What's your favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
spaco
general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
that a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.
That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
man and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.
So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:
http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html
Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
Sockets".
Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?
And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
Pete Stanaitis
Steve B
"spaco" <sp...@baldwin-telecom.net> wrote in message
news:YeKdnQRaxYp1ZLHW...@bright.net...
PB Blaster. If that don't work, go to plan B. Let it sit for 24 hours, and
apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.
Steve
Pete C.
Kroil, soak time and heat.
Bill Noble
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4b2d030a$0$31977$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
I'd second above - apply and let soak, repeat for several days, wiggling
bolts each time - brush away loose rust, etc each time.
Bill McKee
"Bill Noble" <nob...@nowhere.invalid> wrote in message
news:hgjah6$h9n$1...@news.eternal-september.org...
Plus then an Impact Driver. I like to shim it enough that the blow also
hits the head of the bolt down, just not in a twisting motion.
Buerste
"Pete C." <aux3....@snet.net> wrote in message
news:4b2d030a$0$31977$ec3e...@unlimited.usenetmonster.com...
>
I used to buy Kroil in 15 gal drums to use as a wire lube. It would creep
into 3" dia bundles of cut steel wire very quickly. If left alone, it would
evaporate and leave the perfect surface finish to make it flow into the wire
brush machines. If we didn't let it dry due to time constraints we would
work corn starch into the bundles. I convinced the wire mills to use Kroil
in their drawing processes and after tempering so my wire and all the mills'
output is pre-Kroiled. Kano should send me a BIG check, these guys use
truck loads of Kroil.
So, we always had plenty of Kroil around for stuck fasteners. A hot
fastener and Kroil has yet to fail to come apart.
Wes
>And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
Left hand twist drills.
Followed by easy out.
If possible to accurately locate hole, run a two flute endmill sized near the tap drill
for the thread down the center of hole and pick out the threads.
Or in combination of all three.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Wild_Bill
sockets need a little room (laterally) to bite into the fastener for a good
grip.
They proved to be very useful for removing rusted brake line nuts after
cutting the lines away from the line nuts.
The most important aspect of the sockets is likely to be the quality of the
steel that they're made with.
It's probably likely that some users pound the sockets onto the fastener
with a hammer, and use them with impact wrenches.
Another rusted fastener method is heating the fastener, and applying candle
wax. Since paraffin is a product that's commonly found in many lubricants,
the paraffin is beneficial when it reaches the threads.
It may be worthwhile to mention thread treatment compounds to be applied to
fasteners when assembling fasteners, to prevent future rusted/seized and
broken fasteners.
--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html
"spaco" <sp...@baldwin-telecom.net> wrote in message
news:YeKdnQRaxYp1ZLHW...@bright.net...
cl...@snyder.on.ca
Smack it lightly on the head with a light hammer every couple hours
when soaking. Breaks up the rust crystals and gets the penetrant down
where it does some good.
In steel I like to just heat the bolt red hot, and then quench it a
couple times, then heat and let cool while melting a wax candle on
it.Tapping it with a hammer a few times helps at this point.
Usually brings them out . If all else fails, use the "blue point stud
extractor" very carefully to burn the bolt out of the hole.
ATP*
"Wild_Bill" <wb_wi...@XSPAMyahoo.com> wrote in message
news:YeaXm.199285$mn3.1...@en-nntp-03.dc1.easynews.com...
> The bolt extractor sockets work fairly well for hex-shaped fasteners. The
> sockets need a little room (laterally) to bite into the fastener for a
> good grip.
> They proved to be very useful for removing rusted brake line nuts after
> cutting the lines away from the line nuts.
>
> The most important aspect of the sockets is likely to be the quality of
> the steel that they're made with.
> It's probably likely that some users pound the sockets onto the fastener
> with a hammer, and use them with impact wrenches.
>
> Another rusted fastener method is heating the fastener, and applying
> candle wax. Since paraffin is a product that's commonly found in many
> lubricants, the paraffin is beneficial when it reaches the threads.
>
point.
Denis G.
Tighten and loosen and apply penetrant-type lubricant. Work it back
and forth and gradually back it out.
