when you give
them self determination under "play nice" rules.
Think of it as having your older brother knock the shit out of you
for torturing the cat." Gunner
William Wixon
>>
>>
>> Who gets better pay and benefits the union or the non union guys?
>>
>> Hawke
>>
>>
>
> For us journeymen, that have been around for a few years, it is a wash. We
> ran the numbers a year ago and I think the union guys made maybe ~$0.25 an
> hour more. Not sure of the lower pay scales. One thing is they just signed
> a new contract so their wages are set for the next 4(?) years, where I am
> due a raise and usually get a dollar bump so I will be ~$0.75 over the
> union guys when it happens. In the long run it is so close it is not worth
> comparing, on reason why our non-union guys don't see any reason to go.
> Plus the fact the rest of the shop would be a different union, (plumbers,
> versus sheet metal, similar pay scale), and that union's retirement fund
> is insolvent! The feds just stepped in and REDUCED the benefit to
> retiree's, and increased the amount the employer pays in to try save it!
> None of the local non-union shops are going to the union, in fact 1 or 2
> shops have dropped the union, and a couple other shops are thinking of
> dropping the union too.
> Greg
in a previous discussion on this topic someone said non-union people are
profiting from the past (not insubstantial) sacrifices of previous union
members. what do you suppose your pay would be if the union wasn't there or
if there never was a union?
b.w.
Greg O
news:lontj.4214$Sa1....@news02.roc.ny...
>
>
> in a previous discussion on this topic someone said non-union people are
> profiting from the past (not insubstantial) sacrifices of previous union
> members. what do you suppose your pay would be if the union wasn't there
> or if there never was a union?
>
> b.w.
>
I don't think the union effects our wages at all. There is very little power
in the union in this area. What affects our wages in this area in supply and
demand. We have a big problem hiring good people, and when we find one, we
like to keep them! We are continually hiring looking for good workers.
I get job offers from other companies very often. Some offer more money than
I make with this company, but I like it here so I am no hurry to go. I am
lead service tech and get to pick and choose my work, plus company truck,
company cell phone, come and go when I want, (to a point), so life is pretty
comfy right here.
Greg
William Wixon
huh. i thought you were going to say "there's no way to tell for sure", or
something along those lines. "we'd have to replay all of modern history to
see whether or not unions raised the wages of all americans" etc. or
something like that, and to see if non-union people have benefited from the
substantial sacrifices union workers/organizers have made throughout
history.
b.w.
Greg O
"William Wixon" <wwi...@frontiernet.net> wrote in message
news:vDptj.4262$7d1....@news01.roc.ny...
Sorry! ;-)
Greg
Michael A. Terrell
>
> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:28:30 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> >Hawke wrote:
> >>
> >> And how about asking him how many times the income of his highest paid
> >> worker he makes? As much as he complains about how tough it is for him I
> >> doubt he'd trade places with any of his employees. My dad was the same way
> >> in his business. He bitched and whined about how little he made and how much
> >> the government took from him but he sure made a lot more than anyone that
> >> worked for him.
> >
> >
> > Hawkie, you're are as clueless as ever. I made more than the union
> >workers at C.E., because all the union jobs were grunt work. When a
> >contract ran out, the employees had to interview for the next contract
> >that was awarded to the company. If there was a gap, they were
> >unemployed. The QA people could be moved from one project to another,
> >because it was a management level job, and non-union. I am now 100%
> >disabled, and have no employees. The US government has declared that I
> >will never be able to work again.
> >
> >
> > Now, tell us all. Could you be any more of a loser? Have you ever had
> >a job, and what kind of work was it?
>
> Spitoon cleaner in a dockside whore house?
Spitoon in a dockside whore house.
Gunner Asch
<mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Gunner Asch wrote:
>>
>> On Fri, 15 Feb 2008 10:28:30 -0500, "Michael A. Terrell"
>> <mike.t...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>>
>> >Hawke wrote:
>> >>
>> >> And how about asking him how many times the income of his highest paid
>> >> worker he makes? As much as he complains about how tough it is for him I
>> >> doubt he'd trade places with any of his employees. My dad was the same way
>> >> in his business. He bitched and whined about how little he made and how much
>> >> the government took from him but he sure made a lot more than anyone that
>> >> worked for him.
>> >
>> >
>> > Hawkie, you're are as clueless as ever. I made more than the union
>> >workers at C.E., because all the union jobs were grunt work. When a
>> >contract ran out, the employees had to interview for the next contract
>> >that was awarded to the company. If there was a gap, they were
>> >unemployed. The QA people could be moved from one project to another,
>> >because it was a management level job, and non-union. I am now 100%
>> >disabled, and have no employees. The US government has declared that I
>> >will never be able to work again.
>> >
>> >
>> > Now, tell us all. Could you be any more of a loser? Have you ever had
>> >a job, and what kind of work was it?
>>
>> Spitoon cleaner in a dockside whore house?
>
>
> Spitoon in a dockside whore house.
LOL!
Michael A. Terrell
Sloman was rejected for that job, too. He was under qualified.