Steve W.
I start with a good fitting tool appropriate to the fastener.
Then first try is with some PBlaster.
If nothing then I use a punch the size of the bolt shank centered on the
head to shock straight down through the shank.
Then I apply some heat and stick a cheap candle at the joint. This
usually will wick down through the threads and help.
If none of the above work and the shank will be above the surface once
the parts are separated I will grind the head flat. Then drill through
the head and take it apart. Then remove the rest using HEAT to the shank.
Usually some lube and a couple hits breaks them free.
In the event its a steel item in aluminum I'll use some alum and soak it
to eat out the steel.
I have a couple complete sets of the Irwin Bolt-Out sockets. One of the
best tools I have for a specific use.
--
Steve W.
Wes
>spaco <sp...@baldwin-telecom.net> wrote:
>
>>And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
>
>Left hand twist drills.
>
>Followed by easy out.
>
>If possible to accurately locate hole, run a two flute endmill sized near the tap drill
>for the thread down the center of hole and pick out the threads.
>
>Or in combination of all three.
>
Oops. Read that as broken bolt. Save mine for after you bust the head off ;)
spaco
Just came in from shearing off 2 6-32 machine screw heads with a Cape
chisel to get to a defective circuit breaker. When I got the cirucit
breaker out, I had a good bit of shank sticking out, but when I turned
them with a my favorite little gripping pliers (like tiny water pump
pliers), the brass insert turned in the plastic body. It was already
bad, so I am replacing it anyway.
I wonder, do they teach this stuff in tech schools?
Pete Stanaitis
-----------------
Joseph Gwinn
"ATP*" <waxwin...@azurepane.com> wrote:
I recall that wax dissolves in naptha, so one dodge would be to dissolve
wax in naptha and apply that the the stuck bolt, the theory being that
the naptha will carry the wax into every nook and cranny. I'll try this
next time the issue comes up.
Joe Gwinn
Doug White
news:joegwinn-37FF17...@news.giganews.com:
Just buy some Kroil & be done with it. If it won't come loose with
Kroil, it's REALLY stuck.
Doug White
Grumpy
I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well. I have a
1900's steam pump restoration comming up shortly and I will need all the
help I can get. It's been sitting in th shop now for about 6 months and I
give all the threads a squirt of Lanoliptus whenever I think of it.
(Lanoliptus is a mixture of eucalyptus and lanolin in a pressure pack) I'm
expecting that at minimum, a lot of heat and bad language will be required
to get any of those rusty old bolts out. I'll be using all the hints from
the website as well
<cl...@snyder.on.ca> wrote in message
news:6pdqi59r0ol62clmk...@4ax.com...
Steve B
"Grumpy" <tomi...@melbpc.org.au> wrote in message
news:Ftedndlgh8FAXbDW...@westnet.com.au...
>
>
> I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
> thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in
> Australia.
Ask around at your fixit shops or parts supplier. I'm sure they have an
equivalent.
Steve
Larry Jaques
<bmckee...@ix.netcom.com> scrawled the following:
Yeah, impact driver to start with, plus Loosener's Castor Oil Flakes
and soak time.
--
This episode raises disturbing questions about scientific standards,
at least in highly political areas such as global warming. Still,
it's remarkable to see how quickly corrective information can now
spread. After years of ignored freedom-of-information requests and
stonewalling, all it took was disclosure to change the debate. Even
the most influential scientists must prove their case in the court
of public opinion�a court that, thanks to the Web, is one where
eventually all views get a hearing. --Gordon Crovitz, WSJ 12/9/09
F. George McDuffee
<tomi...@melbpc.org.au> wrote:
> I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
>thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
>What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
>transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well. I have a
>1900's steam pump restoration comming up shortly and I will need all the
>help I can get. It's been sitting in th shop now for about 6 months and I
>give all the threads a squirt of Lanoliptus whenever I think of it.
>(Lanoliptus is a mixture of eucalyptus and lanolin in a pressure pack) I'm
>expecting that at minimum, a lot of heat and bad language will be required
>to get any of those rusty old bolts out. I'll be using all the hints from
>the website as well
>
http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=428473
While described as bore cleaners, ed's red is also a very good
penetrating oil.
http://www.frfrogspad.com/homemade.htm
http://www.stangnet.com/mustang-forums/695270-penetrating-oil-test.html
Acetone/ATF seems to be the winner
http://www.vwwatercooled.org.au/newforum/upload/showthread.php?t=34427
Kroil website indicates Austrailian distribution
http://www.thomasnet.com/profile/874557/kano-laboratories-inc.html
Unka George (George McDuffee)
..............................
The past is a foreign country;
they do things differently there.
L. P. Hartley (1895-1972), British author.
The Go-Between, Prologue (1953).
Kevin(Bluey)
> I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
> thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
> What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
> transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well. I have a
> 1900's steam pump restoration comming up shortly and I will need all the
> help I can get. It's been sitting in th shop now for about 6 months and I
> give all the threads a squirt of Lanoliptus whenever I think of it.
> (Lanoliptus is a mixture of eucalyptus and lanolin in a pressure pack) I'm
> expecting that at minimum, a lot of heat and bad language will be required
> to get any of those rusty old bolts out. I'll be using all the hints from
> the website as well
>
>
>
My old time favourite is Penetrene , but it's near impossible to find
here in Oz now.
I still have a couple of litres left and I use it sparingly now.
--
Kevin (Bluey)
"I'm not young enough to know everything."
spaco
years ago and we used a lot of natural gas for the furnaces. Each
furnace's feeder pipe had a drip leg to catch condensation before the
gas went into the valves. These drip legs are even put on residential
furnaces, by the way. Anyhow, since we used a LOT of gas, each drip leg
had a drain cock and it was the job of the maintenance crew to empty
these drip legs on a regular basis. They saved that condensate and used
it as we use PB Blaster, etc. It smelled a lot like PB Blaster. They
swore by it.
Pete Stanaitis
----------------------------
Stormin Mormon
know if it worked any better or worse than other products.
Many folks says it does.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Buerste" <bue...@wowway.com> wrote in message
news:G7aXm.83899$We2....@newsfe09.iad...
Stormin Mormon
I've found that.....
* Impact wrench will remove bolts that a breaker bar shears
off. This, from experience replacing rear shocks, on a rusty
truck.
* Name brand Vise Grips will remove screws, etc, that Harbor
Freight brand locking pliers won't. Cause the HF pliers slip
off. No matter how tightly you crank em down.
* Heat and beat works on rusted on nuts. Heat em up with a
torch, and then hammer the flats of the nut.
* Penetrating oil and hammer sometimes will loosen nuts.
Like the one time I was trying to get a pitman arm off a
steering gear box.
* Propane torch (times two) and then breaker bar with
extender works on strut rod bushing nut, 1 1/8 inch socket
needed. This is before I got impact wrench. I figure the
impact wrench woulda worked fine.
* Pound a socket on, and then turn gently works on rusted
bolts, on differential cover.
* If a nut and bolt don't come apart with a pull on a
breaker bar, you need to heat and beat, or use the impact
wrench. If you keep cranking with the 25 inch breaker bar,
the bolt will snap. This on a friend's wife's Dodge minivan.
Taking the front wheel assembly apart for some reason I
can't remember. The nut didn't want to loosen. I had my Mapp
torch, but he didn't want to use heat. The bolt snapped, and
we had to go chase auto parts and try to find another one.
We didn't, and ended up using a common nut and bolt. Oh,
well. She junked the van shortly after that, and it didn't
matter.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"spaco" <sp...@baldwin-telecom.net> wrote in message
news:pJSdnbHI_M6WybDW...@bright.net...
Stormin Mormon
working. I wonder if you can melt some candle wax in a
double boiler. Squirt in a bunch of ronsonol, and stir it
up. After you turn off the stove, and take the mix outdoors,
I reccomend.
--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.
"Joseph Gwinn" <joeg...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:joegwinn-37FF17...@news.giganews.com...
Doug White
news:Ftedndlgh8FAXbDW...@westnet.com.au:
>
>
> I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
> thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in
> Australia. What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel
> and automatic transmission oil a few times and it seems to work
> reasonably well. I have a 1900's steam pump restoration comming up
> shortly and I will need all the help I can get. It's been sitting in
> th shop now for about 6 months and I give all the threads a squirt of
> Lanoliptus whenever I think of it. (Lanoliptus is a mixture of
> eucalyptus and lanolin in a pressure pack) I'm expecting that at
> minimum, a lot of heat and bad language will be required to get any of
> those rusty old bolts out. I'll be using all the hints from the
> website as well
According to this:
http://www.ssaa.org.au/stories/hints-tips-how-to-clean-a-firearm.html
you may be able to get Kroil from a shooting supply place. It's very
popular for cleaning bench rest rifles. They also mention Penetrene,
which is the local equivalent.
Or you can contact Kano Labs directly & see if they have a distributor in
Australia.
Doug White
Bob Engelhardt
> Ronsonol lighter fluid melts candle wax. ...
Lighter fluid is naphtha is benzine. Bob
Bruce L. Bergman
wrote:
>"Broken" bolt is fine for this thread. I have just about all of the above.
> Just came in from shearing off 2 6-32 machine screw heads with a Cape
>chisel to get to a defective circuit breaker. When I got the cirucit
>breaker out, I had a good bit of shank sticking out, but when I turned
>them with a my favorite little gripping pliers (like tiny water pump
>pliers), the brass insert turned in the plastic body. It was already
>bad, so I am replacing it anyway.
>
>I wonder, do they teach this stuff in tech schools?
They might still teach it in Oz, but in the USA industrial arts
training in primary schools has gone the way of the Dodo and the
Passenger Pigeon, thanks to the ubiquitious liability lawsuit.
The Boomer and Echo generations were about the end of real shop
classes - they were already severely watering them down as I went
through, and several machines had either been removed as UNSAFE! or
locked off and tagged 'For Instructor Use Only" - you could do the
setup but had to get your teacher to run the machine it for you... A
good friend that taught Electronics and Stage Craft had to teach
Sciences for the last few years before retirement, as all the Shops
programs had been shut down.
The school districts got tired of students finding the most
inventive ways to hurt themselves or prank another student (Iodine
Trinitride, or take another students electronics project and add a
large electrolytic capacitor straight across the120VAC line cord...)
but sometimes they underestimated the dangers and killed somebody.
Then the "grieving" parents would call a Shark in a 3-piece suit and
sue for everything they could get.
Burn a school district for several million bucks a few times, they
sell off all the lathes and welders and printing presses, and teach
something safe and benign like Art and Web Design.
You have to wait till you get into a College or Vocational/
Technical School environment to learn these things, because by then
you have reached the age of majority - and are expected to take
responsibility for your own safety related fsck-ups.
Unfortunately, by the time they can get the mechanical arts
education, most of those who would have been receptive 10 years ago
have atrophied into nice retail clerks and burger-flippers. Some
things you really have to start young to understand.
--<< Bruce >>--
cncmillgil
> general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
> As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
> that a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.
>
> That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
> man and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.
>
> So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:
>
> http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html
>
> Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
> generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
> bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
> In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
> Sockets".
> Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?
>
> And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
>
> Pete Stanaitis
Some of my favs for you web sight.
SHCS - head striped out- using flat drive punch, pean around the hex &
"re form" the hex. This also shocks the the bolt helping matters out.
Use NEW or reground hex key pounded into the peaned over head. If
that fails, drill out the hex head with a drill about the same size as
the hex. The head will fall off when reaching the bolt shank dia. Also
try using a metric size vs inch size hex keys.
FHS - head striped out- these always strip because the shallow socket
depth & the head is locked / wedged on the taper angle. Try beating
the hex over as above - but when head still strips(usually does), use
a SHARP center punch ( an old HSS reamer shank works great) Strike it
down to set the punch then walk the head around like unscrewing it.
Works every time.I showed this to the electronic guys, they loved it,
because they were drilling them out previously.
This center punch "walk around" technique will also work for broken
off bolt heads, just below the top surface.Saves on the E-Z out or
left hand drill routine about 50% of the time. The trick is a sharp
hardened punch & setting it as close to the threads without hitting
them.
--
~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~~o~~
Some people make things happen....
Some watch things happen...
While others complain it can't happen
~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~o~~~o~~
http://users.cin.net/~milgil/CNC_xmas.jpg
ª"˜¨¨¯¯¨¨˜"ª¤(¯`*•.¸(¯`*•.¸ Gil© ¸.•*´¯)¸.•*´¯)¤ª"˜¨¨¯¯¨¨˜"ª
David R.Birch
>
> Yeah, impact driver to start with, plus Loosener's Castor Oil Flakes
> and soak time.
"The All Weather Breakfast! Loosners's!"
David
Brian Lawson
>
>
> I have heard a couple of referances to "Kroil "& "PBlaster " in this
>thread, but to the ebst of my knowledge, neither are available in Australia.
>What are they made of? I've used a mixture of diesel fuel and automatic
>transmission oil a few times and it seems to work reasonably well.
SNIP
>
>
Hey Grumpy,
I have never seen Kroil here locally, but we can get PBblaster in a
spray-bomb. Big bucks.
Anyway, I was happy recently with a concoction noted here on RCM, a
50/50 mix of acetone and ATF. Worked for me on a 1/2" socket head cap
screw that was rusted in over it's 2" threaded length. Someone else
had actually broken the side out of the head in a previous attempt.
Soaked it for a couple of days in the mix, and used no heat.
I've made up a bottle full for future use, with a "mixture label" on
it so I won't forget.
Brian Lawson,
Bothwell, Ontario.
spaco
I learned several methods that I hadn't tried before.
One thing I could still use help with is actually getting the hole in
the exact center when drilling out a fastener. The @##$$$%^%^^^ bolt
never seems to be in a decent position to get straight at it. I center
punch as best I can, then drill undersize so I have room to correct, but
I'm never sure exactly where the center is until its pretty late in
the game. I sure wish that drill motors had X and Y levels on them!
I added your comments to the webpage that I put up yesterday or so,
http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html
Thanks again,
Pete Stanaitis
----------------
Erik
spaco <sp...@baldwin-telecom.net> wrote:
> Do you have natural gas in Australia? I worked in a heat treating plant
> years ago and we used a lot of natural gas for the furnaces. Each
> furnace's feeder pipe had a drip leg to catch condensation before the
> gas went into the valves. These drip legs are even put on residential
> furnaces, by the way. Anyhow, since we used a LOT of gas, each drip leg
> had a drain cock and it was the job of the maintenance crew to empty
> these drip legs on a regular basis. They saved that condensate and used
> it as we use PB Blaster, etc. It smelled a lot like PB Blaster. They
> swore by it.
>
> Pete Stanaitis
Way back when I was kid, a neighbor who was one of those old time, life
long 'real' mechanics of years past told me the original Liquid Wrench
was condensate drained from New York's gas street light plumbing system.
He said when it first hit the market it worked well enough, but reeked
bad enough to gag a buzzard on sight. Supposedly, it was some while
before they de-stenched to tolerable levels.
Also remember him saying it was a God send to steam locomotive and
marine techs.
Erik
Grumpy
Penetrene is as rare as rocking horse manure these days as well. I think
I'll try some of the ATF /varsol/ acetone mixtures and see what happens.
Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
"Kevin(Bluey)" <blu...@westnet.com.au> wrote in message
news:pd-dnfE23sKqv7PW...@westnet.com.au...
JR North
you don't really need it. Grind the broken fastener flush. The center
drill point isn't the apparent center of the fastener, but the center
of the major diameter of the threaded hole, apparent when you grind it
properly. Center punch by eye; a light one. Move the punch mark as req
to get it on center. For your 1/4" bolts, use 1/8"drill, drill just to
the flute edge, and visually check the index. If no, angle the drill
bit and adjust. When satisfied, drill all the way through the
fastener, on axis. Usually, there is some open space under it. Squirt
some penatrant in, and let it sit. I use the Snap-On straight flute
extractor set; excellent quality. But note: extractors are intended to
remove only fasteners broken off from vibration or over-torque. They
are NOT for removing seized, thread-welded fasteners. Tap the 1/8"
Snap-On extractor in about 1/4" . Apply only moderate torque. If the
extractor starts to twist, pull it out with Vise Grips, and drill the
fastener to the minor thread diameter. Chase the threads with a tap,
and on to the next one. If you break off an extractor, delete last
step....
JR
Dweller in the cellar
On Sun, 20 Dec 2009 22:17:09 -0600, spaco <sp...@baldwin-telecom.net>
wrote:
--------------------------------------------------------------
Home Page: http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
If you're not the lead dog, the view never changes
Doubt yourself, and the real world will eat you alive
The world doesn't revolve around you, it revolves around me
No skeletons in the closet; just decomposing corpses
--------------------------------------------------------------
Dependence is Vulnerability:
--------------------------------------------------------------
"Open the Pod Bay Doors please, Hal"
"I'm sorry, Dave, I'm afraid I can't do that.."
Kevin(Bluey)
> G'day Bluey
> Penetrene is as rare as rocking horse manure these days as well. I think
> I'll try some of the ATF /varsol/ acetone mixtures and see what happens.
> Thanks to everyone for their suggestions.
>
>
>
Seems Penetrene is still available here in Oz .
Idid aGoogle search ansd all I could find was a horse linament of the
same name .
Then I found this
http://www2.totalfasteners.com.au
They stock it in 500ml , 1 ltr bottles , 400ml aerosol and 5 liter cans
.,they even say they can supply 200litre drums.
spaco
to remove a broken one was such a negative thought. I see now when
using one is appropriate.
Pete Stanaitis
--------------------
Wild_Bill
the surrounding metal, one could make up a set of drill bushings on a lathe,
that would center a pilot drill.
The bushings should get the drill started in the center, but won't help a
lot with axial pitch.
Not so simple when the bolt breaks off flush, though.
Managing a Dremel-type tool can be easier than trying to use a moderately
large drill motor to get a center start on a broken fastener.
Having a magnetic base drill for steel/iron base material would definitely
be helpful with keeping the drill on the axial center.
Mag base drills are generally large and expensive, but the recent shop-built
magnetic chucks made with high strength hard drive magnets shows that it may
be possible to make a smaller version for pilot drilling broken fasteners.
Another tool that would help get a drill centered and keep the drill on the
axial center would be a Cole drill. The foot/base that comes with the Cole
allows for easy attachment to an adjacent fastener hole (head surface on a
vehicle engine block, for example).
Again, this example isn't very compact, but an inspired HSM could make some
brackets to support a spindle and chuck, that would hold a drill
perpendicular to a surface.
I remember seeing a drill motor with bubble vials on it a number of years
ago, I don't remember the brand, or how long ago it was.
--
WB
.........
metalworking projects
www.kwagmire.com/metal_proj.html
"spaco" <sp...@baldwin-telecom.net> wrote in message
news:zZ-dnXfzwr5da7PW...@bright.net...
Ecnerwal
double-stick tape (and shims if needed) to other drill motors.
A carbide burr in a dremel-type (die grinder for the well equipped
folks) tool is good for making a starting hole (and grinding out broken
drills/extractors/taps, if need be - though it goes faster if you don't
have to deal with those hard obstructions). Roto-zip tile cutters are a
convenient hardware store source for carbide burrs, and they side-cut
enough that you won't likely get that stuck if you manage to break it
off in the hole.
The "candle wax trick" was lauded at anther place I frequent dealing
with old machinery. I haven't tried it much yet. In thinking about it,
it also offers the ability to do something about fasteners you may not
plan to take out now, but which may not have been put in with anti-size
- fill 'em up with wax now, and at least they won't be full of water and
rusting (more) between now and when you get to them.
As for putting things back in, antiseize or loc-tite (depending on the
fastener) will pay large dividends the next time you need to take it
apart. Guy I sold my dead chevy to (for parts) was amazed when he took
the springs (I'd replaced a decade or so earlier) off, since I had put
them in with anti-sieze and silicone grease. Came right apart, no fuss.
--
Cats, coffee, chocolate...vices to live by
John Martin
That is truly a problem, especially if the screw is broken off right
at the surface. The threads make it awfully tough to tell where the
true center is. And even if you locate it exactly, it's not easy to
punch and start a drill there.
If the fastener is broken so that threads are showing above the hole
or in it, things are easier.
I made up some screws drilled in the lathe right down their centers.
If your screw is broken down in the hole, screw in one of your drilled
scrrews as a guide for your drill. If the screw is broken above the
surface, screw a long nut such as a coupling nut on it, then screw a
drilled screw into the coupling nut.
John Martin
Wes
>That is truly a problem, especially if the screw is broken off right
>at the surface. The threads make it awfully tough to tell where the
>true center is. And even if you locate it exactly, it's not easy to
>punch and start a drill there.
When you are lucky, you can look at other features and determine a bolt pattern, spacing
from another hole, measure the mating item, ect.
May designers that use dimensions like 1.37 burn in hell.
Wes
--
"Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Steve R.
"Erik" <sp...@this.com> wrote in message
news:spam-1C21E5.2...@news.dslextreme.com...
The old liquid wrench did work well! I used to use it in the 60s on my old
English cars, and my collection of vintage vehicles. When they changed the
formula it was no where near as good.
Steve R.
cncmillgil
> John Martin <jmartin...@aol.com> wrote:
> >That is truly a problem, especially if the screw is broken off right
> >at the surface. The threads make it awfully tough to tell where the
> >true center is. And even if you locate it exactly, it's not easy to
> >punch and start a drill there.
A semi flat surface is key. Using a ball type carb burr will get down
inside to take away the jagged broken off bolt end.
After lightly punching, use a stubby center drill to start a point.
Just like center punching, you can "walk" it around till it looks
good. A lot of imagination is required as stated because the thread
runs out on one side making the center visually look shifted.
>
> When you are lucky, you can look at other features and determine a bolt pattern, spacing
> from another hole, measure the mating item, ect.
Yep, but is it inch 3/8 or metric 10mm"? - 1/4" or 6mm? 5/16or 8mm?
1/2"or 12mm?
Thats my biggest problem.
Even comparing the pitch/dia. is a painstaking task since most bolts,
when measured, are slightly under from their nominal.
Some metric sizes have 3or4 pitchs! in each size, not even listed on
most drill/tap charts.
Dont even want to think about British Witworth - I feel sorry for you
MG owners.
>
> May designers that use dimensions like 1.37 burn in hell.
they are too lazy/forget to change their decimal place setting on the
CAD? Unless configured, most CAD systems default are 2plc- like
metric, or thinking 2place dec. will make it easier for the
machinist - according to the 2plc tolerance print spec.
IE: center punch & drill press?
>
> Wes
> --
> "Additionally as a security officer, I carry a gun to protect
> government officials but my life isn't worth protecting at home
> in their eyes." Dick Anthony Heller
Still gotta get that portable EDM attachment invented<g>
--
___ ___
/ /\ / /\
/ /__\ / /\/\
/__/ / ------------------------------------ /__/\/\/
\ \ / ------------------------------- \ \/\/
\__\/ \__\/
Gil©
Member of
==American Toolmakers==
using the "old world" ways
with yesterdays technology
building
Tomorrows Dreams
Gerald Miller
I buy PB Blaster at Walmart in Port Huron, MI $3.79/spray can.
Gerry :-)}
London, Canada
Michael Koblic
"Steve B" <desert...@fishmail.net> wrote in message
news:bnbvv6-...@news.infowest.com...> news:YeKdnQRaxYp1ZLHW...@bright.net...
>> The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
>> general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
>> As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining that
>> a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.
>>
>> That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern man
>> and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.
>>
>> So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:
>>
>> http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html
>>
>> Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
>> generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
>> bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
>> In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
>> Sockets".
>> Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?
>>
>> And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
>>
>> Pete Stanaitis
>
> and apply more than once if it looks like it evaporated off.
>
> Steve
>
post re: release agents:
http://www.ott-motorcycles.ca/index.php?topic=42258.0
3rd post down: The acetone+ATF mixture has everything beat including the
price.
--
Michael Koblic
Campbell River, BC
Larry Jaques
<mko...@uniserve.com> scrawled the following:
Try Ed's Red, Mikey. It's that and more.
http://www.handloads.com/articles/default.asp?id=9
--
"I believe that sex is one of the most beautiful, natural, wholesome things
that money can buy." --Tom Clancy
Artemus
> And, what is YOUR favorite "stuck bolt" removal process?
> Pete Stanaitis
A friend of mine is a pilot for the airlines and he tells me
"The aircraft mechanics have some stuff they call "Mouse milk" that they swear
by, but despite requests from me they have never gave me any, so I don't know
what it is."
I DAGS and the first hit was http://www.mousemilk.com/
Does anybody have any experience with this stuff?
Art
sta...@prolynx.com
> "Steve B" <deserttra...@fishmail.net> wrote in message
>
Last problem I had was removing a tapered round barrel from a 50-year-
old Marlin 39. Nothing worked, so was going to use Kroil. None to be
found in the house, I knew I had gotten some, though. So mixed up
acetone/ATF 50/50 and soaked the thing for 4 days or so, wasn't in a
hurry. Put the barrel vise back on, put it in the 20 ton press to
hold it, put the receiver vise on it with the filler and pads and
smacked it with the deadblow, came right off. Was 50 years worth of .
22 gunk in the square threads. Found the can of Kroil a couple of
days later.
My usual stuff is LPS 1, but it's getting pretty steep, last can I
bought was $12. I first used it on some rusty bumper bolts, the truck
had come from Wisconsin and had been in the salty slop there for
several years. I could chin myself on my breaker bar, even with a
cheater pipe. Shot the nuts and washers with LPS 1 and let it sit
overnight. It had spread into a ring on the other side of the bumper
about 4" in diameter. After that, the nuts came off like they were
new, just used the regular ratchet wrench. Has been my first choice
of penetrant since. Was out of it for the job above, though.
Usually a touch of a propane torch followed by a rap with a hammer and
a shot of LPS 1 gets things moving, repeated if needed.
Stan
cl...@snyder.on.ca
RBnDFW
> The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
> general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
> As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
> that a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.
>
> That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
> man and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.
>
> So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:
>
> http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html
>
> Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
> generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
> bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
> In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
> Sockets".
> Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?
>
>
> Pete Stanaitis
No one has mentioned my favorite for capscrews with twisted off heads.
If the stub is at all proud of the surfcae, set a new grade 8 nut over
it, start on the threads if any. Then MIG, TIG or braze the inside of
that nut onto the stubb. Presumably you have applied penetrant before
reaching this point. Let it cool (or wait a bit then hit it with some
ice or refrigerant spray). Remove with hand tools on the nut.
Paul Hovnanian P.E.
> The other day, a guy asked me how to remove stuck bolts. It was a
> general question; he didn't have a specific problem at that moment.
> As I started to answer him, I kept having to backtrack, explaining
> that a particular situation begets a particular range of solutions.
>
> That got me to thinking about how pervasive this problem is to modern
> man and how uncomfortable I am when I have to go about it.
>
> So, I put up a webpage that focuses on simply defining the problem:
>
> http://www.spaco.org/MachineShop/StuckFasteners.html
>
> Right now I am in the process of reviving an old Onan 6.5KW RV-style
> generator set and it has numerous stuck bolts. Some of them are steel
> bolts, about 1/4-20 in size, stuck into aluminum. There is lots of rust.
> In my googling around I have found references to "Bolt Extractor
> Sockets".
> Have any of you folks tried them and what have your experiences been?
Good. If its actually a problem of the bolt head getting rounded off by a
bad socket or wrench, they work great.
If the bolt is seized and the head got rounded off fighting with it, these
extractor sockets will just allow you to get a good grip on the bolt head
so you can snap it off. Methods for freeing the stuck threads must still be
employed to prevent this.
--
Paul Hovnanian pa...@hovnanian.com
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Have gnu, will travel.